Bitcoin Consciousness with @SamaKatharo

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.

Let's go!

Now, what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison. Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero. Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!

Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! All right, you ungovernable misfits. I'm your host, Max. Everybody knows that Bitcoin is useless, worthless, and doomed to fail. But what if everyone's wrong?

What if it's the system that is doomed to fail? Join me as I speak to some of the brightest people in the world. Join me as I speak to everyone in the space and deliver to the deepest, darkest depths of the Bitcoin rabbit hole.

Welcome back to Bit by Bit. I am sat in a field recording this intro. I run out of time and we're on a little family get away with a few Bitcoiners. So it won't be a long intro. Just a quick one to say I really enjoyed this conversation.

I'm not sure I'm even going to get time to get out of the show notes. So make sure to follow Samma, it's @SammaCatharo on Twitter, and he runs the consciousness podcast if you search for that.

It's a dot onion website to access the pod, but I will post that at some point or just go to @SammaCatharo, it's @SAMA, @KATH, @ARO. I really enjoyed chatting to him. It was good for me to learn about something I have very little understanding on, but yeah, really nice guy, really interesting conversation and I hope you enjoy it.

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I hope you enjoy the show, I'm now going to go and chat to some Bitcoiners, the few beers in a field, might even do some recording, so keep your ears open and listen for a few shows that will be dropping over the next coming days.

Enjoy the show. Can you hear me? I can hear you now. Yeah, welcome to the show. It's really nice to finally chat to you. It's been a while organizing this, and I'm sorry I had to move it before, but I'm looking forward to chatting about something a little bit different today.

For anyone who hasn't already found your podcast, I definitely suggest going over. I just listened to your episode with GG, and it's refreshing to listen to something outside of the tech side and the finance side, and it's been something that's been swimming around

my head quite a lot, a lot of the stuff that you've been talking about, so I'm really excited to have a chat with you today, and welcome to the show. Thank you. Also, in my mind, I have had some concepts swirling around since yesterday thinking about this conversation.

Awesome. Well, for people who haven't already come across your podcast, do you want to do a bit of a rundown of, I mean, we've talked a bit in the background, but a bit of a rundown of where you're leaning with it and the types of conversations that you have, and maybe a

little bit about why you've entered the space and doing what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah, so my life changed a lot about 20 years ago, when the spiritual world opened up to me. So I had to learn how to deal with the spiritual world as well as the physical world.

And so it's been a big part of my life trying to figure out with all these energy bodies. So it's a physical body, and it's the energy body, so it's like having two bodies in two different worlds at the same time.

And when I came into Bitcoin and realized this amazing community of freedom loving people, I was just thinking, what can I do? And everyone brings their talents and gifts to the community, to strengthen the community, to make it better.

So it seemed natural to me to bring in my spiritual experience of other realities and so on, and to then see this from a Bitcoin perspective. So that's what I've been doing. Yeah. And so you go into the spiritual side of things, I guess, maybe slightly the religious kind

of things and a lot of Bitcoiners, especially when they've been in for a certain amount of time, or they've thought about Bitcoin for a certain amount of hours, it does start to drum up questions about what the fuck is this thing and what does it mean?

Because a lot of us come in either from the tech side or the finance side. The last thing that you're thinking when you come into Bitcoin is I'm going to meet a group of people that might end up being my best friends.

I'm going to think about things to do with like, who am I and where am I going and what's important to me in the world and how are things going to change? You're not really considering those type of things.

Generally, a lot of people are thinking, I want to get rich and buy more shit. It's so interesting to see how many people come into this space and I guess get changed or maybe sidetracked from the life that they would have otherwise lived.

It's something that I've certainly found myself and many other people that I speak to. And yeah, when we first spoke about you coming on the show, I was thinking, well, sounds really interesting, but is this a show I want to do because I generally focus more on the tech side and privacy side mainly.

But the more I thought about it and sort of mulled over in my head, I thought, this is a really interesting conversation because I think I can learn a lot from someone like you who's thinking about this all the time and try to understand maybe what it means because a lot of the time I'm pretty fucking confused about it myself.

Yeah. Yeah, I think it happens with the mental constructs because if we are born into society, we are taught to believe that our thoughts and our mental constructs are sort of real. And when people come into the Bitcoin rabbit hole, they see that so many other mental models,

the mental constructs are wrong because the financial system. So I think then they start questioning how if all of these like these sets of thoughts that I believed was true was not correct, then what else is there that is not correct?

And then maybe you think about spirits and so on also. Is this how you have sort of started questioning other things in life? I guess for me, it was slightly different because I was always massively anti-authority I've always had a massive problem with anyone trying to tell me what to do or how to live

or how to think and it made life particularly difficult in my younger years. And the reason I found Bitcoin was because a friend reached out to me and basically explained like, pretty much and this is fucking money, like this is no one can touch you.

And that instantly attracted me because I had no trust. I was already at a stage where I really despised government and these control structures and always wanted freedom to do and think and say what I wanted.

But I do think that it's changed me in the sense that I guess I think quite a lot more deeply about the future. I think a lot more deeply about family, the importance of like real connections.

Maybe some of that is age as well but it's definitely changed my perception of like the reality that I want to create around me. It's much less about actually money and more just literally the freedom to say what I want and to be truthful.

Like I think that's a big theme with Bitcoin is like once you understand part of what this thing is and what it's about, it's like I just want to be able to be truthful and I can be wrong but I want to just say what I feel as long as I can do that and I'm happy.

And so I don't really understand the ways that it's changed me but I know it has. And I think probably mainly for the better but I wouldn't say I'm a spiritual person. That's why I was so interested to talk to you is because I don't understand it but I also don't dismiss it.

And I guess I can accept that there's a lot I don't know and don't understand and there certainly seems to be something there because spirituality and gods and all this stuff has been talked about for thousands of years.

There are certain themes that run through that seem to make sense and seem to feel right. Like I'm like, okay, that feels like that would be reasonable and that would be right a lot more than what we're told in school that society tells us is right today.

So it's interesting but I'm very lost in that realm. Yeah, let's see how we can build some bridges between these different worlds. I mean, for me, it was really when I woke up to the spiritual reality, like it's like a spiritual awakening.

I had like three near deaths in the span of five years between I was 20 to 25. So it was really hit in my face like this is more to reality, boof, boof, boof, it was just so much going on.

So it was just really shown to me and I couldn't ignore it. But this, what you say about freedom, free speech and being able to say the truth, this was really a big part of that because I just felt that Jesus was talking about this and all these guys throughout history, everyone is talking, it's this spiritual reality out there.

And I just felt that the governments and the schools, they just ignore this spirituality. Well, for me, it just became so obvious that I couldn't ignore it, right? And then I felt that it was this huge cover up that it's some people in the world that is trying to hold humanity down because when we come into the spirituality, we just get

so much creativity and like power from within, you know, and it's like, yes, you want to create and you want to imagine and you want to do all this stuff because you have this soul is sort of awakening inside, right?

And then it just feels like the governments, they don't want this to happen. They want humanity to be as fearful as possible. They want them to be as, you know, compliant as possible. So that's when I started my freedom fight also, I started it sort of from a spiritual

angle where it's just like human potential just when it when I opened up in me and I saw, oh my God, it's so much potential here. Imagine if all humans would open up to this source within them and we will have we would have a completely different world in a couple of years rather than just people following commands all the time.

So I think we can connect with that freedom part there, don't you think? I think definitely and for the most part, the Bitcoiners that I've met are very freedom loving. It's very important to the people that I've spent time with and I know exactly what you mean.

It does feel like there is a suppression and it would make sense how Bitcoin works is because of incentives and it wouldn't work without that and the incentives for people who want to control is to keep people fearful, it is to keep them dumbed down.

Making them dumbed down and scared makes them say, okay, I'll go to my nine to five, I'll sit in a little office, I'll get a paycheck, I'll spend it on shit that makes you more powerful. I won't believe in anything beyond my life.

I'll believe that definitely when I die, I die and that's it because then it puts more control even on that because if you truly believe, well, there's something more important than my life, you're not fearful of death.

That's worrying probably for these people. So they want you to be scared on every level and yeah, it seems to make sense like it's very hard to prove. You can say they, they want to control and then people will say, well, who, who's they, you know, pin it down and it's really difficult to prove these things but certainly it feels

that it's that way and it would make sense that it's that way. I think once you start to break out of it, it becomes impossible to go back and fit in and when conversations are going on about whatever the current thing is.

I could never just shut my mouth and just be quiet, it's not possible for me. And so I'll never fit into the current society and I don't want to because it's really boring. I don't think it makes any real change and I think what we're doing here does what has the potential to make real change.

So yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people are in that same boat, but I was wondering like for you, you said 20 years ago, you had three near death experiences and that changed things for you.

Firstly, three in a year, were you just really clumsy or really unlucky or was the world trying to tell you something or like what happened? And secondly, can you remember like a light bulb moment where things changed or was it like a gradual process?

Oh yeah, it was over five years. So not over one year. Oh, sorry. Sorry, five years. Let's clumsy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, it looks like and many spiritual awakenings happen like that like it's the universe trying to wake you up from because we go in these patterns, just like loops and

then we need some kind of bigger events sometimes to really shake us out of it and start seeing things from a different perspective. And I mean, it was, it was a gradual shift because of these different events that I changed

from seeing myself as a physical person with like thoughts running in my head, then slowly I turn into this sphere of light is like, you know, like an energy body, right? So it's like one meter in all directions.

So when I close my eyes, I become this glowing ball of light. And then if I think about a person, that person's glowing ball of light comes into my awareness. So that's fucking cool. That happens all the time, like if you close your eyes now, that's what you see.

Yeah, that's how I live life. And the rational mind is sort of just a small part inside the bubble. So it's like, this is what I refer to as the base layer of creation, similar like Bitcoin is the base layer of money.

It's like when you drop all beliefs, all mental constructs, then that is what you come into. It's like the blueprint of reality. It's just that we are taught to be in our rational mind so much.

And we are, we are having all our focus on the rational mind. So we just see like, cash, we see like cookies of everything all the time. We don't see the reality. We just see subjective illusions of everything, like the map is not the territory, right?

But when, when we meditate enough to, to drop those, because they are put in place because of the fear of the system. So that if we have this fear from school and society, and that's why we are forced into our rational mind.

And that's why we live in these illusions as we can call them. They are just subjective thoughts, but we think that we see the objective reality. Are you following me on this? We're back.

I'm so sorry, this is just a constant problem every time I record now, and I don't know how to fix it. So yeah, apologies. Oh yeah, no worries. I tell you where we've got to now, because I've been fuming for the last like 50 minutes to fix it.

I can imagine. Yeah. I can't remember what to do. I was, I was trying to explain what was happening to me when this spiritual awakening is near death experiences that I had, and I was trying to explain it as a shift from identifying with a physical body and having thoughts in my mind that I thought were real.

And then to, after all of these near death experiences, like on the other side, when I closed my eyes, it's just this energy body around me, and inside of me, like energy centers in integrated with my body.

So then I started to identify with this more, or like 50/50. So I had a physical body and his energy body done. So this is where we were interrupted, I think. Yeah. And so I was thinking when you were saying this, I was like, okay, that sounds really cool.

But I was wondering, like, was that an instant switch? Like you had these near death experiences over that five year period. Was there a point where you closed your eyes and then you see this energy body?

Or is this something that you like worked on because you thought, okay, I need to make some changes for whatever reason, or you started meditating, or you did something that then made it so that you sort of saw yourself with having these two bodies, the energy body and the physical body?

Where's that zero to one moment? Because if I close my eyes, I can imagine stuff. I can see things if I want to, but I don't see my energy body. Like I'm wondering how that happens. Yeah.

So the process is appealing off of layers that we get in our childhood, that we get from our parents. It's like filters. I know it's like assumptions that we get from the school and society.

So as long as we have those intact, as long as we identify with the assumptions, how realities and who we are, then we were not able to see the energy body or experienced energy body because our attention is sort of blocked or it's already taken.

The information is sort of stuck in this sense. So it's the process is when we try to let go of this, we try to let go of the assumptions and then some experiences, some meditations and so on will be more of a-ha moment when

like several of these assumptions leave at the same time and then you can see some more. But it is a gradual process, it's just, does it make sense? It makes sense as in I understand what you mean.

It's so far from anything that I've experienced myself that it's difficult to obviously truly understand what it feels like to see this or think this way. But I also understand what you're saying about we have these kind of, I guess, blockages to things like this because I guess we box ourselves in with a lot of our beliefs and

the way we think things are and the way we perceive things and I guess, you know, it is programming from the second we're born to whenever we start to try and change things is like there's a programming of this is how you see the world, this is how things work,

this is how people live, this is, you know, and there's so many different boxes we put around ourselves of like what are we capable of? What can we do? What can we say? Where can we go? We understand that there are things that we can't see because of that.

And as long as we don't, as long as we don't take time to let go of those, like if we just go on with life, like the planned route you go from primary school to secondary school to university and then you go to your job and then you get the kids.

If you follow this recipe of life that the government or society is handing us, you will never come to this point when you start dropping these assumptions. It just, it just goes on and on and you actually get more and more and more with time.

So it needs to be something like a near death experience or for some people it's psychedelics or things like that when it's, you really get like a break from the normal patterns that move on.

And so now like where you perceive or you have these two bodies and you perceive things differently to say I would, how does that change the way that you live your life? Yeah, so for me, when I have this awareness, I have figured out that the energy body and

my connection between my energy body and other energy bodies, this is sort of the blueprint to what we experience in the physical reality. So if I have a conflict with someone, for example, I find it more effective to go into meditation and I can see the connection with this person and I can feel his side of the

story and I can sort of role play what's going on and then I understand it better and then I could call him back and we would be friends because the blueprint was changed. So I work in the blueprint rather than the physical world many times to fix my problems or to fix challenges.

So it's almost like you have a couple of nodes on a network and they pass information constantly between one another and you can have a break or a disagreement between the two nodes which you have to then rectify and it's kind of, I guess that's kind of like sometimes you

can feel this energy, like I have sometimes experiences with people where immediately there's something wrong, you know, like I can meet someone and there's immediately something wrong and it could be the information I'm picking up just from some type of movement.

There's something that just doesn't feel quite right and you can't quite put your finger on it, but it is often like you can actually feel that. And so what you're saying is that you can actually in meditation, you can get closer to feeling how they feel rather than just yourself, like you can start to feel what

might be off with that person or why they might be upset with you. I don't think I explained that very well, but and I don't even know if you're there because there's a fucking connection.

Let's try one more time. You were talking to me about being able to if you'd had a conversation with someone or a disagreement with someone that you could meditate on it and start to feel and see things from their perspective or start to understand what they were feeling and thinking.

I was trying to make sense of it in my head and sort of liken it to nodes on a network passing information that they may not agree with or find to be truthful. And that's kind of like the closest that I can imagine.

Maybe we can go a little bit deeper into that thought and you can sort of explain it. Am I on sort of the right track or is that completely different to how you experience things? Can you actually hear me or is this?

No, yeah. I could hear you but okay, I got the main point. So yeah and that's very interesting because that's also how I started to think about it more since becoming a Bitcoiner.

So I consider myself a node on the creation network and then my energy body is like my node. I can go into the interface and I can look how is the status of the different energy centers. So we have the chakras in many different cultures around the world.

I have these energy centers, seven energy centers. And I can sort of go in and do status checks on them at any time. And they are responsible for different areas of life also. So some are more for survival, some are connections with others, some are like myself confidence and stuff like this.

And then we can have these connections with other people. And just as you said, it's like data transfers between my node and someone else's node. And so thoughts are actually real to me. Like if someone thinks about me, I can pick up that.

That's like a data transfer to me. So I know I remember how it was before you thought the thoughts were just in your head and it didn't have any physical results, but in the spiritual world or in the world of these nodes, every thought is actually a signal.

So you think of a person and the charge in that thought is actually a transmission. So if you think about thought about someone, then that person, if it's sensitive, you can pick that up as a horn.

Now he's thinking bad thoughts about me and it can be a sort of a conflict starting that way. Maybe I'll stop there and see what you think about that. No, that's interesting. And it does make sense because those feelings where you walk into a room and you just instantly know there's a problem here.

I mean, yeah, maybe you could argue there are certain tells with body language or something like that. Sometimes it feels like it's more than that. It feels like there's a connection or you know, someone's not right.

Like, you know, you phone a friend, is everything okay that there's this feeling? I'm not sure this is that everything's okay. You have a feeling that someone's not right. And often that is correct.

And so if they're not sending a message or telling you something in text or audio, then there must be some connection that we feel. And then if we're feeling it, then how is that being transmitted?

So it does make sense. I don't understand how the hell it works, but it certainly makes sense. Yeah. And if you have these going on like all the time, it can be very confusing in the beginning.

So 20 years ago, then when I started, it was, it's all, it was, you know, very confusing to be able to just think of a person and then to be able to pick up so much more data than most needed.

So yeah, that's why it takes a lot of time to, to figure out this, how to live as a node on the network of everything and to live as a physical person in, in society as well. Mm. Because I imagine, like you said at the beginning, if you are picking up, I mean, it must be difficult to filter that information.

If you're constantly tuned in and constantly thinking about how, how other people are feeling and thinking and all the rest of it, that's very tiring and also filtering the information to actually be relevant and useful to you and loved ones is also probably pretty difficult.

The closest I can come to understanding something like that is, and I've got better with this, but certainly when I was younger, I would try and think about what everyone was thinking about all the time, like if I was in any space, I would always try and think, what's that person thinking?

How are they feeling? And I'd try and judge their movements and try and understand a relationship between them and who they're speaking to. And are they judging this person or, you know, all the interactions in a social environment, I would try and break down.

And it caused me major anxiety, like I actually hated going outside because I would always be trying to like work out, like who's trying to fuck someone over, who's doing this, and it was just tiring and I really, really hated it.

I've learned to manage that and dumb that down to stop myself having the anxiety, but I wouldn't say that I was thinking of myself as a node on the network or that I was actually using any sort of any information that they weren't actually giving out.

I guess I was thinking about it in like a body language sense, which is different. Yeah, that's more using your rational mind and intuitive mind when it's just no things. So the rational mind is using models, like so you try to figure out if they behave like

that, that you could make estimates and make a judgment. Yeah, so, and maybe that's why people who come into these abilities, they really feel a need to sort everything out because it's just too much chaos with things going on and it's really important to clear our own bubble so we can get peace in the bubble and we can

choose when to how to take information, so the information is just not flowing in from all sides at all time, so that sort of strengthening, so that's the spiritual strengthening when you get these integrity, you can say, where you know what is your energy body and what

is others' energy bodies because in the beginning everything is just mixed up completely. And so you've obviously, this is 20 years that you've been working on this ability and it sounds like you have some control over it and what you're picking up.

If you have the control over it and you can choose what to pick up and you're at peace with yourself, it sounds like what do you choose to spend your time on, what are you tuning into, I guess, like what is it that is important to you and what are you trying to do with your time on the earth?

Yeah, so what happens is that the energy body or the soul or whatever you want to call it, it has its own intelligence, so it's like a natural intelligence and then we have the rational mind, so you're asking my rational mind what I tune into and so I already surrendered my rational mind to my natural intelligence.

But I still have a rational mind, obviously, so I'm talking to you now with my rational mind here, but since the rational mind have given up surrendered to the natural intelligence, then I cannot decide like I used to before, like 20 years ago, I cannot have goals like

that, I cannot say I want to be famous or I want to do this, I want to earn money. So instead, I've given all these decisions to my larger self or my soul or my energy body and the rational mind is just sort of following that flow and that's more of a non-linear

flow, so I don't know where I'm really going or it's more like a trust that my soul will guide me to the good things and the soul is then working also with the rest of creation, so I'm also trusting the creation to bring me the people who will contribute to my life

and things like this, so that's quite different from 25 years ago when I had my rational mind deciding everything and what to focus on, what to do, now I'm more in a constant surrender and I'm letting life happen, I'm letting people, ideas, projects come into me so I can meditate

and I see some visions, this is what I want to do and then I do it, which is different from planning and calculating with the rational mind, does it make sense? It definitely makes sense, how do you still move through life in the sort of fiat world

if you're separating and surrendering, I assume like for some people this is going to be harder, like for example, if you have already achieved goals and you already have a safety net and you already have a home and you already have the ability to feed yourself and all this

kind of stuff and you have the time to spend to meditate and allow yourself to be directed by the soul and not make plans, I imagine for somebody for example like a single mum working two jobs and has a couple of kids and is already in debt and you know for someone like that

where the amount of time like going to the toilet and taking a piss is the most peaceful time in your days, that is like oh my god I've actually got three seconds to myself, for someone like that is it still possible for them to be directed by the soul or are

they basically imprisoned to a point where they can't allow that because they have to use their rational mind because they have to survive and provide for their children, do you understand what I'm saying because like for me my Bitcoin journey only started because

I had a total fucking breakdown but that breakdown was at the end of a relatively good period of time where I'd earn pretty good money and I was secure, it allowed me to go fuck this I'm not doing this work anymore, fuck off I'm not doing it and just sat at home and painted

and did whatever I wanted for a year and at that time it happened that I found Bitcoin so I could spend 24 hours a day, seven days a week thinking about Bitcoin and that's what I did but not everyone can do that because if they are to do that they're going to be on the street.

Yeah so it's either you survive or you thrive and this is not maybe so easy to choose and that's maybe why these near death experiences that I had that seemed very very bad but maybe they were you know what actually helped me to come up to the thrive side of life and the

shift from surviving to thriving is maybe you have to make like a plan, how can I save up enough Bitcoin and wait for the next bull run and then do it you know rather than surrendering in a beer market and you know losing out the opportunity to buy those sheepsats so you

can plan it with the cycles if you're Bitcoin I mean and so that's sort of more of a practical approach right so I'm not saying oh just let go of everything right now and everything will be great because I did that sometimes but it just so it's disbelief sometimes in

spirituality that if you just let go everything will be okay but the problem is that we have these programs from society from our parents and if we have a program that say I am poor I'm not good enough I'm not worthy then even if you let go of everything you will still

have those programs playing out in your life so you will have problems with money as long as you have those programs so to do that self-healing we need time and to maybe have a part-time job or to have a job and then to sort out those issues so we don't feel this lack because

as long as we feel is lack is fears it's very difficult to be free you see what I mean yeah yeah definitely and a lot of people think after chasing the money that that will allow them to be free because I have the money so I can do what I want and then you realize

well actually no because you still have the constraints and limitations of your mind and so you're far from free and the happiness that you thought that this was going to bring you it doesn't actually bring you at all that's the biggest battle is with yourself

and your mind it's obviously incredibly difficult and it's made more difficult with the way the society is structured yes it's a trap you know but that's right to really keep us in survival mode in all ways they can and and from our energy frequency perspective

then fear frequencies you know so as in my energy body when a fear frequency comes in the whole energy body just becomes weak and as long as as long as I believe in that fear I stay weak and it's just like okay it's a fear okay that's fine and then I stop identifying

with it and it goes away but and then imagine you're multimedia no mass media and the schools it's just pumping out fear programming non-stop and on a frequency level this is like very very nasty frequencies right so it's just feeling up the energy bodies with these nasty

frequencies and we are sort of defenceless if we don't if we don't know about this so if there's someone like you who can tune into other people's like feelings emotions thoughts to some extent like when I think about the people that are trying to cause the bullshit

the cloud swabs of the world and some of the world leaders and some of the crazy stuff that was going on during the covid nightmare and the lockdowns and trying to take away people's sovereignty over their bodies and this kind of stuff that to me is as close to

pure evil as I can imagine do you have the ability to tune into what people like that are thinking like what the hell their motivation is because it's so far removed from anything I can understand it's like the complete opposite of what I want it's like the removal of all

freedom do you have any insight into why they're doing what they're doing why they want to oppress because like we said all the money and all the power in the world is going to still leave you empty so why yeah as I see it it's a big war between centralization

and decentralization and these nodes that you were talking about it's like decentralization this means that everyone gets access to their node to their soul to their inner power to their creativity and dreams and missions and the other way then is to shut down as many

nodes as possible so if you want to control others then the only way is to make them compliant and to scare them so that's why I see it's quite rational what they are doing it's it's not I mean okay we can can think about Satanism and so on but it's also yes some people wants

to have control they have maybe our control need from when they were a kid or whatever and also they are just like oh no I need to control this and then they get into bigger and bigger positions okay now I'm Klaus Schwab and I I need to control this and in his case

it's like the whole world or inputting and it's just basically they're just scared and they just want to control things still there in their favor like everyone else like the like the local manager of McDonald's he's doing sort of the similar stuff as Klaus Schwab

just on a smaller you know he's making sure his workers come on time that they shouldn't have free speech they shouldn't have free wheelers she just do what they are told and that's it because he needs to control his domain and everyone is just trying to control their

domain so it's just centralization is in big and small variations while then we have Bitcoin morning morning yeah hello good morning thanks for coming back on I'm so sorry about the other day I was literally just been editing it the last couple of days and trying to piece

things together and make something of it and I was like oh I just reminded me how many times you had to deal with that so yeah apologies once again mate we should be okay today for me you know it's I see my external reality as a feedback system so I'm constantly I don't

react you know with fear when things go wrong I I sort of just approached it again so for me it was really no problem it must be nice to to be able to view things like that I try very hard sometimes for things not to annoy me but my monkey brain kicks in moments like

that and I'm panic a little bit and get all frustrated like how do you approach the day I mean like do you practice these things is it something that like training the body going to the gym you're doing through meditation or through other practices yeah like I described

last time it's it's been a gradual process but it's really like coming into a different operating system so it's like a switch from the old operating system where the world is against us and switching to the other operating system and when we see the world as a feedback

system and we we keep shifting things on the inside to to improve the signal we get from the outside so at this stage of my life it's it's really going with the flow and just having

fun you know like just doing what I think seems fun what I'm drawn to to do and it's like you know we all run programs so it's just a question which program should be run

and because the world looks like it does we are then bombarded with these programs from other people so when we come to our 20s or 30s we find ourselves in a position where we running programs that are not ours that they were giving to us by other people events

and stuff like this so you look at your system your energy body it is like okay it's full of programs here and I don't have any control over this it's just running all over the place and then you start cleaning up and you start rather than running away rather than distracting

yourself away from the programs with with films or alcohol drugs things like this you start okay I need to look at this this is my programs I need to figure this out so then you start program by program and sort of looking at what what caused the program in the first

place so you can get like a flashback oh it was this and and that it's sort of like tension or like a charge in your energy body that program so you look at the program you find a charge and then you discharge charges because you look at it you don't run away from it you

don't play it out but you just look at it with your awareness and then it's reprogrammed then it doesn't exist anymore then it's deleted from your system and there you go to the next program a next program a next program so that's the process like a purification of your energy

body and when you come to a certain stage you don't have so many programs so you have more like a being you know you don't need to run away from anything you can look at anything you know so you don't have any fear you don't live in fear you don't have so many fear programs in your

energy body if you have one you just look at it and you neutralize it so then the next stage is to sort of create your own programs like what do I want to do or what is my purpose what should I do and that's when we change from so if you look at this as frequency before it was external frequencies

coming in with programs like expectations assumptions and all these things from other people so those have a certain external sense those frequencies are like pressures from outside but when we clear those we start working or playing with our own frequency so this is like timeless essence or our

soul or our spirit so we look at our spirit and these frequencies in another energy body okay what do these frequencies want to do do they have a like a purpose do they want to do something here I mean and start creating programs you can say from our own frequencies and we start

and living those frequencies like expressing our souls rather than running external programs does this make sense yeah it does when you find let's say a program that is there because of a previous trauma or the way your life has been for whatever reason you have this program if you then

identify that program and you said you go and remove this program how would you go about doing that let's say for you who is at the stage you're out with this if you have any of these programs at all or if you pick up one somehow what does that process look like to actually remove it

yeah yeah so what happens is when we clear our childhood then we go into our bloodlines our DNA so then we start looking at the programs from our bloodlines you know like we get eye color hair color we also get illnesses from our parents so it's just that it gets clearer but it doesn't get

completely clear right so it's always new programs because it's many generations of crap we have to sort out so when I have a new layer coming after for me then the first thing I do like I noticed something strong the first step for me because of my experiences right then I located the program

in my energy body this is not so easy to do for beginners right you need to be aware of your energy body to be able to do this but if you talk about for me then I find the program or the distortion cloud in my energy body I find it and then I sort of have it there and then I look at it with my

different senses or channels of perception my inner side my inner hearing my inner smell touch and what happens then is that we need to we need to engage with it to be able to release that

charge so we need to forgive it or we need to touch it so I need to I can't just see it and just delete it it needs to go through my human experience if you understand what I mean so I need to I need to engage with it understand it feel it so every distortion cloud has both the

charge the pain and the buried essence the part of me that I pushed away together with that thing that event or my ancestors for example so with every cloud I find is this pain I have to go through a various kind you can get flashbacks or or feelings and then the essence returned and then you sort

of get some goosebumps of this for process yeah does it ever come back is there a way that like something triggers a thought or an emotion and then somehow that comes back again or is it like right that's a permanent delete that can't come back you might still have other shit you've got to deal

with but that's done yeah yeah so the difference here because I'm working in the energy body I know many techniques of self-improvement they work in the mental body when when you work only like with IDs like NLP and these kind of things when you're like you force thought patterns in certain ways

and then they come back and you have to force them again so that's sort of like a temporary delete because you just sort of shuffles around things and push things away but energy body so that I did in the beginning of my path but I found that it didn't work it was just like temporary but

if you when you keep digging kick the it just comes back and it's like this

like a temporary solution that it's not working long term but when you come into the energy body you find actual real cause because it it works across time and space it doesn't matter when it happened and then it disappears completely but many of these things have developed in layers

because of techniques like pushing away as such so if we look at the problem that has been in the life of someone and then they don't know how to fix it then they bury it and then they come up with a solution maybe drinking as a solution and then the problem persists and then

they drink more and then problem persists and so it's these kind of layers so it can be experienced that this come back but it's actually different layers and we constantly when we started to turn around and we started looking at our programs we go layer by layer by layer and some layers are

just similar to other layers but but it's different so now like you've been doing this for a long time you've been living in a very different way to most people I think that would be fair to say how do you sort of perceive the outside world and specifically what's going on with bitcoin

because that's the sort of crossover I feel like probably the way that you or I go about our daily lives and and think about things is probably very very different but we do have this common ground it seems we both care very deeply about freedom and we both think that bitcoin is potentially

a solution for a lot of the issues that are going on tell me if I'm putting words in your mouth but that's sort of what I feel that's where I feel we have this common ground how are you looking at this thing like what are you thinking and where are you thinking that this goes because

you're obviously dedicating time to it and if I could do cool stuff like you're doing with your energy body and like see balls of light and interact with other nodes and all this stuff you know it'd have to be something really interesting for me to bother spending time with it so like yeah

I'd love to know what you're thinking yeah I see the bitcoin network as sort of the rails into a world where everyone will experience the world as I do not because of a belief system but because I feel that I'm just sinking into truth like I don't try to hold to any beliefs I don't

hold to any attachments or people and that's the whole idea so letting go of all the attachment letting go all the fears and then we just sort of sink into what is and and from my experience this what I'm explaining here with energy bodies how the program works how I connect with other

people this is like what is this is this is what we can't see when we are stuck in the rational mind right so so for me it's beyond the belief systems it's just living in I call it like age of transparency because I can see the programs and others I can see my programs and and actually

I'm happy for others to see my programs like I have nothing to hide I'm happy for someone else to scan me and see my programs because I know if they do that they can only help me they can only like enhance me they cannot hurt me because if they see my pain that I have still not to risk the

result they wouldn't use that against me they would they would say like oh you know maybe I can help you with that because each person's frequency is sort of complex helping someone else like if you solve the problem in your engine body and you meet someone else who has that problem haven't

solved it just your presence with that person helps that person to figure out that one will be able to reprogram that part you know so that's how it works so I'm I want to see a world where more people just let go of all the fears and start living more like I do and Bitcoin is just

the path for this so this is why it has become equally important for me to support the Bitcoin network and the Bitcoin community as it is to work on myself it's like it's like 50/50 nowadays because I see it as as important as working on ourselves is to establish this network

to be able to to bring in a hope and harmony and transparency to the world like I really see this age of transparency coming where people can just let go of all the defenses and fears and start living more like their own essence and get rid of those external programs so do you think in that

same way that you're open for people to see your programs running and you're effectively living on an open system do you think that if we change the money and we know we have this truth we know we're using Bitcoin we know that we don't have these manipulations and people messing with the

natural order of things do you think that that changes the way that humans interact and people will go more towards this kind of idea of like spirituality and creativity and unlock a bit more of this human potential because people that I speak to who are creative tend to be quite drawn

to this it seems the people who come in either like big egos or clout chasing or deceive others those kind of people they don't last long here they either like implode or they get cast out they can't deal with Bitcoin it's like a bit of a mirror where it messes with people from what I

see most of the people that I deal with in Bitcoin seem to be pretty open pretty creative pretty like I don't know like yeah open books for me it's a little bit different maybe because for me it started long before Bitcoin so I see it as a consciousness evolution and Bitcoin sort of came

into that mix 2009 and just sped up the whole thing so it's it's not really because of Bitcoin but Bitcoin is a big part of it from my because all these frequencies are changing inside and I did

that also before you can also see it in the culture how the culture was changed and the last 40 years things have really changed on earth also as a reflection but it's the frequencies that that change here you're sort of moving up to a higher level so that's sort of a bigger perspective on

that but I think Bitcoin has come in as this truth vibration it's almost like the second coming of Christ but because it's just it is embodied this pure frequency is that whenever you try to

look at it from a limited or rational perspective you are faced with the obvious that it's just subjective illusions and also it's sort of penetrating people's rational mind in a way that nothing else have done on earth because it's when Jesus came and everyone is just

using a rational mind to to try to explain what what he was about what he did and so on but here we have something that is just keep on challenging everyone's beliefs every day and it sort of forces people to move into their two into minds just try to grasp what's happening

so it's like such a pure frequency that's just planted on earth at this time of transformation

and it's really polarizing because it's like either you are for freedom for truth or you try to run away from it and you saw you're for the fiat system and the fiat system it's like the personal fiat system with all the lies all the deceptions we do and the global fiat system with all the

depths and all the corruption and manipulation so I see the the personal and the global very similar it's like lies corruption defenses coverups distractions trying to manipulate your way out or it's like surrender to what is surrender to Bitcoin surrender to truth

and when you do that you start this unraveling process of beliefs about both the world and yourself so Bitcoin has come in as this like truth movement and really shake things up do you think this was inevitable then because it feels like a sort of like especially the way

you described it there it feels like this is literally a battle between good and evil it's like truth and lies good and evil it's pretty clear this has set rules you know exactly where you stand you can't mess with the system it is just a reality and you either use it or you don't and then you've

got the other side which is it's pretty evil to me do you think we were always going to get to a stage as humanity where we have this tool and this starts to happen I don't know but I'm very glad it's happened it's it's really an adventure and it's really given hope for so many people

so some people found hope on the inside like me you know so you find a light inside and you start like yes it's some hope it's like some light in this dark dark world and then other people found it in Bitcoin on the outside and it's like wow it's something true so we can either find it on

the inside or in the outside and you know it's just I think we created earth as a collective of souls and it was just difficult to get it completely right because we need the darkness we need to

forget who we are to be able to experience ourselves separate from each other so as souls it's like we are one and we know everything and and that can be boring I mean so it seems to me that we created we wanted to have

diversity we want to experience more than just unity so we created separation in some stories it's like Lucifer that he separated from God you know that he did it in a bad way but other stories it's like he was just like an offshoot from the unity to create separation so we can

actually have a good and bad so in this perspective and duality is a gift for us to be able to see ourselves have you thought about those concepts not as deeply as that I'm very confused by it all to be honest with you like I understand what you're saying I guess for me I'm just like I find it

so far removed from what I can understand or prove to myself either way that I guess I just don't think about it like I have an open mind where I'm like I don't really know why I'm here I don't really know what happened before I don't really understand if any of the religious texts or

any of that is truthful at all but I also don't dismiss it I just don't know I'm not sure then if I hear something like that like oh we were all souls and then we created the earth and we're all connected but we've actually separated and all of that I'm like maybe but like I don't

know how do you know do I mean I just I don't know how I can prove something like that either way that's right like it's really interesting like I find it fascinating and like I say I don't just miss it I just can't I guess it's my rational mind is just going well I can't prove this

either way no matter how long I would sit with this puzzle and try and unravel it I'm just like well I I don't know so so eventually I go I'll move on then yeah maybe for me it was my personal experience of coming into a feeling of wanting some darkness like feelings too light

so boredom was the first one so bored when I was a kid I was bored but after I found my energy body I was not able to be bored because I did either things on the outside or if it was like nothing happening on the outside then I just stepped into my inside so I was always on you can say so

I was not able to experience boredom anymore and that was interesting and fun for some time and then and then it just hit me one day that wow boredom like wow I can just like remember how it sort of felt but I can't I can't feel it because it was like too many years since I felt it and that's when

it sort of hit me ah if it's too much unity then you start to crave for contrast you start to crave for experiences so I think for me it was like a personal experience and then then I sort of related to this ah if we just if we just sold we just know who we are and we we don't have like

a physical environment then of course we want to go down onto earth and have an experience of course we want to expand we want to have adventure so that's how how I started to to really understand the difference between unity and and separation

and so like if these souls come down to earth to have this experience away from unity which they crave which that makes sense to me like I can understand that what happens in your eyes like to the physical body which obviously we have a finite amount of time on this earth it's not very

long what happens then to this soul or this energy body in your eyes like is that tied to the physical body and then that dies with us or does it move on because there are so many different like theories and themes about reincarnation or or heaven and hell or all these different ideas from

different texts and different people like what do you think happens yeah from my experience it's like outside time and space right so so linear is just a mental rational construct so this means that timeless essence is not something complicated because

outside time it's just timeless it's just simple so you can't really say that the soul dies because it's exist outside time so when we clear those external programs and we start coming into our essence we can experience we feel timeless so like when I meditate I don't experience time

it's like I leave outside time and then I go into time when I talk to you for example so that timeless essence it's just you need to experience it otherwise it's just a concept right so yeah

so just bringing it down to my my level here so that exists outside of time which means it's timeless which means it's there forever that's your soul so you come out of your rational mind like you know when we finish this conversation for example where you experience time and then

you go and meditate or whatever you do you then you don't experience time you are still tied to this physical body for now you can jump in and out of it but when it dies the physical body then what that physical body dies you can't then jump back into it so does that soul that's existing outside

of time find another body does it just not bother do like do you just then it continues to experience this other state do you understand my question like um that's that's something I really struggle with they are based on rational not they are based on linear time so that's why why we have this

the miscommunication between concepts because it's for a soul it's not and now something else it's it's the the physical body is in in linear time but when it dies it sort of just goes back to the timeless so everything is happening at the same time right okay it's very interesting

I like I can't grasp it to be honest but it's very cool that you can it's making my mind tick but I just it's like yeah so see that's because it's experienced based right so a rational mind is just

it's like taking snapshots and then you sort of look at the snapshots and you try to figure out some patterns and then what I'm talking about because I've been living so long time in my intuitive mind like when my rational mind with snapshots that's just like a small part so I just experience

things more like in real time and I don't bother taking snapshots but when someone asks me things like this then I sort of have to take some snapshots and and convey the message in my snapshot do you

see what I mean so the question is then what will happen to humanity when people start living more like me it's like opening up to experience energy bodies frequencies and sort of just letting

the monkey brain be like an assistant the world will be very different but more peaceful I think if this does happen and the world gets more peaceful do you think that you're always going to have

like a faction of people who will resist and will still want wars and all the stuff that goes on or do you think that the draw or the pull towards this different way of living and with the assistance of tools like bitcoin as well like do you think that that will create more peace in the world because

it seems to me like most of the time where people want to fight it's usually they're wanting to take something from someone else they're wanting to oppress someone they're wanting they're wanting something for nothing but like if if you have a better managed world like if you have if you make

better use of your resources if you have more collaboration if you allow people to think a little bit more outside the box you allow allow for more of a creative world like it should be that things become easier for most people that's how it seems to me anyway like it should be that the standard

of living should go up and the experience of being on this planet should be nicer so it would feel logical that like there would be less aggression and less oppression but I still feel like there are always going to be like this group of psychopaths sociopath like types who just want the control

they want to always take and then I feel like well if most people then drop their guard and delete these programs these people potentially it feels like they can then take advantage because if you're saying oh well all these programs that I've learned or built through my life to protect

myself from these types of people like almost like pattern recognition oh I see somebody who has eyes like this or moves like this or speaks like this they often act like this if you're dropping all of those programs it's almost like antivirus software you're like dropping that away and then

they can then infiltrate and take advantage or is that not really the case well you've changed the operating system so you're talking about the rational operating system there which is sort of based on these models and it's it's fear based right it's it's based on this model that

the world is against me and I have to protect myself against the world and when you step into the intuitive or the heart then you feel the essence of other people so you don't need to look at their behaviors or you don't need to hear what they are saying because you can you pick it up intuitively

you know which people are good people and which you should stay away from so that's the other operating system it's just the switch between those like oh can I let go of this fear based operating system because then maybe people hurt me but that's part of the operating system right that's part of the

fear programming so the fear program is sort of looping itself and the trick is to just like surrender to truth to surrender what to what is and when we do that we can see people for who they are

so when when we start living more like I do it's you know you see people as as resonances you feel them you feel like they're intentions when people can't lie to you if they lie you can just sense it and you feel there real intentions behind it so you're like a truth detector so it's even

more safe from my perspective to work on an intuitive operating system because you can see through all the different theater that people play and you see like if you want to help someone you see oh you're doing this because of this this this this or if someone is trying to hurt you

you can just sort of just remove yourself from that before anything bad happens

what does it feel like that kind of you know if you have this truth detection does it ever upset you do you ever start to interact or deal with someone and and then you feel ah this person actually wants to hurt me this person actually wants to steal from me this

but you know whatever whatever they are thinking do you ever still think fuck I thought I thought they were going to be a nice person or is it like an instant you meet you know you move on because like for me that's I've always found that like hurtful if you start to go down the road where you

start to befriend someone or you're trying to look after someone and then you think they're a friend further down the line you go ah there's sneaky little bastard like they've sold him from me or they've lied about this and then it's really hurtful and I guess partly as well you're like

ah such a fucking idiot you know what I mean like I was so stupid to think that it's not very nice to deal with do you saying you never really have to deal with that because you just meet and you go no that's not a person I want to deal with and so you could completely avoid all that

well no I give everybody a chance and then it's just I give them a certain like when I see because for me it's really like either you're for freedom or you're for the manipulation and control so and every person I meet I just see them for who they are at that point and then I also see

how they change the trans the transformation and if they open up during that time then everybody's ah able to turn around but the thing is if they turn around or not so if I'm with someone for like a month and they keep keep keep going to the fear path to control and closing up

then then it's like okay it's not a match so basically everyone who was to turn around and look at their problems and stop running away they are my friends because then we are on the same path towards truth and freedom so this is how I see people I don't judge them for their previous

actions I I judge them from their judgment their their their the way they they take things now and this your question actually reminded me of this I had a period when I judged people because of their thoughts and actions so I was able to scan I was able to see people

but then I judged them because of this so so that was sort of a strange like a middle stage to be able to read people's thoughts to be able to see who they are and then I got afraid afraid of that I sort of judged them because of their programming and that was an interesting period

like people didn't even have to talk to me I just like saw them and then I judged them and then I walked away but but then I I moved past that and then I just saw okay this is the current programming and I stopped being afraid of that you see what I mean it's like first you see the

programming and it's like okay that programming has to stay away or I or I don't like that person because he has those programs you know it's it's really like judgmental but on a deeper level you can say you can you can see something but you judge the program so then the next level the next

frequency shift which was like okay I see them the problems but I also see the pureness behind that and that was a big step for me so it's one thing to be able to see the bad thing people and then to be able to see the good on the other side because then so now you can see

people you see their problems their patterns but you also see their shining light inside of them that was a huge step for me and that's really like when when you feel that everyone is sort of on the same path when you don't judge people for the programs but you can just see the

the potential instead so it's quite amazing do you have any advice for anyone who's listening to this and a lot of Bitcoiners are trying to improve themselves in all different ways whether that's dire or finances or physical body like training whatever it is to try and enrich and

improve themselves but obviously with what we're talking about any any sort of advice for people who are thinking it would be good to drop some of these programs you know anything where I'm running running on fear go more towards truth and yeah be thoughtful of the programs that they're running

like are there any tips or techniques or advice that you can give yeah so it's it's two ways to do it one is to add more layers to ourselves try to become something else so to sort of push away

our past and become a new person that we think will help us you know that that's actually the fear system it's like adding more depth on top of the depth and trying to pay the depth with the depth so like you take all the crap and you just sort of push it down and you create more crap on

top that's how I see the banking system and and then otherwise and that that's what I did because that's what sort of was suggested by the world like oh if you want to improve yourself yeah just do this habit success habits and you know implement this you know so you sort of create a new personality

on top of the old personality and many people need to go through this and then they need to get that success they need to get that money or whatever and then they need to realize ah actually what I was trying to get here is not making me confident inside of myself it's just external things that I

add to myself to feel better so that's sort of trying to find ourselves in the external world so if you want to go that route do it try it for the best you can but sooner or later at least in large large perspective consciousness evolution that's just one consciousness level that's like

outside in trying to fix the outside world to feel better inside that's like one consciousness level and we all have to go through it but if you don't have to stay there so long and then you come to the next level and it's just like ah it's just about removing the old stuff and

that's more scary maybe because it's like about surrendering so it's just sinking into what is and it's like feeling those feelings from when you're bullied and it's about surrendering into what is rather than trying to create something new on the time and so that's

happening on a personal level and on the world right and Bitcoin is this this just looking at things just staying true just seeing what is staying transparent so if we want to be like Bitcoin

then we should just look inward and try to find our real confidence in our soul and then on that path we will meet everything that stands in the way all the pains and stuff that we pushed away it will just come up show itself and we say okay

it's okay it's okay and you continue going in further and further until we come to our core

yep that's my thoughts for for today well it's been really interesting to learn about the way that you're living your life I'm certainly going to try and make some changes myself and see if I can strip some of these layers back it seems like a mammoth task but

maybe I have to send you the old DM and say right can you give me some advice but um yeah it's been really interesting and thank you so much for coming on the show and I would advise anyone who has found this conversation interesting and wants to go a little bit deeper to go to your

podcast because this is really more the theme so maybe you can direct people that way and do a bit of shilling yeah if you want to check out my work yeah the podcast is called Bitcoin consciousness and then I have a blog or a newsletter on sub-stack it's samakataro

and a website over tour and twitter account samakataro yeah we'd be nice to hear from you like any anyone who wants to start this journey or go deeper into this journey I feel that we are on the same team and

it's just we are stronger together and we can go faster together and team up and find our true selves and start living our true selves yeah that's my shilling and thank you max for for letting me come on the show I really appreciate your openness your understanding and because like

you said my life has been and is very different and it's not always easy to talk about it because people tend to use concepts from their past and I had a home to me and then so if I say something

it's easy to judge but I felt that I was able to speak about how I live here so you have been a very gracious host so thank you I'm very happy to hear that well thank you so much and yeah we'll have to do it again and maybe at some point we can meet in person and I'd love to chat to you a

little bit deeper about some of this stuff and I have it mulling around my head for a while and if you don't mind I might shoot you the old question here and there yeah and that's that's perfectly cool yeah I love talking about this stuff yeah awesome all right thanks so much and

I'm sure we'll speak again soon yeah have a good day and see you around