3D printing, Bitcoin and gliding with @blackcoffeebtc

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.

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Now, what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison. Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.

Alright, you ungovernable misfits. I'm your host, Max. Everybody knows that Bitcoin is useless, worthless, and doomed to fail. But what if everyone's wrong? What if it's the system that is doomed to fail?

Join me as I speak to some of the brightest people in this space, and slither to the deepest, darkest depths of the Bitcoin rabbit hole.

Today's episode is with Black Coffee. It was really good to catch up with him again and hear a little bit about what he's been doing with crypto cloaks. He's running crypto cloaks Europe, and he seems to be really enjoying it.

It's awesome to see these guys working together, and it was also really good to hear about his work with Ellen Bitts. We also covered how he likes his coffee, gliding, and why I wear a gold chain, and drink from an orange koozie, while sitting on the toilet thinking about him and Rick.

Before we start, I just want to thank everyone who has been supporting the show. If you have been sharing, retweeting, sending to friends and family, giving feedback, and every other way that you've been supporting, thank you so much. It really does help.

I'd also like to thank my anonymous sponsor for sponsoring this show for six months, and paying for an ad read for me just to talk about Podcasting 2.0. Since I've been talking about it more, more and more of you are reaching out on the Podcasting 2.0 platforms, sending booths and streaming sats.

I really appreciate the interaction, and I really appreciate the sats. The great thing about Podcasting 2.0 is people don't have to sell out and chill shitty sponsors that they don't really believe in.

You can earn and send sats on fountain. If you want any help setting this up, you can reach out to me. It really is five minutes, and it's getting slipper by the day. It's a great way to play around with lightning, and I really do believe this could be the future.

I'd like to thank Foundation Devices for sponsoring this show, and also for giving two Foundation Devices passports a way for giveaways during the mining month. It's incredibly generous, and I can't wait to see who wins these.

If you're mining those lovely KYC free sats, you're gonna make sure that you keep them safe and secure. Foundation Devices are fully open source. They are beautifully designed and so simple to use.

If you haven't checked them out already, go to foundationdevices.com. If you'd like to buy one, you can use the code bit by bit, and you will get $10 off. And make sure to listen out for our pod coming up with Bitcoin Q&A and Lily.

And finally, thank you to FastBitcoins. They're a Bitcoin-only exchange that allows me to be open and honest about the trade-offs with KYC. They are the only company out there that I know of who would allow me to speak.

So frankly, about this and still want to support the show. They've got an incredible team, and they always push their users to get their sats off exchange. They do not want to hold them for you.

They put out incredible content. They are spreading at a rapid rate. And I have a massive amount of respect for the team. If you haven't checked them out already and you do decide you would like to use the KYC service, go to fastBitcoins.com and check them out today.

If you have any questions, you can reach out to me and I'll be honest about the trade-offs, or you can reach out to their team. Enjoy the show. - Morning, mate. Morning, how are you doing?

- Yeah, very good. Glad to see I'm not the only one with a desk, with a bomb site around it. - That's amazing, isn't it? Just dusting everywhere. (laughing) - I imagine you sat there doing really dev-y, cool things that I can only dream of, just in the little, don't know, what would you call it, a garage?

- Whole. No, this is, I'm in a co-working space, right? And it's just been, it's, the whole place being fitted out. And this is a little backroom, 'cause there's no meeting rooms available.

So I've just, I've ran into a backroom full of shit. Maybe at the desk and, yeah, this is where I am. - It did make me laugh. - There's fridges, there's sawdust everywhere, bits of wood. And if I'm happy, I've got a cup of tea.

- Yeah, mate. - Lovely. - Cup of tea, but the name Black Coffee, what's going on? - One coffee a day, Max. - That's the limit. - Really? - Yeah, I get a bit wacky in the jittery after more than that.

This is age as well. - Yes, well, you've got a few decades on me. (laughing) What are you on now, like the seventh, just hulking out in the middle? - I am now currently, I've had one cafeteria with five scoops of coffee.

Like, you know, it comes with a big tablespoon scoops, five scoops of that, a cafeteria. And I'm now on my second, which has got three scoops. So I'm sort of scaling down, that's this morning.

But yeah, it's way too much. I know it's too much, but just got loads of shit to get on with. - If I have, yeah, if I have two, I start getting a bit jittery. Three, I can sort of barely hold a conversation together.

Yeah, it really hits me, but I like a nice brew. You know, decent beans, well made. Yeah, it's good way to start the day. - What's your preference then? Let's get into some coffee here. - We're getting deep on coffee.

I like, so I've been drinking light roast Honduran beans in a decent got a wilfer grinder. Very nice grinder, it's like it's a flat burr grinder. And then if you've got time, getting it through like a ceramic V60 filter, you know.

Yeah. - Oh, okay. - It just didn't work, obviously. - So you're putting it through a filter, like a drip filter or something like that? - Yeah, it's a, I don't know if you've ever seen them.

Yeah, it's just a, it's a small drip filter. The ceramics, let's say using a plastic filter and you pour the water into it, it's gonna lose its heat, but what you do with a ceramic filter, you preheat it and because it's dense, it holds the heat and you get a better brew.

There's all these little tweaks. It's probably mostly a waste of time, but it's a nice little ritual to go through. - Yeah, there's something nice about that, that first morning coffee, because when the world can look bleak, anything, I've got a fucking mountain of stuff to do.

And then you just think, I really like boiling the kettle as well. I love just having that little minute of just like, 'cause I have a shit kettle as well, so it takes a little bit longer.

It's like, it's about a minute of just peace and there's nothing else really going on and you're like, I'm gonna boil this, then I'm gonna have my coffee. That's gonna be lovely. I'm gonna have a little bit more energy than I do now, and then I'm gonna tackle the day.

And that little, it's like a little Medisif state, like just waiting for that to brew. But I've not got as deep into it as you have with the ceramic and stuff like that. I'm just using a cafeteria, just like a French press at the moment.

Used to have a coffee machine, I fucked that off, I sold it about a year or so ago for Sats. - Good, good. - Yeah, which was good, and it was good timing as well, so I'm happy with that one.

And then I did buy like this nice posh, I can't remember what they're called, but it's like, it's a metal, it looks like an upside down egg cup sort of thing, and you'd put it on top of the hob, and water goes into the bottom, and the coffee goes into the top.

- Perky later? - No, probably, it's probably called a mock-up bomb. - Yeah, maybe, it like boils the water at the bottom, and then that steam goes up this tube, it overflows then into the coffee, and then it brews at the top, so it's something to do with it, like doesn't burn it because it's like the steam, and blah, blah, blah.

And it's really good, but I've lost it somewhere in storage, so it's not being used at the moment. - Oh yeah, they're fun little things to play around with. - Yeah, I mean, this is just another rabbit hole that I've fallen into, just nerding out on over everything I can, right?

(laughing) - I would, you'd probably say if you'd just be with a cafeteria. - Yeah, it's quite nice, I find like it's a stronger coffee as well, and then when I'm out and about, it's difficult to get such a good brew, like round here, it's shit, like if you go into like Bristol or places like that,

they've got all like their like cool little coffee shops, and they have like really good quality stuff, but round here, like about the best you get is a McDonald's, so I'm preferred to just make my own.

- Yeah, fair enough. - So that's the coffee updates, unless you got anything else to cover. - Meh, that's enough. - Right, cool. Well, so what I wanted to get into was a bit of 3D printing stuff, because I know obviously things have changed for you, so I wanted to get into that, and how things have been with crypto cloaks,

and yeah, just get into some of the 3D printing stuff, because it's not something I get to cover that often, and you really nerd out when it comes to it. - Yeah, the next rabbit hole. I don't know, everything's changed for me, right?

It's this last time we spoke. - Just a bit. - Yeah, so I was sort of running a web development company, I just had enough of it really, sort of done it for 20 or years. You know, not running a company, but web development, and I just got a bit sick of the constant grind, and you know, like a lot of jobs,

you start at the boss and you work your way up. I gots to put running this small dev company, and it was just absolutely killing me. So doing that at the same time, I was having a very young family, something I had to give, so I was just like, fuck it.

(laughs) I had enough, I had no plan. My plan was basically just to garden, like sit in the garden, sort of the veg beds out, do some DIY around the house, and that was gonna be it. And then, yeah, it sort of led into so much other stuff.

- So the web dev stuff, 'cause a lot of people who get involved in a Bitcoin think, right, I'm in Bitcoin now. I need to learn to code, I need to be a dev. That's what I did, I was like, oh, I need to be a dev, that's the only thing you can do, learn to code, and I did all these courses and stuff,

and like, sat for about six months fucking around, and I was like, oh, I'm gonna build websites, and then I realized like, a fucking idiot, I'm not very good at it, and there's so much stuff to remember, and I was just like, this actually isn't very fun, 'cause it's like, you have to remember so much different stuff, and I was thinking,

oh, this is gonna be really creative and artistic, and I was like, I guess it probably is at some level, but then I was thinking, maybe it is if you're doing your own stuff and you're really good at it, but probably not if you were gonna be working for clients, and then you're working for clients,

they're people, and people are really fucking annoying, and there's gonna be this middle ground where like, they have a vision in their head, and you sort of get your interpretation of what they want, and then there's this, always this gap in the middle where, you know, like, you just can't quite understand

what it is they want, they're not clear, and then things change and change and change, oh, can you just, you know, like, with anything that I've worked on, people always say, oh, can you just, and like, I can do it, but I can't just, don't just me, and say like, oh, can you just change this,

and think it's gonna be five minutes, 'cause it's days. I imagine that's what it's like working as a dev. - Yeah, I mean, the classic is, how easy is it to, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, but it's not, I think it just gets to the point, you start every project so enthusiastic, like, yeah.

So what I was never doing, I was never doing the design, like, sitting down with Photoshop and designing things, I can do it, I'm not amazing at it. So you, you know, a designer would design a site, and then you come down to the implementation, so front end, do a bit of front end, I saw I was mostly specializing in back end work.

Why was I going with this? - Yeah, so, you start the project very enthusiastic, like, this is gonna be so good, like, it's gonna do all this cool stuff, you start building it, you spend a few months on it, and then towards the end, you just sort of like, I just wanna get it done, and you just acquiesce on everything,

the client just says, oh yeah, can we just do that? And where I was, you know, early on, you'd be like, nah, I don't think that was a good idea, you'd have a back and forth, by the end of it, you just wanna get it done, you just like, yeah, whatever.

We can make it yellow and flash, and there can be text scrolling everywhere, it can say loading, yeah, it's a funny business, really. But it's like any business, the customer is king, 'cause they're paying your bills.

And you might not always agree with what they're doing, but you do it sometimes. - Yeah, as long as they pay for it, you're like, okay, that's fine, but yeah, it's frustrating, things like that, where it's just like, the constant changing, and yeah, I can just imagine it being a headache, so that's why I just, I mean, other than the fact

I was shit, the main reason I just packed it in, I was like, what's the point? I'm gonna learn how to build a website, and then I'm not gonna wanna work with anyone, 'cause I know I'm gonna get annoyed immediately.

So what's the point? I'll build myself a website once, or is it worth trying to learn to do all this, and am I ever gonna be good, 'cause I'm not practicing, I'm just building one? No, right, fuck this then.

And so I'm pleased, I put a nail in that coffin, but at the same time, presumably a lot of these skills that you have are transferable, and you know, useful in the Bitcoin world. Yeah, yeah, they totally are.

And it is a really enjoyable career, when you're doing the stuff that you enjoy doing, and you're not having to bother too much about clients, I guess, if that makes sense. And I think you know you're saying about finding it very difficult, because you're trying to remember all this stuff.

What I found is with anything new, whether you're learning whatever new framework, or whatever new language early on, and it's the same with Bitcoin stuff. And maybe this is what helps sort of get into the Bitcoin world, and learning all the tools, and the languages in that, is that it starts off really, really fucking hard.

And you're constantly like researching everything, how does this work, how does this work, how does this work? And the more you revisit that stuff, you're moving this stuff from your short to your long-term memory, and you can keep it in work.

And it gets to the point where you can get into a flow state in like 10, 15 minutes, and then you're just banging stuff out, and it feels good. That flow state is amazing. And I guess you probably do, you get into a similar sort of flow state when you're making your artwork, right?

- Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's been a long time, since I've had time to get into the studio, and do anything, I mean, years now, actually. But yes, and it's the best feeling, because the world melts away, all the other problems melt away, and you just, like you say, you get into this flow state,

and time just moves completely differently. And it's amazing. Like, it's such an incredible process, that creative process. It's almost like a meditation. That's what I find is nothing else matters.

- Exactly what I was gonna say, but it's very much like meditation I found. And whether it's programming, and there's other things I've done, like flying gliders is very similar. Because I think when you become good at something, and you can concentrate on it, like you say, everything just melts away,

and you're concentrating on that single task. That's like, sorry, I flew gliders for a few years. And that was one of the things I really enjoyed about that, is just being on your own, concentrating on something, and just disappearing into your own world.

Yeah, that's cool. So... - You can't fuck up when you're in a glider either. (laughing) - No, we can. You only get one chance of fucking up. - Yeah. Do you still do a bit of it, or is that for no time?

- Yeah, exactly that. It's very, very time-intensive. So it's all different in the US. You're probably gonna have listeners from the US, and Europe, and all around the world, right? In the US it's very different.

It's generally run as a commercial operation, so you'll turn up to an airfield. You'll pay some, you might have your own glider. You pay some money to, like, a towplane, and they'll take off, and you fly around for a bit.

You come down, put your glider away, and you dump the day. In the UK it's generally done as a club activity, so you'll be at the airfield. First thing in the morning, so 738, you're sort of expected to help around the airfield, so launching the other people's gliders, getting kit out, prepping, and then generally...

It's poor form to disappear before the end of the day, so you'll be sticking around 'til seven, eight o'clock at night, maybe even 10 o'clock at night in the summer. If you fly and cross country and you land out, it might be like, you land out in a field, 100 miles from home, someone's got to come and pick you up.

You might not be getting home 'til two or three o'clock in the morning. So, yeah, it's time intensive, and with work and family, it's just, yeah, these things don't mix too well. Maybe one day I'll go back to it, I think.

- If you landed around in a field and someone's got to pick you up, what do they do, just bring a trailer? - Yeah, so I don't know if you've ever seen them on the most way. These big, seven, eight meter long trailers, quite narrow, okay.

Basically, you rent up your mates at the gliding club. I landed, I fogged up, landed in a field, can you come and get me? They'll hitch up your trailer, drive out to the field, take the wings off the glider, pop it in the trailer and drive home.

That sounds very simple, but it never is. So, you land in a potato field and you're there for six hours trying to get the glider out of a potato field. For example, or someone doesn't bring, I don't know, like the right bit of kit for dismantling the glider, and then someone's got to go back, drive two hours back to get the bit of kit.

It's always, it's never straightforward. - How long can you be up in the air with these things? Like, can you slip, she's been the day out there, or? - Yeah, yeah, I mean, in theory, you can be up indefinitely, as long as you can fly in, there's different types of lift, there's ridge lift, there's thermal lift, there's wave lift.

I guess in theory, if you're in ridge lift, you can fly as long as there's ridge lift. It's pretty boring. - It's ridge lift. So, that'll be, oh yeah, the types of lift. That'll be where you got a hill, and there's generally wind blowing perpendicular onto that hill, you know, and as the wind hits the hill, it rises up,

and you fly in that rising air. So you'll be flying up and down the ridge, and the geography in the UK is generally you're flying on smaller hills, you fly up in mountains, they're flowing around snow, down near the ridge lift.

It's pretty good fun, it's pretty dangerous as well. I'll send you some videos later, actually. Yeah, so that's ridge lift, so you can fly for hours and hours on that. I've done sort of five, six hour flights from ridge lift.

- Oh, wow. - Yeah, and generally, other types of lift, thermal, do you know what thermals are? - I'm in the air shot, I get the idea, I don't know how they work or why they're there, or any sort of smart dirt.

I can't even say the word, job, or a fee. - It's just, it's rising air, so it's caused where, if you look down at the ground from above, you're gonna see different types of surfaces. I'm getting deep on another.

- No, no, no, it's good. - I want to, I want to learn. So we use basically the same, like, if you look at the road and it's hot, you can see. Okay, so, and then that just keeps going up, that's what a thermal is.

- Yeah, exactly, it's a blob of warm air, so that comes off generally a warmer area of land, and you can fly in that. - Okay. - It's amazing how much power is in these thermals as well. And you can fly in that.

- So they're patchy. - In wave lift, you get a lamp and a flow, a bit like ridge lift, but usually up at high altitude, you can fly up to like, 36, 40,000 foot in those. - Okay. - Yeah. - That's good, so it's fairly usual to have seven, eight hour flights, if you're good.

- And so why is it dangerous on a ridge lift what's the shape of it? - Because usually you're flying very fast, very near to the ground. - Okay. - Yeah, so how fast. - And how fast. - And how fast.

- That's what makes it fun. 100, 110 knots if you really put in the speed on. So one of the things I used to love doing at the clubhouse up, you'd have a really good ridge lift day. You're getting down to sort of 10, 20 foot above the ridge and you're doing about 110 knots maybe, also 150 mile an hour.

Yeah, you know, you're watching out for power lines, walkers, that sort of thing. Yeah, it's pretty full on. This is full adrenaline, full concentration, like super, super dangerous, but amazing fun.

You'll never experience anything like it. - Yeah, sounds pretty crazy. - Those sort of speeds and being close to the ground. Does it literally feel like you're flying? 'Cause you've got no noise either.

Do you feel like, fuck, I'm an eagle. - Yeah, pretty much. It depends what you're doing. If you're flying in thermals, like when you're thermaling, you'll be thermaling at pretty low speeds, sort of 42, 43 knots.

So it gets quiet. When you're doing 100 odd knots in ridge lift, it's loud, you know, just the sound of the air, passing the glider is loud. - Yeah, it's nice and I've thermaled with birds of prey quite often.

Been attacked by red kites when they're flying on ridges. Yeah, they don't, they don't have quads. - Well, they just literally come for it. - Yeah, like talons out, sort of just diving down towards the talons out trying to, I don't know what they're doing.

Just trying to scare you away, I think. - Fuckin' hell. They're pretty tough then, 'cause you're about 10 times the size and they're like, ah, fuck it, I'm gonna tell you what's going on.

- Yeah, that's not what they're thinking. It's not gonna end very well for them. It's not gonna end very well for a glider either, to be honest, it's quite a lot of damage. I haven't mentioned being caused by that.

Yeah, they don't give a fuck. The honey bunches of the air. - They're everywhere around here as well. Just scavenging, they're, it's pretty cool. I like seeing them though. Yeah, so well, I'd love to try something like that, but I assume it is something that you have to dedicate many, many hours to, it's not something

you can just like dive into. - Yeah, if you don't want to kill yourself. - Yeah, it takes a while to deal, you're not like a good man. - Yeah, it got a long time to live our lives and see how such I appreciate it.

- Yeah, well, that's what I gave up the motorbikes, 'cause I was just like, I am going to kill myself now. This is just fucking stupid, and so they got sold. And again, actually for Sats, which was again, brilliant timing, I was like, that's always a good thing, is when you were selling anything for Sats,

I was like, all right, I need to sell the bikes. Fuck, this is really sad. I really don't want to do this. This is just not something I want to be doing. And then you think, ah, but I'm going to get some Sats.

And then it takes the pain away, and it makes things easier to give up. - Oh yeah, exactly, I did the same when I sold my glider. Half of it went into Sats, the other half went into some kayaking kit, and it was a good decision in hindsight.

- And was it also a good decision then bringing it back away from gliding and coffee back to Bitcoin? Was it a good idea, do you think, to fold your business and go full-time into the 3D printing world?

- Yeah, I'd say so. It's early days. Well, there's two things going on. There's 3D printing which we'll dig into, but there's also LN bits, which is probably taking more of my time at the moment.

- It's always there, okay. - Yeah, I mean, so yeah, my plan as well is gardening and just sort of hanging out was just, 'cause I'm spending probably more time than it should have been when I was running this web dev company, farting around with Bitcoin stuff anyway.

I was like, yeah, that's the important stuff that he's doing, but I'll fart around here, 'cause this is fun, it's enjoyable, and it's what I wanna do. So I was just gonna continue doing that.

So yeah, I sucked off work, and then sort of just talking to Rick at Cryptocloke's, he just said, you know, you leave and work, you're interested in running Cryptocloke's Europe. Obviously, I was just, yes, that was the first answer.

I'm just taking it from there, really. It's been good, yeah, it's a really good decision. It's such a good bunch of people to work with. It's just fun. So I find that with all this stuff, right?

It's people around the common cause, and people are pretty aligned, and people are having fun doing it as well. That's been great so far. - It's an awesome company. - Yeah, I agree. - Yes. - In SF, and you know, these guys are just fucking cool.

I remember, like, first speaking to them, it was 21ism when we featured them. I think it was quite early in Cryptocloke's life. I think they'd only had, I think maybe it had one printer or two running.

Those guys came on and it was such a fun interview. It was just such a great guy, and yeah, I imagine a lot of fun to work with. - Oh yeah, Rick's good fun, he's good. You're also getting back on, actually.

I'm sure he's got things have changed a lot for him and last full time. - Oh, I can't do that. He fucking took over podcast last time. I had some technical issue, and they fucking took over the podcast at the basket, so I'm like, "No, you're not to be trusted."

- Oh, right, fair enough, yeah, if you go away. - He's wildly like that. - He's trouble. - Yeah. - No, definitely getting back on 100%. - Yeah, it's good, like, that some of the Cryptocloke's, the products are amazing.

So, like, you've got a mining month coming up next month, and we've spoken to you about-- - Yeah, nice shell. - Nice shell. - Nice shell. - Yeah, exactly, exactly. - Rick's working hard on designing all these shrouds.

There's so many shrouds for, so many different miners, different ways of venting the hot air, and they're doing well at the moment. So, the printers are sort of working hard on those. - Yeah, and then various other stuff.

I really enjoy just printing the fun stuff. You know, the little honey badger sets of drawers, the koozy nades, so little flexible koozy stuff. I've got one-- - Yeah, yeah. - Oh, you do? - Got one on my desk.

- Oh, of course you do. - Yeah, of course you do. - Yeah. - I've got a bright orange koozy sat on my desk, enjoyed a nice cold beer in it yesterday. - Excellent. Whilst you were wearing a gold chain.

- No, no. What I like to do with my gold chain is every time I go for a shit to put it on, and I have a little crown as well, and I just sit there like a king for five minutes of peace. - Just thinking of Cryptocloke's.

- Yeah, and you. - Cryptocloke's and you. And that's my morning routine after the coffee. It's make the coffee, that's a bit of meditation. Go and get my chain, go and get my crown, take a shit, think about you and Rick.

- Awesome. Oh, I'm glad to know that's where I am in your mind. (laughing) Very, very creepy. - You've stormed the quiz, yeah. You stormed the quiz, Max. - I know, what can I say? Just a think boy and just sucked in my IQ.

What is it, the bell curve, it doesn't even exist for me. I'm just not even on the chart. - Just completely on another level. No, I have no fucking idea how that happened, mate, honestly.

- Well, then. - Yeah. But it was awesome. I was like, completely, I didn't, it wasn't even gonna do it. I was chatting away to Ben Gunn and my missus, and we were just chatting shit. And all the quizzes starting, and I was like, should we just fuck it off?

I just, there's no point black coffee's gonna be there. He's just gonna win again, the prank, I just can't be bothered. So, we were just chatting, and then I'll go on, just give it a go. I'm like, all right then.

So, yeah, I just wasn't expecting it. And I just got so many nice prizes. Like, obviously the best is the Coosie, I mean. And the chain. - Obviously, yeah. - Absolutely, top-notch stuff. You can only expect that sort of stuff from crypto cloaks.

But yeah, the artwork from Chief Monkey is hanging on my wall and I'm very, very happy to have that at the cold card and have fun staying poor hat and all the other bits and pieces. Yeah, it was pretty cool.

We've obviously gone through the Coosies and all those kind of things, but these fan shrouds, I wanna say, obviously, thank you to you and to Rick because you offered to do some printing with these fan shrouds for winners of the prizes in the pleb mining month.

And I see that as something that, again, is another little community, another little group where there's a big buzz and people tinkering and coming up with so many clever ideas how to use the heat and all this different stuff.

And so it's something I'm really, really looking forward to this month. And it's awesome that people can get involved and win these prizes. And yeah, just cool that you guys are involved and helping with that.

- All right, yeah, I'm really looking forward to. You're welcome for these shrouds. It'll be good to see where they end up. - Yeah, I mean, mining is just something I've never even dug into.

And we've been talking about just buying a miner, but it's so expensive here, isn't it? - Yep. - I don't know, I still might just buy an S9, just spin it up for a few hours just to see it working.

It's only a couple of hundred quid, but it might be a fun little thing to have on the shelf. Oh, yeah, yeah, of course, needs to enter these competitions. Just having it on a shelf in 10 years time, I think the S9 is gonna be pretty iconic.

- Yes, yeah, I agree. Even if at the end of the day, it just ends up being used as a doorstop or something like that. It's still just cool to have one. I think we've got five now being given away as prizes.

So that's pretty exciting. But yeah, I mean, the mining thing is definitely something just like, it's intriguing. And although in the UK, the rates are just so fucking ridiculous that you're not, you'd be better off buying, you know, in terms of price, but to learn and to tinker and to understand the process of it

and to get some K-YC3 sets, it's definitely something I'm gonna do when I move as well. So maybe we'll each have to buy an S9 and yeah, fuck around with them. - Yeah, yeah, let's do that.

What else have you got planned on for your mining month? - We've got like- - Can you go into details? - Yeah, I can go into a little bit of detail. We've got, we've got so much. I've got I think 15 pods backed up that I'm editing and going through at the moment, we've got a load of bite-sized bitcoins.

So just like breaking down, I think there's like 50 different topics and questions where, you know, it'd be like a, what is SHA256 or whatever, like a little question like that. And then one of the guys, we've got like 30 pleb miners who are in the group, they'll then take control of that and say, "Right, okay, I'll do a recording."

So every day they'll be either a pod or a bite-sized Bitcoin. There's kids asking questions so that they can get involved and understand what the parents are doing and they're answering some of the questions as well.

We're gonna have it quite interactive. So anyone who's listening, you know, they start listening and they're like, "Oh fuck, I might want to give this a go." And they've got some questions.

They can just send them out and I'll get them answered. We've got all the prizes and giveaways. And yeah, it's gonna be a very, very busy month, but a lot of fun. Excellent, that sounds awesome.

I'll be tuning in for those, definitely. Yeah, and you know, it's been nice just to see as well how helpful people have been. Literally, this is just something that me and John and Sarah were talking about.

And we're like, "Oh, yes, a big good idea." And then we're like, "Oh, it'd be good to get some of these pleb miners involved." And the caliber of the people who have got involved and are in the telegram group and just willing to spend time so that people can learn is ridiculous.

Like, it's just constantly going, "I'm looking at it now." And there's just people in there now just like banging away, like sending in photos, answering questions and bits and pieces and they're all jumping on pods and doing all this stuff.

And then some of the businesses who have jumped in and giving away prizes and stuff like that is pretty cool as well. I've just literally got off the phone earlier to Lily from Foundation and she was like, "Yeah, we're going to chuck in a couple of passports as well so that people can secure their stats

when they're mining and doing that as a giveaway as well." So there's going to be some pretty, there's prizes there where I'm like, "Fuck, I haven't even got one of those yet." Oh, yeah. Yeah, there is stuff.

I want to enter. Yeah, I mean, it's another one of these, isn't it? People coming around, something they're passionate about and just everyone's keen to help the cause just get other people involved.

Yeah, it's really good to see. Yeah. I think what would be quite a cool one as well would be, maybe this is when Rick comes back on again and we just have to watch him and make sure he behaves but maybe we could do something with like you and Rick and maybe me and John or something like that

and see sort of the part where mining meets 3D printing, that could be quite an interesting one. Yeah, yeah. I'll be keen on doing that. I'll rope Rick in as well. Away from his busy schedule of designing and printing, I think his workshop's absolutely ridiculous.

He's got some of our 20-odd printers going all the time. I'm sure we can pull away from that for a little bit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, I know he's into his mining as well. So where do you see those two bits meeting?

Is it just fan shrouds at the moment or what other parts and things are people thinking about in the 3D printing world to help the miners? I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to see. There is some stuff going on within crypto cloaks.

I don't know how much of it's public at the moment. Yeah, I can't say too much. But there is stuff coming with mining. Okay, okay. It's not specifically with shrouds. They all look very exciting.

So stay tuned, stay tuned for that. Okay, all right. Well, maybe we'll find out when Rick's on the pod, he might let us know. But yeah, it's exciting stuff. What other stuff have you guys got planned that you can talk about?

You seem to be expanding your product range, as it were, quite a lot, very, very quickly. I'd say at the moment, actually, the focus is on mining. So there's quite a lot of stuff being designed around mines at the moment.

So I'm looking at a photograph of a, so Rick's just got this new massive printer super fast. I think it was total pain in the ass. He's called it the Diablo. It was a nightmare to make by all accounts.

He's using that for prototyping some shrouds at the moment. One, looking at the minute, looks awesome. There's just loads going on, just loads of designing and innovation around mining parts.

Yeah, and then there's, I guess, there's crypto cloaks Europe, side of the business. And we're really just trying to build that out at the moment. Like any business when you start, it's never straight into, you know, we're not straight into turning over a million dollars a year or anything like that.

It's starting small, building up slowly. It's a perfect time through the bear market, right? Get it going. Don't absolutely wreck yourself. And be ready for the next bull. Yeah, and you enjoying it then?

You enjoying this process? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think part of the reason why I was running this web dev company I was running before is because it's just, it's so fulfilling, building something and building a business.

So I'm enjoying doing that. And it's, I guess what's different compared to what I'm doing now? And we need to talk about Alan Bitts as well. But with with cryptocurrencies that I'm unable to focus.

So when you, when I was running this web dev company, I think when you run in any small business, you end up doing fucking everything. Like HR, tax, accountancy, project management, account management, a bit of dev work here and there.

And it's just mental. You send up so spread thing, you end up not really focusing on anything. And I think towards the end of it, I was just doing a bad job of everything. Welcome to my world.

Yeah, and that's not, that's not much fun at all. Cause you just feel like you're, you're not doing what you, what you should be doing, what you're doing a good job of something. And that's what's different like with, with Alan Bitts and with crypto cloaks.

I'm focusing on like a very small area and I feel like I'm just able to concentrate on that. So yeah, I'm, I'm really enjoying it. You know, with the crypto cloaks Europe stuff, it's, you know, talking with Rick, making plans for what we're going to do, actually producing and packaging stuff up and getting out there.

Yeah, it's good. It's very, it's very focused. I'm really enjoying it. So how does that work in terms of like ordering and stuff like that? You're going to separate websites or is it just going to be like, you've got crypto cloaks as the base and people go onto that site.

And then they order and if it's like, okay, if max orders, well, we'll send it out from crypto cloaks Europe, but if, if John orders, then, okay, that's going to go from America. Yeah, at the moment, it's two separate sites, the cryptoclukes.com and cryptoclukes.eu.

So the EU on being the European site. It may be these two get merged and we do some sort of like order splitting like that. But at the moment, it's all very, it's very separate. And isn't it?

Although it's cryptoclukes, Europe is sort of, it's Europe and Asia Pacific so ship out to Australia and Thailand where I sort of shipped out to Dubai. Yeah, so it's, yeah, it's two separate sites at the moment.

And have you got a few Princes running or like-- Yeah, of course. That's set up for it, yeah. Seven, the Princes? Oh, shit. Yeah, so it's, it's funny really. You go through, they go through fits and starts of busyness.

So like I'll have a week where, I don't know if I think it's very strongly related to the Bitcoin price action, as well as noticed, where Bitcoin pumps suddenly everyone's like, I got a bit of money spent here.

All the Prince will be running. And then I think, what was it about a month or two ago? We had that 10 grand drop from 30K to 20 and it was just dead. (laughs) It's very, very strange. Yeah, so you know, having all these Princes, it's good because when you get a busy week, you just throw a thing at the Princes.

They're busy rather than like dragging, 'cause no one wants to order something, wait three weeks and then it arrive, or before you even printing it, you wanna be able to get it done and then get printed in a couple of days and out the door.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yes, you have to have those already. And we find exactly the same with ungovernable misfits. It's like, when the price is running, people are all doing stuff all over the place and you have these drops and people are like, fuck that.

I'm not buying a t-shirt. Why do we do that? I could be stacking sets. And so we do see, you know, you could chart it out and it would pretty much follow the Bitcoin price. I guess that's probably with most Bitcoin businesses.

It's like, well, people don't wanna spend their sets when the price is dipping. They wanna be jumping in and buying. But the other thing is that these things are gonna become more and more popular as the price runs and as more people enter the space because everyone needs 3D printed stuff the same with like hardware and stuff like that.

People are gonna keep buying. So it's more of a rollercoaster, I guess, with these sort of businesses than it would be in the fiat world. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. I know the pain myself. I think that started using Mulvad.

Whatever, contract subscription to another VPN finished recently. So I just started using Mulvad and even just spending five quid on lightning for a Mulvad culture. I feel it's painful. I'm just spending money, not even spending Bitcoin.

Just spending any money on anything at the moment. I'm such a tight ass. Like, I can be buying Bitcoin with this. I'm not gonna get a coffee. I can be buying Bitcoin with this. At some point, I just need to stuff.

Yeah, yeah, it's hard. It's such a weird feeling that way you're like, I just need to stuff. Like, I need to be stacking here. And it's like the pain of spending, seeing any money leaving.

Like, you said, but even just the Mulvad, even just the Viva, it's just like, fuck. You start calculating everything in sats. But what I've found is you can look at it and go, oh, I'm being a bit ridiculous here.

You know, this is a bit too much. But you always look back. Like, you wait a couple of years and you're like, oh, thank God, I didn't have that coffee. (laughing) Thank God, I didn't spend those extra sats because, you know, that was a great stack.

You know, you look at it. You just think, oh, yeah, that was a great stack. So it's always worth it in the end, but tightening the belt and, yeah, just like living below your means all the time.

- And spending money on things that actually matter. So like, a nice holiday with your family is something that is worth spending money on. - Yes. - Buying, I don't know, whatever, some shit that you don't really want, you can probably not.

(laughing) There's like, as logical as it is. And it's like, it's obvious. But there's things they're worth spending money on. And whatever it's gonna be worth, like, you could spend, I don't really like talking about Bitcoin price too much 'cause it's a bit boring in it.

But you can go and spend a couple of grand on a family holiday. And in 20 years time, if you bought those sats instead, it'd be worth a lot more money. But you can't, you can't go back in time, can you, and have that family that hold you with your kids?

- Yeah, exactly. And especially because the whole thing with Bitcoin is like, you're storing your time and you're foregoing some of the things that you don't really need today so that you can have a better time in the future.

But like you say, you can't go back in time. It doesn't matter how much money Bitcoin's worth. You can never, ever go back. You can never spend that time. You can, and it's like, what's the point otherwise?

Like if you don't enjoy your life along the way, like I've kind of found that. Like I'm more lax now than I was in the beginning. Like it was ridiculous in the beginning. I'd be like driving for six, seven hours and I'd be like, oh my God, I'm so thirsty.

I need to stop for some water. I'll just buy a water and then I go into a petrol station and I was two pound 20 for a bottle of water. Fuck that, no way. I'm gonna go and drink out the tap in a public toilet.

And now I'm like, listen mate, just fucking sort your life out. Just go and buy a bottle of water, sort of drinking out of a public toilet, you weirdo. And so like things like that, things like that, I'm lapping it out the bowl.

You know, you just have to accept sometimes. You've got to spend money here. It is what it is, like, whatever. Exactly, live your life. You can even get one go at it, right? (laughing) Right, that's our public toilet discussion done.

Ticks, we're just gonna do the list here. That's Ticks. Ellen bits and everything you're doing, and with Benark, can you go a bit into that? Also, I wanna say, when he messaged me the other day, you were like, oh yeah, just tried to go on on a governmental misfits and I tried to share it with Benark

and it isn't fucking working, the website. I was like, oh, good. I'd have loved for him to see that. Fuckin' excellent, of course that doesn't work. Did it ever work in the end or was it just like me?

It did work later in the day. I don't know what was going on with it. Ben's gonna listen to this. So, Ben, go and check the website out again. Yeah, go and check it out, mate. If you reach out to me, I might even send you a free T-shirt if you come on again.

Oh, very nice, do that. Yeah, Ellen bits. Yeah, this was another thing that was just, sort of fairly much, no, fairly out of the blue. I've been involved in, like a fair bit of Ellen bits related things, so contributing some code into Ellen bits and doing like a reasonable amount of work on some of Ben's projects.

So, you've probably seen the Ellen point of sale device. Yeah, you showed me it down the pub. Yeah, yeah, some of this stuff, like I just really enjoy that sort of just fun stuff. And Ellen bits, I really enjoy working on that project.

And that's what is well within my wheelhouse, you know? It's a web interface to an API that talks to a Lightning node. So, I just was just contributing to that anyway and having fun doing it.

And talking to Ben from time to time, then when I left the company I was running, I said to Ben, right, I'm gonna have some more time to play around with Bitcoin stuff. So, let's just do some fun stuff.

And it came at sort of, like, I had no idea of this, but Ellen bits got some funding about the same time to try and support the open source side of the project. And some of that funding was available.

And Ben said, you know, join the job. And I said, again, yes, like working in Bitcoin. Of course, I'm gonna do it. So, joined Ellen bits along with, there's a few of us now. We're putting a Kali, BNI, Vlad, Ben.

Yeah, we're all just sort of hacking away on Ellen bits, just to make it into a better product. And it's moving fast. It's moving so fast. I can't keep up with it at the moment. So this morning, well, yesterday I was playing around with some of these bulk cards, there's an open source, bulk card.

One thing I was gonna look at today was trying to get out working with Ellen bits. And yeah, someone's already done it. And there's a video of someone running a whole stack on Ellen bits and it's just, it's incredible how quickly things are moving at the moment.

And there's a lot of new stuff coming out, Ellen bits. You should probably talk with Ben, actually, 'cause he'll be able to give you the spiel much more eloquently than I can. I definitely will.

I've had him on before on 21ism a while back. It's one of the last people we actually spoke to, I think, and we went into it. But a lot has changed, like you said, since then. We definitely need to go into it.

But while you're here, and you know the score, for anyone who's listening, and they don't know what Ellen bits is, can you give like a bit of an overview and some of the things that are possible with it?

So, if you're running your own Bitcoin and Lightning stack, right, you've got a Bitcoin full node, you've got LND or C Lightning or Eclaire or whatever, sitting on top of that. What that basically allows you to do if you're using your own node to send and receive Lightning payments is you've got one Lightning wallet

that you're sending payments in and out of. What Ellen bits does, it sort of, it abstracts the layer on top of that and gives you a web interface to have multiple wallets all running off that single Lightning node.

So, I don't know, you could share your Ellen bits instance with family of friends, they can create wallets. I think we call it a Lightning account system is sort of the strap line for Ellen bits.

So, anyone who has access to your Ellen bits instance can have their own Lightning wallet that you're backing. And it comes with, you know, standard Ellen bits instance comes with a ton of extensions that allow you to do loads of different stuff.

So, let's have a look at some of the things you can actually do on that. So, you can, there's a point of sale extension. There's extensions that allow you to have like a Jukebox in a cafe, for example.

We display a QR code on the screen, someone can scan that, send some stats and a Jukebox will start playing. You have chip tip jars, you can have these Lightning addresses. So, you could have, I'd say Mac, so that's Ungovernablemystix.com.

People can send you stats through there, offline shops, split payments, so this is something that is done with podcasting 2.0, right? You know where you can, your incoming payments can be split amongst multiple parties.

There's a similar extension in Ellen bits. Let's say you have one wallet, like a master wallet, then you've got 10 other wallets that are owned for other people, and this might be a business.

So, you can take payments that go into this master wallet, and then they automatically split out to these 10 sub wallets that could belong to 10 members of a cooperative, for example, and they can each be taken 10% of them, of whatever, of the proceeds, of whatever sales.

Yeah, there's tons, Macs, there's so much, and if anyone's not had a look at it, they really need to dig in, and there's so much going on all the time, so one thing that's been worked on recently is, I mean, the skills that some people have got that are working for Ellen bits is just ridiculous.

There's an on-chain wallet extension with taproot support, so you can have a wallet accessible through a web interface. There's an on-chain wallet, and it connects to a hardware wallet through the web serial in a Chromium browser, and there's a hardware wallet coming out that can be used with this extension.

That's a project that I'll get onto in a minute, actually. I'll tell you some of this stuff now, Macs, and I'll tell you about it afterwards, whether it can be released. There's a bolts extension, so let's say you have an Ellen bits instance, and you're shilling Bitcoin in your local community, you can use my Ellen bits instance.

Here's a wallet, use this, use the point sale in here to sell things, and then you're going to accumulate SATs. So that person's SATs are then accumulating on your lightning node. What you probably don't want, and what they probably don't want is to trust you, let's say they get a million SATs in a few days.

You don't really want someone else's, a million SATs or someone else's. Yeah, definitely, money sitting on your node. So there's an extension being worked on to auto loop out on chain. So what you'd do is you'd set up a non-chain wallet, you'd set up the bolts extension, saying every 100,000 SATs I want to loop out,

and then every time my thresholds hit, Ellen bits just doesn't auto loop out into this on-chain wallet, and that removes a lot of risk for, if you're, you know, for you and any vendor that are using your instance, that's amazing.

And then there's some other stuff coming soon as well, which probably can't talk about too much, but yeah, it's like, it's such an exciting project, it really is. - Yeah, it's awesome. I love the videos he does as well, such down-to-earth guy, like just so unassuming, but building such cool stuff.

- Yeah, Ben's a beast. - And he's so like understated. - Yeah, I'm just hacking away, and then I don't know from some of the things he said about some of the code he's written. He doesn't, I don't think he understands what he's actually doing here.

Like it's great and just so innovative. I don't know how he comes up with some of the stuff he does. Just it's beyond me. I think he's just being very creative, right? - Yeah, it's so cool being able to work around that kind of environment as well, and be creative and stuff.

And that's, for me, lightning's interesting for these sort of reasons, like, let me say with the splitting of payments and the podcasting 2.0, and just all these things that are, some people will say, "Oh, it's a bit gimmicky," and it's like, "Oh, okay," whatever, but it is cool.

It is exciting, especially when that's a use case that actually affects you. Like, for me, the podcasting 2.0, I'm like, "This is really fucking cool." It's not paying the bills or anything like that, but it's fucking cool.

When I see a payment come through and someone sends a message, and they're like, "Oh, I like the podcast," or, "I like this bit that you're talking about," or whatever, it really excites me.

Like, "Fuck, this is so cool." And then you see the splitting of payments. You're like, "Okay, I like this." You can have the ability to, if someone's doing clips for the show, or they're contributing in some way, I could say, "Okay, well, a percentage then goes to them."

Or, without having to do all this complex, well, not even complex, but like fucking around with accounting and stuff and going, "Oh, okay, I need to take this off, "and I need to, at the end of the month, go and pay them."

It's like, "It was already done." That whole idea of streaming is just so fucking cool to me. - It just brings another level of use to Bitcoin. And I know there's people around who just think lightning's a shit coin.

(laughs) And I've been spoken to some of these people and I was like, "Poken, and go on, get lightning, though." They're just not keen. Like, it's super early. You know, I think I had it in 2018.

I had started playing around with lightning a little bit. And it's come on a long way in just four years. Where's it gonna be another four, five years? I can't even imagine some of the stuff that's gonna be done with it.

- Yeah, definitely. Just while I've got this absolute twat outside with a leaf blower, we've got a new part of a show. I'm gonna send you a link. Any guest who comes on this show now gets to choose a ungovernable misfits t-shirt.

- Nice. - So while I send this out to you, you can have a little look through and you can choose live on air, and then we'll get one sent out to you, and hopefully this guy will fuck off in the meantime.

Can you hear it loudly? 'Cause to me it's fucking loud. You can't hear anything. - No. - That's really weird. I can hear it really loud. It's like directly outside my window. - Are you gonna send me this link in here or?

- Oh, there it is, right. - Yeah, yeah, come on. You're supposed to be a fucking tech genius. - I can't imagine. - Been minutes. (laughing) - I'm left behind, I'm like, so slow. (laughing) - What am I gonna go for?

- It's only t-shirts, not hoodies, 'cause I'm just too tight for that. I'm not that level in life yet. - Oh, I got seed sign I want, Max. It's very nice. - Well, that's good as well, because then most of the money will go to him, so I'll pay him and send you out the shirt.

- Well, I think I might already have ordered a seed sign I want that, so. - Oh, really? - Yeah, I probably can't have a big Bitcoin logo. Quite a nice one to have a little shill moment here for, so anyone who buys a seed sign a t-shirt, 80% goes to the seed sign a team, just to help development and everything else.

So we've had quite a few, and I actually still need to send it a set, so I won't run it with those, I promise seed signer. But it's a good thing that people can sort of donate to a really important cause.

I think seed sign is fucking awesome. And it's just like more people. My thinking was like, more people are gonna wanna donate if they get something with it as well, so we don't really make any money, but it's kind of a way that I can donate, and they can donate, and I kind of think it's a good way of doing it.

- Totally, right, I've made my decision back. - Go on, won't be gone. - The defunds the war machine one, please. - Oh, very nice, that's one of Mr. Crowns, who will be very happy about that.

Okay, done, what color? - Black, please. - So I can wear it for more than one day. - Large. - All right, perfect, done. Right, that's that bit of the show done. If you can't hear this guy in the background, we can continue with everything else.

- Yeah, I can hear it a little bit, but it's not too bad. - Okay, all right, that's good. So LMBit's very interesting, we'll definitely do a show on all of that. - Oh yeah, and on the LMBit's side of things.

There's a web shop coming soon. Well, there's two things that I probably ought to mention. One is, there's fairly shortly, I would think, and again, I'll have to check with Ben that can sort of talk about this stuff, but the plan is to have a one-click spin-up of an LMBit's instance.

So you'd be able to go to LMBit's.com, click on buy an LMBit's instance, or whatever, and it creates your own LMBit's instance with your own hosted lightning channel, and you can pay, I guess, by the minute, by the day, inserts for that.

So that's something that's coming soon. It would be immense when it actually comes through, 'cause a lot of people, if you're getting LMBit's and you're running it on your own node, say you're running it on Raspberry Blitz or Umbral or whatever variation of whatever package, whatever node package that you have,

a lot of times you'd be running it behind Tor. And that works fine for a lot of LMBit's and a lot of the extensions, but there are instances where it can cause problems. So, for example, the LN point of sale, the LN PoS device needs a clear net instance of LN bits, and there's some other things as well that do need it.

So, having this one click, spin up of an LN bits instance, backed with a hosted channel, or with your own node is incredible. So that one's coming soon. And then, I guess, what Ben was actually asking of me when he was saying do you want to job, is I'll be running as well as sort of contributing some code here and there, and helping out,

I'll be running a web store. So, we're gonna have an LN bits web store where, probably get like shop.LNbits.com, where people can buy LN point of sale devices, the FOSA ATMs. Ben will give you the whole spiel on the FOSA ATM, but it's basically a lightning ATM, where you can put in bank notes, which is amazing for an ATM,

problems and coins, get paid out in search. All sorts of hardware for creating switches that run off lightning payments. So you can, for example, wire a switch into a coffee machine, pain sets, activate the coffee machine, kits for fiddling around with, hacking around with, stickers, t-shirts, hats, all the gump freely.

And I'll be launching pretty soon, because Ben has been doing some podcasts as well, which you'll probably hear. So I need to get my Austin to get that sorted out. - Yeah, that's really cool.

I love the idea of like it being integrated into things and just like the same with a coffee machine or people being able to exchange their filthy slave notes for some satts, that's really nice.

I think, was it LNbits machine that was being used at the first Bitcoin beach where Openoms was doing the talk, or was that a different machine? - No, that's a different machine. That's a bit different machine.

- Yeah, this one's, I guess you'd probably would have seen that one, it's a bit finicky sometimes with, and it's coin-only as well. - Yeah, he stole my money, the bastard. - They've been very, very generous with the satts as well.

(laughing) But the FOS of V2, it's a new coin mechanism, a note reader, and just generally a lot more reliable. The idea is you just pop it on the side somewhere, like in a news agent or in a co-working space, and you don't even have to attend to it, it's just, it sits there and runs all that stuff.

- Very cool, and so you don't have the issues generally, like it works and you don't have to then restart it and fuck around and all that stuff. It should just be there and work. It's interesting that even for small shops and stuff like that, or even to have at your house, like if you're a Bitcoiner and you're always trying

to onboard and shield people, maybe you can build one of these and build in a bit of a percentage on it, so as you onboard people and give them your satts, you can make a few percent on the sale or something like that, that'd be quite cool.

- Yeah, exactly, and I think from what I've seen of the FOSER is that you'll be able to set a percentage fee for the use of it. And I mean, one of the things I think about with this co-working space I'm in now, is the whole thing could be run on SARTs.

You know, you have an ACM in the corner, people come in, they put ten quid in or whatever, they get the SARTs out and they can use that to pay for a desk, to pay for a meeting room, all this stuff's paid for, you can fuck around with Veezer and MasterCard on a website at the moment, it's so clunky, this could just be, you know,

with a little NFC card, which the bulk cards are amazing for this, scanning a QR code, just for all this stuff, it makes things so much better. And the way I really hope to see this working, it's just like little mycelium getting out into the community and getting out into all these little places like co-working spaces

or community hubs, you get lightning and Bitcoin into all these places, it could make such a big difference. - Yeah, I agree, do you know what would be really cool? I don't know why it just came into my head, but like an arcade and bowling place or something like that, like if you, when you went in,

it's all running on lightning and Bitcoin. So you come in, you put your slave notes in or you change at the counter, and then everything is priced in SARTs. And so whenever you go up to any machine you wanna play, you just tap and you go, or you scan and you go, that could be quite a cool way of integrating it

'cause it's fun and people would be like, "Oh, well, this is just how it works." I either download this app or I have this card and everything they pay for, they just is automated and done, and that'd be pretty sick.

- Yeah, in fact, one of the, on the Pro, it's gonna be on the Ellen bits. Shop is an arcade machine where you can do just that. - It's kind of a real code and play on Street Fighter or whatever, whatever game is loaded on the arcade machine.

- Yeah, in fact, Nathan Day and his son are working on something with Zebedee at the moment, which is really cool. I think the best stuff is called Game of Tron. You've got a little Pac-Man game.

I'll send you to that actually. And you play on Pac-Man, you enter a leaderboard and every week there's 25,000 SARTs payouts. That's pretty cool. SARTs my next world. - That's very cool. Okay, that's very cool.

Yeah, I like what Zebedee are doing as well. The Devcom played on the racing game and one of you SARTs, that was quite fun. - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good fun. And they just got a load of funding from the same people that make Legend of Zelda, which is absolutely enormous.

So who knows what's gonna happen? - Wow, fucking hell. That's mad. - SART, so I've run up, I don't know. - Yeah, I was just thinking that. - Good. (laughing) - So you got your hour and 15 minutes out of me, Max.

- Yep, that's what I wanted. - Good, good. - Gone through the list. So yeah, it was good to catch up, mate, and go through some of these things. We'll get you and Rick on, ideally. And yeah, we'll also do one on Ellen bits.

That'd be really good. So yeah, we can go and get our coffees now. I'll send that t-shirt out to you. - Good, I've got my shills in. I've got a t-shirt. I mean, like, I mean, this is very good Thursday.

I don't know if I actually got to catch up with you 'cause we didn't properly at when we were camping. - I know. It was a bit crazy, crazy busy. We never really got to sit and have the proper catch up.

- No, which was a shame, really. There was so many people I just wanted to go and talk to. - I know, and I was right at the bottom of the list, and you were like, I've talked to everyone else, and Max is right at the bottom of the list, so.

Well, he's fucked that one up. - It's all right, yeah. I can leave whenever I'm not spoken to him, so it's fine. (laughing) - No, but we ought to catch up properly. I'll talk to you about it after we've introduced it.

- Yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely, mate. All right, cool, well, yeah, stay on the line. I'll post this one out, but good to chat to you. Is this fucking guy again outside? You hear it now? - I can't know, yeah, just to finish off with.

That's a little bit amusing, very untrue. - Yeah. (laughing) All right, mate, take care, we'll speak soon. - It's all right, see you later, Max. - Thanks again for listening, and thank you for all the support.

Everyone who's been reaching out, screaming sats, sharing with friends and family, and giving feedback on ungovernable misfits.com. Thank you so much, it is awesome to have you guys on board.

I really enjoyed catching up with Black Coffee, and I hope you've enjoyed listening. Hopefully him and Rick will be joining us for the PLEB Mining Month. We can get into where the worlds of 3D printing and home mining collide.

Thanks again, and I'll catch you on the next one.