BIT BUY BIT PODCAST EP03 K.Brown

Hello, welcome back to bit by bit. Today's episode wasn't really supposed to be an episode. I'd sat down for just a general casual chat with Karen Brown. We discussed a variety of topics, but something that really has been grabbing my attention recently is the amount of protests

going on globally. People are fighting for a variety of different reasons. They're standing up for what they believe in, but they're generally being ignored. Many of the things they're fighting for are very important. Many of the things they're fighting against are very important,

but they're being ignored. I think there's a much more efficient and effective way to protest. So we decided to press record. It's only a short episode today, but I hope you get something out of it. I think it's important that we discuss these sort of things. I think it's important we

do stand up. But if there's a way we can do it more efficiently, then I think it's worth exploring. Anyway, we're going to jump straight in, and I hope you enjoy it. Yeah, because I think what we stumbled upon was this idea that actually going out and protesting

with placards does fuck all to change them, because what you're basically doing is going, "Oh, hey, Mr. Government, man, would you please listen to us and do what we want?" And they go, "Have you got billions of pounds to give me?" No, no, fuck you. Then I'm going to talk to my mates

in the corporations, and I don't really give a shit. If the people are right in the streets, as long as they're not truly causing massive amounts of civil unrest, they'll just ignore you as much as they can. Or they'll say, "Well, we hear what we're saying. We think it's really

important. What we're going to do is we're going to put guidelines in place so that by the next day, we plan to do this." And then they won't do that. Or they'll do some form of that. Or they'll be small. They'll be little caveats.

Yeah, tiny little bits, little token gestures along the way that will slowly add up to barely anything. If they don't do what they say they're going to do, there's no comeback. We just have to just take it. We just have to accept it. Whereas if you control the money,

you control the power, which means they have one option, which is tax you more, rather than inflating, which is really going to piss people off. We notice the tax rates going on. If they say we're increasing the tax on something, people get pissed off. But when they say our inflation's going on, people don't get so upset. And why is that?

Well, it's skewed data. No, yeah. What you said earlier is that no one understands what inflation is. We just think it's something that happens. My thought was inflation was something you couldn't help.

It was just that's what it was this year. I think what really confuses there is why I've realized more and more recently, or at least this is my theory of what I've done to understand, that the unit of measurement remains the same. For the pound?

Yeah. So like a meter is a meter. If you imagine trying to build something like a road or a building or something, and you said that over time, your unit of measurement that's a meter starts off at 100 centimeters, and then it goes to suddenly 101 and 105 and 140.

It's the other way, isn't it? It's getting shorter, isn't it? So you need more rulers to measure the same thing. But well, my point is imagine trying to plan building when your unit of measurement is ever changing. And that's what we do with our money system. And that's why all these forecasts and

all of these predictions made by economists who don't generally run business or have any idea what it's like in the real world. It's all just modeled. Those people assume that their models are going to work in the real world. Whereas people who are actually running a business

are constantly coming up with problems like, oh shit, my money's not going as far. I can't forecast because I don't know what my interest rates are going to be. And right now, they're really, really low. So I'd better borrow as much money as I can now.

But then what if those interest rates spike? Can you service your bet? So there's this ever changing kind of, and that's why we have these market cycles. You're here like people were saying, oh yeah, I'm on this salary, you know, I'm learning, I've got this amount of pounds. They do. But their pounds are not what they were

yesterday all the day before. And I think that's where the confusion is. I think we've got to a point where now we look back and we realize how much further our money used to go. Like it even just little things like, it's not what really kills me as much.

I used to be able to go into a supermarket. I thought you went in a munchy, but you know those munchy bars, you remember them? It's like, I think it was pretty, it's called munchies. It's like a chocolate. Yeah, they're in a red packet with the gold for you.

I thought you were specifically talking about the price of munchies. Munchies? Well, I am talking about the price of munchies. But like, I used to be like a pound 50 or two pounds. I could go in a supermarket and come out with a feast. Do you know what I mean? Like, you talk to me like you get some scotch eggs,

some crisps, some milk shake, and some chocolate. Do you know what I mean? So you've got, you've nailed all your bases. So you could probably walk away with that for like two pounds. But now the, the milkshake alone is like a £1.20 in some places. Like I can get,

I can get a one liter milkshake in Lidels Rowdy for 75 P, which is a bargain. But like, I remember when that stuff used to be like 60, 70 P from, and you know, it's got to be the same. Everything, everything's crept up so much.

Crisps seem to be insanely expensive now. Really? Yeah, like in a weird way. And the selection is less. I've noticed that going on the supermarket, there's less selection and higher prices. So now, if I'm like, I was trying to grab, you know, a carry bag of munch, like I used to be able to do, well, this doesn't mean a lot harder.

The family brands are more expensive and there's less choice of them. And, you know, I can't buy for less. But yeah, but that's, I think it's that unit of measurement. So if you said to someone every year, right, you're on 30,000 pounds for the year next year, because of inflation,

we're going to pay you 27,000 pounds. They don't understand that. Yeah, I'm getting less money. Because none of the price of goods stayed the same. Yeah. Whereas now it's maybe number bigger than last year, good. But everything else has gone up

by more. So actually, you're worse off than you were, but numbers bigger. And I think that is where people struggle with it, because it doesn't make sense. No, and this is the, I think this is one of the more fundamental concepts that you really need to communicate to people, is that you think

you know money people talk to Max, because you don't know money. That's what that's what the conversations come up is when I'm talking to you, I think, fuck, I don't understand money. Like I still, I've learned a lot about what money means, gold standard, backed by various

things, I understand about stores of value now, and inflation. But there's still an awful lot about it that you just... It's a weird, well, I would say in the same way when I speak to you about physics, I'll understand now that I spend enough time with you, basic little parts of like,

okay this is how much huge the universe is, and this is how crazy small these quarks or whatever they are that you're talking about, and all this stuff, and I understand like a basic bit of it, but if I had to actually explain it to somebody, I'd have no idea, because it's too complex, like

it's such a massive field, and it has such complex language as well. Well, that, yeah, we're talking to someone about this today, and obviously the idea is that complex language or technical language is shortcuts. You know, we were talking earlier about Bitcoin, I was like, one, you know, you sent

me a link of Andreas Antonopoulos talking, I was like, what the fuck is he? He's talking about hashing and stuff, I was like, what is he shading in? What is it like cross-shading and cross-hatching?

But obviously now we had a long conversation about what the hash rate was and what it meant, and it's like, oh, oh no, I get what hash, but so to explain, if you didn't use the word hash, you just said, oh, people guessing what the number was until they got it right, and then everyone

checking it and said back and going, hey, we've got the right number. Like, it, it, you can't fit that in a sentence. And that's more the Bitcoin side in there, but in terms of the finance side.

But it's the same thing though, like we talk about inflation, that's an idea, you know, where government's basically print more money, because the money actually doesn't mean anything, there's no finite limit to the amount of money, but if they print more money, it means it's worth less.

Yeah, but then also, the problem is they'll say things like, oh, well, inflation's only 3% or 2% or whatever, whatever they, depending on the country. I mean, some are ridiculous when they're hyperinflating, but the, you know, countries like England and America, they'll say, oh, well,

inflation's, you won't barely know 6% of a few percent. Yeah, they don't take into the group where it's that, and it's the compounding, that money over time that's being taken, you don't have that as an investment, and then that's not compounding, then that's not.

So you have to take that into account, and also the metrics they use to measure it are not truthful, because they don't take a lot of things into account. Where they will say to you, oh, well, it's only 2% or 3%, actually, no, it's probably more like 10.

And then you add on the taxes on top of that, and then you add on your fuel taxes, and you get into the millions, and also we've had austerity where certain parts of the workforce have had their wages frozen, so their wages haven't gone up, the wages have stayed the same,

there's no inflational rise, I mean, I was subject to that, and then, like- Which is ridiculous, your job is arguably the most important job in society, because you're teaching the next group of people who are going to try and service the debts that we're bringing on now, you're teaching them to be people who can-

With a handful, isn't that? It's like the handful of things that people would say we need in a society. Teachers. Our doctors, firemen, police officers, teachers, you know, I think they said we really need education, healthcare, and security, you know, and emergency services, and that's it.

But those people are the ones who are having their wages cut, and then they've got inflation, and the people who make the decisions to make those cuts are the ones who earn more money. So it's, it just, yeah, it doesn't sit right with me at all.

Now that I've gone and spent all this time to try and unravel it, I always felt in my stomach some things wrong, but I couldn't fully put my finger on it and explain that, and now that I can, there definitely was something wrong, and now I feel like, oh, well, I've got this

secret that I want to explain to people, because it upsets me, because I see it in my everyday life, people are having a hard time, and a lot of people close to me having a really hard time, and I understand actually why and who's benefiting from them having a hard time,

and it's really upsetting, and I wish I could explain it in more simple terms to people. It's not hard. That's the problem. It's, it's like, if you want to lose weight, you need to eat less and move more. It's so simple that it's staring you right in the face,

and you know, it can't be that, it can't be that simple. I just think to someone to talk about evolution the other day as well, and like, it was so obvious the idea of these random mutations and natural selection, but it was staring scientists in the face, and it took someone

really smart to go, actually, it is quite obvious. Taking a bigger view of just like, yeah, taking that step back and just going, well, obviously it's just a split. Let's try and find some proof for it. But like, we, no one's going to debate you on this. I don't think anyone's going to say.

They are. That's the thing. Really? Yes. Firstly, they'll debate me and say that we need inflation. We need inflation. People, yeah. People, almost every single mainstream economic, and could they tell you what, what inflation they have?

Well, the people who are in that field, people who are in finance will tell you that apart from people who have the Austrian school of thought, and people will also argue and say Bitcoin's nonsense.

So people have really strong opinions on it, but they don't understand it at any level. I'm yet to have somebody on or speak to anyone who comes up with, who says to me, I'll become nonsense. And then I say, okay, can you explain to me why it's nonsense?

No one can articulate anything that makes any sense. And if they come up with something, and I then say, well, actually, no, because here are the facts of why what you're saying is wrong.

They don't want to accept it. It's really uncomfortable, and it's really weird. It's not what they're used to. See, when I learn about Bitcoin and the whole system, I think if not Bitcoin, then something like it.

I mean, like the idea that it shouldn't be centralized money in the banks and, you know, the bank goes under your money disappears, and that's it. You know, there's the South Park episode where you've got your first dollar and he goes to invest in the bank and we put your money

in the bank and it's gone. Like, say everything's just disappearing and it's like, well, where's my money gone? Where's the poor person on the street's money gone? And we all know in our hearts that what's happening is some banker is retiring after fucking up, after losing billions of pounds,

and he's retiring to a fucking James Bond villain mansion, like on a private island, and he's got no problems. And we're like, oh, where did all the money go? Why am I still poor? And we don't join the dots. We don't like to see. This is the thing is like, we don't, but we do,

because I've noticed recently on Netflix that there's more and more documentaries about banking. There's loads of documents. I'm pretty sure they hold heavy stacks of Bitcoin. They've been releasing all of the Southern banking, the Panama Papers, which is a day to

league. If anyone is listening and you actually want to check that one talking about his own absolute bullshit, go and look through the Panama Papers. It talks about this sort of nine or 10 trillion, I think it is, offshore money. And it's all the politicians and bankers and bureaucrats,

everyone who we're supposed to look up to and respect and who's handling your money and taking control of it, they're stealing it, they're putting it offshore, they're paying no tax, and they're putting it in shell companies where they can't be touched. And it seems that there's more and more

information out there. We've got films like The Wolf of Wall Street and The Big Shore, and more of this mainstream accessible information. The other guys don't hear that. That's got a strong political message at the end of that. The other guys. Oh, yeah, yeah. It says at the end, it talks about like

Bernie Madoff and his policies and all this kind of stuff. Yeah. And so all of the information is out there. We all have the internet. We can all fact check it. I think actually it's too uncomfortable for people. I don't think it's too uncomfortable. I think it just sounds like a conspiracy theory.

And if you go, "Well, what are you going to do about it?" It's just the way of the world. It's kind of a little bit like a fish moaning about sharks. I think that's going back to your original point is, no matter how many fish you get in a shuttle, like they can go in and try and attack the shark

and go, "Oh, they're not going to do anything." The shark's still going to go, "Now, if I'm queuing, you need to be a shark." That's what we need to do. Instead of going out there protesting existential rebellion, you need to go, "Actually, we need to be as big and bad as us as you."

I've tried to explain to people. I've tried to say Bitcoin is a shark. It's a megalodon. Yeah. It really is. Ways to rise. And they will always come up with this as their argument. Almost every single time they'll say, "Yeah, well, the big boys will just swoop in. The banks

and governments will swoop in. They'll shut it down." And I understand thinking that because, obviously, they have the big boo. They can come down. They can stomp you. They have unlimited fun, unlimited resources. They have all the guns, all the military. They're the biggest mafia in the

world. And you want to try and fuck with them and take over their money. Good luck. But what they don't understand is Bitcoin has been designed specifically because that boom has been stomping down for the last 50 years. And they've stomped on eGold and DigiCash. And everyone has tried to

have a company that does a similar thing. They've stamped down gold. They've controlled that market. Anything that they can control, they will. So this has been made so that no one can control them.

And I think it comes down to the technical understanding how it technically works. That means that it doesn't matter how big or how strong or how much money you have. You can't stop this. That's the bit where if I could sit and make someone understand how Bitcoin works, but it takes

such a long time. It's two or three thousand hours. I don't know. It depends what you want to understand. Do you understand how it works? The mechanics of it, but you don't need to. I think in two or three hours, you can understand the general gist of what it does and how it's going to change things. But

along the way, you get a lot of shock revelations about what the real money in your pocket is. The problem is you can understand it after, say, two or three hours and explain the basics of it.

Some will go, "Okay, I get in theory." But they have to trust me that I understand how the mechanics of it work because I'm telling them, right, well, the government can't shut it down. Or it would be really difficult for them to shut it down. And no one controls it, but it works.

They have to just be like, "Oh, does it?" And I was like that. And then I thought, "Would you know what? I have to know if this is true." Because if it is, it's massive. So then I stopped everything I'd been doing for the last two years and I just studied this all the time,

like a lunatic. And now, because I've done all that, I'm like, "Well, I can't find any flaws in it. I've been trying for two years. I've been trying to find a problem with the system and trying to find a problem with, well, surely that the government are going to shut it down or surely the big banks

are going to come and sweep in. But I can't, I can't, like, they can't. I mean, they physically can't. Yeah, they can't. And that's, that's the thing where it's like, if you understand that actually you're being stolen from, especially the younger generation, I wrote an article, a blog post,

and then you think, "Yeah, and then it was mine." Because that's where the people that it upset me the most. You gain fucked over more and more every generation. Yeah. Like, I actually remember the '90s. Now, there's a guy who's a few years older than me, a handful of years, like five years

or something. But he didn't go to university. I don't think he, he, he, he, he was still able to leave school at 16 and get a job. And so, you know, I was still in secondary school. He finished, got a job in a shop, got a mortgage, because the banks were still giving out money in the

early to mid 90s. Yes, they did. 100%. Yeah. Got a mortgage and any, the house price went up. He's so, you know, he was, he's financially set. He's secure. He doesn't really do anything as a job.

The guy, literally, fucking blows up balloons. That's basically his job. Like, working in a, it's a joke shop and fancy dress and like design. But like, it's, it's, it's an unskilled work. Yeah.

Okay. But he said, because he was at a time when money was worth more, he got in working early, he got more, you know, got some money in his pocket and it was worth more money. He, he did do wise investments with it. Like, but few years later, huh, trying to do those same things,

now completely different. It's, it's not just been a downward slope. It's always been like, it's, it's like Red Bull Ram pages, drop offs and huge massive gaps that suddenly you dip. That's what anyone with assets, anyone from that age group who had assets of any kind,

whether stocks, bonds, commodities, property, whatever it is, if you had something and it was easier to get that something back then, then over the next 30 years, you had those things rising value because you've got this inflation and that's where the money goes into assets.

So what I was trying to explain in the article is, and this is one thing that's ridiculous. You've got this one generation calling the millennials lazy and you have all these stupid, it was mainly the papers who were doing it, not real people. And they're saying, oh, they're lazy and they're

not working as hard or whatever it is. And that's why they can't buy properties and, and oh, their, their lives are easy. And then you've got those people who don't feel that that's fair, who are then lashing out at the older generation and saying, oh, you've messed up the world, we've done this.

And you've got all this fighting, but actually, most people, when they're spending time together, those age gaps don't make any difference. They still want the same things. They still have the same models generally. And the divide is that all of the money, which is just debt,

which is like that credit expansion, all of that money that has gone into these properties and made these people wealthy, now that debt has to be serviced by the younger generation, because it's like having a massive credit card and they built it up over the last 30 years old national credit card.

Yeah. And then what they've said is, right, your turn to hold it millennials, you can't buy a house because it's now nine times your salary, rather than two and a half times. And your public transport is 10 times more expensive in real terms. And because you don't have the chance for actually

buy these assets, you're getting further and further and further behind. But, oh, and you're not going to have pension, and you're not going to have health care, and you're going to work till basically you die. Here you are. Here's the credit card. Pay that off for you. Yeah, I'm going to go

until I pay some gold. That's literally what's happened is that generation has passed the credit card on. The younger generation is now going, Jesus, I don't get any of the benefits that you had, but I've got to pay for yours. Andrew calling me lazy. The issue though is that average person

from my parents generation haven't done it to be big. They haven't bought a house and had all these benefits and had the life they lived thinking, oh, well, I'm going to pass this down to my children, they can pay for it. They wouldn't do that. They were just part of a system that has been saying,

well, we're going to owe money. We'll pay it later. We'll pay it later. We'll pay it later. And the heads of the central banks and the people in charge are saying, well, money is or debt is just money we owe to ourselves, but who's we? So it is an interesting question, Mike.

So when we talk about this, you very much believe in a flip, like the one day Bitcoin is just going to leap out of the water and it's going to be snapped. And I tend to be on the side of, it will be, it would be a slow war of attrition where Bitcoin slowly speeds up until it comes alongside it.

And then when they're racing side by side, Bitcoin will start to take over more. By the time it's got 55%, it's just it's over and it's inevitable. But it's not going to be a huge flip. The two systems will exist side by side for some period of time. Now, do you think that Bitcoin has the

potential to actually, because when you talk about a flip, maybe I want to believe in the slow system, because it scares me, that a flip would cause a crash and would cause problems. And I say flip, I don't mean overnight everyone's going to use this. But that could happen.

Not really. But like think about what, you know, the scenario I've just painted, which is Bitcoin slowly increases. Maybe you've managed to get all the people that support extension rebellion and nonetheless and all these people just start spreading the work

that actually we should all be investing in a non centralized banking system where we all use Bitcoin. People start to get the idea. People start to realize that actually their Bitcoin money that they're holding is becoming worth more over time and their cash is becoming worth

less. So people are getting paid and dumping all their money into Bitcoin and their Bitcoin wallets that link to Visa cards. So they're still able to use it in shops. But all the currency suddenly being taken straight out of the banks and held as Bitcoin. Now that takes money out of

the banking system. This is where it's clever is the banks have to buy the central banks and governments that have to buy. And it will be an arms race of who buys first who buy what Bitcoin they have to buy it. They have to add it to their strategic reserves because if everything

else they hold is being less and less valuable and to service their debts, they're having to pay more print more and more. So what if these fuckers hold on tooth and nail to the last minute and what happens is the rate of inflation of fiat money goes up. And those people those probably

the majority of people, 65, 75% of people that aren't using Bitcoin, they get fucked. Their money goes down the pan because the banking system collapses. And that this 15, 25% of people who have all 35 have invested in Bitcoin, they're okay. But is it possible that we have something where

two out of every three people gets messed over? Two out of every three people is going to be messed over anyway. Or one in three or some significant number where the Bitcoin system causes a change. And it's not that Bitcoin is causing a problem. It's that the banks

haven't adopted it. And it's suddenly they come crashing down the last they're holding up a facade. I mean, that's what they are doing. With all without Bitcoin, that's happening. And that's why it was invented. That's the whole reason it's been invented is because people smarter than the

bankers understand that actually this is going to collapse. We need to have a plan, but if we need to have another option, most people won't invest in this or hold any money in it until it's too late.

You said on a previous episode, and it's once their currency crashes and they start seeing that across two charts, their money is devaluing against Bitcoin massively, then they'll come in.

But to think that the big banks and hedge funds and central banks and people in government, to think that they're not already sniffing at this, I think would be naive. Well, it's safe to assume that they are personal. Yeah, they won't tell anyone.

But so they'll be fine. But these are the kind of people that would be like, "Well, I've got my money and I'm okay. I'll just keep playing the game by the rules, 'cause I earn loads of fiat money and I store it in Bitcoin and I'm happy and I'm safe."

They probably won't push for Bitcoin to happen because they want to maintain the status quo to keep themselves. Keep earning, keep having the control. So when I'm saying there's going to be a flip, I don't mean there's going to be a flip in value with Bitcoin and fiat.

What I mean is there's going to be a complete flip in control and power. And it's going to go from we are subservient to the government. They control us and corporations. Basically control you. Debt controls you as a slave.

We are all slaves to debt because we have to pay our mortgages and everything else. And if you don't work for a month, most people are in serious trouble. So what this does is it takes the powerbacks to people in that respect and also in terms of the way that things are moving in the world. And when we're talking about protests,

I was saying standing with a cardboard in the rain. I respect the people who are doing it and anyone who's fighting for freedom of speech, I completely support. But what I think is much more powerful is saying, "I'm not going to protest against your system anymore. I'm just going to exit it. We have a new system.

You can do what you're doing because we've been telling you for the last 30 years. We've been protesting about X, Y and Z. You're not listening. We're getting less and less freedom, less and less money, more and more control, more and more police state, more and more problems, more and more stress, less and less sleep.

Everything is getting more difficult for people and for what? When they can just say, "I've got enough. I'm going to do my own thing." Sorry. That and that's the thing is like public enemy said, "Fight the power."

Well, no, no. Listen to what raised against the machine said, "We've got to take the power back." I think that's what started with this whole conversation was you want to convince people to protest. The best way to protest is not to go up and ask the bankers and ask the moneymen

and the politicians, "Please do what I'm asking you to." I know there's no financial incentive for you to do that because you're already getting all the money anyway. We need to actually go, "Let's take the money off them." They've got their fingers into the traditional money,

the fiat money. Let's use different money because at the end of the day, as we've established, where does their money come from? They get their money from policing the common map. They get their money from making our money go less far, inflating our money, to making it worthless. Well, they chuckle that money into assets and wait.

Yeah. Well, they're not holding it in cash. They're putting it in property. And it's a circular economy. The other thing people I think struggle with is they look at this as a stock and they'll say, "Oh, it's gone up or it's down. They're looking like a stock or a company."

Rather than thinking, "Well, hold on. I don't need to buy it. It's money so I can earn it." So it's a circular economy. You can say, "Well, okay. I'm a graphics designer, but I'll do it for Bitcoin." Or, "I'm private tutoring, physics. I'll just do it for Bitcoin."

You don't then have to use fiat money to buy it. They don't have any control or KYC or AML or any of the stuff that they have. Well, someone's got to buy it or mine it. That's the thing. Someone's got to buy it or mine it. But once it's gone through the lightning network or

gone through any of these services, it's so obscured anyway. And it doesn't matter. It's not illegal to earn Bitcoin. It's not like it's illegal to do it. You just have to pay your taxes on it.

I was going to say capital gains. You'd have to pay your capital gains if you sell it. So they're making it very difficult in that respect. But we might. Oh, if you sell it. If you only sell it.

Oh, so when I was talking about the YRX account I got, so you end up with a Bitcoin wallet and you can link a Visa debit card. So you can buy Bitcoin. But I don't. When you buy it. When you spend it.

That is selling in the eyes of the UK government. Oh, because you are transferring it from one. It's not a bureau de shange. Yeah. So I don't know why we say bureau de shange. But that's how they class it. And the reason they class it like that is because it's an accounting

nightmare. So it makes it less accessible as a currency because of that. So you can't just spend it as Bitcoin because it can't show up on the thing as Bitcoin asset on the tail and the register as to show up as GBP's.

And that it requires you selling it. Yeah. So that's what that Visa card does is it will market sell upon your sale. Oh, right. Convert that to pounds and then use the pounds. So technically that's what's saying to you. That's just a hold.

It will come eventually where that will be possible. And we might care. Some person who has no chance and they're in the repressive government and their money, I mean, is they got some serious problems.

They don't care. They're not on a care whether it's illegal or legal because what's legal and what's moral is completely skewed, deliciously in that in those sort of countries is here as well.

It's across the world. What's legal and what's moral? They're two totally different things. Yeah, absolutely. So for those people, if A, they don't have access to banking in any way, shape or form at the moment, they can't build a website for someone in England and then get paid

money without using like money, gram or one of these wiring services or someone else with an account. Now they can download the wallet in 30 seconds, write down 12 seed words, which is just a backup store in case anything happens and they can transact anywhere in the world and earn Bitcoin,

earn in Bitcoin anywhere in the world in less than five minutes. And so in my opinion, that's what's going to spread it much quicker than just people buying on exchanges because the only people buying on exchanges now are nerdy, techy and it's a really

small demographic. But once it starts spreading and people realize, well, they don't just have to buy it and it's not a stock. This is money and it's a platform, a trust platform. When they get that, this thing then spreads fast, it like is exponential. And then it's

unstoppable. Then the government's right now, like if you're buying from an exchange, they have your AOC and AML and they can control effectively these exchanges are like banks. So they still impose all their banking regulations on their teams. But when we have decentralized

exchanges, which are getting better and better, and when we have peer-to-peer transactions and people are just building websites for each other, selling t-shirts to each other, there's loads that are on now where like you can play chess against each other and it's like how everyone

needs attention, puts your money down. Yeah, Fortnite and there's one called Light Knight that's coming out, which is like a Fortnite-type game where you can bet with Bitcoin on it. Once this stuff happens, you're going to have all these payments going all over the world.

You're going to have less and less of these sort of banks effectively because they won't just be their own bank. And then you've completely cut out the other financial system. It's just not in your life anymore. It doesn't have to be. In five minutes, it doesn't have to be.

If people really want to protest, take your money. Yeah, take your money out. Anyway, I think I've probably rambled enough there. That's a good 40 minutes. It's been interesting points that you raised that would be things to talk about for next time.

That's always happened. I mean, the conversation was like, oh, I need to mention that would be the next thing to talk about. That would be the next thing to talk about. There's a lot like, I think that people would be interested to hear that. We were always talking about the

journey that you have to go on to learn about it and what you learned. That would be interesting, like Bitcoin, basic Bitcoin one-on-one. I was thinking about doing a couple of videos and things like that, but like really breaking it down because what I found is when we're sitting

at these conversations, firstly, we've been talking about this stuff for like a year. Yeah. Secondly, I talk about this stuff all the time because I'm annoying obsessive weirdo, so the amount of exposure you've had to it is pretty big. I think we probably forget actually

what there's a lot of small questions. There's a lot of smaller questions and I'm thinking it'd be quite nice to just do like maybe little 10 minute videos or little 10 minute audio and it'd be like, "Right. What is mining? What is a node? How does the Bitcoin network work? You know,

explain it to me like I'm five. How do these things work? You mentioned Andreas Antonopoulos, the video I sent you. Now, he does some really good talks that helped me, but it probably took, I don't know, 150 hours before like something clicked where I was like, "Oh, shit. This isn't

just a way I work to make money. This is bigger. That's why I got so obsessed with it. I just once it clicked, because first of all, I need to do my due diligence. I need to make sure that if I'm going to invest money into this, I understand it to a basic level. I was just basically making

sure I covered my art and it wasn't really that interesting. But once it clicked for me, it changed things, but it did take a long time for it to click. So, trying to- I think there is a way to make it fairly direct to help people to understand what Bitcoin is,

like the model that we've produced earlier, which was the nodes, the miners and the wallets. I think that's a nice clear idea that there are basically three major players in what parts to the Bitcoin network and simplifying it, because I think a lot of the language people use

often when something's technical, like this is my issue with trying to research and learn about physics, is you've got these people that are really technical, but terrible communicators. I think Bitcoin is struggling with that. I don't think they're like Andrea Santonopoulos is

Bitcoin Jesus. He talks like a fucking autistic computer. Like literally, he does. Everyone does. He's not a normal human being, but he's also a robot. He's like, I doubt, I reckon if he took his trousers off, it'd be like an action man, just like he's not fully

functional in every way they perform. He's created and didn't finish him off. I have a lot of respect for them, man. Without honestly- Did he talk about the political sociopath? That's his main point. Because I've heard of one, you know, I think there's a famous podcast

with that comedian UFC for I can't remember his name. But yeah, he's got a fairly famous podcast, and Andrea Santonopoulos has been on that a couple of times, and he doesn't really talk much about the socioeconomic change. He talks more about the, he does talk about the unfairness

of fear banking. But I don't think he really delves deep into this, like, the morals and ethics. That will be more when he does his talks, so he does a lot of speeches and talks. And actually, that's where I've learned the best information. Because when he does interviews, he's trying to,

you know, he's got an hour to explain- He's trying to sell Bitcoin as a concept. Yeah, I guess so. And he's trying to push- So if he starts talking about all the socio-economic things and the history of money and all this stuff, to get all of that across in an hour is really

hard. So I found what was the best way I learned was just listening, because a lot of it is socio-economic. And the reason I liked listening to what he was talking about is that's what made me interested, because I thought, well, yeah, okay, it's cool and it can make money. But, you know, what he didn't

grab my attention. But once I understood, actually, the changes it can make and how, how really unfair the system is, yeah, it grabbed my attention. But it is, it's a long time. So I need to sit down and just try and sort of simplify that. No, as best I can. Even if I don't get someone to ever buy

Bitcoin, I just want them to realize, just wake up, just look around, just look around- Just what's actually going on. Wake up, you're in the worst position and you've got less freedom. Why?

Right. Yeah, that's it.