Ashigaru Desktop with Jordan

Hello, and welcome back to Freedom Tech Friday, a live and interactive show taking place every Friday at 9AM eastern and 2PM UK time across the ungovernable network. Each week, we dig into the latest in FreedomTech, including Bitcoin, Monero, encrypted messengers, privacy tools, and everything in between.

Essentially, if there's a news item, tool, or topic that can help you take back some control in today's digital Panopticon, then we wanna talk about it. This show and the topics we cover are powered by freedom.tech, a daily news desk that uses AI to monitor hundreds of sources so we can continue to bring you the signal every single week.

My name's Q and A, and I'm head of customer experience at Foundation. And this week, I am down a friend, but we've got a suitable replacement in. As always, I'm joined by Max, head honcho of the Ungovernable Network. But Seth is out doing AI related antics shock horror.

This show is live and interactive. You can help steer the conversation by commenting live, asking questions, boosting the show, or just sharing it with your friends. We have a split tie at the top of last week's top booster for the last week's show with Max Hanale covering Dojo Bay.

First... Well, both of these guys sent in $10, both in XMR. First one is eight Mythrandeer. He said, thanks for making Monero boosters first class citizens on every show. Can I get an option to enter XMR amount in the value for value page? Well, Ape, yes, you can. I did it for you this morning. Thank you for your support.

And we also have Arrow who also sent $10 in XMR and said, I can use XMR too. Look at that. Dojo Bay is awesome. Well done. This is the type of resilience needed for these projects to survive.

It may be time for me to get back into the Whirlpool ecosystem, but that fee for mixing is honestly a big barrier. Maybe we can discuss that later on. But, Ape, Arrow, thank you very much for your support.

Without further ado, Max, how are doing, mate?

You tell me. Can you hear me? Am I coming through? Yes. We can hear you.

Well, Alice, it seems we both got autism, haven't we? Yeah. Well, that's good to know.

Sound board is working? So ladies and gentlemen, I gave Max a new toy last week, as you can tell, and and he finally got it working. So be prepared for some audible

comical interludes throughout all of the ungovernable shows, and let us know what you think about them because I'd imagine he's gonna be bomb bashing for for quite some time now while he's got his his new toy.

But... Yeah. Are you well, mate? I'm very well. I'm a happy boy. We got that working, and we've got our good friend on today showing some interesting stuff. So I'm a happy, happy man. Yeah. I I... I'm reluctant to call him a guest because he he is the the behind of the the entire network.

So he is mostly a huge part of the team, and he does make the occasional appearance because he he does more than just produce podcasts with us. Yes. He does. He's a... It's our friendly Canadian part of the of the network. It's Jordan. How are you, mate?

Not doing too bad. Nice to be here with you guys today. Well, we we appreciate you taking a little bit of time off work on your on your Friday morning to come and talk about some cool shit. So I'm I'm excited to dive in. And

have we got any any news or updates or anything like that? Any AOB before we we dive in? Obviously, Seth is not with us. He's at Presidio Bitcoin in in San Francisco,

an AI conference, which I'm not gonna lie, I know I poked a bit of fun at him in the intro, but I would quite like to be there. Sounds... You're a bit jealous. Yeah. I am. I'm not I'm not a bit jealous. I'm very jealous. So maybe we can... Maybe next week, he can come and do a bit of a show and tell and just relay

all of the the useful little tidbits that he had or that he's learned while he's there, and you can share it with the with the network. That would be good. I I heard a a scuffle while I was having audio issues between you guys. I didn't know if we... Do we have a technical issue before jumping on, or are we good?

A scuffle? What was the scuffle? Well, I could hear like, ah, fuck this this block or something, and then... Oh, well, yeah. Well, go on, Jordan. I'll let you explain. Yeah. So I... I'm just preparing a wallet to, like, you know, obviously, present some of the features in Ashigarh desktop. So I sent us some coin to the wallet.

But as per usual, like, the the timing is... It was, like, forty three minutes in a block that I've been, like, waiting for this, you know, next block to go through.

And, I I do have confirmation now that it did go through. So... I was just about to say, I I had Mempool space open while I was doing the intro, and I saw a block come through. Perfect timing.

Very nice. Good. No one would have known if I didn't bring it up. The men poor gods are obviously, watching the show as well. Yes. Absolutely. Alright. Well, as the show title suggests, we're we're here again. We're gonna talk about Ashigaru desktop, which is a project that Jordan has been painstakingly

working away on in the background. And we thought it was about due time that it got a bit more love. We have featured it. I should have looked up the show number, but it was quite a while ago now, and there's been some changes since.

But we we have a good problem here at the Ungovernmental Network, and that is that our listenership is growing. We have lots of new listeners, so I don't just wanna dive in and get straight into the nitty gritty. I wanna start at the beginning to bring all of these new listeners along on the journey with us. So, Jordan,

before we dive into what the what the Ashigarh desktop is and kind of all of the specific stuff that you've been building, let's just set the scene a bit, you know, at a high level. What what have we got? What's Ashigaru?

And then let's walk down the line and talk about Ashigaru Terminal, which is kind of the next chronological thing, and then that will lead us beautifully into what exactly you've been working on as well.

K. So, if, you know, people have been listening to the podcast for a long time, they'll know that, like, last year, Max and I did an episode when Ashigaru Terminal first came out. And, obviously, this was an extension of Ashigaru Wallet, which was, you know, obviously, a mobile wallet that was released,

in the wake of everything that happened with Samurai. Had the same kind of features, little bit, more polish, and everyone was asking when whirlpool when whirlpool. And so when this Ashigarou terminal thing dropped, we were kinda, like, on it right away, and we we did an episode late in the night... One night.

And the the terminal itself was, a pretty basic, TUI, I think it's called, terminal user interface. So a little bit different than, you know, doing command line kind of stuff. You can kind of navigate with, like, your curt... Like, I guess, your your arrows and, you know, use the enter button and and your keyboard.

So, like, for for myself, it it was completely functional. It made a lot of sense, and whatnot. But it seemed like, you know, from my talk with, like, you know, people in different group chats and and whatnot, that there was a little bit of a barrier from a user perspective.

And and that kinda got my mind thinking, like, oh, you know, maybe you can... With the advent of, like, you know, what we're able to do with AI, all I really need to do, I don't need to change anything underneath.

I I can just make a skin on top that is more user friendly and uses the mouse and, you know, you're able to click things and and navigate that way. So that kinda brings us, you know, over the last, like, six months of, like, me kinda, like, working on this. So Yeah. It, there is a big jump for people who are newer,

and there's only really one game in town when it comes to privacy, on Bitcoin. And so I think people who are newer and maybe they jump in and start listening to Ungovernable, and we're talking about post mix, and we're talking about, you know, how how to do your spends. And then it's like, yeah. Yeah. You just do it in a terminal.

I mean, I remember... Eve... Even now, I find it horrible using a terminal. I have to use it occasionally, and I fucking hate it. And, you know, I remember, like, early days setting these things up and just feeling quite overwhelmed. And if it wasn't for

being friendly with Q and others at the time, I probably would have just been like, fuck this. It's it's too much for me. And so that's why it's important to to to not this not just to be available for the the big brains, but also for the crayon eaters who want privacy.

I got a hot take. Go on. I think in today's AI economy, there's no excuse to to come out with a new product now without a proper graphical user interface. Anybody wanna I agree. Shoot me down?

Yeah. I agree. There'll be loads of people in in some of the groups that we're in that will be really fucking angry with that, and and they'll they'll be saying, yeah. If you can't be bothered to learn, you don't deserve to use the tools and blah blah blah blah. I agree with you, Keith.

Like, just throw this shit at an AI and make it look beautiful and available for more people, because the more people who use this stuff, the better for everyone. So... Yeah. Agree. What about you, you miserable Canadian? What do you think?

You know, Max Tannehill really loves his, TUI, so he's probably, you know, clenching his fists in the background right now. Yep. Good. Oh, yeah. But, you know, I tend to agree. You know, it's not a heavy lift, but I think there's also that aesthetic thing too. Right? Like,

with the AI, it tends to, you know, kinda project out, like, a similar looking kind of kind of vibe every time, like, you do, like, a graphical user interface. So True. Instead of everything true. Know? I just hope everything's, like, not vanilla. You know? Yeah.

But I'm sure it's not with what you've built. So I I do have some Go on. Go on. There. No. No problem. I

do hope that, like, you know, maybe there's, like, somebody that is in that kind of, like, profession that can kinda look at the project and and have some ideas on how they would kinda shape things. Like... Because it's just not the way that my brain thinks.

Like, for me, I just want, like, kind of everything that I want in front of me, and then, you know, I can make it happen. But,

there's definitely, like, functionality and whatnot and and a better way to present it, and I just... I can't see it right now. But... Yeah. So anyone out there, just, you know, hit me in the DMs and give me some suggestions.

I think you've done a pretty good job so far, mate, and we're gonna see that in a minute. But before we dive in... So you you talked about Ashikawa. You talked about the TUI. We've we've already established that I'm absolutely right, and there's no excuse for a TUI in in 2026.

So so you started. You thought I can do better. I I wanna make a graphical... A desktop app, a graphical user interface. So walk us through kind of what that was like, what the basic features, and just, yeah, take us down that timeline.

It was pretty... What did I use at first? I think I was using NanoGPT in OpenCode. So I was just pairing it to, like... I think it was GLM five point... Maybe 5.0 at that point. And I said, hey. Can you just, like, do this? Like, it was a pretty, like, dragging based, like, prompt.

And I just said that I would like a a skin on top of this thing. And it and it outputted it, like, pretty well. And then from there, then, you know, obviously, the cloud subscriptions kinda came in because I needed,

you know how it is, like, with, the free models and whatnot. Like, they're slower. You know, they give you, like, good good input and whatnot, but but, yeah, I just needed something more dedicated.

And then so, like, with Claude, it was just helping me out a lot more, like, you know, getting each piece kinda to evolve. And so, like, when the first release came out, like, one point zero point zero,

it was pretty standard. Like, it was, like, every single thing that the, you know, the terminal, the UI interface had, and not much else. You know, I added labeling, you know, which was obviously, you know, inherited from Sparrow. So that was pretty... That was an easy lift.

And... Yeah. So, like, that was that release. And so from that kind of progression on, it's been more like user input. So, you know, we have some, like, some testing chats in signal and whatnot, and and people give their suggestions like, oh, I would like this or I would like that.

And then, you know, so I created a tools, section. So not just settings, then there's tools. And so I've just kind of been adding to that over the last, three to four months. And, yeah, before I get too out of control here, in the advent of what happened with Coldcard,

I was like, oh, maybe I could do some, like, more stuff with, like, generating a passphrase. Because with Ashigaru, like, on mobile, if you're gonna create a new wallet, like, you're required to make a passphrase.

And so I thought, you know, obviously, that's enforced on Ashigaru desktop and Ashigaru terminal as well. But I remember when I first started out, and people are like, yeah. You need a passphrase. So I was like, okay. Yeah. I'll I'll do a passphrase.

But I thought of a passphrase as more of a a password. And so, you know, on those old wallets that, you know, I don't even use anymore, like, they were just, they're pretty basic. And then when you look into, like, the Electronic Frontier Foundation and, you know, what they consider a a good passphrase, it's, like, very more...

What what what would the word be? Extensive. And, you know, you say you're rolling dice, you're creating entropy, and all these things.

And... Yeah. So I I created this thing where you could do, like, dice rolls, and you can create your passphrase, and it kinda leads you through it. And it tells you, like, oh, like, you know, you need six words.

And so... Yeah. So just creating, like, better, like, basics for people to follow and so that they have a better experience. Nice. Yeah. Well, let's see it, man. Let's let's not imagine it. Bring it up and take us through the basic functionality.

Take... Well, take us wherever you want. Just give us the give us the guided tour. There's nobody better to to take us through this. Alright. K. So how do I do this queue? I just gotta share screen.

Got it.

Then I just wanna select

that guy.

K.

Can you guys see that?

Yeah. We got it. Great.

So I kinda have it on the wallet screen right now. So I've already kind of went into the wallet. As you can see, I have the 0.03 BTC here that we were waiting on this morning. And, yeah, it looks pretty standard. You know, people that are familiar with Spero, you know, I think we'll have an easy time, like, kinda, like, navigating.

Mhmm. Right? So you have export labels, import labels, view seed words. I'm not gonna click that right now. But, you know, if you do click that, you'll get, like, a... It'll prompt you for a password. I recommend anyone that, you know, uses this application, you know, put a password on the on the wallet.

So just to be clear, that's a password on the wallet when you log in. It's separate to your passphrase. I always used to get confused. It it just, like, locks the the database file. Right? So

it... It's complete. It doesn't, go across, like, you know, different applications that you, you know, import your wallet into. It's just strictly for this application. Yeah. So then we go to tools.

And and so this is what I created as well. It's a a guided tour. And so it kinda just, you know And so if you first install the this will just pop up for you right away, and it'll just, like, walk you through each of the steps.

So it explains to you, you know, like... Because the other thing that people have to consider is that, you know, most people are just familiar with, like, their deposit wallet, for instance.

But, you know, when you're using Whirlpool and whatnot, you have, like, these different accounts, which would be premix, postmix, and bad bank. So it's... I thought it'd be good to kind of, like, give those explainers, especially for newbies.

And... Yeah. So then you take the tour, and it kinda just starts pointing you to everything. You know? Like, these where your wallets are. It's how how you open the wallet, how you restore, you know, showing you where everything's connected, different accounts.

You know, obviously, I've been through this thing probably a thousand times. So so... Yeah. You you could use this as your your main desktop wallet, and then you can also do your mixes and everything from here all all from one place?

So what I actually like about, this application and what I've probably never... Well, not... I'll never say never. But there... There's no spend functionality in the wallet. So you can only receive in here, and and you can't spend. You could do mixed twos. Right? So, you know, if you open another wallet in the... In this application,

you could technically... I guess that would be a quote, unquote, like, spend. But Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What... What's the thinking what's the thinking there? Is that just for cleanliness? Like, what's the what's the what's the rationale?

Because... Yeah. Yeah. What's the rationale behind it? Well, the the way I think about it is that, you know... So you have, like, Max on last week, talking about Dojo Bay. Mhmm. And, you have Ashigaru Mobile.

And you have, like, what I consider, like, a suite of products that are kinda getting built out. Like, I got a couple other projects that, you know, that are kinda in, alpha phase right now.

But the... You have a suite of products, and I just... I think that the spending should be done on mobile, and I don't think it should be done on on the desktop per se. And, you know, if people do wanna spend on desktop, Spero

is a application that could be right alongside of it. And you have access to the same wallet files. Everything is, I would say, seamless when it comes to, you know, wallet importing with Sperrow. Like, everything will be familiar.

The labels go across us. Your my suggestion is of it. You know? You... Your suggestion is basically that because the Ashigaru on mobile is so good and the spending tools and everything are are baked in, that it would be better to do that or to do a mix two to Sparrow

and just lean on what's existing and what's there and what works rather than overcomplicate this. 100%. Okay. That makes sense. It reduces my my back surface. Yeah. And I think that's probably what the Ashigaru guys were thinking Mhmm. When they made the terminal

because it's the same thing in the terminal. Right? So I didn't change any of that. They didn't have spend. And Yeah. And then you gotta remember, like, on the mobile, you have, like, the post mix spend tools and whatnot. Right? So then I would have to integrate all that into here.

It could get a little dicey. And Yeah. So I kinda like where it's at right now. No. I agree. Now you say it makes sense, especially with, like, the the amount of attacks that are going on all over the place.

It's not a position you wanna wanna be in, and the the more I use Ashigaru on mobile, the more I fall in love with this. It's such a good experience. So, why why change that? And then, obviously, if you want the desktop, we've we've got Spharrow. So, yeah, I'm I'm on board with that, mate. Makes sense.

Yeah. I find, like... This is just an aside, but I I find that

there's so many projects that, you know, almost like reinvent the wheel or, like, just don't find a niche. Mhmm. Like, it doesn't it doesn't need to be like, oh, here's another Bitcoin wallet that, like, you know, does all these things.

You know? You can kinda just, like, almost, like, stay in your lane. You're like, I'm... This application is good for this, and then you can use that there. Like, I... Yeah. No It's part of a not saying we're looking for, like, the deal on that. Yeah.

It's it's like part of a toolkit, isn't it? There's like a Yeah. A little ecosystem being built out and, you know, you don't use the same tool for everything. So... But, yeah, I I get it, mate. And it is looking really slick.

I don't think it's, you know, from a design perspective, which is all I can really give anyone here, as you know. Technical side's fucking useless. But as a a design,

you know, the look is really, I think, in keeping with what Samurai built and what Ashigaru are building, and I don't think it looks same y or AI generated. I think it's very much in keeping. So, yeah. I I like it, man. I think it's really nice. It's got that that feel of cypherpunk

coolness without having to be inaccessible to Crayon eaters. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's it's the perfect balance between Spyro, which I think nailed doing a lot in a graphical user interface without be... It being overwhelming.

But with that beautiful little sprinkle of samurai design magic on top of it, I think it's... Looks great. Oh, thank you very much. I appreciate that, guys. Don't don't let anyone tell you you're a useless cunt, mate. Alright?

Don't let them say it. Yeah. Wait. Unless it's you, like, in my DMs. Wait. Do you wanna take it next week? We've got, the additional tools or a demo mix. I wanna cover both, so I'll let you lead with which one you wanna do first.

Yeah. For sure. Okay. So

I'll just get to the general here. Yeah. General server. K. So we're gonna go to tools here. So we have the verifier. So I'm just gonna go through that first. So when I have... When I do a release or something... I'll just, press skip on this now.

When I do a release, I sign with my BIP 40 7 code. And so I I sign the SHA to five six sums, and I... And then I paste that into the release so that you know that, like, you know, like, I signed this release off.

And so, you know, if you wanna verify it for yourself now with the updating and whatnot, it kind of verifies it all when you download the, new application. But, you know, so you'd kinda go in here. You use release signing code.

You could also do a lookup here. So, you know, I could enter in max, let's say, and I could go look up. And it'll look up max.

Right? And so it changes it. Right?

But here we go. Sorry. Look up.

Then what I would do is... Do I have it here? Open. Sorry, guys. Bear with me here.

The signed message

block, and then I verify the match.

So you know that, you know, I made a software. So that's just a heads up. Whirlpools. This is all pulled from the tour site for whirlpoolstats.xyz. And so you can kinda just, like, you know...

Thing. And then I have an extensive logs thing, and this this really helps me a lot, you know, when dealing with, like, bugs and and users and whatnot because they can just go to errors and tell me what their error is, and they can copy it.

They can tell me what their warnings are, and it's just, like, much more succinct. So, obviously, one of the things that we have a lot is, like, you know, the Whirlpool coordinator will be going down.

You know? I have, like, I have, like, different ways to mitigate that and to alert the user that it is down. Mhmm. But, like, sometimes, that'll lag a bit. So you can kinda, like, look in the logs and see, like, the last time that it was up or, you know, kinda just get a feel.

So...

Yeah. And then, obviously, when those logs, just another feature on the log. Sorry. And we'll we'll kinda get to the, the big stuff. When you copy those logs, I have it so that it, like, takes out any of your addresses or anything like that. So, like, when you send them to me,

none of that, private information is gonna be shown to me on my side. Oh, that's good. I'm just... Yeah. Yeah. So just something I kinda thought about because I was like, yeah. If somebody sends me their logs, it's... You know, every time you open

the open the wallet for mix, you know, divulges a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Nice little privacy feature. KYC is the dragon that man must slay. Sorry. I've got another Canadian behind me. Shut up, Jordan.

Yeah. Good old JP. Yeah. And then just... I I won't go into it too much, but just to relay back to Dojo Bay, you could discover Dojo Electrum servers using the Dojo Bay connecting to the reference instance, over Tor.

So, you know, if you want a a bigger selection of servers and you don't have your own and you're not running your own private Electrum, right, you have access to all those other trusted ones.

So... Yeah.

K. So

when you go into deposit wallet... Yeah. Before you before you get... You dive in, let... Let's assume that there's some absolute newbies watching this. Let's... Don't assume that everybody knows what's going on. So start from step zero. So you've you've deposited some funds, and let's go from there.

K. So I've deposited some funds, and I guess I would I would like to mix this UTXO. Think... And, you know, other people's wallets, like, obviously, there'll be another number of them where... I'm gonna I'm gonna dive in and ask a load of newbie questions along the way intentionally.

Can I can I send any amount in here?

Yeah. You can send any amount into your deposit. Yeah. So I can mix, like, 5,000 sats? Oh, no. Okay. So you're talking about... Yeah. So, there's two pools, but you'll be also alerted, when you go and mix because you won't have enough.

Okay. Good. So... And that was also in the terminal as well. So you you can't... It'll tell you if you're underneath the threshold, essentially. But, yeah, that actually might be something that I should add.

Just letting the users know that, like, what pools exist. You know? Good idea. Because it's not so clear in in in the application itself. So... Yeah. Thank you, Q. So, essentially, you have a point zero, two five pool and a point two five pool, and, that's in BTC terms.

And so what I would be mixing to you today would be the point zero two five pool.

So you need to send kind of that amount plus a little bit extra for... To cover off fees, the the pool fee, the mining fees, and that sort of stuff. So roughly, like, the minimum you can deposit here and do anything useful with is what you've got on screen basis, like, no point no 3 BTC. Right? Yeah. I'm I'm hoping so. I forgot to...

But, yeah, we'll see it all right here right now.

So you can kinda see here. You have an anti SIBL p right here,

and then you have your pools. Right? So it doesn't even let me choose the other pool. So you because I don't it now. Pop out window because we're not seeing that. Oh, seriously? Yeah. Yeah. I do have a pop up window.

Don't know whether you can go to full screen share rather than just a window. Depends what else you've on screen and what you're comfortable with. Yes. I can do that. Yeah. Here. Give me one second here.

I'm just gonna stop sharing for a second. Yeah. Max, this is your opportunity to hit some buttons. Should I find it? Should I find a good one? Relax. Yeah. Yeah.

We should be good like this.

One sec. Let me bring it up. Okay, baby. Yep. Yep. We can see it. Continue. That's fine. K. So you see the f... You see the deposit here?

Yep. Yeah. Transaction zero? Great. So, do you have the pool? Obviously, like I said before, it won't even let you choose a pool because, you know, obviously, you don't have enough funds for the the higher pool. So you have your anti civil fee.

It's just kinda giving you a breakdown and, the total fees.

You have any more questions at this moment here, Q?

Anti civil fee, what does that mean? Anti civil fee is like... The idea behind it would be, like, you... That you can spam, spam the coordinator. And so they, you know, it's a civil defense. It's, I don't think it's an...

It pertains just strictly to, you know, Whirlpool itself. It's more of like a a general, computer thing. Mhmm. And where does that go? Who who collect my explanation. Pardon me? Where where does that civil fee go? Am I paying that to minus?

That will be, paid to Ashigaru. To to the entity running the the Whirlpool coordinator. Right? Entity running the coordinator. Yes. Cool. Okay.

Yeah. I'm out for now. Alright. Oh, I like that animation. Very nice. Yeah. Like, they they had in their

their list of, like, assets, you know, for for the project. Why not? So so what's happening right now then? You... You've broadcast the transaction. It says broadcasting premix. So what... What's going on under the hood here?

Where am I am I sending all my Bitcoin to to the Ashigaru team and hoping that they do send it back to me. No. Nope.

So what's happening is it's just gonna be... It shows up in premix here. I think I might have jumped the gun there. What I actually have happened is that after it's done, it it throws you to premix. I just preempted it.

And and premix is still my own wallet. Right? Premix is still your own wallet. As you could see, it's, one of your accounts. Right? So it's right there. That mix is right there. Right? So...

And then, obviously, the fees went... The anti civil fee went to the, you know, the coordinator's wallet,

and mining fees went to the... Yeah. And so what I have happened, right, is that when, you do the mix, it throws the user right to the premix wallet so that they can see where it went right away. Because I know, like, obviously, you do the transaction. Right? And then all of a sudden, like, there's nothing in in your deposit.

And you're like, what the heck? But, obviously, if you go to transactions here, you can kinda use the explorer, use the MI exposed, you know, to kinda see these things.

But, you know, some people, especially at this state or this point in time with Bitcoin and whatnot, people might panic.

Oh, yeah. There's a lot of fear out there. But but... Yeah. So, anyways, it kicks you right to premix, and then, premix, you're... Now you're just sitting there waiting for a mix. And probably not by the end of this episode, but... You know?

Because you'd have to... This has... The premix has to confirm, and then and then it can be staged for an actual mix with a bunch of partners. Right? So for somebody to do this, they would just get to this point and then wait and and basically just leave the the the application on their computer. Right?

Exactly. Yep. And so now you're just hanging out and, you know, just chilling. And how long is that... How long do they have to chill for? That's also, like, dependent. Right? So that just depends on entrants entering into the pool.

As as the new entrant, that I am right now, I just gotta wait for, four others to, to join me there. And do you have a rough... Like, what's the average by these days?

Like, on my other post mix wall, like, it was very, in our group chat, you know, the guys will always, like, you know, post the stickers and whatnot, like, remix. Remix. Mhmm. And so, I would say it's, like, actually quite frequent. So now you can see here, it's registering the input because I... I'm confirmed now.

So you see... You guys see that right here? Yep. Yep. I can see that. Awesome.

So what does that mean now? Your... The the the desktop application that we're looking at, basically, is kind of putting its hand up in the air, shouting at the coordinator saying, hey. I'm ready.

Pick me for a mix. Is that is that a fair 100%. Summarization? Yes. That is. Yeah. And so, like, people never knew, like, what kind of... Oh, look at this. Oh, boys. We're lucky today. There you go. We we get to watch the whole thing go through. This is this is karma for that forty five minute block earlier.

Exactly. So... Yeah.

Yeah. It's just confirming the input. And I and I have it, like, staged out because, like, people were always, like, wondering, like, oh, what what's happening? Like, I wanna know, you know, you know, what stage I'm at. So when it's, like, at 10% connecting, like, you kinda know that, like, coordinator's probably down

because you should always be at, like, 30%. Why is that?

Because you for, like, our... Like, the potential to remix. Patients on, you should just be new to come, or you can say, like, this is my UTXO. Like, let... Let's mix. Right? And because it's random in that way where it's just like, okay. Yeah. It's it's you this time.

It just kinda stays at 30%. But as we can see here, right, like, when you are a new entrant, right, it's like you're you're the new blood, so you're getting in there right away. So now you can see signed.

Yep. Go ahead. Oh, nice. Yeah. This is... So I I... I'm kinda jumping the gun a little bit, boss. You you were saying that, you know, you should always be... And and I just wanna kinda wanna e cash from you. Like, how do you get yourself in that position, like, as being one of the people that are waiting for the new blood to come in?

I I think you'll see that right after this gets signed and and done and and heads into post mix. I mean, I guess we'd have to wait for another confirmation. But... Yeah. So after each new blood has done one mix with any or all of their coins, it flows through to the next account in the list, basically. Is that right?

That is right. So then you would see everything, like, end up in your post mix here. I think Restream's doing a little thing with my buttons here and whatnot. But... So from a user perspective, let... Let's, like, assume we've... We're able to fast forward time ten, fifteen, twenty minutes, and and we can see some funds in post mix now.

What's next from a user perspective? Do they just do they just sit there? Are are the funds ready to spend? Are they now considered, air quotes, private? Like, walk us through that. Yeah. So, you know, there's obviously, like, different hygiene over there.

Dropped in. Look at this. This is going swimmingly. Yeah. This is going great. I'm very happy.

So there we go. Yeah. You have one mix, unconfirmed. And, you know, if we can get a confirmation, you know, relatively soon, you'll see that one mix there, that that candidate will come back up.

And sorry, Keith, before I get to, your last question there, I just wanna point out, like, if it doesn't happen, I've made it... So, like, a lot of times... So let's say you have, like, 10 UTXOs.

You'll notice that, like, because it's random, you... You'll have some that, like, one will be, like, 10 mixes, and the other one will be eight. And then there'll be, like, one down at the bottom that's just, like, one mix, and it just, like, never ends up being a candidate.

So I've made it that, like, if you do have that one mixer that you can, you know, check it off and mix that that one, and it'll push that up as, like, the registered input, like, for the next steps. To achieve that, basically, I assume you're basically taking all of the other ones,

their availability away so that you only have Yes. The selected ones left to be selected, I guess. So it'll it'll sit there. Right? It'll... And it'll be on the one that I selected. But, like, let's say the coordinator goes down, then it has to... It kind of, like, resets itself, and so it might select that 10, that 10 mixer again.

But, you know, in a perfect world, the coordinator's up all the time. But... Yeah. Nice. Okay. So some more newbie questions for you. We started off with 0.03 Bitcoin. You mentioned that there's, two different fees at the start, and what we can now see on screen is 0.025

Bitcoin, which has gone through or is about to be confirmed after its first mix. Have... So have I lost a full 0.005 BTC to fees, or is there some little bits left over in my wallet somewhere?

Yeah. And so, like, that's why I had... That's why I I thought the the guided tour was a nice way to go about it,

because what you end up having is called a bad bank. And so a lot of people call this, like, toxic change. I like the term bad bank better,

personally. But, as you can see here, I have, like, a little warning up here. Spending these UTXOs is not advised. Please consider mixing in a smaller pool or an atomic swap to XMR.

Can...

You can't you can't obviously put that into a mix because it's too small. So,

are there any atomic swap... XMR atomic swaps that we can recommend at the moment or not really? Well, you know, obviously, the the one that people would would be Yeah. I can't I can wallet.

But there's been some there.

And then as will be group chats. But but... Yes. That wouldn't... So let them... The idea would just be to swap to XMR or swap with... Yeah. I have an idea that I wanna run past you both.

So just to to recap for the newcomers. So this is, like, the the... What's left in the wallet that's not being mixed. It's not big enough to be... To go back in to be mixed on its own because it doesn't meet the minimum pool size.

So it's kind of like stranded, and it's it's... You know, the term bad bank comes from the fact that this is not mixed Bitcoin. So it's still easily identifiable as... Or with the Bitcoin that initially entered the mix. Right? So you're kind of left with what do I do with this? The guys are just talking about swapping it to XMR.

Good suggestion. What if you sent this Bitcoin to Cakewallet and then used Cakewallet's pay anything?

I forget the term that they have that feature now. But, basically, if you've got some Bitcoin or crypto in a wallet and you scan another Bitcoin or crypto QR code, it will just figure it out and do it for you. I'm assuming they have a swap service in the background that will facilitate that for you. What's your take?

I... My take is that is really a question for Seth because on the back end, they're gonna have a swap service, and I know that swap services and anything that touches anything that looks like a a mix is blocked.

So, I would probably not suggest that unless Seth says do it because what might happen is you might then go to do that swap and then the funds are held.

Jordan, any advances? I I would probably be in the same,

like, personal, like, dealing with, you know, anything on the Whirlpool side? Have you not? I've I've... Anything that's post mix at all that I touch that touches anything that has any sort of KYC is a fucking nightmare.

I think it's worth if Simon's speaking up a little bit, Max, because that that is... That that can be the elephant in the room here. Like, I love all this tech, but maybe, you know, dive in a little bit more as to what you've experienced. Obviously, you know, don't share anything that's gonna dock yourself. Well,

so so from my experience over the years, as someone who came in and very early on was like, shit. I shouldn't have bought from a KYC service. Here's the Samurai guys explaining how dangerous that can be, and they're absolutely right that tying your identity to Bitcoin is very dangerous

in in the physical world. You can be attacked. You can be attacked by all sorts of different entities, and you could pay your plumber to go and do some work for you, and then they can suddenly see if you haven't managed your UTXOs properly how much money you have or don't have, and they might come back and

crack your skull to take the rest. So there's there's a a big problem with tying your identity to Bitcoin. But if you then break those links using tools that actually work, like we're discussing today, if you then try and go back over to the KYC world, and by that, I mean, services, buying gift cards, trying to sell on an exchange,

Whatever the thing is where you're trying to interact with the Bitcoin world, which is attached to the traditional system in any way and banking and regulation and all of that disgusting stuff that's attached itself onto Bitcoin, my experience with having anything that's been through Whirlpool or any privacy...

Anything that I've used to try and gain privacy will get flagged, will get seized, and getting it back is a fucking nightmare because you've gotta show provenance, where'd you get the coins, proof of income, source of funds, where's blah blah blah blah. It it is not fun.

So my suggestion to people is you have two different two different ways of interacting with Bitcoin, and you have proper Bitcoin that's more private and like we're discussing today, and you use that peer to peer, and that's one thing. And then you have the white listed, like, KYC version

if you're gonna interact with KYC services because the the crossing of the two, even though it's dangerous and wrong that we have all of this regulation and bullshit on top, and it it... Like we discussed last week, it literally causes people death because they go and get attacked and kidnaps and everything else.

It is still a reality. So when I'm saying don't use toxic change or or post mix for these services, that's what I'm saying. Don't cause yourself a fucking headache. Keep these two things separate.

Thank you for that. Is that fair? Am I being Yeah. No. No. I I think it's fair, and you're you're definitely not the only person that I've heard have issues with this. But I've also heard, on the contrary, loads of people that I know use or or tell me that they use making...

I've heard that Yeah. I don't think it's black and white, but it is of... And I... I'm glad you brought it up. Jordan, what what else have you got for us?

Oh, yeah. So what I'd like to show you guys while we're waiting for that, PostMix to confirm... K. So you're making a new wallet. I just wanna show off the passphrase thing a little bit here.

So I'll go FTF3.

Oh, you know what? Oh, here. No. I'll do this. Sorry, guys. Make the hot wallet, 12 words.

Same thing. You you know, obviously, this is very, familiar. If if you use Sparrow, same idea. Right? So go here. And so when I have the passphrase prompt come up, right, I ask the user if they have dice.

And so if they say, no. I don't have dice, it'll be like, please get some dice. So if we go... Oh, yes. I have dice. Right? I have the word one through six. Right? So you'd roll these five dice.

And this is all based... So I've take all EFF word list, and it's in in the software. And so when you generate these words, right, it'll tell you the word, and then you keep adding the words as you dice roll.

That's cool. I like that. And and is this mandated, or can you skip this step? Although it... Albeit not advisable. Yeah. So if you want to skip a step in, like, let's say, you were, like, restoring your wallet or whatnot, you just say, like, no. I don't have dice, and you just do the thing. And you could make your own passphrase.

But you have to have a passphrase. You have to have a passphrase. Yeah. Okay. Yes. And I'm just doing that because I... I'm just maintaining, like, the seamlessness between, like, Ashigaru mobile and and desktop. Yep. Right? So if if they require a passphrase, you know, obviously, the, desktop software should.

And so, you know, you get your master fingerprint. You know? Write it down with the dashes. I have, like, all the warnings here. Mhmm. And then, and then you can create the wallet.

And then, obviously, like I said, password is optional, but, you know, if you're running this on your desktop, you you know, you probably wanna just have... It's nice to have, like, it for, you know, like, locking the wallet because then you can kinda walk away, lock the wallet.

Nice. So you can have multiple wallets, which is great. Yeah. Nice little drop down there. Yep. Can you have multiple wallets open and mixing at the same time? Yes. You can. Oh. I was expecting I do I do it myself. I Me too. Yeah.

Nice. So I have... Yeah. Like... And that's the way I like... You know, obviously, Max has been on it for at least a few weeks now in FTF. Like, talking about, like, hey. I don't want all my eggs in one basket and so on and so forth. You know? And so that would be one way.

That's a very, very nice way. That makes me very happy. Well done, mate. Alright. So some... We're we're down to, like, five minutes now before we need to close out. This has been wonderful so far, mate. I'm I'm I'm very happy with with how this looks and how it's gone. You've done a fantastic job. Some quick fire stuff.

I... I'm so glad you just clicked on post mix as well. Mix two. What's that? Oh, yeah. K. Perfect. I'm glad you did this. So mix two. I was just going through it with somebody else the other day. And so this is the idea that... K. So I have my, UTX owned post mix here. And let's say I don't want it to just, like,

stay in this wallet. Maybe I wanna mix it to my cold storage, you know, on on my foundation passport and... Passport prime. Sorry. And... Nice. And so what I would do is I would go mix two, and all it needs is like an XPUB or an, what we call an output descriptor.

And so what I would do is I would add that wallet into,

my list of wallets. So what I would do is I would go new. I would say foundation,

and then I'd make it a watch only. I have the output descriptor.... In in the desktop app. Right? Exactly. Exactly. And so I'm copying the output descriptor here.

And And I'm just gonna input it. A live feature ad. I don't... I might have missed it, so apologies if I did. But could we... If I was to get you an Ashigaru export function on Passport, could you add QR code scanning in here?

Oh, that'd be sick. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Nice. Let's do that. Down. Yeah. So I'm just gonna leave it optional. And, yeah. So now I have the foundation wallet in here for my output descriptor.

As you can see here,

we are now confirmed on the post mix. So everything is lining up perfectly for this show today, guys. This is so good. And now we have the register input like I was talking about. So it sits there at 30%, and every other step at... Every 10% after that is obviously, like, you're in the middle of, you know, a mix.

And right now, I'm just kinda waiting for for some new guys to show up. And that that step is kinda like an infinite process. Right? As long as the desktop app is running, it'll just sit there, and it'll just slowly start to rack up more and more mixes and kind of improved privacy. Yeah?

Exactly. Yep. Yep. And...

Yeah. Okay. So only question, Jordan. Yeah. When I go to mix two, right, now I have the foundation. Oh. Jordan, I have the question here. And I could set, like, the minimum amount of mixes before it goes to, foundation.

Yep. Right? So I'll set that at, like, let's say, five, and then apply. So to break that down, that basically means that once that coin has had five mixes, I know there is some randomness, it's not always five,

it will then send to a fresh address in that other wallet that you defined, which in this example was was passport prime. Yeah. And then so, basically, those funds will automatically... As part of the CoinJoin transaction, let... Let's just say, for argument's sake, the fifth one,

the... Rather than it going back to your Postmates wallet that you've got on screen, it goes straight to an address controlled by Passport Prime. Yeah? Yes, sir. Beautiful. Max, did did you have have a question?

Yeah. It was just about leaving this application open so you can get remixes. Is there a way that you can have the screen locked so people can't see amounts and things if you were to leave your laptop open, let's say. Say you're like... You have it in caffeinated if you're using a Mac or whatever, it's it's just running.

You have your password protection on this application, Ashigara desktop, but you don't want, you know, family to walk in and be like, oh, okay. They've got this much Bitcoin mixing or they, you know, they can see it. Other than just closing the window, is there a way to have it running but, like,

a black screen or just like an image or something? Well, I think in that case, what you would do is that you would lock the wallet. Okay. So you can do that.... Like that. But but when it's locked, it's still gonna be running in the background.

So if we go to settings, you can see maybe if it shut down. Yep. Sorry. Tools, logs.

Yep. So it's still sitting there. Still has a registered input. Okay. Yep. So you can do that. You just you just click lock lock wallet, and it will continue mixing and doing its thing, but no one... No prying eyes can access it or... Okay. Perfect. That's good. Yeah. Be... Because,

one of the things that, I wasn't able to show the users whatnot was, when I'm opening the wallet, I have to enter in my passphrase. Right? Because I actually have to... Unlock's

not the proper word, but I have to, like, you know, make it hot. Yeah. I don't know. Mhmm. But you kinda see what I'm saying. Right? Like, you you have to give access to, like, the, you know, the private keys in order to do the thing. Mhmm.

But, like, with a lock, that's just based on your password. And so that has nothing to do with the wallet itself. Mhmm. And so you're able to lock that, and then you can kinda see it here, obviously, like, from a log perspective, but I've kind of visual GUI.

Right? The idea of registered input. Yeah.

Very nice. Yeah. I like it. Well, we we are already at time, and I wanna give you a couple of minutes to basically signpost people where do they get hold of it, resources to get started, and then I do have...

In fact, before we sign off with where to get where to go and get it and get and get involved, if you could wave a magic wand and add some features or make some changes to this, what's next? Like, what would you do?

I have to say that, like, at the moment right now, I feel very pleased with, like, where it is, and I'm mostly just waiting on other people to kinda, like, voice their opinion. Like, I've kind of hit that point where, like, I can... I'm gonna walk away for a bit, you know, unless it's, like, you know, security fixes and whatnot.

But, you know, I got other projects that I'll be working on. And, so now is the time, you know, to hit my GitHub, github.com, you know, go to, you know, Lincoln Park rules. And, you know, you'll see my, Pepe hash there so so you'll know it's me.

And and... Yeah. And so put put in the issues. Bring up stuff that you wanna see in it.

Because I'd like to make it more than just a wallet. It's like, you know, something that you should wanna open up, you know, from time to time, not just, you know, visit every three months and be like, oh, I got some mixes.

So... Okay. Nice. Well, if people want... Like the look of it, where can they download it? Where can they read the resources? How do they get started? Yeah. So like I said, github.com, will have...

Here. I can actually go right here. So you can kinda see github.com/lincolnpark rules.

Yeah. Any plans for a website? You know, that's a great, call there, Kim. Maybe I should actually work on that. Just a nice landing page. Maybe I could just make that with github pages super easy too. And then, you know, post it on the socials and whatnot.

Yeah. I think... But, yeah, that's probably the best option. You you can, you know, showcase the actual user interface because that's what gets... Especially kind of more users that are newer to this. They see it and they think, oh, it actually doesn't look anywhere near as scary as

as I might have thought it is. I think, you know, even if it's just a a simple landing page would be would be a great addition. Agree. Yeah. No. Great call. This is a two minute warning TikTok, motherfuckers.

Beautiful. Well, Jordan, this has been great. I... It's been a joy watching this come along leaps and bounds. And, again, it's testament to to what's possible with a bit of persistence and some AI assistance.

So hats off, mate. I think this is wonderful. We'll definitely link up about getting the... A Shigaru export format added to Passport Prime.

If you wanna add in the the QR code scanning, again, it's all an open source library, it should be trivial for you to take a look at what Sparrow does and make it that easy. You're still screen sharing, by the way.

Yeah. I'm trying to get back to Alright. I'm just thinking when you said docs or your telegrams. But Yeah. No. No. All good. All good. Yeah. I'm gonna wrap this up. I'm gonna turn this screen share off because we got a weird parallax effect.

And, yeah, wish you all a happy Friday. Happy freedom's at Friday. Hope you all have a great weekend. And we will, well, I say we. Max and Seth will be back next week. I am actually, going to see a friend somewhere in Europe, so I won't be, won't be online.

But for everybody else, I'll catch you on Monday for the Bitcoin brief, which, again, is live. Max, Jordan, this has been great. Thank you very much. And to everybody else, stay ungovernable. Have an awesome weekend.