Bitcoin meet-ups and collaboration are key

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.

Let's go!

Now, what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison. Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero. Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!

Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! All right, you ungovernable misfits. I'm your host, Max. Everybody knows that Bitcoin is useless, worthless, and doomed to fail. But what if everyone's wrong?

What if it's the system that is doomed to fail? Join me as I speak to some of the brightest people in the world. Join me as I speak to some of the most dangerous people in the world. Join me as I speak to some of the most dangerous people in the world.

Join me as I speak to some of the most dangerous people in the world. Join me as I speak to some of the most dangerous people in the world. Join me as I speak to some of the most dangerous people in the world.

Join me as I speak to some of the most dangerous people in the world. Join me as I speak to some of the most dangerous people in the world. It's just a different feeling when you get to meet people face to face.

If we're right and things do get very dark over the coming years, it's going to be increasingly important to have a group of friends and people that you can rely on. I've met some of my best friends through Bitcoin and meeting them in person really helps to build that friendship.

It's also the reason that the MeSH to Dell is so important to me and different Bitcoiners with different skill sets helping each other out. So I really love what Si is doing here, he's pushing to get more events, get more Bitcoiners together and more meetups in the UK.

We cover many other topics as well and I really enjoyed chatting to him. Before we start, I want to thank everyone who has been streaming Sats and sending messages on the podcasting 2.0 app.

I really do appreciate it. I'm really loving Fountain now that I can actually send some messages back as well. That's a really cool feature. I'd also like to thank everyone who has been giving feedback, rating the show and helping it in the rankings.

If you haven't checked out the website yet, go to ungovernablemisfits.com for all the rest of the content, articles, video, art, prints and much more. I'd also like to thank my sponsors. Let's start with foundation devices.

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If you decide straight away to buy one, then you can use the code bit by bit and you will get $10 off or if you're not 100% sure and you have some questions and you just want to run them past me or the team you can do, my DMs are always open and you can always contact the team as well.

Go to foundation devices.com and start taking your security seriously today. And finally, we have fast bitcoins. Fast bitcoins are an exchange based in the Isle of Man. They have a really amazing team.

Danny Brewster is leading that team. He's been on this show a couple of times and he is a real die-hard proper Bitcoiner. Now, everyone knows on this show that I try and push people away from KYC services, so why the fuck have I got one as a sponsor?

Well, I have these guys as a sponsor because I know that the majority of people are going to use exchanges, especially when we have times like this and people want to be stacking a dip and stacking hard.

I'll always advise that you go without KYC, but if you are going to do it, I want people to use the best team available and I really believe these guys are. They take security very seriously, they push to get you to get your SATs off exchange.

They do not want to custody your SATs. Fast bitcoins was also the first exchange in the world to integrate lightning and they are always a few steps ahead of the rest. Again, if you want to contact me or the team, you want to talk about trade-offs, you can do my DM's are open and I will always be open and honest.

I really hope you enjoy the show, check out FastBitcoins.com, also consider after listening to this, contacting Huddle Solo or starting your own meet-up or event. Enjoy. Sorry, can you hear me?

I can. Can you hear me? Yeah, I'm so sorry. I've fucking wasted half an hour of your life there, apologies. I tend to have a lot of these problems with technology and for some reason today, nothing wanted to connect to the internet at all, so we've rebooted everything about 10 times

over and turned it off and turned it on again and now we're okay, I think. Yeah, okay. Good. Good stuff. Maybe time to buy any computer. I think so. Find some pressure SATs. I know this is the problem, isn't it though?

You become very tight once you get involved in Bitcoin. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Can you hear me okay? Is it coming through? You're coming through, yeah. Loud and clear. Okay, perfect. Good stuff.

Massive pleasure to have you on the show. Thanks for coming on. I've been having a look through what you've been doing and I really think it's one of the most important things that we can do, especially at this stage with Bitcoin.

I think that these meetups and getting to know people face to face, shaking hands and building real relationships is incredibly important with all the crazy bullshit we're probably going to be facing, so I was really pleased to see that you're doing it and get to know you a little bit.

Yeah, well, thanks for having me on. It's been something that has sort of not come out of nowhere, but I was sort of in obscurity I suppose. Just a few months ago, I was just living the Bitcoin, Twitter kind of life and just being an anonymous pleb, I guess, but it was, I suppose what really just started to make me

think maybe I should get a bit more involved in in the community was going up to the the Rail Bedford Games, Peter McCormack's going up there to watch the games and I mean, it just so happened that, I mean, that's not too far from where I work, so I've actually

gone out because I've worked some Saturdays and it's just 10 minutes up the road really, so I've gone up to watch the games, I met Peter a couple of times and had a chat with him and then I think, and there was Connor Ochus who works for Spiral, I was chatting

with him one day and he sort of introduced himself to these people that, I mean, he works for Spiral and Peter's obviously got a huge podcast and I'm sort of trying to tell them who I am and then I'm thinking, well, who am I, I'm not doing anything for

the community, not doing anything for the space, I'm just, you know, I'm just here stacking stats and reading Bitcoin Twitter and, you know, learning as much as I can about Bitcoin but I wasn't really contributing to the community, you know, I think a few things kind of came

together I suppose that watching the Miami 2022 conference in the US, I can just see that there's such a bigger community there with a meet-ups and everything, just, you know, I think they've got like 55 meet-ups or something, I was looking at the numbers,

I think on meetup.com or something, website, but there's, you know, there's like 53 meet-ups there and they get big numbers, they get like 30 odd people, I think, to their meet-ups and, you know, looking around trying to find meet-ups nearest, there wasn't really that

many but certainly ones that weren't sort of shit-coining as well, there was a few that were shit-coining but I thought I could probably, well, I thought, you know, I should probably start one myself and then I sort of started thinking a bit bigger than that but, yeah,

I mean, I could, I don't know where you want to go back to and I would say like, first of all, it's weird how it pulls you in, isn't it? Yeah. From the way that you just said that, it's like I could feel you, you obviously felt, ah, I'm not doing enough for Bitcoin and that's a really weird feeling, it's one that I've

had, it's one that I think most people who start to get involved and do something here is like, why am I feeling that way? It's weird when you start to boil it down and you think, well, you know, not putting words in your mouth but it's pretty fucking important what Bitcoiners are trying to do.

Yeah. So if it fails, we're fucked. So what do we do? And if you're not a techie, I mean, you can see I'm not a techie, it's taken half an hour to fucking turn the internet on, so, you know, if you're not a techie, it's a bit difficult to find your place but, yeah, what was it that made you just think, right, I'm

going to spend the time because it's, you know, it's a lot to be dealing with on top of a job and everything else in life, yeah, and that's a big, I mean, that's a big problem for me at the moment.

It's sort of like I've accidentally started another full-time job before I've quit the last one, so it's really, it's really busy at the moment, I'm so over my fiat job I'm doing is just an absolutely fucking nightmare.

So it's, and I do long hours and, but I do odd, I like work two days and then I've got two days off and stuff, so it, what that does is it's allowed me to sort of have some time to go back to these shops and speak to some of the merchants and stuff, but it's, but yeah,

it's a lot of work at the moment, I'm so desperate to try and find a Bitcoin job, yeah, but maybe this will lead to that, but it's difficult, yeah, trying to fit everything in, family life and everything as well, so I'll get there though, yeah, it's difficult to balance it.

I think like the more time you do it, the more you balance it, or just end up going full on into Bitcoin and working in Bitcoin and I think that draw is kind of impossible to get away from because, you know, if you really believe in it and then you think, well, what's

the most important thing I can do with my time, it's always going to drag you back to that, like every time I go and do fiat work, I'm like, fuck, this is pointless and boring, I hate it, you know, it's just like it's so different and then you start working with

Bitcoiners and things just seem to flow so much better, it's so much more interesting and just a completely, totally different world. Yeah, it is, I mean, just, I hadn't really met that many, well, I hadn't met any Bitcoiners really at all until I went up to start watching the Bedford Games.

The only Bitcoiners I'd ever met, I suppose, was ones I'd created myself by sort of orange peeling friends and family and, you know, they're earlier, a lot of them really in the journey, so they hadn't got to that sort of sound money phase and they're still messing around

and binance and as much as I tried to tell them, you know, they're wasting their time and they've just got a DCA and, you know, all that usual stuff, you know, they don't listen, I kind of work with a lot of guys that are in their sort of late 20s, early 30s

and they're all just on about, you know, trading in and out of this Bitcoin and that shit kind of, yeah, I'd tell them and tell them and tell them, but you've kind of got to be in that full cycle before you sort of get burnt enough to realize.

One of them, actually, there's one, there's one that is really got it quite quickly, but he's still got some some shit, that's well, you know, XRP or something, so, yeah, so, but they'll come around in the end and the place I've been working out at the moment,

I've been there sort of, I started there in January, 2018, so it was just after that, that bull run had started and I was on a high and I was telling everybody, you know, get into Bitcoin, get into Bitcoin and one of the guys particularly bought, he bought, he was like, okay, right, I don't get in, he bought 400 pounds worth of Bitcoin,

of course, right at the peak and then spent the rest of 2018 and 19 telling me, you fucking idiot, you know, am I growing the quids now worth, I can, you know, 120 quid or something? And so, he was reminding me about the whole time and tell, until we got to, you know,

the price started to move again, but it's difficult to, it's just time, it's time in the market, isn't it? So, exactly, yeah, and I mean, I've been in since 2013, was sort of when I first got in, so it, I've been through a few cycles now and managed to accumulate enough knowledge,

I suppose, to know this. And what was it that made you fall down the rabbit hole, like, were you already a gold bug or a libertarian? No, yeah, I know, yeah, I wish, I wish I'd have been a libertarian at least at that time.

I mean, I am now that most definitely I've gone through all that sort of learning curve, but I just, I was really into the tech side of things and I'm not super techy myself, but I was always really into kind of internet tech and, you know, I was, I suppose kind of,

but I jumped on to things early, like podcasting, for instance, I did a podcast with my brother and a mate when in about 2006, it was, it was really crap, oh, cast, I won't tell you where it was going, because people will find it and go, oh my goodness, it was, we just did like movie news and TV show news

and tech news and stuff. And so I, so I kind of got into that early and then I got it, I mean, Twitter came along and I could see like the potential behind Twitter that, you know, this, anybody could get a message out into the world, which is kind of, we kind of take that for granted now, but it's kind of

revolutionary when it came along. And podcasting was kind of in the same way as well that I could see that great potential for, for disrupting the legacy kind of media, you know, where anybody could have a voice, I really liked that, the idea of, of all that. So I, I, I, I, soon as I was on, I

think the, well, the first thing that sort of the first time I really heard about Bitcoin that I remember was, I sort of tweaked by a guy called Kevin Rose. Kevin Rose. I know the name, but it was the founder of dig.com, dig was kind of like a precursor to Reddit, I suppose, there was, okay,

where you know, people would post stories and you could vote them or downvote them. And he did a sort of early video podcast called Dig Nation, where they, him and a guy called Alex Allbrecht, they would talk about the current news that, you know, stuff that was voted up to the top. And I was following

him on Twitter, Kevin Rose, and he tweeted something about, I'm selling some of my Bitcoin, because like it's $700 or something. And, and, and I thought, what the hell is Bitcoin? And just read through the comments and people saying, why are you selling? And he was saying, well, look how, you know,

it's come up to $700. I'm selling. So I just started looking into it from there. And because I was into a podcast in the first thing I thought I'd do well, I find a podcast about Bitcoin. And I, and I found what was it called? Let's talk Bitcoin. And Andre, Andrea, Antonopoulos was one of the

three hosts on that. And so I just went down the rabbit hole of, of Bitcoin, like really got into it quite in depthly. But when like, it was right, the tail end of 2013. And it peaked then at about 1200, I think, didn't it? So I was, I bought in a bit, you know, I didn't buy a huge amount. I just

bought a little bit. And then it started to, well, Mt. Gox happened. And it went, it just started to, to go down. And so I, so I, I held onto it. And we moved to Ireland, my wife's from Ireland. And we decided to move to Ireland for a couple of years. And I just took my eye off the ball, really, I

didn't really, it's my biggest regret, I suppose I didn't, I didn't carry on. I thought, you know, it's one of those, my wife probably thought as well, it's one of those fans that he was into. And, you know, it's, it's, it's going to disappear. And I didn't look too much into it until we moved

back to England 2016. And I, and I just started looking into it more, we were trying to buy a house at the time. And we were saving up money for a, for a house deposit. And so I put, I put, well, in the end, after persuaded my wife, I put some other money from my house deposit in.

And anyway, long, yeah, so we made a bit of money from, from doing that. And, and then I had to sell quite a bit because we, we wanted to get the house. And then 2018, I was pissed off that I'd sold so much. And I just from that point on, because that was, yeah, so 2019, I was, you know,

I didn't have a lot left. And I thought, right, I'm really going to learn about this now. I've got the house houses sorted. And, and so I just started DCA and from that point on. And because of the job that I do, I get a, you know, I get a chance to sit around on my house a lot of the time, just

staring at the computer, waiting for them to be problems to solve. And so I just read, you know, everything like Nixaba is shelling out and the bullish case for Bitcoin and just, you know, discovered the real true signal of it all, you know, to get the those original guys that were really

talking about sound money. And, and I started listening to some other podcasts as well, like Stefan Lavera's podcast. And at the beginning of his podcast, he's, he, I don't know if he says it still, but he said, he says it's the Bitcoin podcast. Oh, it is podcasts about Bitcoin and

Austrian economics. I thought, what the hell's Austrian economics had never heard of it. So there's another rabbit hole. So I went down that and that sort of led to the libertarian side of things and anarchism and all that stuff. So it was, I've spent, you know, the last four, well,

since 2018, really just deep in seeped in all that sort of stuff. And just really, you know, lapped it up. It's all I can think about now. That's a lot of us saying. Once it gets you, it really gets you. I don't think you can ever step away from it. It reveals too much about the

world you believed you understood for you to go back. Certainly for me, I was like, fuck, I thought I was smart. I was an idiot. How did I fall for all this fiat stuff? How did I fall for? Why didn't I ask these questions? You know, and once you see just a little bit, you want to ask more questions.

And the more you ask, the more lies you see. And it's like, well, there's one thing that is truth. And that's Bitcoin. And then you meet all the people who are also into it, who tend to be pretty libertarian minded and generally pretty smart and nice people, as far as I've ever met.

It's very addictive. It's hard to step away, but I'd be interested if you had a similar experience to me and that everyone around you thought you were a fucking lunatic. Like, did you... Sorry, I lost you there for a minute. You've come back now. What was that? Oh, fucking hell.

Where did you lose me? Like 20 seconds ago. Yeah, so no, I was just wondering, like, when you started to really fall down the rabbit hole properly in 2018 and start really understanding what this thing is about, how receptive were the people around you? Were they like, mate, you're a fucking lunatic, shut up, stop talking about this,

or was anyone like family or friends sort of going, okay, that's interesting. What was that experience like? Because for me, that's the reason I started this podcast, because I fell totally alone. No one wanted to talk to me about it. I just felt like I'm just talking out people,

and I know they just want me to shut the fuck up, and they just don't care. But all I wanted to do, because I was so excited, I was just like, fuck, I need to speak to more people. And that's why I was like, well, if I start a podcast, I get to speak to people who are also interested in this,

and then I can learn along the way, and that's going to be exciting. But I think without that, I don't mean so fucking lonely. Did you have a similar experience? Well, I suppose two sides of it, because of the kinds of people that I get to work with, like I said, that they're into, and I've worked at lots of different places

since I've been into Bitcoin, and with those 20 sort of 30-year-olds, there's a surprising amount of them that are into trading, and that sort of side of it. So I could talk to them about that kind of stuff. But once I really start getting into hard money, and Austrian economics, and that

kind of stuff, then they're not interested. It's going over their head. But I did talk to my wife a lot about it, and although initially she sort of thought I was bonkers, I think, and that it was a fad that was passing. But she's been brilliant that I've been over to, I've talked to her so much

about it all. My brother too is pretty good. He's got a pizza business, except in Bitcoin, but he doesn't read books and stuff like that. He kind of just gets it through me, but he's kind

of always been into alternate theories for things, I suppose, as well. So he's pretty good at that, but my wife, especially recently, she has totally been orange-pilled. She's gone surprisingly,

for me, she's just full of the pill hole. I love that. Yeah. And I do other people that I've spoke to recently. Even quite prominent Bitcoiners are here on podcast sometimes. They say, my wife just thinks I'm mad. So I'm pretty lucky in that way that she got it. She came into it

from a different sort of angle, I think, that she's always into food and nutrition. And I remember we would watch those Netflix sort of documentaries about, I suppose, that sort of trend of things that started with like supersize me. And there'd be ones where you'd go into these chicken places,

where they're just treating these chickens terribly and show you really what goes on with our food and everything. And I suppose when I when I listened to, when I read the Bitcoin standard and Safedyn talks about the fiat food and all that kind of stuff, it started to then when we were

talking about the food stuff, I would be saying that everything comes back to the money. You know, it's the money that's kind of driving this shit food that we're eating now. And so she started looking into that side of things. And that that kind of brought her in. And and the sort of,

you know, the like the localization of she's always, she comes from, she's from Ireland, and she's from a kind of a smallish community where where everybody kind of pitches in and helps out.

Everybody knows everybody, which is good and bad, but it's kind of something that she, all those sort of elements to like libertarianism, I suppose, where, you know, keep bringing things back down to a local community sort of level. She really, she really loved that side of things.

And so she's, I mean, she's on Bitcoin Twitter now. She's, you know, she's, she's telling me stuff that I was like, have you seen this today? Have you seen that tweet? And she's, she's been listening to your podcasting, bless her. That's so cool. I love to hear that because it's so important,

like, you know, when you're in a relationship with someone, you're sharing your life with them, you know, you want them to be interested or at least aligned with the way you're thinking. And I think it'd be very difficult to have a relationship with someone who was just like

fully in fiat land. Yeah, didn't care about the stuff that we're talking about. And it's interesting. She's coming from a like a diet side because that's such a massive theme that runs, you know, with Bitcoin or certain Twitter now, it's like, yeah, you know, once you find this perfect money,

you know, you want to do everything that you can to make sure that you live in the best way possible so that you live longer and happier. And you want to find out, well, I don't want to eat a load of bullshit. And you also, there's this theme which is going, which is like, go and

shake your farmer's hand. Yeah, make sure that you understand the source of your food and have that connection. It's really, it's really changed the way I've thought about food and these kind of interactions, because it's just nicer, like, you know, going, knowing, okay, this is where this

animal was raised, I know it's grass fed, I know the farmer, I know these, this is where I get my ex and I don't know, it kind of feels like it's going back to a time that was, I don't want to say better, necessarily, but maybe a little bit more simple and personal and human, I think, is maybe

the word decentralized, you know, and it's, yeah, I mean, that probably is better. And if you know where your food's coming from, you know, you can meet your local farmer and it's much, it's the way it should be, really, I think, isn't it? These big companies now that, you know, Tesco's come into

a town and, you know, all the little shops have closed down and I mean, that's happened, you know, in the last, what, 15, 20 years and we've kind of almost forgotten already that what it was like to have a town center and, you know, the high street where you could go to your butcher and

your baker and stuff, it was definitely better in those days, you know, and we can bring that back. Well, yeah, and so let's get into that a little bit because that's really what I think you are pushing for here, you know, helping build this circular economy and this human interaction and

making things a bit more decentralized and not having to rely on these massive corporations that we know are fucking us. I think it's just an incredible thing to be doing here in the UK because, like you said, yeah, there are a few meetups, self-banked, a good friend of mine runs,

the one in Bristol, which is great and I've been to a couple in London, but there's, you know, there's not so many, we're not quite there like America is, so what's it been like setting this up and what's the goal, I guess, is like where are you trying to take this?

I think what sort of brought it together for me, the two sort of elements that came together, a little bit of a light bulb moment, I suppose, I was listening to Twitter Spaces and Brian Harrington, I love Brian Harrington's fucking awesome. Yeah, I mean, he's, I think he's very much involved

in the meetup scene over there and he was talking about the idea that if you want to, if you want to sort of onboard your local businesses and stuff, I mean, it can work hand in hand with the meetups, so if you, if you grow your local meetup and, you know, you've got 30 odd members,

keen Bitcoiners, and with that, you can use that as a tool then to then go to speak to your local butcher and say, like, if you accept Bitcoin, I've got these 30 guys that are all going to come to your store and buy their meat from you, and it's no extra cost to you, you know, you can,

I've guided you through it and show you how to do it, and then they're going to get this extra business, your meetup groups then got a butcher's that they can go to, and they want to be able to spend their stats, I mean, they don't want to spend their stats, but they want to spend

them and replace them, and so these two things can go hand in hand, and so listening to him saying that, because I've always kind of been on and off sort of thinking I really should get out there, and I mean, I talked to everybody about Bitcoin that, you know, I'm bored here of everybody that

will listen, but, but I thought this can combine the two things together, I can, I can build up this a meetup group, and then just start using that as leverage to kind of get the local merchants on board. So I did that with North Hampshire Bitcoin network was the one that I started,

and then sort of from that, I thought, well, I should probably get this listed somewhere online to get the word out about it, but there didn't really seem to be certainly not a Bitcoin, only one that I could find that was just dedicated to the UK, so I thought, well, I'll start the

Bitcoin events UK website was the idea sort of behind that, and that if I asked on Twitter, you know, where are all the other meetups, and sort of use it as a central hub and sort of get them all together, so people can, you know, if you want to find your local meetup, go on to the

Bitcoin events.uk website and find your local meetup, and if there isn't one, near to you, then I sort of, you know, started encouraging people to, to start one themselves, because there's lots of gaps around the country where there isn't one, definitely.

Yeah, so I mean, that was, that was kind of the original sort of spark of the idea, I suppose, and that was back in sort of early April, I think, when I sort of really started going for it, and yeah, I mean, it seemed really like it, it took off, I was at work, I tweeted something out,

and I put my phone in my pocket, and I was going around, and my phone was just going mentally in my pocket as all these people following the Bitcoin events group, or the Twitter, and so it's been good so far. It's a different experience, isn't it? Just meeting Bitcoin as

in person over a beer or a coffee and just chatting and shooting the shit, it's, I do it very rarely and very selectively, just because privacy matters to me, it's very difficult to sort of balance it, I guess. Yeah, that was a big worry for me, but I just sort of, in the end, I just decided, okay,

I've got to lift a little bit of this, if someone's got to do it, and so I thought, well, I'll just have to peel back the anonymity a little bit and sort of go for it. Some of the guys that I've met more recently that have got into Bitcoin more recently, they just don't care, they're just like,

you know, this is my name, this is my face, and you know, but I think maybe because I've come from the bit of the older school where everybody kind of seemed to be much more anonymous, not as much more cautious, I still try to be cautious now, but I don't know. So balance. You've

got to get the balance right. It's so rewarding that feeling of meeting people, it's like you're back home, you know. I remember, I don't know if you've seen, you probably would have seen it, but the Bitcoin camping, the dragon runs, being July. Yes, the Bitcoin beach retreat.

Yes, in Wales, I went to that last year, and it was like, oh, you're going this year, or? No, last year I was in Ireland, and I think, what are we doing this year? I don't know, we went in Ireland last year, this year we were in Ireland, we're going to a wedding.

Then last year we had something else on, and we couldn't go. So, yeah, I'm going to the Bitcoin adventure, you know, down the Avon Valley one, Bristol Eway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, down there, that's second of July, I think. Yeah, but yeah, so you went to that, how was it good?

Well, it was, it was just like, you know, I said, it's like being home, it was right in the depth of all the COVID fucking night magic that was going on, and it was a time where, I'd said to my misses, I was like, look, we might have to leave the country here, like, I think things are going

to get to the stage where we're not welcome here anymore, and we were having the same conversation. And it was dark, I mean, you know, if you remember back, it was pretty fucking scary, because it's like, oh, yeah, well, I've got this unceasable money, it's like, well, great,

but it's not very much good if you're in prison or concentration camp, or if you can't travel, you're not allowed in the supermarket or anything else. And so it was pretty dark, and I was, I was feeling quite down, and yeah, not so confident about the future. And then I went down to Wales,

and there was about 30 people there, and a couple of them, I knew, but most of them, I didn't. And it was just fucking amazing. We just sat around a campfire, we put some stakes on the bar, a queue, everyone was really open, really honest, just having a good time. And everyone became good

friends, and still are. And, you know, we still chat, and it's, you know, it's one of those things where you were like, Oh, these are my people. These are like freedom loving, genuine people.

And it's not something I'd experienced for a long time. And so I was so worried about doxing myself going into it. But the trade off there, I was like, I wouldn't change that for the world. It was fucking amazing. Yeah, no, I can totally agree with that. The meters that we've had so

far, it's just, you've got something, I suppose you've just got something so core to what you're, what you're thinking about all the time in common with somebody. And so there's just never a, a lack of what you're going to talk about. You know, there's, yeah, it covers so many topics.

There's, there's just never ending. So, and you know that you're all pretty much on the same page with, with my stuff. So it's, it's, it's been amazing for me too. I mean, just even that, like I give you one example, just the other day, I mean, I've been trying to find some of these

shops that were, were near to us. There was an, there was an old map of merchants that accepted Bitcoin, but we weren't really sure whether some of them really still did accept Bitcoin. And, and so there's one of them that's pretty close to me and a bookshop. And I, so I thought

I'd drive over to the bookshop. Went into the bookshop is kind of a, a little, a little village kind of bookshop. There's no visual thing on the outside to say that they accept Bitcoin or anything.

I went in and there's nobody in the show. It's like old books and stuff. And there's nobody in the shop. And, and, and it's, I heard these feet coming down the stairs and this guy came in and, and I said, I, and, and I said, I've heard a rumor that you accept Bitcoin and his eyes lit up straight

away. He's like, yes, we do. Nobody's ever come in wanting to spend any Bitcoin. And I said, well, it's going to change today. So, I, so I sort of explained to him what, what I was doing and we had a long conversation in there, but it's just straight away, you know, within, you know, 60 seconds,

I can tell, I'm going to really get on with this guy, you know, he was, I mean, yeah, we took for ages. He got in in 2012 and, and watching Max Kaiser YouTube or something. But, but yeah, it was, it was great connection straight away, you know, and that's what you find, I think,

every time every time I've met somebody and I've been to some of the other, I've been to Bitcoin Surrey's meetup and Bitshot, the Berkshire Bitcoiners as well. I'm sort of working with those two guys, we kind of, and where do they do that? Berkshire Bitcoiners, they were the first one that they

had was at a place called the Cricketers. It was a pub called the Cricketers. And there was a few, how many came? There's about 12, I think of us, that were there. There was, you know, different Bitcoiners, one guy is really into mining. So he was chatting about mining. There was,

oh, Jason Dean, have you heard of Jason Dean? He works for, what's the company? It is the Bitcoin pioneers group. I don't think I have to be honest, I may have. Oh, Luna, Luna, the exchange, not,

okay, not the state. Yeah, not Luna. Yeah, on unstable grain. Yeah, Luna, he works for them. He's, I think he's kind of like the UK agent, but yeah, he's there in a few others. And that was, yeah, it's great. There's never a, never a dull moment. A bit good meter, that's for sure.

Yeah, and just that knowledge that these people are so on the same page, and it's something that's so rare. So it's like, you know, generally, I mean, I've not yet met a Bitcoiner and not got on with them. It's just never happened. No, but I mean, I'm sure it will do at some point,

but you know, it's very rare. Whereas in normy world, it's very, very rare for me to actually like someone. It's very rare for me to feel like, you know what, like I'm really aligned with this person. I feel that we're on the same page. I feel that when they're talking about things,

I don't feel like I want to vomit or I feel like a fucking retard. You know, that's quite a rare thing. And so it's, it's just so refreshing. It's like, you don't even have to be talking about anything to them. I mean, most of the time when I'm talking to Bitcoiners now, we're not really

talking about Bitcoin. You know, a lot of the time, it's like, I want to buy this bit of land, and I want to do regenerative agriculture. And, you know, I want to raise a good family. I want to make sure that, you know, my kids learn the right way and that they're not indoctrinated by

their state and all this kind of stuff. And it's like, I don't know, it's just, I think it is a very addictive. And it's, it's so nice seeing these friendships blossom and the little businesses that spin off them and people helping each other. And yeah, it's just, it's really lovely to see.

Yeah, no, it is, it is totally. So yeah, I mean, we, we, I mean, that's one of the things that, that has spin off from, from me, so besides from the Bitcoin events, UK stuff, with a couple of the guys that I've met initially through the, the Real Bedford games, the guy Chris that runs

Bitcoin, Surrey, and James runs Berkshire Bitcoiners. And so we've, we've, we've starting a business now, which is going to be onboarding merchants. I mean, that's the, that's the mission of it at the moment.

So we'd, yeah, we'd, we'd just kind of, it's very early days with it at the moment. I mean, the website's not even really built properly yet, but we're putting together some packages, I suppose, of different options for the merchants, because, you know, different, different businesses are going

to need different options. You know, if you're a mobile headdresser, you don't need a point of sale terminal, you just need to know how to use like wallets, a Toshi or a moon wallet or something.

But then, you know, other ones need more complicated stuff, you know, you know, you know, and so we've got a range of, of different things. I really love what Ben Arc is doing with his, and then POS devices, I've built a few of those now, and taken those to the meetups and shown those off.

I've got a few more on order at the moment. I mean, they're really cool, lovely little simple ones. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, if you take those to some of the merchants that I've been to, I mean, there's a, there's a guy near, near to me that's selling burgers in a van. And I showed him one

of the LNPOS machines. And, and he absolutely loved it. Oh, and he was once one of those. And I said, well, I haven't got a spell on that. But he keeps texting me now saying, when are you going to get nothing? So I just put him on moon wallet. And he's, and I went back and bought my

lunch. And my wife came out, came over and we, we bought our lunch and we finished our lunch and went back over to him. And he said, he said, you know, I've been thinking, I'm not going to sell this Bitcoin. I'm just going to keep it. And I said, you're, you've been, yes, you're, that's

perfect. There's no more education needed. Just, just keep it, just hold on to it. And so, I've promised him that we're going to, we're going to do our next meetup there. He sells beer, actually, as well. So he's a burger bat fan that sells beer. Perfect. We're going to get, go to the next meetup.

Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, it's, it's nice as well, because once they start to understand, well, the fees are lower than Visa and MasterCard and everything else. And it's quick and it's easy.

And over time, this goes up and my pound buys me less. So you start to think, you know, even if they do it for six months or a year or two years, it will come a point where they just go, fuck, what am I doing with these pounds? Like, what am I actually doing here? This is crazy.

I've lost you again. Oh, you're back. Yeah, sorry. It's this fucking connection. It drives me absolutely mad. But yeah, that does sound awesome. And all these tools really help. I'd be interested to hear how this business goes and, and how the onboarding process goes, because it can be a tough one to crack.

I've lost you again. Yeah. Oh, fucking hell. Tell me when you've got me. Can you hear me now? Yeah. I don't know if it's me. Is it? Could it be me? Could it be me as your connection?

Um, I can hear you. I'm showing us full signal, but it's been really fucking irritating today. So it could be lying to me. Could, um, I could tell my, I don't know, probably watching a movie downstairs and maybe, um, let's try again. And, and then if there's a problem, maybe try that.

I've turned everything else off. Let's see. But, um, no, like say, I, I love to see that you guys are working together and pushing it forward. It's cool. And it sounds like it would be fun as well, because you're working with like-minded people. Oh, it really is. I mean,

we've been talking about that. Yeah. I mean, it's so, it really is. And going back to sort of wanting to quit the, quit the fiat job. I mean, I've never been so desperate to quit my job because I've got this, like I said, I've sort of started this other full-time job on the side and it's so much fun.

And it's so what I want to do with my time. But then, you know, I still have to turn up to this shitty job for the rest of the time. That sucks 50% of my time away. And the whole time I'm there, I'm thinking I really should be updating the website. I really should be messaging this

go back and saying this and that. And, you know, that's what I want to be doing. So it's, you know, I'll get there. It's just, it's always the same, I suppose, if you're transitioning from one job to another, but, you know, the job I really love to do here is not bringing any money in yet. But,

but I'm not, you know, I'm not necessarily doing it for the money. It's, I'd be doing it anyway. If the Bitcoin price went the same, went in the right direction, then maybe I could, yeah, it was just to be all right. I wouldn't have to worry. Yeah. It's gone in the wrong

direction. But yeah, no, it's, it's all good. So we're building up these different options for the, the different merchants and, and I was just going to say, one of, one of the things I did get some pushback on when I was going round to the different merchants, especially ones that hadn't really

ever thought, or they'd heard of Bitcoin, I suppose, but they hadn't really thought about it. I mean, one guy said to me, what do I want Bitcoin for? And I thought, well, that's, that's, that's a long, that's going to take a while. But if he, and he sort of first thing was, well, I've heard that

it's volatile. So what happens if I, you know, I make, I make 60 pounds worth of Bitcoin today, and then by the end of the week, it's worth 30. And what, what do I do? So at the time, I was sort of saying, well, you know, you'd have to get an exchange account and, you know,

sell it straight away if that, if that's what you want to do. And it starts to get complicated then for them. And then like, oh, yeah, okay, this sounds too complicated for me. But with an option like coin corners, new bulk cards, and, and they're using their point of sale terminals as

well. That is an option, a little bit like Jack mourners is doing with strike that, you know, it's transferring over the Bitcoin network, but then in the merchants account, it can change back to fiat straight away. So that, that, that little option there is, is now something that, that, so

eliminates that, that problem for some people. So I think we might sort of offer that to some people that that it seems right for. Definitely. Yeah. And it opens that door, like, even if they start with that, and they say, well, what do I want Bitcoin for? I'm really worried about the

volatility. Because what if it goes from 40 pounds to 20 pounds? It's like, yeah, well, also what if it goes from 40 pounds to 400 pounds? Yeah, exactly. Once they see that, I think, you know, the foot's in the door, it's changing back to dirty slave notes every day, and they're getting

their fear, and that's fine. But there probably will come a point where they change their thinking. And the other thing is, I was going to say, when I'm talking to people about this kind of stuff, I'll normally say, if you are accepting Bitcoin, don't expect that every person who comes to your

store is going to want to pay Bitcoin. You're going to get more than every sort of couple of months, probably, you know, it'll be my next week. Exactly. And so then it's like, well, okay, think of it, then as a savings account, where maybe half a percent or one percent of your sales

come in Bitcoin. And okay, if that's volatile, is that going to cause you a massive amount of issues? Some it might, but like a lot of people maybe could reconsider and say, well, it probably wouldn't be too bad if I was keeping that sort of amount in Bitcoin,

and then it's not actually going to cause issues to the cash flow or anything like that. So, yeah, but the main thing is just getting foot through the door and getting people to start thinking about it. Yeah, it's weird that a lot of them do have that idea that what I'm saying to

them means that they're going to suddenly have a stampede of people coming through the door wanting to spend Bitcoin. And they're like, oh, even my brother had that problem, you know, he's not very techy and trying to get him to sort of set him up with his on his phone and everything. He's like,

well, I don't know, because he's making these pieces and kind of doing it by himself. And he's taking cash and he's making the pizzas. And he's got to remember this order. And he's like, no, I just, it's going to be too complicated. So I set him up with the LN URL QR codes, you know,

and he's got stuck in his window. So it doesn't even have to think about it. They just scan the barcode. But he, and I said the same thing to him. It's not like you're going to get every other person coming to want to spend Bitcoin. It's just, you know, it's just that we'll stick you on the map

that on the website. And, you know, I've mentioned it to a few people already and they're like, oh, yeah, I'm going to go down by the beach in Cornwall. It's a great spot. And so they'll, you know, it's, it's still good. It's, he's not going to get a load to people. But hopefully, eventually,

start eventually, start building it up to that point. And what's your thoughts on this Bitcoin circular economy? Because there seems to be sort of two schools of thought, you know, mainly is that some people are like never selling Bitcoin. No point

not doing it is the best store of value. I'd be stupid to spend it. And then you've got the other school of thought, which is, well, no, we, you know, it would be very useful to have this circular economy on board small people. It stops KYC being such a problem. Because if it's changing hands

constantly, you peer to peer, that's going to be better. Like, where do you sit with all of that? And where do you want to see this thing go? Yeah, I don't think you really have to be one or the other. I think it is the greatest, you know, store of value. And, but there's, there's nothing to stop

you. Just like, if you, if you've got wallet Satoshi on your phone, and you've got 50 quid in it, and you go and you buy your lunch with, with it, you know, like the other day when I, I want to bought those burgers. It was, it was expensive burgers, actually 17 quid. Wow. Yeah, it was

burgers and chips and it was 17 quid. But no, it was, oh my god, it was really, really good food. But, but then I just went on to my exchange app and bought 20 pounds worth of Bitcoin, topped the wallet back up. I mean, while I was sitting there after eating, I mean, it was like

a couple of minutes. I'd, I'd re-topped it back up. So as long as you're always spending and replacing, you're not, you're not getting out of Bitcoin, you're not selling your Bitcoin. You should never sell your Bitcoin, but it's fine to spend your Bitcoin. That's, that's my opinion.

I mean, you're spreading it around then. That's how, that's how adoption happens. That's how we, in the grandest key and the things, that's how, you know, as, as we get the bull runs go up and people who mad rush into the markets and, you know, they, they don't really know what

they're doing and they buy Bitcoin and then, and get freaked out when the price goes down. They sell it, but it's, you know, they're spraying their Bitcoin around and lots of other people are buying them. And it's gradually everybody's gets a little bit of Bitcoin, you know, and, and if we can

get more local merchants are buying the, accepting Bitcoin, then, then there. And now, now that Burger Man, he's got 17 pounds worth of Bitcoin that he didn't have before. And I've just, I was going to buy my lunch anyway. So, and I've just replaced the Bitcoin I spent. So I've,

I've not lost any. So I kind of think about it in that way, really. You can have both. Yeah. I think a lot of people's concern with things like that is like, Oh, well, if I'm buying on an exchange on KYC, then there's a record of that transaction. And then I move it out of there,

and unless I'm coin joining, there is then a record that I've spent it. And then that means what if there is some tax of future or some problem? And I understand that. I think that's a reasonable way to think because it is reasonable to assume that governments will try and fuck this up for us,

because obviously, you know, this is not good for them. They lose a lot of control. So I understand that side. But then on the other hand, what I'm thinking with these meetups is there's a lot of people who are either mining or they're so long Bitcoin that they need to sell a little bit to

live occasionally. There are a lot of people who do need to sell and, you know, you have Bisk and you have Robosat and you have some of these other peer-to-peer exchanges. But what I think would be really cool is to have at some of these meetups the ability where people can say, yeah, I'll sell

you a little bit and, you know, bang, you send it across lightning, whatever. And there's this constant churn and movement through actual Bitcoiners as well as these merchants, because my personal opinion is, you know, use the exchanges as little as you can, because it's probably going to bite

you at some point. But it's certainly the easiest way. But then, you know, a lot of people don't want to fuck around with Bisk and these kind of things. So you've already got a load of Bitcoiners meeting on a monthly or weekly basis, however you do it. So why not have an in-person exchange?

So I think that would be a really cool thing to have. Yeah, that's not a bad idea. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I suppose I'm a bit, I'm just sort of throwing, maybe a bad thing, but throwing caution to the wind a little bit with it. I just, yeah, I just think we should spread it around as much

as possible. But you've got to be careful. I think with as new kind of coin joins become easier to do. And there's this sort of security side of it. And the nimity of lightning and things.

That will help things, I think, hopefully eventually. Yeah. Well, wallet of Satoshi is quite nice. I mean, a lot of people are against these custodial wallets, but I use wallet of Satoshi for small amounts where I'm like, okay, it's 20 quid. Like, if they rug pull me, I'm not going to, you know,

as I'm not going to jump off a bridge, but what's quite nice is because it's custodial and all those sets are in one pool effectively. If you're, if you're not using it too often and you're using it a little bit randomly, it's pretty hard to track you at that point because they're

all sat in one pool. So that that is a benefit as far as I can see it. And there are a lot of different privacy techniques that people can use that really aren't that difficult. But it's just, you know, I think a lot of people are quite scared of it. And also, like you said, a lot of people

would just throw caution to the wind because the end of the day, what you're doing is ethically right. It's like, it's actually probably the best thing you could possibly do with your time to make the world a better place. So why the fuck should you worry about it? Like, you know what I

mean? Like, well, that's exactly what I think. Yeah. Yeah. I totally get that. Yeah. And, you know, this was saying earlier about just being in for a while and just not doing really contributing to the community, I suppose, I just thought, and how can I contribute? Because

I can't code and do that sort of tech side of things. So, you know, it's just one thing that I thought, well, I can do this. I can contribute by sort of trying to grow the community. So that's, you know, I've taken me a while to get there. But I think this is the way that I can contribute.

So definitely. Well, I'm hoping that some people who listen to this show will get spurred on, got a fair amount of people in England who do listen to this show. And yeah, I'm hoping if you're listening to this, that you think about it and maybe should they reach out to you if they're

thinking about it, can they reach out and ask for advice or help with things? Definitely. Yeah. I mean, I mean, yeah, I'm huddled solo on Twitter. And the Bitcoin events UK is also at Bitcoin events UK and our website, Bitcoin events dot UK. Those two, you can contact me if you want to

start a meetup. I mean, we'll list it on the website and help get the word out about it. I put a tweet out a week or so ago about just some tips that I thought that people that wanted to start a meetup is kind of things that help me. You know, some of them are pretty

obvious. I mean, like starting a telegram group and starting a Twitter account for it. And a few other little things, but I've been helping a few of the other meetup groups, Bitcoin, Sheffield.

They've just sort of trying to sort of boost up their numbers, I suppose. And so I was giving those guys a hand last week to sort of polish up there. They didn't have a Twitter account, for instance. So I was giving him a hand and made him a logo for his meetup group and

gave him a few tips. And so, yeah, it's just all working together, really, isn't it? And just helping each other out. I think if the organizers of the different meetups, if we chat as well, and then eventually maybe we can build it up into the point where we can cross over with some

joint events and just grow the community and just build it into as big a thing as possible. And with that sort of army, we can onboard more merchants. There's plenty of places around the country that I think the reason that I can find, anyway, I mean, there may be some that haven't

found, I mean, down in the Cornwall area, there doesn't seem to be any, the sort of east over in Norwich and that sort of Sussex area that there's none there. Manchester doesn't seem to have one that I could see. And the size from, I mean, there's some stuff in South Wales, but most of Wales

doesn't really have any, I haven't found any in Ireland, actually, I mean, sort of, really. I've got one, well, there's one in Northern Ireland, Belfast, Bitcoiners, but none in the, I did put some tweets out trying to find some in Ireland. I know there's

Bitcoiners there, they've got some, some guys mining and stuff. But, but I know I have listeners there. Yeah. So if there's any there that, that just want to, you know, want to get listed on our website, I mean, that helps boost your numbers a little bit maybe. And we can, so yeah, let me know

through, yeah, hard of a solo on Twitter. Brilliant. Well, I'll put all the links and everything in the show notes. And if I chat to anyone or anyone reaches out after listening to this, I'll send them your way. But yeah, I just want to say, I really, really appreciate what you're doing.

The fact that you're pushing this forward is, is incredible. And yeah, thank you from, from me and every other Bitcoiner in the UK. No problem. I'm, I'm loving it. Cool. Well, I think that's probably a good place to wrap it up, but I really enjoyed chatting to

you. And yeah, I wish you all the best. And just let me know if there's anything I can help with, and I'll be happy to help. All right. Well, thanks, Mike. I'll, yeah, it's been great, been great chatting with you. Thanks. All right. Cheers, mate. Thanks again for listening. And

I hope this episode inspires you to start a meetup or start going to one, start interacting more with Bitcoiners. And you can always reach out to SI if you want a little bit of help, or you want to be listed with your new meetup on the website. If you want to get in contact with me, my details

are in the show notes. And you can also reach us at ungovernable misfits.com. If you'd like to support the show and you don't want to stream any sat, I really would appreciate if people would either rate on any of the podcasting apps or give a comment or give feedback on the website.

Anything like that really does help me with the rankings and also to refine the website to make sure that people are getting exactly what they need. Thank you so much for all the support. And if this is your first dip or drop or whatever you want to call it, please don't shit yourself.

Things are going to be fine. And remember to have a low time preference and think about why we're really doing what we're doing. Read a few articles, listen to a few audio books, listen to some podcasts, relax, everything's going to be fine. Unless you've got a little bit lost and you've

stumbled across this podcast and you're holding a massive bag of shit coins, then probably do panic because you are fucked.