Ancient technology, UFOs and psyops with Zach Herbert.

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.

Now what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.

All right, you ungovernable misfits. I'm your host, Max. Everybody knows that Bitcoin is useless, worthless, and doomed to fail. But what if everyone's wrong? What if it's the system that is doomed to fail?

Join me as I speak to some of the brightest people in the space and deliver to the deepest, darkest depths of the Bitcoin rabbit hole.

Welcome back. Today's episode is with a return guest, CEO of Foundation Devices and good friend, Zach Herbert. It's always good to chat to him. And in this episode, we don't talk about Foundation Devices.

We don't talk about Bitcoin, really. We're talking about ancient technologies, UFOs, sciops, and what the fuck is going on in our skies. I think you're going to really enjoy this episode, but if you are here just for Bitcoin, then I suggest you click on the links in the show notes.

You can go to the episode I recorded with Zach and Bitcoin Q&A where we do a deep dive on Foundation Devices. They talk about the importance of open source, why design matters to them, and how they're making cypherpunk tools for fuckwits.

I'm very proud to have them as a sponsor of this show. If you haven't already checked them out, go to foundation devices.com and make sure to use the code bit by bit. That will give you $10 off and also let them know that I am shilling them hard.

A big thank you also to everyone who's been supporting the show via podcasting 2.0 apps. It really is awesome to see it consistently in the top 10 spot. So thank you to all of you. And just a quick update to let people know we have pulled all clothing from the ungovernable misfits site.

We've had a few problems with the labeling supplier which has slowed things down to a point I'm not happy with. So until we get that rectified and up and running smoothly, it's pulled from the site.

Everything else on the site is up and running. So if you want to check out the articles, podcasts, animations and everything else, go to ungovernable misfits.com. Is that, do you hear me all right?

- Yeah, can you hear me Max? - Yeah, that's coming through nice. - Amazing. - Good to speak to the pro. Mike set up. - It's great to speak to you as well. It's been some time. - It has been.

What's your mic set up then? - Oh, just the, you know, the Yeti boil. - That's what I've got as well. The stand at the staple. - Of course. I don't need anything else. - It's pretty impressive what it can do.

- Absolutely. - It's been a while since we spoke on the pod, but occasionally we message each other and a lot of the things that we have in common, they keep sort of popping up and the other day we were talking about UFOs and some other bits like that.

So I said to you, look, can we just have a conversation outside of Bitcoin just like we would off air and seems like you've got a lot more knowledge in these sort of areas than I do, but I'm absolutely fascinated by anything that's a little bit weird and unexplained and particularly since getting into Bitcoin

because it's really opened my mind to be like, well, there's so much stuff. The media will say, oh, definitely this is the way something is or this isn't the way something is and they're always fucking wrong.

So when I start hearing about like UFOs or afterlives or anything to do with ancient technologies or anything like that, I'm thinking, well, I don't know what's right, but whatever they tell us is wrong.

So yeah, just a chance to sort of chat about some of these things 'cause it seems you've fallen down this rabbit hole maybe a bit harder than me. - Unfortunately, I have, I think Bitcoin is the cause of all this, you know?

I think I was the same way, you learn everything in school and you don't question anything and then you get onto Bitcoin and then at some point you just start questioning every mainstream narrative.

And unfortunately, it seems like these days almost every mainstream narrative is completely wrong. I mean, I think last time I was on the pod and we weren't talking, I think last time I was on, we were talking with Q&A about the new passport and then the time before we were talking about COVID

and so that was a whole rabbit hole in itself. But I don't know what it is, there's something about Bitcoin that just like flips some switch in your brain and all of a sudden you're questioning everything.

- Yeah, well, the last one we did just one-on-one was on COVID and you'd written a really brilliant article. I think especially at that time, that was like my main focus weirdly almost even more than Bitcoin because it affected my life, I guess, like immediately and it seems like you sort of had the same feeling and so it was a weird time

because actually most Bitcoiners that I was close to and speaking to were doing a similar thing, it was a huge distraction. But, you know, we're a year down the line and it seems like everyone's bloody forgotten and they're back in a menu video and just fucking ignoring anything that matters and what comes next.

- I know, it's almost like it didn't even happen. It's crazy. - It is, I guess something that we have in common is we're looking outside of what normal media are telling us and maybe open-minded enough to, I don't know, look down some of these rabbit holes and my position on most of it is I don't know

when it comes to Bitcoin stuff, I'm pretty confident but when it comes to like some of maybe the more, it's weird calling it a conspiracy theory because everything that's a conspiracy theory seems to be coming true recently.

So I don't wanna call it that but like an alternative view of the world, I suppose would be the way to put it. I'd asked for some book recommendations and you'd written, how what was it called?

- I think there's this one. - And yeah, I think that one was not an audiobook because it's like a fringe book. You can find it on Amazon, but I think it was UFOs and nukes. - That was it, yeah.

- It was a really interesting book. You know, all accounts from different individuals, former military, you know, working on nuclear sites, right? Like a working in nuclear missile launch silos, for example.

All these insane accounts of just UFOs, you know, landing, hovering over the site, turning off the power to all the nuclear missiles, shooting down test missile midair and caught on video, you know, all those kinds of crazy things.

- What the fuck? - So that was one of the books I recommended but then I also recommended the Graham Hancock, probably fingerprints of the gods, 'cause I'm already done with that one and I'm reading his second one and I watched his newer Netflix show, Ancient Apocalypse, which I thought was, oh, you did, oh, perfect, okay.

- Yeah, it's funny because that's one thing me and my miss is having common. We love this sort of like anything to do with Graham Hancock or like ancient civilizations and stuff. We fucking just get obsessed with it.

So we'll watch stuff like that, which is nice 'cause the Bitcoin stuff, she's not so into, but yeah, Graham Hancock's an absolute hero, what I love is like, he's been fighting against the system for such a long time and being ridiculed for such a long time.

He's so grounded and so nice and even though he's now being proved right, there's no like bravado or anything with him. He's just, yeah, I've got a huge amount of respect for him but yeah, that show is great and as far as I've dipped my toe in is listening to like anything that I can get my hands on with Graham Hancock,

Randy Carlson and Jimmy Cosetti and just like that kind of way in and listening to Rogan with them and that kind of stuff but I've not really taken it any further. So what was your journey been with this and how far down this rabbit hole have you got?

- Yeah, I think my journey may have started by, so one of our co-founders at Foundation, Jacob, who's our head of supply chain, is a total conspiracy theorist about everything. - Right, I think he's pulled me more into looking at some of the stuff.

So I think the first thing I actually read, I mean, I'm sure I came across all these YouTube videos and stuff, right? Which is probably how I started to get pulled in but I think the first actual book I read, it was not Graham Hancock and it was not the UFOs one.

I think it was actually a book about like the pyramids being like a power plant. (laughs) And now I sound like a raging, you know, lunatic, right? - No, I've heard this before. - It was a book called the Giza Power Plant, I think.

And I just thought it was so cool 'cause I'm a mechanical engineer by education. I just love this kind of ancient technology type stuff. And so I think I read that book and then I started to watch tons of videos and I think that brought me to the Graham Hancock stuff, watching those videos, listen to the podcasts on Rogan and so on

and then actually reading the books. And then I think I read the book and then I watched the Netflix series. So most of this for me has only been in the last year or so. - Okay. - But then at the same time I've always been interested in the UFO stuff ever since actually that New York Times article broke in 2017

with all the accounts from the Navy pilots and capturing video footage of the UFOs off the coast of, I think it was California. - Was that the commander Freiva one? - Yeah, exactly, exactly.

And I think that was like in the early 2000s but New York Times I think broke that story in 2017. And it's kind of funny because you have a mainstream media outlet that a majority of at least the Bitcoin community does not trust like the New York Times and then they're running articles about UFOs.

And I think that's one of the things that confuses the community right now and which is like, I don't trust this publication so I don't trust anything that this publication says. So that's something we could talk about too.

But I think I kind of got into the UFO stuff and this more ancient history, ancient technology stuff. And then at some point more recently it's almost like converged into the same thing for me.

I would look at it as one category instead of two at this point. But yeah, most of the interest for me has been in the last 12 to 18 months. - Just to touch on what you were saying there about the community kind of being split and not trusting a lot of these news outlets.

It's funny because I do see that a lot which is like, because there's some reports now coming out of UFOs, whereas before, although they're not calling it UFOs, they're calling it something else now, whatever that is. - Sure.

- Because that's now being reported on, now I see everyone saying, oh, this is a distraction. - A sigh up. - A sigh up. And it's like, sure, it could be, or it could be that it's a double bluff.

It doesn't mean everything they say is wrong, although a lot of it is. And it does seem like there's relatively compelling evidence that there's something going on. - Yes. - It's really hard though.

I think basically you have to not completely close yourself off to everything that any media outlet puts out because otherwise, I don't know, I think probably you miss a lot of things. You have to just take everything at face value and then assess it with the info you have, but it's fucking tedious doing that.

- Yeah, exactly. And I think that there's probably some sigh up going on. I think it's possible for you to believe that there's some kind of sigh up and distraction that's occurring with the more recent articles of shooting down these, they call them UAPs now.

I think it was unidentified aerial phenomenon. And then they will recently change it to anomalous phenomenon because now they're talking about air and water, trans-medium type stuff as they call it.

- So what are they, OAPs now? - I don't even know. But, and they keep changing the names of the offices that are in the Pentagon that are investigating these two, but regardless of all that, I think it's possible to believe that the UFO phenomenon has been happening for thousands of years.

And at the same time, it's difficult to trust all the information coming out of the government and traditional news sources today, right? You can believe both those things simultaneously.

I almost, I said to someone, I said, I think like, the sigh up is convincing people that it's a sigh up. Does that make sense? - Yeah, that's why I said double bluff because it's a nice way of doing it.

And it's almost like they must feel at the moment the level of trust in media, especially after COVID, has to be a lot lower. - Yes. - If you're then playing that game of chess, you're gonna be like, well, okay, we're gonna have to use this to our advantage and how do we do that as a double bluff?

So it would make sense that they're doing something like that. - Yeah, like if you consider yourself, you probably don't consider yourself a conspiracy theorist. All right, I think that's actually like an offensive term that has been put onto people.

But if you consider yourself distrusting of the government, and you also have, you know, maybe are more open to believing that UFOs exist, whatever they might be. It's almost like the perfect thing that happened in the last few weeks, right?

Where the government shoots down a balloon, that's obviously a spy balloon from China. And then shoots down three objects that they call UAPs, right? And then they say, you know, deferring accounts of, you know, were they stationary?

Were they moving with the air currents? How big were they? Were they shiny and reflective? Did they have a radar signature? They can't find the debris, they abandoned the search. To me, that seems like kind of nonsense.

- Yeah, to me too. - But I think it's been effective at now the quote-unquote conspiracy theorists are saying, well, the UFO is, all the UFO stuff is just a government conspiracy now. - Yes.

- I would try just not to fall for that. I would look at it more of a, you know, look back in the last several decades or look back even further. If this UFO thing has been reported for a very long time before we had planes, before we had the United States or any other world governments, right?

If you can back thousands of years and you can try to separate what's more like, what I would consider more credible report, like hearing from former military pilots or commercial air pilots that are speaking out at the risk of losing their careers and being faced with ridicule from mainstream media

and government and, you know, their own employers, right? Versus, you know, reports that you're seeing on the news of us shooting down like a mylar balloon, right? Like you have to be able to evaluate each thing on its own and try to figure out what is credible and what is not.

So one new podcast that I've been listening to the last couple of weeks that is called merged. You heard of that? - I haven't, no, I'm such a fucking loser that I'm exclusively listening to Bitcoin content or almost only, but I'll check it out, I'll have a listen.

- Yeah, so it's by one of those pilots from the New York Times report that came out, but it's Ryan Graves was one of those pilots that witnessed in person. - I've heard him before on another pod.

- He started a podcast in the last month or so called merged and he's interviewing all former commercial or military pilots about their experiences and it's extremely credible. And it's just a great listen overall.

- Oh, I have to check that one out. I mean, to me, it makes sense. You know, you're saying ancient civilization and UFO and in your mind, they're kind of one thing and I'm kind of coming to that conclusion from a little I know as well because when I look back at some of the stuff with ancient history in the pyramids

and just some of the stuff, you're just thinking, well, A, how the fuck did they do, what they did? Just in terms of the architecture, it's like, how the fuck did you do that? How are you so advanced?

And if you're advanced enough to do that, what else were you doing? And then if you sort of tie that in with this younger dryer theory and the fact that if there was anything, most things that you could look to to say, oh, okay, there's a technology.

It's like everything's been wiped off the face of the earth. So how would you know? And then you look at like these cycles, how these civilizations die out and then are reborn and you look at where we are now.

And we seem like we are, for the most part, like pretty fucking retarded. Like the stuff that we do as a society, like honestly, like you look at it, you just think, what are we doing? Like if you look around, do you hear the conversations people are having?

Could it have been better? Could there be civilizations that did things in a smarter way? I kind of think like there has to be surely. - Well, let's start just purely from like the ancient history, ancient technology side of things and then try to find our way to UFOs.

- Sounds good. - So like, I think from like a, in my mind, you start from the most basic questions. So question one I had was, could we build the great pyramid today with our current technology?

- I don't think so. - I don't think so either. I mean, the fact that you can't even slide a piece of paper between these blocks and it's so precisely accurate. I mean, I don't think we can even hold those engineering tolerances today in any kind of building that we build out of metal and glass, let alone quarrying giant rocks, right?

- Sure. - So let's just like, you just start there. It's like, do we have the technology today to build the great pyramid to the same, call it, you know, tolerances, right? Exactly. Same engineering tolerances that it has with exact alignment to true north.

And if you've watched ancient apocalypse or read the Graham Hancock stuff, you find out that, you know, there's an exact mathematical relationship between the width of the base of the pyramid and the height with the circumference of the earth and that kind of thing.

And you're just like, like, I don't think we could mathematically do that today. So how the hell were they supposed to build that, you know, a few thousand years ago? It just doesn't make any sense.

- Well, the only thing that makes sense is what I would call like a wishy washy response, which a lot of like pretty smart friends of mine who were normally smart and they're like, oh, it's just a coincidence.

They're just fitting those numbers around the fact that it's that wide and then making it make sense. It's pretty fucking big coincidence. - But even like forget those numbers, you can still see that just from an engineering tolerance perspective is perfect.

- It's perfect. And I just don't think we're capable of building that today with our current technology. And we are supposed to have today the best technology ever, right, of any society.

'Cause we're taught in school that technology has like a clear and constant progression, right? Where each year you have better technology than you did the year before. And we magically started as, you know, hunter-gatherers and we progress technologically through these revolutions and now all of the sudden, you know,

we're in the information age and we have the best technology that we've ever had. So to me, that's like the fundamental first question. I don't think you have to be a conspiracy theorist to be able to realize that a lot of this stuff is very, in my mind, is very simple and obvious.

You look at it, you say there's no way we could build that today. So the fact that they say this was built a few thousand years ago with hand tools, with hand tools, you know, and chisels and hammers doesn't make any sense to me at all.

And that's one of the reasons why the, you know, the narrative from Graham Hancock and, you know, some of the others, like Randall Carlson, Jimmy Corsetti, it just makes so much sense, right?

But then there's a second part to it. So one part is, could we build it today? My other big question is how do all these civilizations across the world all have pyramids and similar symbolism?

Similar renditions of what the gods look like. You know, the thing with the holding the little purse type object, you know, all over the world. They all have pyramids and similar symbolism.

And they were not supposed to have had any contact. - Way before they were supposed to have had contact. - Exactly. - And it's so similar. The similarities are too great to just be a coincidence.

- Exactly. - People can say like, oh, well, if you were going to build something, you're going to do it like a pyramid and any child would do that. And if you're going to carry something around, you're going to have a bag and obviously it's like, well, yeah.

But not like this, not so perfect. And the difference is like the way they cut the stone is so strange. And it's not like regimented blocks. You have these weird shapes that's not together.

- That's the other thing, right? So I'm trying to start from like the high level, right? And work our way down, right? So one, we couldn't build it today. And I think that also aligns with what you're saying.

If you look at some of the blocks and you actually look at some of these structures where the blocks on the base are enormous and they fit together almost like a jigsaw puzzle with no seams between almost like they've been molded or something and not stacked.

And so you have that and then you have, as you build up, you see blocks that are maybe more looking like how we can build today, right? Or how people have built over the last few thousand years where you're just stacking bricks and the tolerances aren't there.

So that's one aspect is like, can we build it today? And the other aspect is why are there so many symbols and architecture elements and building styles in common across these cultures that should not have had any communication?

So if you literally just take those two things and you think about what you learned in school and what's on Wikipedia, it just does not make any sense that our current theory of human evolution and how our society has progressed technologically, it just can't be true.

- Doesn't make any sense. - No sense at all. And so if you think about, okay, well, if you were learning these things, what's the simplest explanation? 'Cause the crazy thing is like, it seems like modern historians and archeologists, they have these convoluted explanations to explain all these things.

And every time the theory is challenged, the explanation gets more convoluted. It's a coincidence or, you know, everyone has bags, like it doesn't make any sense. But in my mind, the most simple explanation is that there was some civilization that was worldwide.

That would explain everything. That would explain why there were architectural and construction elements in common, why there were similar renditions of deities and it would explain why there were all these pyramids, literally everywhere across the world.

It makes perfect sense if it's the same civilization that at some point collapsed and we're just looking at the remnants of that same civilization. The third thing, by the way, is you get more biblical, how every single religion and culture has the flood myth.

And it's not just like a few of them, it's thousands of them. And it's all roughly the same myth. - Yeah, that I just don't see how anyone can argue with. It's everywhere. And then it sort of lines up with this younger Dryas theory as well and from a lot of the images I've seen of how these floods have moved

and what it's done to the landscape around it. I don't think you can argue with it. It happened. - And that was the genius of Graham Hancock because when Graham wrote his first book about this fingerprints of the gods, that younger Dryas theory did not exist yet.

So he posited that there was some kind of catastrophic cataclysm that occurred that wiped out this advanced civilization about 11,000 years ago. And he didn't know what it was. And so he posited that it had something to do with, I think it was like tectonic plates and shifting and something with the core and causing

like massive destruction on the earth and flooding and so on. And that was what he posited in, I think at the very end of his first book, Fingerprints of the Gods. And then only more recently did we discover that it looks like we had this comet impact around the same time as the younger Dryas theory

where this comet hit essentially impacted the ice caps, which would have been a few miles thick of ice, which caused enormous flooding. And that over a certain period of time, we had multiple impacts from this stream of comets or debris from the same comet, whatever you wanna call it, right?

And that there's actually evidence for that, which fits perfectly within the timeframe that he had posited in the first book before anyone knew about this comet impact, which I think is incredible that he was able to say, based on just from his research, he was able to think that there was some kind of cataclysm in that timeframe.

And only years after he wrote the book, did it come out that it looks like there was an actual comet impact? So I think his first hypothesis was probably incorrect, but now all of a sudden you have evidence.

And then you have the go back to a tap-A stuff, right? Where they actually found, they dug, and this was after also he wrote his first book. But they find this very ancient ruins of a site from that exact same time period when humans were supposed to have been hunter-gatherers and should not have been able to build the site.

And then they start digging up the area and they find, I think it's in Turkey, and they find other sites and they do this scanning, I don't know if it's LiDAR or whatever they do, ground penetrating radar, and they see that there's actually many more sites in the area, and most of it has not even been dug up yet.

- Yeah, it's mind-blowing. When you see some of these sites as well, when people are saying, "Oh, they're hunter-gatherer," it's so far from that, it's so much more advanced. You just think anyone's saying that just obviously hasn't seen the images because you would shut the fuck up if you saw them.

- Exactly, and then the precise alignment to the different constellations is just mind-blowing. You would have had to have an understanding of mathematics that is greater than what we thought humans had at the time.

So at minimum, we should be revising our theories about how humans evolved. And instead, you see the opposite. You see mainstream sources saying that, I think there was The Guardian that ran an article saying that ancient apocalypse is the most dangerous show on television.

(laughing) And you see a massive rejection of Grand Hancock and others like him from the more traditional, archeological and historians and so on. You see exactly what you would expect to see, right?

From a mainstream response. - Yeah, well, I think a big thing with all the guys we're mentioning is they are normal people who are thinking about things in a logical way. So when they're viewing the evidence, they're not coming at it with like, they haven't been educated to understand and know a certain thing.

They're just looking at it with fresh eyes. And I think that's where the difference is. And by someone who is smart and looking with fresh eyes and they haven't been taught to only know one thing, they're gonna come to a different conclusion than the people who come out the universities.

And I think that's probably what just annoys the fuck out of these people is that they're the experts, but they're totally wrong. - Definitely. It's funny that the first book I read when I was getting into all this was the Giza power plant, which I think is an awesome read for anyone that wants to read that book

and they can find it on Amazon or wherever. But just the idea that like, I thought back where I think fifth grade for me was the ancient Egypt curriculum in fifth grade history. I remember it, you know, I actually remember learning about the stuff and mummifying a chicken and all that.

And you know, you're taught that the great pyramid is just a burial site for whatever pharaoh. And then you find out when you actually start to read about all this that they never found any hieroglyphics inside, they never found any sarcophagus.

They didn't find anything that you would see in a traditional, you know, Egyptian tomb, which is usually filled with artifacts and you find, you know, sarcophagus or multiple ones or you see the hieroglyphics and so on, nothing.

It's a very strange design because there's these very small passages, there's these giant chambers, you know, the outside of the pyramid is built with limestone. The inner chamber is built of granite and a special granite that they have to bring in from far away.

And then you have this, what they call the sarcophagus in the, in like the king's chamber, which is like the big granite box with a lid that I, I don't know if the lid is gone or on the floor or something like that, but it's a big granite box.

And you have these giant pieces of granite like stacked on top of the king's chamber. I think it's like four or five enormous granite blocks that are perfectly smooth on all sides except the top where they're like all chipped away and jaggedy each one, but they're perfectly smooth on all the other sides.

And you're like, why the hell did they build it this way? And so the traditional explanation is they built it as a burial site. What this book, you know, posits with this, I think the author is, I think it's like Christopher Dunn, I think is the author, is he says that it was some kind of power plant.

Now, does that sound like a completely insane? Sure, but I also think it sounds insane that it could be a burial site based on everything we know about the other tombs. I think it's fun to apply engineering principles and kind of first principle thinking to looking at some of these ancient sites and trying to figure out

like what was the purpose of them. So what he posits is that limestone, which is what the pyramid is constructed of is a great insulator of electric current and that the granite that they brought in was a special granite that had an extremely high concentration of quartz.

Quartz is exactly what you'd find in like a, think about like a cheap watch, you know, like a battery powered watch. He has like a quartz crystal inside. If you compress a quartz crystal, it actually creates electricity.

If you actually add force, you put it under some kind of load or compression to the piezoelectric effect, it creates electricity. So he said that, you know, what they basically did was they poured these like different chemicals down the two big shafts into, you know, I think it was like one of the chambers

like the queen's chamber and it created some kind of chemical reaction that created a lot of gas, which then essentially up into the king's chamber and put enormous amount of compressive load against this perfectly granite chamber, which then created electricity somehow.

- Okay. - I mean, is it a good hypothesis? I don't know, but I just thought it was really cool to read that book and think more about looking at these ancient sites, what that original function actually could have been.

It's really interesting that they brought in certain types of stone from far away to build a specific chamber. And one of the core premises that the author had was that the chamber needed to resonate at a certain frequency.

And he said that these giant blocks stacked on top of the chamber were like tuning forks where they had them all perfectly carved on all sides. And then they chiseled away at the top of each one to get each block to ring at the exact same frequency.

And that's why they're all jaggedy up on top because who cares what they look like if they're meant to be, you know, like essentially like a resonator of a certain frequency and that the builders had a very deliberate process for essentially building it and then tuning it once they were in place

and that there were remnants of some kind of explosion that happened within the pyramid where it looks like the walls had been shoved out and cracked and then repaired at some point. And he said the amount of force that would have been required to cause interior damage to the king's chamber would have been enormous.

And maybe, you know, there was some kind of accident or explosion that took place because, you know, if there were some kind of constant chemical reaction and gases flowing through and, you know, putting pressure on the chamber, there could have been some kind of horrific explosion that they then had to go in and patch the thing up

from the inside. So that's basically the book and it was absolutely fascinating. - Well, certainly a possibility. Like you can't rule it out and there is weird stuff. Like, like you're saying about getting specific type of granite and from, I think from memory, this says something like 800 or 1,000 miles away, something crazy like that.

- Something crazier like that, exactly. And it's like these granite blocks that they're moving are tens of tons. They're fucking enormous. So it's like, if you're going to go through all that effort, even now, even if you have like modern machinery to get that specific type of granite, you would probably think there's a reason behind it.

And it could be as simple as it was a burial site and king, whatever, really like that granite and you just fucking do it. It could be, could be, but like, it seems unlikely. - Well, there's another aspect to it where if you think limestone is hard to cut into those exact perfectly sized blocks where there's no seams between them,

how the hell did they cut this granite? To be able to cut it at these perfect angles, you know, exactly 90 degree angles inside of this chamber, inside of this box, inside the chamber, it's insane to me that they could get that precise tolerances and precise geometry.

I think we would struggle to do that even today. And then oddly enough, the fact that you have these perfectly precise angles for the chamber and then you have these giant blocks stacked up above the king's chamber where they're perfectly smooth on all sides, except the top.

- Yes. - And you have to ask, you know, why was that the case? You know, the explanation of, well, they were, maybe they were rushing and, or they didn't care what the top looked like, you know?

- Yeah. - Or it was meant to, no, I mean, like there's, there has to be a reason why they would have it perfectly smooth and perfectly carved on every side, but not on the top. And so even if this power plant explanation is not correct, I think it's really important to be welcoming theories

like this, as opposed to just saying it was a burial site for whatever pharaoh and that's that. The only thing, the only weak point for me about that book was that I don't think it had a strong enough explanation for how they could have gotten the electricity out.

And so I think that's to me a lingering question, which is if it actually was a power plant, was there some, a lot of people draw parallels between like Nikola Tesla and like free wireless energy with his like towers and the fact that the pyramids were encased in gold and had the entire top be solid gold.

You know, maybe you can get the electricity out the top, for example, I don't know. - 'Cause you're wondering how they distribute that energy, maybe they were mining in there. - Maybe, I mean, to me that was like, to me that was like the weak point of the book was, I don't think it gave a compelling enough explanation

of how they got the electricity out. The author said that, you know, it was creating essentially free energy because you'd have this jumpstart, you know, kind of explosion to kick the pyramid into resonance and it would resonate at the same frequency of the earth.

And so the pyramid would essentially match the resonant frequency of the earth and then it would be constantly resonating. I don't know, I think that's where things start to get a little weird for me.

But I just think that that was like, that was the thing, this book was the thing that opened my mind to the possibility that all the stuff that we were taught in school about ancient Egypt was wrong.

And then kind of just went down the rabbit holes from there. - Yeah, well, so I mean, where we're at is, we probably couldn't build it. It's almost certainly not a burial chamber, but we don't really know what it is.

- And it seems like it had some kind of engineering reasons for some of the design decisions. - I won't accept like, oh, well, it's jaggedy on the tops, perfectly smooth on all other sides on all of these stones.

But the top isn't because they were rushing. They weren't talking rushing. They were going thousands of miles away to go and get tens of tons of these blocks to move and have everything perfectly aligned.

The engineering and the precision is just obscene. And then it's like, oh yeah, we just won't bother about the top, fuck off, that's definitely not right. - Exactly. - Yeah, it's interesting.

And so if we take it as that, it's like, they were certainly in some ways more advanced than we are now. We can't say like, they were definitely more advanced in all aspects of life, but they certainly were in some quite a lot more.

- There's another aspect to it where, and this goes against everything we've been taught about technological progress, where the Egyptian technological progress declined over time. - Mm. - They were not able to make those large pyramids or cut stones like that.

You know, later on, when you look at the different sites are on ancient Egypt, there's nothing else that looks like that. That's weird, 'cause right now we live in a time where our technology is progressing year over year.

Maybe there could be pauses, right? And progression, you could have like a dark ages, you know, where technological evolution pauses for some period of time. But to be able to, you can't start with the pyramids and then go down.

- It's consistently with a lot of the stuff, isn't it? Like the vases and things like that. - Exactly. - Where they're so perfect. And then it's almost like they're trying to replicate what was done previously.

- So you've seen those videos too? - Yes. - Yeah, it's almost like they found these vases that were so perfectly manufactured. They essentially look like they were manufactured with a CNC machine or a lathe.

There was a YouTube video I watched recently where they took professional equipment and measured the tolerance of this thing. And so the only way to manufacture anything to this tolerance is with like a CNC machine.

And then you look at other vases from more recent times in Egypt and they look like pieces of crap clay that they were trying to get to look like the original ones that they found. - Yeah.

(laughs) - Yeah, so it's almost like they've stumbled across it and they're like, we don't know how the fuck they've done this. This is a lost technology from a previous time and they're trying to replicate, so.

- Well, we're gonna take that. We're gonna, we go into this pyramid. We see all this pottery. It's all beautiful and perfect. We grab it all. We use it in our homes for flowers or food storage.

And then we try to make new ones that look like that and we can't even get close to matching the quality. But we're using that as an example, right? We're trying to make things that look like that.

It really does, I think the simplest explanation is that in the beginning of Egyptian times, a few thousand, or several thousand years ago, stumbled across these remnants of this lost civilization and just built their new civilization around that.

We have historical precedent for that. I think humans have commonly been building on top of other more ancient sites. There's examples of building. I mean, even looking like a Jerusalem, you build the mosque on top of the remains of the old temple.

- Yeah. - You're building on top and on top and on top. And there's so many examples like that across the world. - Yeah, well, that makes sense. If you're gonna find a site and presumably it's probably facing the way you want it and that pie in any good location.

And you can understand why that would happen. - Exactly. So I think the interesting question is like, how do you relate all this to the UFOs? (laughs) - I don't know if we should talk about just the UFOs more in general, but I think what's interesting is that firstly, we've been spotting them from our airplanes

since we could originally fly. I mean, there's examples in the early 1900s of, I think they call them like the Foo Fighters where there'd be these orbs or lights flying alongside. I don't know if it was the World War I pilots, I think.

It may have been World War II. That's one example. And then ever since then, we've been continuously spotting them, both from planes and then also obviously just normal people on the ground.

And this has been a constant in our modern society. - It's one of those things where people can say, oh yeah, well it's trick of the eye or people are lying or whatever people can come up with.

But if we think about how much we know in terms of the universe and how the world works, we know fuck all really. And so is it really that much of a stretch to say, there's stuff happening that we don't understand, not really?

And there's so many people who see it. And also like, yeah, you have some sort of weirdo people who like to make stories up because you think it makes them interesting. But then you have like very reputable people who are coming up with this stuff as well.

And it's like, there's some stuff where you think it would benefit someone to lie here. And then you look at it a bit more critically. But there's a lot of people who not only wouldn't benefit but it actually is a detriment to their life to say the things they say.

And then you think, well, so why? - Exactly. And I think more recently, looking at the accounts from military pilots or commercial air pilots is a great example. I mean, like, you know, Ryan Graves, David Braver and so on, they're out there saying, not only do we have footage from the cameras

on the fighter jets that actually captured these UFOs, you know, these tic-tacs as they were called. But we also have accounts from these guys that they visually saw them. They were able to describe what they looked like.

They saw them with their eyes. It wasn't just some trick of the light on the camera. And they said they actually saw them even going in and out of the water. And some kind of activity beneath the surface as well, beneath the surface of the water.

- That's the bit that blew my mind. I was like, oh, 'cause if there was somewhere I would hide, that would be the place in the water. - Definitely. And so, I mean, it's taken decades just for this to come out.

And it's not like the government is out there releasing all this information. And so I think, you know, if you're mistrusting of the government or traditional news sources, this isn't information that they've just willingly released.

This has been decades of effort and a tiny amount of information that's been released. So my immediately question is, I mean, where's all the information that they haven't released? I'm sure there's orders of magnitude, more, you know, stories like this and probably photos and videos and so on.

And if you combine that with more recent accounts from the last few decades from commercial air pilots and others in the military, we've been seeing these objects in the sky ever since we could fly firstly.

And then that book I mentioned UFOs and Nukes is one of the coolest reads because there's many former individuals who worked at these nuclear sites, like nuclear missile silos that have extremely clear accounts of all this UFO activity happening, you know, specifically focusing on our nuclear activity,

which if you're thinking about it from first principles, if there is some object out there that's flying around or some kind of advanced civilization, whether it's from here, from somewhere else, wouldn't you be interested in the nuclear activity?

- Yes, especially with the people who were in control of pressing these buttons, I would definitely be interested. - So it kind of aligns well with the increase in sightings ever since we dropped the first bombs, right, or conducted the first nuclear tests.

And you got, for anyone listening that's interested in this topic and for you, Max, like you got to read this, this UFOs and Nukes book. I mean, it's, and I think these guys actually also some of the individuals that were either authored the book or were mentioned in the book, they just testified to one of the congressional committees

about this, I think, in the last week or so. So there's some articles out there. I think one of the UK publications actually wrote about it a few days ago about how these guys testified in the US about all the activity they witnessed at these nuclear sites, including shooting down a test missile midair.

- That's weird. - Then you look back even further. You see that there's, in all these paintings, an art, just art in general, over the last few thousand years, there's all these depictions of things that look like flying saucers.

There's this one famous painting. It's like, I forgot what the title is, but it's like there's some kind of like aerial battle, you know, in the skies. It's like a Renaissance painting. And it depicts like these different like shaped crafts that could have been like fighting each other in thin air.

And this isn't like Renaissance times. You think about like Columbus talked about how he followed like the glowing lights, you know, when he was looking for America. There's accounts, you know, from him about what sounds a lot like the glowing orbs that, you know, people report seeing.

There's biblical stuff like the book of Ezekiel sounds just like a UFO encounter. They just, they describe pretty much exactly how you would describe a UFO or one of the types of UFOs today that people commonly see.

It gets really bizarre when you start looking back throughout literature and art and so on throughout history and you see references to this stuff everywhere. - Yeah, I think I know the painting you're talking about.

It does seem as reference everywhere. And when you start speaking to people as well, I have friends who are over trust very much on this sort of stuff who have seen things that are completely unexplainable and they're not weirdo people and they're not saying it just to like be an interesting person.

They've seen stuff that you can't explain. And the more you start asking people, it's like, yeah, I know someone who's seen that. And it's like, is everyone lying? Is everyone a complete fucking weirdo?

I don't know, I would not believe that that is the truth. I believe the people that I've spoken to about, stuff like that. - So there's a new show on, I think it's national geographic but it's on Hulu in the US.

Yeah, I don't know if it's in the UK right now, but it's called just UFOs, which is kind of funny, kind of a boring now show name. And the second episode I started watching last night was just a town in Texas where dozens of people called 911 and hundreds of people say they saw this football field size UFO flying over their town

being chased by two F-16 fighter jets. And the things like a size of a football field just going overhead. I mean, there's so many accounts like that. It's like, and I almost think like before the internet you could control it all.

And now you can't. I think that's the main reason why it's starting to get out there because humans have never had the ability to communicate without some kind of centralized party. There's always been newspapers or radio or TV networks, right?

There's never been a way for us to actually communicate peer to peer and now there is. And so I think that's one of the reasons why all this is coming out because you just, you can't stop it anymore.

One thing I wonder sometimes though is why hide it? 'Cause it always seems like governments want everyone to be fearful of everything. They want you scared 'cause you're easier to control when you're scared.

So then I think, well, people will probably be scared if there's things that they don't understand flying around and seem to be much more powerful and more advanced than we are. So why wouldn't you tell them?

And then it makes me think, well, if they're trying to hide it, then are they communicating with them? There's so much that you want to question, you know? Is such a, well, is it possible to know at the moment?

- Yeah, so I think I don't consider myself like a conspiracy theorist. I think I approach this very rationally and I'm not really bought into the theories of, well, they're communicating with us or the government has talked to them or the government has a, you know, crashed UFO somewhere.

I personally don't subscribe to any of that. I think the most simple explanation for me or, you know, the most simple theory as to why they're not, you know, being more forthcoming with the public is because they don't know what it is.

And the last thing you want to do is admit that, you know, your military, right? Your scientists have no idea what this thing is. And I think it's just easy to ignore it because these things, from what, I mean, once again, I don't really, I don't personally believe in abductions or any of that stuff.

So if you just think that like, that they've been around and you have, and throughout the last thousands of years, there's been these, some kind of crafts flying around, you know, orbs or tic-tac-shaped things or discs, right?

And they're not interfering with us at all. And we don't know what they are. The easiest thing to do is just to pretend like they don't exist, in my mind. Because if you're out there saying we don't know what this is, it really harms the credibility of the military and the government, especially for the United States.

- People are fearful, but they don't believe that you're as powerful as you tell them. - Right, like the US is supposed to be the most powerful, military, most powerful air force, right? If we come out and we say, yeah, we don't know what these things are, we look like idiots.

But the crazy thing is that's what's happening right now. We've basically come out in the last few weeks and said, we just shot down three objects, we don't know what they are. Now here's the thing, we said we shot down three objects.

I don't think they could ever actually shoot down these UFOs, as we're discussing, unless they wanted to be shot down. And I doubt what they shot down was actual UFOs. I'm sure they shot down some balloon or whatever.

So if that's the case, then think about announcing to the world, we don't know what they are, but we shot them down successfully. It's a great way to like save face. It's the same, it's like kind of saying like, you're admitting that there's all these objects in the sky and you don't know what they are.

But you're also saying, don't worry. We have the air superiority to actually shoot them down. It's genius, I think. It's like a half, it's like starting the conversation around being open about some kind of disclosure, while also still trying to say, but don't worry, like we're the most powerful air force in the world.

And we're the only ones that have been able to shoot them down. So, I mean, that's kind of how I think about it all. But I think that what's really interesting is trying to connect it to like the ancient history, ancient technology stuff.

Because a lot of people think, you know, you hear UFOs and aliens, right? It's like the extraterrestrial, you know, hypothesis that they're coming from some other planet and visiting us. I think the more fun one is the ultra-terrestrial hypothesis, which is that- - Me too.

- That they're essentially us, or maybe some remnant of some very ancient civilization that has tens of thousands of years, or even maybe hundreds of thousands of years of technological progress ahead of where we are.

And maybe has been here longer than we have. Maybe they look just like us. Maybe it's something else, I don't know. But that's the one I, that's my favorite one right now, which is like, they're actually of this Earth.

- Well, it would make sense. I mean, the world's a big place. There's a lot of places to hide, especially in the ocean. We don't know what the fuck is going on there. Is it really that much of a stretch as well to say, if there was an ancient civilization, rather than all of them being killed off, losing that technology completely,

they just adapted and moved, and then they kept themselves to themselves like really. I mean, it's not that much of a stretch. - Right. - But yeah, I mean, the obvious place to me would be, I think anywhere on land, unless the technology is so far ahead, hiding on land is a lot harder than at sea.

- Yeah, and if you think about all these ancient flood myths, and if you've watched the ancient apocalypse, or read some of the Graham Hancock books, I mean, I think it's clear that, I mean, I'm a total believer in that hypothesis where there was some ancient, technologically advanced civilization

that experienced some kind of major cataclysm. And the survivors would have gone around the world and educated the humans how to rebuild and still some common values across civilization, and things like teaching them how to farm, potentially building.

I think a big open question from the Graham Hancock show or books is, did they build some of these structures before the cataclysm, or did they build some of them after and kind of teach the humans how to do it?

So that's one kind of, I think, big open question. But that would explain why there's so many of these common religious stories about the flood and about all these cultures being visited by a certain type of bearded figure who teaches them how to grow crops and build things and stop eating each other and sacrificing each other.

You know what I mean? It seems to me that after some kind of cataclysm and humanity is very much in the hunter-gatherer, no really shared culture or values or religion, that some figures come and kind of lay the groundwork for what we know as humanity today.

And the big question is like, where did those come from? And it's really cool to think about wolf. They survived this cataclysm and they were essentially survivors of more ancient civilization.

You know, they have been the ones to go around the world and essentially take these more, you know, these uneducated hunter-gatherer type humans and then really rapidly bring them up to speed.

And there's biblical accounts or narratives or stories of this kind of thing, right? There's things like called like the watchers. There's all these like God-like figures. There's, you know, the Greek gods.

It's like there's so many similarities and myths across all these cultures that to me, it's difficult to think that it was all just a coincidence that we established the same myths. And so, you know, an interesting question to ask is if that did actually happen, what happened to those survivors?

Did they, were they just normal humans that assimilated with the populations or have they always kind of stood aside and not meddled with humanity's progress? Just like how there's societies across the world that are still hunter-gatherer societies without technology and we do not meddle with them, right?

We stay completely separate from them intentionally 'cause we don't want to interfere with their culture or their evolution. Unless they start fucking around with nukes. Right, and if exactly, and if they were somehow able to, you know, did you, there was some podcast I was listening to that was talking about this, I don't even remember.

But yeah, if some group of individuals, you know, some old society running around with loincloths and bows and arrows and stuff in the Amazon rainforest all of a sudden rapidly progressed over a couple hundred years to be making nukes.

I think we would probably be observing very carefully. Yeah, I think so. Especially if you're actually on the same planet, you're going to be like, okay, we need to make sure these idiots don't blow everyone up.

It's such an interesting thought experiment lights. I think could there be something else on the planet? And could it just be humans that branched off and they've adapted over thousands of years and they keep themselves to themselves?

I mean, there's still civilizations today which by what we would class as primitive, like, you know, just bow an arrow and put together a row and then we've got us and then all the way through the scale, you know, you can interact with two different humans and one, you wonder how they get out of bed

and just get through the day and the other, you know, you think, whoa, this person's on a completely different fucking level. How far is that scale? And are we just way further down the scale than we think we are?

Maybe. Maybe, and I think there's definitely an opportunity for the extraterrestrial hypothesis as well. I mean, you could imagine like a Star Trek scenario where, you know, you're not like the more advanced aliens are not allowed to interfere with us primitive humans.

But maybe they are observing us or maybe they need to stop by the planet to collect some water or something as they travel across the galaxy. I think that one's a little sci-fi, right? But at the same time, if you think about, you know, more modern science fiction like Star Trek, that's exactly what that science fiction envisioned, right?

Where if we were ever a multi-planetary, you know, space-faring civilization, we would have rules about not interfering with these primitive cultures. I think it's also a compelling hypothesis, especially because we're the only planet in our solar system.

Well, maybe not. I guess you have moons that have, you know, water on them. So maybe it's a crappy theory, but I think it's definitely an interesting one. - The thing is like, there's definitely something.

I'm pretty confident there's something. It's just, if they are coming here, it doesn't seem like they're here to harm us because it seems like whatever technology they have from like what Kamada Shriver was saying and the speed these things move and the way that they can be undetected and everything else,

it's like, yeah, and if they're interfering with our nukes, it seems like they could, if they wanted to, just completely fucking destroy us, but it doesn't seem like that's what they want.

So it's like, are they just monitoring, are we like their pets? Or are they actually here to learn from us in another way because you can have someone who's a complete retard, but they're brilliant in another aspect.

So it might be that we're retarded in so many ways, but we're brilliant with-- - Well, that's like the zoo-- - The zoo-type. - Yeah. - The zoo hypothesis, right? That we're basically just being observed.

- Yeah. - Aww. - I mean, it could be. - Yeah, I mean, I just think it's, I think we as a society should be having these conversations and I think that's what's the most sad part to me right now where, you know, like I said, personally, I think some kind of ultra-terrestrial hypothesis makes the most sense logically,

or maybe that there's some ancient myths, cultural myths about some kind of extraterrestrial presence coming here thousands of years ago and essentially creating humanity. You know, maybe we were created.

I know there's some-- - Oh, 60 Anunnaki thing, whatever it's called. - Yeah, exactly. We were created to like mine gold for them, and that's why there's, you could find all these gold mines in Southern Africa that have already been mined, that looked like they might have been mined hundreds of thousands of years ago,

and they're just depleted. You know, like how the hell is this even possible? Another crazy one is that maybe there's been hundreds of human civilizations that have all been destroyed or wiped out.

Maybe every 12,000 years or so, there's some kind of cataclysm, you know. They talk about in the ancient apocalypse show that this tour and meteor stream that comes around, you know, every like, I think it's once a year comes around and, you know, at any point in time we could be impacted by some giant meteor or comet or debris.

And, you know, maybe we just, so right now or living in this, we're lucky enough to not have had any major impacts in the last 12,000 years. And we've reached a level of technological progress that maybe has never been reached before or maybe has been reached, but only a few times.

It's really interesting to think about that. And I think it would really help society to be having these kinds of conversations because the smartest thing we as humans could be doing right now is studying all this and discussing and debating all this.

Like, if I had like a billion dollars, like if I was like in on musk level rich, I wouldn't be buying Twitter, I would be buying Egypt and sending teams in to excavate everything. All the stuff that's not allowed to be excavated across the world.

I mean, you hear from Graham Hancock, they won't even let you into a lot of these sites. They won't let you dig up anything or do any research. Like we should have a global push, you know, almost like in Manhattan Project to investigate and dig up every single one of these sites to scan the entire Amazon rainforest with LiDAR, right?

To scan everything, to dig up everything, to put every smartest scientist and engineer and trying to figure out exactly what happened to the last civilization, try to discover any types of lost technology and potentially be faced with like the scary, you know, reality that maybe, you know,

at any point in time we could be hit by some meteor or comet and be starting at zero again. Like that to me is the scariest aspect here where, you know, maybe we've been here for a very long time and there's just no archeological record of anything from any prior civilization.

I think there's a lot of Hindu scripts talking about how there's been like four civilizations or something that have been wiped out and really crazy stuff where they describe giant battles that sound like modern nuclear weapons, too.

- Oh, shit. - I know, it's, yeah. So anyway, I mean, it's, maybe we Bitcoiners can get very wealthy in the future and actually figure all this stuff out and kind of find the truth of it all.

- Well, it'd be so much more interesting than the things that people spend money on at the moment. How much money is spent on war? How much money is spent on just stupid, stupid shit? And then there's questions which are like huge question marks which we probably could get to the bottom of if we had the resources and spent the time.

But instead, it's like everyone's on TikTok or fucking firing missiles at each other and it's just, it's so frustrating. But yeah, let's say maybe Bitcoiners can do that. It does make me wonder as well, like if there were these ancient civilizations and they were more advanced than us, maybe they hadn't fucked up the money.

So if you look at this very small period of time now, like we're talking about building engineering, if you look at properties that are built today, in the UK, I'll speak for the ones that I see here, it's utter shit.

And you can say like, okay, that fiat world and they're using cheaper materials and they don't want to spend as much time and blah, blah, blah, you know, we know that conversation. But I wonder, you know, if you go back far enough, maybe these civilizations hadn't fucked up the money.

And maybe they were then able to not have this leak of like all of our energies being stolen all the time. So maybe if they had that sorted and especially if they did actually have a way to produce energy and they did have this technology, then it's like, you could see that they could do a lot,

like a lot, like you imagine what it would be like now with got all this fiat fuckery out the way. I think we could do some pretty amazing stuff over the next couple of hundred years. - Yeah, I mean, I think so.

It's interesting because if you think about what happened if we had a cataclysm today where we were hit with a bunch of pieces of a meteor or something and we experienced global flooding, think about what would be left.

- Not alone. - Maybe just the pyramids? Because look at, you think about like the Titanic built with steel in a hundred years, it's already like half disintegrated in the sea water. People think that building with metal is what lasts, right?

You think about the skyscrapers or the lark, all that stuff just disintegrates within a blink of an eye. Right, but I just mean, if not maintained, it's gone. And so it's kind of interesting to like, we look at these ancient stone buildings that have lasted and we look at them as being primitive.

But potentially if you were on it to build something that could last tens of thousands of years as a civilization, you would use material like granite and limestone. - Yeah. - You know, you wouldn't be using bricks and concrete and steel because that stuff wouldn't last, especially underwater.

But it's just really interesting to do that as a thought experiment because it's just right now, it's like every ancient building is stone and we look at that as primitive. I've always been interested in like Nicola Tesla.

I've read a great biography of him. I think it was called Man Out of Time, highly recommended read. They probably have an audiobook for it as well. And one of like the famous Nicola Tesla quotes is, you know, if you want to find the secrets of the universe think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration, which is so fascinating.

People like Einstein said that Nicola Tesla was smarter. And I think that a lot of the theories as to how like the purpose of the pyramid or a lot of this ancient technology, a lot of the theories people are putting forward have to do with like resonance or frequency.

And that's like a completely unexplored area of science and engineering today. - Good friend of mine who's a physics teacher was explaining to me. He was like everything, whether it's hot or cold or whether it's liquid or gas or whatever it is, is just how fast it's moving.

- How fast it's vibrating. - Yeah, exactly. So hot vibrating fast, cold vibrating slower until you get true zero, whatever it is, minus 200 and something, whatever that is. And then that's there's no movement.

And we are just vibrations. That's all everything. Everything is that in the universe. So I was like, I don't understand the science behind it, but it makes sense to me. I'm like, okay, that's cool.

- So yeah, if someone could unlock or like be able to control these frequencies, then presumably you can turn something from-- - Well, that's interesting. - Hard or move or yeah. - Or potentially from solid to more malleous.

Which could be an explanation as to how they possibly took these enormous stones and put them together where it looks like, it looks like they were warm and like, it almost looks like how you would expect if you took like Play-Doh or something.

Something that was like a soft material and like stacked it on top of each other. It doesn't look real. It doesn't look quarried a lot of this stuff, you know? It's just bizarre. And I think it's interesting that you have like Nikola Tesla talking about frequency vibration.

You have him talking about free wireless energy. And then you have all of his work gone and all of his files gone. You know, as soon as he died, I think it was the FBI went in and took everything.

And you have basically the media and some of the large corporations turned him into basically like a raving lunatic. You know, he died in his hotel room surrounded by pigeons that he was feeding.

They took probably one of the smartest people of all time and by the end he was like a raving lunatic. You know, it really makes me wonder about when you think about this ancient technology, can we learn anything from coming up with wild theories about how some of this stuff worked?

That's why I thought the pyramid power plant idea was so interesting because the idea was that you build a structure that you get to resonate or you put into resonance with the earth itself.

And then it's able to kind of create electricity and sustain this vibration. It's just like you've obviously seen like, you know, like you have a singer that sings at the same frequency as the glass and it shatters.

But you can also have a tuning, you've probably seen like a video or something of a tuning fork where if you have two tuning forks at the same resonant frequency and you tap one, the other one will also start to ring at the same note.

- Maybe that's what all the different pyramids, some of the different pyramids around the world were like different tuning forks or something like that. - It's really interesting. It's like a branch, it's like an undiscovered, under-researched branch of physics.

And I think that we should be rigorously studying and investigating all this ancient stuff and trying to figure out, essentially reverse engineer it, right? It's like if someone dropped a electric motor out of the sky 200 years ago and it landed in front of you, what would you do?

You would try to reverse engineer it. That's what humans do, right? You even try to learn, we try to advance science by reverse engineering nature. Studying spider cobwebs, for example, right?

And trying to figure out can we make a material that emulates those properties, you know? There's a lot of material science these days is based on studying nature, yet we refuse to study the stuff that's right in front of us.

- Isn't it like 100 times stronger than steel cable or something? - It's something insane. Yeah, if you look at it on like a strength to weight ratio, right? So if you were to magically scale it up to be the size of a steel beam or steel cable, right?

So absolutely. And so we're looking at animals and nature plants to try to figure out, can we come up with some better way to create solar panels? But we won't, we actively refuse and shut down any kind of scientific pursuit to look at ancient technology.

- The conspiracy theorist in me jumps to the conclusion that if you look at what is the best thing to have to control people, it's energy and therefore money as well. So money and energy used to kind of the same thing.

Money, energy and time are kind of all intertwined. - Yes. - So if you wanted to control people, those would be the things to control. So then if someone's meddling around and finding a way to create energy that is abundant, then it means you don't have the control over that and therefore you're fucked basically.

So it would make sense that if there is an ancient technology that allowed that and maybe they didn't care about control, maybe they cared about moving the world forward in a more positive way rather than control, then you'd want to hide that.

And then anyone who pops up like a Nikola Tesla or anyone like that, you'd want to suppress and control it. - And that's by the way why I say like I'm, I don't get deep into much of the conspiracy.

I know there's a lot of people with the controls and the weather manipulation and all that. - I'm not really into that. - I don't buy into any of that stuff. So like everything I've said today, I think actually has like a sound engineering kind of argument to it or has been well researched in books

by individuals that I find to be credible, right? So that's why I try to, and that's the problem with this stuff where oftentimes you try to go into this rabbit hole and then you're faced with so much stuff that sounds crazy that you kind of run away.

- Yeah, well, I always look at it as like incentives. It's like the flat earth is, I'm like, why? It's like, you know what I mean? Like why? - Agreed. - Just doesn't make any sense. And then it's like the chemtrails, the same thing.

It's like, why don't you just fucking put it in the water? Why are you going to put it in a plane and have huge containers, which is why you're fucking ton. And then have everyone in on this and then spray it.

You just put it in the water. You don't fucking need to go. - And the flat earth stuff, like, well, how do you think we have satellites? Like are you joking? - It's all fake. - It's the most stupid thing.

You could go launch your own right now. Like it's the most stupid thing I've ever heard. - It's all fake. And then all the imagery is fake and everything from NASA is fake. And they spend all this time making fake images.

It's just, yeah, again, it's like, why, why, why, why? But the control of energy and the suppression of information about something that you can't control, like UFOs, like, I don't know what it is.

It makes you look weak. That I'm like, it makes sense. Yeah, you would want to do that. - And there's some anecdotes with the Nikola Tesla around the fact that, you know, he was studying this wireless energy transmission technology and he presented it to Rockefeller and other investors who were funding his research.

- Right. - And it couldn't be metered. That was the whole point, right? Is that you're basically sending electricity through the ionosphere of the Earth. And then, theoretically, you would be able to somehow build another one of these towers anywhere else on Earth and be able to access that electricity that's going through the ionosphere.

I don't know about the free aspect to it. I don't know where the electricity is coming from, but at least from the principle of being able to somehow take electricity and shoot it into the ionosphere and then be able to kind of put up a tower somewhere else in the world and grab some of that electricity that's just flowing around.

That principle, I think, is what he was pitching to Rockefeller. And as soon as these guys realized it can't be metered and therefore you can't charge for it, they cut all his funding and they made him look like a nut job.

- But of course. - And I think he naturally became, even though he was always kind of like a weird guy, that he naturally went crazier and crazier 'cause you could imagine the desperation to build this technology and the complete inability to get any funding, essentially being fully canceled from society and deemed like a crackpot

before there was internet. I mean, wouldn't you go crazy? - Oh, 100%. I mean, and especially if you're pitching that to Rockefeller, which is standard oil, wasn't it? So it's like, right, they control energy and then you're coming to them and you're saying, listen guys, you control everything.

I've got this thing which takes away all your control and all your power and all your money to fund it. - But also they were funding his research. I don't think they realized that was what he was going to try to build.

I'm sure they thought he was gonna build just like how he did Niagara Falls with Westinghouse. I think they thought he was gonna build some better electricity, a better technology to either generate electricity or transport electricity, right?

Not this free wireless energy. Like, can you imagine like a venture capitalist funding that, thinking that it was gonna be a startup that was trying to build some awesome new electric generation technology.

And then what they actually go and build is like a completely free energy transmission. I mean, you would immediately stop funding that. And if anything, if you were funding other companies that were working on similar technology, you would probably try to discredit this company, right?

And you would try to stop that technology from coming out because it would cause immense harm to all your other investments. Yeah, I think that's what happened, you know, with Tesla. And so I think it's insane to think that, you know, over a hundred years later, we haven't made any public progress towards working on any of those ideas.

And I do think that there is some tie-in with looking at the ancient technology as a way to figure out what could be done. And I think that could be an explanation for why so much of this stuff is suppressed.

But it still brings me back to, you know, what the hell are these UFOs flying around because it's one thing repressing, or it's one thing stopping people from exploring these ancient sites and creating a very clear narrative in the history books and education and history classes as to what are the exact history of humanity and all that.

But it really hurts your case when there's all these little orbs and discs and tic-tacs flying around. (laughs) - I'll tell you something, I haven't said on air before. So after having the conversation, so I did two with Chief Bitcoin.

We were chatting off air for a while and 'cause he told his story about seeing this UFO and I was like, "That's fucking amazing." Maybe like a week after that, we're still chatting away and I felt a bit more comfortable with him.

But after having the last conversation with him, I had like a bit of a nightmare about it and it like brought him back to me. About 10 years ago, I was a stay at my auntie's house. No drugs involved, no drink involved, like nothing.

Like really into my fitness, like very, very health-conscious at that time. I went on a run, she's like out in the middle of nowhere, countryside in the UK. Running back, it's getting darker, sun's going down and it's like farmland, basically.

Running along this road and I see this orb thing like a glowing, almost like a sun when it's setting that kind of like low dim light and like spherical. And I'm like, "Oh, what the fuck is that?"

So first I was like, "Ah, that looks to me like, "I don't know, maybe it's like a torch or something like that." Like someone's shining it from the other side of the field and it's going along the head row and I was like, "That's weird."

I start moving towards it. As I start going closer towards it, I see I'm like, "That's actually much bigger than I would think. "That's not a torch." And that looks spherical, so how would the light?

And I kind of just like, I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna have a look." So I start walking around the side of this barn and the thing moves from probably 200 meters in maybe half a second, like, bang, it's at the other side.

And I was like, "Whoa, that's fucking weird." I wasn't scared, I was like, "That's weird, like, what is it?" I start walking around again, I'm like walking around the side of this barn, trying to see it.

Then suddenly I had this, I went from like, "I'm interested, what is this thing not scared at all?" To suddenly really fearful and felt like it was watching me. It was like an instant like, "Whoa, this thing's watching me, "it's tracking me."

And as I start moving around the barn, it starts going the other way. And I was like, "Oh, I got this like real flash of light. "I'm really uncomfortable now." And then it starts going at me, like just going straight towards me.

And not because I'm like hard or tough, just completely instinctively, I was like, "I've got a fucking run at it." So I just sprinted and then I can't remember anything. And I'm back at my auntie's house.

And that was about 10 years ago. And I'm pretty sound mind, like I don't see weird shit. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm not like, "Oh, I've seen loads of aliens "and ghosts and shit." And weirdly, I never talked to him about it or like really thought about it anymore.

'Cause I was like, "I don't know." Just sort of like went from my head. And then after having the conversations with Chief Bitcoin, I had that weird like, "I got really freaked out." And I was like, "Oh, yeah, I can't really remember "anything after that conversation."

So that's me like having an experience of something. Don't know what the fuck it is. You know, I can't explain that. But I'm like, "There's shit there there." And he was like saying, "Oh, it's, I can't remember."

He said like, "Orange is a certain orangey pinky color. "It's like a certain thing and that." And I'm like, "I just don't know. "It doesn't mean anything to me. "I don't know." But I could tell that it's not like, it's not anything that you would see in a zoo.

It's not human, right? You know, sometimes when you know someone's watching you, that we have our ceiling. That's what I got of like, went from like, "Oh, I'm just interested too. "I'm really creeped out.

"This thing's fucking tracking me." - That's crazy. - You know, there's something there. So I don't know. Maybe that's one of the reasons where I'm a bit more open to thinking there's stuff.

But there's shit going on in this world that we can't understand. - Yeah, that's crazy. I wish I'd had a story like that at the same time I don't. Yeah, that's, I'm glad you shared on there.

I bet you're gonna get other people saying, you know, similar things, but yeah, I mean, this is, I think this is a fundamental aspect of humanity in some way. And, you know, the fact that it's 2023 and there are certain topics that are just considered completely taboo, I think that needs to end.

You know, I think even just like what you said, you just said a second ago, that feeling when you know someone's like staring at you or watching you, I mean, why are we not researching that?

Everyone, everyone knows exactly what that feeling is. But from our modern science, they would say that's ridiculous. You're just imagining it. - Yeah, and how often are you right? And how often would you feel like there's something wrong and you're exactly, do you ever have this way?

You think of someone, someone random as fuck and then they'll message you. - Oh, it's crazy. No, of course, all the time. And actually I experienced this a lot where, especially with like close family members, you know, like if I think like, oh, I need to, if I have a thought like, oh, I need to call my mom.

She's probably gonna call me right now now that I said that on air. But I mean, more than half the time I will get a phone call within like a minute. It's extremely bizarre. And I experience it all the time now.

And I kind of just embrace it and laugh at it. Why are we not researching that? Everyone experiences that. So I think there's just these entire domains of the human experience that are either taboo or, you know, unacceptable to research or think about or talk about.

- Yeah, you can't talk about a lot of stuff. Like that story, like, I didn't bother talking to anyone 'cause I was in a normal job. The people around me, they've just been like, well, you're obviously on drugs or...

- Yeah, it hurts your credibility and reputation. - Almost different to that. Like I almost didn't want to have the conversation 'cause I didn't want like to be questioned. I was like, I don't really care.

But I don't want them like coming up with all the stupid stuff like, oh yeah, well, you've just been on a run. So you didn't have enough oxygen. I'm like, listen, you can't. I fucking run every day, right?

I don't make weird shit up. I don't see ghosts all the time. Like, I know what I see. Like, oh, you can't trust what your eyes are seeing. It could have been a reflection from something. It's like, no, when you see something and you're 100% sure of what you see, so then trying to explain to somebody

and then come up with every sort of weird excuse, a bit like the pyramid. It's like, oh yeah, it was definitely this and there would have been hand tools. You're like, I'm looking at it. It isn't, it wasn't built with hand tools.

It's like, there is fucking day. - Well, I gotta actually hop off in a second, Max. - Yeah. - I got a meeting coming up, but this was fun. - You haven't even thought of it today. - This was, I know, I actually have to go back to reality now, but now this was fun, you know, to just be able to-- - Yeah, it was awesome.

- Try opening up. And I don't talk too much about this, usually to anyone, really. My co-founder Jacob and I talk about this stuff all the time, the fiance, and we'll sometimes let me talk about it, or I just sit here down in front of the TV and make her watch the UFO show, or we watch ancient apocalypse together, you know.

But I don't actually talk about this too much, so I really enjoyed this. - Yeah, me too. Well, anytime on or off air, it's always good to chat to you. - Oh, and if you can get a Jimmy Corsetti on, I mean, that would be incredible.

- Well, he said yes. I'm trying not to push too hard or be too annoying, 'cause I know he's busy, but he said yes, so fingers crossed. - Awesome. - All right, mate, well, yeah. I'll let you get on with the important stuff, but yeah, always good to speak to you, and we'll catch up soon.

- Awesome. Thanks, Max. - Cheers, mate. - Thanks for listening. I really hope you enjoyed that episode. I loved recording. I love talking about this kind of stuff, so if anyone has any questions or wants to reach out, please feel free.

Thanks again to everyone who's been supporting the show by podcasting 2.0 apps, and a big thank you to Zach and the foundation team for supporting the show. catch you on the next one.