Bitcoin is under attack with @sovrynmindset

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.

Let's go!

Now, what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison. Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right, you ungovernable misfits. I'm your host, Max. Everybody knows that Bitcoin is useless, worthless, and doomed to fail. But what if everyone's wrong? What if it's the system that is doomed to fail?

Join me as I speak to some of the brightest people in the space and slither to the deepest, darkest depth of the Bitcoin rabbit hole.

Welcome back, everyone. Today's guest is Michael. He's been putting some threads out on Twitter. He's been questioning if we have any attack vectors in Bitcoin. And although this is annoyed a lot of people, I actually think it's really good.

I think that we have to have I had on a swivel and we have to be thinking critically. We have one shot, and we can't fuck this up. So it was an absolute pleasure speaking to him. I think he came up with some valid points.

And I think it's something that we should all be thinking about a little bit more. Before we start, I just want to say thank you to everyone who's been reaching out about the new website.

Me and Mr. Crown have been putting a lot of time into it. And yeah, really appreciate the comments. I'd also like to thank everyone who's been sending sats and messages by the Fountain app that really is appreciated.

And if anyone has any questions, you can always reach out. Thank you also to the show sponsors. We'll start with Casa. Casa make things very simple for anyone who's thinking about multi-sick security.

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They were the first people to integrate lightning. And their team are always working to bring new features and possibilities to their users. Check them out at fastbikorns.com. And if anyone has any questions, you can reach out to me.

And finally, we have foundation devices. I have the pleasure of sitting down with Zach and Q&A today. I'll have that show out in a couple of days. And we discussed the new passport. It's looking incredible.

If you haven't already checked it out, go to foundation devices.com and have a look. It's got all sorts of new features, a new app. It's thinner. It's absolutely stunning and very feature rich.

Privacy and security comes first. So connecting to the app is done over the tour. And everything that they can, every step of the way, they have guide rails up to protect users. It's an incredible product.

I'm very, very proud to be working with these guys. And I'll be dropping the episode in a couple of days. So look out for that one. Foundation devices.com. And use the code bit by bit to get $10 off.

Enjoy the show. And remember to check out ungovernable misfits.com to see all the articles, podcasts, Fuddbusters, art, and everything else. Here we go. I heard that perfect. I was just getting ready with the record button.

You're coming through much clearer now. Awesome. Yeah, well, thanks so much for joining me today, mate. I think we chatted a little bit in the mesh to Dell. A month or so ago, you jumped in for a little bit.

And I've been seeing you are one of the only people on Bitcoin Twitter who is thinking critically and bothering to actually look into things rather than just cheerleading and bullshitting and all the other stuff that I'm seeing everywhere.

So I'm really pleased to have you on here and really looking forward to chat with you. Yeah, well, thanks for having me on. It's good to be here. And in regards to that, thinking critically and asking these questions, it's not really something I planned.

But as we're moving towards more of an adversarial environment, I think what kicked it off was the trucker protests and just the extreme measures the government was taking in order to limit people's ability to transact financially.

And I think that put Bitcoin on the map. And so I just started to recognize that, hey, we're going to have to deal with some challenges. And I don't see anybody really asking these questions or really taking this seriously, at least in a public perspective.

I just see people cheering it on. I see shallow platitudes on Twitter, these slogans where people are just basically cheering number go up. And all types of platitudes, which I don't think address certain issues that should be addressed right now.

Yeah, it's not easy to criticize Bitcoin because people are very, very invested in it. And for good reason, when I say invested, I don't just mean financially. I mean, emotionally. And in terms of tying an idea of a future to it, I think for many people, they see it as hope.

Like they see it as a chance. But then, at the same time, they don't want to hear the criticisms, which I think is incredibly important. Because if we are to believe that this is our best chance and best way to fight back against the bullshit that we were seeing in Canada and all over the rest of the world,

I mean, that was, like you say, a massive wake-up call. I think for a lot of people, and also, like you say, put Bitcoin on the map. And I think things like that, as good as it is that we have it, and as good as it is that people are waking up to it, it does accelerate things, and it puts us into, and then they fight us stage.

It was only a couple of years they were laughing. And I don't think many people are ready. I don't think lapping on Twitter and repeating the same old slogans helps. So I read through your thread, and I have to say, I agree with almost everything on there.

And it's good to have you put it out there, because I'm sure that hasn't been easy. I'm sure that people have attacked and got very upset about it. But at the end of the day, if Bitcoin can't survive having someone let you come out and point out some potential flaws or issues, then it's fucked. It's not going to survive.

It's not going to survive a state attacking us. We would fold immediately. Yeah, exactly.

With me and basically asking these questions and getting all the heat and hate for it, it's kind of one of those things I've always done throughout my life. I've been pretty objective in my worldview for as long as I can remember.

I remember on 9/11 the day after, or the next class after, I was asking these questions that were getting me in all types of trouble with the teacher and the students in my class. And it was just basically taking the Socratic route and just asking questions, trying to get to the truth

and really get to where people's thinking is coming from. And so I've just been used to it. Many people don't realize, but we've been in clown world for a long time. It just hasn't been this apparent.

And so I've always been pointing out the inconsistencies in clown world. I remember taking on my fraternity with Obama and basically pointing out a lot of the narrative around Obama being pretty much a fraud based on his actions and his policies and what he's gonna be doing.

And that got me so much heat because during that time, everybody was ready for some type of change and Obama seemed to be this great hope. So I'm kind of used to it. But yeah, I do think that a lot of people are emotionally invested.

It's what their hopes rely on, especially in this world where if you look out into the future, it's not that bright. And Bitcoin is kind of that life raft. And so nobody wants to hear anything that could potentially be negative as far as dampening that hope.

And that's cool, but I like to operate objectively. And for a lot of these people, I think they've staked their reputation. They've staked their income. They've staked everything on Bitcoin's success.

So they've staked their following. All of that is on Bitcoin's success. So if they came out and started talking about these issues, I think that it would be very difficult for them. So I'm happy to do it, it's all good.

- I think that comes down to like engagement because if you've sent out a tweet saying Bitcoin's gonna go to a million dollars, or some obvious bullshit like that, then you're gonna get loads of likes and retweets and engagement and people are all happy and combined.

It's part of the reason with this show that I focus so heavily on privacy and security and pointing out where there are flaws and trying to get people to wake up a little bit and understand that this fight is not going to be simple.

You don't walk in and take away the biggest power in the world really, which is creating, controlling the money and think that these people are gonna give it up easily and smile. Like they are gonna come after us, they're gonna do everything they can to stop this.

And yeah, Bitcoin's incredible and it is designed to operate in these sort of situations. But it doesn't mean that we can sit back on our laurels and just expect everything to work. You know, I've staked everything on Bitcoin.

I am completely all in. If this doesn't work financially, I'm fucked. Reputation, I'm fucked. You know, hope-wise, I'm fucked. But that doesn't mean that we should shy away from seeing where the issues are because if we just bury our heads in the sand and just expect and hope that everything is gonna be fine, it won't be.

And we're still at a stage where we can actually do things that are gonna help us and make sure that this doesn't fail. So, no, as I say, I'm pleased that you're doing that and it's so important.

- Yeah, so just to jump in here, same thing here. I mean, I tweeted this out before, but my livelihood relies on Bitcoin and Bitcoin's success. But before anything, I'm principled, right?

I'm here for unfettered sound money and free markets. That's why I'm here and that's why I'm into Bitcoin. And if Bitcoin is not gonna offer that, then I'm gonna be very objective about that, right?

And I'm gonna say, hey, this, you know, there's some issues here, right? I'm here because I want free markets and sound money, but it looks like there's some limitations. So how do we overcome that?

I'm just asking that question, basic question, right? Because that's ultimately what I'm here for. I'm just, I'm more here for the principles than the number go up than Bitcoin in general.

I'm not here for a career opportunity. I'm like, I really wanna see the world reorient itself to a place where sound money is the basis of civilization and goodness emerges from free markets.

That's really what I wanna see. And so yeah, when we start heading into a different direction or when there's challenges that lie up ahead, you know, I think that it needs to be pointed out and I think that, you know, we do have the opportunity to kind of course correct and make the changes necessary to secure the network

and further, you know, further decentralize it in a way that it can withstand, you know, nation state forces. - It's obviously clear that you care about this for change. This is not just about number go up, although we all like that.

It's clear to me that you want real change and like you said, free markets and truth. And so, you know, I was wondering why it is that you're thinking like that because it is quite rare and why, you know, from the beginning, it sounds like you've been questioning things.

Like, is that just how you're built? Or is there something that opened your eyes early on in life where you were like, hang on a minute. Things are not quite right here. Like, what led you down this kind of, not necessarily how did you find Bitcoin, but why have you got this mindset and wanting to find truth?

- Yeah, so it probably happened at an early age. I was, you know, my childhood was interesting. I grew up in Miami, but my, you know, my father is from Central America, my mother is from Germany.

So I got to see a lot of the world and I got to experience things pretty early on in life where I noticed there were inconsistencies in certain narratives that I was hearing and what I actually saw around the world.

And I think that perspective there opened up my mind to start questioning things and questioning what people are telling me. And from there on out, it's just been with that mindset. Also in Germany, I was homeschooled by my grandmother and she lived during the time of, you know, during Nazi Germany, basically.

And I was basically, she told me a lot of stories about what it was like to live under totalitarianism. So I've always had the skepticism of authority based off of that. And then also just kind of my experience, my with international background also kind of led me to start questioning things early.

So I just, I think that's where it all started from. And yeah, my principled stance came from Ron Paul, right? I think it was innate within me, but I think Ron Paul was able to define it and articulate it for me.

And it was just basically the libertarian stance of sound, money and free markets. And I immediately gravitated to that as having a lot of merit once I heard it. And I think that a society based on those principles will be a healthy one that offers, you know,

prosperity to more people than anything we've ever seen before. And I think in places where that has been worked on, where, you know, they have had built a civilization on top of those principles, we've seen the outcome as so.

- Yeah, and it seems like it is desperate times now. We really, really need this change. If you look around and just see the crazy shit that's happening, obviously you've mentioned Nazi Germany, my grandparents also fought in the war and one of them was occupied as a child and told me some stories similar.

And I think when you view things through that lens and understand that was not that long ago and the horrors that came from it. And then you start to view things over the last couple of years and you see, you know, the crazy shit that we've been seeing in Canada and that people not along to it.

And it was never on the news. I saw nothing other than on Twitter. And yes, you know, we have this thing Bitcoin, which is incredible. That's why we're both here. That's why we're dedicating our time and so invested in this thing because we think it can bring change.

But if we look at things realistically, the efforts that were put forward and people trying to use Bitcoin in that situation were, in my opinion, it was an embarrassment. I mean, it was really, it was really not good.

And yes, people were trying and I respect people for trying to make something happen. But it certainly showed that there were flaws and basically we must do better because the alternative is totalitarianism.

It is the gulags. It is, you know, a complete panopticon. And that's just the scariest thing I can think of. Like, it keeps me up at night thinking that. And so, you know, that's why these conversations were important and to try and use the tools that are available because it's not all bad.

Like, the stuff that's going on is terrible. But there are some incredible tools being worked on. There are some great things that are out there. There are amazing guides. There are people trying to help.

And I think it's just, I guess, what I'm trying to do with this conversation is like stir things up a little bit and get people to think. And, you know, next time they're about to post something on Twitter, you know, the same old bullshit.

Maybe consider like spending that time trying to get your head around using a tool or like working on UTXO management or playing around with coinjoy or thinking about getting a more private phone or whatever it is, like incremental steps because that's how we move forward.

- Yeah, so, and I think that's, so I think you touched on something there, right? It's like, it was hard to see this. So I've been talking about this for a long time, at least within my, you know, my circle of friends and family and whatever influence I had on social media.

I've been talking about, you know, our, you know, our tiptoe towards totalitarianism. But of course, you know, things were still good. Everything was pretty much still functioning. The economy worked.

And for the most part, you know, we had our civil liberties intact. I think now it's become much more apparent the direction we're headed in. And it's like one of those things where if we don't turn this thing around, we know how this story plays out.

I mean, how many times do we have to go through it to understand what the end game is here, you know? And so, and so for me, it just became very simple, you know, it just became very simple calculation.

Like, hey, do what you gotta do, do whatever is in your power. And I'm not, you know, like, I don't know. I don't, I don't, I consider myself a simple man, right? I'm just trying to live my life, raise a family and do what I need to do to survive.

But I don't know. I just found it that, hey, whatever you can do, just do it because the future that we're headed towards is not bright. And so if that means you gotta get on Twitter and start speaking your mind, do so, you know?

If that means that I gotta do other things, like run for local, you know, run for local office, do it. If that means I gotta get involved in the school board, do it. Like, the point is, do whatever you can in order to steer the ship around.

I think if we all just did that, it would be a major part. You know, it'd be, it'd be a big, it'd all add up and actually steering this the other way. And I think that that's one of the things I tried to get through in my thread was, hey, like look at this dude who went to El Salvador, right?

And just went to the sleepy beach town. And now he started and got them to basically run their beach town on Bitcoin, right? He integrated Bitcoin into the local economy and created a Bitcoin economic zone.

And that created an international monetary movement, right? It got the attention of the president of El Salvador. And now I'm sure other countries are looking into doing the same thing. And that's, you know, that's someone's butterfly effect.

You don't know what kind of actions you take now that can like affect the world for better. And it could be something very simple. So I, you know, I take that approach and who knows? You know, who knows who saw my thread and took it upon themselves to like actually run a node or start mining or work on a project, you know,

which further decentralizes Bitcoin and strengthens the network. So yeah, I think that the alternative, you know, if we don't take action, the alternative, we know what it is. So, you know, we might as well work towards course correcting and building a better future.

- I like what you said there. It's like, oh yeah, I'm a simple man, but I'm doing what I can. And it's like, that's all anyone is. We're all just men, we're all just people who, we have a certain amount of energy and we have a certain amount of time.

And we've just got to try and direct that in the way that we think is going to create the change that we want to see in the world. And, you know, those things that you're talking about are really important.

And beyond orange-pilling, beyond sort of running your node and home mining and being private, it's like, you also need to look after your mental health. You need to look after, you know, physically, you need to make sure that you're fitting.

That's been something for me where the beginning of falling down the rabbit hole, like, it got really dark for a long time where I was just like, the whole world is fucked. Like, everything is so fucked.

And you start to, or certainly for me, like, I was like, I don't know what to do here. And I ended up just like, doom-scrolling and just ended up sort of like, almost like wasting time by getting upset by things like that.

And a big change for me has just been saying, every day I'm gonna record and do something with a podcast. Every day I go to the gym and I absolutely fucking hammer it. I do everything I can to eat well and keep fit and keep my mind right so that when this battle is upon us, I'm the best version of myself so that I can deal with it.

Because, yeah, it probably is gonna get really dark. But getting emotional about that, getting sad about that really doesn't help. Everybody doesn't do anything. So it's like, what can I do today to change things?

And I think that's kind of where we get enough people doing that. Things really start to roll. You know, write one article, write a tweet thread, speak to someone, try and help them. Work on some privacy tech.

Fund something if people don't have time. Or, you know, whatever it is, just, yeah, I'd like to see less cheerleading and less excitement over these, like, oh, a big corporations come in or PayPal's come in, whatever that kind of stuff.

It's like, it's not that exciting to me. I wanna see more like grassroots stuff. - Sure, like, I think, you know, a lot of people are cheerleading adoption at any cost. And I think that's, you know, for someone that is cheering on Bitcoin as sound money, right?

And who believes in free markets? I think that we really need to think about the monetary integrity of the network and whether, you know, adoption at any cost, right? Is really the route that we wanna go.

Personally, I don't like that route. I like filling our ranks with, you know, hardened, orange-pilled Bitcoiners who, you know, live a principled life and base their views on foundational principles, first principles, right?

You know, if we're filling our ranks, and what I mean by that is just like in the community, the businesses, stuff like that. If we're filling our ranks with, let's just say, Marxists and socialists, and, you know, that's gonna be added pressure to bend the knee when the time comes.

And that's gonna be added pressure in your corporation, in your community, in your meetup. And, you know, I just, to me, I think adoption, mass adoption is not what we want. We want adoption by those that are, understand the value proposition of Bitcoin, understand the value of a peer-to-peer network, who will eventually come to say,

"Hey, your fiat is worthless here. "We're only selling our goods and services for sound money." You know, like, that's, I don't like going the practical route. I think that that only goes to hinder the movement towards sound money.

And so, yeah, but as to what you're saying, I think COVID, previously, I think COVID was a big wake-up call that, you know, a lot of us, including, I mean, this is, and I'm speaking pretty much for myself, you know, we're living a fiat-based lifestyle and not really thinking long-term, not basing our actions on principles,

but just rather just going through the motions. And yeah, COVID was a big wake-up call for me to get my life together and get straight and really start living, like, orienting my life to live more principled.

And so that means, yeah, waking up, and also strengthening myself to be able to deal with the challenges that lie ahead, because I think, you know, I think what's happening here is, we're going through a global communist takeover attempt of all our governments, institutions, and that's gonna be challenging, right?

You're going to have obstacles in your way. You know, if you don't wanna bend the knee, if you don't wanna give up your bodily autonomy, if you don't wanna participate in their systems, which require you to, you know, give up certain liberties.

And well, you're gonna have to find ways around that, and that's gonna be challenging and it's gonna be difficult. You know, so, you know, if you're living in unhealthy lifestyle, it's, you wanna reduce the necessity that you have on, you know, the medical system, because now the medical system is basically captured

by Marxists in order to go to, like, you know, I could see a situation where in order to go to hospital, you need to be vaccinated, right? So hey, maybe instead of living in unhealthy lifestyle, you should work towards avoiding that situation.

So get in the gym, start eating right, stop drinking, stop smoking, those type of things, right? And so in order to live a sovereign life, I think, in the future, you're just gonna have to make the effort to do so, you know, because until we get over this hump here, which is, I see it kind of like a historical hump, right?

It's like, it's just, you know, a cycle that we're gonna have to get through. And I am very optimistic that we will get through it, and then on the other side will be prosperity. Now, I don't know how long that will take, and I don't know how rough it will be, but, you know, to make it through,

you're going to have to make adjustments to your life. And I think that's grounding yourself to some principles, and that's being, you know, cognizant of your mental health, and also the information you consume.

And to me, that's just, it's just one of those things where we gotta get back to basics, and in a sense, and drop our feet out, lifestyle. - Yeah, it was interesting you were saying there about like the type of people that we bring in.

You know, I can already tell from you saying to me, like early on, you were already battling against the narrative, you know, whether it be a bomber, or twin towers, or whatever it is. When you've been like that, and it's been a similar experience for me, you spend a lot of time battling, and it hardens you mentally,

it draws people who have had that kind of experience of life in more, and I think you start to understand like why Bitcoin's important more. What I found is now if I'm orange-pilling people, I'm very selective of who I'm orange-pilling, 'cause I realize that the majority of people, they just don't, they're not gonna get this,

they're not gonna understand why it's important outside of number go up. And rather than selling this thing as like, oh yeah, you can 10X or 100X your money, and here's why, and you know, comparing it to gold and all that sort of stuff.

What I'm really doing is just saying to people, you know this is fuck you money, like this is something that you can take control of, and like if you don't trust what's going on in the world, and you think that there's something a bit weird going on, then I can start to explain this to you.

I think that that approach of like bringing someone in with the idea that things are not quite right and things need to change, and that this can potentially be the change, you're much more likely to get them to think about running a node and you know, think about privacy technology and doing the things that really we need

rather than getting basically soft men in to make a quick buck who will fold really, really quickly because they haven't had to deal with the bullshit so they don't really see it. I think a lot of people with this COVID stuff, like very, very few people around me had any idea, just completely went along with it.

And they didn't even realize when they were starting to say things like, oh, we don't think that anyone should be allowed into the hospitals if they haven't been vaccinated. They would be quite comfortable to say things like, oh fuck them, like, you know, if they're gonna be so stupid, then they don't deserve healthcare.

And these are like relatively smart, like normal people saying things like that. And you're like, it just shows how simple, how easy it is to manipulate these people's minds and to take control of them.

And so I don't want them involved. I don't wanna be dealing with them. They can stay in that fiat world and they can drown. And if they wanna toughen up, they can lift themselves out when the time's right.

But yeah, I don't think we need them. I think they are detrimental. - Well, so I mean, my experience with, I mean, quote unquote, orange peeling because I don't think you could even call it.

But like, you know, people come in for the number go up, right? And then you get them into Bitcoin and you try to explain it to them, right? I remember sitting down hours with friends and explaining to them the value proposition of Bitcoin only for them to go the next day, like, and shit coin, right?

And then be like, hey, what's this doge thing? So I've learned not to, you know, I just, I don't engage anymore in that type of, I guess you could call it promotion of Bitcoin. It's only when somebody understands like the value proposition or shows promise in understanding the value proposition

or they're like exactly what you said, right? Hey, there's something funny in the world. And I don't quite know what it is, but I think this Bitcoin thing, you know, might be an answer. Can you help me understand it?

That's when I'm happy to go in depth and put in the time and effort to actually help them understand because it's not that you're just helping them understand Bitcoin. Bitcoin has so many intersectionalities, right?

It crosses with so many parts of our reality that it's really like a huge red pill process. You're pulling these people out of the matrix because once you understand money, you understand a lot of how the world works, right?

And you start to see things that you didn't see before. You start to see parts of the system, the edges of it emerge and you're like, "Oh, wow, I did not know things were like this." And I remember that process for me.

It was, and that's another, you know, that was another moment in my kind of awakening process that really got me motivated to just,

reorient my entire being to exit the fiat system as much as possible. And that was the realization of just how much power the central planners had through the money. Once I understood that and I understood the implications of that and how they're able to corrupt society through their control of money, how they're able to, you know,

basically co-op governments and how a lot of the morality is dictated by the money. I was like, "Whoa, this thing is sinister." And I don't know if it's my soul. I don't know what it is about me, but I just, I wanted nothing to do with it.

And since that day, I've been trying to reorient my life as much as possible to not interact with the fiat system. And so, yeah, it's one of those things where Orange Pilling People now is something that I view as almost, you know, it's a process.

I can remember, you know, talking to people about this and them going through their journey and they would call me at night and be like, you know, it's one of those things where you have the reality, like a lot of the narratives that you've been told that you've based your reality off of, that you've based your identity off of is a lie.

And that's a hard to swallow. It's very emotionally and psychologically uncomfortable. And so I've had to deal with a few like 2 a.m. phone calls of my friends freaking out as they're going down through the red pill process.

So, you know, it's not easy, but I've, you know, as far as like understanding what's going on in the world and the way money works and the way governments operate and all of that stuff, I mean, it's probably never been a better time to do so, right?

More people are waking up every day. - Yeah, absolutely. And in contrast to the disgusting fiat world that we see around us, there is hope. And if we do have sound money and we do have a group of people who are fighting for what's right and fighting for truth, the world can be incredible.

The world can be so beautiful. I've experienced from doing this podcast and getting to speak to a lot of people who are interested in Bitcoin. I get a pretty good vibe. I get a pretty good feeling for the fact that these are very strong, very principled people for the most part and they really care about making change.

Like, there's a lot of people who can earn a load more money, doing something else, doing pretty much anything else, really. And they choose not to because that's not what matters. You know, it is all about the money, but it's not about making money.

It's about making change and I'm very confident. - Just interrupt there. I mean, listen, I spend pretty much my whole day thinking about Bitcoin and reading about Bitcoin. I mean, there's much more lucrative things I could be putting my time into.

So I just wanna prove your point there. It's just one of those things that captures you and you see it as this tool to reorient the world towards goodness and truth. And so it's like, you know, if you're connected to that vision of the future, I mean, you just feel compelled to see how you can use Bitcoin in order to get us there.

- Let's go down that path a minute. Let's think about how things could be if we take the time to do things properly and Bitcoin works the way we hope it will and sort of try and imagine what we think can happen in this world.

And then after that, maybe we can get into some of the attack vectors and things that kind of potentially stand in its way. Because I think that's important to sort of have that vision of where we can go and then we can understand the importance of like, we can't fuck this up.

So like, what to you is in your eyes this working? What does that look like? - So for me, it's a circular economy in which, you know, people operate on a Bitcoin standard. I think it's pretty simple in which there aren't any restraints to trade, you know,

either through mining or through blacklist or whitelist that is just unfettered free markets on a Bitcoin standard. I think that's what Bitcoin winning looks like to me peer to peer and where people are not being persecuted, right?

For transacting with Bitcoin. I don't know if that's what you were looking for, but that's kind of the vision I see is like, hey, we can all operate on an honest monetary standard where we know the supply of Bitcoin.

So we're able to have a measuring stick for value. And, you know, we don't have to operate with third party intermediaries. We can just operate peer to peer and there's no restrictions to doing so.

And we don't have to face any type of repercussions from people monitoring the blockchain and coming after us for our transactions. That's what I think winning looks like. - Yeah, it was very, very similar for me.

I think that circular economy is key. It helps resolve a lot of the issues that we have now. And like you say, these intermediaries that a lot of people are using at the moment, I see them as pretty big problems.

I think it's 'cause a lot of people are still pricing things in dollars and it makes it difficult to not have them involved. A lot of people are still sort of like cashing out and using dollars and that kind of stuff.

But that is the legacy system sort of like latched onto Bitcoin. It's not really Bitcoin. Anything where Bitcoin touches the legacy system, I see as an issue and I guess it's kind of like that old system is diseased, disgusting.

I think the further away we can get the better. And so, you know, with these ideas for circular economy, I think because we have, there's a lot of talk of like, "taint," but really what I see as taint would be anything that's touched legacy, anything that's KYC'd, anything that's trackable and traceable.

That is the diseased part. And so, you know, if people can use coin join or mine at home to make sure that they don't touch that legacy system and then start interacting with each other, that's perfection, that's incredible.

And then it also makes it very, very difficult for these surveillance companies to create issues because it's very hard to understand what's going on there if people are using the right messaging tools.

They are making sure that they're as private as possible and it's completely separate. Then that's absolutely beautiful. I don't know about you, but I think that's possible now. I don't see really other than education what's holding that back.

And if you think about it, right, that circular economy, that's going to empower and enrich the right people, right? The people who have taken upon themselves to understand Bitcoin take a hold of their sovereignty.

And like, this is where merit is gonna be rewarded, right? And so you wanna find those people to interact with, to buy from, right? And you wanna use Bitcoin to do so because like that economy is going to grow prosperous as the fiat economy declines.

And I think what you were describing there is like kind of the more in detail, the way to get there, right? And I think I agree with you that we can do that now, right? We can run our nodes now, we can mine now, we can accept Bitcoin now, we can sell our products for Bitcoin, we can add a premium if they pay in fiat

or we could just decline fiat completely. So like, we have the ability to do this now. And that's one of the things I try to get through in my thread is that, hey, like, we don't have to, so one of my problems is that I think a lot of Bitcoiners and influencers, kind of like what we talked earlier,

cheering on like PayPal and these big corporations coming in, right? They've accepted to some degree like this inner woven nature of Bitcoin and the fiat legacy system, right? And to me, that totally defeats the purpose of Bitcoin as a peer-to-peer electronic cash system, right?

It's like we're not supposed to operate with fiat intermediaries involved because that's where all the problems arise. That's where KYC arises and AML and that's where surveillance can happen.

Oh, we're supposed to empower ourselves with this tool that enables sovereignty, financial sovereignty, monetary sovereignty, economics sovereignty, and we're supposed to actually use it in that way.

We're not supposed to integrate with this fiat system that works to enslave us, right? It's the complete opposite. So I'm, yeah, I agree with what you're saying. And I think that's the route in which those that believe in Bitcoin's power to, well, yeah, and Bitcoin's potential to empower the individual

need to take action to do so. Hmm, a lot of it is education. A lot of it is just getting people to understand that like it's not that scary. I think that there's a big barrier in people's minds where they think, oh, you know, running a node's really difficult or mining at home's really difficult and that there's so much fear mungering

and the same in like the coin-joined space. Like there's so much fear with using these tools and making mistakes and all this kind of stuff. But having the guides out there is really important and just having people being able to reach out to each other and like check with things.

Like I've been messing around with this for a long time now and I'm still every day, there's something I'm stumped with, there's something which just goes way out above my head. And then I reach out to people like Bitcoin Q&A and people who are much more capable, technically, than I am.

And I say, look, I need some help with this. Can you help? And people always will. And so it just really comes down to putting the time in and accepting that, you know, if you're to believe that the previous system is fucked, then you should understand that you don't want to interact with it.

And I'm a little bit of a hypocrite there because, you know, like on my shop, I will accept dirty, dirty slave notes. Like I still accept it because I know that the majority of people don't want to pay in sat still and I'll still take their slave notes and I'll convert it to Bitcoin.

And I really know that I'm going to hold that. That's the other thing too, right? It goes on the other end too. And that's what I think I wrote that somewhere. I might have wrote it. So I turned my thread into an article and I think I added some stuff into it.

And I think one of them was that we have to be able to, or we have to be willing to pay in Bitcoin whenever the opportunity arises in order to bring about the circular economy, right? If we're constantly, you know, if we're just hodling and we're not using our Bitcoins, you know, it's going to incentivize people just to accept fiat.

And so like it's kind of one of those things we, I don't think we can wait for hyper Bitcoinization to happen to spend our coins. And whether that is a simple conversion beforehand from fiat to Bitcoin in order to spend your Bitcoin, I mean, that is a signal to the merchant

that, hey, there's people out there willing to spend their Bitcoin. So let me like put the effort into, you know, setting up my business to do so. I think that's another important factor that needs to happen in order to build out this circular economy.

I don't know if that makes sense. But that's where I see it. It totally does. That's why I say like I'm kind of a hypocrite because I do take the fiat. But I do it because I know that it's about 80% of people who buy anything from me want to pay in fiat.

And maybe there's some crossover because not everyone's a Bitcoiner who buys some of the clothing and stuff. But I obviously have the option on there and I'd rather people pay in Bitcoin.

But yeah, I think it's, I think it's difficult. Like a lot of people that say they're waiting for hyper Bitcoinization. Whereas someone like me who literally is all in, I would rather pay with Bitcoin for that reason.

So anytime there's an option to pay with Bitcoin, I pay with it because I'm constantly mining anyway. And I always need some fiat to pay for certain things just to live my life. So, you know, right now, if someone, if I need to pay some of something, it will be in Bitcoin because pretty much that's all I have.

But yeah, I think people are waiting. They're just thinking, oh, you know, this thing's going to be a million or whatever it is at some point. It's like, yeah, it probably is. But it doesn't mean that you can't earn more Bitcoin.

So if you're going to spend some, you earn some back or you spend and replace or you're mining, you're doing whatever you are to constantly be having more Bitcoin than you did before. Like there's no reason not to spend it then.

I think that's just like, I don't know whether it's like a mental hurdle for people or whether people are bullshitting. And actually, when they say, you know, I'm all in and blah, blah, blah, maybe they're maybe they're not.

Maybe there's some lapping because it's not difficult to use. And I don't see the reason why you wouldn't. The other thing that I hear some people say is like, oh, well, I don't want to be tracked.

I don't want to be traced. Like if I spend now, I'm going to be taxed or whatever it is. And I'm like, well, have you used coin join? Oh, no, well, have you bought any no KYC sets? Well, no, have you tried mining?

No, well, OK, maybe you should fucking do that and start actually thinking about having real digital cash that you can really use and not be worrying. Like if I spent from my samurai wallet with no KYC coins that I've bought, I'm not worrying about that sort of stuff.

It doesn't matter to me at all. And I think that's maybe where the issue comes is people are scared. Yeah, maybe, you know, I mean, that's another that's another valid point as to, you know, the now the reporting requirements that come into effect from spending your Bitcoin.

I mean, that's that's that's an issue because if Bitcoin is meant to be used as peer-to-peer electronic cash and we're worried about reporting all our, you know, gains and losses to the government, you know, that's just going to create another obstacle to overcome

in order to spend your coins, which creates another obstacle to creating a circular economy, you know, that's why I think what El Salvador is doing is so healthy for Bitcoin because, you know, you can spend your Bitcoin over there and you not have to worry about any reporting requirements, right?

Like your Bitcoin is cash over there. That's what and here in the United States, Bitcoin is property. And so with property, you have to report your gains and your losses and that creates just a major hurdle and I can understand why circular economy hasn't been built out that way or because of that, you know, it's a big problem.

The way I view it is that certainly England and the United States and many other of the Western countries, I see it is very, very unlikely that they're going to want to accept Bitcoin as cash.

They're going to want to keep it as pottery property because it makes it easier to regulate and they are not going to want to give up this power, allow Bitcoin to be cash because it takes that power away from them.

It's as simple as that. So I don't see that as likely to happen. It's great that it's happening in El Salvador. I don't know whether it will happen anywhere else. Hopefully it will. But until then, I think if on one hand you understand that there are huge amount of

evil corrupt fucks who are running the world and some of the things that they are doing are hideous and taking away your rights and freedoms. And if we carry on the trajectory we're on, things look really bad.

If you believe that, then maybe consider getting some proper ungovernable money. Like maybe consider having some low KYC sats and, you know, it's not that hard. And if they're prepared to do that to you and you want to go and buy a t-shirt with Bitcoin and you don't report on it, I'm sorry.

Like everyone would have a go at me for saying this, but fuck doing the tax on it. Fuck that. Yeah, yeah. I mean other measures could be just to move to friendly or jurisdictions, you know, and start creating the local economy there.

It depends, you know, it depends on how far you want to take this. But like you were saying, you know, you're a hypocrite because you still accept, you know, we all are. We're in a transition period.

But I think it's time to start thinking about ways to transition to a Bitcoin standard. And not just accept this, you know, fiat Bitcoin, you know, interwoven existence and like actually now walk the walk and try to remove yourself as much as possible.

I mean, that's one of the things that I tried to get through on my thread because if it exists, if Bitcoin exists in this environment in this way, I don't think it gives us the vision in the future that we all want from a Bitcoin standard.

Like if they're able to track and trace our transactions because we have to go through a third party intermediary like an exchange or like a cash app or something like that. I mean, it now turns Bitcoin into like a monetary panopticon, right?

And where everything is surveilled and tracked and that is not the vision that I think a lot of Bitcoiners are aligned with. So it's one of those things where I don't think we can exist in this state.

I mean, we can, but it's not going to give us a future that we want. We have to start transitioning to Bitcoin standard. And I don't, you know, in any way that you can, in any way that you see fit, you know, do so as much as you can.

What sort of tools do you like using for this? Like do you have any preferred nodes or hardware or wallets or coin joined implementations or like, you know, we're talking about mining at home?

How do you look at this in terms of having your own no KYC stash, your own money that you can spend, however you see fit and like create the circular economy with? Like what tools are you leaning on?

So as far as my personal setup, I don't really like talking about it. Fair enough. Yeah, no fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I have used wasabi. I haven't used samurai, but I'm probably going to give that a go.

You know, I, you know, it gets, it gets into like, I don't know how much I want to divulge here or whatnot. Listen, don't, don't feel like you have to at all. You know, it's, uh, it's a personal setup.

Let's just say the privacy tools are out there. The everything you need to, to be self-sovereign here in your Bitcoin usage is out there. It's just a matter of going and learning, you know, learning and implementing it.

That's it. So, um, what, so we can talk about the different, um, the different stuff. I mean, do you have any particular software that you like using any, any, um, coin joined wallets or anything like that? I mean, have you used wasabi or samurai or join market?

I've used join market a little bit, um, to be honest, I find it complicated. Like I said, I'm not that technical. I wouldn't touch wasabi with a barge pole. I use samurai basically on a daily basis.

Basically what I tend to lean on is samurai wallet, Ronan Dojo. If I'm using lightning, then Raspberry Blitz is my preference. I keep it pretty simple. Like I don't really use much outside of that.

I like foundation devices, uh, as my hardware. I run a Google Pixel, which is de-Google running Calix, you know, for a phone, which I'm very happy with. And then I've got a couple of different laptops for different jobs, depending on what I'm doing.

But, um, yeah, trying to, basically trying to use as much as I can that's, that's free and open source and, um, as private as possible. So yeah, so I'll just say that, uh, you know, whatever I use is very similar to what you described.

And, um, yeah, wasabi, them coming out with this news is just, you know, I don't know how, how I feel about that. Um, I'm not shocked. Yeah, and I don't know what's going on between them and samurai wallet.

And I just see, I see bickering on Twitter and stuff like that. I just don't, I just don't pay attention to it. Yeah. But I don't know, man, it seems like we're going to have to get to a point where we're all like working towards a goal here of making Bitcoin much more fungible

to counteract the privacy issues, um, that we're seeing from Blacklist and, um, you know, but it's kind of weird to have a privacy wallet now, Blacklist actual UTXOs. It's like, I don't know, man.

I don't know how, how they, they, you know, they square that, but it just-- This resulted. Yeah, it's utterly retarded, but completely expected at the same time. Can you say why? I'm not, I'm not familiar.

If you could just, uh, fill me in there, like go as well. Yeah. I mean, that, that for a long time, like address reuse and some of the ways they've had these things set up as being a concern for a long time.

I'm not the most technical guy in the world, but even to me, it seems obvious that, uh, it's not a good idea to use their software. And yeah, there is a lot of beef between these different coin join implementations, and I try and stay out of it as much as I can.

And I don't really care what people use. Like, I never, you know, someone says to me, I'm using wasabi. I'm like, fair enough. Like maybe just look into some of the research and try and actually track yourself through the process and see how you get on and then compare it to the other options.

Like, it's not for me to make a decision what other people use, but from my understanding, the best thing that you can use if you want to be private is samurai. I also have respect for join market.

They're a very good team. Like, I like the guys there, but I just find it a little bit, a little bit tricky to use. And also most of the people that I'd reach out to day to day when I have issues all use samurai.

And so it just makes it more simple for me to navigate. But, um, yeah, I'm in each to their own, basically. I mean, generally, I'd say those some things better than nothing. Like, I'm never going to have a go at someone for trying something.

I think like, and also like, no one should ever listen to me. Like, if I'm saying, oh, use samurai, no one should listen to me. Everyone should go, well, I'll take that with a pinch of soul.

And I'm going to go and do my research and make the decision for themselves. But I think what's clear is people should be using something. People should be improving their privacy somehow.

Because otherwise, you know, this is a public ledger. And when you're tied to your KYC info is tied to your Bitcoin and then you start using it, well, they're going to track every single thing you do, every interaction.

And that's almost worse than the traditional system. Yeah. So, um, and I'm on your, I'm on a similar level as you, I would say, as far as I'm not the most technical person, but I am competent enough that if I put in the effort, I could figure stuff out.

But a lot of these implementations of, you know, certain aspects of Bitcoin network, I haven't found them two user-friendly. So I just, I don't even bother because I just kind of have to wait until something more intuitive

comes out because I don't know, I, or at the time, I just didn't have the, I didn't find it valuable enough to go through all the troubleshooting and learning process to figure it out, because it's, it could be a little bit difficult.

And I was just like, man, if this is difficult for me, who's willing to put in the time and the effort to at least give it a go, I can't imagine this being adopted on a, on a wide scale. And so I was like, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna wait.

I'll give it a shot, like, you know, every six months and see where we're at. And I don't know if that's, so, you know, I don't know if that's me being a hypocrite. I don't know, you know, I'm not going to learn programming and try to make this better, you know, that's, that's, I don't see that being my role.

I don't see, you know, I just don't see where that being a strength of mine. And so I feel a little bit hypocritical with being like, oh, yeah, you guys got to hurry up and, and, and get these privacy, get these privacy tools out there.

Like, you know, like, who the fuck am I, right? I'm not doing, I'm not doing anything on that front, but it's true. It's like, okay, if we're going to want to use Bitcoin as, like, as the sound money, we, we do need these privacy tools.

And now we're moving into an adversarial environment. And so it's kind of like the clock is ticking. Completely agree. And I don't think that you're a hypocrite for saying any of that sort of stuff.

Like, I'm very much the same, you know, Ronan Dojo is what I tend to use paired with Samurai. And I love the team. Like, what they've done is fucking incredible. But, you know, realistically, a year and a half ago, two years ago, when I was first starting playing around with it and building it, I had an absolute nightmare.

Like, absolutely horrific time as you spent days and days and days trying to troubleshoot and have problems. And, you know, luckily their support was really good and people were really helpful.

But, you know, it was only because I really cared about trying to improve my privacy that I would spend that time. But then we stepped forward to today and you've got like, they've got their new Ronan Dojo Tanto out, which is, I had a play with it the other day, it's fucking gorgeous.

It takes about 10 minutes to set up. The user interface is beautiful, like it's so simple to use. And then you scan a QR code to your Samurai wallet and done. That's it, done. And that is, you know, in my opinion, the best bit of software and hardware pairing out there and piss easy.

So we've come a long way, but, you know, there's always more to be done. Sure. And, you know, that's kind of where I'm coming from or where I'm coming from. Let me just put it like that is where I was kind of just sitting, sitting on my butt.

I was more, I wasn't really focused on Bitcoin for the past couple of years. I was more focused on kind of our descent into tyranny and just tweeting about that and paying attention to what's going on with, you know, this whole communist takeover around the world.

And like I said, it wasn't until, you know, the whole Canadian trucker thing that it caught my attention. And I was like, oh, wow, hold up. Let me, let me go ahead and pay attention to what's going on here because I can see some potential issues down the road to where I'm at now where I'm like, okay, I actually need

to start getting more involved in Bitcoin. Like I need to get involved in mining. I need to get involved. I need to get refamiliarized myself with the software that's available and stuff like that.

So I'm going to have to go down that route again and see and see where we're at. But it's, you know, it's definitely been a wake up call to get, take, to get more into what's happening in the space, you know, and I think that started with my thread.

And so I'll be, I'll be going down that route. I might be calling you up and asking you for some help. Anytime. Anytime, mate. Yeah, I've been through it all. I know how stressful it is. I know how frustrating it is.

And I'm always happy to try and help. Like I say, it's got so much easier. And, you know, you can be forgiven for stepping away from Bitcoin and spending your time worrying about the crazy shit that's going on because it's affected all of us.

Personally, especially last year, I couldn't really concentrate on Bitcoin. Like I had my basic setup done like I was relatively private. And, you know, I was acquiring my Sats as and when I could.

But outside of that, the whole COVID thing just completely took my attention because my view was, okay, we've got this really fucking private and good money used correctly. And it's amazing.

But it's not that much good if I can't travel. I can't move and they're going to come and forcibly inject some bullshit into my body. Like there are things that I have to concentrate on outside of Bitcoin.

And my attention shifted massively. And I think that happened for loads of people because it was like an immediate, serious threat. Like it was crazy shit going on. And so, you know, this year is now a bit more focused on Bitcoin again.

Because it's like, well, you know, full circle coming back. It's like, well, we're back to the only thing we can really do is look after ourselves, stay fit and healthy and try and build this circular economy.

Because there's not a lot else we can do. So yeah, I would say that, you know, it's good that you're refocusing on it. I'm there to help with anything that I can or point them in the right direction.

Because as I say, I'm not that technical, but it's the best way that we can fight it. Sure. Yeah. Things have kind of normalized a bit where I can now, you know, it was, it was, for me, it was scary, man.

It was like, okay, how far are they taking this? Are we going to have military tanks on the street? Is there going to be martial law like to what degree is this going to have, you know, are they going to take the lockdowns to?

So yeah, a lot of my time in 2020 and 2021, I actually, you know, we moved locations, we tried, you know, we went and thought out, sought out, freer land. And just because Miami, I was living in Miami at the time, South Beach, I mean, you know, all these high density areas, they're socialist traps, right?

And they're, they're, and they've all been captured by the DWEF to some degree. And they're going to run the agenda of this, you know, of this international global cabal, like it's just, they're part of that network.

And so we got out of there and yeah, a lot of it was just trying to figure out what was happening, what our next move is. And I'm still in that, you know, like, I think that there's going to be massive food shortages.

I think that we're now going to see the ripple effects of the disruptions, which we've caused to the economy, to society. I think we're going to start seeing that come about. And I'm still in the process of trying to get my stuff together, in order to navigate that, you know, like growing my own food and, and, you know,

having some land and all of that, you know, I just went to go see some properties. So it's still, I'm still in the process, you know, of getting situated. But at least now I have a little bit more time to pay attention to Bitcoin.

But yeah, I mean, it's, it's, we're in that time right now where there's going to be a lot of changes. Hmm. Yeah, it's a priority thing. I'm glad to hear you've moved out of the city. I think that's wise and growing your own food and being self sustainable is like

really important because I think, you know, it got to point, uh, 2020, 2021, where I was thinking, well, hang on, how much longer am I going to be able to actually go and buy food? Because I'm basically being treated as like a biohazard now.

How long am I going to be able to feed myself and my family? And so these are things that were going through my head to and, and many others. And you have to deal with what's in front of you.

You have to deal with, uh, you know, the things that are immediately threatening your livelihood. And, um, so that's the right thing to do. Yeah. A lot of the stuff that I put out on Twitter, a lot of like the advice I give or a lot of, these are just thoughts that I'm telling myself, right?

And I'm just putting, I'm putting them out there in, in, in the sense that I know people are probably thinking them and, uh, it's just, you know, further reiterating the point to them. And a lot of people find them helpful.

But yeah, a lot of it is just me talking to myself like, oh, go get fit. Uh, hey, go, go grow some, go grow some chickens and, and, you know, secure your food. Hey, go get a, well, you know, I throw these random tweets out there.

Sometimes sometimes I put it in a, in a thread. But the whole point is I'm just telling this to myself. And so I've been steadily working on doing so. And so yeah, I think that's, that's the best that we can do at this moment.

Completely agree. Yeah. I think that's key. I think a lot of people have been doing that over the last couple of years. And it's made them more resilient, which is a good thing, you know, and, and now it's kind of back to focusing on Bitcoin and, and making sure that that's resilient.

So I try and, uh, go through a few of these things that you have in your thread. Anyone who has issues with it, you can reach out to me and I'll tell you probably just a fuck off. I think that this was a really good thread.

I think that you made some valid points of maybe start with the mining side because that's a part that I see as, as a huge threat myself. So maybe you can kick it off and, and, and go through like where your thoughts are and, and where you see that, um, maybe there could be some issues and attack vectors.

Sure. So I had just gotten familiar with this. I didn't, you know, I, like I said, I wasn't paying attention to the Bitcoin space. But as I started listening to more podcasts and reading more articles, I started to realize, whoa, there's a huge concentration of mining in the hands of these large corporate

miners, a large concentration of hash power in these large corporate miners. And, you know, um, that got me thinking, well, what effect does this have on the network? What effect is this going to have on transactions? Um, and, you know, I started tweeting about it.

And as I was tweeting about it, I was getting more and more information thrown at me. Hey, check this out. Hey, check that out. And one of the things was a MIT project that they had, which actually has been in the work since 2016. Um, and it is to create a registry for, you know, blacklist and whitelist,

basically creating a registry for government-approved transactions. And I just see these large corporate miners as now extensions of the government. They're basically in partnership with the government.

People say that they'll pack up and they'll leave to more favorable jurisdictions. But the sheer size of these miners and the amount of capital expenditure that has gone into them, uh, made me realize that they ain't, they're not going anywhere.

That and they've already signaled they're very happy to play ball with regulations and the government. So I just saw that as a potential attack vector, um, to Bitcoin where, you know, they could, if they, if this kind of, I don't even know what to call it, but let's just say

this consortium of international, uh, government agencies as well as like national governments, whatever that conglomerate is, right? You can call it the WEF, but, you know, I don't know since, um, I don't know, I don't know exactly how that all works, but let's just say there is, I think, uh,

a concerted effort to try to limit Bitcoin's use as freedom money, as sound money. Um, you know, if they impose their regulations, which in the EU, in the US, it looks like they are going to do, right? And I don't think they want to kill Bitcoin. I think they just want to

control Bitcoin. Um, and they're going to do so with the regulations. Well, this, this my, uh, this, um, project that MIT was working on would be one way to do it. So I just see that as a potential back attack vector. I think it's something that we should keep an eye on. I know Shinobi,

uh, he tweeted it out today. He, he has a pin on his, uh, on his profile. So I think it's something to take serious. I don't think enough Bitcoiners are talking about it. I think they just shrug it off. Um, I was talking to, um, I forgot his name, or I don't just don't know how to say it. Uh,

Giacomo, something like that, the Italian dude, Jackie, Jackie Mazooka. Yeah, Jackie Mazooka. And his basic stance is that we're just going to have to deal with it. At least that's what I got from talking to him this morning on, on Twitter. Um, and that basically it would be minors creating a

soft work of Bitcoin. And, um, but I think that creates practical problems for Bitcoin's usage. And it's something that we should consider is something we should think about. And it's something that we should, you know, figure out how to mitigate against. And you know,

I was kind of complaining about it on Twitter and people were telling me that all I do is complain. So I, I, yeah, I, so I, and I understand that that's a valid point. Like, you just don't want to point to a problem. So I thought of ways in which we could mitigate

against this, right? Um, and one of them is moving away from large corporate scale minors. Um, and actually, you know, uh, promoting mining from home, also off grid mining. And to do that, you know, you, you have to work with local governments and start orange peeling local governments. Um,

you got to go to utility companies and, and oil and energy producers and letting them know the benefits of, you know, tapping, tapping their gas flares and putting a minor on it. Um, and all of this would, would further decentralized the network and get hash power, um, away from being

concentrated in these corporate minors in which a registry could actually create problems down the road. So that's where I came with that. Again, I'm not technical. I understand things from a conceptual level. I'm doing my best here. I did my best with the thread to put it all together,

uh, in some type of coherent fashion, which could really allow people to see, uh, the problem from a bird's eye view. But yeah, I mean, that's where I was going with that. Well, I think that's totally reasonable and your concerns are valid. And I think you're right. Like they know they can't

stop Bitcoin. They can't kill Bitcoin. So they want to control Bitcoin. And this is a very good way of doing it. You know, when you have massive companies, they are easy to co-opt. Um, it's just the way of the world. Like they're going to be able to incentivize these companies to play ball.

They're going to be able to threaten these companies. So they can play ball and they can't just pick up and move because they have massive amount of money invested in this. And so it's, it's been a big theme with this podcast for some time now is home mining and off grid mining and the importance

of it. I've spent a lot of time with a conno alchemist and Lily and others who, uh, who really have been pushing for this. And it's, uh, it's all possible. I mean, especially in, in the States, where anywhere that you've got lower energy costs, you can do some home mining. I mean,

it kind of kills two birds with one stone. Firstly, it helps decentralize the network. And secondly, you get something in no KYC sets. If it's done properly, which helps with this circular economy. So it, you know, really is a great thing to do if you can. There are valid

concerns from people in Europe because it's like, well, you know, for me, I'm paying like 35 P a kilowatt hour. It's absolutely disgusting. And so is it going to be profitable for me? No, it's not going to be profitable for me. But is it profitable under 15 cents in America? Yes,

it's very profitable. So, you know, if you can do something with a heat, it's even more profitable because you can heat your home with it or a greenhouse or a pool or whatever it is you decide to do.

There are loads of options out there and I've put some threads on my website to help people go through this. I think that what you're saying there is really important that people think about and not just hand wave it away and come out with phrases like, oh, you can't kill bitcoin. It's like,

no, probably not, but you can really cause issues for people and they're definitely going to try. Yeah, I think it's naive not to think that the, you know, the powers that be who which derive their power from the money printer, right? I think it was Rothschild that said, you know,

I don't really care who makes a nation. Give me control of the money supply and I don't care who makes their laws. I mean, paraphrasing here. But you know what I mean, right? It's like, it's the ultimate power. You can, you know, if you have the control of capital,

you can dictate so many things to society. You can dictate how a society operates and its functions and so they're not going to give that up easily. I think it's naive to think so. I think that they're going to comfort it and they're not going to just outright ban it. I think that

the US operates in a different way. It's a lot more insidious, right? And it's a lot more subversive and it's done this throughout almost every industry, right? It slowly integrates its tentacles in there and then it squeezes. I mean, and so I think the same thing is going to happen with

Bitcoin mining, especially on, well, yeah, especially on these large scale miners, corporate miners. And again, we saw, I don't know if it was marathon mining. I forgot which, which, yeah, it was marathon and they were signaling already how compliant they are to and how willing they are to bend the knee

and do whatever the government says. And I think that going forward, you're going to see these large scale mining operations just become in partnership with it. I think that tax subsidies, favorable treatment, all of this stuff, whatever the government can dole out to them as far as

creating an incentive to undermine the integrity of the Bitcoin network, I think they'll do. And I think that the miners will have no problem complying with that. And people can argue otherwise, I tried to counter those arguments in my thread. The idea that miners,

let's just say nodes would reject the blocks from these corporate miners has been said to me, like, hey, we'll just reject their blocks, whatever. And I'm just like, yeah, okay, you can, but you have to understand the rest of the network, which carries a lot of the economic gravity,

like Coinbase, all the exchanges, all the institutions, all the corporations that they're going to comply. And they have the bulk of the economic gravity. So if you fork off, or if you block their, their, if you don't accept their blocks, you're going to be on the minority side of a chain split. And

so it's like that economic gravity is going to force you to accept their blocks. And so I kind of see a possible future where, you know, those non-compliant transactions are going to have longer block times and higher fees to pay if a scenario like this plays out. That's because, you know, let's just say

that these large corporate miners are now have 60% of the hash, right? Let's just say that was the case. And they're mining only compliant transactions. Well, if you're, you know, if you're operating on a non-compliant way, you're going to have to wait for a miner, possibly in another jurisdiction,

to mine your block. And that's why I say, as one of another possible solution is what Samson Mao is doing, is going out there and actually getting governments or the utility companies in governments to start mining Bitcoin. And that will disperse hash rate around

the globe and make this less of an issue. Again, like, this is all probabilistic thinking. I don't have anything set in stone, but you know, I look at trends and the trend that we're on is towards centralization and mining and it's centralizing in North America. So, you know,

one way to avoid these problems is to actually get out there and start orange-pilling nation states from around the world that are not under the thumb of the WEF, right? That are not beholden to this like international cabal. So, yeah, that's, that's another solution I pose in,

which now this becomes less of an issue, right? Yeah, and I guess the thing is like, if we're just being hyperbolic, if these concerns are not valid and they don't play out, well, then great, you know, that that's brilliant. We didn't have the issue that we potentially could have had,

but talking about it is important because it is a possibility. And so, like you said, you know, we can't, we can't basically take the risk of not speaking about it when there is a chance that this can happen and it's definitely what they want. And so, yeah, getting other countries

involved and also just like people home mining or mining in their business or on a smaller scale is really important because that does decentralize things. It does stop them from being able to get control of this thing. And so, I don't know, I think the home mining thing is getting easier

and basically as long as you can get relatively reasonable power, I don't really see a reason not to, especially now that people have immersion setups and that's kind of getting easier because a big thing, you know, before was the noise and the heat. And it's like, okay, well, you can use the

heat to, to heat something. Well, it's like, well, maybe you don't want to do that if you're in Miami, like, obviously, if you're in the UK here, it's really cold and then okay, you can heat your house, but if it's already sweltering hot, you don't want to be pumping a load of heat in. So it's got to go

out or someone doesn't have the room. But then it's like, well, with the black box and some of these other options that you have now, it's, it's relatively easy to set up. These things are pretty reliable.

You're generally mining Bitcoin at a discount. You've got the no KYC sats. Like, that's all good. I don't see why people don't have this as an option. The only sort of barriers to entry really is the cost of these machines and getting hold of them. And so, you know, yeah, you can buy all the models

but they're not as efficient. But do people want to go and drop $10, $15,000 on one? Well, you know, some people do, some people don't. But I do think that is the best way for a circular economy. And also in the same way that, you know, the state likes to get its tentacles in and take control of

things. Well, it kind of works both ways because the more people we have using privacy technology, using coin joins and pay joins and everything else, the more people we have interacting between one another, the more people we have mining at home and having no KYC coins, the more it muddies

the waters. And it's probabilistic the way that they track people. It's not like they don't have a perfect way of doing it. So the more you muddy the waters, the more it gets to a point where they're just like, we don't fucking know what's going on anymore. Like, we can sort of guess but we can't

really prove anything. And then it gets to a point where it's like, you have Bitcoin is becoming more and more wealthy. It becoming more and more obvious that the state is incompetent. You have more and more mistrust in these organizations and governments. And at some point, the whole thing just crumbles

and then we go to that Bitcoin standard. But it's important that you have to fight as much as they're fighting and trying to infiltrate. We have to go up against them and do what we can. Yeah, so, you know, Bitcoin creates the incentives to do so, but we have to take action, right? Like,

that's just what it is. And I think by pointing out these potential possibilities, these potential scenarios that could play out, especially in regards to threats against the integrity of the network, it can go to motivate people. Like, I am now motivated to try to figure

out how to run a miner efficiently and profitably in order to, you know, further secure the network. And who knows, like, what this can inspire? I mean, you know, if you know what's at stake and you know, you have a idea of what can be done to mitigate that, you know, that can compel people to do

all types of things. And what I hope is that we figure out new ways to harness energy in order to run miners. And, you know, like, it creates this incentive, especially if you're oriented towards building a better world to actually go out there and figure out, you know, how to make

Bitcoin more robust in order that it doesn't get captured by regulators and governments. And again, I think it's one of those things where we live in this world where we have to contend with nation states. And as long as they exist, they pose a challenge to Bitcoin as sound money. But once,

you know, if we go down to sovereign individual route, and we think that technology is going to limit the power of nation states to the point where one day, you know, they shrink in size, or become, you know, obsolete completely, once we get there, then it's all good, right? But

right now we're in this transition period where, you know, power is being taken away from them through the monetary system, right? And going into Bitcoin, and they're going to have to, they're not going to like that. And that's one of the things I put in the thread as well. And I took that,

that clip from one of the not the clip, but a page from the sovereign individual, which actually speaks to this, right? Exactly to this. And says that, hey, like, you know, not everyone is going to take kindly to these transitions and into into liberating technology, like they're actually

going to have a problem with it. So you better get ready for like unpleasant times. And so it's just to make people aware of that as well. It's like, I think there's this notion that the state is just going to accept Bitcoin with open arms. Oh, yeah, you know, hey, look, look how,

look how beneficial it is for for all the plebs. I don't think that's how power operates. I think that, you know, especially in the apparatus, which has been created over, you know, the past 100 years of fiat, it is incentivized the most diabolical to reach the top. And now here we are. And so, you know,

how far are they going to go in order to maintain and hold on to their power is a question that I think that we should all be thinking about. And I take things out to their like logical conclusion, like all the way out there, you know, I guess, I get dark with it. Just because if you could point

me to other evidence that says that we're not going on that route, I'd be very open to hearing it. But like, we have past events to pull parallels from. And we can, you know, I think it's very clear the route we're going. And this whole demonization of people, like we're seeing the demonization of

people with, you know, the unvaxed and now with the Russians, like, it's very clear where the media and the people in power want to take this to, right? They want hatred amongst people. And, you know, I don't know, I don't think that leads to a good place. So, you know, you take it out to

that logical conclusion and you find a way to mitigate your attack vector to it as as well as you can, you know. And yeah, I think that Bitcoiners operated with that adversarial mindset instead of just, you know, wishful thinking. And the idea that governments are just going to, you know, adopt

this with with no, with no resistance, I think. Yeah, I don't think that's the way to go. Well, like I said at the beginning, I'm very, very happy that you are thinking this way. I'm really pleased that you put this thread together. I think it's probably a good place to wrap things

up. But I'd like to say to anyone who's listening, be inspired by this. Don't get annoyed that someone's thinking about potential issues, be inspired to do better and work on your setup and, you know, think about other potential flaws because we are at war. These people are not going to

stop. They do not want their power to be taken from them. And they're very close to total control. I mean, it was scary close to people not controlling their bodies, their thoughts, their movement, their money, anything anymore. That's exactly what they want. And Bitcoin is the wrench that's in

the system and fucking things up for them. And they do not want it to happen. So, you know, pay attention, don't get so emotional and try and keep your head on a swivel. But yeah, I just want to say again, thank you. And it's been a real pleasure speaking to you, mate. I really appreciate what

you've been doing. And if you want some help with the dojo setup or samurai or anything, I'm here. I will help. And yeah, it was great to chat. Yeah. Can I just say something closing this off? Like, yeah, sure. Yeah. So I consider myself like an amateur in this regard, right? In the Bitcoin

realm and in writing and in speaking, right? Like, this is not usually what I do, but I saw an issue and I didn't see anyone talking about it. So I kind of took it upon myself to do so. And I just wanted to point that out. Like, I think that you can do a lot of things if you take the initiative.

And if you see certain things that need to be talked about, I mean, we have so much capability now, we're all interconnected, we can reach people, you know, just instantly and be connected to anyone around the world. So I think there's a lot of synergy in that. And, you know, if you,

if you put in the effort and, you know, you put in the time, yeah, man, you can do big things. So I just wanted to get that message out there. And yeah, close off on that. Well, yeah, thanks again, mate. And where can people find you if they're not already following you? I'm just on on Twitter.

So Sovereign Mindset on Twitter, it's S-O-V-R-Y-N-M-I-N-D-S-E-T. So Sovereign Mindset, yeah, that's where I'm primarily located. Okay. And I'll share that in the show notes as well. All right, mate.

Well, thanks again. Stay on the line for a minute, just so we make sure we get the audio, but it's been an absolute pleasure. And I hope to chat again soon. All right. Appreciate it. Thank you.