Bitcoin pleb underground with @Coinicarus

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.

Let's go!

Now, what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison. Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero. Yeah. Yeah.

All right, you ungovernable misfits. I'm your host, Max. Everybody knows that Bitcoin is useless, worthless, and doomed to fail. But what if everyone's wrong? What if it's the system that is doomed to fail?

Join me as I speak to some of the brightest people in the space, and deliver to the deepest, darkest depths of the Bitcoin rabbit hole.

Welcome back. Today's episode is with Coin Icarus. He's been a while since we caught up, and I always enjoyed chatting to him. We talked about his new show, why it's here, and why the plebs have to stay together.

Before we start, I want to thank my sponsors. First up, my anonymous sponsor. I'd like to take this 22nd slot to thank everyone who has been reaching out, sending sats, sending boosts, feedback, and everything else you've been doing for the show.

In this episode, we talked a lot about misaligned incentives and people fucking over their listeners. Podcasting 2.0 really allows people to keep their message pure and not dilute it so they take on shitty sponsors that line their back pocket.

I really want to make sure that this show always stays true, and we always call out the bullshit. So, thank you very much to everyone who's been giving the boosts, screaming sats, and all of the messages.

I really do appreciate it. If you haven't already started, you can download Fountain or Breeze. If you have any questions setting it up, you can always reach out to me and I'll be happy to help, but it really is very simple, and you can start screaming and earning sats today.

Next up, I'd like to thank Foundation Devices. Foundation Devices are my favorite hardware company. They make the incredible passport, and if you haven't already seen this thing, I suggest you check it out today.

FoundationDevices.com will have all the info you need, and if you have any questions and you want to reach out to me before you buy one of these, you can do. I will answer any questions I can, and if I can't answer the questions, I will pass you on to the team.

These things are not only beautiful and simple to use, they are also open source, and they take the privacy and security of their users very, very seriously. Check out foundation devices.com and use the code bit by bit for $10 off.

And finally, FastBitcoins. FastBitcoins are an exchange based in the Isle of Man, and they do things differently. First of all, they do not want to hold your sats. They push in every way they can to get you to have your sats off exchange.

They have an incredible team, including Danny Brewster, their CEO, who has been on this show a couple of times, and I can tell you he is a proper Bitcoiner. They have been sponsoring this show for over six months now, despite me constantly bashing KYC services.

As I've said to everyone who listens to this show many, many times, the best way to get your sats is KYC free, but I understand everyone's not gonna do that. If you're not gonna do that, I really strongly suggest you use these guys.

If you are gonna give over your information, you should make sure that this is with a company that take your security and privacy as seriously as it's possible. They are also always ahead of the curve.

They were the first exchange in the world to use lightning, and they are always pushing the limits of what's possible. Check them out at fastbikorns.com, and if you have any questions you can reach out to me, I'll be honest about the trade-offs, and I just wanna thank them, because there's not many exchanges

that would support a show like mine, and with all the KYC bashing and everything else, it just goes to show that these guys are doing what they can to make sure the message stays pure. So thanks to Danny and everyone in the team.

Right, on to the show. Enjoy. - Hey, mate, can you hear me? - Yes, I can hear you, can you hear me? - Yeah, all coming through good. How are you, mate? - Very good, very good, man. How about you?

Thank you so much for having me back on. - Ah, it's a pleasure, mate, always a pleasure chatting to you. - Sweet. - Same here. - Actually tuned in for the first sort of three minutes of your new show.

How do you manage three minutes? 'Cause then I had a load of other shit kicking off, but yeah, that looked pretty cool. - It was also an hour, you know what? It was also an hour and 40-minute show, which was completely unexpected, so that was also pretty interesting.

We did not expect to go that long, actually, so I released the full show, but eventually we're gonna, I've already clipped it out. I'm gonna release just the interview portion with Pirate Beach Bum, because he gives this really excellent breakdown of essentially how the term pleb got brought into Bitcoin

and kind of the history of the taco plebs and stuff like that. So it's pretty cool for people who want to understand and get to know that aspect of the culture. - Yeah, I have to tune into that.

Like say, I got the first three minutes, got so Walton's just incredible body. I mean, the show came off, the pecs were flexing, and I was just thinking, "Fuckin' hell, look at this guy."

Listening, you know what? He really motivates me to work out a lot harder. You know, like, I thought I was, I thought I was doing pretty well, you know, I was doing the daily push-ups, you know, I'm doing the virtual boxing, the, you know, the sit-ups, some free weights, and then I see Walton come on the show without a shirt,

and I'm like, this guy just freakin' won up to me. - Yeah, he doesn't wear a shirt anywhere anymore. - Just, that's it, you know? Like, we recorded, we actually recorded a clip yesterday.

Again, no shirt. - No shirt. - I just, he's, you know what? He's got the confidence, he's got the confidence I lack, and I have to work up to this. - Just everywhere now, it's sunglass is no shirt, funerals, weddings, doesn't matter, here be there, no shirt. - It doesn't matter.

That's right, if anything, everyone's just looking at him saying, how can I be free like this man? - Yeah. (laughing) - That's good. - No, but it's awesome. It's awesome to be recording with him.

You know, I've known him for a little while, you know, we've chatted back and forth, not too often, but, you know, I've spent enough time in the Bitcoin Council of Autism to hear his rants, and yeah, you know, I enjoy talking with him, and I think that we, I think we have good flow going back and forth.

- Yeah, well, that's what it's all about, you know, especially when you've got that kind of show, like something on YouTube, and you're doing the video, and you're doing everything else, like, you've got to have that back and forth.

I don't think I could ever do something like that. Like, you guys have to bring loads of energy all the time. You have to like, think out and plan out what you're gonna talk about. Yeah, it takes actual brain power and thought, whereas I can just like, flick this on and just have a conversation with mates

and push it out and, you know, half the time of fucking rec, but yeah, so that's off to you. - You know what, honestly, Max, you're giving us way too much credit. So believe it or not, when it comes to, you know, when it comes to what we're talking about, it's always, or at least for the majority of the time,

it's completely off the cuff, right? Like, we don't actually plan out, you know, what we're gonna say. And this was also true with simply Bitcoin. I mean, you know, we do choose articles, right?

We choose different pieces to riff on, but we have no idea what the flow is gonna be like. Like, I have no idea what Walton is gonna say. He has no idea what I'm gonna say. And it just, you know, the magic ends up happening once you start talking.

So it's either a really great entertaining conversation or it's not. But the point is, is that it's natural. And this is something that, this is something that I enjoyed with simply Bitcoin.

This was something that I enjoyed doing with the fun with Bitcoin podcast, just like you, right? You know, you get on, you turn on the recording and see what happens. I mean, this is, don't get me wrong, but like, this is how proper signal in my eyes gets through because we're giving genuine opinions and we're being authentic.

And we're not like, you're not staging it. I mean, enough of everything that we see is planned and coordinated. And it's just, I don't know, it just gets tired and boring. You know, like all the media that we end up seeing in the mainstream media is all of this, it's just this planned, regurgitated garbage

that we've all seen a thousand times in different flavors. So it's just really, this is something that I think is beautiful about the internet. It's beautiful about the fact that we have platforms like YouTube, Rumble, Bitcoin, TV.

You know, you just, you have these platforms that really inspire authenticity and being genuine. And you know what, the second that you, you know, the second that you're listening or watching somebody that isn't being those things, you pick it up right away.

You know, you could see it. It's right there in broad daylight. So yeah, I like the direction that this is all going. - Certainly you can pick it up and I like to think I can pick it up, but what I don't understand is that it seems the whole certainly crypto industry and a lot of the Bitcoin industry do not seem to understand this.

There is so much noise out there and there's so many breaking tweets and bullshit. People fleecing their listeners. It's just really fucking annoying, to be honest. It's just like, it's a frustrating thing to watch when there are so many, I mean, like, I'll speak to random plebs who no one's ever heard of.

They've never been on a podcast. We're just chatting in the background and I'm like, this might be the smartest person I've ever spoken to. But no one's fucking listening to them. They don't have a podcast.

They're not going around shouting and screaming and doing all the clickbait and stuff. And what happens is people come into this space and they end up listening to proper fucking retards and they then get sold a load of shit.

I just think like it's nice to see a bit of a pushback. I think it's starting to happen a little bit more. People are starting to be a bit more aware. Maybe it's because we've just had like a big dump in price and people have been rug pulled on a few different things and maybe they're going, well, hang on a minute.

I've been listening to this person or that person and they fucked me. Maybe I'll go somewhere else. - Yeah, that's, you know what? You bring up a good point, right, about the bear market and I think there's a couple of points here.

So first of all, it's incentives, right? None of us, I mean, we all say this in Bitcoin but I think that there's, so it's interesting, right? Like there's a lot of points that are parroted over and over again, but I really wonder how many of us are really thinking about what these things mean

and what they, you know, how they affect us personally. Like none of us are better than our incentives. Like take me, for example. I hold a lot of, you know, I quote unquote, hold a lot of Bitcoin or maybe it's all gone in a voting act.

- Essentially, it's a lot. You were telling me off air is so much. - Times, times, so many Bitcoin, you know. But the point is, but the point is, is that my incentive, yes, is to talk about Bitcoin and not only that, but explain how crypto is a scam and the reason why I'm incentivized for this, number one, I got rekt as fuck.

Okay, in the 2018 bull market. Okay, I got completely rekt. So for me, I just really want to avoid other people's headaches. Yeah, that there is an altruistic, you know, angle to, you know, to some of our incentives.

And part of that altruistic angle is, you know what? I don't want to see somebody else get rekt. I know exactly what it's like. I know what it's like to waste over a year of my time and money and energy in something that didn't need to go there.

And had I had spent less time, less energy and just simply bought and held my Bitcoin, I would have been in a significantly better position sooner. So there's that aspect of it, right? The other aspect of it is this, the bear market.

So Bitcoin humbles everyone, right? Like Matt Odell always talks about, you know, stay humble, stack sats. And I know that there's a lot of people who misunderstand what humility is. I've seen, you know, I've seen a lot of people sit there and think, well, no, you know, you should be out there.

You should be outspoken. Like listen, humility doesn't mean that, you know, humility doesn't mean that you're not, that you don't have great qualities or something like that. It's simply about understanding that every human being has quote unquote special qualities, whatever they may be.

And in understanding that every human is special, we understand that no humans are special, right? Because we're all special. So when everyone is one thing, there is no other. It's like, that's what it is.

So you're all special, which means no one is special. Anyways, the point I was trying to make was that in the bear market, a lot of us, a lot of us have to stop and reflect, right? Like the euphoria, the euphoria, and the, you know, the dopamine, the excitement, you know, of Bitcoin reaching new all-time highs,

you know, the NGU technology, all that stuff. Like, you know, that euphoria is gone. And all you're left with is essentially your narratives and your incentives. So what we end up seeing, unfortunately, is we end up seeing some, you know, some influencers start to pivot towards shitcoins.

We see some traders who were quote unquote Bitcoin-only traders, all of a sudden, start talking to you about their amazing gains in the shitcoin. That's like cringe in redfly. Like I saw that this morning from Will Clemente or whatever.

Like, it's just so embarrassing. I just, anyways, teach their own. Don't get me wrong, teach their own. Do whatever the hell he wants. But I just find that horribly embarrassing. And anyone who sits there and looks at those people and sees them as signal, you got to wake up.

Like, that is not signal. This person is just milking a crowd. Like, that's all it is, you know? So this is the, you know, the crux of, you know, that's kind of the crux of the matter, right?

Like, we have these different aspects that are constantly pushing and pulling. And look, you know, at the end of the day, what made me stop and think was, why did I come here originally? I came to Bitcoin originally for sound money.

I came here originally because I wanted to opt out of the current system where the government could freeze my assets, where the government or specifically banks can choose whether I can transfer money or not.

You know, these are, these seem like simple things. But unfortunately, our system completely enables, you know, completely enables this kind of like powerful parental figure, you know, that it's going to keep you safe and tell you what to do and make everything all right.

No, no, we need personal responsibility and we need it now more than ever. Yeah, completely agree. It's just trying to find a way that people who come into the space find that. If someone's been around here for long enough and they hang around in the sort of Twitter circles and around the plebs,

what they do start to do is change their behavior. And you do start to have people accepting responsibility, being a little bit more humble generally, starting to care about themselves and the people around them and to just not be so fucking retarded and going into these scams and stuff like that,

they start to realize, well, this is a long game now. And there's a reason that I'm here, not just like, I'm here, I'm going to jump in, I'm going to jump out and I'm going to have a load of money and then I'm going to blow it.

It's like, well, no, I actually want to make changes because they start to realize just how fucked the world is around them. And so what I'd like to see is more people finding that message, not having to first go to some of the bigger podcasts and some of the bigger media, learning a load of bullshit for a year

or have along it takes and then having to get wrecked and then having to either go away with their tail between their legs and never coming back and thinking that the whole things are scow and the whole thing is useless or a few of them wait around and then it takes another year before they actually find the signal.

And so what would be really nice is to see a bit of a shortcut for people where they can actually find these podcasts, find these articles. From the little bit of digging that I've done, it seems like Pirate has been sort of pushing that and you're certainly interested in that as well and that's really, really good to see.

Yeah, and you know what, that actually brings us to a selfless shill. Here we go. So that's why that's one of the reasons that we started PLEB Underground was to help amplify the voice of all of us nobodies, right?

All of us non-influencers, all of us quote unquote, undesirables. You know, the people that really just want some proper signal, you know, possibly just an authentic opinion, right? From somebody that isn't being paid to come up with some shiny narrative that's going to make you feel all good about yourself, you know,

as you essentially walk off the cliff. So yeah, so we started, you know, so it always, I'm sorry, but all the influencers and the shit-coiners, they just remind me of the Pied Piper, right?

The Pied Piper leading rats through the streets, you know, and essentially leading the lemmings off the cliff. But that's why we started PLEB Underground, so that we can help amplify the signal of all of us, because all of us together, right?

All of us together actually amplifying each other's signal. This is what helps get it out there. Like, I can't tell you how many times I've been told, like, you know what, I was really, I had a lot of shit-coin bags, and then I started to listen to you guys.

And this was, you know, from when I was on Simply Bitcoin, and they said, you know, yeah, I got rid of all my shit-coins. I got rid of all my shit-coins because I realized that these projects made no sense.

And ever since I did that, you know, I've had people tell me, you know, I sleep better, I've had people tell me, you know, that they're just happier, they don't have to worry, you know, and it seems, you know, the other, it's kind of interesting, right, that you get a counter-narrative

to that from the shit-coiners, like, oh, yeah, well, you know, it's just you don't understand the tech or you're lazy or, you know, you just don't have the guts to take on the risk. So look, there's no valor, there's no courage in buying a scam, okay?

There's no courage in that, and then making money off of it, okay? That was sheer luck. That's all it is. It's not a talent or anything like that, okay? Because you're buying a scam, and you're hoping that your bags are going to pump, and I've actually tweeted this out before,

you know, make no mistake, the whole entire goal of shit-coining is to dump your bags on the next person. So they either dump their bags for more Bitcoin, or they dump their bags for fiat, but in no way do they actually think for a second that this quote-unquote centralized corporate created shit-coin is going to somehow be

freedom money or anything like freedom money. So anyways, so going back to, you know, this is why we started PLEB Underground. We wanted to give proper PLEB signal and help amplify our fellow PLEBs, whether it's by retweeting their work, showcasing their work, maybe bringing them on the show to, you know, to have an interview to discuss

the work that they're doing. Because look, you know, this is something that I recognized when I first started fun with Bitcoin. My audio only podcast, you know, four years ago was because, you know, not everybody is a developer, okay? Not all of us write code. And I remember there was like this huge narrative

when I first got in, you know, learn to code, learn to code. You know what? Not everybody wants to write fucking code, okay? At the end of the day, sorry, you know, like the same way that not everybody is destined to be a brain surgeon or a lawyer, you know, or a social worker or whatever the hell, like everybody is going to do

whatever it is they are compelled to do. And not everyone is going to write code. So there are plenty of things that you can do in Bitcoin that are not about writing code. And a large portion of it is amplifying proper signal.

Unfortunately, amplifying proper signal takes persistence, okay? It takes persistence, it takes dedication, and you're most likely going to deal with a lot of low engagement, okay? Because you're doing your own marketing. You don't have a marketing team.

It's not like the shit coiners where you have VCs backing this garbage and paying a whole bunch of people to amplify the signal. This is, and again, you know, this is why we unfortunately see so many people like, you know, like grift boy, or sorry, bit boy, you know, that sit there and get paid, you know, per tweet and

get paid to show these garbage projects. Hey, look, everybody wants to make a living. The question is, right? The question is, do you, you know, do you want to be, does, are you able to sleep at night? And for me, if I'm shilling absolute garbage, I can't sleep at night. It just, it just doesn't do it for me. Like, I have to feel good,

I have to respect myself. Now granted, I'm fairly certain that grift boy, you know, respects himself, but I've also watched enough of his crap to know, or at least to see that it seems as though he buys into his own bullshit, you know, like that, that's to me, that's what I've seen. Oh,

Max, I think I lost you. Is I lose you? I think I lost you there for a second. I saw you disappear and come back. We were just talking about bitch boy, you know, people like that, I, I mean, they don't even really annoy me that much because I'm just like, it's a different world

to me, that whole crypto world is completely fucking separate. Where it annoys me is, if you have people infiltrating Bitcoiners and the space, and then they start to say the right things to sound like they're part of a movement, and then they do that for a little while, and then

they dump on their listeners, that fucking annoys me, because it is a different world. You have got people here who are actually trying to make real change. This whole thing about like not outing them annoys me as well, because just think, well, you have to speak out against it because

otherwise we're going to end up in the exact same situation that the fiat world is in. You can't allow these grifters in, you can't allow them to take hold, they have to be cast out. And then you have to allow people to find new content and people who are actually talking about the

important stuff. It's, you know, the reason that I push so hard on privacy and try and get people to be using Bitcoin and actually learning about Bitcoin, not just the same old bullshit about, oh, we're going to a million dollars of coin and just hold on and diamond hands, whatever. It's just

like, I don't know, I find it a little bit. I hate that meme, by the way, the diamond hands memes. It is just awful. I just, I mean, don't get me wrong. Like, I get it. I get the symbolism and everything. My problem with it is really the people who originally pushed this stuff. It just,

it just makes me cringe. It's, it's like, why, why, why diamond hands? Like, that's weird. I don't know. I just, I just find it strange. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of stuff like that where it's a bit strange. It's like people share. The other thing I don't like is people shaming people for using

Bitcoin. You know, it's like, Oh, well, yeah, you're an idiot. You bought something with Bitcoin, it's like, it's what's fucking meant to be made is so stupid, but it's creeping its way in. And it's all back to what we're talking about before. I think it's all back to incentives. It's like,

you have a group of people who are just desperate for everyone to hold. That's all Bitcoin's meant to be used for. And they forget why it's really here. They just care about this number go up.

It's all about, Oh, well, I've got 100% of my money in Bitcoin. It's like, that's cool. I'm there myself. Like, I literally can barely pay my bill at the end of each month. I've got a fucking jump around and jig around to just get my bills paid, because everything's in Bitcoin.

But that's okay for me. It's not okay for some people. You know, if you've got three kids or you've got medical bills to pay or you've got other things that need taking care of, it's like, you have responsibility. You know how Bitcoin moves. You know that this can just drop by 80%.

It does it regularly. So it's like, you'd be fucking stupid to push and shame somebody for using Bitcoin. Or sometimes it's really fucking useful for doing some purchases that you can't do with fear or a hardest to do with fear. And it's like, well, it's useful for that as well.

So use it for that. This sort of demonization of all sorts of Bitcoiners who are actually using it just is irritating and childish. And yeah, I just, it needs to stop. It's just, yeah, I don't know.

That's just a rant that's going nowhere, but no, no, it's not. It's not. And it's, it's very important. I think that that's another point that people need to hear. I've never had a problem spending Bitcoin. I stack as much Bitcoin as I possibly can. Unfortunately, it all disappears

in, you know, my voting accidents that take place daily. But I do my best to stack. And at the same time, it's, it's a privilege or it's, I should say, it's my pleasure to pay somebody for a service or product in Bitcoin that I believe this person is offering me value. You know, for example, okay,

any graphic that I've ever gotten done from from a Bitcoiner, you know, but whether it's avatars or something like that for the show, I always pay in Bitcoin. Why not? Why would, and, and I just, you know, to the proponents that are, you know, the, the diamond hands people and that think like,

Oh, you know, you shouldn't spend Bitcoin. I just want to point out, okay, using Bitcoin does not affect the price of Bitcoin if that's all you care about. So if you know what I mean, if you and I max were to do a transaction right now, the price of Bitcoin in fiat dollars stays the

same. Yeah, it doesn't affect it. Okay. So all of this crap that's playing out is playing out in exchanges. That's where it's playing out. So this has nothing to do with, you know, one with the other, you can spend your Bitcoin and you can provide value to others and they can provide value to you

and you can rest assured, you know, it's not actually, it's not, it's not actually affecting the price of Bitcoin. So there's that piece of it too. And you know, I think the last aspect of it is it, you know, exactly, it's exactly what you said. Shaming people for using Bitcoin is

it's just a, it's just cultish and not a good cult. It's just a bad, it's just a bad cultish thing. Because at the end of the day, you can't go around telling everyone it's going to be a medium of exchange. If you can't use it as a medium of exchange, like no one, people don't understand,

right? Like the evolution of money, like if these things don't happen, then this Bitcoin thing doesn't happen. So anyways, it's just ridiculous. And the other pieces is that, you know, people, people also, you know, we tend to like, we tend to take ownership over ideas, right? Like once you

believe something, human being tends to take ownership of what they believe. And then, and then you put passion behind it, and you put, you put energy behind it. And now you feel that you own it, and you have to protect it, and all of this stuff. And it's like, you know, we don't need to do that.

Like that doesn't actually have to happen. We can actually just use this and learn about it, and teach it as such. And people are going to, you know, if we do that in this way, then people are going to view it in this way. And that's the narrative that we project.

So anyways, just some food for thought. So what sort of things are you thinking for this show? You mentioned, obviously, shining a light on some of the plebs and getting the information out there.

Is there like a certain layout that you're going to be doing? Because, you know, simply, Bitcoin was very or relatively structured. Oh, by the way, did I fucking break simply Bitcoin? Because I came on the audio. We recorded right. I said to my Mrs. Oh, yeah. I don't think I

really understood there was some question about what is this as a pen or something like that. And I was like, I actually didn't know what the fuck I was talking about for it. Got to the end. And then I got the message, oh, we had a problem with the audio. And I was like, oh, that's all right.

It's probably just they didn't want to put it out because I'm a fucking retard. And they were like, no, not at all. Then a couple of days later, it was like, I'm stepping away from simply Bitcoin. I was like, Oh, no, I fucking broke it. No, no, no. I mean, I, you know, obviously,

I don't necessarily want to get into the, you know, the drama aspect of behind the scene stuff. But, you know, suffice it to say, you know, we both, you know, we both had different visions and similar visions, but not the same. And I, you know, in my perception, I felt that I had been dealing

with something for a little while. And it just all came to a head, so to speak. And at that moment, I just I just had to walk away. I really did. We just weren't seeing eye to eye on certain things.

And I just I just had to walk away. And I honestly believe that it was the it was the best thing that I could do. So no, don't worry, Max, you did not break simply Bitcoin. And actually, I mean, look, you know, optimist is on there. They're doing the show. Like, I wouldn't say it's broken

at all. You know, I think they're doing just great. But what was the other piece that there was something else that you that you just mentioned? Oh, yeah. For the, you know, so yeah, we're bringing people on on the sorry, the structure of the show. So yes, so the pleb underground YouTube show is

part of the pleb underground. So essentially, as in simply Bitcoin, right, the YouTube show was at the forefront. In this case, the YouTube show is part of all of the media that we're putting out. So essentially, you know, pirate does all of the, you know, or the majority, well, I'd say all

of the, you know, the articles and stuff like that. He's kind of like the news arm of the, you know, of the pleb underground. And I'm kind of the, I'm the video arm of the the pleb underground with, with Walton, you know, and we're taking, you know, and we're doing the, the YouTube show. So it's

the structure. It's going to be similar, but not the same. So I've got these different segments, right? I've got the the shit coin corner because I can't not dump on the fails. I can't not dump on the shit coiners. And when I say shit pointers, yeah, I'm talking about the central bankers. I'm

talking about these ESG idiots, everybody, like to me, all of these people are shit pointers of some variation. There's also another, another segment that we're calling Hopium. Okay. And that's because I always found, I always found the news was kind of like Hopium because it's,

it's always outlining, you know, like what's coming out in Bitcoin or, you know, what's happening in the world that makes Bitcoin more attractive. So to me, that's all Hopium. And then after that, we're, we also have a third segment, which we haven't actually released yet. But eventually we,

we will, it's going to, it's kind of like a rotating segment called the history of bad money. Okay, because let's be honest, we have a whole entire history of fiat money. We've got all kinds of garbage, right, that has been touted as money. And I figure there's enough material to, you know,

to make a segment out of that. So anyways, we're going to, you know, we're going to try to work that in. But something else that we're doing a little bit different than what we were, you know, than what I was doing on simply Bitcoin is, we're also going to be releasing kind of like standalone,

standalone clips. So with, you know, with simply Bitcoin, we were, you know, I would go back and I would take a look at, you know, some of the older material and then optimist was, was doing this as well, go back, look at the older material, cut out some really, you know, some juicy signal

stuff and turn that into a clip. We're going to be doing that with pleb underground YouTube show, but we're also going to be creating unique, unique material as well for clips. So again, you know, it's just trying to get more of the signal out there and also making it easy to digest,

right? Because at the end of the day, that that's also part of this. I think that there's such a huge, there's there's massive competition for our eyes, right? And you have to, you know what, you you got to put out you you've got to put out some good signal signal that people appreciate.

So I figure that, I figure that this is a good mix. Yeah, and you were mentioning what pirate was doing and what you guys are doing with the pleb underground. Actually, funnily enough, another podcast, I think is very underrated is Elsie Hoddle, the blue collar pleb

cast. Yep. I was listening to that a couple of days ago and he had pirate on there and he was talking through a little bit about why you guys were doing what you were doing. And yeah, I think it sounds very interesting, like the vision that he has, the overall vision, you know, this idea of

people working together and shining light. And it's something we tried to do for a long time with 21ism, leaning more probably towards the outside and stuff like that. But it's nice to work as a bit of a collective to have people you can lean on and work with. It's just not only does it work,

it's also nicer to do that kind of work. It's just more fun working with people. The pirates point, it's about sharing the love, sharing the love, spreading the love, like that's really what it's about. Because you know, this is something that kind of, and I think that this is why pleb

underground touches me in such a way is because I remember when I started fun with Bitcoin, you know, nobody amplified the pleb signal. And I was sitting there looking around and I'm like, there's it's exactly what you said, Max, you know, like some of these people, some of these unknowns

are have some of the most brilliant takes. And no one is ever going to hear them, because they're not some influencer. They don't have enough followers. Like, that is some total nonsensical bullshit. Like, I follow accounts that have like 30 followers. I followed some dude

yesterday that has like four followers or two followers. I don't give a fuck. Okay, honestly, followers, first of all, is an embarrassing term. For me, I just see them as friends. I don't know, I think that all of this, this language is just cringe, self absorbed psychotic behavior.

So yeah, I like to follow, I like to follow as many plebs as possible. And and you know what, to me, those are the voices that I want to hear like, I, you know, like, like you said, right, LC's podcast is super underrated. LC is one of the most, you know, genuine people in the space.

Okay, like zero fucks given. And this guy says what, you know, he says what he wants. And any any means it. And you know what, I appreciate that. I think that these voices, we need more of these voices rather than having these, these curated circle jerkers that just

get off on on their like, you know, their fancy vocabulary and like, look at me, I'm such an amazing storyteller. Like fuck off, you know, at the end of the day, at the end of the day, every single one of us, I know that people don't want to accept that stuff. But look, at the end of the day,

every single one of us is a human. All of us are going to make mistakes. Every single one of us needs to keep our ego in check. Okay. So you know what, every one of us is going to die. And every single person, every single person is going to be shot out my bugs. Okay, like,

unless you get created, I'm going to get done. Yeah, exactly. You know, unless you get cremated, you're turning into bug poop. So too bad, you know, like, and that's the reality of it. So, you know, these people that sit there and sniff their own farts and think that they're so amazing.

It's like, you know what, you got to humble yourself, because everybody can, everybody can memorize a bunch, you know, a bunch of information and regurgitate it. It's really not that difficult.

Okay. So it's just like that. That's why people got to take themselves less seriously. Yeah. And people to see through it, you know, there's only so many times you need to hear the same thing. You really don't need to hear the same thing repeated 1000 times in slightly

different flavors. At the end of the day, especially when people have been around here for a couple of years and they're particularly interested, then it's like, okay, I can see that Bitcoin is probably going to be around for a long time. It's probably going to be a lot more valuable.

There's definitely a load of interesting interactions and load of things being developed on it. So, let's focus on that. Like you said, rather than sniffing your own farts and regurgitating a load of stuff, just take like a bit of Jordan Peterson and a little bit of some philosopher and then you

sprinkle on some of your own wording and I don't know, it seems like there's not a lot of point to all of it. Whereas like you then tune in, you either have someone who's having a real conversation or you tune in and you listen to the technical updates and the things that are

actually happening in Bitcoin, because that's the thing that's going to make a change. You know, that's where the focus should be, or at least in my eyes, that's where the focus should be.

So it's good to see more of that happening. It's good to see people collaborating and yeah, like you said, like amplifying each other and because otherwise you have these big accounts and they're the only people that anyone follows and listens to and for the most part, they're

leading them down a dangerous path because even if they're not actually within their material selling shitcoins or anything like that, a lot of the time you listen to these adverts from these supposed maxis and you know, some of the companies that they're shilling are very, very dangerous

for their listeners and you just think, that's not what Bitcoin's about to me. That's not why we're here. Like that's actually so fear. It's sick. You know what, to your point, it's kind of funny, right? Because and this kind of brings me back to a quote. I don't know who said it,

obviously somebody way smarter than me. But if you read the same books as everyone else, you're going to think the same thoughts as everyone else. And that's very powerful because a lot of times this is what we see in Bitcoin and specifically in the quote unquote crypto space, right? Like

let's be honest, right? Crypto is an extension of the fiat system. Can you hear me? Test test one two? Okay. Fuck test test. Can you hear me now? I can hear you now. It's just just fucking happens all the time. Don't know why there was something weird that was happening on my end.

The last recording when I was talking, I noticed for some reason the voice portion like mine just showed a straight line with nothing. Hmm. Okay. Anyways, we'll see what happens in the worst case scenario. When if you want, we can reschedule, you know, it's no issue. It should be fine. I'm

sure it's fine. So where were we? We were shitting on influencers. We were shitting on central banks. We were shitting on shit corners. We were just we were just ranting away at the world and explaining why pleb culture is important. So exactly, exactly, you know, and you know, we were we were also talking

about what the I think the different goals were of of what the pleb underground, you know, of what the the pleb underground was meant to be. And yeah, you know, so it's kind of funny. We've already had some people reach out to us and be like, okay, so how do you, you know, well, what exactly,

you know, what exactly do you do? So, you know, we explain, hey, look, you know, we could retweet some of your material or we could showcase it on our sub stack. And it was funny because one of the people asked, they said, so how much do you charge for this? We're like, we don't charge

for this. You know, it's like, this is the whole point, like, at some point, right, somebody has to decide to do the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing. And no, in no way, do like, we sit there and think that we're like fricking martyrs or saints or people to look up to or any

of that shit. We are just fucking random plebs that have decided to do this. And that's all there is to it. And other plebs are going to come along and they are going to do this as well. And eventually, okay, what happens? Just like with Bitcoin, hearts and minds, people see, hey, you know what,

there is value in doing this. And then they start doing it and the signal amplifies. This is what's really important, right? Like I've said this in the past, like Bitcoin, you know, Bitcoin doesn't need any of us individually. Okay, as individuals, it needs all of us. There's a big difference.

There's a massive difference. So anyways, that's just that's my take. And, you know, this is the this is the direction that we're that we're pulling in. Yeah, well, I think it's important as well, because as a collective and as a group of people, you can achieve a lot more. It's all well and good

saying, Oh, well, I'm going to be a martyr and I'm going to do everything for free. And you can do that for a certain amount of time. And then it comes to a point where you've actually got to eat, and you've actually got to put a roof over your head and you've actually got to do some work that

earns. And so, you know, that's been a journey for me as well. You know, the last whatever it's been for five years has been well, you give up all your fear at work, and you focus and you spend every waking hour obsessing over Bitcoin and creating content and working with other

Bitcoiners. And you know, I've done it with this show and I've done it with 21ism. And you know, to make good content is pretty time consuming. And so what happens is with a lot of people, they'll do it for a certain amount of time. And then they'll just go, I can't do this anymore.

I literally can't because I have to actually pay some bills. Then what happens is those podcasts and that media dies off. And the people who are taking the big sponsorship deals to dump on their listeners, they continue. And so it gets perpetually worse. And so if you can work as a collective,

you can actually take some of that pressure off. You can create a lot more with less time, and you can amplify the signal much more. So I think it's really a good idea. It's actually working as a network, basically, rather than people just slogging away. And you know, if the other

thing is you never, if you say the truth, the truth often isn't that sexy and exciting. And so if you don't put out these stupid fucking clickbaity tweets, and you don't pay for advertising, and you don't do all the other bullshit, you just don't get seen. I'll try and push people

your way and try and get people to view it as much as I can as well. Because otherwise, you know, everyone just goes, eventually, I'm tacking out. And that would be very, very sad. Yeah. And I think to your point, right, when somebody decides that, hey, you know, like, I,

you know, I have to eat, I have to put a roof over my head, all these things, which, of course, right, like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you know, like we kind of have no choice. There's certain things that human beings require in order to move on to the next step. So what happens is

that sometimes people end up diluting their signal, right, in order to, you know, to garner the paycheck. And that's, you know, again, this, this, this goes back to the fact that like we as a society reward the wrong behavior. I think it's evidenced by fiat money. I think it's evidenced by this,

you know, like you can, you can literally see, I mean, you know, for example, right? You know, it's probably a bad example. But for me, it, it rings true. You know, a doctor, right? Like the, the doctors first, the, you know, the, the first thing that they're supposed to be doing is caring

about the patient. But unfortunately, we've, we've come to the point now where the doctor's incentive doesn't always align with the patient. So it takes a specific type of person to decide to uphold their Hippocratic oath, you know, as opposed to the doctor that's literally just working

in order to get the, you know, the, the, I guess you'd say the gravy from the pharmaceutical companies. You know, like that's, that's something that happens. And that is a fiat incentive. And again, this is one of those situations where we are not better. None of us are better than our incentives.

And the terrible thing, which, you know, we've all said this a thousand times as Bitcoiners, is that that's part of the money being broken. You, you actually cannot do the right thing because the money will not allow it, not for any length of time. So at some point, we have to decide what

it is that we want to fix. And, and this is the also the brilliant part, evil brilliance of a fiat money is that it forces so many people who have these good intentions into these bad situations.

Okay, they don't even realize it. And they think that they're standing up for something. But the problem that they're standing up for can never be solved because it's underlying, it's, it's underlying, um, base is made of fiat money. And that fiat money incentivizes us to

simply just make more of it by any means necessary because it doesn't retain its value. And or it doesn't go up in value in terms of what it can, in terms of what it can buy us in the real world. So again, you know, this, this all goes back to the broken money. So it's sad, but it's,

it's also true, right? Like we've said a million times, right? You fix the money, you fix the world. This is part of it because our base layer is broken. And therefore, everything we build on top of it is broken. And of course, there'll be the argument of, well, we have so many structures in society

that work perfectly fine. Certainly for a time, they may seem to work perfectly fine. But we're not looking at this through a long term lens. And again, this is one of those things that Bitcoin incentivizes. Yeah. And then I think what we've got to be careful with is we have this excellent

money. Now, we now need to make sure that we preserve that and improve on that. Because I think it's getting a bit worrying out there. I just recorded with Bitcoin Q&A and Antemas doing our monthly show. And we're talking about, you know, all these new IRS agents and some of the other

crazy things that are going on. It's like, well, we need to make damn sure that people are actually using Bitcoin and using it in a way that they at very least have plausible deniability, that they have it secure, that they start to use it. And that we don't allow this thing to be captured

in ways that I think a lot of people aren't even considering at the moment. And that's where the focus should be is to improve. Yeah, exactly. And you know what, you bring up a good point with the IRS agents. I mean, if that's not enough of a mind fuck, I don't know what is. You have a government

that claims, right? Governments Oh, yeah, you know, we, we, we work for the people really. You work for the people. So instead of going out and putting money into the infrastructure of the country, you go out and buy financial police officers. I mean, this is the this backwards thinking is so

disgusting and psychotic. And you know what the crazy thing is? The people that they're hiring, those are human beings. These are human beings that could otherwise end up in their own crosshairs.

It's just, it's so mind boggling. And it is a perfect example of a broken incentive system. Completely broken. The government, if that's, if that's not enough of an example of the government not working for the people, we are still too asleep. And unfortunately, this means the governments

can take away more of our freedom. That's what it tells me. It tells me you're not, we're not ready yet. We're, we want more pain. And we need more suffering. And we need more freedom taken away.

Because people just don't see it yet. Like, like, let, let's be honest. It's not, it's not enough civil unrest. Like what people also, you know, this, this goes back to the whole historical aspect. You know, when people over through governments and people over through,

you know, kings, you know, monarchies and stuff like that, there's, you know, there's a reason for this. Like, there is a, there is a reason that, at least in the States that you have, you know, that you have the First Amendment, that you have the Second Amendment, you know, that you have the

right to bear arms. And, and again, it's not the way the government frames it is. Oh, yeah, you know, you need to, it's your neighbors that you need to worry about. And that's, that's kind of the narrative that they push. But at the end of the day, the real fear, the real fear is the tyrannical

government. And this is what people don't understand because they essentially, the, the story that is being shown to everybody is that, hey, you've got a choice. Give us a little bit more of your freedom and we'll provide a little more security. But who are you being, who are we being secured

from? We're essentially being told that we need to worry about our neighbors, that we need to worry about our erratic, you know, the, the, the erratic population that cannot be controlled.

This is done on purpose so that the government can be viewed as a place of protection. The government can be viewed as that mythical mummy daddy figure that can take care of everything and make sure everything's okay. You just got to give a little more freedom away, just a little more.

So, so what happens when we wake up with no freedom left and all we have is this quote unquote security? Do we really have any of that security? I don't think so. I really don't think so.

I think all that happens is, is that we wake up with shackles and we, we sigh and say, ah, at least I'm safe. That's pathetic and scary, man. Pathetic and scary. Yeah, it's certainly the way it's going. Wrapped in cotton wool and inside a jail cell safe. We asked for it. Yeah,

it's, uh, it's very sad. Well, listen mate, um, I could literally stay here and shit on governments and no coiners and shit coiners and influencers and everything for the rest of my life. But I now have another mod in about, in about 10 minutes for our mining month, which I've got to jump on and

do a little bit of prep for, but it's been pretty good chatting to you, mate. We need to do it. Same here, man. So, uh, yeah, sorry about the technical issues that fucked us up a bit and lost some time, but, uh, yeah, it was really good. I really appreciate being on here. Don't forget to check out

ungovernable misfits. I got a shirt from them from you guys. I love the quality of, of the clothes that you're doing. I love the, uh, the site that you have going on. And I hope to see more material out of ungovernable misfits.com. And I really appreciate it. And of course, don't forget to check

us out on the pleb underground that's pleb underground.com or on Twitter at pleb underground. Nice one, mate. And yeah, I hope that shirt is fitting well. Oh, amazing. Which one was it we did for you again? I can't even remember now. It's the, uh, it's the bad rat. Oh, the bad rat mining one.

I love it. I love it. Yeah. Thank you so much. No worries, mate. All right. We'll catch up soon. And yeah, everyone go and check. What do you call it? A podcast or a show? Check your show.

It's a YouTube. Yeah, it's a YouTube show and it's called pleb underground. Put the link in the show notes as well. Okay, great. Cheers, mate. We'll chat soon. Take it easy. Thanks, everyone, for listening. Thank you to everyone who has been streaming Sats and giving feedback,

sharing with friends and family and everything else that you've been doing to support this show. It's incredible to see. If you haven't checked out our website yet, go to ungovernable misfits dot com. We have clothing, articles, podcasts, fudbusters and much more. Also, make sure you

don't miss the mining month. It is coming up for the whole of September. Every single day, there will be content. There will be prizes and much more. Keep an eye out and good luck.