Ghostly Messenger with Miguel

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This week, we have no q and a. We have no Seth, so we're retard maxing it here. I've just explained to our very exciting guests, Miguel Medeiros, who I'm about to do a full intro for in a second, that we will have to dumb things down for me today.

But I'm very, very excited to get into today's topic. The largest boost from last week was from late stage Huddl. Last week's show was with Pavel Luptak. And late stage Huddl said, didn't read my boost, but read the next one who has a lot more...

But read the next one who has a lot more insightful maturations, but still do keep up the good work, gents. I'm not gonna do that, mate. It's the it's the largest boost that gets in, and that's you. So thank you for that.

So without further ado, Miguel, you were last on when we talked about the phoenix d dashboard. Since then, you have shipped ghostly, a peer to peer messenger with a built in wallet and no server at all.

It's got over 4,000 commits in eight months. New version 1.6 o is out this week, and you've also turned your personal website into a three d island you can drive around. Welcome welcome back. How's it all going, mate?

There's that too. I almost forgot about this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So... Yeah. Oh, thanks for having me again. It's my second time here. Right? And this time, I'm gonna tell you a story of what I've discovered.

Ghostly was, like, not meant to be. Like, I didn't I want to do this. It was just me being creative Mhmm. And trying to get out of the box. So I don't know. Do you want me to start, like, telling the story?

Yeah. Let's let's start. Let's also warn everyone. This is Q's fault, by the way. This isn't my tech... Ineptitude. We're still showing last week's episode for some reason. I don't know why that's happening. So for everyone who's about to tell me in the chat, I I know. No more flag theory.

But, yeah, let's let's dig into it. I've obviously... I've watched the video on Ghostly. We we talked about it on the Bitcoin brief maybe a month ago or so

before inviting you on. And and both me and Kew were like, wow. This thing's really fucking cool. Just seems like very, very useful, very much up our street. Pretty much ticks all the boxes for what we wanna talk about on Freedom Tech Friday.

So, yeah, let's talk about, you know, how and why this started. You've got a full time job. You've got lots of other projects. Like, how do you find the time and and why do you find the time to do this?

Oh, man. I don't know. My brain, like, doesn't stop. And when I when I... I know I'm super creative and when I see something that I... Okay. I can do this so I just can stop it. And I was there before AI and with AI is like super tired and, like, it's just one prompt away. Right?

And you guys see that I've built, like, a factor of agents using work... Using Ghostly so I can build anything right now just just by anywhere. It's crazy. So that's why I think you can build anything right now.

That's a super gloomy future because I feel like everybody's like a doomer. Oh my god. And me, I'm so creative. I just want to build right now. And and, yeah, that's that's what you see, like, whole ecosystem on top of Ghostly so fast.

I can show you how I'm how I'm developing Ghostly because I'm developing Ghostly using Ghostly. So, like, it's super cool. So so how did it start at the beginning, though? Like, obviously, you're a creative guy. You're you're thinking about Freedom Tech. You've got this incredible AI tools at your disposal, so you can become a reality.

But why this... Like, how did it start? So I was working at Cinnamon at the time and there was a guy called Nuvi that he discovered something really clever on how to do like a decentralized DNS.

And back then, there was a primitive for pubkey right now. There was, like, a whole social network on top of this and, like, home servers and everything. But it started with, like, a super simple idea.

It was like building a d... Decentralized DNS. So do you know, like, BitTorrent, the way that you can share files? BitTorrent runs on top of a network that's called Mainline DHT. DHT means distributed hash tables. Right?

So... And in this in this network, you can be a peer. Right? And by being a peer, you also have a public key. And and you generate by having... By generating a secret key and, you know, everything's like Bitcoin. Right? A key there. Mhmm. So in this network, big tory network made by DHT, you are a public key.

And R and Nuvi had an idea, really clever at that time, that maybe this public key could be your domain. Right? Your address. So you can fetch the data from the main line DHT and this data will be a DNS schema. The same DNS. The same schema that you have in DNS, you know, a record,

TXT records, you know, that you put in your... When you go to configure your domain name. Yep. The same thing. So you have a public key that you generate yourself like nobody. No need to no need to ask any registrars or any company to generate a key. Right? The same as Bitcoin.

So you generate your key. That's your domain, let's say. And then you fetch where your data is by asking this main IDHT.

Okay. And that was... Their their idea was pretty clever now because everybody has their own domain. But the thing is, like, the domain is not... Is ugly. Right? Like, you can not choose, like, uncensored or dot whatever. You wanna... You know, you cannot choose that. You cannot choose... They have a pet name. Right? Mhmm. And then

that was my first, like, attempt to add a pet name into into into Picard, into this this... The system that Nuvi invented.

And I've created something that's called self re records. Let me... Can I share my screen real quickly? Yeah. Of course. Go for So you can see what I'm saying. So it's better to see the stuff. Yeah. Definitely. Okay. One sec. I think I think you need okay.

So this is public key slash Picard. That's what I'm talking. Public key addressable resource record. So we can have a public key and they're addressable. Right? And what you get is a resource record. It's it's...

So it's kind of like this. Right? You have like a key. Imagine if you have like HTTPS slash slash and then you have a key and you can enter this as... This is your domain. That was the idea. It was super clever.

And then it is used something that calls b e p 44. You know that Bitcoins have, like, bips? But the main idea is she have b e p's. And one of the b e p's in b e p 44 allows you to store a thousand bytes of random data, kind of a op return. Mhmm. And then those peers on this mainline DHT, the one that collects

those data and and keep that for you, they they they keep those 1,000 bytes. And and and Nuvi at the time, oh, let's put the DNS. So then we can we can have leverage all the libraries, everything, all the infrastructure that they already have prepared for DNS schemas, you know, compaction and stuff like that. Let's put a DNS schemas,

and then you can have a decentralized domain. That was the first idea. And then... But we didn't have, like, a path names. Right? So we built something that was self records. At that time, Luffy hated this idea. Like, doesn't have anything sovereignty, but it was just me trying to understand DNS. Right?

Because if you're building, a decentralized DNS, I just want to understand what DNS was capable at the time. And then I do something on... Do you know BIP three five three that you can put

both 12 in a TXT record? Do you know this? No. I... You you are you are talking to the chief player on it. Imagine if I fetch... I'm just fetching my DNS. This is real. Like... And I put, like, hello before because I I I just put on the line hello.t.

My my domain. But you can put anything. Just migamodeo.dev. And it fetches me this TXT record. So see hello dots, and I put, like, user and underline bitcoin payment.migamodeo. And I put, like, a bot 12 here.

So this is storage... Start on my on my domain name server. Okay? Right. Right. Right. So this is bit 353. It was built by Matt Correlo.

That... That's a clever idea because then you can receive money by just saying, hello. Let me get my datas out there and most wallets will pay for me because they go through this... Both of them here and then, you know, find a way to to get my... The payment for me. This is really clever.

But I realized, what if I put, like... Since it's a text to record, you can put anything there. Matt Correll decided to put, like, B353. I put

Nostril key. Right? So this is my Nostril key. If you put hello at Miguel de los Adap, you can fetch Yeah. Yeah. My Nostril key. Right? And you can also fetch my PGP. You can also fetch anything. Right? So that was my my my my my first idea that I have to... Okay. Let's... What what if I could do pet names?

But, Miguel, where are ghostly here? There's no ghostly. I mean...

Yeah, there's no ghostly. I'm just connecting dots here because this is an important thing that I've that I've studied and I built this just just for the sake of, like, the... Even if you do the spec, the spec is just simple, super simple. It's just a way that you can put, like, things on your DNS. Like, you you can fetch and see.

Yeah. So what what what you're basically saying is you've you've taken different technologies that are already established and useful, and you're piecing them together into making Ghostly.

That's the point. Yeah. No. No. Now now the next step was, like... And then, like, I think, like, a year passed on this thing... On this self re record, more than a year. And then I can... Was, I don't know, walking in the park and said, what if I put, like... I use this TXT record,

and I I was thinking about self re record at the time. Right? What if I put this TXT record here like a filter here or something? I could put anything on the TXT. Right? I put my PGP, for example. But what if I put a message here and people can read?

Right? What if I put a text in, hello, you know? Yeah. Then I thought, what what if I could do this? It would work. Right? For sure, it would work. But, you know, right, if I could put anything there. Yeah. And what if I if... What if I decided to do, like, some sort of, like, a chat on a domain name?

And that was my my getting out of the box, you know what I mean? And then what if I could just do this? But for DNS, it's like like it's like... Come on. Like, this is horrible. You have to update your Cloudflare stuff. Like, it's horrible. But for Picard thing, for this type of DNS, decentralized DNS,

I could do this. And it's even better because now I have a a key that's ephemeral. I don't care about this. I don't care about the name. Right? The domain name. I just care about the functionality.

And then I can use Picard because I I knew about Picard at the time, and I could use the same scheme and put the message on the TXT record encrypted there. And then

and then I could build a chat between peers. Right? Two peers, two different public key... Keys We store their own thousand bytes of data, and they will store, like, the car records. And then we're gonna have, like, TXT records that are completely encrypted that we we know how to decipher that one.

So that's where the first version of Ghostly was born. So it's just like we're talking through the d h... Through through the mainline d h t. Super like,

okay. Like, I just did it because I couldn't. You know what I mean? Nothing, you know, doesn't scale. I I talked with with Nuvi at the time, the inventor of Picard, and then he said to me like, yeah, that's really cool, but it would never scale.

Like, it's just like... It never scale. Right? And I said, okay. Let's... I was thinking with that. And then like six months later, I did another jump. That was, like, the first thing that... To to fix the scalability, and and and then I I I I build Ghostly

that now you guys saw it. So it was, like, like, two months ago, something like that. Okay. So... And and and what was...... Jump?

So the jump was like, okay. It's not like... It's not... Come on. Like, you're just talking through a thousand bytes of data even if... What what I was doing is when I full... Fulfilled the 1,000 bytes of data, I asked the other the other the other public key if... When it reads... When it writes the the the message, he put, an ACK.

Right? So I can clean up and create another buffer of a thousand. You know? I was just streaming message through a thousand. It was horrible. Right? And then

and then I was talking with Nuvi again about about other topics, about bridging Bitcoin layers and stuff like that. He loves, like, Rootstock. I like drive chains, and we're talking about about, like, nerd stuff. Right?

And then we're talking about this bridging mechanisms, and then

and then I remember there was thinking about this in the shower. And then what if I have, like, a bridging... I use, like, mainline DHT as just like a rendezvous layer, a place that we can just a matching system just instead of talking, hey, like, how are you doing? We just talk like, look.

I I can talk in in this peer to peer channels here, and then we just exchange those messages, and then we talk in another private layer. Right, in a peer to peer layer. And

and then I was like, okay. That... I I could use the main line to be like a matching mechanisms and then we just bridge this into a second layer. And if somehow we just disconnect into the second layer, we just fall back to the same primitive again. Right?

Mhmm. Mhmm. Then I went out the shower and started coding and then it works. I'm saying, oh my god. And then I'm starting using iRel at the time and then I added hyper d h t and WebRTC so I can just talk through through through the web too.

So using relays. Right? There was always there's always a trade off, but that's that's why why... How I how I I created this this bridging mechanism, it was kind of... Now we can have, like, a matching system, matching of capabilities,

and then we choose which protocol we want to talk. So I I think it's this developer page. Okay. I have a good one. So we do like that. Like, we we just invite the other people so they know where to look in the main line DHT,

and then we do this first context. Right? We see each other's DM, like, pinging. So, okay, now we're opinion. We know where we are and how we're gonna do it. We exchange capabilities. So we offer,

have chats, file payments, whatever. And then we decided to reach transport layer we go, and then we go to this transport layer. Right? And then we pair, and then we're alive. And then we could exchange anything.

So that's that's what the idea is. So I have, like, a bridging mechanisms that we can use the main line to go to this second layer, and we choose the second layer which which wanna talk. So that was why...

Very clever. And so when you talk about this second layer or transport layer, you... What you're saying is there's different options to relay these messages between one user and another. And and what are those in, like, normally speak?

So they have, like, WebRTC. Mhmm. It's an open protocol, like Google, all the big ones. That you have to connect through through through web... To the web. Yep. You have iRail two that... This is like QDP connections that's... With quick... Use quick here on the top. And you have HyperDHT that's,

a technology from HomePunch. It could, like, the home HyperSwarm stuff. And Yeah. It's peer to peer... Fully peer to peer connection. So that's the... So mostly today, as, like, all of them. And also have the DHT, like, the main one using the main line DHT. Right? So it can just text through that too.

And I'm researching all this... Other stuff too. Right? There's a lot of stuff that I can integrate. Bluetooth, you know, directed to our connection. So, like, there's a lot of things that I...

I'll probably build this too. But for now, like, I just... Those four here. Yeah. Things that you can transport. So it's kind of a marketplace. We use the mail IDG. So when we agree with how we're gonna bridge into the second layer. Right? And and when we have this peer to peer connections directly,

then we can do anything. Then it was like, Now I can do payments, provide identity, send files, do anything Anything. Right? So so, yeah, that's that's the whole, like, evolution of of of Ghostly.

So that was the the idea. So I I built this cool website that you can just see, like, first start with the invitation and then you invite another ghost, and they both connect.

And then they're going to the the the main line DHT. They know how to find their messages, and no no other other can can know because they're... Everything's encrypted. So there's nothing in the middle. Every... Everything is like...

Then they have, like, these shutting mechanisms, and we then we have the plan that we agree on how to talk on this second layer mechanism. Let's see. Mhmm. Yeah. It's just like a... That was my whole idea. And now that you're connected, you can talk. I I can just show this to you. So I have Ghostly here. It's on the app .ghostly.tools.

And here's my my native app here that I have on my... On this PC. So for example, if I do, like, new chats, copy here to join and paste, what we're doing is we're broadcasting to the DHT, like, so we can find each other. And when we open this direct connection, we connect. Right? And you can say, like, hi.

And you can say, hey. Right? And then, like, from there, I was just building products. Right? And I can just building stuff. Like, let's let's say, like, I don't know. You can send a note. You can send even...

Hello. Hello. You can send, like... You know?

And then from there, was just... So the technical part, you can just fall back. Like, we are connected with WebRTC because I'm through the website. Right? But if you have, like, two apps here, you can choose between them.

They have, like, the details here if you wanna see which one... Two relays you're using right now because it's doing the web. We can we can talk with each other. Right? I don't know. I mean, because I'm using mic, but we can we can do, like, audio calls, video calls,

and then you can move this to a folder. I'm gonna show folders. This folder is, this kind of folders you can create. You can hold messages too. Like, if you if, for example, one of the peers goes down and I'm going to keep sending message, I could skip sending messages. And when both are online, we just poof.

When we have, like, a peer to peer again, we just poof. Everything's safe on client side. And that's showing them the the thing on the other side.

Yeah. Like, you have what... All the technical info here that you wanna... If you're a nerd, you wanna see all the the things, and you you can download, pin a message. And then I started doing more, you know, norm, like, features of a site.

And when I finish it up, I said, okay. Wow. That's cool. Right? But what if I have, like, connect payments or two. Right? And then I edit it. That was the first thing. And then, for example...

And let me... I think I have a few few more now. Let's see. 31 set up to... 71. I have too much. This is real real money. So see? I passed to my other wallets, and here I am, like, sending cash to the other ones. And the cool part you can check, like, I've already have, like, Castnet and Mainnet for Kushlu,

Lightning. Lightning, you can connect with Breeze, North Starwallet, all of them. Right? Mhmm. Super easy to connect right now with agents. I have ARC, BARC, Spark, all the ARC. They're they're really good.

Oh my god. Nice marketing stuff. But, anyways, all the ARC, bark, spark, bitcoin stuff that you can connect with your own node. FannieMaints, you can use, like, means. And even USDT, there's people here in Brazil, like, they use a lot.

So even the other stuff and and like you could easily back up stuff here. And that was like, okay. That's nice. I can send I can send SAS to another.

And and what if I can prove identities? And I was like, oh my god. I can prove identities now. So then I've... I've sent to my to my to my agents, like, prove that you have the SSH key. So I know that you use you. Mhmm. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Prove that you have a Bitcoin address. Prove that you have, like, a Nostra account,

PGP, and and even, a Nostrad key. So that's, a a a pub key, for example. So let let me let me send you, like... Let me send this guy here my pub key. That's it. Let me share with him. And then he's checking. Like, he's checking on his client side. So you you click here, then you check the thing. And for PubKey, I feel like

you can also get part of my feed. Right? Because it's a social network. So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really cool. The thing too, like, if you have, like, a Nostracon, then you can have, like, a confession latest followers and stuff like that. So, like, super cool. Like, you can have, like, those cards and stuff like that.

And and then... Okay. Now we have, like, wallets, how to pay, and then we know how to prove the identity now. Super easy. Just click here and then see. You have advanced TID too. So you just prove that you... If you have a domain here, remember selfie records. Yeah. And it can prove you that you have a domain here.

And then you just just put a domain here,

And then you continue, and then you grab this and put into go see a TXT record. Boom. You can prove.

That's really clever. Right? And you can check on the client side that you... To find this TXT record. So then you can have another card... Identity card here. And then... Don't know. Great. That's fine. Oh, and then after the... Just to avail services too because you can...

Imagine you have, like, a local... You build a website and it's locally. Right? You're still developing the website. And you wanna share with your friends. What do you think about this application that I'm building or whatever, this website? And then you can share the locals. You can just click here. I don't know. Name it. Whatever.

And then you can put local host, the ports, like 2,000 whatever, and then you can share. And then you can... The other people would link and see other side with hot reload and everything. Super cool, this one. So you can share anything on...

Just just dumb this part down for me. The thing I'm wondering here is you're you're talking directly with someone else over whichever protocol you choose. You're able to do all of this stuff, send voice notes, images, video, do all these other connections, but there's no server in the middle.

Does that mean... Nothing. Everything is client side. Everything is client side, and you're just generating everything on the client side and sending it to each other directly. So when you say client side, your your phone or your laptop or whatever will be storing that data on on a file that you choose when you set it up? Or Yeah. Like...

Yeah. Everything everything here is is... It's saved right here. So storage, like, I've already used 1.23 giga because this is my my map that I'm using, sharing video and stuff like that. But, yeah, everything's here. So, yeah, you can back up. So

so from my my, like, monkey brain, I'm looking at all of this, and I'm just... I'm thinking this is really fucking clever. Why would everyone in the Bitcoin space use this? Why wouldn't our ungovernable chats that we have across Signal and Telegram be moved across to here?

That's the only one that's jumped out of me. It's like, I've probably got... I don't know. I I can't even think how many gigabytes of, like, storage we've got across Telegram for for video and and, you know, audio and all the other stuff. To me, at least, like, that seems maybe, like, the only constraint that I can

think of. Is there anything else where... Because it even seems like the UX seems really nice. Like, I'm looking at this and I'm going, fucking hell. This is something, like, I feel like I could use. This looks like Umbral or,

you know, something something very well thought out. It's not like a usual, like, hack a man kind of thing that some more... Like, oh, yeah. Use this thing and it's really good. No. But I think, fuck that. It looks it looks too difficult. This looks slick. So what... Other than that storage part, is there anything else where it's like

you'd say to me, no. Well, I wouldn't jump ship straight away. I would I would, you know, think about it for this reason because I'm still working on this or that or whatever. Or is it like, yeah, go use it. It's... It it just works. I mean, like, yeah, go use it. I'm using it every day. Mhmm.

And it's better when used with agents because they keep online all the time. Right? Mhmm. So look. Let me let me share one thing that's... I show the... Everything, just just the last part. Okay? And then we go to the very interesting part. Yeah. If you think that this this was interesting so far, then you're gonna explode your head now.

So... Yeah. Think... And thanks for the design because I I took a lot of care on this one. Like, I really like going to details and and It's very easy. My best because I really do think that if the design is cool and you you put all the complexity underneath, like, everything automatic...

Automatizing the most complex of things and then it show up in a beautiful way. Mhmm. People don't need that to see... You know, people don't need to see all the the boring parts. They just see the good parts. So that... I try my best.

Yeah. So I'll see as a... Just just a point on this. The more you see as a nontechnical person, the more stressed and worried you become. Like, whenever I can see stuff and I'm like, I don't know what that is. I don't know what that is. That's an option. Should I tick that? Should I not tick that?

And if it's like, just set up the default If you are a nerd guy, you can go to the nerd stuff. Right? But I'm not showing here. I'm not showing anywhere. I'm hiding every... You can go. You can see everything that's nerd here. You can go through everything.

But I wouldn't... I I tried my best to hide and make it more simpler so Yeah. My mom can use this. My grand... Yeah. You know? Yeah. It's really So I did that. And and now... And the the last part that I build on top of this since we are connected in the spirit of your channel,

I build apps. Right? Because it's just... Come on apps. Well, apps is like... You can do anything on top of this. So I'm gonna build, like, for example, this app here. Let's go. We can have chess. PKDNS is always like a...

I have a CDM. We can watch movies together. Boo, blocks. This is this funny one. Example, I invited you to

Minecraft, and now we're both in the Minecraft. Let me see. I'll just do this. Well, let me fly here first. Oh, see? Did you guys see me? I mean, the other ghosts there, and then we can, you know, and we can play with their kids and whatever. Like, I'm not good on on on Minecraft, but you can do it.

So you... We can play, right, real real time. And you can do more. Right? Because apps, you can do anything. So if you can go here to the apps and click ads, you can build your own app. You don't need transformation. Right? You just click here, add to your own local store,

let's say, and you can just invite other place... Other other people to to to to do anything with you that you build. Right? So that's like a unstoppable app store too. That's really, really nice.

And and the last button is just one that you can just have appearance. You can change everything here. You know? You can even, like, compact or... And and all those stuff. Like, you can choose a language,

reduce motions. You can have, like, sounds. All the sounds that you're seeing here You can have here all of the things. You can have all the the the setup things. And here, you can have more than one profile, so you can switch profiles too. And you can...

Since everything's trying side, in order to have this same site, the same chat, and the same profile in a phone, for example, you need to export and sync. Right? So that's the... That's not cool. For example, Telegram,

you can switch between your phone and and your desktop, like, instantly. Right? That's the only downsize of this. But I'm I'm working on this sync mode, so let's see if I can improve this UX too.

So, normally, what I have is, like, I have one profile in my desktop and one in my in my cell phone, and I create groups with agents or, you know, with other people so it's easy to to sync between them.

So, yeah, this is, the the final thing. But now let's go to the more interesting part. So let me open this one. This one is, like, my main app that I use, like, with the latest field. But look. I have, like, a lit... Three folders here.

And one is with my friends, and the other one is with with my agents here. And this is really nice because at first, I was just building with myself and one LLM in CloudApp, whatever.

And I was just building, right, building Ghostly. And then I realized, oh my god. Like, it could be like a CLI, and then and I could just interact with my agent too. Right? And I started building GoSD CLIs.

And then and then what if, like... I was just talking. What if I have, like, a a chat with them in the in the the app. Right? And then I and I could chat with the with the agents through the app. I said, oh my god. This is... And then I've built, like, a lot of features for agents here in Ghostly.

So if you connect with your agents, super simple. You just need to go to Ghostly AI agents here. Just copy this prompt here. Is it like this prompt here? Just copy this thing here. Mhmm. And it will do the same things as Hermes. You know Hermes? Yep. It will do the same thing. So that... For example, this one.

Let's let's talk with my agents here. Let's say, this is my Cerebro. Say hi.

And so... Look. It put, like, a thing here. It's, reading stuff. Say hi, everyone. I'm cerebral. It's

like... He can talk. Right? He can interact with you. He can, like... And there's more things you can do. Like, you can have, like, active test. I can even, like... You can create, like, a special chat message that it's there there there are things that they are... You know, that you can see the PRs.

You know, like like, you have, like, a... And and CloudApp is the same thing. And I and I have, like, a lot of machines here, which one... Each of them with their own armies connect with them. And I have, like, a war room with all of them talking together and and coordinating together. This is super super cool.

And they decided when they have to do a patch, and it's it's very nice to see. Nice. And and I did it even more because it couldn't talk, like, directly to my cloud. To... So I did this. Look.

Hey. I am in a podcast. Can you say hi to my friends? Okay. Say that in English. So now I can go away, talk with my with my agents, like, have, like, a two hour conversation with him while I'm doing things, and he can he can coordinate the other agents for me. So I don't need to do anything.

So I'm just... And the and the the the good part is that I can can can add you, Max. I I like Max's ideas, super clever guy. So I can add you to my... To a group with me and my agents and with your own agent too, and we could chat together and build features together.

Crazy stuff.

So is this part of how you... You've got so many features on here? Is this you collaborating with other people as well as agents? Yes. Pretty much. So you have groups where people say, oh, this would be a cool feature or this would be smart, and then

their agent and your agent will start to build something, and then you can have a look and decide whether Yeah. You can always you can always open issue. Right? I I... I've closed... I'd like Ghostly...

Let me go back here. Where is the repo here? I can do this one. So Ghostly, this is like slash Ghostly. Right? I... We cannot, like, open PRs, but you can open issues. So people are now at open issues, and I'm I'm I'm the one that's building everything with my own... Among clinkers. Mhmm. So it's easy for me to organize everything.

But you can open an issue. You can fork this, create the code that you need to fix, open the issue, point to that that fork, and I can just, you know, do the the whole workflow for you and and that's what I'm doing. So people are now open issues. I've read out people six.

Don't know how many. 18 issues so far Mhmm. Other people. And this this runs fine. I'm getting everything. This runs in browser, but also app. Is that right? Can you have... Could you have an app on phone or or laptop or decide just to run it in a browser? So... Yeah. Wanna do?

So you can you can have native macOS for your desktop... For your Windows and Linux. You can have a browser extension too. Uh-huh. And you can have through command line. Right? Or you can use through the web, like app.goc.tools.

If you don't want to... For example, I've... I went to to plan B Lugano to the conference. Oh, yeah. How was that? Share with... Yeah. It was cool. It was cool.

It's not... It was not that heated because of the price. Right? But it was cool because I have more time to talk with the people that I want. Right? That's even better. Yeah. But but then I showcased Ghostly to them, and I was, like, with my phone.

I was with a with a phone. I I added Ghostly as a PWA. Right? And I just click on my PWA, click new. Right? And I showcase them this QR code here. Mhmm. And they scan it with their camera. It opens through the web, the web browser. Right? Boom. It connected. Right?

It just... It was, like, super easy. Like, it's super easy, like, to show... To showcase Ghostly. Everything went well even though, like, we have, like, five... We're five g. But everything went well. Like... So I I was afraid of that. And everything... Everybody with VPN stuff like... And everything worked. So it was cool. Like, it was a

nice demo to showcase Ghostly. That's a nice way to be able to get someone to try something as well. It's a lot easier than, yeah, go and download this app and, oh, you're better off doing the MMA or you've been with it. And it's like Yeah. Yeah. That just scan and use is is so much fun. Just... Yeah.

And there's a PWA. All of the... Everybody has, you know, the button there. Like, you can just click the boom, you know, add to your home screen and boom. And you have GoCity on your phone.

And and that's really... I don't know. It was it was really funny. I've made a video that that I took pictures and and sent to them, and and then I made a picture with everybody to test it. It's really nice.

I saw that, and they all had ghosts over their faces. Yeah. There are ghosts on their faces and... Yeah. So that's that's... And and I even said, like, for for example, I saw the the guy was building on on on... They built Arc Arcade, and and I show... Showcased, like, look, I have I have Arc here Do want to test it?

If I back code correctly, you're like, you know, and then I got like upset from the guy. I said, wow. That's amazing. The guy was like, oh my god. Just a real camera. So that was that was nice. Very nice.

We had we had a question. I put a tweet out yesterday saying you were coming on. So we had a question on that. Before I do that, I wanna answer any of the questions in the chat to g rider saying thank you foundation for doxxing me. This is not something we're ignoring. I'm waiting for Hugh to come back next week. He's been investigating

what has happened and to try and give advice for people who have been doxed in that, and we don't wanna cover it until we have that. So it will be next week, and we'll we'll cover it in detail. We're not shying away from it.

To Alan King, yeah, I think you've messaged the last couple of episodes. Everyone can do what they need to do. Our advice here stays the same. Do not give your personal information to anyone if you can avoid it, and tune in next week when we cover all of this.

Outside of that, we did have a question from Enki Tech saying difference of this and Kite and white noise.

White noise is the nostril I think it's the, like MLS. I think it... Yeah. It's, like, if everything goes down, it's kind of useful kind of one... Was it Dorsey who was... Yeah. This... I thought about this MLS encrypted stuff because you can... Then you can have offline stuff way better. Right? Mhmm.

There's a trade off. Right? It's not really true peer to peer. Kits, in the other hand, is is real peer to peer. Yeah. But it doesn't work on the web, for example.

Doesn't work on the web as in you need an app. Is that what you mean? Yeah. You need an app. Yeah. Yeah. You couldn't do, like, scan this this thing and go to an app. And because I'm using relays. Right? And key is, like, hole punch in all of that ecosystem, isn't it?

Mhmm. Mhmm. I'm using HyperDHT, like, their technology. What... Is one of the transfer layers. Works super super well. Mhmm. So

mine is a bag of things, and and and... For example, I... I've added, like, forward secrecy, like, last release. So there's a two thing that I'm adding to, right, to match their quality too.

But I think I'm... For example, I'm the only one that supports saying... Sending money and proof of identity, I think so. I don't know if Keith can do that. Maybe Keith can do that too. I don't know. I don't know if got any I can I can do the same same thing that Keith does with the blind peers

to do the offline rooms and stuff like that so I can absorb this to my own thing? Mhmm. Because now I can fall back to the DHT. I can rely on other peers, let's say. I don't know. There's a lot of things that I can build on top of this, you know, but the primitives are are different. That's right.

Yeah. I don't know what is the main difference here. But let's say, like, ghostly and kit are pure, pure to pure, and and White Nose is not. Yeah. And ghostly using a weapon, kit not. I used key.

It must've been a couple of years ago when there was a bit of chatter about it, and I tried. And I can't remember what it was that stopped me from using it. I think I was just testing it, and maybe I did some messages. I think what what stopped you from using is because...

What's stopping you from using is was because the code was not open source. Maybe it was that. Yeah. Maybe everyone would then said, oh, we're not gonna bother. But I tried it, and it worked and all that. And then we just carried on with our lives, and I and I haven't used it since. But this seems a lot more

aligned with what we talk about at Freedom Tech, and I like the... It's kind of like a a Swiss army knife with all the stuff that you can do with it. Yeah. It's a it's a real... A proper toolbox.

Yeah. Like, a marketplace of transfer players, a a marketplace of identities, a marketplace of payments, you know, marketplace of services. That was my idea. Like, I just open a decentralized marketplace protocol of anything. That was my main... Using DHT to communicate those capabilities.

So that was my... See, I didn't want to do that at the beginning. Like I said to you, like... But... Yeah. It's super cool. But that's why I'm... Now I'm pushing a little bit, like, to make, like, videos and, you know, trying to explain it better because I thought it was, like, a really cool idea, and I'm using, like, every day.

So... Yeah. Yeah. I I think it it is a really cool idea. And I think you did a couple of videos that I watched, like, animations of how it works and that kind of stuff, which were were nicely put together. But I think sometimes in this space, there's... Especially now with AI, it's got, like, its pros and cons. The the pros are, well,

anyone can build... Pretty much anyone can build some amazing stuff. But then also, a lot of people build kind of pointless or or not that useful stuff, and it drowns out some other projects because there's always something new. And I guess the other downside is

everything's getting hacked all the time and everything's just on fire at the moment, which is, I guess, the other Yeah. The other downside of of AI. But I think things do get drowned out. It's kind of why we do this show. We wanna push the things that really matter. And this seems

really, really useful. And I... I've I've sort of sat trying to think, like, how do you cut through the noise and let more... I guess, just use. I guess, if it becomes used by more and more people who are currently getting sick and all and...

Yeah. Yeah. I understand that you want adoption. Right? But I'm doing this for myself. So, you know, that's... I understand this. I I I went to the conference. I I... I'm collecting all the feedbacks. I'm implementing the feedbacks. Right?

There is no issue that I I couldn't find a way to to integrate with the app. But at the end, I don't care any much because I'm doing it for myself. If you give me good insights, oh, amazing. I'm gonna do that one. You know? But for example, I was in the plan b and I thought about, okay. The the qVac

the qVac thing, the the AI that TETR is doing, at the beginning, tested once. It was horrible. And now, like, it's getting good. So maybe it could use local LLMs to to use... To do translations for for... In in chat, for example. So as an app, you can install an app and then, you know, you have translations now.

So I'm get... I'm collecting all the feedbacks and and the good ideas, but at the end, I'm building for myself. It's that's... I think that's that's why it's good, I think. Because they're they're really good reasons. You know?

Something just... Hello? Hey, Max. I'm alone here. Okay. Are you back? Yeah. Sorry. That was that was my connection. I have no idea what's what's happened there. I don't even know when we got cut off. I was I was rambling along.

So sorry about that. Thank you to a nine... Oh, go ahead. Well, I think I'm losing you again.

Just keep talking. This Internet sucks. Yeah. Anantipted. Just send me some letters because it's fun while watching live on XMetball. Keep up with the great work. The Michigan Creole Unisket.

Good.

Well, okay. He's back. I think so. I'm back. I'm back. I hope. I don't know what's going on. Sorry. So, yeah, I was just saying that I built for myself. So I think that's why it's good because I'm testing all the time. You know? Mhmm.

Yeah. I guess I I get that point. And as John has just said in the in the chat, what I would like to see or... You know, I know it's just it doesn't really matter if other people use it, but we've got this bifurcation of all these different communication channels, and it gets really difficult to track.

It's like, did they write to me on signal, or was it telegram, or was it key, or was it on Twitter, or was it some other... You know, whatever type of, thing someone's using. There's so many different ones over the years.

And, you know, Simplex and all all the stuff. So by getting more people to use it, it then makes it better for everybody because it becomes more usable, and it's like, oh, yeah. That's just the go to thing.

And from my perspective and, you know, as I said at the top of the show, I'm not the techy one. We're missing our techy friends for this episode. But to me, it seems like a no brainer. Like, why would I trust Telegram instead of the... You know, using this where it's peer to peer?

It doesn't make any sense. And to me as well, like, the fact that you don't have to have a phone number or anything tied to this if you don't want to seems like a... An obvious win. So outside of, like, you not having the server that holds all the information and, like, storage for you outside of the storage constraints,

it seems like why wouldn't I fucking use this? Just use it, man. Well, I I will. I'll I'll use it, then I'll cause some problems and make some mistakes, and then I'll report back to you. And Just report back. Report back. My clinkers will will fix for you. Don't worry.

It's the ultimate test. Yeah. Yeah. It's the ultimate test, and and they're getting getting so much good after all those 5.5 that I'm like, what? And, yeah, I'm amazed by this.

I feel like everybody's going to be like a project manager somehow and build the cool ideas. And if you you are engineer, you're the best moment of history. Don't be like a doomer. Mhmm. You you have all the knowledge. You know all the pieces. Come on. Just connect them.

Yeah. You just need to be creative. Just ask. Like, it's... Why? I think this is a security issue. If you're not doing your clinkers right now, it's a security issue. Yeah. Because I was like... And there was a meetup for that...

For the red team Bitcoin Mhmm. And Lugano. And they're talking about this. Dude, it is an issue right now. Like, there's more than us. They know. They have more context than us. We cannot have that many things connected at the same time. It's impossible. So let them, you know, trust them a little bit.

And and do, like, as much as you can. You're on your CICD. I know... Now I'm talking to developers. Just as much as you can to do deterministic testing stuff so you can mitigate, like, hallucinations or things that you don't wanna deviate from your ideas. Okay? So this is this is really... You need to focus on workflow, CICDs,

testing, and and that's it. Like... And to be honest, now they're testing the the ghostly with themselves. I do bug huntings. Do go... I do twice bug huntings per day so they can talk with them... With each other, and they find bugs. And they they build Ghostly itself. I don't need to... You know?

For the patches, I don't need to do anything else. They find it, all the bugs, and they fix all the bugs. That's why I have, like, a lot of patches because they're just fixing everything and just releasing.

And, by the way, super easy to upgrade. You just click a button and you're... It just... It's super easy, like... And in the browser, just refresh the browser. So... The way I look at it is that any competent dev just stops being a dev working on their own stuff and now manages a massive team.

So you're you're there just to get your clankers to go and do, you know, 10, 20, a 100 times the work that you could have done in the day, and then you review it and do the important stuff. So you become a manager Yep. Rather than Yep. Than just working alone, which is... I guess, it's a different skill set,

but still, like, having that knowledge. You know, I see I see the difference between, like, I can do some stuff with AI, like, stuff, and then there's levels to this stuff. And it just goes up, and and the better a dev you are, the the more stuff you can you can get done.

John in the chat has asked... He said, so I'll ask a question. How can we aggregate all of our chats spread through different programs? This would be a... This is something I've talked about him for... Forever because I'm constantly switching between, I don't know, four, five, six different apps.

And then, like, I'm in chat rooms across hundreds of them, and it's like, someone messaged me and I can't remember who, where, and it's just... It's a fucking mess. Is there a way that that could be done?

What? So, like, one check to rule them all? Yeah. Mhmm. Like, I just signed up If if if you can have, like, integration to fetch some messages, you know, pull everything and and aggregate them, you can you can you can build in Ghostly for sure.

But I would you have to be, like, a gator of messages and and and, you know, have to do, like... Each chat will be, like, a, you know, different... A different class. You know? I guess, like, you know, as an example, when we when we make videos on ungovernable and post them out, I'll tag entities.

So, like, I'll have you tagged with your your name, your Twitter profile, your Nosta profile. And then when I'm gonna make a tweet with a video to share, you know, parts of this show, it will then be able... I'll just be able to press it, and it will tag you.

So something similar, but across, like... So you... You've got a a phone or a computer running with some sort of AI on there, and then it's like you have Telegram open, signal open, etcetera.

And then I I go in, and I can have a look at anything that you've written to me in one place on Ghostly. Like, anything that you've written to me with any of them.

Like an aggregator. Right? Maybe if you connect your agents to to to all of the chats and the agents will con... You know, can coordinate all of the message to you when you have, like, a cool UI.

You know? And then you just talk with one guy, answer all of them. You know what I mean? I know. Yeah. Answer, I don't know, whatever, and then answer or Michael, whatever. Just one chat with... To all of them and work, you know. I don't know. But this is like a hard job. Yeah.

Like, and just... I don't know. It's hard. This this issue is hard. I don't know the answer. Yeah. Well, look, we're we're getting close to time to wrap up on the hour. Yeah. I just wanted to cover... I think we've we've covered pretty well everything on Ghostly.

I definitely need to do some testing and maybe ungovernable can start trying to use it

to communicate and and plan everything that we do. And and, you know, if we have issues, I'll chat to you. But it it seems fucking awesome. I'd suggest to anyone to go and try it as well. Before we do wrap up Yeah. I wanted to just cover a little bit on this island. I was driving around your island.

What made you do it? Was this all AI? I've I've not seen it before. It's just... It was quite fun. It was a bit different. So now yes. Yeah. If you open the there's a dev, you're gonna see Show us on the website.

Okay. Me I

thought it was fun. It was a way to explore in a visual way, which I liked. I think to Max, I think you have to... Yeah. Yeah. So this is like... This is my. This is my website, Miguel de la dev.

And here was, like, me after Fable 5.1. I was always messing around with the library called three j s because I love the stuff. I I played with Blender before. I was, like, interested in drawing stuff, good stuff.

But it wasn't good. You know? It wasn't good. And I didn't have time to to be good at. You know? And and then when Fable came in, I said, oh my god. I could do, like, three d stuff now. And I was doing with the three g s libraries, but it wasn't that good. But I've smashed the front out of it and made this website.

And then five... Opus 5.6 and then Astra came in and then voila. You can do, like, way more things now. But this was made with Fable mostly and then a little bit of Opus. But it was like me playing around with three gs. So I decided to build a website that tells me my story, and you can play my story. So so we start with the

mining card here. He can zoom in, zoom out. Hold on. Let me check. And then you can. Right? Right? And you can have, like, first person view too. Like, you can do like that. You can connect a little bit of Iris there. So my idea here was, okay. Now I have this this this

way to play with three j s. So let's let's do a little bit of my life. So if you just navigate the map, you're gonna see that there's a logo here. So I've worked in Pavki. And if you click here, you can even see two things.

Me presenting a little... I actually was in Prague. You can see that we we travel all around the world for pubkey. It was nice.

That's about the worst of that. So I put, like, things that... There's, like, a lot of Easter eggs here is, like, Frankie is, like, the first version of, like, pub key. They call it Frankie. So you can... I have a lot of Easter eggs. I'm not gonna show everything, so you can grab Frankie if you want to. You can even take pictures

and you can share the things if you press, like, e. You you can take a picture. I have a album there. Look at this. I have albums and stuff like that. You can... And... Yeah. And then you can also do droning.

I remember when it was drone... Fly drone three t. So you can have a drone there, and you can fly the drone through the sea. Right? So for example, here is Electron working at a mining company right now. So called Electron Energy.

You have the the... I don't know if you know the history of money in the Bitcoin standard, they they talk about the Yapi Iceland that they... This was the stone at the time. They carved the names of... You know? Even one of the Yapi, they're under the sea. And this is my GitHub castle. Let me go back to the

let me go back to my GitHub. This is interesting. Because you can come in. And then here, like, all... Every... I can see here right on the top. Every book here is a repository of mine that you can go there and see. You can go see me and pull the JS and stuff like that that I built.

So, yes, it was just me that we set. There is a... I work from Empu dot space. Right? So there is a mempool here. You can see the weather is...

There's a MEMPU here. Boom. You can see... And all of the blocks here, you can see all of the blocks here. If you click on the blocks, they're real blocks. If you click on the blocks, they're real.

Like, this is... And then I've I've went to a lot of conference here. Yeah. So I built this bridge here. Oh, this is like a... I have, like, in my city in Kurichiba. We have, like, a animal Capivara here. Like, it's... So I have, like, in Skurichiba, I have a Capivara Lake because Skurichiba in-depth, so I've

organize that one. And I have, like, a bridge, a... The multicolored bridge is from from Prague. Right? And you can enter, a... I have I have multiplayer now, so you can... Oh, there's there's one thing that's that's really really nice. Let me show you one thing here. Hold on. Hold on. You can... Yep. Oops.

You can do this. Let me show you.

So can we have a boat ride? Oh, I have to pay with lightning. So so... Okay. Let me pay. Hold on.

Let me see if I can pay which one? Phoenix.

So you can have a a boat. Mhmm. Scan it QR code. Okay. Pay. Let's see if it works. Send. You're in. So I can have a boat now. And

and the golfing, they they follow me. There's a whale. Like, you can... And if you go to the other path from next to my to my to my castle, like, you have to watch out because I have, like, three lights here, and they have cannons.

And they and they shoot you. Look look at the cannons.

So... Yeah. You can do this stuff. I don't know why I did I don't know why I did this, but, yeah, I did... Well, it's it's a it's a cool way to explore,

like, in a visual way everything that you're doing as a person and as a dev. Like, it's it's fun, like, for people who like visual things. So I just thought it was cool. I had a little play around. I thought it's Yeah. You you know, rather than just a wall of text, like, here's what I've done, here's where I work, here's why.

And it's like, it's just different. I really liked it. So listen, mate. We're Yeah. We're above our hour now. Yeah. It's been great having you on again. I'm sure we'll have you on again in the future as well. You're building some really fucking awesome stuff.

So hat tip to you, and thank you to everyone in the chat who's joined us. Go and check it out. Ghostly. And, yeah, thanks for joining us. I really do appreciate it. Thanks, Ryan. Thanks for having me. But before you do go anywhere to point people, we just obviously showed your website. Anywhere else?

Go to ghostly.tools. Ghostly.tools. Okay. Check it out. Awesome. Alright. Thanks very much, mate. Thank you, Max.

Thank you for listening to Freedom Tech Friday. To everyone who boosted, asked questions, and participated in the show, we appreciate you all. Make sure to join us next week on Friday at 9AM EST and 2PM London.

Thanks to Seth, Max, and q for keeping it ungovernable. And thank you to Cakeballet, Foundation, and my Nim Box for keeping the ungovernable misfits going. Make sure to check out ungovernable.network to see q and his clankers web design skills.

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