MONERO MONTHLY ...ISH

The business will fall victim to a ransomware attack every eleven seconds eleven seconds. I am investigator investigator.

Our agenda for today, we're gonna start with just the basics of Monero. What it is, how it works, how it works. Monero is considered a privacy token. The world's most private privacy. Which means that it hides virtually all transaction details.

World's most private privacy.

Monero monthly ish show. Yeah. Ish is a ish is a good term. We're here. We we try to update as frequently as there's some some good stuff in

Monero land as frequently as one of us is not deathly ill, which Mhmm. Seem to be taking turns on that one. So Yeah. Yeah. We're back. We're back. Deathly ill or underwater with work. But I think it's good. I mean, an ish is better than a consistent, and you're just reporting on, like, nothings.

It's like software updates. There's a minor bug fix on such and such. And if you're reporting on that, it's a bit of a boring show. So we'll keep it as a Monero monthly ish. And I think when we get an interesting guest like, having Fluffy on was fucking awesome. I absolutely love that show and having people jump in. So maybe

a few more things like that. And if people have topics that they wanna dive deep into, we go into those. We have one today mainly because I have questions on it, and we have got some updates on top of that. But we don't wanna be doing shows when,

when it's bug fixes, do we? Monero works too well. Yeah. We're not gonna force them. Monero can be boring sometimes because it it does just work. There's not constant debates about people putting files on the blockchain, people trying to fork other people's money out of Bitcoin,

all that fun stuff. So it just it works. You send, you receive, you have privacy, you just you just live your life. So we try to make it as interesting as we can here, though. Yeah. Is that maybe a marker of success, though, when the sort of scammers and

all the infighting and all that stuff, is that because it's got big enough that there's some bullshit that has to be around it? Or is it just that Monero is so solidified as we just do privacy?

That's what we do. Like, that it's it's very difficult to infiltrate and try and cause drama. I think there's really two sides of it. I think part of it is definitely that there is such an aligned

such a clear I shouldn't say aligned necessarily, because there's always people that come and go that have a different vision for what Monero should be, but that there's such a a focused vision for Monero that doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room for interpretation.

Like Mhmm. It's very clear since 2014 what Monero is designed to be. And, I mean, we we had people come and try to do ordinals on Monero and other stuff like that, but it just Yeah. It doesn't gain much uptake, those sorts of things,

because the people who are here in Monero like, it's not drawing a lot of speculators. It's not drawing a lot of just kind of normies who are like, oh, yeah, Monero. Like, I wanna, like, degen trade or do perps or all this crazy stuff with Monero. That's that's not the kind of person that's getting drawn into Monero.

Mhmm. Both because of the community that Monero already has, but honestly, because Monero has been pushed out of the the normal circles so completely. People aren't seeing it on exchanges. People aren't seeing it in the news outside of that people use this.

Yeah. So I think we just generally won't pull in different types of people. But I think there's also an a negative reason for things being as kind of quiet as they are, which is that there's been a lot of turnover in the Monero community when it comes to to devs and researchers and community members.

Alright. And I I mean, a lot of that's normal. Like, I don't even know if there's been more in Monero than there has been in Bitcoin. I mean, you have countless, countless big names that were in Bitcoin at one point and have completely bowed out. Like, one of my favorite people in the Bitcoin space, Andreas Antonopoulos,

he just said, I've had enough and left the space a few years ago, understandably. Yeah. I don't blame him because people are fucking rude and disrespectful. But isn't he got some sort of health problem now? I'm sure I saw on Twitter. There was some

there was, like, a post saying I'm I'm from him saying, like, I'm stopping doing livestreams now due to health issues. Okay. So I hope he's okay. Because he's just the best that I've ever experienced in terms he's the he is the person that, for me, made it all click. And it wasn't like he was the first. He was

you know, I'd I'd listen to loads of different people and, like, people sort of, like, trying to explain things in different ways to a nontechnical person. And then I found his content, and I was just like, oh my god. Like, this is fucking amazing.

The way that he explains things, the analogies, the energy, everything else that he had was was incredible. So I hope he's alright. Yeah. I mean, he he if anyone in the space is a an idol or a hero of mine, it is absolutely Andreas Antonopoulos.

Like, he is one of the one of the few people who, especially through the, like, the hardest Bitcoin maximalist days when people went so crazy. He's one of the few people who had been in Bitcoin long before any of those laser eyed guys came along. Yeah.

And he understood Bitcoin, I think, better than almost anyone out there, could explain it better than anyone else out there, but never became blinded by any of the tribalism or the craziness in that community

and continue to be somebody who could could advocate for and speak clearly about the nuances, the pros and cons of things like Ethereum, of things like Monero, of things like Zcash, and could could clearly explain what is good and bad about each solution, what works, what doesn't.

And there's just so few people that can do that, that can actually touch on those things with nuance and remain calm and collected. He's one of those people that I I absolutely idolize and try to emulate as best I can. Never never will be to that level.

But I I definitely remember, a few years ago, I went to a hackers congress parallel Napolis in Prague, and he just happened to show up the second day. And just, like, I feel like half the conference, we just swarmed around him and just, like Yeah.

Listened to him and asked him questions.

And it was that was by far the the best thing I've ever done or been a part of at a conference, I was just getting to hear how just off the top of his head, he could answer all of these difficult questions about technology, but also about community, about consensus in Bitcoin, about privacy in Bitcoin,

and just fire those things off the top of his head, but speak in such a a clear and nuanced way that was not just, yeah, not just trying to shut down anything else, but willing to really, like, have difficult philosophical or technical debates with people,

in a a way that was just really kind. So he's definitely one of those people that unfortunately did get a lot of crap, mostly because he didn't stay, like, quote, unquote, Bitcoin only.

And I'm sure that's a lot of what drove him away. But hopefully, his his health will get better too. I had no idea about the health stuff. I knew he had been still doing his kind of q and a livestreams, but not doing any social media for the last few years, but, yeah, definitely hope it gets better. Some health thing, but

yeah. Yeah. I hope it gets better too. I don't know why we just went down at that address.

Rabbit hole there. What were we just talking about? Oh, yeah. I think I was just talking about turnover in the the Bitcoin and Monero community. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How that's kind of kind of made thing quieter too made things quieter because I mean, there there really was a time when there was a lot more

discourse around Monero. There are multiple people in the Monero research lab constantly spitting out research papers and ideas. There were a lot of people outside of the Monero community coming up with improvements and technical ideas and testing things in Monero. It feels like there was a lot more focus from a a research and, like,

idea perspective when it came to Monero back in the day. But I think a lot of that also just kinda went away when Monero became a solid, consistent, effective,

broadly used tool. Like, some of that, like Yeah. Initial hype of it could be anything or there's so many things to improve necessarily goes away as you fix the problems that it has. Like, it had a lot of problems that came out in 2014 that had to be improved, and people had to find novel ways to

to do so. And a lot of those things don't really exist anymore because they've been solved. Yeah. And f c and p plus plus will solve really the last major issue. So you do kinda necessarily get a narrowing and a almost an ossification of

Monero as you fix those core issues just because there's less to kind of debate on how do we solve this thing. Times change as a project gets more solidified and clarified in what it will be from a a technical and a philosophical perspective.

It's different people as well. You see this with businesses

in two categories. You have the types who will build something from the ground up, a 100 things to do. These are all the different possibilities. It could go this way. It could go that way. Decision, decision, decision, decision. They just bang through things and get things built.

And then once it gets built and the company is stable and steady and knows exactly what it is, they get really fucking bored. And then person type number two has to come in, and they just turn the dial slightly.

That's an improvement of 0.05% tiny little changes where person a would be extremely bored doing that, and they're onto the next thing. And maybe it's kind of similar to that in the sense that, like,

this is a thing. This is how it works and the improvements. Although, like, f c and p, like, isn't, like, a minor improvement. I don't mean to say it in that way, but you get different personality types as things grow up, and the change is less dramatic. And I think it is the same with Bitcoin.

It's the same with Monero, and it's the same with any business. Yeah. Yeah. It definitely it always applies to those things. I mean, in Bitcoin, when we're talking, like, 2012, 2013, people were proposing whole scale improvements like confidential transactions, hidden amounts for Bitcoin.

Like, CoinJoin was a brand new concept. Like, these huge, very altering proposals were being made to Bitcoin, and we're being seriously discussed on whether or not this should be implemented.

Whereas now, I mean, you're like, the majority of the discourse is over whether one person should be able to censor another person's transaction or what we'll do about quantum resistance, which is is an important large topic, but it's a relatively minor thing on the technical side of how you actually solve it.

I mean, most of the discussions these days are on these small nuance things like RBF. There's a huge debate over this whole replace by fee thing in Bitcoin, and Mhmm. It does get to those, like, minor optimizations and smaller things. And even those become hard to solve as you do kind of ossify over time. But

but, yeah, we've we've still got some good stuff. Good people building around Bitcoin, wallet ecosystem getting better every day, good mining stuff that's come along. So we definitely have have stuff to chat through before. But do you wanna jump into our main topic for today first? Yeah. So I I think

my main questions I'm just going on, like, me using Monero. And one of the things that I've had recently is keys, key management, view keys. I'm very comfortable with this kind of stuff with Bitcoin.

Obviously, it's different, though. I wanna have a wallet for BTCPay, and I want that for Uncoverable. I don't feel comfortable enough knowing now I've had to share a ViewKey. Should I use that wallet also for personal stuff? My Bitcoin side of my brain goes, no. Separate things out. That would be silly. So have another wallet.

And then I'm like, okay. How is the best way to do that? Is it to have a completely separate wallet, or can I have, like, a like, effectively, like, a child seed so I only have one backup?

Does it not matter at all? Can I just go on to, like, Cake Wallet and say, right, have a second Monero wallet, have a third Monero wallet, have a fourth, or is there, like, child seed type? You know? Like, I can have one wallet, but it would be, like, personal business,

friends and family, you know, whatever it is. I probably should. We've been doing this show long enough, but I just don't really feel comfortable with what I should be doing.

And it feels wrong just to use one wallet. I think just because of using Bitcoin so long and just, like, understanding how unbelievably stupid that would be. Yeah. I mean, I I think a lot of the ideas that we have in the Bitcoin space apply to how we should view Monero keys.

The obvious difference, though, is that when you want to use a view only wallet or I shouldn't say the obvious difference. The main difference is that when you do want to use a view only wallet, the only way to do that is to use your private view key to create that view only wallet.

That's gonna be something like you do with BTCPay specifically, and it's probably the main use case for that today. Though there are other use cases, like if you do if you take public donations, you want people to be able to view those donations to validate them.

You can share that public that private view key, and anyone can see those transactions,

see the details of them without being able to spend those. It's really similar to, like, the XPUB in a Bitcoin wallet. It works a very similar way. But the important thing with those private view keys is that they are global for the wallet. So for that seed,

for that private key, that private view key will reveal all transactions in all accounts. So that's the only real distinction that's a little bit, like, different and important to know. But beyond that, like, I think something that doesn't get leveraged enough

but should be leveraged much more is that Monero has accounts just like Bitcoin. So you can have one seed but have different pockets for your money that can't be spent together, that don't share pools of addresses,

that let you separate things out without having to have an entirely separate wallet and thus a separate seed phrase or backup. Those should be used quite heavily. Like, those are the things where normally you'd use those for, like, your spending money, your savings,

and your donations. You can receive all to the same wallet, but into different accounts to make sure that they're not being blended together, that you're not actually accidentally spending donation funds, which you could be subject to dust attacks or something like that to try and learn something about how you spend your money. Mhmm.

You wouldn't wanna mix that with your regular spending money that maybe you've tied to your your ID somehow or you're paying your barista and they know who you are or something like that, even though you're not revealing anything about your previous spending habits. Still, you might wanna keep that a little bit more private.

But that's where accounts would come in handy and should be used a lot more. You definitely sometimes would want a different wallet. Like, if I was doing BTCPay,

I would definitely create a unique wallet for that, so a different seed phrase, and then use that public or that private Vue key to actually enable that view only wallet in BTCPay. And could you do that within Cake?

I know you can have multiple Bitcoin wallets there. Can you have multiple Monero wallets and then multiple what do you call it? Like, sub you call it? Sub addresses or accounts accounts?

So so you do have sub addresses, but those are just secondary addresses. So you can rotate and not give out the same address so that you don't reveal the same entity.

Obviously, transactions between different sub addresses can't be linked. But if you're giving eight different swap providers the same sub address, you're revealing that you're the same entity between them. So that's why we do rotate those sub addresses. But, yeah, you can do you can do as many Monero wallets as you want.

Obviously, each of those would have a different seed phrase, so you'd have to make sure to back those up. But for most people, you would really only need one wallet, but then multiple accounts. This is something we focused on heavily in 6.o in CakeWallet

is making the account system much easier to use, easier to visualize. We can see see your accounts all at once, see the amounts in your accounts, be able to name them, customize cards, really make the most out of those accounts. And those work just like Bitcoin accounts.

So if you've ever used Sparrow Wallet, if you ever used Envoy, like, a lot of really good Bitcoin software wallets and harder wallets are going to let you use different accounts under the same seed phrase. And so if you're familiar with that, you can do the same thing in Monero. It just hasn't been as widely

supported or pushed as I think it has in the Bitcoin space, which is unfortunate because it's an immensely powerful tool that makes it much easier for you to not have to have a ton of different backups, but just have the one and have the different accounts.

That's the thing. It's like, you you get so many different seed phrases and things written down and stamped into steel and everything. It becomes just a complete mess. So, yeah, accounts is really nice. And what you're basically saying, and tell me if I'm wrong here, is really for almost any user, you just need one

Monero wallet, and then maybe you have multiple accounts within that. So you only need to write down your seed phrase for that one thing. You don't need to fuck around with anything else unless you're using your view keys, like B2C Pay or or something else.

And in which case, you would suggest probably don't mix that with all your private stuff. So at most, you're gonna need two. Yeah. Yeah. Generally, that's that's all you're gonna need. And just like to to maybe clarify a little bit of how the the keys within Monero work.

Some ways, they're a little simpler than Bitcoin. I know in Bitcoin, for those people who are more advanced users, you have, like, x pubs and y pubs and z pubs, and there's there's a bunch of different types of keys that you can use.

In Monero, there's basically there's four, but there's only two that you would actually use for anything. So one is your private spend key. Everyone knows what that is. That's that's what is

derived from your seed phrase or vice versa. That is what allows you to spend from any account within that wallet. That's obviously the one you want to keep secret. You never share that no matter what. That's pretty self explanatory.

The second one, and the one that's name often confuses people, is it's the private view key. So the private view key is really, in essence, the same as an XPUB in Bitcoin, where anyone with your private view key can derive and see transactions coming to any address within your wallet.

So they can't see spend transactions technically.

There are some interesting research that's shown that you can essentially figure out the spend transactions. You can guess correctly about 95% of the time if you have the private view key. So you should be aware of that. That's something that will be fixed in the upcoming update with Carrot, which is a new addressing scheme.

But for right now, that private view key shows all incoming transactions and lets you drive addresses for that wallet. Now that's the one that you would use for BTCPay

or to just have a view only wallet. That's what is necessary for doing something like Cupcake or any of your hardware wallets that work with Monero. What they're doing is they're sharing that private view key with the software wallet, and that's what allows you to actually,

to actually see transactions coming in without having the private spend key. So there's only two you would actually normally, like, use in the way you think of keys. The other two are the ones that just make up your Monero addresses. So every Monero address is made up of two public keys. One is a public spin key.

One is a public view key. Those ones you never are, like, actually looking at or using. Those are just the ones that are used to create and derive new addresses every time you need to have a Monero address. That's why the addresses are so long. Alright. Well, that that's pretty simple and clear then.

One for most people, two for anyone who's running BTCPay or something similar to that, and you can separate separate things out in accounts. I think in terms of keys, that's really actually more simple than I was making out in my head. It's just,

I think that Bitcoin legacy, like, panic sometimes sits sits in, like, can it really be that simple? But it sounds like it is. It's really the naming too that's, like, super confusing. And it I always, like, catch myself when I say the words private Vue key. Because when you see private and key

Mhmm. Like, it feels like I should never share this. And most of the time, you shouldn't share your private view key because it does allow whoever has that to undo the majority of your privacy.

But there are legitimate reasons why you would share that, whereas there's never any reason you would share the private spin key unless you want someone else to be able to spend your money, which not a lot of not a lot of cases for that. So I think a lot of the confusion really is from that language of using that private view key.

I understand why because you don't wanna share it all the time, but it it makes it feel a little bit excessively dangerous when you're talking about it. Yeah. Definitely. Okay. Well, thank you, mate. That answers that question.

The other question I had just from the other day when we were going through your Lightning stuff, I just wondered, have you seen any uptick in the amount of swaps between Monero and Lightning?

And just like Monero and Bitcoin more broadly. Because as you were going through it, I could see myself using that as a service more now that there's Lightning integration than I would have if it was just Bitcoin, especially with speed

where I might say, like, ah, I need a little bit of Monero. I need to pay for such and such. Or I need a little bit of Lightning. I need to, you know, pay for our BTCPay hosting or something like that. And I don't have enough in a wallet, so I'm just gonna quickly do a swap. I personally feel like I'd be more inclined to

swap between the two because it seems so fast and simple. Is that something that other people are finding as well? And if it is, do you think that that creates more flows into Monero and, like, between the two of them? Because we've always said, like, from the beginning is they work so well together

that I don't understand why there's not more of a in and outflow between the two. Do you think that this unlocks it a little bit? Yeah. I think it it will make it a lot simpler, especially for the like, using Monero for spending

concept that I've talked about over the years, like this idea of saving in Bitcoin, spending in Monero whenever possible. That just gets way easier when you can swap from Lightning to Monero in, like, thirty seconds. It's just it's much more like you can actually do it when you realize you need more Monero to be able to spend from.

Now, again, you shouldn't immediately pay from Lightning to a Monero address if you can help it because then the the swap provider will at least know who's being paid and the amount they've thankfully, due to Lightning's goods and their privacy, they won't know much about you, but you do wanna limit that.

But I definitely do see that having an impact and making that easier to actually live out. I don't have specific numbers yet on

what that's meant in terms of swap volume or, like, how many Lightning swaps we've had yet. That's definitely something I'm gonna chase down with the providers after we have, like, a full month under our belt of this deployed so we can see see what that trend is looking like. Because I'm really curious. It it really is

outside of the EVM space, which can have similarly fast swaps. It's just a totally different user experience than on chain Bitcoin swaps are. And for those of us who are more like Bitcoin and Monero guys with a little bit of EVM on the side, which I am and I know many people are,

you're used to just the lengthy swap process of Bitcoin to Monero on chain and just knowing it's gonna take thirty plus minutes often depending on how long confirmations take to get that swap to go through. Whereas with Lightning, you're talking thirty seconds and the Monero is confirming in your wallet.

So I definitely think that that will that will change things a lot, make it much easier for people to do that. Because the only way that was really achievable before like, technically, you could swap Lightning to Monero.

There were a few providers that did that, but you were having to, like, make sure you had the right amount in channels. You were having to make sure you had the right outbound liquidity. You had to deal with just all the normal Lightning stuff.

And you don't need to deal with that anymore, so you could just send in Bitcoin on chain into Spark whenever you're ready and roll with it once that's confirmed, or you can just receive money directly into Lightning and then be able to swap that into Monero. So it will make it much simpler.

I'm curious to see what the swap volume will be like, but I do expect that, especially that Lightning to Monero path to be one that continues to grow in volume. Yeah. Yeah. Just as you were doing the demo, I was like, I could see myself using that more, and I can't be the only one.

So I think fitting since we're just talking about keys, we'll just start with some general updates. One of the things that has been making really good progress is Carrot, which is the new addressing scheme for Monero that will come with FC and P plus plus.

Technically, it doesn't need a hard fork, but it fits best with FC and P plus plus, and it's a good time to just push all of the wallets in the Mineral space to migrate to using Carrot. But the beautiful thing is just like FCP plus plus, it is backwards compatible. So your your old addresses won't stop working.

They just won't have the improvements that Carrot brings. Primarily, Carrot fixes a couple of bugs and potential attacks that came with how subaddresses worked in the past, ones that normally don't affect people but could be a problem in very specific circumstances.

It also brings forward secrecy. So even if quantum computers broke the way that elliptic curves work within Monero, they wouldn't be able to reveal

transaction details to the world, thanks to a change that comes with Carrot and f FCNP plus plus as well. The most interesting change and the one that will affect things the most for people is that I just explained that we have right now just one key that you can share to let someone else see transactions in a wallet without spending

it. And that's the private view key, which technically only reveals incoming transactions. But in reality, because of the way change addresses work, you can see, like, 95% of spins as well with a private view key today, which is a problem. I mean, if if I if I only want my,

like, private view key to be used for people to to validate donations that I receive, but I don't want them to see where I spend those donations. I need a different way to do that. So Carrot introduces essentially three new tiers of

view key for Monero. And it's gonna sound a little complex at first. Obviously, within within a UI, within something like Cake Wallet, we'll make this dead simple for you to understand which one to use when.

But there's essentially now three tiers of view key. One is just a view key that you can use purely for generating addresses. It can't see anything about transactions. It has no idea if this address was ever used to actually receive funds.

It just can generate addresses. So, like, this is something you could use for BTCPay, or you could use actually, no. This would be one that you would use generally for, like, a point of sale terminal, for,

let's say, like, a a waiter in a restaurant to be able to generate addresses, but not actually be able to see the transactions that are coming in themselves. That one will be useful. I think the next much more useful one will be what's called the payment validator key. Basically, you can verify

incoming payments, but you cannot see outgoing transactions. You cannot see payments to change addresses. You only see those incoming payments. So this is what you want for BPP pay. I was just gonna say. Yeah. Yeah. This this will be perfect for that so that you're you're reducing what's revealed.

That anybody who gets that that payment validator key can never see sent payments, so they'll never know when you spend those funds you receive. And if they know that you've received funds to these separate addresses, they'll never be able to see when those were then sent out somewhere else,

but it's just as easy to share and use as the view keys today. So that's essentially, like, fixing today's level of view keys. Mhmm. But the It's a pretty big deal. It it is. It is. It is. Yeah. It it it fixes a key problem that I think a lot of people didn't realize,

but doesn't really make it it doesn't make it harder for something like a BTCPay to to work at all. So that will be a really, really good improvement. The third one and the one that's really useful, especially for hardware wallets and things like Cupcake, is a a full view only tier. So this is a view key that can see all

incoming and outgoing transactions completely Mhmm. Which, again, you you probably wouldn't wanna share that as, like, letting someone validate donation payments or BTCPay. But if you're talking, I want my cake wallet or my feather wallet or something like that to be able to actually properly see all transactions

without me having to connect my hardware wallet to it and validate payments on the hardware wallet in real time as I sync, Now you can have a perfect, correct wallet balance that lists all incoming and outgoing transactions without any issues,

and you don't have to connect your hardware wallet to actually scan and see if you received any funds or see if you've sent any funds. So that is a really big improvement for the hardware wallet space and will greatly help the the user experience of hardware wallets.

So those are all going to be, like, really important improvements to the way addresses work in Monero. That's really interesting, actually. Just those little changes. It sounds small until you really think about it, and then, actually,

that's huge. And so you're saying that roles all everything with Kara is gonna come in at the same time as FCMP plus plus.

It is. Yeah. It is. And the the kind of the the big update and the reason why I bring it up is that Carrot itself just went through an audit by the the amazing folks at CypherStack who make stack valid and have a fantastic research team. They audited Carrot.

It passed the audit with just minor things that needed to be improved. So that's kind of the last major step before it can be deployed. So Karot is is pretty much ready to go. I know there's gonna be some implementation stuff and slight changes between now and then, but,

that's a huge step forward for Karot specifically so that we have that ready to roll for the upgrade that hopefully won't be too far off. And then similarly with FCP plus plus,

essentially, the majority of the initial work is done. So pull requests, the, like, change requests for all of the major features for FCP plus plus are now open. So we have active real code that we want to deploy for all of these. And what that allows now is that we can have a multistage audit by one or multiple

auditing companies to come in and actually check the code to make sure that it implements cryptography correctly, to double check the cryptography cryptography itself, essentially, to make sure that everything is done correctly. Because whenever you're making a change like this, it's quite a sweeping change.

You wanna make sure that that nothing got messed up, that no mistakes were made in that process,

and just that there's no more optimizations we can make as well. Like, a lot of people just think about audits as just something that checks for security issues. And while that is the primary use case, a lot of times, things that can also be found in audits are,

oh, you're doing it this way, but you could actually do it this way, and that'll give you 5% faster, transaction signing, or that'll make transactions a little bit smaller because you're duplicating this field or things like that where you can end up, also improving the efficiency of something.

But, primarily, it's gonna gonna let us double check to make sure everything that is securely and properly implemented so there's no unforeseen issues after everything goes live.

But, obviously, a lot of the initial issues have already been caught in the the really good testing that everyone's been doing on f c FCP plus plus so far in the stress net. So that's the that next big step.

Once the audits are done, then we'll we'll be very close to being ready for, an actual release and getting this out there in the wild. Obviously, you never exactly know, but have you got a rough timeline for this?

I did not think it would take this long already, and I I I don't want to give people false promises. I mean, my, like, realistic estimate would be early next year. Okay. Like, February.

You wouldn't wanna do it right before Christmas or Thanksgiving anyways. Normally, you'd avoid that just so you have Yeah. All hands on deck when something happens and for the month or so afterwards.

And I'm just not sure we'll get all of the audits funded and done and then anything fixed in time. And we're we're mid March now. Realistically, you'd wanna deploy in, like, August or September to get plenty of time before the holidays and everything.

So, yeah, my kind of realistic estimate would be the beginning of next year. But the people actually working on it may have different things in mind, but they they probably are not gonna give you an estimate either because devs Yeah. Devs understand estimates are dangerous They almost almost never happen. So,

I mean, optimistically later this year, but I I wouldn't I wouldn't expect it until early next year. But we are getting much, much closer now. Like, getting audits actually underway is a a huge step forward and takes it out of the kind of theory this will be cool zone to we're almost there. Okay. So maybe a.

Yeah. Yeah. I would hope a little less. Maybe something like January, February next year. Okay. That's reasonable. It's you know, rather do it properly than than rush these things anyway. So Yeah. It's a it's a huge it's a huge update and a lot of changes, so I definitely don't wanna there's no reason to rush it right now.

So I wanna make sure that it's done right. Cool. Okay. Two more quick updates that aren't kinda regular software updates but have to do with software. One is that p two pool, which is that decentralized mining software for Monero.

That has been released on TrueNAS, which is a really common self hosting tool that people use out there, especially for doing storage itself, but then being able to host things on that storage.

It's really common, and being able to deploy p two pool much more easily within TrueNAS just makes easier for people to be be able to run the software. So not like an earth shattering update or anything, but making

all of these pieces of software easier to deploy means that there's gonna be a lot more adoption of those. And a related one is an awesome Monero community member. Sir Jams A Lot has released something called Monero Super Brain on Umbral.

I haven't been able to test this. I don't have an Umbral myself. But, essentially, what he's done is he's made an Umbral app and his own app store because it's not in the normal Umbral app store. He's made an Umbral app called Superbrain.

There's Superpay as well, but I haven't dug into that one yet. But Superbrain specifically

helps you to set up p two pool, XMRIG, XMRIG proxy, and a dashboard for actually being able to see all of your miners, to see the earnings that you have, to manage all of your miners, which is especially useful if you have a bunch of different computers at home,

whether you're just mining on idle hardware, like you have laptops and desktops that you wanna mine on when you're in a museum, or whether you have some servers that you're actually mining on with idle compute or something like that.

Instead of setting all of these separate pieces up yourself and having to figure out how to connect them together and then not having a way to easily monitor them, he's packaged it all together in one really nice interface.

So it looks really fantastic. Like I said, I I don't have an umbrella, so I haven't actually been able to watch it to to test it myself. But it looks like a fantastic tool. And, again, that just makes it, like, way,

way easier for people to get started mining Monero. And one of the best parts of Monero is that anyone can mine it, but oftentimes, it's been kind of restricted to who's technically

savvy enough to do so. But this other tools like Goopax make it much, much easier to actually get started mining Monero today. So that's a really cool one. I'll be following the progress on that

and curious to see how it continues to grow, but that's a a big step forward to make it a lot easier. Yeah. It's interesting that it's like Bitcoin mining has become so simple that anyone can do it, but you need specialized hardware. Whereas with Monero,

maybe until now, thanks to jams a lot, but anyone could do it because they have the hardware because everyone has a computer pretty much or, like, access to something. You don't need specialized hardware, but it was more technically difficult.

Yeah. And this, I think, would be something more for if you have multiple devices that you want to mine on and you want a central hub to mine too.

So if you're, like, if you're just mining on one desktop that you have or something, something like Goopax, which we'll talk about a big update to that later, something like Goopax would be a better fit because it's built for just doing I want this one device to mine. Something like Superbrain is built for you to have

a single p two pull instance, a single XMRIG and XMRIG proxy instance, and a single dashboard that can connect together all of your different miners. And then on each of those miners, you don't have to do all the config there.

You just start up something. You just start up XMRIG. You point it to your Superbrain install. It will handle sending all the work to the miners. It'll do that. It's essentially kind of like running your own Monero mining pool, but easier and decentralized.

So it simplifies that when you do have multiple miners. If you do have one, it's probably not the best solution for you. It would work. You could still do it, but primarily, it's gonna be something where you wanna point other miners to it and not have to run multiple p two pool instances.

Very cool. Okay. Well, let's, let's jump into the software updates for this month. So a big one, and we chatted about this on Freedom Tech Friday, like you said last week, but I'll touch more on the Monero specific stuff. So Cakewallet, we launched version six, which, no lie, we have been working on for probably a year, because

it includes a completely new user interface, new screens, new look, new themes from the ground up. Every screen is new and different and much better looking, much easier to use, much more intuitive. Every flow has been redone from the ground up. It is a massive, massive overhaul.

That in and of itself is fantastic. Like, I it's hard to look back at what cake while it used to look like. And I don't think cake was ugly before, but it was very simplistic, and there were a lot of, like, kind of just just pain points in how it worked and how it looked that made it more difficult for users.

And we were able to to fix all of those and to make it much more just beautiful to look at. So version six has been awesome just to see us get out there. Honestly, the bigger thing for me, though, when it comes to Monero is that we completely changed how you interact with Monero accounts

in version six. So I know we talked about accounts a little bit earlier in the show,

but previously, how we did accounts in kCool, it was there there was this, like, drop down button, and then you would just see a list of accounts, and you could swap back and forth. But there was no way to see the balance of different accounts at a glance. Switching between them was not super intuitive,

and you couldn't name them or anything like that. It was just it was very rudimentary. It worked, but it was very rudimentary. Now we've used this kind of, stack of credit card look system on our dashboard,

so that anytime you want, you can tap the icon that's by the name of your wallet on your home screen. You can see all of your accounts at a glance,

see their balance, but you can add accounts very easily there. When you add that account, you get to name it whatever you want. You get to pick the card, the icon, the color, theme it, however you want to make it much easier for you to to quickly see all of your different accounts, understand what they are at a glance.

And just with a tap, you can switch between them, see the transaction history for each, see the balance of all of them at the same time on the home screen.

It's just a much better approach. And I think, for me, finally, it makes me feel able to use Monero accounts in a way that is straightforward and doesn't kinda cause cause more pain than it's worth.

So that has been a huge improvement, and I'm excited to see more people use and adopt Monero accounts instead of creating a ton of different Monero wallets, which is what I had honestly done. It's just I had multiple Monero wallets because the accounts just didn't work quite the way that I wanted them to.

So that that has been a big change there as well.

The other thing I like is you've now got all of the, the payments, like, received and sent underneath. Like, I think before you had to, like, swipe to the right and then Yeah. Then you'd see them and also, like, for swaps and stuff. It's just you look at one screen now and it's like, there's the card.

You got swap, receive, send, and all your transactions. And it's just you just sort of have everything that you would possibly need right at your fingertips without swiping and fiddling around, which is much nicer.

It is. And you would be shocked how many people thought that Cakewallet did not let you see your transaction history. Yeah. I could see that. I see you could swipe over. Yep. It's just not even something that had crossed my mind, but over the past, like, six months, we've gotten multiple people reach out to support,

who either need to find their transaction details and can't figure out how, or they reach out and just have literally no clue that it exists. And they just thought you just couldn't see transaction history, and that was part of how Cakewell worked, which is painful. I'm sorry to to anybody

that that happened with, before that because it was definitely that was a UI issue.

Once you swiped over to it, I think it was pretty clear, but there was not good discoverability there. So that is a huge improvement here is you just immediately see your most recent transactions on screen all the time, and you can obviously just swipe down to see the rest. Yeah. It's a it's a it's a massive improvement overall.

And we we've also finally introduced the new monero.com logo as well. So for those that aren't aware, we have a a Monero only version of Cake Wallet,

and that one had a very old logo for a long time, and we finally updated it. We've actually had the logo for, like, ten months, but we were we were aiming to redo the monero.com website and other things beforehand, but we just decided it was it was time, new UI, gotta get the new logo out there.

So if you're updating monero.com and you see a new logo, don't freak out. We didn't steal your money. It's just a nice finding new logo. Very nice. Yeah. Very, very clean. I'm starting to use it more and more, especially now that it's more usable for everything and you've got Lightning. I am starting to merge into

not one wallet. It's not like one wallet to rule them all for me because I have other uses and sort of separate personal out from business and stuff like that. But the amount of wallets that I'm using is,

growing smaller and smaller at this stage. We'll have to get you there. Gotta figure out what it is. What's what's it gonna take for you to uninstall all of your other, crypto apps, your Bitcoin apps? I don't know that I'd ever get rid of Sparrow.

Mhmm. Mhmm. It's just too and I know it's a different thing because it's on desktop. We'll talk we'll talk about that later this year. We'll see. Alright. I'm very tied to it, but we'll see. If if anyone can do it, I think it'd be cake. But, yeah, I mean, a lot of the other stuff,

specifically now with Lightning where I had so many different Lightning wallets for different things and fucking around with stuff and, you know, I probably had five or six different Lightning wallets that I was using.

That really can probably come down to two at this stage. So that's quite nice. What's your other main one? I'm just kinda curious what you think you'll keep around. At the moment, I just have the one that I run for everything to do with ungovernable.

So I have just our own node, and it runs is it c lightning, I think? And I just have that set up, and I just it works, and so I've used it forever. And you'll need that one for key send and all the more, like, technically complex lightning stuff. So that makes sense. Yeah. Exactly. But, you know, all the other stuff,

you know, I used Phoenix. What else did I have? I've got, obviously, the fountain one that's, like, inbuilt. What have I got? I've got another one set up for Primal that isn't the fountain one. So it's all just a bit of a mess. It's always been, like, Zeus I had, but I had lots of funds when nodes have gone down,

not being able to access it. Just just lots and lots of issues where I think that one's finally being retired. What else have I had? Every I'd I'd tried everything. But, yeah, like I say, it probably can come down to two now.

Yeah. No. I definitely I definitely understand that, especially with your specific use case. Those those are just things we're not gonna we're not gonna solve for at Cake, running the things you need to run your own node for for the show, for podcasting two two point o, that sort of stuff. But,

yeah, that's the goal. I finally I finally limited down my Bitcoin wallets to one, So it's it's been been my goal and my, my secret secret target here. I'll be in the both cases. I can fix all of the things that I don't like about the wallets I use and slowly merge them into one.

We'll keep it or else.

Also on the wallet update front, Monero Joe, which is another awesome Monero only, wallet, they just do fantastic stuff. I love a lot of their, like, art style as well. Andres, who's their UI guy and,

does a lot of the marketing stuff for them, he just has really cool style. I love I love what he does. He's actually the one who made my profile picture and, bio and everything for my my social media years and years ago, also for my podcast. But they

they have been showing off a new version, and they're calling it m two of their Monero on the Wallet, Monero Joe.

And the the biggest highlight for me, there's a lot of cool stuff in there. Definitely go take a look at it. They have their own, like, website for you to test it out before they push it on the regular beta channels, but I think probably by the time you're listening to this, it'll be out on regular beta channels.

The thing that I really love about it the most, they have some really cool new merchant specific features. One of them is one that sounds weird until you think about how people use these things, but when you hit the receive button,

it actually flips the screen upside down so that when you show your phone to the the person across the counter from you, you don't have to turn around the phone and flip things around and try to get it the right way, but you just turn the phone over, like, turn the top to the bottom,

and it will show all the details in the right orientation for the person who's paying you. It's hard to describe without showing nice. But if you if you if you if actually, like, use this in person, it's one of those little things that's not complex technically,

but it's just a really good UI improvement for merchants who wanna accept them narrow directly. And to pair with that, they added a feature where when you're on that receive screen and you receive the payment, it'll tell you on the receive screen that you've received it,

and it will it will mark that as paid and rotate to the next address directly.

So you don't have to go out of the receive screen to your transaction history, check to see if you received it, and then go all the way back in. But just shows you right then payment received, good to go, and lets you move on with your life. So, again, just, like, some some

what seem like small quality of of life improvements, but are things that really add up, especially for people being able to accept Monero directly as merchants without having to run something like BTCPay, etcetera.

Now, obviously, if you're running a web store or something like that, you wouldn't you wouldn't use this. But for those kind of in person use cases, really cool stuff from them, and and love seeing others in the Monero space continue to to iterate and come out with with cool new features, cool new approaches,

and keep moving Monero forward. Very cool. Yeah. Another another Monero wallet actually, that has been out for a few months now, we've talked about it before on the show, but it's called Skylight.

It's from the folks at Magic Grants, which is a nonprofit that's been building and funding, people in the Monero space. They released Skylight a while ago. Essentially, it's a a modernized version of My Monero in that it

gives your view key over to a remote server. No. No. They don't run their own remote server. You have to run your own or find someone that someone else is running in the community that you trust.

But it gives over that private view key. So reminder, that means they can see all of your incoming and the vast majority of your outgoing transactions. But it gives you an instant sync experience. So it feels like a Bitcoin wallet in terms of sync experience by giving up that privacy, and then has all the other normal Monero functions.

So it's it's a good thing to have in the ecosystem. It's open source. The update for for today, and the reason I'm mentioning it, is that they're they're properly available on iOS now,

which may not sound like a big deal, but getting any kind of Bitcoin or Monero wallet officially published and approved on iOS is not easy these days. Those of us who have been in the App Store for a long time have a bit of a,

an advantage because it's a lot harder for them to remove an existing app than it is to just deny new ones on arbitrary things. So I'm I'm glad to see that they got into the iOS App Store so more people can can check it out, give it a try, and see if it's something that they do want to use.

Nice. Next up is Goopax, and we talked about this a lot on the show, about multiple versions of Goopax as well. There's been, like, a Goopax x x and, not safe for work Goopax and all all the different versions.

What's it? Not safe for work Goopax? There's one with two x's. There's one with three x's. I lost track. So Oh, okay. Three x is one that screamed screamed like a step too far. Okay. No. But the the the original GoopX with one x just released version 2.o, and I think they they basically merged with

the other main one that was being updated and are working together now, which, thank goodness, that makes the most sense. So now you have one version of gupax, g u p a x. Version two merges everything that was upstream that hadn't been backboarded into the original goopax,

and essentially can just become, like, the version that everyone uses. So just easier for everybody. You don't have keep up with which one should I be using. Don't worry about the other ones. Now you just use goopax.

Version two is out now with a bunch of changes and improvements, and they'll all be working together to continue improving and iterating on that as they go. So just easier to follow now. Very cool.

Yep. Yep. And then two more quick ones. One is Bitcart, which is a essentially a lighter weight payment processor to BTCPay. I have not tried it myself, but I've heard very good things. And it it supports a lot of cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin as well, of course, Ethereum, others. But they've had Monero support as well for a very long time,

and they've had a few updates over the past month. So nothing, like, critical in the update for people to know, but just calling attention to the fact that there is an alternative to BTCPay.

Both are open source. Both are something you self host. Both are completely free to use, but have different sets of trade offs. So definitely something to explore if you're thinking about setting up a web a store or something like that. You wanna accept Monero.

BTCPay is the one that I've used and like, but it can be a little heavy for simple use cases. And Bitcart is a a little bit more straightforward. So it's one definitely that's worth checking out, especially if you need just more basic functionality,

And you don't need all of the the crazy amount of features that BTCPay has baked in over the years. And last but not least, a new version of Monero, the Monero Daemon, Monero Wallet CLI, Monero GUI, the the official desktop wallet, all have been released.

Again, nothing major. This one's more important for people running nodes to to run and update to because it has some more improvements and fixes for, potential spine nodes on the network.

But just something to remind people, make sure you get keep your Monero d updated if you're running a node. If you're running it using Docker, it's really straightforward. All of my guides have always had auto updates as part of them, so you shouldn't have to do anything.

I updated my image already a a while before the show will go live. If you're running it manually, you'll have to make sure you update that. If you're running, like, it through the Monero GUI itself, just update the Monero GUI, and you'll get the latest Monero d under the hood. Just something to to keep up with, keep updated

bug fixes, good stuff like that, keeping things rolling along. But that is that's about all I got for this one. Okay. Well, let's jump into some of the messages on XMR chat and boosts. You were just talking about spy nodes. One of the questions that we had from the last Monero monthly from ex patriotic who sent 0.069 XMR, he said, Seth,

can you go over how to remove Monero spy nodes? Does it matter if you are only a private listening node and not actually publicly routing all economic activity? When it comes to Monero spy nodes, there's not there's not much you can do or should do for each specific one that gets discovered.

The really important thing to keep in mind is that there are ban lists that the Monero community keeps up. There's two basic two basic ways that these are distributed. One is through a

DNS entry that your node, you can just tell to call out to and get the latest updates. It will pull those every time it starts and periodically as it's running to make sure that it blocks any known,

spy nodes. That has just been updated, which is a huge deal because that means that any nodes who don't opt into the second delivery method are getting the majority of those spy nodes blocked.

So that one, you don't have to do anything for other than enable it.

And in, like, all my guides, in most guides you'll find online, it's enabled because there's there's almost no downsides unless that DNS was poisoned and started blocking good nodes, and there could be problems there. But that's that's run and maintained by core members of the Monero team.

So should be good, but worst case, you can disable it with a single flag. Not a huge deal. The second method of delivery is there is a a ban list that's run essentially by the Monero research lab, by people who help to contribute to Monero.

It's maintained in GitHub. Multiple people, PGP check. They check, and then they PGP sign and verify each set of spy node changes to the list to make sure that no one person can add something in maliciously.

And that is distributed just via a file in GitHub that you can download. I have baked that into my Docker image

for a very long time since that was first announced, and I first made sure that it was legit and multiple people that I know personally were were signing and verifying it. I baked that into my Docker image. So out of the box, you'll get that ban list done as well. If you're running Monero in Docker.

I think everyone who's running Monero in Docker is using my image pretty much, so you should have that out of the gate. But if not, there's very simple instructions on the list on how to actually do that. And, essentially, it just requires you to download that list and then pass that file that you downloaded

into your Monero d via a single flag. So it's very straightforward. Easiest way is just run the Docker image that I make because you get it out of the box, and you don't have to do anything extra. But both of those will essentially block all of the spy nodes and are regularly updated to make sure that any new

spy nodes that come online are blocked. Specifically, those will block buckets of IP addresses that are known to be reused for spy nodes so that we're not just trying to play whack a mole with individual IP addresses, which can change frequently.

But there's whole ASNs that are sets of IP addresses that we know are generally just used for malicious spy nodes. So those are blocked as well. Okay. As far as the, like, private listening node thing, there's not really a point to do that

because you wouldn't get any benefit if you weren't actually relaying transactions with your Monero node. You'd have to relay them somewhere else, and then you'd have to be connected to a different node anyways when you actually go to send transactions.

Next question came in from I'mmodesthagler. I'm modest haggler, I think. 0.01 XMR. If Spark drags their feet on implementing blind signing and or blinded amounts, would it be possible for Cake to do it themselves, or does Cake need their cooperation?

If their cooperation is needed and they refuse, what's the next viable step to do it? So this is obviously from from our last episode when we were Mhmm. Going through Lightning and Cake on Freedom Tech Friday, but it's coming in Monero, so I think we should probably try and answer it. Yeah.

No. We can we can quickly answer it. For context, if you haven't most seen Freedom Tech Friday, which you you're missing out. If you're not, it's a Living under a rock. Show every week. You you are truly living under a rock.

But if you have missed out on that, the reason this came up is because Cake Wallet just launched lightning support using the Spark network under the hood. I am not going to get into the details of how Spark works.

But if you want to, we've done that on several different shows over the past few months in the the incomparable misfit clan. But here, specifically, he's talking about ways that you can have better privacy within Spark that are technically possible.

One that has been done in the past with state chains, which is called blind signing, which means that the actual state chain operators themselves don't see the details of transactions that they sign.

Only the sender and recipient see those transactions. So that gives I don't I won't wanna say ecash like because it's not quite to that level, but it gives drastically improved privacy because the state chain operators themselves can't reveal your transaction information to the world. They can't publish on a blockchain explorer.

It's just a really good cryptographic prove cryptographically cryptographically provable way that you have better privacy from the operators themselves. So that would be huge. That has been done in MercuryLayer, which is another staging implementation in the past. That was intentionally not done in Spark.

I am continuing to push them for that. I'm actually gonna be chatting with one of their team later today to continue pushing them to implement that because that would solve essentially all of the privacy problems in Spark and make an extremely powerful privacy tool. Mhmm.

But the one that they have committed to, and the other one mentioned here, is blinded amounts, which is it's exactly what it sounds like, just like in Monero, where when you send a payment, no one except the sender and receiver can see the amount of the transaction. That is going to be done in Spark.

So they've already committed to that. I don't have a firm timeline for when that's gonna be done, probably over the next couple of months, but that is going to be done within the Spark, entity that we are using right now, which is run by multiple people, at the moment. So

could Cake do this ourselves? Absolutely. So one of the beautiful things with Spark, one of the reasons that I really like it, is it's an open protocol. It is not something that is restricted or proprietary.

We could start our own Spark entity and get a group of people together to act as Spark operators, and we could do blind signing. It is definitely possible. It is complex both from a technical standpoint,

industry coordination standpoint, because you have to get a bunch of different companies or entities working together. They have to run good infrastructure. You need to find a good Lightning service provider to to handle the Lightning payment side. It is definitely possible. And my hope would be that if Spark

goes crazy or something or they never open any of the privacy, or they they do try to steal funds or if something crazy happens, the beautiful thing of an open protocol is that someone else can just step in and launch tomorrow,

and take all of the business away from any Spark entity that does something wrong or doesn't follow through on their word. So that is definitely a huge benefit of that open protocol. The other one is that there is the the kind of the flip side of this approach, which is ARC, which is a different open protocol.

There's two different implementations being built out that could do similar things to what Spark does today, and those really do act as a hedge to the Spark that we have today. So, again, if Spark went crazy or something went wrong or they made privacy worse or whatever, if something happened like that,

because it's an open protocol and because you can exit on chain whenever you want and because you can make payments over Lightning, we could even help our users to transition to something like Arc if that happened.

So there's there's a lot of options there. Obviously, the ideal will be that we'll push Spark, the current instance, to continue doing these things, both because we want it in Cake, but also because we want every wallet that starts using Spark, which there are a lot, including Wallet of Satoshi,

we want them all to get the best privacy possible. I don't really care about this being, like, a marketing edge for Cake Wallet. I would much prefer that every user who uses Spark, no matter the wallet, gets very strong privacy.

Just how I'd love that any Monero user, no matter what Monero wallet they get, they use, gets very strong privacy. I want that to happen in Spark too. So we will keep pushing using all the leverage we have,

using our our user demands, all that to to push Spark to do the right thing and keep iterating on privacy here. Very good. Field is required. Send 005 And,

is field just required their name, or do they require to fill that field and they haven't? I think it's a cheeky way to fill the field because I don't think you could send it otherwise. But I think the field says field is required,

and so they just copy and paste it. Field is required and put it back in. I like that. That's a NIM. It's a NIM right there. Cheeky, cheeky one, aren't you? Well, Phil just required sent some XMR. They had no message.

No question, but we appreciate you. Thank you. World Reign sent 2200 22 sats. Great shows with Ricardo. It's good to hear stories from the early days, especially as the Bitcoin mission has got lost in the Wall Street bullshit.

Yeah. Couldn't agree with you more, mate. That was I think that may it may be my favorite show we've ever done, especially because we had two shows back to back. Yeah. It was me, you, and Q, and Ricardo.

And it was just, like, I could tell you were so interested hearing things that you hadn't heard when you're normally up and all this kind of stuff. That was nice. And,

yeah, the fact that Ricardo was very much still interested in Bitcoin and Monero and everything else. It just I don't know. It had a it had a really, really cool feel to it, so probably my favorite show ever.

Yeah. I could definitely see that. It was it was a blast getting to hear. I mean, like you said, there's just especially in, like, Monero, there's just not many new things. So it's cool getting to hear new stories with people that I know but hadn't heard before, in there.

So what if I have to do some more some more live shows like that, get some more guests on and and have a have a blast. Definitely. Yeah. Thank you, Walderin. Eldorado, 1,138 sats. Bitcoin should Bitcoin should have a similar no talk about price rule among the community.

I think that that ship has sailed El Dorado, I'm afraid. It would be nice. I mean, we kind of have it here. I think maybe we'll mention price once every two or three months usually jokingly,

like, tongue in cheek kind of way. But other than that, there is no Bitcoin price talk. So I I guess just stay around the ungovernables. That's the only thing I can say there, mate. Riven Stokes, just a thumbs up and 500¢.

Thank you, Riven Stokes. I don't think we have any other messages.

I think we've covered all the topics unless there's anything else, Seth. I think that's it for this month. Like we like we just said, I I think we'll we'll do some more live shows. I have to get some notes out on that soon. If anybody has any guests that they would love to see come on the show, definitely drop us a line.

I'd love to hear who y'all wanna see us talk to. But no, no, it's been a good one. Yeah. Definitely let us know if you want someone to come on live or there's a project that's of particular interest.

As long as it's not scammy, then let us know. I'd like to do some more of that. But until then, we will catch you on the next Monero monthly ish. We'll keep it loose, and we'll speak to you then. Cheers, Seth.

See you. Thank you for listening to Monero monthly. To everyone who boosted, sent XMR chat messages, asked questions, shared episodes with friends and family, and participated in the show.

We appreciate you all. Make sure to join Seth and Max next month for more Monero talk, news, and software updates. Thanks to Cake Wallet, Foundation, and my Nimbox for keeping Ungovernable Misfits going.

Please show them some love and check them out if you haven't already. Make sure to check out ungovernablemisfits.com to see mister Crown's web design skills. Listen to the other shows in the feed to hear Caron's world class editing skills.

Thanks to x patriotic for keeping us up to date with Boost's XMR chats and sending in topics. Thanks to John for being everyone's favorite dad, pioneer, miner, and for continuing to grow the Meshtadel.

Finally, a big thanks to the unsung hero, our Canadian overlord Jordan, for trying to keep the ungovernable in check and for the endless work he puts in behind the scenes. We love you all.

Stay ungovernable.