EP100 The kids aren't alright with @Coinicarus

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.

Let's go!

Now, what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison. Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero. Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!

Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! All right, you ungovernable misfits. I'm your host, Max. Everybody knows that Bitcoin is useless, worthless, and doomed to fail. But what if everyone's wrong?

What if it's the system that is doomed to fail? Join me as I speak to some of the brightest people in the world. Join me as I speak to everyone in the space and deliver to the deepest, darkest depths of the Bitcoin rabbit hole.

Welcome back, everyone. Today's episode is with Phil from Simply Bitcoin. I had him and Nico on the show maybe a month or two ago, but this one we've gone solo. I really enjoyed this conversation.

We talked about all sorts, and it was good to get to know him a little bit more. Before we dive in, I want to say thanks to CoinFoil UK for sponsoring the show. If you are in the UK and you're looking to stack satty the daily, weekly, or monthly, you can use the reference link in the show notes.

You'll get 30% discount on your fees. It's really, really easy, and they are releasing now an app as well to make onboarding even easier. First up is crypto cloaks, crypto cloaks are my new sponsors.

If you haven't checked them out, definitely go and have a look at their website, cryptocloaks.com. They've got all sorts of different products on there, everything for your Bitcoin needs, and also just a really fucking cool team.

Enjoy the show, and if anyone has any questions or wants to reach out, you know where you can find me, I'll be lurking on Twitter. Hey, can you hear me all right now? I can hear you perfectly sorry about that.

I was muted. No worries. It's spot on. Nice to speak to you again, mate. Yeah, no, it's great to talk to you too. This is awesome. Thank you very much for inviting me back for a chat. This time it's one on one, though.

That's it. Yeah, well, I really enjoyed our last chat. I thought after we'd recorded, I had a feeling that you are a real thinker. I just wanted to have a proper one on one chat and see what your thoughts are on what's going on at the moment, because now more than ever, things to me are seeming fucking crazy,

you know, exciting, crazy, and scary, crazy, and yeah, it's just a chance to sort of get to chat to you and see your thoughts on things. So yeah, thanks for coming on again. I appreciate it.

Cool, man. Yeah, no, I appreciate it. So first of all, we featured you for 21ism, both you guys. I hope you liked the feature page. I thought it looked really fucking cool. It was insane.

How was the experience? So for me, I mean, it's very humbling, you know, like I, you know, a lot of people, I don't know, like I'm not, you know, like I don't really think that, you know, necessarily what we do is that special, right?

Like I enjoy doing it because I enjoy doing it and I think Nico feels the same way. So you know, for you guys to put together that type of a feature was, you know, was really humbling, you know, like you took your time and it was so incredible, like the way that

you guys put everything together and the quotes and everything like that with the video and just like, I mean, 21ism man is so like that I am so bullish on, on what you guys are doing. I think it's so cool.

Thank you. I mean, all of that, the website and the layout, really, we have to say thank you to Mr. Crown for that. He, he is the wizard behind the keyboard and makes these things possible, but yeah, no, I appreciate that.

It's, it's our mission to get people on who we think are pushing the space forward. And that's obviously why we got you guys on and that you say you, you both don't think that you're doing anything special, but you're doing something really fucking clever, the

way that you are marketing this, the way that you are going to be getting more and more people in and funneling them towards truth. You know, it's really clever using the humor. It's really clever the way that you lay things out.

And it's just not something that I've really seen from anything other than shit coiners. And it's the way that we get people involved. So yeah, massive respect for the way that you're doing it.

Cool, man. Yeah. No, I really, I totally appreciate it. It's, you know what it is. It's, you know, for anyways, for me, it's, it's really about the fact that like, you know, when I, when I watch current media, right, it's, it's always meant to, you know, like

the whole thing about the suits, you know, like everybody, everybody dresses up in suits. And we have this, this brainwashing to, to think of these people as serious as trustworthy, even the colors, you write that they use, I mean, think about it, right?

Like the, you know, certain, I mean, you know, blue has a certain connotation, right? You know, gray has a certain connotation, you know, black, red, like all these colors, like they mean different things.

So it's interesting, right? Like they, they try to use this type of crap and it's all this subversive brainwashing to essentially create this idea that this source that you're watching can be trusted.

And that's kind of like always killed me. And instead, you know, we kind of suck that out, like, you know, um, you know, like a set there in my hoodie and, you know, and we, you know, we find, we find information that we think is interesting and we find news bits and, you know, the, the right, the Twitter,

the Twitter news and stuff like that that we find interesting and funny. And we post it and we talk about it. And it just, you know, like, it, not everything has to be a pissing contest, right?

Like it, it doesn't always have to be that I'm the smartest guy in the room, that you're the smartest guy in the room and that we're going to tell everyone how it is. Like, sometimes you just got to have fun with this stuff.

And this is what gets people engaged because a lot of times having those types of people, right? Even though they're very good because they're factually correct, it can be very off-putting, right?

It can be, you know, sometimes people will feel stupid and unfortunately, right? At the end of the day, most people don't like feeling stupid. So when you make a person feel stupid, they will usually shy away, you know, or pull back.

So in this case, right, we, it's, I, I consider it, you know, yes, we do provide good information, but it's also fairly low brow, right? And fun. And as a result, we don't make people feel stupid, um, unless you're a shit-coiner.

You're going to feel stupid, but, and you should, but if you, you know, if you're interested in Bitcoin, you're not going to feel stupid watching our show and you're going to be like, you know what?

This isn't so bad. Like I can get into this. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I completely agree with you. And what you were saying about the, um, the way that the brainwashing has been going on and the way that people trust these authority figures, people in suits and people who look clean car, people who people think they should trust.

And actually they're the last people on earth that you should be trusting. And this is what I really like about the Bitcoin culture is that people allow their ideas and their principles to do the talking and fuck everything else.

You know, everyone seems to be the same, you know, wearing a hoodie, not trying to, not trying to sort of show that you are trustworthy, you just allow people to learn that over time from what you're saying.

And I've never seen a time where this is more necessary. And I think, or I'm hoping that more and more people find your show and others out there where they go, oh, this is fucking refreshing, you know, like this is, this is nice.

We have to let the signal be the speech, right? And that's something that I learned in definitely in Bitcoin. I really never paid attention to this before Bitcoin. But you know, of course, initially when I first got in, right, we covered, you know, the rabbit hole story on the, on the other, the other interview with Nico, but, you know,

like there was a lot of shit coining and, and for me, like I, I didn't know any better. And even though I understood that Bitcoin was what it was, I was still naive enough to think that, you know, something else could just be a better answer based on some technological improvement, right?

And what happens is that this, this kind of fallacy comes, you know, like, when you look at technology, right, there's always a better computer, there's always a faster graphics card, there's always a faster CPU, right?

Like, like software just gets better. So you just assume that, okay, well, sure, this is old and now I'm going to go find this new shiny thing, but you don't, the key about Bitcoin is why Bitcoin, right?

Like that's, that's the whole key to it is why is Bitcoin Bitcoin? And then once you really learn and understand why Bitcoin is what it is, right? The immaculate, I mean, I know people don't like the term, but unfortunately it is a form of immaculate.

Yeah, exactly. I don't mind it. Bitcoin describes the situation as best as it could, immaculate conception, right? And it came out at a time, right, the, the, the chancellor on the brink of second bail out, right?

Indicating that, hey, that's it, the money printing is never going to stop. And we know exactly where this road leads. So Bitcoin was an actual answer to a societal problem that our money is bad.

Not everyone may be suffering from bad money, but it's bad. And at some point, it's going to catch up and the people that may not be suffering yet from the effects of bad money will eventually suffer from it because it doesn't spare anyone.

It may impact people at different times at different levels, but it won't spare anybody. So Bitcoin was the answer to that. And all these other shit coins, none of them are the answer to that.

Every single one of them is an imitator. Every single one of them is an affinity scam. And all they try to do is simply add bells and whistles to it. Okay. Like that, that's all it is. It's just bells and whistles.

None of these things answer a proper need that Bitcoin doesn't address. And the technology that they use, the reality is is that if that technology is useful, okay, then it could be ported onto a different layer in Bitcoin.

Or we have that proper base of value. You know? Yeah. And something that's unfuck-witherable, you know, and it really, you know, proof of work is very, very important. And just the way that the incentives have been lined up, it's so just incredibly well thought out.

But even now, even sitting here, you know, a few years in and dedicating all my time to Bitcoin, the shit that I'm seeing happening now is more crazy than I had expected. Just to be honest, like I knew governments were bad.

I knew that this shit was going to get a little bit dicey, but it seems to have accelerated a lot. And I seem to find myself, although I'm very, very confident in Bitcoin, I do seem to be finding myself more and more concerned about, well, even if this thing does work, which I'm sure that it will, what tactics are they going to use?

And what are they going to do with Bitcoiners? And how do we escape or create a world where it fits for us? Because you know, I was lucky enough to spend a weekend away on a Bitcoin camping trip last weekend.

It was fucking amazing. I don't get a cool team. It was so cool in Wales on the on the sea from just 30ish Bitcoiners, just having a good time barbecuing, talking about freedom, it was fucking awesome.

Oh, cool. I'm jealous. Yeah. I've seen a good way though. Jealous in a good way. Yeah. Yeah. It was so good. But it just reminded me, I just thought like this is what life's about like people's families were there.

Their dogs were there. They were just enjoying life. Nobody was being combative. If everyone was, you know, taking time to have decent meaningful conversations and everyone was there for freedom.

And I thought this is what life should be like. But where do we fit in society, the way it's going? And, you know, I wondered your thoughts on that, like, where are we going? What are we going to, what are we going to do?

You know, that's a really, that's a really interesting question. And of course, right, like anybody that, you know, sits and thing, I mean, I'm sure you think about this all the time you just mentioned it, right?

Like, I'm sure as you were sitting there with all those other Bitcoiners and having these conversations, you look at the, you know, you look at everyone and that's exactly what you think.

Like, how does this, you know, how does this continue and where does this go? So, you know what, I, I used to be a fairly pessimistic person when it came, I considered realism before Bitcoin, I, to me, I really had zero hope for humanity, to be honest.

And that, you know, that kind of, I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not, it's not to say, again, you know, that there aren't beautiful things, right? There are beautiful things. But I thought, like, as a, you know, society as a whole, knowing that money is broken everywhere,

I just figured, okay, we're never going to build anything proper because all of the incentives are aligned, you know, to some invisible cabal that is selfish and just, you know, prints away our value.

And but it actually does tie into, you know, where society is going, right? So we see a lot of different narratives coming out, right? I think this also plays into Bitcoin because we see the ESG scammers, you know, like Klaus Schwab and, you know, all these fools, right, like Elon is part of this puppetry and, you

know, these people pushing all of these garbage ESG narratives, you know, to save the earth and essentially, you know, tax ourselves, you know, into prisons that none of us can get out of.

And we can see it, right? Like we can see that it's rules, you know, rules for the, but not for me, you know? So these people are just deciding to dictate this type of future. And unfortunately, okay, if we all continue to grind on this wheel of consumerism, right?

Because essentially, like this is what it is, like if you watch the, if you watch mainstream media, you get bombarded with constant messaging, okay, for a guy, you know, you're constantly reminded that you're, you know, you're bald, you're too fat, you're not rich enough, you

know, you definitely need to pick up some type of sport, some type of hobby, okay, like, you know, you've got to be wearing some type of a wristwatch, you know, and it has to be of a certain brand, like, they constantly bombard you with the stuff.

And with women, they do it even, you know, even worse, it's the same type of thing, okay, like you're fat, you're not beautiful enough, you know, you're too skinny, you're not skinny enough, the clothes you're wearing is wrong, you know, you have to be an amazing mother,

but at the same time, you also have to be the best possible business person. So imagine all of this, this, this brainwashing going on, at the same time, our money is losing value. Okay, so the money is losing value, which means we have to continue to work, we have

to continue to increase the rate at which we work so that we can keep up at a minimum with inflation, right? So all the while this is happening, but at the same time, you have politicians, they're passing laws, you know, they're doing things, they're making agreements.

Where does anyone have any time to actually make society any better? Like, this is, this is by design, right? Like this is by design, you keep everybody confused, upset, okay, anxious, they are not going to be able to find their way out, we are not going to be able to find our way out.

And as a result, we can't fight a proper battle. And that's really, that's really what it is, like this is absolutely a battle for hearts and minds. And unfortunately, the majority of us are trapped in the cycle, you know, and I'm not excluding myself from any of this, right, like I'm a consumer too, right?

I like nice things, I'm willing to go and trade my time for, you know, a depreciating value in the fiat world to get some of these things. But because I learned about Bitcoin, I'm, you know, I now no longer consume as much.

And instead, I conserve and I take all of that value and I turn it into Bitcoin. I still get things that I like and I still like nice things. But I try to rationalize and I try to balance that out, you know, because every single thing we buy today, every single thing that we do today is something that we, it's essentially,

we're trading the future for today. And if the stuff that we are trading it for is garbage, then we're just getting scammed and we're scamming ourselves. Anyways, I don't know where I was going with that.

Yeah, no, I mean, you make some very good points. We feed the machine, don't we? With every purchase and allowing ourselves to sort of fall for this brainwashing. And some of it, I mean, some of it is falling for brainwashing.

Some of it is like, okay, like I literally do actually need a chair now. So there comes a limit where, you know, there is a point where you do need some things, but I get your point and we all do fall for it, Bitcoin definitely disciplines you because every single time you buy something, every single time you give in to that sort of voice

in the back of your head saying, I want, I want, I want, I want, you look back a couple of years later and you go, fuck, that was an expensive chair. Exactly. So it's a constant reminder.

It's a constant teacher of, of actually having this low time preference and you said, conserving your energy, conserving your time and doing it with Bitcoin. But yeah, like you said, it's, it's hard because these narratives are being formed around ESG and all the energy stuff that they'll be formed around many, many sort of lines

of FUD and I guess my question is like, where do you see this group who are awake, who are thinking about sound money, who are, or who I think have got to the, the bottom of like how to fix this stuff?

Well, then if I was going to go and put the hat on of the people who, who want to control, I'd be thinking, well, how do I destroy this group of people? And so that's really my, my thinking is like, how do we make sure that we don't end up being imprisoned or forced out of society or, you know, whatever it is that they decide to do?

And how do we find a place where we can just be ourselves and actually look after our family and build because if we're allowed free, if we, if we find a way to, to live the way that we envisage, incredible things will happen.

And it, it excites me so much that it's all that I can think about day to day, but, but things are starting to get real now. I'm starting to feel, especially in the UK, I'm starting to feel that my days are numbered and I sound like a crazy conspiracy theorist maybe, but I'm genuinely, I'm looking at boats.

I'm looking at ways to have an exit plan. I'm looking at anything that I can do so that when they come knocking, I can be gone. And the question is where do we go? I, I know exactly what you mean.

And actually, you know, just to circle back because that question is part of the first one that I attempted to answer, but only started to, but okay, so I, I kind of see a couple of different ways, right?

I, I do see us, unfortunately, if people, I, I think if, if Bitcoin doesn't get adopted in a bigger, in a bigger way, and again, it doesn't necessarily, that doesn't necessarily mean that Bitcoin itself at the base layer gets used every single day for frickin' coffee.

Okay. Nobody gives a shit about coffee. Okay. I think that crap on higher layers. But I think if it doesn't essentially become the world reserve currency, which we believe that, that it will, right, I think that we will continue to spin out into totalitarianism.

And I think it'll only get worse. But I do believe that if more countries adopt Bitcoin and Bitcoin does what we believe it's going to do, I think that we do have a fighting chance. Because at the end of the day, Bitcoiners, you know, not to sound cheesy, but Bitcoiners think differently.

You know, just in general, I'm, you know, I'm obviously, I'm painting with a broad brush, but you know, Bitcoiners overall think differently, look at, you know, look at society in a way that, you know, a fiat person, you know, or a person that totally, you know, drinks the Kool-Aid does not look at.

And I believe that that view, like that time has come, you know, for that view to make its way into the material world and begin to form, you know, and like, and I think that if it goes the way that we think that we have a fighting chance, but to your point about the exit plan, I think about this stuff all the time.

And one of the things I'm working to do is essentially, you know, make my footprint a lot smaller. And no, this doesn't have anything to do with carbon footprint or any bullshit like that.

Okay. I don't, it's not that I don't care about the environment, but I think that there's a lot of trolls out there. There's a lot of concern trolls that have no idea what they're talking about.

I'm not saying I do, but I'm saying that they have no clue. So I'm not going to say I do, but I know for sure they fucking don't. Anyway, so when I talk about growing, making my footprint smaller, I'm talking about making the wheel that I run on smaller.

So I don't have to run as much to keep up with that wheel, right? Because like essentially like that, that's what it is, right? You, you know, you have on one side, you know, you have the wheel of your, your input and then you have the output.

And unfortunately, what is required keeps going up. So the whole key is to, I think, you know, figure out ways to live, you know, like within your means so that God forbid, you know, the, you know, the government does come knocking and we do move to that totalitarian reality, you can hopefully find a way out.

And to your point, where is out, right? Like I, I honestly have no idea. You know, I'd like to believe that the, you know, that the US like there's going to be like a great awakening, I'm not talking about woke bullshit.

I'm talking about an actual awakening, you know, the, the type of stuff that like the, the founding fathers, you know, went through. So I just don't think that that spirit exists anymore, but unfortunately, I think that humanity may be tested to the point where that spirit will, will return.

And maybe that spirit is, is, is in Bitcoin, right? It's changed forms. Maybe that spirit has, you know, taken on a digital, like a digital reality or being who knows, yeah, maybe, maybe that's where the place is, maybe, maybe there is no physical place right now, but our place is online.

Our place is the fact like I'm sitting and having this conversation with you across the world and we're having a discussion about freedom and how we, we make this thing work and maybe with all the borders locked and all the bullshit that they're planning, maybe

physical contact isn't going to be possible for most people and, and as terrible as that is, at least we have this. And so, so then I guess the question is we, how do we make sure that we have the, the networks available to continue to communicate and to build as a community because it seems that

is the way it's going and, you know, it's talked about in the sovereign individual. It's talked about a lot that these borders will be closed, that they do not want digital nomads or people to be living as freely as, as is possible.

The potential is there. It's just, it's now being closed down. So, I mean, thank fuck, we have Bitcoin and thank fuck, we have the internet. It's just, you know, that, that is what we need to protect at all costs.

I think Bitcoiners are going to have to, and not just Bitcoiners, but, you know, just, you know, proponents of, you know, like cypher punks and stuff like that. Like I think, you know, everyone, you know, we are all going to have to step up to the plate, you know, in some way and create that reality where it can't be stopped by them.

You know, where it can't be stopped by governments. I mean, look, look at what happened right with, with China and the, the, the hash rate drop. I mean, nobody seems to really appreciate that we had a nation state actor shut off 50 percent, you know, like 50 percent of the hash in one shot and sorry, the hash dropped 50 percent

in one shot and Bitcoin just kept on going like nobody cared. You know, I understand that people look at the fiat price and this is a lot of our brainwashing. We value, you know, people value things in fiat dollars.

But if you're just looking at it as the organism that it is, right? It did not bat an eye. It just kept going. It doesn't care. It doesn't care who shuts it off. It makes no difference, you know, that.

So to be like crazy, right, like they can't stop this thing and they know they can't stop this thing. So the only thing that they can do is trick people out of it. Okay, trick people out of it.

Make people make people hate it. Right? Like they, I mean, this is like, you see all the different, you know, guys like Steve Hanky and stuff like, like they have like all these, to me anyways, you know, these like paid, you know, like stormtroopers, you know, and these guys, they come out when they're

forced to and then they create all of this fud and they create all of this noise and all of this garbage and you know what, if they win, right? If they win, then then we really, then we don't deserve Bitcoin.

Like that, that's the honest to God truth. Like that, that's you, right? Like if this system, if this system wins and Bitcoin somehow gets like coerced by these giant entities and we lose and somehow we managed to lose it, you know, I don't even know how.

But if we do, we just don't deserve it. Yeah. We have to fight very hard and I think, you know, it's one of the reasons I push on my show so much is just privacy security, getting away from exchanges, trying to get yourself as far away from the current system and as untraceable as possible and as fluid as possible

so that you can move when you need to because, you know, number go up is great, but number go up is not so great if you have, you know, your Bitcoin suddenly worth a million dollars of coin and you're sat in a fucking jail cell, how useful is that?

And, you know, I think, I think that's something that there's a lot of people in the space who are really helping with this, but as a general rule, most people are still so concerned with number go up that they aren't realising, like you said, that's a brainwashing thing.

Don't focus on, well, how many dollars can I get? Why do you want to care how many dollars you get? It's a fucking shit coin. Why don't you consider, like, okay, how many sats have I got and what is that as a percentage of this network that is going to continue to grow?

And if you think about it that way, then it shouldn't be a concern and really trying to suck up to regulators and trying to create ways that we can sort of brand ourselves as a bit softer around the edges and all that kind of stuff.

It's like, no, fuck off. That's not what this is. Everything else is soft around the edges. Everything else is corruptible. This is the one thing that isn't. So don't try and dress it up like it is because it's not.

Exactly. Preach, man. That is absolutely right. And it pisses people off, right, because we're so used to being spoon fed everything, you know, we're so used to, like, look, look at our banking system, right?

We offset our risk. Like what is wrong with personal responsibility? They make it like a boogeyman, you know, oh, look, if you don't, you know, if you lose your keys, then you've lost all your money, well, you know what?

If you didn't train us to be so damn soft for so many generations, maybe that wouldn't be a fucking problem, but it is because we're all soft. So like stuff like that, you know, like it just, it makes no sense.

And everything, everything is a boogeyman, you know, it's, it's all right. Like everything about Bitcoin, like, that's the other thing that I'm seeing now. I don't know if you saw this, but now you're starting to see media outlets trying to equate Bitcoin quote unquote, you know, ideology with right wing ideology.

Yeah. Okay. And this, this complete bullshit of right and left wing, these people all work for the same frickin lobbyists and the same companies. These are all hypocrite motherfuckers, okay, they are politicians that that's all they are.

They do absolutely nothing for society, okay, they just play pretend all day long. These people are paid larpes. So the fact that anybody creates this whole left and right, what is happening is that they are again, this is part of the mind fuck.

What we should be looking at it as is freedom and not freedom, okay, like that's all there is to it. You know, people desire personal freedom, people desire, you know, it's so funny, right?

They try to make us all seem so complex, but what do we really desire a human being doesn't really desire much like besides like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? You know, like what you desire to be love and you desire to be free, you know, whatever your definition of freedom is, it's not very much.

And this is just something that these people constantly suck away and they constantly get us to try to trade for this quote unquote security from all of these boogeyman's, you know, yeah, safe, be safe, be safe, wrap yourself in cotton wool.

Come on. Oh, it's unsafe out there. Let me put you in this cage and nothing nasty gets you like think about it, right? Like every single, you know what, human beings, right? Human beings are like the most avaricious, you know, like the most avaricious creatures,

okay, like we, for, you know, for whatever reason, every conceivable law had to be created so that we could keep ourselves civil, okay? So instead of like focusing on all of this outwardly crap, we should all be really looking inwardly and trying to actually become, you know, better humans.

And this does circle back to Bitcoin because I think Bitcoin, right? The fact that we are crap, you mix that in with some bad incentives. Well, now you've got a real problem and you have exactly what we're living through today, right?

This is the accumulation of just terrible incentives and, you know, people being driven by those incentives. So if we change the monetary base and we provide a better quality incentive, then I believe that we are going to make better quality decisions, which should result in, you know, better quality life.

I hope. Yeah. I think so. And I see it, I see it in this community, I see as a general rule, or at least the people that I associate with myself, sorry, associate myself with, I think generally it does tend to be the basic needs, like it is, I just want to be loved.

I want to have a family and I want to make sure that I provide for my family. We have good food and we have time together, like pretty much that's very different to what is pushed to, especially the younger generations now with a lot of the social media shit that's going on.

And a lot of this idea of like, oh, you've got to save the world. And you know, basically you've got to feel bad about having children and you've got to feel bad about traveling, you've got to feel bad about experiencing life.

And it seems to me that just sort of forcing themselves into their own cages and they're doing it so that they can virtue signal about doing it. And I fear that they will wake up sort of at some point and go, oh my God, what the fuck have I done?

I've given away all my freedoms, I've given away the chance to explore life, explore the world and you know, only get one shot here and then you're dead. You know, it's just, again, the conspiracy theorist side of me seems to think, well, it is a small group of people who have a very cleverly thought out plan.

And they're looking at human psychology and they're just going, well, how do we rinse? You know, it's a bit like asic mining. It's like, how do you rinse as much hash power out of this thing for as long as I can to get as much as I can out of it before it dies?

That's basically it. And how do I give it the, you know, how do I get the cheapest energy to feed it for as long as I can, smallest amount in most out. And I kind of think like that's how these people are thinking.

It's like they're looking at every human as like a little asic and they're just going, how do I fucking rinse this thing and then I'm going to throw it on the trash. And people, when I, when I say things like that, like, oh, don't be discussing, don't be so stupid.

You really think a small group of people are controlling the world and yeah, basically I do. I don't think they sit around a table or anything like that. I just think they have aligned incentives from a system that is corrupted and they are a group of people who are probably highly intelligent psychopaths and sociopaths who

just don't give a fuck and they're power hungry. Absolutely. These are, I totally agree with that. So unfortunately, you know, you're in good company with the conspiracy. It kind of is. It kind of is exactly that, right?

Trying to, you know, it's just like the movie, The Matrix, right? Where they show you like, you know, to essentially turn a person into a battery. Like that, that is exactly what it is. And, you know, for the people that think for a second that Klaus, somebody like Klaus Schwab

or, you know, what's his name there, the Fiat Hamburger, what's his name, Augustin Karsten, like these people, man, these are just these are just puppets. These are the worker bees, the real people that are behind the scenes.

So look, like we all know the world's wealth is concentrated into the, you know, into the 1%. Okay. So that's that's already known, known fact. Okay. These people, you will never see them, okay?

They do not appear in the media. They don't show up anywhere, okay? You will have, for the most part, only they know who they are and the people who are closest to them know who they are.

And yes, absolutely. It is run. I mean, come on. Look, who do you, like, who do the central bankers answer to, right? Like who owns the Federal Reserve? There's a couple of families, right?

There's a couple of people that own the Federal Reserve, you know, you can go look that up. You'll look at those names and you'll be like, I never see these names in the media. Of course not.

They don't want any attention. Why would they want attention? They print money for free. Their lives, these people get to truly enjoy existence while you toil. And I understand some people sit there and they'll be like, yeah, well, whatever, you know, I own a company and I make millions of dollars and this and that.

And it's like, you know what, dude, you're still, you're still having to sit there and schlep for customers, okay, you still have to sit there and grind on a wheel. You buy your boat. You buy the house.

All of this costs money, okay, it requires, it requires money going in, money going out. These people get to print money out of thin air. Nothing has to go in. Yeah. Everyone's a frickin slave.

Okay. It's so funny. So what? So what? So because like somebody's at a different level in the, in the trash dump. Look at me. I'm at the top level of the trash dump. Oh, good for you. I can still stand in the trash dump.

You know, I think it's, and that's all of us, man. That's me included. Like I'm not sitting here like on my high horse. I'm standing in the trash dump with you. I don't care. I understand that.

I'm right down at the bottom with the bin juice. Just just, just above the bin juice. Just getting to some air. Hey, at least we get to swim. Okay. That's it. But yeah, I've been these, these people.

This is why, you know, that Epstein case interested me and a lot of this stuff. You know, I remember when all that came about. Well, firstly, I will say because of Bitcoin and my obsession with Bitcoin, I never go that deep on everything else because I simply do not have time and it is not as important to me.

Agreed. But when you see these things like Epstein case and it was just like, Oh, come on. He's gone in there. He's commit suicide and the fucking cameras have gone down and the guards fall in asleep.

Oh, yeah, of course it has. And it's so fucking obvious. And then you just think, well, was this guy a little bit too close? Was this guy at the, did he have information, just a little bit too much information on people who may not even be the people we're talking about, but they're one removed or, you know, I'd love to know.

And it seems that it's just a cesspool of just absolutely the worst of the worst people. And it would be so interesting just to see what the fuck is going on and what do these people do and what makes them tick and how are they spending this time and money?

Is it simply they enjoy hurting people or is it just a complete power, crazy, like golem sort of creature that sits at the top of the high rise building or like, do you know what I mean? I'd love to see who they are and what they're doing.

Oh my God. Yeah. So it's funny, right? Like there's so many, there's so many rumors and stuff like that. So for sure, I do not like there's no way that Jeffrey Epstein killed himself, obviously.

But all of these, all of these people, all of this stuff, like this is to me anyways, this is what happens when you become elite and bored and your incentives are garbage. Like people are not truly, like people do not seek true happiness.

You know, we don't even understand what that really is, you know, like actual proper bliss. Like I'm not pretending that I understand what it is. You know, I'm in a search just like everybody else, right?

But I think that as a result, we just have people doing really disgusting things. And when you have unlimited or very close to unlimited resources, it, the sky's the limit as to how depraved you could become, you know, it's there's a saying that I, not that I think this necessarily applies to this, but it just made me think of this.

You know, I always remind myself of, you know, when you're when you're poor, you're crazy when you're rich, you're eccentric. And that to me right there exactly signifies the difference. They are both the exact same, okay, the only difference, only thing that changes is your resources.

Yeah. That's all. And your, your ability to grasp these, and I suppose it's like anything, it's like, you become accustomed to a way of life very quickly, very, very quickly. If you suddenly start making 10 times more money than you did before and you get the

new car and you get the watch and all that sort of stuff, within a couple of months you bought of it, you're like, okay, what's next? And you know, you, you, if you start doing drugs, you always need more and more.

If you start drinking, you need more and more. And I imagine it's probably the same with these kind of guys, like you say, it's unlimited resources. And, you know, at first they're like, Oh, I'm on a yacht with 15 hookers and I'm, you know, I'm doing blow and this is really great fun.

And then, you know, I can't imagine this, you know, I could have never imagined my life like this and then, you know, 10 years down the line, that's really boring. Well, what's next? And I suppose that's probably the trap that these people fall into.

I think that this is completely by design, right? Like, I always think back to school and it just, you know, growing up and I remember, you know, you had a couple of teachers here and there that would teach you about meditation and yoga and breathing, you know, you kind of had like those out there teachers, right?

I fucking didn't. I did. I had a few teachers like that that were always like trying to teach us about breathing exercises my wife did too, you know, like, but for the most part, like nobody's actually teaching you about mindfulness, right?

About any of these things like these internal things, right? Like a lot of us, a lot of us is mechanical, right? A lot of what we are is a mechanical thing and you kind of have to like train the mind to see the kind of the ghost in the machine or even just to like be the ghost in your

machine, you know, like, and I find that everything taught to us is outwardly, it's outside of us. We seek, right? Like we seek gratification from outside, you know, we seek, right? Like, again, this goes back to the consumerism, right? the cars, the fancy clothes, all of

like having things, you know, like being seen all of this crap, like this is all like external gratification. But none of us are really taught to like to look inward and to find that strength, right?

From inside even, I mean, don't get me wrong, but like even to a certain extent, you know, religion, you know, mainstream religion teaches you to, you know, to look outside of yourself, right?

To look to this thing as a savior in this and that and it's not to say that we are all God, I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole, like I'll let somebody else have that battle. But I'm just saying that essentially we are deprived of knowing who we are from an early age and we are knowing what we are and what we are capable of.

And this, I believe, is done by design and used against us because if a person understands their worth, they're less likely to be manipulated, I believe they're more they're going to be more confident in themselves.

And also they're most they may not conform to what an overall society is trying to create. And that's not good for a giant machine, you know, so these these things like we are not taught these things by design and as a result, right, the way this circles back.

So we are not taught mindfulness, we're not taught all of these things to, you know, become internally and mentally healthy. So as a result, we get older, we make more money, we become more successful.

What is that mind going to create, right? It's I to me, it's it, you know, this is known, it's it's known because of our incentives and because of, you know, because of the path that it took, it had no other.

There was no other choice, you know, it's like, it's not to say that everyone who ends up having money and, you know, like crazy amounts of money ends up becoming depraved and insane. No.

But it's to say that it's understood that a certain percentage of them will that's it's baked right into the formula. Right. Like that's part of the code. Yeah. Definitely. I had this conversation with Princey, a couple of episodes on the Mezhta del month, where

we were talking about education and, you know, about homeschooling and about the general set up of the way that kids are tall. And it does seem, especially after my conversation with him, it's just like, I mean, it sounds cool.

You had your, you had your teachers who talk to you about breathing exercises and mindfulness and like, that's, that's fucking awesome. But it certainly wasn't the experience that I had or that most people seem to have.

And it seems like it is a way to just put people into little boxes and, and to just create drones that think a certain way, do things a certain way. They're primed to go into an office. Their incentives are taught to them like, Oh, you've got to have this.

You've got to have the money. And this is what's cool. And this is what's not. And, and you've got, you've got to get these marks on a test and you've got to conform in this way. And this is how you learn.

And this is what you learn. And this is how you do your maths. And this is how you think. And you can't do it a different way. And if you get the right answer, but you do it the wrong way, that's wrong.

And it's just like, what the fuck are we doing to these kids? And what was done to us? And then it's like unlearning all this shit. And so I think that's going to be a big thing going forward is when Bitcoiners have children is to think like, how do I make this child realize his or her value and to be happy within themselves?

Because it seems it's going very much the other way. You know, these kids, the kids are not all right. The kids are not all right. Yeah, exactly. Right. Offspring. The kids are not all right.

You got the reference. Absolutely, man. I'm 40. I grew up listening to offspring. But, but yeah, man, you're, you're absolutely, you're, you're right on, you know, and look, we're going to have a small percentage of people that choose to stand up against the

system and choose to, you know, homeschool, you know, talking about homeschooling. So I work with a guy, they, they homeschooled their kid and then their kid went to college. Okay. And he ended up coming to work for our company.

And he is by far one of the most functional, interesting, okay, like bright individuals that, that I have met in a long time. And really like, it's a pleasure, like when I, so as a kid, right, like the, the, again, the narrative that they create is that, you know, the people that, you know, are homeschooled,

like there's, you know, like there's something wrong with their families or there's something wrong with them or whatever it is. Okay. So this is kind of some of the brainwashing that I had as a, as a kid, you know, and that was the impression that I had.

And then of course, right, through learning and meeting people that were homeschooled, I was like, you know what, maybe this is a lot better. And as I've grown up, my opinion has changed.

And today it seeing what the public school system is creating, even the private school system for that matter really makes no difference. You kind of have no choice but to instruct your kids yourself.

You have no choice but to do homeschooling. And this actually is very interesting, right? This goes kind of back to the point of like Bitcoin and being able to store your value. Well, if you're constantly having to run on that wheel, how are you supposed to stay home and homeschool your kid?

You know, like if it's so important, right, like if it's so important to have children and to propel the future generations, like, how do you stay home and take care of your kid? Well, there's a certain percentage, very wealthy individuals will be able to do that.

Maybe somebody will be able to pay somebody else to have a teacher come to your house, right? And teach your kids. I don't know if that's even feasible. Who knows? You know, like it probably is, right?

Just like tutoring. So again, you know, like I think it's this situation where, you know, we have this bad money that then forces it, you know, look, you have no choice. You have to send your kid off to public school.

You know, maybe you can't afford private school. Well, now the kid's going to be indoctrinated the way that public school thinks your kid should be indoctrinated, you know, and I remember that, like that, you know, that there was, you know, school.

I mean, I went to elementary school in Canada and I don't, look, I don't really know if there was, I'm sure there was many levels of indoctrination, right? That I wasn't even aware was happening.

But I will say this, the system, if you just follow the system the way it is, they literally churn out cogs in the machine. I mean, this is what it is. You grow up, you know, you go to school, you grow up in order to work for a company.

Like that's it. Nobody teaches you how to get out of that wheel. Like I feel that if I was a teacher, I would be sitting there spending like every single week, at least some portion explaining to these kids how you get out of the rat race, you know, but then it's hypocritical, right?

It's like, well, you're a teacher, you're getting paid. You're in the rat race, you know, but maybe you're independently wealthy and you choose to be a teacher so that you can help people get out of the rat race, you know, that's, that's also plausible.

Anyways, I'm just saying like, I think it's worthwhile. It's worthwhile to do that because as of right now, the system does nothing but churn out cogs. Yes, they do talk about entrepreneurship, but for the most part, they are teaching you to be just to be a slave, right?

They teach you essentially to be good enough to perform a task, but dumb enough to swallow all the Kool-Aid. Yeah, it is exactly how it feels and it's probably why I fucking hate at school so much, you know, and it's, it's such a shame because children when they are in the right environment, first

of all, honestly, they learn so much so quickly, they're smart as shit. I wish I was as smart now as I was when I was a kid because I fucking learned stuff crazy fast and now it's completely different and it's just like, they're being dumbed down.

So when you're talking about, oh, well, if you have more time to spend with your families, you know, that is exactly what I would want to do. If things go well in life and I have the time, I would want to spend as much time as humanly possible with my children to teach them to not be a fucking drone, to think for themselves,

to nurture their skills and, you know, allow them to become the best person they are because that's kind of what I see our purposes in life is like I look back on my life and I look and I think, all right, some of this shit was really dumb that I did.

Some of it was smart. Some of it was dumb and when I have a child, I want them to be a better version of me. I want them to know, I want to pass on my experiences and want them to be better than me, a 2.0 of me and the best person to teach them that is me.

And yes, you're going to have to have specialists in to teach them things that I don't understand or if you need to go deeper into subjects, but I want to choose those teachers. I don't want to find someone who is just a complete randomer at a school that is in

a system where they have to do things a certain way and everyone has to have the same test and I'd rather say, oh, my kids really interested in music, well, I'm going to get them to speak to baddest then because he's a musician that I respect or find people within the community

where I go, you know, Mr. Crown, someone, my kid goes, oh, I really want to learn about web design. I'd be like, well, you're going to speak to Mr. Crown then because there's no one I trust more on this stuff.

So it's about being able to have the time to cherry pick and give your kids the best, but it's frowned upon. And if I was to say that to anyone in my family, they would just say, oh, well, they're not going to be able to socialize.

That's cruel. That's terrible. They're going to turn out to be a weirdo, you know, all the typical brainwash shit and it's just like, it can be further from the truth. No, it's totally, it's totally wrong.

But again, right? Let's take a look. You know, we, how could I, how could I say this? None of us know how to live. I've said this before and I've tried to express this idea multiple times, but like, I don't know if it really gets the point across, none of us really know how to live.

I look around and I see people doing the things that they were taught by the people before them. They don't really know why they do them. They think that they do them because this is what everyone else does.

I mean, think about it, right? Even for example, having kids, there's nothing wrong with having kids, right? There's nothing wrong with not having kids. It's an individual choice or in some cases, it's a circumstance of life, of that person's life for whatever reason, right?

And there should be no judgment placed upon it. But unfortunately, there's a lot of societal brainwashing behind it because having children also in certain societies, right, creates new, you know, essentially new tax cattle.

It creates new people to consume and stuff like that. So it, again, right, like there should be no judgment placed upon that. If you want to have kids, absolutely, you should have kids and you should instruct them the way that you decide and see fit and whatnot.

And that, that should be the way that it, you know, the way that it's done. But the reality is, is that you look around and you see most people doing things only because these are the things that other people did before them.

I mean, think about it, right? Like how do we end up where every single person, right? Every single person that lives on a block, how do you all end up living with the same sized little plot of land, every single person mows the lawn on a certain day, everybody

has like the certain, you know, little white picket fence and this and that or not necessarily even that. But like, how do we end up like that? Because we saw someone else living like this.

We don't know any better. And this is, this is the thing other people will impose how to live upon you. Like you were just explaining with your family. They don't know why they think the way they think they really, the reason why they think that way is because that's how they were told because the people before them think that way.

But nobody, very few people are actually living for themselves. Very few people are, are actually choosing for themselves, you know, and, and I think that that is the tragedy. The tragedy is that people don't know that they had a choice, you know, it's, it's interesting you put it like that, actually, that we don't know how to live.

I suppose that's just made me think that, yeah, you, you kind of, there's different options on the menu that's put in front of you. It's like have kids don't have kids, you know, vote left, vote right.

They're both fucking useless, but that's your options. There's certain, you know, buy a house or rent, but you know, pretty much there's, there's these sort of options on the menu and a lot of it's quite shit.

And you can't just go off menu and say, Oh, I want a bit of this and a bit of that. You know, well, you can, but it's very hard to do it. It's very hard to choose your own ingredients without people throwing a tantrum or making life very difficult and sourcing these things.

And yeah, it's, I guess, again, it's, it's more possible because of the internet. It's more possible because of Bitcoin and it's more possible in this community because you got some people with some, some open minds and who are thinking about this.

And so I guess it's like, just again, back to, to the beginning of the conversation really is just, you know, how to communicate more and create networks where we can live like this. And maybe, maybe the majority of it has to be online, but I do dream of, I do really

just fucking, it would be so amazing to have that experience like I did for the weekend, just around real people, real human beings, real honest conversations. And it was so refreshing and stepping away from it has just made me crave more of that.

And, you know, a lot of people with this whole, you know, oh, well, maybe we'll go to El Salvador or we'll go somewhere else is like, well, let's see how that plays out. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

I still, I don't hold out high hopes, if I'm honest, I, I don't think, oh, just because they accept Bitcoin and they use that as legal tender that it's going to be any less authoritarian.

And I just don't see any country out there really where I'm going. Oh, yeah, they're, they're actually competing, but, but, you know, if you look at like generally in markets, if you have enough need for a product or a service, generally someone will start up and want that business.

And I know that it's difficult because of sanctions and war and all that other stuff, well, that lovely stuff that other governments impose on, on countries. But, yeah, I just, I'm hopeful that there is a country or a place that just pops up and just goes, yeah, we'll have you bring your productive value here, bring your Bitcoin here.

We're, we're going to allow you to get on, don't do the obvious shit, you know, don't rape or murder, but other than that, or steal, but, you know, pretty much fucking carry on and create some cool shit.

Like, that's, that's what I pray for. That's what I dream of. Well, like the sovereign individual, right, because I also read that book, Fantastic. Fantastic read. I'd say, um, sovereign individual and, um, creature from Jekyll Island are, are two must read that one.

I've got it in my list. It's worth it. Yeah. Yeah. You have to. You definitely, definitely have to. But, um, the, the reason why I mentioned that was just, you know, to, to go back to this.

I, I think that I do believe that we are moving in the direction that the sovereign individual is talking about. Look, you know, at some point, an entity that doesn't provide any value, okay?

I understand that governments are a giant machine. But the reality is, is that the only thing that they truly have is the ability to print money. Okay. The ability to print money makes it so that they can fund things that can help keep them in power.

So the more, you know, the government is made up of human beings. These human beings have incentives. These human beings have children. These human beings have lives, right? They feel like everyone else.

So at some point, I, I believe that, you know, Bitcoin is going to, you know, is going to ring with more people, right? It's going to, it's going to, you know, touch them at that, that level where they, they get why Bitcoin.

Yeah. And I think that governments are going to have no choice but to start offering value. And I think that that is going to change, you know, there's nothing wrong with the government offering value.

Like these people should not be fearing actually offering value. I mean, people wouldn't have, you know, people wouldn't, I don't believe that we would be, you know, so, so against taxation if governments were actually efficient and fair and offered value.

I don't even think that we would call it taxation. And I, I believe that at that point we would actually be paying for a, for a fucking service. Like taxation is really, it's, it's a tax because they're scamming you.

You know what I mean? Like it really is a tax because they're scamming you. If they weren't scamming you, it would be fee for service, but it's not fee for service. It's a fucking tax, you know?

So I, I just, anyways, I think that we're moving in that direction and I, I personally, I have no idea what country, but I can't say this. I'd like to see, I'd like to see it spread all over the world.

I don't, I don't even, you know, I, who, who knows where, you know, but just everywhere. Hmm. Yeah. I like that optimistic take. Well, we're certainly doing all that we can and pushing and fighting against the narratives and trying to open people's eyes to it and it's a slow process, but it does feel that

it is gaining momentum and, and although this crazy fucking mental shit that is going on with forced vaccinations and these kinds of ideas that have been floated, movement licenses, etc. A small proportion of the planet are fighting back and I guess it is a way of yes, we don't

have a marketing department within Bitcoin, but if we, we can mean things into reality and allow people to see that this is the future, those people are going to get pushed towards Bitcoin much, much quicker than they might have otherwise.

So maybe all of this that they're doing actually ends up being their downfall. If they'd been a little bit slower, like the frog boiling in water sort of idea, maybe that maybe some frogs are going to start jumping out and maybe that's enough to, to stop all of this and to, to create a better world.

Yeah, maybe, you know, it always, I mean, look, right? It always, it, it's like we say in Bitcoin, right, it's, it's slowly at first and then all of a sudden and, and you know, and that's, that's kind of, I think that that's kind of what's happening.

I mean, you know, I remember when I was like 16 years old, these types of conversations like that was kind of around the time when I started to discover, you know, the, you know, these quote unquote conspiracy theories, you know, how money's made, you know, stuff

like that, you know, what's the federal reserve, you know, and, you know, what, what are central bankers? And it definitely, ah, damn it, I'm sorry, Max, I totally forgot what I was saying.

I hate it when that happens. I didn't have a good point though, I swear it was going to make sense. I'm sorry. It's all right. It happens to me all the time. I hate that. This is the thing though.

It's so much swimming around when you're thinking about these things that it often happens. But look, mate, it's been, it's been really, really cool to, you know, job with you again. And I feel a little bit more positive before I jumped on the call, I was like, fucking

so down on the, on the world and I was like, we're fucked, we're fucked. And I was like, hopefully, hopefully some knowledge is going to be dropped on me here and I'm going to feel a bit better and, and I do because obviously there are other people thinking in the same way and willing to fight and yeah, that, that makes me happy.

Yeah, man. Absolutely. It was awesome, by the way. Thank you so much for having me on. A pleasure. Anytime. And yeah, thanks for what you do. And before you jump off, we obviously did this in the last pod, but I think it's important.

Can you just direct people so they can find you and, and everything that you're doing? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Okay. And for us on YouTube, simply Bitcoin or you could just go to simply Bitcoin dot TV.

And that'll redirect you to our YouTube channel and we talk about Bitcoin daily dump dump on the daily fails, do a meme review, the news and the software releases. So come check us out. All right.

Thanks, man. I'm sure we'll catch up again soon. Thank you. You too. Cheers.

[MUSIC PLAYING] When we were younger, future was so bright. The old neighborhood was so alive. And every kid on the whole damn street was gonna make it big enough for you to be. Now the neighborhood's cracked and torn.

The kids had grown up but the lives of one. What? How can one little street?

The old neighborhood was so beautiful. And every kid on the whole street was so beautiful. And every kid on the whole street was so beautiful.

[MUSIC PLAYING] She had a chance, well, she really did. She dropped down and had a couple of kids. Barcelona's at home because he's got no job. Space guitars want a lot of pie. Check 'em in and suicide.

Brandon Odita died. What the hell is going on? Groove and street reality. She had grown up and nothing's free. Losing fun. You supreme. She went hard to sing. At your life. She had a dream.

[MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] She had grown up and nothing's free. Losing fun.

You supreme. She went hard to sing. At your life. She had a dream. [MUSIC PLAYING]