Bitcoin, seeds and carnivore diet with Alex Flood

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.

Let's go!

Now, what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison. Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right, you ungovernable misfits. I'm your host, Max. Everybody knows that Bitcoin is useless, worthless, and doomed to fail. But what if everyone's wrong? What if it's the system that is doomed to fail?

Join me as I speak to some of the brightest people in the space and deliver to the deepest, darkest depths of the Bitcoin rabbit hole.

Welcome back, everyone. I got to sit down with Alex Flood, a brick-coiner who's been working on the seed jig. We talked about seed-stamping, carnivore diets, and the crazy clown world that orange-pilled him.

I really enjoyed this conversation, and I strongly suggest you follow him on Twitter and check out the seed-jig project. I want to say thank you to everyone who's been buying the merch on ungovernable misfits.com.

And for everyone who's been streaming Sats and sending in questions, I really do appreciate it. It's always great to hear from you guys. I'd also like to thank my sponsors. First up, Foundation Devices.

Foundation Devices make the best hardware in the Bitcoin space. I love the design. I love that it's fully open source. The QR scanning is incredible. And with so many features and such an awesome team, the only way is up for Foundation Devices.

If you haven't already seen the passport, I suggest you go to foundationdevices.com and check that out. You can also listen to the previous shows I've done with Zach, CEO, and Q&A. You can use my code bit by bit to get $10 off your purchase.

And you can also reach out and ask me any questions. They are my sponsors, but I will be brutally honest. Next, we have Casa. Casa make multi-six so simple. Literally, any fuck week can do it.

Myself included. I've been doing this for about 18 months now. And it's really good service. I love the UX. And yes, you can do this stuff yourself, but not everyone has the time or the expertise.

And if you have a friend or family member who maybe isn't so technical, they can set this up from as little as $10 a month. They can also get an additional 10% off if they use the code bit by bit 10.

And you can check them out at keys.casa. Again, you can reach out to me and you can ask me any questions or about the trade-offs. There are trade-offs with everything. I'll answer any questions I can, and if there's anything I'm not 100% sure on, I can direct you towards the team.

Keys.casa and the code bit by bit 10. And finally, fast Bitcoins. After listening to this show, you will know all about stamping your seeds, how to do it and why it's so important. But there's not a lot of point in doing that if you don't have any sats already.

I push hard on this show for everyone to do things okay, what I see, or to mine at home. But not everyone's able to, or not everyone has the time to, or some of you just do not care. You just want those sats.

And if you want to get those sats quickly, easily, and from almost any country in the world, you can use fast Bitcoins. The one thing I really love about this team is that they push users to get their sats off exchange as soon as possible.

They were also one of the first teams to start using lightning withdrawals, and they are always at the bleeding edge. Again, if you want to reach out and ask me about the trade-offs, if you want to reach out and ask me any questions, or just be put in touch with the team, do that, you can email me, or you can contact me on Twitter.

I really hope you enjoy the show, and if you find it useful, please do subscribe, like, and send it to friends and family.

Alex, how are you doing, mate? I'm very good, Max. How are you? Yeah, good. Can you hear me okay? Is everything working? This would be very rare if it is. A little bit too well, actually.

I'm going to turn you down a bit. That was... Can you hear me okay? Yeah, that's all coming through. Fine. Yeah, well, nice to have you on, mate. It's coming through very nicely. This is the new mic, is it?

Yeah, yeah. What did you go for? It's very good. It's a audio technica, ATR something or other. ATR2100X. I don't know that one, but it sounds good. Yeah, it plugs into the USB. That's the easy thing to do.

I remember when I first started this podcast, like, I'm not technical or useful at this sort of stuff, so I asked him, mate, I was like, I am thinking of starting this podcast, like, what do I do?

And he was like, oh, you need to buy this Berenger mixing deck and all this different stuff, and then two different mics. It wasn't expensive. It was like shit quality stuff, which you'll hear from, like, early recordings, but I had, like, a desk full of equipment, and, like, I just thought that's what I needed.

Yeah. And the sound quality was shit anyway, and then I finally... I can't remember who mentioned it to me. It might have been Princey or... I can't remember now. Someone said, I don't use any of that.

I just use this Yeti Blue thing. I looked it up. I was like, you literally just plugged that into the laptop. They're like, yeah, that's all you need. It's so much more simple. Yeah, yeah.

Well, I guess podcasting is such a big thing now. There's lots of stuff to make it easy. It's crazy, isn't it? Like, compared to, sort of, five, ten years ago, how much has exploded, and it's brilliant for people like me who don't particularly like reading.

Like, I like the audio. That's kind of why, one of the reasons I start this was, like, I get to talk to people, whereas I think a lot of people in the Bitcoin space, they like to read and type and do the chat rooms and stuff like that, but I don't know how you find that, but certainly for me, I find that a bit difficult.

Yeah, I kind of... I sort of, in terms of content consumption, I sort of... I go through binges with podcasts, so I'll go through, like, a really heavy, like, two or three months of just listening to podcasts 24/7 and then stopping for a bit and then doing some read.

I sort of jumped from one thing to another, but I think there's a place for it all, isn't there? Yeah, it's the passive, like, being able to drive and listen to a podcast. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, yeah, when I'm at work in the workshop, 'cause often I'm just doing some sort of task which doesn't require too many decisions to be made, sort of just kind of chugging along doing something, and that's perfect for putting a podcast in.

Yeah, that's the best time, isn't it? 'Cause it's dead time. You can't do anything else, and it's either that or you listen to music. Yeah, kind of, you're not even really thinking about it.

It's just, like, seeping in. I love that. I love... 'Cause I don't listen to that many podcasts anymore. The time I'll do is when I'm driving, and it's just like, "Yes, I am so sad." Yeah, yeah.

I'm like, "Yes, I've got a five-hour drive today." Right. I'm exactly the same. It feels like a real treat. Yeah. It's made me love driving most of the time. Just sticking a good pod up. Exactly.

And so, obviously, you know, I've got you here for a reason. You just mentioned the workshop, but I guess it's a good time for me to do a bit of an intro. Yeah, yeah. I came across your seat jig very early, I think, like, the first post or something.

I saw it, and I was like, "That's really fucking cool." And then I know that you, obviously, your friends were self-banked and meet up with him and a couple of other people that I know. And they also mentioned it to me.

And I was like, "Yeah, yeah, I'm sure I've seen that." I was like, "Oh, yeah, there it is." And, yeah, then, obviously, reached out to you and just said, "Look, this is really nice-looking, really high-end, nice-quality bit of kit."

And I really think it's important. Like, it's the one time where we can sort of do something physical with Bitcoin, and I think for a lot of people, having that kind of knowledge that you can have, something stamped into steel, stamped and hidden somewhere physical is really, really important to a lot of people.

And to be able to do that without losing fingers and fucking around with some of the, I mean, I've done, I've done a fair bit of it, and doing it all by hand without anything else is very, very slow, very tedious.

And, yeah, there's a couple of times where I've got close-losing fingers smashing things with a hammer. So, what was it that made you decide to build this? Do you already attempted doing it yourself?

We just thought, "Right, I want something better." Or, "Yeah, how did it come about?" Yeah, so, when I was going about my thought process for how to back up my keys, I did a lot of research.

I like to research things, which is why I like Bitcoin. Which is why I like Bitcoin, I think. And I saw the BlockMIT product, the 3D printed, the little jig, plastic jig, which kind of like indexes the stamp.

So, essentially the same, it serves the same function as the seed jig that I've designed. And I thought, "That's neat, but I just hate plastic stuff." Like, I've always, so, my background is in metalworking and design.

And I really like making tools. I absolutely love making tools. So, I make a lot of stuff for my own workshop. I get a real kick out of that for some reason. And so, I thought I can design a better one of these BlockMits.

And so, I wanted to design one that was just very pure and simple. Like, it served the function and there wasn't any kind of super-fluous design features. So, yeah, I just wanted to solve the problem for myself to begin with.

Because, so I didn't have a 3D printed, printed BlockMIT. But I do have a workshop where I can make stuff out of metal. So, yeah, I just sort of set about thinking how I would do it. And, yeah, it's been a very long process, as always.

It's quite a simple, simple function that has to be fulfilled for this tool. I think the most important thing is, it's got to be pleasurable to use. I think that's one key, key important factor.

Because, I think when you're stamping your keys into a more permanent medium, it's kind of like quite a ritualistic activity. And so, I wanted to design something that felt nice to use. Like, very positive parts that fit together and slide together smoothly and locate nicely.

And, yeah, it had to be easy to use. And, I went out and tried. And durable as well as the other thing. Yeah, so that's one of the downsides of the BlockMIT. Is that it's plastic. And I was chatting to self-banked, actually.

I think the first time I met him. And, yeah, he was saying that he'd used one of those. And, it basically just like started to fall apart very quickly. Because it was quite sort of quite fragile design.

And then the other downside to it is that you have to buy like a third party or kind of anvil to fit underneath it. So, you're going to have to buy something anyway. So, if you're going to have to do that, you might as well buy something that's purpose-built for the job, I guess.

Yeah, does that answer your question? Yeah, yeah, definitely. And looking at the website, it looks very robust. And, you know, like we said, there is very ritualistic. I think it is a really important moment for anyone.

Even if you've done it a few times before, it's really important time where I'll put upside a load of time where there's no family, no one around, I'll turn my phone off, I'll be in a certain setting with a certain mind frame and nothing can distract me.

I just spend the time and check and double check and triple check and quadruple check and make sure that what I've stamped is correct and that everything is clear and that everything is done correctly.

And so, if you're going to do that and be methodical, then you need a tool that you can do that with. And so, yeah, you don't want to be halfway through and then something breaks because it's made of plastic and then you think, "Oh, fucking hell, now what am I going to do?"

You really want something that's good quality. And the other thing is, I make seeds all the time. I'm always messing around with new hardware if I'm testing it or sending friends and family up with the new wallet and messing around and you see them writing their seed words on the back of a napkin, not really paying attention.

You just think, "No, this is not the way I want you to do this." So, if you have one of these things, you can presumably, well, I'm not presumably, you can. You can share this with people and make sure things are done correctly.

Yeah, exactly. The thing that so attracted me to this kind of protocol of using washers is the fact that you can buy these washers pretty much anywhere and they're really, really cheap. So, once you've got the actual tool itself, you can make as many seeds as you like for very little additional cost.

And so, because I was looking into buying those, you've got all those different stainless steel cards with the grid on them, with the letter and you punch them. I'm not talking about the QR code.

I mean, you're actually punching letters. Yeah, yeah. It's like a grid thing. And that just, it just seems so kind of illegible to look at it. I think it would just be so easy to make a mistake with that, whereas I think that using actual letter stamps is so easy to kind of check, check and double check it.

It just makes the whole kind of the whole thing like a much more sort of positive experience. It's just easier to get it right, I think, with letters. And also, they just look so inconspicuous, like a stack of washers.

You can hide that in all sorts of ways, like even kind of in plain sight. I sort of consider just having a box of nuts and bolts with my washers stack in there, just like knocking around in some like utility cupboard in the house.

No one's going to, if anyone broke into your house, you know, they'd see that and they wouldn't think anything, would they? Well, exactly. And the other nice thing about using the washers is, I don't know if you've read, is a kind of alchemist, I think, who did a long write-up on this,

and he was comparing all of the different options and, you know, doing tests against fire and all this sort of stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They came up as just as good or better than most of the other options for one.

So it's not like, okay, by using the washers, you're not going to secure your seed as well. It actually holds up really, really well. The other thing is, like you said, you can do as many as you want, and it's inconspicuous, and no one has to know when you're making another seed,

because, you know, if you go and order something, which is specifically made to stamp your seed, then someone, you're ordering it from somewhere, and they obviously know that that's what you're doing.

Whereas you go to a hardware shop or all of these online, no one knows what you're doing. And like you say, people see them all the time, so they just think, oh, well, it's just some washers.

So I really like that aspect to it. And also, I always like to do multiple copies of everything, and then also a passphrase on top. So suddenly you're thinking about, well, okay, if I want two copies or even three copies, and then I want a passphrase, and then maybe I've got two or three different wallets,

then it's like, how many of these things am I having to order? It suddenly starts costing me more than your Bitcoin stacked it in the first place, especially for people who first come again.

So it's really nice to have that as a standard. I see that more and more people are doing it. And yeah, I think you can be really creative with the way that you hide these. There are so many different ways.

And I think what's really interesting is when you start speaking to people who aren't involved in Bitcoin for too long or aren't that technical, they understand how to hide something in the physical realm, not so much digitally.

I don't think I'm alone there. I think a lot of people feel much more comfortable having that physical thing. Yeah, I agree. I think so many aspects of Bitcoin, like the way you interact with it, as a kind of non-tech person, it's just so confused.

Like, there's so much that we don't understand. And there's so many potential pitfalls to fall into because of the digital nature of it. It's nice to have something physical like that, which is a bit easier to understand.

Obviously, you still have to take care of all the digital stuff as well. But yeah, I like the idea of having all of my Sats in a wallet stored on with the key backed up into stainless steel washers.

And then you can just delete everything else. Like, for your kind of long-term, your long-term stack. Yeah, your deep, cold stories. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's quite appealing. Yeah, I completely agree.

You said you like making tools and, you know, you work in a workshop doing metal work. Is it something that you've also been messing around with, like, tech side of things as well? Like, how's it been for you getting into this sort of more techie world?

I kind of, I quite enjoy it. I like learning about this stuff. I think I'm quite good at teaching myself things or at least following instructions and then kind of learning. I like learning about how stuff works.

So, yeah, I don't have any clue with, I'm not really very good with computers. I can't do programming or anything like that. But I do like learning about that stuff as well. So, yeah, it's fun.

Like, I like big fan of the BISC exchange. That was fun, like, getting my head around how that worked and setting up Bitcoin core on my computer. And, yeah, that sort of stuff is... I've got so much to learn.

I mean, I know we all have even, like... We all do, yeah. Yeah, but it's fun to do. But I'm also, the more I try and dive into this stuff, it just makes you realize how early we still are.

Because I'm sort of, I kind of, like, tread the boundary between, like, being totally, like, none techie and then having a little bit of sort of tech knowledge. That's kind of where I am.

And it takes me, I think, I'm reasonably competent at kind of learning stuff. Yeah, it's still, so much of it is still so incomprehensible. So, like, when I've helped friends kind of set them up, like, this morning, actually, I was helping a friend.

I set her up with a cold card. And we got her thing set up and we, like, stamped her seed phrase and everything. And that was sometime last year. And she wanted me to help her again. Sort of work out actually how to kind of send the Bitcoin and interact with it a bit more.

So, I went over there and helped her with it this morning. And it just really brought it home to me, just how, still how early we are. Because some of this stuff is still very difficult. And I'm curious to see how Bitcoin matures.

And the sort of user interface becomes more accessible for people. Obviously, there's always going to be a trade-off between sort of accessibility and then privacy and all that sort of stuff.

So. Yeah, that's the big trade-off I find. I mean, it's definitely got a lot easier, especially over the last couple of years. And then it's just kind of deciding what's most important to somebody.

And so, I always, like, I always approach things on an individual basis depending on who I'm dealing with. So, like, some people, I will know what they want this for really is cash. They want it so that no one can touch it.

No one can go near it. They don't want it tracked. They don't want it traced. They want this to replace cash for them. The way that I'm going to introduce that person is so different to somebody who's coming at it from a purely like, I want to invest.

You know, I think that this thing is going to become more valuable and that's what I care about. So, you know, that's where it's kind of, it's still, there's still different products for different things.

So, like, you know, someone who cares about the privacy side, then I'll say, okay, well, you want to get a samurai wallet. You want to run Ronan Dojo and we set you up. I'll go through all of this.

Or if it's someone who's just like, I want to do the investment stuff, but then maybe they might say, I've heard about this lightning thing. I want to play around with that. Then, you know, you need to push them in a different direction.

There's no one size fits all option out there. And then there's like, sometimes for the really simple stuff, it's like, okay, if someone wants just a node and they want it to be simple, simple, simple, then there's other options there as well.

So, it's kind of like picking the person that you're dealing with and then deciding from there is, it is the most important bit. And I don't know if we ever really get a one size fits all kind of option because everything seems to be pulling in different directions.

You have different factions within Bitcoin that care about different things and they're all pulling in very, very different directions. So, I guess the first thing is just getting people to take their sets off exchange or understand at least that they should earn them instead of buy them.

Or use BISC, like you said, that's, you know, obviously a really good option as well. And just get them to understand that, right, once you've stamped these seeds into metal and you make sure that you look after this thing, like, that's yours.

It doesn't matter what war there is. It doesn't matter what problems there are in the world. It doesn't matter if someone doesn't like you or you've said something, they think you shouldn't.

Like, they are your sat and no one can fucking touch them. And I think a big thing is when people go and restore a wallet, when they're like, you know, if they freak out, they're like, "Oh, I've lost my phone.

Oh, I don't know what to do." Or, I've lost, you know, I'm sure you've had that a couple of times when people say into that tune. And then you're like, right, you know, those words that we stamped?

Yeah, okay. And you take them through the next step and they're like, "Oh my God, how the fuck has that just happened?" Like, they feel the power of Bitcoin and like, that's a real... I think for a lot of people, once they've done that and recovered, they go, "Oh, I get it.

I see why this is so amazing." Yeah, that is a magic moment, isn't it? It feels like magic when you restore a wallet from a seed phrase because you've got this thing on a piece of paper and, yeah, it just feels like magic.

It is magic. It is magic and there are magicians. You know, we're talking about there's so much we don't understand. It's like, we never will. We're never going to understand some of the stuff that makes this thing work.

We're never going to understand what some of these incredible devs are doing behind the scenes. We just know that it does work and what that allows us to do is just beyond most people's imagination.

It's just so exciting. Even just like, something that basic is so exciting. And even when you break it down to something like, "Oh, I can send a lightning payment. I can get this final settlement. I can do that anywhere in the world."

How? How the fuck is that possible? You know, obviously we get it to some extent, but it is... No matter how many times you do it, it is mind-blowing. And, yeah, to see how that's going to change society is going to be...

I hope it happens in our lifetimes. I don't know that it will, that I guess we'll find out. But, yeah, I mean, what's your thoughts on all of that and where are you feeling that this thing's going?

Where are you hoping that it's going? Well, obviously, every day I wake up and I just think the world is... Everything feels like it's falling apart, doesn't it? It's just a complete shit-shoe.

And it is becoming clearer every day, sort of scarily clear. Recently, I think yesterday I listened to the latest Preston Pish's podcast with Laurence Lapard, talking about the sort of...

The investors' podcast one, is it? That's the one, yeah, yeah. He was pretty certain we're heading for hyperinflation within the next two to eight years, I think he said. Yeah, sounds about right.

I think it's quite a high sort of mathematical probability, just because of the mathematics of it. There's no way out of this situation. Yeah, and that was a real... that was scary. And it's funny how thinking about how my views on this have developed slightly, because I remember listening to Jeff Booth maybe like a year or two ago,

and he was saying Bitcoin, like he thinks the current financial system is going to collapse, is going to have to die, and he doesn't see any other viable system apart from Bitcoin, and he thinks it will be Bitcoin.

That kind of takes over, essentially. And I remember thinking, I agree with you, sort of... I really want to agree with you, but I didn't quite believe it myself then at that point. I knew how it still felt so early, too early to make that call.

But now, when I think about him saying those things, it just seems more and more prophetic, because there just doesn't seem to be anything else, any alternative apart from Bitcoin. It seems like the perfect solution, almost, to the problem of the crumbling global financial system.

Things have accelerated somewhat. I think that's probably why, if you're listening to that a year ago, two years ago, pre-COVID and all that sort of nonsense, you're probably thinking, like many people, "Yeah, okay, maybe, but maybe 10 years, 20 years, it's going to happen, but I'm not sure when exactly."

Yeah, yeah. And things have really sped up. These last couple of years have been, like you said, just so fucking crazy. And it's so clear that they have no control over what's going on now, that even the norm is waking up.

Even 2017, 2018, when I was running around, really excited, telling everyone, "Bitcoin's going to be a million pounds, I'm telling you why, because both are running around like a nutter."

And everyone was like, "Will you shut up? Don't be so stupid." "That's going to happen, it's going to happen." There's same people when I say it to them now, they're like, "I mean, maybe, yeah."

And they'll have some other obstacle in the way of why it can't happen. But it's not laughed at anymore, I'm not the lunatic anymore. It's like, "Yeah, yeah, I mean, maybe." And that's a couple of years.

It's amazing how people, just the average person's perception of it, changes. And they're people who know nothing about Bitcoin. They literally, they know the name, they don't understand anything else about it.

And so if those sort of normal people are starting to come round, you can feel this shift. And I think a lot of it is just down to this mistrust of the governments around the world, the banks around the world.

And even the real, like, I don't know what you call them, like super normies, like the people who just watch the news all day long. And I don't know what you can call them. But those people, even them, I think, are starting to wake up.

Because they're going to... Yeah, petrol pumps, and it's £1.80 a litre, is this fucking ridiculous? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's just, well, our leaders have given us so much reason to mistrust them.

I mean, a real catalyst for me was the whole COVID thing. That's, yeah, completely changed my mindset. I don't, I didn't really, it's awakened a sort of real kind of libertarianism in me that I didn't see there before.

And, yeah, just, yeah, it's crazy. The cracks are just showing, aren't they? It's clear that there's no one really in steering the ship very well. Yeah, or if they are, they're very drunk and asleep.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is worrying. So, was that something that brought you into Bitcoin then? Were you all ready? Are you like, "Oh, this looks a bit fucked." So, I was interested, I got interested in Bitcoin in 2017.

I think it was around September or October 2017. Because friend told me about it, and she was like, "Oh, this is pretty cool." So, she was Argentinian. And so her parents are also US citizens.

Anyway, they had to get some money out of Argentina and get it to the US. And obviously, because of the capital controls in Argentina, it was impossible. So, they ended up sending it over with Bitcoin.

So, she was telling me about Bitcoin and how cool it was. And I just kind of started looking at it and I just got absolutely hooked. And back then, I was indiscriminate as well. I was going to all the shit coins as well, started trading it.

And I can remember trading Litecoin and Cardano, buying all that stuff. I was just looking at it as a get rich quick scheme. But I found it very, all the technology very intriguing as well.

So, that was my kind of first touch point. And then obviously, that was a tail end of the bull market in 2017. So, yeah, it was quite intoxicating, seeing number go up so fast. And then obviously, had to deal with the reality of it coming crashing back down again.

But I kind of stuck with it for the following two or three years, always kind of paying attention to it. But I didn't quite understand the significance of the technology. And I didn't have a kind of sense of mistrust in the system back then.

And so it kind of, it was always out of the back of my mind, but I didn't really fall down the rabbit hole at that point. I think my thinking evolved, I had a kind of glimpse behind the curtain, which really changed how I started thinking about the world.

And that came in the form of, so basically I got quite ill in 2016 with autoimmune disease, which affects my nervous system. I basically started losing the use of my hands. And so from that point, I started researching what can I do to try and help this condition.

So the first thing I started looking into was diet. And I went down this rabbit hole of paleo diet and all that sort of stuff, and was experimenting with all that for a couple of years. But nothing really helped until I, in a kind of last, felt like I had nothing to lose, I felt like I tried everything

and had nothing to lose at that point. And I'd been hearing about this carnivore diet, meat-only diet. And I started reading about that more and realizing that a lot of the kind of theory behind it made quite a lot of sense.

And so I decided to give it a try, and I had such a dramatic reaction to it, positive reaction. Loads of my symptoms just like completely evaporated. I had like, I'd had really bad kind of like depression and fatigue and stuff, and that just like evaporated overnight.

And so that was my kind of first sort of, I think that was the kind of peak behind the curtain, because I realized that what I was doing was a complete opposite of the kind of mainstream medical advice, like red meat is apparently killing us and giving us all heart disease.

And here I was like eating only, literally only red meat, and it made me feel better than I'd felt since I was a child. And so I was like, whoa, if I was so wrong about that before, what else am I wrong about?

And so that was a kind of just a sort of, yeah, like a sort of red pill moment, I guess. And then once you start thinking in that way, you start looking for these things everywhere. And so when COVID hit, and all of the markets tanked in March 2020, I was like, I need to start looking into Bitcoin again properly,

and I need to figure out how all of this stuff works. And not just Bitcoin, I mean, like the globe, like I didn't know anything about finance. So that's when I went completely down the rabbit hole.

And yeah, just started looking, trying to, I remember watching the Ray Dalio video, like how the economic machine works. I watched that like five times, trying to understand everything. And then, yeah, it's just, it was just so fascinating.

And that time was like, I can remember just being in a frenzy, just like I had no mental space for anything else. All I wanted to do was study all this stuff. Yeah, and then that's when I realized everything was just a shot.

It was like all a skip big scam, isn't it? Yeah, it definitely lifts the curtain and reveals to you that there's a lot of bullshit and that most things are a lie or just wrong. And there's logical inconsistencies everywhere.

But what's interesting is like, you just told me that story about, you know, obviously autoimmune issues and taking the time to do your own research. I think what separates a lot of Bitcoiners from other people is you obviously had, even if it's not mistrust, you took it upon yourself to put the work in,

put the time in to try and work out yourself. You didn't just leave that for somebody else and just say, oh, well, a doctor's obviously going to know better than me. So that's step one, and then obviously you've tried things.

You've actually thought, well, I'm just going to think outside the box. I'm going to give things a go. And then you found something that's worked that obviously it goes completely counter to what everyone else thinks.

And I think once you've done that and you've experienced that with one thing, it just, it means you want to do it for everything. Yeah, yeah, that's it. It's like, with me, I come into Bitcoin more from like the anarchist side, not trusting the finance side.

Yeah, it made sense to me relatively quickly. I already had a massive mistrust in the establishment and the system. And so that side made sense. But the other things that you're talking about, like the diet side and a lot of the other things that go along with it,

Bitcoin's led me down those rabbit holes because Bitcoiners are very, very open to just being like, well, no, don't trust verify. Like just because someone says something doesn't mean it's true.

And that meant that when COVID rolled around, I was like, well, the mainstream are saying it, which means it's probably wrong. Not definitely, but it probably wrong. And so now let's start researching and very quickly you go, okay, no, this is about control.

The more you do it, the more you sort of go through this process, I think the quicker you can unravel the bullshit. And generally it all comes back to what's the incentive and who stands to gain from this narrative.

And once you start to look at it like that, you can very quickly work this stuff out. But it doesn't make you very popular, I imagine, with your family and friends and everyone else around you, unless you're really good at orange building.

No, no, that's a problem, isn't it? I remember when I was in peak Bitcoin frenzy mode. It's like all I wanted, well, we've all seen the memes. It's all I could talk about because every subject touches it.

And it's so easy. It's just like one or two hops away from every single, any single complaint anyone makes about anything. Bar the weather, maybe. It just demands you to tell them why it's all downstream of the global, the fucked up global financial system.

I've stopped attempting to orange pill with such vigor now, because I'm sort of retreating a little bit from being a Bitcoin maniac in public. Because you can't push people, can you? It's a kind of pool thing.

You can lead a horse to water and all that. So yeah, I've had some successes. But yeah. I think that's a good approach. I mean, for a few reasons. One, offset, you don't want to go around shouting to everyone that you're a Bitcoin.

Two, it's probably a good idea to just pick the people that you know a line. So like, when I have friends or friends or family members who are like Marxist-type thinking, loony, blue-haired, fucks, and they're talking to me, I will never mention Bitcoin.

Like, I actually want you to have fun staying poor. I actually don't want you or your stupid ideas anywhere near this beautiful system. But if I find someone who is like freedom-loving, generally leaves people alone, doesn't interfere with anyone's lives, is a good person.

I just see like, do you know what? This person's like struggling a bit in life because inflation's fucking everyone over and life's pretty hard and they're a good person. Then I'll think, right, it's worth my time here.

A likely shill. And that's as far as it goes now. But I know that feeling. I know that frenzy. I know that kind of like running around at the beginning. Because you genuinely think like, I mean, not you think.

I mean, you found the answer to a lot of massive problems in the world. Yeah. It's quite simple, isn't it? And you're like, I've got the key. I've got the key. We can fucking say very well.

And everyone's like, no, shut up. I want to talk about Will Smith slapping someone or fucking whatever else the shit is going on. You're just like, well, fine. All right, then. Yeah. This is my second experience of this sensation as well.

Because the same thing happened to me when I discovered the meat diet. Because I had such a profound reaction to it. There's all that anyone sort of brought up any kind of health complaint in passing.

I was like, that's all I wanted to talk about. So obviously that doesn't go down too well either with most people. So I had to learn to suppress that. Are you still on this diet? Are you still full calm?

Yeah. Yeah. I've been doing it for like three years now. Yeah. It's incredible. Yeah. So talk me through that. Like you obviously tried it out and you felt better. You said almost immediately.

Have you ever tried coming off it and what's the experience being like? Or do you just feel so good on it that you think or why? Why would I? A little bit of a combination of the two. I was really, really strict for two years at least.

And then so I still have, I had loads of health problems that are like completely resolved with it. So I've almost overnight. But then I have some lingering symptoms which are just improving much more slowly.

Like I've got a lot of nerve damage in my arms. Which is improving like very slowly. But it's definitely getting better. And so I like testing stuff. And yeah, I do kind of test the boundaries.

Most of the time I'm pretty strict. But then I will go in a little like I'll sort of pick a food and then kind of eat quite a lot of it over sort of every day for a few days and then see what the reaction is.

So like recently I did an experiment with blueberries. Blueberries seem to be pretty fine. Okay. But I also, I recently I did a croissant experiment. Mostly because I found this amazing bakery near where I live and I just felt like I had to have a taste.

And it turns out that if I cross on it's every day for like five days, it fucks me up. We're not going to do that anymore. And so like you said only red meat. Is that still something you stick to?

Pretty much. I mean, I eat all of the meats really. But yeah, mostly red meat. Red meat and pork. Sometimes fish. But mostly like really high fat. So we eat loads of fat because it's a ketogenic diet.

And that's quite important. But yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty crazy. I hear so many good things. I mean, my personal experience from it is like if I do, especially if I'm training and I drop down to like very, very low carb or basically no carb high quantities of protein like meat, fish, eggs, all the rest of it.

And then I have like I've never gone full carnivore, but I've gone like basically carnivore and then like a little bit of greens like I'd have, you know, broccoli or spinach or something like that with it.

And my personal experience is like pretty good energy dropped loads of fat. Like just absolutely shreds off you. Not changing anything in my training and not changing anything else in my lifestyle.

It just fucking falls off you. It's ridiculous. And no real downside other than it's really expensive, especially if you want good quality meat. Like I eat quite a lot.

So that's the one thing where I'm like, when I'm cutting out rice, for example, which is like a big part of my diet usually, then suddenly I'm like, okay, well I now want sort of twice as much of the meat.

And then therefore it's really expensive for a rice like basically cause fuck all. And then you see like, I could have stacked another 10,000 sats, you know, you're looking at everything in that respect.

But that's obviously very different to me. I don't have auto immune issues. And so like in your position and what you were going through, like to find something like this that wasn't offered from doctors or anyone that you're speaking to, and which seems to help so many people.

It's crazy that it's not more mainstream. Like you're saying, this is like the key to help a lot of people. And it's ignored. Do you think that's like a lot of it's down to this kind of like fucking vegan push?

And like, I'm going to save the world because of cow farts or like, what do you think it's down to? Yeah, I think that's a really big part of it. I think it's definitely an ideological push against meat.

And there's quite a interesting history when you look into sort of public health advice regarding meat consumption and how that, where that advice came from, what type of data is backing it up.

And who are the parties who are pushing that information. And this is kind of where a lot of people think I'm being a conspiracy theorist, but there's a massive, the seventh day Adventist church has got a huge amount of influence over dietary guidelines.

And they are a essentially a vegan group of sort of vegan religious group. I think they own, I think they're one of the largest, they own more schools than any other body in the world kind of globally.

And I think they fund a couple of universities like this Loma Linda University, I think, and then there's another one. I think the Harvard school of one of the Harvard schools, which does a lot of kind of diet research is quite heavily influenced by them.

I can't remember the specifics, but yeah, they own like a lot of these like massive food conglomerates who obviously it's in their best interest to push these kind of sort of vegetable plant based diets because they're extremely profitable, like they're turning.

I mean, I know Safedines talked a lot about this, Fiat food and all that stuff. He had a great guest on his show Neena Tychaltz, she has done a lot of research into the kind of the history of dietary guidelines and all that stuff and how it's all just based on absolute junk science to push an agenda.

And that all kind of started in the early 1970s. So the Fiat era, yeah, and I definitely think there's a kind of, there is a strong, strong kind of relation there to the sort of the money system and the food system.

It certainly seems that way and maybe I'm even more conspiracy theorist. I also kind of think, well, well, I tell you, the reason I feel this way I'll just start with is I've tried being a vegan, I tried it for I think it's about a month maybe.

And so my personal experience with being a vegan was I felt really, really fucking weak and tired, like really weak. I'd go into the gym and I was just like, oh, fucking, I feel like I really feel weak.

I can't do anything. I'd maybe get like half as much of a workout done, like couldn't lift anything. I felt tired afterwards. And in the end, I just thought, no fact, this just isn't for me. I just thought, you know, but I want to try it just to see.

So I'm kind of thinking, well, not only is it profitable to push people towards a plant-based diet, but also it makes people weak.

And so if people are weak and also like there could be an argument to say that maybe you don't think quite as clearly. So if you're weak and you're not thinking as clearly, and you're just going along with whatever nonsense they're spouting about any other medical stuff,

my feeling is you're a lot easier to control. And so, yeah, okay, I'm a conspiracy theorist, but like, it feels like it's part of an agenda. And there's loads of agendas, and I won't get into all of them, obviously now, but it's like, it definitely feels like the main idea is more control, make the population weak and stupid.

Yeah, and on top of that, make them dependent on hyperprocessed food. Like, because there's an addictive quality to all these foods, like, so all kind of sugary snacks and like processed foods are addictive because they're highly satiating.

And you're addicted to something, you're dependent on it. But then also, if this kind of agenda to kind of make everyone more and more vegan, you're sort of creating more reliance on these ultra processed foods, which are produced in a factory, which is a kind of centralization of the food supply.

And so whoever owns the factory suddenly has more control over the population because that's where all their food is coming from. There's a real push to basically destroy the small farm all over the world.

I think it's slightly different here in the UK to what it's like in the US. I think we have smaller farms generally, and I think the same is true in places like France, they have much smaller farms even than us. But yeah, there is a kind of economic, I think it's becoming more and more difficult for small farms because they can't compete

just the sort of the market dynamics. It makes it very difficult to compete unless they're selling like direct to direct to consumer. Yeah, the fiat system is basically making it make it impossible to make a good living

as a small farm, I think, or making it very difficult. And I think that's a very dangerous place to go to as a society because we need more resilience in the food supply with more decentralization rather than a kind of centrally controlled ecosystem, which is just weak, isn't it?

Yeah, definitely. We'll have to offer, have a chat about this because I'm sort of considering more and more going towards like a car or car, or mainly kind of fuck's sake. Can you hear me now?

Yeah, yeah, you're back, yeah. Yeah, it's been cutting out a bit for me as well. I'm not sure why. And I was just saying maybe more of a conversation for offer, but we'll have to have a chat about sourcing meat and see if there's something that can be done between the UK and the UK.

That can be done between the UK Bitcoiners because I'm sure you've got some good sources to get some good quality meat.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think when thinking about the impending hyperinflation, since I listened to this conversation with Preston Pish and Laurence LePard, I think his name is, I've been thinking very, started to think very seriously about how I'm going to secure my meat supply into the future

and that's basically like keeping me functioning. And so, yeah, it's really clear we need to find resilient kind of, we need to create resilient sister.

I think that that will come as a result of this impending crisis. I think one of the positives will be, will be, will be able to much more like regenerative and resilient kind of supply chains and systems.

But I think it will get scary before that happens and that the scariness is what will catalyze it all. But yeah, I'd be happy to chat with you about that more if you want. Yeah, definitely. Well, this is obviously a Bitcoin podcast. We talked about meat and everything else.

But taking it back to what it is that you're doing and, yeah, back to CJ. Have you got a lot of contact with other Bitcoiners? Yeah, how's the whole process going? Because, you know, it's one thing building a really great product.

And then it's another thing, marketing it and getting it into people's hands and making them aware that it's available. How's the process going? Yeah, well, this has been a real learning curve for me because it's not my area of expertise.

I'm good at designing stuff and making stuff and thinking through the sort of manufacturing process. So I had a really, I was absolutely blown away, but when I first posted it, the first prototype, I got such positive response to it.

And it made me quite emotional, really, because I'd just been sort of working away at this thing on my own for quite a while and thinking about trying to iron out all of these design details and trying lots of different approaches, many of which just fail.

Or didn't work as I was expecting them to. And then I put it out there and, yeah, it kind of really kicked off. And so then I set up sort of refined the design some more and set up a website.

And now, so this currently open for basically pre selling the first batch. So I'm going to make a hundred in the first batch and I've actually started making them already. Yeah, so you can preorder it on cjig.com.

And yeah, I think I've sold 19 so far. So I've still got lots available. Yeah, need to kind of up the marketing a bit because that's, yeah, not my area of expertise. That's the hard bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's really hard to get people to know that it's available because you have so many people out there who want something just like this. It's just connecting you with that personal. I'm hoping that some people who are listening to this show will reach out to you and have a look at it.

It's going to be useful for a lot of Bitcoiners. I think one thing which would be really interesting is, especially for UK Bitcoiners, have you thought about the distribution of this thing for people who are particularly upset, heavy, and maybe you don't want to have something sent in the post or have you thought of any ways around it

where people can pay in sat or pay in person or anything like that? I love that. I think I got what you said. But maybe just repeat the last 10 seconds or so. Yeah, and I was just asking, is there any way for people with heavy upset to buy this without having to purchase with fear or give their details or anything like that?

Is there a way they could buy in person or some meetup or anything like that? So I have thought about that a little bit. I'm only accepting Bitcoin on the website, so there's that method, Bob, so you'd still have to give me a postal address.

But I am going to the Bitcoin educational day that's happening in Somerset. Okay, sometime in July, maybe, I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head, but I've been invited to go down to that.

So I will have a load of CJGs then, which you can buy with Bitcoin. I can't, what's the best way to distribute physical products without having a PO box or leaving it under a rock on the third field from the crossroads at a certain location?

Yeah, what's the best way? This is kind of the reason I ask, is I don't know if you've seen on my website now we're doing clothing. Because of the amount of people who listen to this show, I'd say most of them are very much more into privacy and security and they take this stuff pretty seriously.

And so with a lot of them, I'm sort of having to either, they give me their details via PGP and then only I can decrypt it, and then they're wanting to send payments through paintings and this kind of stuff.

But then we've still got the postage issues if they're abroad. Some people are asking, well, can I order it? And then when I see you at X meetup or whatever, then you pass it over to me so there's no actual details of any got their name.

Some people have asked that you just said like a dead drop, you know, you give a location, not for a t-shirt, but for other things, it's like, can I find a way of doing it without giving too many details a way that then need to be stored and could be leaked or hacked or anything else.

So with anything to do with Bitcoin, it's really difficult. But obviously with t-shirts, less so, with something like a seed jig, you know, the absolute ideal way is that someone sees you at a meetup or somewhere else.

They pay you directly in sat and they take the thing so that there's no details passed. That's the absolute perfect way, isn't it? So that's why I ask, it's just something to sort of think about and find a way to distribute either meetups or other things like that, or just through like the pleb network.

I mean, yeah, yeah. Even here in the UK, it's like, okay, if I want one, well, maybe I wouldn't want to immediately give my details to you, but then self-banks. I might say, or I may let me meet you down the pub.

You bring the thing, I'll pay you the sats. You know, he buys it off you and then I buy it off him or, you know, somewhere like that. So sometimes using these sort of personal networks is a good way around it.

Yeah. Well, we have a pretty active meetup in Bristol. So if anyone wants to travel to Bristol for our monthly meetup, I'd be more than happy to talk about it. I'm happy to hook you up. There we go.

And yeah, I like the, I'm sure there's meetups all over the country, aren't there? Do we have a sort of network of some sort of database of Bitcoin meetups? I don't know if there's a database, but it's fairly active.

It's getting busier, isn't it? There's more and more going on in the UK. And there's like an unofficial network of EU and UK plebs that interact all the time and help each other out all the time.

And I'm guessing it would be possible. But yeah, it's definitely, it's something that hasn't been cracked. I mean, I don't know really a way around like a perfect system, but definitely the less details we collect, the better, the more we can do in person, the better.

Yeah, another thing, slightly tangential, but I was, I was thinking about setting up some sort of system where I could almost like a sort of rental system, where I send C-JIG out into the world.

People can basically request to use it, get it sent to them, and then they can like pass it on to the next, the next person who wants to use it as a kind of like informal sort of like tool rental service.

Because now everyone's going to want to buy one straight away. I just thought I would be, or they may not buy one at all, not want to buy one. So, that's a good idea. It'd be almost like, you were around when the lightning torch was going around.

Yeah, I heard about that. I didn't really fully get to grips with what it was, but I saw it happening. Yeah, I'm just thinking like maybe something like that, where it would be, you know, you want someone to obviously pay something towards the rental.

But you don't, but you kind of want to rely on the trust network of pleb. So, you know, you could do something like, again, self-banked borrows it off you, and then maybe on the bottom of it, you could have a bit 47 address, or you could have something where people can send you the SATs, like a QR or a string.

Yeah, yeah. And people like donate almost. So, it's a trust-based thing. Yeah. And then self-banked might pass it to me, and then I can donate, and then I pass it to someone else, and they donate.

And also, it's like a nice bit of advertising for the quality of it. Because I think, you know, I can look at it through the website, and I can read the materials that it's made out of. And I'm like, okay, this is going to be a heavy, sturdy, decent bit of kit.

But until you get something in your hands, it's difficult to really appreciate it. So, this could be quite a nice way for you to get the word out there, I suppose. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it'd be a nice thing to do anyway, like, yeah, because I'd probably just set it up and just have sort of donations.

So, you can use it free if you want to, and then if you want to donate, you can. Yeah. I mean, I've got so much. I've got such an incredible education for free from people, like yourself, just putting out content.

So, it would be an honor to give something back in some small way. So... Well, I think it'd be really cool. Just working out the logistics. Definitely. Well, I'll put my thinking cap on, and if I come up with any ways of, like, passing it through, we can maybe map it a little bit of, like, who meets up with people on the regular,

and then where they could pass it, and it sort of work its way through the UK maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely be possible. But yeah, I think we've covered sort of most of the things I wanted to talk about with you.

I really love what you've done here. I think it's really, really quality. And, like I said, if there's any way that I can help get these in people's hands, just let me know. But can you do a bit of a chill of where people can find you on Twitter and the website and any info that maybe we didn't cover?

Yeah, yeah, so on Twitter, my name is Alex Flood. I have, I don't have a name. Didn't really think about that, but too late now. But there's also the handle "C-Jig" specifically for updates about the tool.

So that's, I think a seed_Jig. And then the website is www.C-Jig.com. So that's S-E-E-D-J-I-G.com. And yeah, you can pre-order from the first batch, so, which are currently being manufactured.

But the more orders I get, I'm currently at a loss, so I need to sell some more. So yeah, please buy one. That's my sophisticated marketing campaign there. That's much better than the wanky bullshit.

It's honest, and I think most people prefer that in this space. So I'll link everything in the show notes anyway and push anyone your way if I find them. But it's been a real pleasure getting to know you, mate.

And I'm sure we will meet in person. Maybe a Bristol meetup at some point or something like that. But if you just stay on the line for a minute just to make sure we get all the audio and all that kind of stuff.

And yeah, thanks for everything you're doing. Yeah, great, Max. Thanks for having me on. It's been a pleasure.