Bitcoin, dogs and lightning with Danny Brewster

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.

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Now, what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison. Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.

All right, you ungovernable misfits. I'm your host, Max. Everybody knows that Bitcoin is useless, worthless, and doomed to fail. But what if everyone's wrong? What if it's the system that is doomed to fail?

Join me as I speak to some of the brightest people in the space and slither to the deepest, darkest depths of the Bitcoin rabbit hole.

Welcome back, everyone. Today's episode is with Danny Brewster. He built and runs fast bitcoins. They're a new sponsor for the show. And this is the second time that I've had Danny on. I really appreciate just how straight down the line, Danny, is.

It's rare to find this. Maybe slightly less so in the Bitcoin world. But especially for somebody who is running a company of this size and expanding as quickly as he is. It's really refreshing to hear someone who just says it how it is.

He is tied in certain ways because of the regulations. But this is a man who is down for the cause. He's doing everything that he can. And the team are fucking awesome as well. I really, really love the people that I've interacted with so far.

I really believe in this team. What I love is just how down to earth they all are. I try my very hardest to get Danny to promote the business and to shill. But it's not really in his character.

This guy just sits down. He builds. He doesn't fuck around. And I think that the proof of work is there. We're starting to see this business really become something special. I hope you enjoy the show.

And if anyone has any questions, please feel free to reach out. Ask either the team at FastBitcoins or ask me. And I'll be very happy to help. Before we dive into the show, I want to say thank you to my other two sponsors.

We have foundation devices who are building the most fucking awesome hardware wallets on the market. They are fully open source. And they have got one of the best deals that I've ever seen in this Bitcoin space.

We cover this on our Bitcoin monthly with Bitcoin Q&A and Antimus. But basically, if you pay in Bitcoin and the price of Bitcoin goes up, they're going to offset that against the price of your hardware.

That's pretty fucking amazing. That's a bet that I would be willing to take. If you go to foundation devices.com and use bit by bit at the checkout, you will also get an extra $10 off your purchase.

I use this thing every day. I really love it. And I've had four or five plebs in the last week that have reached out to me and said they've got their hands on one of these things and how much they're enjoying it.

I've pointed them towards the setup guides from Bitcoin Q&A and no problems so far. So I can't recommend them enough. And if anyone has any questions, please do reach out. Next up, if you are looking to step up your security, you can use Casa Multi-Sig.

They are a new sponsor for the show, but I've been working on trying to get these guys for about a year now, actually. I really try and take this seriously when I get new sponsors on the show and I'm very proud to be working with Casa.

I've recently had Jameson Lop on the show. I have a huge amount of respect for him and also for Nick, who's been on the show about four months ago. So check those out if you haven't heard them.

But it just makes it very, very easy to set up Multi-Sig. You can do it from as little as $10 a month. I've been using it for just over a year now. I've been very happy with the service. And yes, you can go and do this.

You can do this yourself. You don't have to pay the $10 a month. But not everyone has the time. Not everyone has the technical expertise. If you're in this Bitcoin world, you will see your wealth increase.

Although you might think that that is gonna save you a lot of stress, actually it can be very stressful. What really is gonna help you sleep soundly at night is knowing that you have a very, very good security setup.

If you would like to get some more information or you would like to step things up, I suggest you visit keys.casa and the team will help you. If you want to reach out to me directly, I'd also be very happy to help you and point you in the right direction.

Thanks again for listening and enjoy the show. - Take two. - Take two. I think we should be good now. So yeah, so what's been going on? You've been going through a big rebrand. I hear you've moved office.

There's all sorts going on. You sound like you're a man on a mission. - Since we last spoke, lots has been happening. Decided to leave the UK, took some family, the grand distance of about 40 miles off the coast towards Ireland, living on a small rock, which is a bit of a duel in the middle of the RSC, to be fair, absolutely loving it.

- No speed limits. - No, there are speed limits, but there's no speed limits outside of the towns and the built up areas. So once you get out of the villages, it's the delimiter signs or delimiter signs.

But to be fair, there's no need to drive around like an absolute idiot. Everybody's pretty chilled out, but yeah, if you want to come and do 180 mile an hour in a motorbike round that TT course, yeah, fair play.

(laughing) It's, so yeah, but just no speed cameras and stuff like that. You don't feel like you're being watched by CCTV at every turn. It's almost like the government here tried their best not to have their fingers in your life at every given opportunity and like no political parties.

We just had a recent election, and funnily enough, our new offices are literally, the developer's office overlooks the government building. We overlook Tim Ward, but the equivalent is overlooking like the Houses of Parliament.

And it's, to be fair, it's, I really like it here. Like the kids are safe. I don't feel like anybody's gonna try and steal my dogs. What crime there is is petty crime, touch wood. But yeah, it's almost like the perfect place to live, especially when the rest of the world is crazy.

They close the borders. Or everybody, everything pretty much stayed open most of the time here. There's no social distancing. You don't have to wear a mask. Restaurants are open. You can go sit in and eat in a restaurant and things like that when the rest of the UK was locked down.

And yeah, I really like it here, but we'll not tell too many people because I don't want it to change with an influx of people. And then obviously there's the tax environment. It's got a sensible tax environment.

The government can't create money out of thin air. They can't create or get into debt. They have to live within their means. So it's pretty cool to be fair. It's a good place to live. - Yeah, I've had a couple of my favorite Bitcoiners have been shilling it to me for some time now and really, really pushing it.

And I have to say every day that I live in the UK, I do question what the fuck I'm doing in life and why I'm here. And so it is definitely something that's an option, but then I do keep romanticizing about the idea of moving somewhere in the Caribbean just because it'd be lovely just to sit there with a cocktail and sunshine

and you don't maybe do that in man. But other than that, it's perfect. - Yeah, the weather, but to be fair, I've lived in the warmer climate when I lived in Cyprus. And many people make this mistake of thinking when you go and live somewhere, it's like what it's like when you're on holiday there.

And it quickly unravels. But the Caribbean is obviously a beautiful place. But we was looking at either here or Dubai. - Yep. - And here wins out purely based on the fact that we've got kids.

So much better for the dogs here, they're big old dogs. - I know, that's why I was surprised when you said, oh, you're not worried about someone stealing your dogs. I was thinking fucking good luck, I've seen them.

(both laughing) - There is that. I think a bit of a random tangent for a Bitcoin podcast. But in the UK, like my dogs would probably be considered like really highly prized for fighting dogs.

They're both soft as shit. Really, well, I say that they are with me and the kids and the family. - Yeah, yeah. - But like the county course I went and stole from it. - Yeah, people are just horrible.

I'd say take the kids because I know you would bring them back. But stealing people's dogs and stuff, it just got really prevalent. Obviously with the increase in the prices of dogs and stuff over the lot of their hands and everything in the UK.

- So, yeah, it's always there in the back of your mind. It's like, what is society coming to when you can't even walk down the street with your dog and not have to consider. I'm six foot and 100 kilos myself.

So, come and steal my dog. If there's a few of them, I'd give a good fight from my dog but at the end of the day, it is what it is. But if one of the kids was walking a dog down the street like a little staffie or something like that, the dogs got no chance and the kids got no chance of fighting

like a group of two or three fully grown men. Is that what society's become? - It's a disgrace. It worries me because I've got, I mean, we've got some big dogs as well. We've got some rich backs but we've also got my little one and he's a Frenchie and a blue Frenchie.

So he's quite like a desirable dog and a few of them have gone missing around here. And it just makes you think like, I understand circumstances for some people, if you've got to feed your kids and you've got to put a roof over your head and you're absolutely desperate, then maybe you go and rob some of your ass.

- Sell your ass. - You're going to sell your ass. You don't steal somebody's dog. - Exactly. That's the last thing you can ever do. Like, you know, if someone like goes and robs, you know, there's a bit of shoplifting or something like that.

I'm like, okay, you know, it's probably not very nice but you know, this is like, this is someone's family. Like a, a dog is family. It's absolutely disgraceful. - It's just greed. - Yeah, yeah.

- The people that are stealing dogs aren't doing it to put food on the table. They're doing it to buy a new Louis Vuitton bag and stuff. Let's face it. It's bullshit behavior. So yeah. - Yeah, fuckery.

- Yeah. Yeah, let's blame for the app for it for every problem. - Blame it for everything. - Yeah. (laughing) But yeah, just like moving away from that. The biggest change, we went to look around the kids school before they started and then we was like, okay, so where's the security?

'Cause the kids can just walk in and out of school. It's like, where are they gonna go? They're not gonna jump on a train and disappear down to London and never be seen again. It's like, they can go 30 miles one way or 12 miles the other way.

(laughing) That's it. You'll find them. And when they're hungry, they'll definitely come home. So yeah. It's just a complete. Flips life on its head from that point of view, like leaving a place where teenagers are stabbing teenagers and stuff, which was one of the biggest reasons

why we decided to up and leave or to take the opportunity. Was just that deterioration of the local environment and stuff where we was before. So yeah. - This is basically bad. - Not looking back, not looking back, looking forward.

And things are just absolutely crazy. And to be fair, even like the local government accelerators and stuff for bringing like technology given finance companies over to the island, they bent over backwards to help you get stuff and get things going and what help you need and everything.

- It sounds completely different. It sounds almost like they want businesses to survive and thrive, which is refreshing. - Yeah. - It's certainly different. - Yeah. - The beauty of it is as much as I'm philosophically opposed to like regulation and stuff, I know the FCA in London are cheering at the idea that they're chasing companies

out of the UK and people don't want to go there and register and people are withdrawing the registrations and stuff. But here I can actually go down the street and knock on the door of the regulators and have a conversation with them in person to figure like a few bits and pieces out that we need to make sure that they're happy with us

being here and stuff, as much as I hate it, they still exist and they will say they exist for a reason. And I'm pretty sure they can make a solid argument as to why they should exist. And just like we could make an argument to say they shouldn't, but yeah, it's not looking back, looking forward.

- Yeah, and it is what it is, like with the regulatory stuff, we kind of are where we are and at least it's good that you can sit and have these conversations because that's how you make progress.

Yeah, obviously you'd rather there's none, but if you can have an open conversation and if they're semi-reasonable then maybe over time they start to see that we're not actually just a bunch of fucking lunatics and trying to boil the oceans and everything else.

Maybe we are actually decent people who are trying to make the world a better place and trying to support our families and that we genuinely think this is an amazing technology. And for the most part, when I speak to people on the show that I get on, that's generally what people are about.

It's like, I just want to have a money that's better. I don't want to have something that's devalued. And I want something that's technically better than the banking system we have now. And I want to be able to innovate and I want to be able to collaborate.

And it's not, I think a lot of them will catch up eventually. Some of them are there just to literally cause problems and they've got vested interests elsewhere, I'm sure. - See, in London with the FCA, we was going down that path before.

And part of the requirements is to provide a list of every single address for hot and cold while it's linked to the business. And for me, that is absolutely insane. There's massive privacy implications, not just from the customers, the security implications for myself and their team.

And the only thing that I can put it down to is the fact that chain analysis operate from London, they're pretty much based there. And I'm sure they've got their claws there. And chain analysis works by trying to hoover up as much information from their so-called clients as possible.

So, I've also declined to work with payment processes that would enable us to have access to much bigger markets for the same request. It's almost like the chain analysis have got so far under the table with them that they request them to do their bidding to get our addresses and stuff

so they can map out and monitor our wallets and transactions. And then we would be contractually obliged. And the same with the FCA applies to keep them up to date with all of the addresses that we use.

And it's constantly changing, it's absolutely insane. But I do know that the people that have registered have given up this information and they're running around like, touting the fact that they've got registered and approved registered with the FCA, knowing for well that they've just given all of this information to them

and exactly where it's going to. Yeah, it doesn't sit well. That's why I was particularly excited here and thank you for supporting the show. Firstly, I'll start there. It's made a big difference to my editing and bits and pieces.

I'm starting to farm that out. It gives me way more time to research and get guests on and improve the quality of it in other respects. So firstly, thank you for that. And the reason I was excited to be working with you is because of what you're just talking about, that there is a backbone there.

I've obviously had the abuse of you. You've got a KYC exchange, fuck you. I'm not listening to the show anymore. Blah, blah, blah. I've had all that. But here's the thing. Here's the thing, right?

There's a middle ground, right? Yeah, there was somebody on Twitter today made a comment about a statement on our new homepage about caring about customers' privacy and stuff. But here's the thing, we've actually taken steps.

So depending on where you are in the world, as soon as we turn it on, you don't have to upload your idea and stuff to us. So you'll be, the only way you can pay us this way is by pairing your bank account.

But we can pull your personal information from your bank instead of getting a copy of your passport, which we then have to secure, all of that. We can take your personal data. You have restricted limits and stuff.

But if your account is low risk, then you don't have to provide all of that. You're still KYC, which isn't great. But we try and take as little information from you as possible. And when we do store it, it is stored properly encrypted at rest.

We monitor and track everything. Anybody that even touches that data, they have to have the right permissions to do. So even within the company, it's not like an open book. And my frustration with it is, if we want to exist, we have to jump through these hoops.

And we do push back and have open dialogues with the regulators. We don't just roll over. We, against all of my better judgements, we joined an industry body in Australia, which is for Bitcoin, only businesses, because the blockchain association of Australia was having all of the input with the regulators,

because the regulators only spoke to trade bodies. So Ethan from Bitru created the Australian industry trade. Bitcoin only trade body, or whatever it's called. And I put across all of my reservations to him about it.

But we can now have that dialogue with the regulators. And then also, if we don't know, if we don't do KYC, and if some of these painters using a digital payment methods, we're just going to be subject to payment fraud, and we'll be out of business within an hour, if we don't know the customers that we're doing with.

So the people that shout you down for doing KYC and stuff like that, either they're doing it for the sake of it, or they just genuinely don't understand digital payments, or how a business actually operates.

Or if they do, they're just not willing to do it themselves and put their own neck on the line. I've personally faced big jail time for shit I didn't do. I'm not willing to die on that hill over somebody buying 200 quid worth of Bitcoin without KYC or without me following the regulations,

because the government have got bigger guns than me. So yeah, if they're going to complain about it, please, I beg of them to build an alternative that is a genuine on-ramp for as many people as we can do.

I would happily wrap everything up, step aside, and go, "Great, thank you." And I'll be a customer, but I, yeah. It frustrates me when people jump down your throat for... Me too, because it is, the thing is, it's not just black and white, you know.

So what I always say to people is, and I'm very clear on the show, is there are risks with KYC. Here are the risks. Absolutely. If you can buy no KYC, I personally would suggest that. But the reality is that the majority of people, especially people, knew into the space.

Someone who just wants to get their hands on a bit of Bitcoin, they don't understand the philosophy yet, they haven't really got into it, they don't care about privacy or security yet. It is a journey, and, you know, when I first got involved and started buying Bitcoin, I didn't give a fuck.

I didn't even think about the fact that I was giving my personal details over. It wasn't until spending some time in the space and caring and understanding about Bitcoin that I started to change as a person in lots of different ways.

But one of them being, I cared more about my privacy. And so, my argument is always, well, I'd rather someone go to a KYC exchange who does things, at least pushes back, who does what they can, they have to play within certain rules.

But then that person is going to care more, they're going to get educated more because they suddenly start seeing number go up and they start getting more interested. And then, you know, maybe a year or two down the line, maybe that person starts mining at home and they do it completely KYC free

and they start to be a bit more thoughtful about things. But they're never going to get there if they don't buy the Bitcoin. So it is not just black and white. You just have to be clear about the trade-offs and people do things their own way.

You can't force everyone. Not everyone's going to fucking mess around with Bisk or, you know, start home mining. It's just not really... Don't you need Bitcoin to get started with Bisk? Exactly. Yes, you do.

So you then have to go to a cash point and then you say to someone, well, do you want to pay 12% on top? And a lot of them, do you want to take the risk of somebody beating you or choking you out in public?

There are risks of the non-KYC option as well. I'm not to defend the whole KYC. But we're shifting the way in which we do the whole KYC because we've got a responsibility of a company for safeguarding our customers as well.

Like payment fraud and stuff. One from a business perspective, if we're fully aware of who we're doing, business with it makes it much harder for people to like chargebacks, like fraudulent chargebacks and things like that.

But the biggest one is people that are being coerced into buying Bitcoin to send it to somebody that's basically scamming them or whatever. I've got a video of you wanking to this porn. I'm going to release it.

It's not even that, if you don't. It's not even that. It can be the one that irks me the most is probably the elderly that are being told I need to buy Bitcoin because I've got this fine to pay.

And it's like, where have they told you to send it to? And then you've also got like students that can be money meals for like people that are acting as an intermediary, the receiving funds from the proceeds of crime from like people that bank transfers from elderly people into these like students

who are then buying Bitcoin to send it to the scammers. And all of these issues, they don't reflect well on Bitcoin. And people like can sweep it under the carpet and pretend it doesn't exist.

But when you're dealing with somebody that's trying to buy six, seven grams worth of Bitcoin to pay a fine and they're like 80 years old because somebody's called them up, it does make you sick.

And we as a company, we also have to like deal with our customers and speak to them to make sure we try and catch these things that are going on. Again, a lot of people are probably completely oblivious to it.

But yeah, it's a tricky one. If you want to keep Twitter happy, you're never ever going to win. No, you're never going to win. So there's always something to complain about. And I just want more people to build alternatives.

So yeah, go ahead, build like distributed exchanges and stuff. But you're still going to face the same issues in the real world. No, I agree. And it's a way to onboard people. And at the end of the day, like the other thing I get with people, and this is my last little bitch of this and then we'll move on to another topic,

but it's, you know, people say like, oh, well, if someone can't fucking work out how to mine at home or they can't work out how to use Bisk, they don't deserve Bitcoin. Oh, that's just fucking stupid.

It annoys me because I think you think that someone who's a single mum and working two jobs and just doesn't have time to work this pretty technical stuff out. You know, let's be honest. Yeah.

And actually go through all of that rigmarole when they have no time. You think they don't deserve to have that they're hard and savings, not be stolen from the governments of the world. And you don't think that they deserve to be able to pass something down to their children and some savings, fuck off.

Yeah. And I struggle with that one because I always joke around saying, yeah, we're all geniuses in Bitcoin because it's still super early. And number does go up literally looking at a chart right now with a beer, which looks like a mountain, where the price is just like running after like 2 p.m. this afternoon.

Yeah. And yeah, we're all geniuses. We've all we're all godlike investors because we we've been in Bitcoin for 10, 11 years or whatever. So yeah, we must be the smartest people in the world.

And what I find is almost like an arrogance about some people that are, yeah, not everybody deserves Bitcoin because the smart people get it. And the the plebs don't and a slight intelligence is so subjective.

Telefished a climate tree. Tell an elephant to swim across the Atlantic. It's going to be fault. So it's yeah, yeah, I really struggle with that. And for me, like dealing with a handful of people that are just getting into Bitcoin and pretty much everybody that I'm trying to employ, I'm trying to get them in that

haven't, especially from the customer service side. And also our mobile app developers, I want people that are on the Bitcoin journey. So they can fully appreciate and understand our customer base as to where they're at, because they're on that journey themselves.

They have the benefit. I remember listening to the interview did with Nish and he said our beneficiary was having like me and Obi constantly telling him and keep him on the right track, if you will, and just trying to do that with the team that we're developing here at the company is to have the people that are going on that journey.

Because otherwise, like myself, I'm guilty of it. We just expect everybody needs to be at the same level. And it just doesn't work like that. So you forget how much you know and what a steep learning curve it is and how stressful it can be.

And I think that's a good idea to have people who are starting out working with the company, because yeah, you don't want everyone. Otherwise, you just can't have a conversation and understand what they might be thinking.

And sometimes it can be like the most simple things when you're on boarding new users, things that just really scared that we take for granted, like, I'm just going to send a transaction of a larger amount.

And I'm just going to quickly check the address of that looks fine. Yeah, send it. And you don't think about it. You don't sit there waiting for all the confirmation. So you know, after a while, you're like, yeah, fine.

When someone's new, and I remember doing it myself, sending that first transaction was fucking scary. I was like, is it going to work? Has it got there? I kept checking every two seconds. I was sweating.

Is that when you was trying to pay your fine for being caught wanking over a video? Yeah, well, I did that weekly. I should just stop wanking to this sort of weird porn that I'm watching, because it's quite embarrassing.

But I have to just keep playing it. That's legit porn. Don't worry about it. It's not all. Yeah, so now that I've paid enough of those fees to them, I've got used to it. But until you've done it a while, you don't know.

And so getting on to the user experience then, what have you guys been doing to make this more friendly for users? Because I know you guys do things a little bit differently, because you actually have the option to go into stores as well.

I know you guys were very, very early with lightning. We were the first with lightning. You were the first. Well, there we are. I'm pretty sure we were the first. Definitely the first cash to lightning mechanism in the world.

Or even for lightning. I love lightning. Lightning gives me the enthusiasm about Bitcoin that I used to get, like way back when I first started. And there was a guy, Renee, from Vancouver, that completely randomly stumbled upon one of our merchant locations, a convenience store in Vancouver. And he posted a video on Twitter.

And that is probably the most humbling moment since I launched a business where he paid for like a protein bar and a chocolate bar. And he got his uncle to film it for his family investment club to prove that Bitcoin can be used for payments and lightning works.

And it was like, I loved the video. I share it all the time with people, when I'm talking about what we can enable. And lightning just gives me that excitement again. Even lightning's got a long way to go with like scalability, reliability and stuff.

But when you expose to like lightning labs in a team, and everybody else that's developing upon lightning, it's mind-blowing. And I struggle with time to stay at the forefront of everything that's happening.

But we've added like lightning addresses. So it's just like sending a lightning payment to an email address, like blixt wallet, they support it, Zebedee support it. We've added it. Just trying to, or got a bit of an issue with the domain and the DNS.

But as soon as I get five minutes to finish it, we'll release it. Everything's there. It works on the test net. But it'll be, so when you have your fast bitcoins account, you can have a handle, which you can use for like your referral links.

And then you can also use that same handle at fbtc.me. It's like @fastbtc.me. That would be your lightning address. So people can just deposit lightning using the lightning address to your fast bitcoins account.

So it's basically like having a static address. So presumably it's changing in the background. Oh, it uses an L and URL to generate an invoice and handle all of that. But in the wallet interface, it's just like sending a payment to an email address.

And so for content creators and stuff like that, that's pretty useful as well, presumably. It's something I haven't really played around with that much. You have to go and feed the chickens and stuff.

Yeah, I do fuck around with it like a bit and I've had Sphinx and I've done all the, you know, those kinds of things and played around. And it's very, very cool. It's very exciting. And I think what's interesting about it is that it can move very fast because, you know,

all the on-chain Bitcoin stuff, all the protocol stuff is like very, very slow moving. It has to be, whereas this feels just more exciting. And sort of every two, three months, there's something where you're like, whoa, fuck, that's big. Like, you know, you're talking about now, like that's a really big thing

for user experience that makes a massive difference than just having to have like a long string of numbers and all that sort of stuff and copying and pasting and messing around and creating the invoices. These are the things where people who have been a Bitcoin for a long time, probably almost

take for granted, whereas someone who is new is going to be like, they expect this, you know, they're used to like a revolute. They're used to the simple interface, the simple user flow. And so if we can get it closer to what they're used to, then that transition is going to be

much more easy, much more slick. And there's, then there's no reason not to it. It's like, well, why the fuck would you not want to use better money that's better in every way? What are you doing? Why do you not want to do it? Because there's not that excuse anymore.

Yeah, there's the thing around lightning though is a lot of the big players, they want to capture all of the Bitcoin and stuff. So I think we've got a long way to go. Yeah, even with lightning to get to those levels of being like the equivalent of a centralized ecosystem,

like revolute or like cash app and stuff, or even like PayPal, but things like lightning address and stuff like that will go a long way towards that. But even then, there's always trade offs.

And there's trade offs for using lightning as opposed to not on chain, different security trade offs and everything to consider that most people have no interest in thinking about or considering when it comes to their money. And either until it's too late, or even then they don't care,

I'll live through the bailins in sight person. A week later, there was queuing up to put money back into the bank after queuing up trying to get it out. But yeah, it's insane. But all we can do is continually like build and push forward. And we're just adding like additional payment

mechanisms. We're launching in Brazil should be tomorrow, which will be Thursday. So in Brazil, we are integrating with picks, which is their equivalent to like faster payments. Most people use, but they've got like 10% inflation. Well, it's over 10% I should say.

And one of our support guys is Brazilian. And he told a story about when he was a kid when his dad used to get paid on payday, they used to go and do the shopping and they had to grab the stuff before they could put the new price tickets on as they was going through the store because

of the inflation. And it's not something I've ever personally experienced, but to have somebody on the team that has that lived experience, just makes it that bit more real. Although with the pound and the way that the dollars speaks quite 2%, I think we'll be doing the same in

Tesco's next week. But yeah, so we're launching in Brazil. We've got 50,000 odd locations across Brazil, like every lottery stand, like the lottery, where you can pay with cash and the Boleto stores and locations, you'll be able to go in and use cash to deposit to your fast

Bitcoin account to buy by Bitcoin using that. We're adding direct debits in Australia for your auto buyers. So you can just set it up and forget about it and we'll handle the rest for your dollar cost averaging. What else are we doing? That just pings to their wallet, does it,

or do you ever have custody for those sort of solutions? Like what's the score there? Right now, the auto buy will, it accumulates in your balance until you want to withdraw it, but we are developing our mobile apps and they will include a Lightning Wallet, a non-custodial Lightning Wallet. So we will

literally stream those payments to you. So we've got some plans to make sure that we hold people's coins for as little amount of time as possible. It's actually in our terms and conditions that you have to withdraw them inside like 24 hours. So I don't want to hold people's coins ever.

Yeah, I don't blame you. I like to sleep at night, not that I get the opportunity to do much of that recently. But yeah, what else are we doing? Oh, variable recurring payments in the UK once they become a thing, which should replace direct debits through the open banking layer, integrating

open banking in the UK and Europe. So it'll be like one-click payments from your bank account to buying your Bitcoin. So yeah, we're adding all of these different mechanisms, our interactee transfers in Canada, and we should have card payments very soon. But card payments is the one

that I have the biggest fight because they want us to give up addresses and stuff. And yeah, it's a hill I will die on. But then at the end of the day, it's probably going to result in us having to pay higher fees, which we have to pass on to the customer, which makes us less competitive

as opposed to other places where you can use your debit or credit card to buy a Bitcoin. Sorry. Yeah, that makes sense. But you know, I guess at some stage, we're going to get to that point where you pay everything in Bitcoin and you have your card. But to be honest with you, for me,

I'm quite happy paying in dirty, dirty slave notes. And you know, just use that for my day-to-day spending and then buy my Bitcoin and keep that separately. Like I don't... Oh, you're not maximum less than enough. I know it's disgusting, isn't it? I'll get canceled. But yeah, it's just...

But do you know what I mean? Like I've got no massive desire right now to like go and buy a coffee with my Bitcoin because I'm like, well, I'd rather use a credit card because I'm still going to give up a load of information if I'm using this card anyway. And I've bought the Bitcoin. There's going

to be some spread on it. I'd rather store that and hold that than spend it right now. I do spend my Bitcoin, but with other Bitcoiners, you know, it's peer-to-peer stuff. I'll always pay anyone who's my mates, if I'm, you know, if we're settling for a meal or whatever, it's always done in Bitcoin.

But for stuff like that, I've got no massive desire. However, there is this kind of idea, isn't there of like the cost for the merchants might come down if we start to use lightning, because they get charged at the terminal, the credit card and debit card payments.

So what's your thoughts there? Do you feel that at some point that starts to play in? I built our payment processing for merchants as a like, as a something for fun to do on a weekend. And just because it can be done, I think it's actually the same to even consider building out

the business model for like a payment processing company or merchant services at the minute in Bitcoin. I've always said like this ideal, the ideal scenario for me is like the circular economy.

And I've banged on about it since like 2013 and tried to do it at every turn. But it will eventually happen, I feel, because merchants are going to want to get paid in Bitcoin, so they will start offering discounts. We've already seen it from some like hardcore Bitcoiners

that will offer like Cabbie in London. They'll offer a discount for people that will pay in Bitcoin because they want to receive Bitcoin. And it's the best KYC free Bitcoin that you can get, is Bitcoin that you've learned. So yeah, if people want to be sent like merchants,

want to incentivize people to pay them in Bitcoin, I think that will be the way that it becomes more of a thing, especially as we go through times of transistors or whatever it's called inflation. So yeah, I think it'll be led by merchants demanding or try and create incentives.

Everything's incentive based, isn't it? And in terms of lightning, because you're at the forefront, you're the first people to be playing around and doing this. We were like two, three years ago.

Sure. Yeah, yeah. There's loads of people doing it now. I know there are, but it seems like you're always sort of pushing the boundaries. Is there something that you're looking at now within lightning as it's something that particularly interests you? Are there any things that you're like,

you see a trend that you think is going to be really big? Like I'll give you an example, like the streaming sats for podcasting, like what Sphinx were doing, or messaging chat, or is there anything where you're looking at it, or you're feeding Chuck in there? Only for nerds.

We have to remember that we exist in this little echo chamber in this bubble, where mostly like hyper nerds, big time myself. And it's like all of the crap with default. My biggest fear is that people are going to, there's going to be this shift where people are building on top of lightning,

so we can do like tokens and all of that bullshit, just because you can doesn't mean you should. And we're going to set ourselves back, probably like another five or 10 years, as people go through where they've been slagging off Ethereum for like the last five, six years or whatever,

for all of these things. But now it can be done on Bitcoin or on top of lightning, it's suddenly all Vogue. And yeah, it's been lending. Oh, no, no, no, lending and stuff like that. I think people that can borrow against Bitcoin, if you can do it without getting liquidated, I think it's the most sane way, especially when

you subject to capital gains tax, big plus to the Isle of Man, no capital gains tax here. But then, but yeah, people that can like, borrowing against Bitcoin is one thing, lending Bitcoin out is obviously another risky thing to do, but there'll be a premium pay for it. But I'm thinking

more about just like all of the shit coronary stuff, like DeFi and all of the degenerate gambling, NFTs and all of that crap, just because it can be built on top of Bitcoin. And to be fair, like NFTs have existed on Bitcoin longer than anything else with the omniproids call. So just

because you can doesn't mean you should, definitely rings true for me. And I think we're probably going to go through a phase of all of the smart contracting on top of lightning and everything, where all of this stuff gets rehashed just on Bitcoin at some point. And it will be cheerleading

by people that you thought were maximalists, but they're only maximalists because it can be built on top of Bitcoin. So they'll start cheerleading it. So that's probably where I've got one ion is all of that shit happening. But otherwise, for me, it's just a case of how do we get,

or how do we replace HSBC with a better version that's built around Bitcoin and where we can just help on board like a billion Bitcoiners. And then we'll start seeing more merchants do money to get paid in Bitcoin, more people games, their salaries paid in Bitcoin. And that's so

for we probably will go from there, even technologically for a billion Bitcoiners, we've got a long way to go. But that's where my mind is at with it. How do we do that? I couldn't really care less about the price. The price will follow. Yeah, and it draws people in. Do you have any thoughts on

what's happening? I mean, obviously you're now going into Brazil, and it sounds like they certainly need Bitcoin. What's your thoughts on what's happening in El Salvador? And do you have any thoughts about South America in general and Bitcoin? I'm no leading expert on South America.

I just know that it's a part of the world where inflation, even when Bitcoin's in a bear market for the most of the world, it's still a bull market in that region, just purely based upon the shit house really goes on with their local currencies. And it's huge market. There's a huge

amount of people there. It's not the richest part of the world. Like we've also just registered with FinCEN, so we can go to market in the US. So we've got quite a few states where we'll be going to market there early next year. But yeah, South America for me is same with Africa. Africa is

a huge place with a huge amount of people. Again, not the richest, so you're not going to be doing like billions of dollars in volume across like a couple of countries. But it's something that can pull the rest of the world up and level that playing field. Maybe it's probably a little bit

naive of me still to think that Bitcoin can solve or aid those problems in the world. It's got to help, right? You would think so if the world is logical, which every single day seems to throw something back in my face to show that it's not actually

logical and nothing actually works how you would think it would. But I think so. I think Bitcoin can help. I don't think it fixes every single human problem or problem that's created by human beings or the shortcomings of human beings around the world. But it can help. That's for sure.

Yeah, it seems to me, like you say, not everything's logical, but just people having a better money that isn't inflating away at a ridiculous rate. So they're losing all their time and energy seems as though it's a pretty good idea. It seems as though that's going to help a lot of people.

And also the fact that people can have access to it where they wouldn't necessarily be able to get a bank account seems as though it's a pretty good idea. And the fact that people can send payments to each other and maybe work together from around the world and use this as the payment

rails seems like a good idea. And when you put those all together, yeah, we're in a clown world. Yeah, there's a bunch of psychopaths and sociopaths running the world and they're fucking nightmare.

I don't think we'll escape that. No, I don't think we're going to run into some like utopian world because Bitcoin exists. But I think what it does do is it increases my ability for those that do have it, like myself, lucky enough to be able to move over here without Bitcoin. I would have even

had the incentive to move over here and stuff. And again, just to touch on El Salvador, I'm really conflicted because part of me is like, yeah, that's great. Maybe the vast majority of people need leaders, whether or not he's a good one or a bad one. Am I really wanting to see

Bitcoin succeed by force? It's not what I signed up for. But I don't know, it really does conflict me whether or not it's a good thing or a bad thing that people are forced to accept it. But are they? Yeah, they have this wrong. I think so.

I may have this wrong, but I was under the impression that you can still not use it if you don't have the technical capability. If you're like running a small shop that you don't have a phone or anything like that, that it supposedly isn't forced. I doubt it is forced or policed. And I'm not too

familiar with the wording of their local legislation that they actually brought in. I have got better things to read like the case that's happening in Florida at the minute with my friend Craig.

Let's try and get everybody's Bitcoin back for them. Yeah, I'm not 100% sure. But even still like legal tender, should it be a thing? That's probably the bigger question. Money should be a social contract as opposed to a legally

enforced one with legal tender laws. Sure, I agree. I agree with you. But it is technically now it is. Yeah, but then would we end up with like five million different currencies in like all the different shit coins in every country?

Shiba inu. I had somebody that I went to school with messaged me asking me. I know what you're probably going to say. Like, should I sell it because it's gone up? He said, he turned around and said to me, are you probably going to tell me to hold on to it? I've got quite a bit of money in that

Shiba. I was like, mate, take it off. This was before Liverpool played Man United. I said, he's a Man United fan. I said, go and take that money off there and stick it on Liverpool, smashing Man United. You got much better odds of like not getting wrecked.

He should have listened to me. I don't know if he did it or not, but then I just went on like a 10-minute rant of why shit coin in is fucking stupid. It's a gamble. You're not an investor.

You're not some magic trader, which reminds me of my talk coming up at CoinFest in Manchester. Are you going? I was supposed to be going, I was supposed to be coming up with Nick, actually, but something that has come up that I can't say on air, but that is immovable, unfortunately.

But maybe next time round, what is your talk on? Oh, trading and how to trade through volatility. You can come and learn from an industry, an industry veteran about trading. So what's that? Don't trade.

Sir, most of the people, when you go to these conferences where there is like an element of shit coinery, I like to go because I like to give shit coiners a hard time, especially when they're on the stage. I use it to sharpen my abilities of bantering shit coiners. So, heckling.

Yeah, basically. And just asking them the difficult questions was like, why do you need a token?

Why do you need a blockchain? What do you actually understand about the actual blockchain technology that you're talking about? Good. I'm not coming now. This sounds like fun. So, yeah, so my talk is going to be trying to get educated on the crowd. But when you mention trading in the

title of your talk, the room gets a lot more full. Yes. So, I'm going to rug pull the audience.

I like it. I'm just giving it all away right now. But, yeah, you should be fun. They won't be listening. They won't be listening to like this. Not to this show. Show. So, yeah, so that's that's the plan is just to have some fun with it and explain to them.

This is how a trade works. Somebody buys somebody sells and what's to stop you being the fool on the wrong side of this trade, because that's all you're doing.

It doesn't always go up forever. So, yeah, it should be fun. It's a shame that you can't make it. Next time. And at some point, I'd love to come up to man. I've got a couple of mates who are moving there. So, if I do, we'd go for a drink and then ride some motorbikes at 180 miles an

hour afterwards. No chance. Do you think the insurance would be able to let me?

Do you ride or not? No, no, no, I'm sensitive. I understand numbers. I've got like, we got five kids. So, I want to see them have families themselves. That's reasonable. And to be fit, like the guy that we get the coffee from, he's a TT rider. And I watched the TT documentary

the other day. And he hit the wall at like 170 miles an hour. And just balanced. Yeah. Fuck knows how that guy is still alive. He was alive. Yeah. It's nuts. And I take, I said to him, I said, I take my hat off to you. Yeah. I can, I like driving, put me in a decent motor. I drive

around the track. But yeah, motorbike, the numbers just don't make sense. Like for the amount of people that die for the small proportion of actual amount of the road traffic that cycles make up, don't get me wrong. The speed is just awesome. Yeah. But yeah, I'd want like a big giant like

full wrap. Zorb. I'm probably talking bounce into next week. If he was to come off what I am. I sold mine, actually sold it and stacked because I got very, I missed a lorry by, I don't know, an inch or two at red lining on an S thousand hour our sport. So that's

close on to a mile an hour. And I don't know how I didn't hit it. One pulled out in front of the other. I didn't know there was two. I thought there was just one went round it. The other one pulled out. And I, it, I had to pull over and just sit there for a few minutes and just go,

but you had a twitchy arse hole with that one. Oh, yes. I was surprised. I didn't literally ship myself. Wow. I just, I took myself off to one side and I said, you know what, you've got a missus you love. You've got a pretty nice life. What are you doing? This is not worth it. Stacks

and sat sell the bike. And that's what I did. And I haven't, I haven't gotten one again since. But the itch is always there. I can imagine like the amount of adrenaline and fun that can be had on one of them. My, one of my best friends, he like pretty much exactly the same. He like did his test,

bought a nice bite. And it's you within four weeks, he was like, no, I'll die on this thing. If I carry on, got off it. And yeah, sold it. Yeah. It's the smart thing. It's the smart thing. I'll bring a bicycle out. We'll go, we'll go for a couple of points and

then I'll go on a bicycle instead. Me. The hills around here are insane. It's probably why Mark haven't actually so good on a push bike. But yeah, we took the, we do go out on the bikes and stuff.

And yeah, there's some, some good hills. And to be fair, the drivers and everything around here are pretty aware. Cycling's a big thing on the island. And so it's walking, like speed walking.

They do like this parish walk thing. And it's like 80 odd miles and you have to complete it in 24 hours. But you can't run. You've got to walk. Wow. 80 miles is quite a distance. Yeah, it's a bit stupid. And you see them training for it. And it's like fair play to them. But it's like a,

there's such a, like a community feel to the island that when they do it, it's like a summer fate type thing. And people make treats and stuff and they hand them out and everything. Almost tempted to make some brownies. I'm in the mouth. That would be fun. For the people

that are in the walk, take the pain away. It would be fun. Take the pain away from the blisters. Exactly. So now, yeah, completely like the round random chap for an hour. I really enjoyed it. I hope we covered the bits you wanted to.

How was my marketing this time? Because last time you said that I was a bit stomach. Yeah, you were terrible last time. I'm not. I can't remember what you said. It was like, hi, I'm Danny and I like Bitcoin. Yeah, it's true though.

Cool. Yeah. It's always a lie. It's all good. No, it's always a pleasure to speak to you, mate. And like I said before, I really do appreciate the sponsorship. And it's really interesting to see what you guys are doing and pushing in all these different directions and just put out some

good content. That's all I care about. I do my best. But yeah, I appreciate it. And I won't see you at coin fest, but at some point we'll go and have a drink and yeah, I'll probably come and see man. Yeah, I have to come over and then we can like heck all the coin corner guys.

They're all great by the way. They're literally in the building next to us.

Yeah, I think they're great. Like Danny, Zach, and like Molly and everybody. Literally, when we moved over, like Molly did our shopping for us whilst we was in isolation for the two weeks.

Oh, really? She was a superstar. Yeah. So yeah. And Danny's lovely. When I spoke to him before, he sent me he sent me some socks after we did the conversation. The empty sock. I had literally bought loads of them before like quite a few pairs of them before like even moving over here and

stuff. Yeah, cool. Yeah, they're a good point. They've got a nice team. Good team of like young enthusiastic Bitcoiners. Their accountant is hilarious. We got him drunk because we sponsored a boxing do like it's called thriller in the villa because the villa is like the theatre type

venue in the middle of Douglas and they have like a white collar boxing event and we sponsored it. Like love boxing. So we invited yourself or do you just walk? Used to. I used to. But now we sponsor like Callum Johnson, the light heavyweight pro. He should be 2022. You should probably be

fighting Joe Smith Jr. for the world title. Could be a fight in the US. So we sponsor him. Nice. Friend of mine. My missus went to school with him and stuff like local lad to where from. So in response to the boxing here, we sorted a whole bunch of stuff out and we invited the coin corner

team out. So we got them smashed, which was a good night. I was so ill the next day. I had to catch the boss into Douglas into the into the office and it was the longest bus ride I've ever been on in my life. I swear I'll still drunk. But yeah, like literally cold sweats on the bus. I was like,

Danny, what are you doing? The CEO of financial, like I've a company. It would be Bitcoin otherwise. Yeah. I was just like, what are the people we're playing at? I love it. But yeah, we literally want to turn this street into like Satoshi Valley. So yeah, it's a few more units filled there then.

Or you two of both, I know of a couple of other Bitcoiners who are scouting around now. I won't dox them, but who are scouting around for property. How much more of the street needs to be bought up before it can be Satoshi Valley. Well, we need to infiltrate the government building, which is

also to like one side, Tim Walz, which is literally the government building. So we kind of need to infiltrate there and get some Bitcoiners into power into the treasury. And then we say we've got coin corner to the other side. In their building, there's a company that's building out a GBP

stable coin, I think. And then there's some shit corners in there. There's a disproportionate amount of shit corners on the island, but they get everywhere. But we just take the piss. I do anyway.

Yeah, I know a few Bitcoiners that are looking at coming over. We've got team members that are looking at coming over from Australia and stuff to relocate here, because it's insane what they're going through. It's fucked. It makes me so angry. I just fucking, I don't want to get into it.

Yeah, be careful. Your social credit score might go down for wrong thing. Mine's already less than zero. I think I'm well screwed on that front. I wonder if we can go negative. Maybe that's the game, because once you go negative, then you're only increasing the number. So you're like an

overflow. Yeah. Yeah. Who can who can have the highest score? Have a little competition. Yeah, it's all a bit nuts. So yeah, the more Bitcoiners we can get here, like actual solid Bitcoiners that want to build real good services. I've not helped them wherever I can to come over.

That is literally the dream to have this Satoshi Valley. Who needs Silicon Valley when you can have Satoshi Valley in the middle of the RAC? Yeah, exactly. And there's no homeless here. Really? No, I've not seen one person that's homeless.

It sounds brilliant. I've never been. I'm definitely going to come now. The pinnacle is all of the beef is grass fed, and that literally even the milk tastes better here for it. Underwater growth, he'll be very happy. Have you just docked somebody?

No, no, no. He's not going over there. He's, do you know, untapped? He does all the cattle and beef in America. He's really pushing proper, you know, doing things the old way, not shoved and farmed and filled with chemicals and trying to get quality beef. Yeah, the quality of the food

here. And here's the thing, because there's so much money on this island, like disproportionate amount of like billionaires and stuff, and because it's such a small place, restaurants and everything live and die by their reputation. Yeah. So the restaurants are pretty awesome. For such a small

place, you've got plenty of good quality restaurants and stuff. So yeah, this should be, I should get a job for like locate IM, which is like one of the government entities, trying to get people to read it. This show is sponsored by Isle of Man. Thanks very much for listening. But stay away

if you're going to come and annoy me with your shitcoinery or your delusional Bitcoin stances. Yeah, no one who listens to this show, shitcoins, I don't think. But yeah, thanks, mate, for coming on. And thanks for what you're doing. Yeah, I will hopefully catch up with you soon, hopefully in

person. And I look forward to it very much. Yeah, you have to come over me. If not, I'll be over at some point. Nice one. All right, then, Danny, well, take care, enjoy the rest of your evening, and we'll speak soon. Awesome. Thanks a lot.