Hearts On Fire

Good morning, John. Good morning, Max. I'm sorry for wasting so much of your precious time this morning. It's okay. I like it. We are recording the PMM show today. Oh, that's good to know. I never know. Yeah. You just kinda jump on it. What are we doing? This is what we're doing.

Well, they're currently sporadic. I don't know about notes and that kind of stuff, and I like it. I actually prefer it, but I just don't know until I know. Like, what show are you doing today? I don't know. We'll find out.

Yeah. You and I are very different in our preparation. You prefer no preparation. Yeah. My preparation is to not be prepared. Mhmm. Because it's more natural that way. Yeah. I don't know. We've done a lot of natural shows this year. We have. And listening back, we don't really get into

deep depth sometimes on a topic. And I like deep. I like deep. Real deep. Oh, yeah, baby. So deep. Yeah. Put her ass to sleep.

The show was originally designed to bring together I think this was my vision of the PMM show is to bring together all of the different Ungovernable Misfits nodes. Two of them that are important to me are the, Pleb Miner Mafia

and the Mesh Jadel. I'm deeply involved in those social groups. So I thought, why instead of just doing the mining show together, why don't we do a Mesh Jadell show together? But many people in that Mesh Jadell community are also in the Pled Miner Mafia community.

So let's combine all of these things that are important to us, all of these topics that are important to us, the discussions that we have in our chat rooms, the people that we have, the things that they are doing, let's feature that. That was my original idea for the PMM shows.

And then they just really went all over the place throughout the past couple of years as to the topics that we're going to cover. You know, we're talking about the periodic table and frequency, health, self defense, community, circular economy stuff. We've really been all over the place over the past couple of years of EMM.

They're the sorts of conversations that happen in the mesh to Dell. Yeah. Which you don't really see in many other Bitcoin adjacent groups, do you? You

don't. Which is why going forward, I'd like to get some input from the audience as to where you want this show to go. What do you want Max and I to talk about? I have ideas constantly. Max, I know you have ideas constantly.

You know, we have plenty of shows on Ungovernmental Misfits where we talk about Bitcoin. And I think keeping it a Bitcoin really limits us, which is why on the PMM show, I've almost purposefully not spoken about Bitcoin. It can be an anchor.

It's almost like the pleb anchor is that we have to include a particular monetary tool in everything that we talk about. And that's silly. Well, yeah. But it's a basic tool at this point. Once you get through the sort of excitement of, that's how that works. And oh, that's why this is here. Once

you just like, oh, this does this thing just like a hammer does like, oh, I need my hammer to pick

that up. That's what I'm going to use. It's the same thing. Oh, I I have a little bit of money. Where am I gonna store my value? Oh, I'm gonna do it here. This is how I run a note. This is how I do this. It's like, it's done. It's done to death. Mhmm. So it is a sovereign

tool that we can use, but this one of many, many, many. And actually day to day for most people, it's less important and less useful other than I'm just parking some funds here. That's all it really is for most people most of the time. I don't want to go on too much talking about what it is.

Like I said, I want to move not move on, but just on the PMM shows in particular, be unleashed, really. There's so many things. And you and I, our personal conversations are a great example of that. We go all over the place with the things that we talk about personally.

It's not like you call me up in the middle of the day and say, Oh, mate, I want to talk about Bitcoin. Never fucking happened. No, it does not. It's normally a broken conversation with extremely bad signal

between the two of us going, oh, fucking hell, I can't stand this shit. Fuck's sake. And then ends up being voice notes. Yep. To try and get information across. Yeah. That's us. That's pretty much better. I

had a local event here in in my time. It was at our small business incubator for the county here. I went through that program last year to run a small business. I don't know how to run a small business. And so they offered a free program where they took like 10 candidates and run you through this class.

At the end, they gave a grant from the county or from some big corporation. I don't know where they get the money from for this grant, but they do it like every month. Jack Dorsey, probably. Jack Dorsey. Yeah. It's a local visit to the college or something like that here.

I didn't win. And I think I didn't win is because people were just like, oh, this guy's fine. He doesn't need this. He doesn't need this grant. Yeah. They end up giving it to some girl who was opening up a nail salon, like an eighteen year For fuck's sake. No, I'm glad she got it. She needed that. What was $5 going to do for me?

Couple loads of gravel. You know what I mean? I know you, man. So much money. Anyhow, the point is that I would go through this program and people, wanted to talk about the Gas Wall project and the Bitcoin mining project, but then they'd be like, I but I still don't understand the Bitcoins.

I said, Okay, why don't I, like, do something in the future where I explain the Bitcoins? You guys all keep constantly asking me, Now, what's the Bitcoin? And I would tell them, well, now what the Bitcoin is.

And so I finally have the time. We're okay. I'm a little bit freed up now, not constantly building. I'm not, you know, at the well till 09:00 at night. So we organized a little local event. This was the first local bitcoin thing that I have ever done. I've never even gone to the Pittsburgh meetup, which there really isn't one.

It's just a bunch of dorks that go to like dinner.

It's not quite like Cleveland or Columbus or Philly or, you know, Central PA or nothing like the Michigan meetup. Same Pittsburgh is like it's the pits, man. It is the pits. Yeah, I've been approached many times. Why don't you organize a Pittsburgh meetup? I don't know. I don't know any of these people.

I know more people from The Netherlands in Bitcoin than I do in Pittsburgh, whatever that means to you. So we organized something. I said, Why don't I have fundamentals come out and give a little presentation about his book, The Bitcoin for Institutions, a book that he's recently written.

Maybe you should put a link in the show notes of how you can get it on Zeus. Like, there's a Zeus pay way to get it digitally or just go on Amazon and order the physical book and support your local mesh to deli. So fundamentals drives out five hours. I think it is to get from there to here and picks up our friend Shadrach

on the way and we give the presentation. I'd say 25, 30 people showed up, which is pretty good for this kind of thing. They were college students there, people from the local

business community. There was a guy named Rick Newton, who's in in a city, like, 10 miles away, a little podunk place. He showed up, guy named Mike Hatch, who I was on his podcast a while ago, like like high functioning people, not just a bunch of nerds showing up. I thought it was really cool. And I've given my presentation.

I kind of look out in the audience and there's fundamentals. There's Shadrach. There's my buddy, Mike Hatch. There's this Rick Newton guy. There were a couple other, like, small business development people. There were kids from the college.

And I thought to myself, man, in the mesh today alone, we have really built an incredible community of, like, functioning people. What I wanted to do was give a quick presentation and then there were so many like high functioning people there that came that somebody could interact with fundamentals

and talk about the Bitcoins and ask him what the Bitcoin is. Like, I wow, it's really incredible. The people that have converged on the mesh to Dell and I want to talk more about those people. What is this person doing? What is Shadrach doing?

Not to have Shadrach on the show, but it's like, I'm gonna give you a Shadrach update. Shadrach is built A to B, and it's this way to Meshtadel mule goods and services all throughout the world. Just to keep reminding people all of the incredible projects that all the Meshtadelians are working. Was he built?

He's built like a snail mill for Plebs. Is that right? Yeah. He's working on it. Because Solex always talks about that. Yeah. Solexporter. Solexporter. Yeah. So Solex and Shadrach, you know, I know they have. Well, Shadrach went to visit Solex

not that long ago, so they brainstormed a lot of this stuff. I'm sure the best interview that I have heard of Shadrach is on the Sound Coffee podcast with Otis Bitmire and Fundamentals.

So he was recently on that and he goes over his whole a to b thing. So just listen to that. Oh, okay. Have a listen. You'd like it. I know you're not a big podcast listener. That Sound Coffee episode is definitely worth your time. Okay. I've listened to one in nearly a year. I listened to the one with Business Cat and Kerem.

That was on Rock Paper Bitcoin? Yep. They were the one that I listened to. It was good. Good job. Yeah.

Meaning to say that I think this show can be a great bridge from

the digital to the physical. We've always said this on the show. Don't just have these ideas that you play around with and wax nostalgic about all of these different theories and ideas that you have. If you're not putting it into action, I almost don't want to hear your fucking theories anymore.

Yeah, I know what you mean. It's like the guy that's always like, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I've got this thing I'm gonna do. And then I've got another idea and I've got another idea. You're like, will you just shut the fuck up and just do a thing? I just wanna see one thing that you Then tell me afterward. Yeah.

You start it and you stop telling everyone about it and you continue with it and you still don't tell anyone about it. And then you actually complete it or get it into a state where it's working and maintain it. And then you can talk about it because

that is extremely rare. And then once I see that from someone and I go, oh, you've actually done a thing and you completed the thing. Now I have some respect for you. You

kept saying to me all summer, oh, you know, we should like document what you're doing and the steps that you've taken to build the gas well. And and I was like, no. Because if this doesn't fucking work, then what a a goddamn embarrassment.

I wouldn't be able to take it. I'll tell you when it's done. Yeah. But I knew that it would happen, so I was willing to spend the time on it. You know, I I appreciate that. But I get it. I know what you mean.

You know, what I wanna do is to get past all this, what if we did I remember our early Mesh Dell calls and Mesh Dell conversations, and they were great, they were really broad and all over the place. What can be when?

And it was so much of this in the Bitcoin community, but I think you can pull this out to every other social movement that's ever happened. You get in this phase of what can be and what's the utopia. Let's create utopia. Let's create these citadels. What happens when we reach a million dollar Bitcoin? I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna

it's never happening for most of you. It's time to get your head out of the clouds. And where my head is all the time is on societal collapse. I don't want to talk about societal collapse all the time because it might not happen. I don't want everybody to be black pilled.

You don't have to like be as that's what's on your mind most of the time. You should probably ask number one child. She she just said that to me the other day. She's like, dude, I get it. Okay? Can we, like Like, can you shut the fuck up now? Yes. She said, not everything has to be a history lesson, dad.

You know, because I'm quant well, actually, this comes from don't you know that the Fabian socialists in late eighteen hundred started this and that started the women's rights movement, and the women's rights movement is why you I was just kinda talking about getting a new pair of pants.

I can't imagine how dull it would be being your child. She's very patient with me. She just let me talk to me like, okay, you know, getting back, can I spend the night at my friend's house?

Yeah. Getting back to forty five minutes ago where I asked you a simple yes, no question. Can we actually continue that? Yeah. It doesn't all have to be like, hey,

if you're doing something in the real world to harden yourself against societal collapse, Tell me about it. Well, if societal collapse does happen, I would say you're quite well positioned.

The thing with all of that societal collapse stuff, and we went into it quite a lot with the shows with Kerem and everything boils down to, could it be

this problem? Could it be this natural disaster? Could it be some fucking, I don't know, virus? Could it whatever it is, like whether it's a natural disaster, whether it's a man made disaster, whatever.

Basically, it's be prepared and have you can make some simple changes to your life where you don't have to go 100% down the road. Like you don't have to have a bunker and the gas masks and all the stuff. But if like simple stuff, like I've spent a lot of my bitcoin on tools, just like good quality tools that should last a long time.

Every type of socket set, everything like basically if there's anything that needs to be fixed or built or sorted, pretty much not not 100%, but pretty much I'm getting to a stage where I'm like, yeah, I can do that. And so to me, I'm like, okay, world collapses.

The plumbing's fucked at the house. Oh, shit. Well, what are we gonna do now? Oh, well, I'll learn to fix it then. Or solo isn't working or whatever. I need firewood. Okay. Well, I get the chainsaw out like things like that where, okay, worst case or best case is you don't have the societal collapse.

The tools are still useful for just DIY and fixing stuff and projects and whatever. But in the worst case, where there's been a massive flood and everything's fucked and you need to rebuild everything, tools are going to be pretty useful. Those are the types of things that I like to focus on is like things where I'm not

making a change that isn't already useful in my life, or like having a pantry full of food. Yeah. Well, worst case, the kids are being absolute fucking assholes. We can't get out the house. We can't go and do the shop that we're supposed to do. It's like, right. Well, you are gonna be having tinned tuna and dried pasta

with a sauce because that is what we have in the pantry. Well, I'll that. You're not gonna go and get something else because we're not going out of the house now because you're a prick, but we have food and so it's not a problem.

So again, it's like, well, worst case is we have the food if we need to, I think they're the sort of practical things. I think sometimes you can go a bit far with changing your entire life or pouring your entire life savings into a bunker where

I think in most cases that's not that useful. Like, yeah, okay, if there's like nuclear war, then maybe. But then I would question whether most bunkers that most people would build in their properties would actually stand up to the job anyway.

So it's like finding that middle ground and that balance, isn't it? Sure. You know, and this was a big craze in the fifties and sixties. I know in The UK and The United States was the bunker building thing.

You know, hence that fallout video game is kind of modeled aesthetically in a fifties, sixties type of aesthetic. And so what are all these bunkers now? You know, what was the investment to dig this thing in your backyard? Well, for years, just people used it as a pantry and storage area.

And what could you have done with that money at that time instead of doing that? So all about balance. So perhaps if we just pull stories from everybody in our community and broadcast our community out. So this is one thing that I want to do with the show is to bring

more people in. I don't care if you are a gold bug, but you're into preparedness and community and all the things that we're speaking about on the PMM shows. I want to bring you in. If you think Bitcoin is the dumbest fucking thing in the world, great.

If you love Solana, you know, I don't care. What do you have to offer from your experience in being that? If you were a greasy mechanic,

greasy, you know, I would hope if you're a mechanic, I hope you're greasy at some point throughout the day. I want to bring you in. I'm going to bring in construction workers. I'm going to bring in somebody that lives in the wood. I want to bring in somebody that lives in an office high rise. I want this community to spread

because we're almost anchored and chained down by the Bitcoin thing. Mhmm. We've got a lot of other offerings on Ungovernable Misfits to do that. I mean, think about this. You mentioned tools. We could do a whole hour long show on what do you think is like your top 10 shit hits the fan tools to have on hand. That's

a great show. That's a really helpful show. Who is the best woodworker? Who's the best carpenter that we know? Who's the best fabricator that we know? Who's the best mechanic that we know?

And kind of survey them. What's your top 10 tools that must have in a shit hits the fan scenario? I don't think a lot of other shows can do that because they don't have the community and the participation that we have. And let's let's take advantage of that. Yeah, agreed.

I always want to document some of the stuff that I'm doing recently, but I can't because of doxing. You're so secretive. And it gets on my nerves sometimes. I'll be honest with you. Yeah. Well, it gets on my nerves as well. But it's like,

you know, when I first moved and then I was doing a couple of shows, I thought, oh, you know, I'm going to sit on the balcony here and just do a couple of shows. Then someone's like messaging me. Hey. I know where you are by the type of bird sound that is. And I can get your geolocation. I'm like, you cunts are too clever.

You fucking you're too smart. If I start doing a video, here's what I'm building. This is in my back garden. This is what I'm building. Yeah. Yeah. People are like, that's fucking cool. And they're like, hang on a minute. I can see that that Saturn's over there. And that means it's like, oh, hell.

So You but you've you've made it that way, that there's such a mystique about Max. I don't think there is, really. You know, like, nobody gives a fuck where I live. But you've got all the time. Like, nobody cares. Yeah.

But you've got all the guns. So well People are dumb. People are really dumb that they think that they could come up here and and not get shot. You know what I mean? I don't think the fact that I have guns is that much of a deterrent because people are so stupid. That's true. There's no mystique.

I'll give you that. Here's my tractor. Here's my garden. Here's my truck. Go away now. I'll give you that. Fair enough. You're boring. Yeah. But I keep doing stuff and going, I wish I could document this.

Wish there was a way to show this development of this thing, but I can't do it because video is too doxing and you can't like talk through you can't talk through technical, physical stuff in the real world that well.

It's not something you'd like listen to. You have to physically see the development of things like the visual change in things. So I wish I could do it. That'd be cool. Okay. What do you want? Where do you want this show to go? Yeah, I'd like to see people building

in the real world and then talk to those people. So like we had Joel on, that's a perfect example of like he's gone out, he's built something really fucking cool. He's still developing it, but it's like shit is getting done and it's someone who's extremely knowledgeable about a certain subject,

like a Ben Gunn who's been on in lots of different ways. Like when it comes to timber, very knowledgeable, runs a successful business doing it, keeps developing and building on taking traditional ways of doing things and then trying to improve it with technology,

which is a nice link into like a lot of the nerdy shit that we talk about in the Bitcoin space. You know, what he's doing is he's saying, right, I want to get a retiring timber framer who is extremely good at what he does, but he does everything manually and sit and learn from him for a year

of how he's doing things and then try and find a way to speed things up and improve things. And so he's then saying, Okay, could it work if we CNC'd this part rather than you doing it with a chisel?

And I take the measurements with this laser that basically maps out and puts into CAD this joint to this joint. And he's showing him back and forth with someone who really knows their shit and seeing if you can improve and speed things up.

And it has, you know, and it means investing in a huge like 25 foot CNC machine to do it. But you take a job that would take three weeks and you take it down to literally just the fitting. It's like scan,

press a button right now you're ready to fit rather than the three weeks of actually sitting with a chisel. So things like that I really like. It's like using technology to

still build stuff in the real world. I don't think this is a show I really want to hear about. I've built this app or I've built this bit of code that does this thing like great, really useful stuff. But that's something I'll cover with Q or with Seth or something like, yeah, I want real world building out businesses,

physical stuff, connections with other people is like perfect mix. You know, it's like this person from the mesh to Dell, who's a carpenter, has met up with this person who's a miner to design something, things like that. That's personally what I would be particularly interested in. The Ps and the Ms on that show could be physical,

manual, mechanic. Mhmm. We like real world stuff. Another real world thing that you and I have been talking about, and I spoke to my buddy Aaron Hall at length about through many conversations

with Aaron Hall, if you remember Aaron from Bifrost Manufacturing, we've spoken about him quite a bit on the show. Good buddy of mine. He's a proper geezer. When we talk about geezer. He's proper geezer. Yeah. He's probably ten years younger than me, but he's a proper geezer somehow. People need to have money.

You have to have money. We often do this. I have to cut cut my nose off to spite my face when it comes to like building. I have to make it open source. I have to lose money. I can't make a profit on it. That's a very defeatist attitude.

Sure. If you wanna make please don't get all fucking up in arms about the free and open source shit. Okay? Great. Whatever. But that being, like, your main focus, it almost comes down to I have to lose money on this. Otherwise, I'm doing something immoral if I don't like barely succeed

or building a product that people love and I sell it to them and I become wealthy as a result makes me a bad person. No, it gives you the tools to do even more. And it is almost like a defeatist cuck attitude in this community. And I want to tell the stories of people who have really achieved at business, who have become successful.

And achieved at scale. Sorry to bug you. But I was just gonna say, like, you can do really cool shit without a lot of money. You can. You can have that scrappy nature. You can, you know, oh, I need to build this thing. I'll find a way that I can get pallets off the side of the road to build this thing.

And, you know, like you're talking about with getting the free oil and you can go and collect that and you can do all this stuff and like you can go from like having nothing to building something.

But to do things at scale and to do things really exactly how you need to be doing them to make it the best it can be. You do need money. You do need to have some funds and you don't have to be ashamed of doing that because at the end of the day, then you can look back and go, oh, I built something really fucking good.

Mhmm. That's the difference. I think part of that defeatist attitude is well, you're going to have to then exist within the system in order to do that. And I'm not doing I'm not taking grant money from somebody. I'm not taking a loan from the evil Jew banks.

I'm not paying taxes to the man. Guys, calm the fuck down. Okay? Because you're probably not going to be able to really achieve something at scale without kind of existing within the system. Yeah. In and out. Your heart doesn't have to be in it in the system. Your soul doesn't have to be in the system,

but there is a way to navigate within that system. And I think people like Aaron Hall can be on the show and us to do long form podcast with him or maybe a series of podcasts of how you kind of exist within the system,

how you build businesses and spin them up. If you think you've got nothing to learn from a guy that started out with a small crypto mining venture

and built it into Sundog mining to where they've I don't even know how many megawatts of of mining assets they have. But for him to scale beyond that and say, well, these aren't just mining assets, these are energy assets.

And what I have, the agreements with the energy company and the sites and everything that can be scaled well beyond Bitcoin mining.

And, okay, I've been successful in that. And now I want to create a manufacturing company and start off with some basic manufacturing stuff and a lot of three d printers and scale that into a broad manufacturing company. And whatever he does, he's gonna spin up something great and something bigger, and there's a lot to learn from him.

And often in this pleb anchored world, people would not like the way that he's gone about in business. They would have some kind of problem. Remember I called you, like, really excited about three months ago, four months ago? And I had an idea for a new show to do non Bitcoin side, like the fiat side of being ungovernable.

And I can't remember exactly how I framed it. Yes, I remember the conversation very well. This actually stems from that. Was telling Aaron all about that. Yeah, that is something maybe I don't need to go into too much detail on this show, but there is this idea of you learn to be ungovernable in different aspects of your life.

So you can be ungovernable when it comes to Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies and running a VPN and using Tor and blah blah blah blah blah, you know, that's one part of your life. And if you get good at that, it's really useful. But to ignore the fear side is quite stupid because the people who write the laws

are the people who do the rich person shit. They're the people who they pay their taxes, but practically fuck all because they do it in a legal way.

They're not hiding under a rock and being scared their whole life and having panic attacks every time they get an envelope through from the tax authority and all this sort of stuff, because they're using the system that they've created

to their advantage. And I think that's something that especially people who have been around for a little bit of time, who are starting to build businesses, are starting to grow as an individual. If you have families, etcetera, you need to pay school fees, you need to do shit. Why not learn

just like you learned the Bitcoin system? Learn the fiat system because it's not going anywhere, at least for our lifetimes.

And rather than getting crushed by it, fucked by it, use it to your advantage. And that's something that someone like an Aaron Hall knows a shit, knows how to get and navigate around it. A Ben Gan as well, very good at this kind of stuff. Learning from these people can make or break your life Like, it really can.

And untapped growth as well. Mhmm. Because he's spoken about this on our show numerous times and elsewhere, that one of the reasons why he picked Oklahoma is because he thought the local and regional and state governments would be sympathetic to what he's doing and helpful.

And part of that was engagement with those governments. And I remember at that time, you know, him saying, you know, oh, we now have somebody in our relative community who has access to the governor of Oklahoma

and people being like, oh, you know, you're talking to the government. You don't want to be outright adversarial to them if you don't have to. Why not convince them to be under sub? Well, they're all two wings of the same bird and they're all controlled by the globalist. Okay,

to to a degree. Sure. But there are ways to navigate within this and just putting yourself up as a tiny little sand castle bulwark against a tidal wave coming in probably isn't going to do it. Be like water. It's like Bruce Lee said, the ways to be like water.

Be an ungovernable water.

Write this one down. I I try to have one good quote a show. Be like water. Be like water. Don't be like sandcastle.

Did he say that? Don't be like sandcastle. No. I said it. John Lee. Oh, you said it. John Lee. Fuck Bruce. Be like water. Don't be like sandcastle. Aren't you Lee? I always struggle to find you on signal. You're like, are you Lee?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm on signal. Yes. What am I? Let's go. Let's see. Oh, that's it. Yeah. Let's go. Somebody came to that local meetup thing and was like, told you it wasn't Asian because this LinkedIn guy's picture. You've seen the meme. It says Les, l e s g o h.

Yeah. Let's go. Let's go. Because I don't like signal. Yeah. Know. You're never on that. So I hardly use it. So I obviously forgot until somebody said, oh, you're Asian. Am I not Asian? You better check. You better check yourself before you wreck yourself homeboy.

Who said I am not Asian? There's something Asian about you.

Somewhere there's some sort of link to Asian culture. I lived in Japan for a year. There we go. I told you. I can sniff I it on told you. You've done been told, homeboy. And on next year's shows there would be a lot more racist impressions.

Yes, you do need that. People love it. They love a racist impression.

You love a bit of racism. You know what's sad, though, is people like my impressions and voices, but a lot of the audience doesn't realize that you have a lot of skill for impressions and voices. You just like, you're so sparing about it. You gotta be in the mood. Do you know what I was watching with the kids yesterday?

I can't remember what it was called now. Some cartoon thing or some like animation thing about like a lizard that lives in a school and he like learns from the class each year and I can't remember what it's called, I'll message it to you later. But his voice is exactly

the same as fat Subway Sandwich Man. Oh, really? It's exactly the same. I was I meant to record it, my phone wasn't to hand, like, kids all over the place. I was like, I'll send you a clip later. It is exactly I was like, is John doing the voice for this show?

Time to learn your ABC, kids. Okay. A is for apple crisps. B is for baloney. Oh, yes. Old fat lizard with that exact voice. It's brilliant. Old Fat Lizard. That's a great name for a show.

Or a band, Old Fat Lizard. Yeah. Daddy, can we watch Old Fat Lizard?

It's called something else. It has a name, but it is an Old Fat Lizard. No one has a name. Okay. A lot more voices. Mhmm. I think we've proven the point here where we've been with the PMM show and where we want it to go. Yeah. There will also be plenty more of the things that you love about PMM Charles Muriel articles.

I think the show this last year has leaned really heavily on Charles Muriel articles outside of, you know, having Solix

write an article Solix. I don't have a lot of show prep. I've been busy this summer. Can I just read your article for the show? Sure. Charles Muriel. Hey, man. You got anything going on with the an article or something? Can I get one of them? Can I can I get one of them articles?

Some of the best. I like that, though, because it's people in our groups who are associated and affiliated with us and have pretty fucking amazing articles to put out. You know, that one from Solex was great. Yeah. Again, it's like an article

about someone who's in our group meeting someone else who's in our groups and learning about what they're doing. And that's what we're talking about with this show. It's like Mhmm. He's gone to go and see someone

who's doing a thing. Yep. Like, are you doing a thing? Yeah, yeah, it's a pretty good thing. Okay, let me come and see it then. And so if anyone is doing a thing and it's a good thing, then we want to know about it. And that's where we want to take the show. That would be cool.

Either you're doing a thing and it's currently running and growing or you've done a thing and you've got some advice from doing that thing. Yeah. Either one. I don't want to know about I've got this idea and I'm going to do a thing. You can fuck off. Don't want to talk to us later. Yeah. Yeah. Don't fuck off.

Just fuck off for a bit and then come back. You can do that within the Mesh Dell. You can do that on a Mesh Dell call. You can do that in our Telegram group. You can do that in our Signal group. You can do that when you go to your local meetup and stuff is work out and brainstorm

your ideas and then gather the people and the ideas and the physical elements that you need to make that happen.

Then once you've got that all figured out, we're going to have you on the show. We're going to talk to you about how you built that and what other people can do and the lessons that they can learn. But we don't want to hear about your potential citadel anymore. I'm over it.

Here's a little bit of advice from me is and I've only really learned this recently,

so I'm not like trying to drop old man wisdom, but it's something that's massively changed the way that I do things is I used to, my brain works in this way that I have 10 plates spinning, 20 plates spinning, oh this idea, that idea, can do that, blah blah blah blah blah. And I'd be chasing all this different stuff all the time.

Exhausting and B, you never get anything done properly. Sometimes will over the course of a five year period, a few of those things will land and like they will work themselves out and they interlink in different ways. There's some sort of chaos creates some interesting things at times. But recently I just focus on one or two things. I'll

do the show and then I'll take on one project. Like at the moment, I'm taking out 10 doors

and then putting glass into those doors and having to cut all of that myself and use router bits and get everything wet, glazing everything, which like it's quite when you haven't done something like that before, it takes a lot of thought because there's so many ways to fuck it up. And if you fuck it up, you're done. There's

no margin for error. So what I would have done previously is I'd have been doing that, but also doing three other projects. There'd be tools everywhere. And while I'm waiting for the glass to be ordered and not to be delivered, I'll just jump into another thing. No,

I've seen it. I've seen it throughout the years. A lot of times that's when you are at your best. You're like super high about stuff at that time. Oh, man, I'm gonna I'm gonna do this. I got this. I'm I'm I'm delivering today and I'm gonna go pick up this T shirt printing thing and I'm gonna get it back.

I'm gonna study everything there is a no about screen printing and our end. You know that all you do is talk about screen printing for two months. Yes. You know, I get everything. We're gonna make all of our stuff.

I don't know. It didn't work out, mate. Yeah. If you were crazy about screen printing. Yes. For like three months. I still would love to do it. But I think my point is that if you focus on one thing or two maximum, you throw everything that you have mentally and physically and time wise at those things until

either it works and it's done or it works and it's done and you want to continue.

Because sometimes you do it and it's done and you go, yeah, I'm actually bored of this now. Yes, it works, but I'm bored of this now. Or there's a more interesting thing that I can continue with, so I'm not going to do this anymore. Or a more profitable thing.

Like, boy, that was a lot of work and it was cool and it was fun, but I am now poor for having done it. Yes. So that's my point is do it until

either you can't go any further because you perfected it. You don't want to go any further because it's not profitable. It's not fun. There's something more interesting or it just completely fucking fails. And it was a shit idea from the start. But at least you've learned lessons along the way.

But do not stop halfway to jump on to the next thing, to tell someone about the next thing, to maybe do something else. That is a massive trap. It's easy because it's like you get to a hard bit of one thing and then you want to jump. You go, oh, there's new shiny, exciting thing.

So I'm going to chase after that butterfly now because it's easy to think and get all excited about it. And what happens is you're just the cunt in your garden chasing butterflies for the rest of your life until you die.

Don't be that cunt. That's my point. Clip that one. Yeah. That's a great one. Don't be the cunt chasing butterflies. Yeah. There's a t shirt in that, Solex. Oh, sure.

He's just the guy for it too. He is. Honey bad gear. Honey Bad Gear. Was that a website? The Honey Bad Gear? I don't know if he's got a website yet. He does because my daughter's on the front of it. I just don't know what Oh, really? She Yeah.

She's like modeling. You know, just the back. Honey baggier. Bedgier. It's only one R, I think. He makes it moneygier. We'll have to Solex, please, if your website is ready to be viewed by other people, maybe he just sent it to me like, Oh, put the number two on there.

So we had a Machadell call the other day and he was like fired up talking about something and he rolled an R that must have lasted like two, three seconds. So he was fired up.

Like a purring cat. Yeah. I was muted at the time when I was going to say something. He was on a roll. I didn't want to he was on a roll. I didn't want to stop him. He sounds like a little bit like a V twins firing up.

Okay. Sounds about right. We have some sponsors still. Mhmm. Number one, altairtech.io. That's where you get everything there is when it comes to mining. New machines, little home heating machines from Kinan Averon. You like the Averon Q? You like the Averon little mini?

Nanosphere. Mine did the bitcoins. They're the people that you go to if you're one or two things of focus is mining. If you actually take that seriously and you really want to excel and you really want to be efficient and you don't want to be scratching around for parts and being let down with deliveries

and not being able to get what you need and dealing with someone who's going to call you back or message you back but doesn't. If you just want, oh, I want this stuff to work, that's where you go. Mhmm. That's why they're a sponsor. They're also a Messagedale sponsor because the owner, Avril, is also a permaculture guy.

I think Avril has told me this, that he is one of the largest dealers of rabbit manure in the country. Yep. Have I told you this before? Well, no, he told me we're on the same call. Oh, Okay. Yeah. Rabbit manure. He's a permaculturalist.

Yeah. His wife's family is into the agriculture business. This is my point with the Meshadol show is we have so many people that are so much more than their online Bitcoin NIMs and so much experience that they wouldn't normally share with somebody on Twitter. Well, because he's on his altertech.io

account. Hey. I'm doing a giveaway for an Avalon Nano or a Bidax or something like that. This is his Bitcoin facing side, but there's so much more to that person. We know so many people like that. Their forward facing NIM is this narrow view of who they are, and they have so much more to offer you in a personal relationship,

that they have a huge network that faces outside of that Bitcoin pleb anchor thing. And we can share those stories with them. But at the same time, this guy also sells all Bitcoin mining related thingamajigs, from $8,000 machines to a 35¢ screw and everything in between. That's altairetech.io, promo code: Uncomfortable.

Additionally, Lake Satoshi. I haven't been on the Lake Satoshi chat. If anybody that listens to the PMM show knows that that community side of Lake Satoshi and the Michigan meetup scene is integral to the Meshtadel and very integral to this show.

And last summer, we had set up our Meshtet Hill up there at Lake Satoshi overlooking the pavilion and the lake with hundreds and hundreds of freedom and sovereignty and community and, yes, also Bitcoin people communing with one another, playing in the lake, kids playing,

making great food, sitting by the campfire, playing guitar well into the night, singing, having great times. Really, I think for a lot of people in the Meschodel, that was the highlight of their year. I don't know when the meetup is in this August, probably, but put it on your calendar.

And when we get a firm date, make arrangements to get up there. However you do it. It's like this show and the Meshtadel chat coming to life. That's how I see it. I've not been, but from every story and all the conversations and stuff, it's like familiar faces

and names and that community spirit and like it's jumps out of a telegram chat and out of the headphones that you're listening to this pod on and into real life with real connections. And that's really cool. And finally, I'm hoping to have number one, I'm hoping to have more money next year.

Be nice, wouldn't it? Tell me how you work that out. I'd like it as well. More more money and time next year. Something that is kind of fallen off was the mesh economy. We had the mesh economy box last year. It included Otis Bittmeyer coffee. It included EV and Park candle

and some ungovernable misfit sticker. And my intention with that was like, boom, I'm gonna do eight of these,

ship them off. Everybody's gonna buy them real quick. I lost money on every single one. Shipping is expensive, but that's why it was a limited run. Here, let me get these products into your hands. Please talk about the products. It's the ungovernable way, mate.

Yes, it sure is. Let's sell some stuff that loses money, but it does raise awareness for things and people and projects. Let's do that. So we have already determined, Max, that ungovernable misfits is not going to make us rich. No. It could make us very poor if you put enough time into it. That's what it can do. But

There's seven forms of capital, isn't there, though? Yeah, that's right. Or eight. That's where you were going to go. It makes us financially poor. Poor. Like homeless levels of poor. But it's the connections.

And they genuinely like they're priceless. They actually are priceless, especially if you lean into it and you use the connections and you help each other. You're not finding people with these skills anywhere else. Damn straight. Who have similar values. Yeah. Not always the same, like we disagree with some things and whatever, but

90% of it's there. 90% is like, look after your family, look after the people who are around you and do shit properly. And there are some real serious do shit properly people in our groups. There are people who, if I had a major problem in certain areas,

I know I can make a phone call and speak to a proper expert on it who is gonna know their shit more than anyone else that I could go to on a high street or someone

I could call off the Internet who's supposedly a professional, just completely different caliber of person. And that is invaluable. I'm gonna ramp it up. Since Ungood old Misfits is not gonna be my path to riches. I know that I'd lose money in all of these ventures. I've built something

that is going to make enough money to where I can lose more money on Ungovernable Misfits stuff because that's important to me. That's fine. It is

fine. It's more than fine. And one of the things that I desperately want to lose money on is the mesh economy stuff. I want to ship these boxes off to you guys. I want to talk about the producers.

The next one's coming up is going to be our friend Augie and Augie is a permaculture regenerative agriculture guy. I've been in the Meshadel for a very long time, high functioning member of the Meshadel. He makes a number of products, soap from lard deodorant.

We have a whole workup of his profile that we'll put on the mesh economy page, and there's going to be a new producer all the time. I'm really going to work hard on this because I want you guys to participate in the circular economy.

You're all doing Christmas shopping now. When you go out to the malls and the stores and you buy things like, I don't want to buy anybody any of this shit. Why would I gift them this for Christmas? This is junk. Yeah. This is meaningless shit

made by a giant faceless corporation who fucking hates me. Why would I give them money? And wants to kill you as well. And wants to kill you. And Augie wants to love you and hug you and feed you.

So we want to feature people like Augie every month. And I want to get these products into your hands and for you to go, wow, this is great. I now want to develop a personal relationship with Auggie and I want to tell all my friends and family about it who have nothing to fucking do with Bitcoin.

I want my friends and family to buy this guy's products. That's the anchor there with the circular economy stuff. And I might have a lot of people disagree with me,

but Otis only you can only go to his telegram or his signal group and order coffee and pay in Bitcoin. And I know Carl is the same way, but there may be a lot of producers that would be like, I don't care what I take.

I just want to be able to feed my family and I want to get these goods and services into your hands. And so I want to explore that a lot more. When you say I don't care what we take, we already take Bitcoin Monero lining.

You're talking about fiat as well? Sure. Take it. Gold, silver. I'd take some gold. Value for value exchange of goods and services. I would take gold if there was a way to build that into BTCPay and gold would just land in my pocket and be like, yeah. Bananas. I'll do that. Meat. Yeah.

Wow. I think they're working on it at the moment, but I don't think the project is finished yet. Well, keep an eye out.

Alright buddy, it's been a good year. It has. It's been a really unusual year for both of us with huge life changes. Yes. But the Meshtadel, it lives on. Because it isn't us, it's this huge thing. The Meshtadel has lived on, which doesn't surprise me at all. The Minor Mafia has lived on, which again doesn't surprise me at all. But

you and I have lived on, we're still here, and that actually does surprise me somewhat. We are still alive and still kicking, which is pretty amazing. Stronger than ever, brother. Oh, yeah.

So we'll come back stronger next year. Has been quite I think this has been my most weird year ever, I think, maybe. That's saying something. What about you? It's definitely a banner year in my life. I'm nearly half a A century.

A century, a half a century old. This was one of my most productive years. But you feel that you are more physically beaten now than when you were like doing your Marine Corps stuff?

Obviously, you're old now and you are young and fit. Yeah, obviously I'm old now and the Marine Corps stuff is, you know, it's kind of as extreme as you can get. Here's something that's funny that you said something about the physical because I was outside on the tractor and shoveling snow and it's fifteen degrees, 12 degrees Fahrenheit

yesterday. And I did that for hours and I took the kids to the mall and went shopping, come back and cleared more snow. Then I got my tractor on my trailer and towed that up to the well and then plowed all that and parked my tractor halfway up the road and went and got my truck and trailer and kind of skated down this

slope that I made and this very dangerous situation. Then I ran back up the hill

and it's like seven, 08:00 at night, and now I've been at all this stuff for fourteen hours. I ran up the hill, you know, in full bibs and jacket and everything. And I thought to myself, was really like a a Rocky four moment. Him Mhmm. Running in Russia. Celebrating up at the top. Yeah.

And no, you haven't seen Rocky. So stop acting like you have. It annoys me. Every time we talk about Rocky and I give you the wrong movie, you pause and you get angry and then you're like, don't let him get to you. You pause for a second and you're like, I know you haven't seen Rocky. Just shut the fuck up.

Yeah, please. Continue. He's in Russia. He's doing the separation on top of the stairs. Mother. Fucker. A fucking piece of shit. They played hearts on fire in in Rocky four for that that montage.

Hearts on fire, strong desire, rages deep within.

That. Very good. Get me started. I'm pumped up. I'm ready to get the fuck off this show and run, run, go to the gas wall and start running up the hill. Good. I'm running up the hill last night. I made a deal with God

and I was like, man, I feel good. Like this has been a tough day and 10 times I'm sore all the time and I'm going to be sore tomorrow, but I feel really, really good. So this past year, have I been put through it physically?

Yeah. Did I get in better shape because of it? No, no. I just more broken down. But I feel I feel good. I may not look good, but I feel good. It's achievements in the physical world have a different feeling because you can see change.

Whereas if you're in an office with spreadsheets and doing all the paperwork, fucking all that shit,

it often feels like you're not moving because there's another thing hits constantly. So you're just in this like churn of get these 10 tasks done, get these 10 tasks done, 10 tasks, 10 tasks, another lands and other lands. And you're still sat in the same chair in front of the same computer. And so visually nothing's changing.

Whereas in the real world, where like you're saying, like, whatever it is, you're putting gravel down and now this is level or, you know, you're digging a trench to lay something and do whatever it is, or me routing out these things and cutting out a load of panels. And there is a visual change so that when you go to bed, you can go, that

was fucking hard and I'm tired, but I did these things and now something that was nothing is or something that was fucked is unfucked. And that's something where you can then take pride in what you've done and then you feel good.

That's the difference. And I think that's why doing stuff in the physical world and also just like a bit of muscle soreness and stuff like, oh, fucking I've worked hard today. Pat on the back.

Pat on the back for me. Well done. No better feeling in the world than what you just described. Yeah. It's good.

It's good. If you aren't living like that currently and listening to this and considering it, stop considering it and actually do it. And once you start doing it, come and talk to us and tell us about what you're building. We wanna know. Go build something. We'll talk to you later.

Okay, mate. Alright, buddy. We pull the plug in 54321. Stay ungovernable.