EP42 Bitcoin podcast with Pretyflaco and Kevin Ravensberg

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.

♪ Discord ♪♪

Now what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.

Alright, you ungovernable misfits. I'm your host, Max. Everybody knows that Bitcoin is useless, worthless, and doomed to fail. But what if everyone's wrong? What if it's the system that is doomed to fail?

Join me, as I speak to some of the brightest people in the space, and slither to the deepest, darkest depths of the Bitcoin rabbit hole. Today, on Bitbike There, I speak to Kevin Ravernsberg and Pretty Flacko.

We talk about ideas like flames and the decentralized Bitcoin art movement. We talk about the lightning network and the Bitcoin awareness game. I really enjoyed chatting to these two guys, and I love what they're doing.

It's only recently that I've been really playing around with the lightning network, and to be honest with you, it's absolutely blowing me away. If you've still sat on the sidelines and haven't used the lightning network yet, don't be ashamed.

Go check out my latest episode with Bitcoin Q&A. Learn about the lightning network, and then go to Coin Floor UK. Check the link in the show notes. Go and buy yourself some sats and have a play.

Enjoy. Welcome to Bitbike, Kevin, and Pretty Flacko. It's a pleasure to finally speak to you. We've been chatting behind the scenes for a few days now, and I've been looking through what you guys are doing, and it is very, very impressive.

So, for anyone who doesn't know who you are or hasn't followed ideas like flames, can you introduce yourselves and introduce what it is that you're doing, please? Yeah, maybe I go first. I go by the name of Pretty Flacko.

That's my Twitter handle and my Telegram handle. And I'm a Bitcoiner, and I live in Bavaria. I'm Bavarian, but I'm not German. So, yeah, I think, so what I'm doing is currently managing the Bitcoin awareness game,

and the Twitter account, the channel that is basically working closely together with a Bitcoin street art that is basically posting photos of the Bitcoin awareness game. But not only that, but it's basically an account that is specialized on posting street art about Bitcoin

that can be graffiti stencils or stickers in the streets. Yeah, so everyone can send if they see a sticker of a graffiti or a nice, I don't know, in the public out there something about Bitcoin that raises awareness for Bitcoin.

And they can make a photo and send it in, and the account then shares it, basically. Awesome. Yeah, so I'm Kevin. So I'm one of the Bitcoiners that found the ideas are like flames initiative early on, and it really re-sparked and interested in me.

So I've always wanted to do a sticker action to sort of expose the fraud in the banking system and maybe hitting ADMs, but I never really got around to it. I've had these ideas around 2016.

So yeah, when I saw the Bitcoin awareness game, that's pretty flacko. I think initiated to sort of crowdfund anyone on the road to send in pictures of street art and stickers. Yeah, it's something that I immediately thought of.

Oh yeah, this is what I wanted to do a long time ago. I'm going to do it. So I dove in, ordered some stickers, and then I think within a week, within a few days, I got a whole bunch of stickers, and then a week later I was out of stickers.

And yeah, that's how I got started here. However, you're saying 2016, you were already wanting to raise awareness to sort of the fuckery that goes on in the banking system and our current financial system.

Was that something that you, with these ideas and beliefs that were held prior to learning about Bitcoin, or were you already a Bitcoiner? So I wouldn't call myself a Bitcoiner at that point, but I had run and received like some Satoshi's.

So I'd run a Bitcoin node in 2013 already. And then from like a faucet, I got my first was it 3000 Satoshi's for free. And just just to learn about technology. And after that, I let it be for a bit because there was a lot of hype with the price.

I thought it was a bit high. And then I forgot about it for a while. And in 2016, I was part of a group here in Utrecht in the Netherlands. That was discussing the system and that's it's called the Uncy Stame group.

It's we're no longer getting together, but it was a group of people that were worried about like the failures of our current system. And of course, included the abuse of the banking system on the people and the monetary inflation was sometimes discussed,

because there's like a small elite that prints all the money and then gets distributed and the unfair side effect is going with it. It was something I was discussing at that point. Yeah. Yeah, it's the further down the rabbit hole you fall and the more you sort of get obsessed and interested in this stuff.

The more you realize that the whole thing is just a complete and utter scam and that everyone's time is being stolen. I don't know about you guys, but like I've got to the point now where it just really pisses me off when I think about it.

Like, you know, you think about these people going on with their lives and, you know, you're saying about putting the stickers on their cash points. You know, they're going there to draw out their cash and they're not really realizing that they're putting in all this work and they're being stolen from.

And it's just, it's a really sick and twisted game that's being played. So did you sort of get to a point where you just thought, right, how are we going to raise awareness and that stickers and street art was the way forward?

Or did you already have a background in art and this kind of stuff previously? Yeah, so for me, I'm like a physicist, so I don't really have an art background other than that.

And I made some art in the secondary school, but yeah, I actually did actively like design a couple of things like I took bank logos and like made some funny or like exposing statements with them.

But I never, never got to like print them and sticker them. I was, I guess I was a bit too scared. I didn't want to be associated with bank robbers or I didn't want to police harassing me.

So yeah. Yeah, and is it come with any problems putting these stickers out and doing these things if you had any issues with anybody or has it all gone fairly smoothly and under the radar.

Yeah, so the first sticker that I put out here, actually, I've only had some guys in the car like pointed me and said, and then like shake with a finger like, oh, you're, and then while smiling driving by like, oh, you're bad.

You shouldn't do that. You shouldn't put stickers here on the traffic lights. I put them there anyway, or actually, I should say somebody put them there and I was just making a picture of it, of course.

Yeah, as for me, I have never ever applied a Bitcoin sticker anywhere ever, but I'm seeing them all the time in the streets and I just can't help but share it when I see that because I find it really interesting.

Yeah, well, you know, we would definitely believe you and I've never shared any memes or any stickers anywhere either and don't take anything I say too seriously I don't really believe that Bitcoin is better than the current system so.

Yeah, so, okay, and, and it sounds like this is something that's growing and you've got, because you sent me some information about what was going on in Venezuela and some other bits is this something that is spreading quickly and more and more people are getting involved in.

Yeah, absolutely. So, in especially in Spanish speaking countries and in Brazil, the game is getting quite some traction. It helped probably that there are Spanish and Portuguese dubs of the video explainer for the Bitcoin awareness game.

So these are circulating now on different social media platforms, and also, youtubers from Brazil and from Venezuela are basically learning about this and directly, yeah, communicating it in their channels again, finding exactly the right audience,

the Bitcoiners from around the world who could be interested to contribute and, yeah, seems like South America has a middle in North America as well. I mean, we know about the United States, right.

There is a lot of Bitcoiners, especially on Twitter, very loud about Bitcoin all the time. But we don't really hear too much about Bitcoiners from other places, but they are there. And now, all of a sudden, they are becoming visible.

And we're getting messages from Bitcoiners or comments on tweets of Bitcoin street art. You can see it that people are surprised. There are Bitcoiners in their little village in somewhere in Spain, or somewhere in Switzerland, or just some tiny village in Austria.

But yeah, Bitcoiners are everywhere, but they prefer to stay private, and rightly so, as good as they can in this time where surveillance is just universal.

Well, in this game, they can find a way to basically show shows show themselves without doxing themselves. And they can spread a message, basically not really trying to convince or persuade, but just create a little bit of awareness for

someone who's curious and looking around going, walking the streets with both eyes open and trying to understand things, just igniting some curiosity. I think this is just really fundamental for the understanding of Bitcoin. You can't really make someone else understand Bitcoin. They need to be curious to want to learn about Bitcoin.

And maybe left and right people, there would be maybe a lot more Bitcoiners if they understood what Bitcoin is all about. And what you can do with it, how useful it is, but there are many misconceptions out there.

And I blame media mostly for it, who are a little bit tight with politicians and governments here and there. I mean, obviously the state sponsored media here in Germany or probably also the BBC.

Yeah, in vivid communication with the reigning politicians. So, and I think from what I understand, I think Bitcoin is not good for governments.

So they have an interest in interest to basically spread misinformation to basically extend the period of fiat and Bitcoin, a little bit into the future until they can maybe, I don't know, start some counter measures on how to deal with the problem of Bitcoin that it is for

governments. And so I think there is a vested interest not to report the truth about Bitcoin. I think five years ago, maybe there were not many journalists who understood it really or could explain it at all.

Now we have those, but they refuse to do so. And I think street art is a very Bitcoin-esque way of communicating. It's hard to censor. It's peer to peer or peer to many peers. If a sticker or a graffiti is placed well, then many people can see it.

So, and it's very cost efficient way as well. So, you know, you don't need a lot to do it. And you just need some coordination, maybe. So, and yeah, the Bitcoin awareness game was basically just doing that, helping Bitcoiners to coordinate to find a place where they can exchange ideas, where they can download stickers or make their own.

Exactly. This was important for me to get some nice designs.

Exactly, because I'm sure there are many Bitcoiners around the world who are thinking, "Man, how can I spread the word about Bitcoin? It's so awesome. I don't know how." And they can just download a PDF now and print it in their printer or their local sticker shop and create a little bit of awareness

somewhere, especially where they are living with their neighbors and the people, the places that they walk by every day. They can look for stickers and make photos of them and share it on the internet for some extra awareness, again, in the digital world.

So, bridging the gap between the offline and the online here and, yeah, trying to create a little buzz, I would say, and collecting the feedback that is coming because I think Bitcoiners are really amazing people.

And it's so much fun working together with them. We just understand each other blindly, almost, and we don't even have to know each other. We don't even have to trust each other. We have that common goal. And now with the Lightning Network Corporation is really easy.

We can write tasks for others, and if they like the tasks, they can participate and earn some sets and stack some sets, which is not a lot at the moment. It's just 615 Satoshi payout at the moment.

But the Bitcoin price has just risen, so it used to be 6 US dollars, US dollar cents, and when the game started, and now it's already at 7 US dollars cents, the payout. And I'm sure it will get to 10 cents one day, and maybe it will also get to $1 very shortly.

I mean, who knows, it goes so fast, and these things change, and I'm looking forward to, yeah, correcting the price down when that happens.

Can you talk me through the game? So for someone who hasn't played it and is listening to this and they're thinking, oh, this all sounds very cool. Like, yeah, I love Bitcoin. Yeah, I, you know, I want this to succeed. Yeah, fuck the banks.

Well, how do they play this and how do they get involved? I think the easiest way is to start on ideas are like flames.com. Have a look around on the site.

There is a nice feat of Bitcoin's street art posts on the main page, and some information about the Bitcoin awareness game, then on the right hand side, there is a sandwich menu where there's a sticker library in three languages currently.

So it's English, Spanish and Portuguese, and there are high DPI PDFs that are open source, and everyone can download them and send a print task to their printer, ideally color printer, and take some tape and put it somewhere they like,

which is not their fridge, but a public place where some other passerby's can see it. Ideally, I mean, there are some places that are more suitable. There are some techniques that are more sustainable, I would say.

So having a sticker printed in a local print shop is probably the best way to do it, because those are, yeah, they have the glue on it. So you don't have to use a tape like many in Mexico do.

But not everyone has the local print shop available to them. So everyone is just helping themselves the way they can. And if they if you take a photo of that sticker that and send it in in the micro lancer.io that's a site where you can basically earn some Satoshi's for doing small tasks.

And you're basically getting paid over the lightning network, and there's many tasks. Some are good, some are worse. Our task is one of the top tasks there, and it's called take a photo of a Bitcoin sticker in a public place and send it in.

So that's basically the task name, and then there's a description on how to do this, and basically really step by step description on what to do and how to do it. And when the photo is basically submitted and reaches us, the Bitcoin awareness gamer can tag the task as how do you call it.

Yeah, completed. Yeah, completed. And then we check the results and if the photo is cool and it's not a sticker of some strange kind but but of the real original Bitcoin, then we, we share it.

The Bitcoin awareness gamer gets to stack some sets, and that's just it. And, and if they send it some shit coin or horrible dirty fork of Bitcoin, do they get a fine or what happens to them.

I think we can find people. I think so this hasn't happened. Nobody, no one has ever sent, I don't know some other coins photo or something I don't even think any other coin has a sticker.

So it doesn't really matter so it's not worth really discussing because it if I'm not sure how many submissions there have been but there's never been anything else but Bitcoin.

It's, it's good. I'm going to have to get on this. I don't have a printer but I know I have a local print shop so I'm going to go and call some carnage around where I am because I haven't noticed a lot of stickers around here but there must be some other Bitcoiners.

But it's going everywhere. That's for sure. And I think you don't even have to run a lightning note to to receive the funds for the task right so only at the point you want to get paid out or withdraw the funds from the micro lens or site, then you have to choose.

I guess like run a, run a lightning note and have an incoming inbound channel or how does that work. Yeah, actually. So what I, what I personally really like about the Bitcoin awareness game is it's a really nice way, hands on way to get started with using Bitcoin with really small amounts and where you don't really have to

or lose anything or you actually have the opportunity to earn some Bitcoin for a really small, easy, fun task. And it's basically when I, when someone asks me about Bitcoin, this is my go to thing that I tell them it's just, you know what, if you're interested,

take a look at the site and earn Bitcoin there. So why do you want to pay anything for that? If you don't know about it, if you're, if you have no clue how it works and if you have to read up.

But as everyone really into Bitcoin can confirm is that you really learn when you put your hands on to it when you send a transaction and receive one and feel the power of peer to peer digital electronic cash that has no intermediaries and cannot be shut down and not be censored.

And it's just a thing of beauty using Bitcoin and it enables amazing cooperation around the world. So people are getting paid in Venezuela in Brazil. It's in a matter of seconds and leaving feedback that they think the game is amazing.

And I think it's a good way to onboard new users, and help them learn about it by really practicing Bitcoin, and not reading about it and watching talks of Andreas Antonopoulos, but hands on and go out and do it and get some rewards.

Yeah, I think that's a really good way to do it and like you say it's only when you start using this stuff that you really get those are moments and you just think like wow this stuff is so cool it's, it's all great in theory but when you actually use it you realize just how powerful it is.

So, I guess you both have a lightning network node running to right. Yes. Very good. More than one. More than one even more than one. Yeah. Yeah. I started late. Well, early early with the lightning notes but late with the Bitcoin notes.

So my main, my main motivation to get a Bitcoin note was because I wanted to play around with lightning. And so, before that I didn't really understand why anybody would run a note. So I was a noob and, and yeah I learned a little bit by reading and listening to discussions on Twitter about it.

I asked some OGs and today explains something swell, but really the system seller for me was the lightning network. So I started to build the recipe bold by study course, which is a proto raspy blitz.

So the raspy blitz is basically derived from the raspy bold and I think in late 2018. I managed to build my first raspy bolt with a Raspberry Pi three and 500 gigabyte SSD hard disk.

And it took me month like three months until I could basically receive a payment and I was so happy when I managed it and there were so many troubles that I had to go through talk to my ISP and change stuff.

And all this pain is now gone. Yeah, it's, so I still have that that raspy bolt is still running, by the way, and it's working perfectly. I have my electron personal server on it, to which I can connect with my electron wallet

without leaking any information if I want to look up my balances and stuff. So it's really robust running for over two years now almost. But I also have a raspy blitz.

When I go to lightning and Bitcoin full note, I think it's an amazing project that solidifies Bitcoin in the best way. And it makes it accessible and gives tools for privacy enhancements like coin joins with joint market.

It has BTC pay so ever now it's running over tour. It's way better than a Swiss bank in your pocket. It's just amazing. And you can connect to it with your mobile wallet and pay from the go, while the notes in a secure place.

Yeah, I'm just totally in love with it. And as soon as I understood that lightning network works and can scale Bitcoin, I just went all in with everything. I just thought, okay, this is it.

And, and I have never been disappointed so far. It just keeps growing keeps getting better. I can't remember when the last payment failed really. And, and I'm just fascinated every day I use it.

So the Bitcoin awareness game, I mean, I have to use it like multiple times today. And to pay basically out the bounties to the photographers. And it's just super smooth. And it's, I'm, I can't even imagine what could be better currently.

But I hear there are a lot of improvements still coming. And, but yeah, I'm a big fan of the lightning network. It's really, it's really maturing the lightning network at the moment. So I remember that when I started, like, running my lighting node, I first had to, like, run it on testnet.

I guess that's the only thing that was active in the, it was like the end of 2017 and then early 2018.

You could, if you dare to these were the people that were like reckless, you could, you could change the configuration file manual yet to like dig in, like a config file and then, and write type in several extra commands and extra change from testnet to mainnet.

And then you could hack your way. Like, if you work, if you were clever and you could read between the lines, you could hack your way to start using this on mainnet. And it was, it was like my geek moment when I, when I, when I got it to work and I wrote a little guide on how to do it and not to choose.

There were three implementations at the beginning, I thought, well, let's just choose like the European implementation. So there's a French company async that that's built the Eclaire node.

And, and so this, this is the implementation I got running back then I'm still running it's like an updated version. So I've been, been on mainnet for more than two, I think two and a half years now I've been on, on lightning networks.

It's pretty amazing that my funds haven't been stolen. It's not an advertisement for hackers to go and try, but I mean, they told me it was unsafe to keep a million sets in a hot wallet, but it's, yeah, I guess it's until now, like fingers crossed it's, it's, I've not been hacked.

So, yeah, I'm running the other, I'm running the other two implementations. So C Lightning and LND. So I have the raspy bolt and the raspy blitz are LND both and then I also have a C Lightning on the VPS and I'm super happy with both.

And also when I noticed that it's possible to receive payments, I took the initiative and helped a cafe in my hometown here in Munich to accept lightning payments.

That was on the 12th of February 2019 as a after party for the Bitcoin tech days here in Munich, which was a conference about, yeah, Bitcoin privacy.

So, Adam Fixer from Wazabi wallet was there and also many people working on the lightning network and I thought that was my chance basically when there is a lot of lightning note users on a conference to basically kick off the first lightning bar here in town.

And yeah, it's been running smoothly ever since. On the 1st of August, we had our Bitcoin independence day celebration there with the Munich meetup or Bitcoin meetup Munich, which is one of the oldest Bitcoin Munich, Bitcoin meetups in the world, by the way,

we only found out about them after the fact when the first lightning bar opened up and the people came to the after party. So I didn't even know before that there was a Bitcoin meetup in my town.

Yeah, ever since it's been, it's become a place where Bitcoiners here, well, meet and have a beer and some drinks and some food and listen to some music and celebrate some Bitcoin holidays, like the pizza day or the independence day or.

Yeah, yeah, there are some others, but we just got started with the independence day. So, it sounds very good. We have like a similar meetup recently in the Netherlands as well.

It's like the Bitcoin meetup. So I'm hoping at the next Bitcoin meetup there was promised to be somewhere this month on the beach in the Netherlands that I can bring a whole stack of stickers and give everyone a bunch of stickers so they can help with the awareness game.

And I also want to, since you mentioned the wasabi wallet. So to tell a little bit more, so like on the other, like the site next to the sticker game I've also been very happy to stack some sets by helping with the contribution game for wasabi so.

So actually, there's multiple like software initiatives out there that even if you are not a developer, but if you can just help debug some code or just test like a release candidate, you can earn quite quite a lot of of Satoshi just for helping

people test new software to get all the bugs out. So managed to find a critical bug, and I got to pay out. I think I got like 13% of the of the total contribution game reward this week. Nice.

Used wasabi. I've only ever really used samurai. How's your experience been with them. So yeah, but there wasabi wallets, I like a lot because it's, it's, it's, well, my go to interface for for working with hardware wallets now.

Before yet to like use electron wallet for that, since that was the first wallet that really nicely interfaced with the, I think it had like the HWI or the hardware wallet interface running.

Only recently it's been included in Bitcoin core, but there's, well, I haven't found the GUI button that does it, but there's supposed to be a GUI thingy in the Bitcoin core as well to work with hardware wallets and I haven't found it.

So, and with wasabi it's, it's, it's just very intuitive. You just say, well, I want to connect a new hardware wallets and then you, you can either import, like from the gold card, the, was it like the public key.

Or are you, if you have a ledger or dresser, you can connect it and detect it and, and, and imports the keys up way. So it's, yeah, it's, it's a really nice wallet just for interfacing with hardware wallets and then as a, as a, like a privacy benefit.

Next round is the big coin join feature which, well, I'll actually do sort of got the dice from your exchange. So, it's better that.

Electrum is to be able to speak to your hardware wallet. You prefer that to electrum because that's my next task is to link my hardware wallet to and I've been, I've been told I'll use electrum to do that and just export the expop to that but you're not the first

person who's mentioned wasabi is an alternative and I mean everyone has the different opinions but I just don't know what, what is best I really don't.

Yeah, I mean, both are fine with the, I think that like the experience I have with the electrum is that you sort of to run this electron private server together with it and to be able to view the, the balances on all the addresses of your hardware

in the, and you can then do that in the Bitcoin core but with wasabi wallet it, it speaks to your, your own Bitcoin note so you can, if you're running a Bitcoin note on the machine that you're running wasabi on it will automatically detect

that. And if, if you're running it on the, on like a separate server or on the, on the Raspberry Pi you can input the IP address and the, and the port that that will use to speak to the note so you can just define your note in the software

that will, that will talk to and get the information from that uses store by default so there's a whole bunch of privacy. Once it benefits from using wasabi wallets out of the books compared to electron wallet out of the books.

Let me just jump in here for a second, since we're nerding out a bit. I think I think it's one major disadvantage of having your Bitcoin core full note on a laptop or a, or your machine is that it's not always on.

And when you want to access your funds quickly and haven't done or run your machine for quite some time, then the note will have to catch up, which may be a short time.

But that is a reason why I prefer to have my Bitcoin full note on a always on device like a Raspberry Pi 4 and as it is in the basically recipe blitz or also in the my note. And I don't know some others as well, because I'm on my note and really like here.

So it's always on, it's always synchronizing, it's always receiving blocks. And if you open an electron and connect to your either electron rust server or EPS, then you instantly have your basically data for your query and without leaking any privacy and not waiting.

So I think this is a little advantage over having Bitcoin core and was our wallet combination on a laptop, which may be off for maybe, I don't know, a day, a week, a month, I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, it's true. Yeah, so actually I run my desktop 24/7. It's not very easy on the, was it the power bill or the electricity bill, but it's worth it.

So I actually have a Raspberry Pi 4 lying right here on my desk. So it's, it's been my intention to, to like boot up one of these easy all in one packaged notes. And then also play a bit, bit around with with LMD.

Go for it. Yeah, yeah, it's, I've had it, I've started it once and then there was like very early on it didn't really work as good. Maybe I should write a task on microlancer and, and incentivize people to build their own note with 1000 Satoshi, because it's wonders as we see it's just a little bit of activation energy to keep the

the hackers going. Yeah. If there's a task, I'm definitely going to do it. I'm writing it right now. Perfect. Yeah, I like that. It's one of those things that it takes some time sometimes like you say, you know, you've got it lying around.

I did the same thing and I'm not and didn't know what one to go for and I spent loads of time just deliberating and then once I'd made the decision, I actually really enjoyed like messing around and setting it up and, you know, I'm not a hugely technical guy, but I really enjoyed it like it was just

an evening to fuck around with some stuff and now it allows me to do so much more and I think a lot of the time it's just people are a little bit scared or worried about doing it in case they make a mistake but there's so many amazing videos and talk and walkthroughs and I've just done a talk with I don't know if you know Bitcoin Q&A.

Yeah. Yeah. So we've been doing a couple of episodes and talking through like how to set up your node and which ones to go for and stuff and all this stuff is just getting easier and easier by the day.

And it makes me excited to know that when people do come and they do realize that this is a better system that the tools are now there and they're so much easier than they were a few years ago.

Yeah, you definitely have to go one or two hoops but when I think back about the time when I was building the node, I was getting home from work around, I don't know, six or seven p.m. just cooking a little bit of dinner and then back to the computer screen.

And to the recipe pie, trying to get it right, watching tutorials, reading documentations and the quality as you have mentioned has dramatically increased in the meantime just like the implementations themselves.

And so, and there are scripted versions like the recipe blitz, the mine out and stuff so it's just as easy as really flashing an SD card.

That's about it. Basically, you don't really need any more skills, you just have to download for example Balena Etcher and have a SD card ready and flash it with the image that you can download from GitHub or another source.

Of course, you have to check the checksum that everything is fine and put it into your Raspberry Pi, plug some power into it and then SSD and just wait, that's it, until the node sinks. And after, I don't know, four or five days, if you're not running over tour, but if you're running over tour it may take a little bit longer.

Then you are a full Bitcoin first class Bitcoin citizen and you have taken sovereignty and you have taken back your sovereignty and your liberty on how what should happen with your labor stored in your time stored in Bitcoin.

In a currency that is that is free and cannot be diluted and that is just so empowering for the for every individual and I'm, I'm congratulating every person who has gone through the journey and is now helping others to do it.

Because for me personally I'm not a, I'm a computer guy in a way like I'm interested in it but I'm not a programmer or a developer. I can use stuff I like to play around with it and and, and tingle with it until I until it works or doesn't.

But then I look for help on the internet, there are amazing forums, very helpful people, especially Bitcoiners are very helpful.

For example, open arms he has helped me he's working on the he's one of the maintainers of the raspy blitz project he is just an angel he is helping so many people and with awesome patients and big shout outs to him.

Yeah, three or four episodes ago and he's he is a brilliant he's just yeah like you say so helpful and so nice. Absolutely I love that guy and also roots old who basically initiated the raspy blitz project is an awesome guy also a big fan of Bitcoin street art as I have heard the birds sing.

Yeah, basically very much support from all ends for those who act who want to get involved who want to learn more about it. I think this is as perfect as a time as it gets to learn more about this and yeah since everyone is in lockdown and working only part time

just people should really think about how they want to spend that time. My advice and recommendation is to learn about Bitcoin and and learn it from the right sources, obviously there's a lot of stuff flying around the internet that is not the truth

and so yeah so yeah was it the Bitcoin dash only dot com right as a good one to start at and the Bitcoin dot page. It's a bunch of good overviews right yeah open source and everyone contributes to

Yeah, they're both very good yeah there's there's so much now and I've also found just the more people you speak to and the more channels you join and telegram and the more people you link up with.

Twitter gets to a stage where, certainly for me now where like I used to be shitting myself about doing something and you can just sort of reach out and say like this is where I've got to this is where I'm stuck as long as you've given it a go and people are more than happy

and that's amazing as what I just literally had yesterday I had some issues thinking my world pool gooey up to my mind node so that it all runs from my phone and like I can keep mixing without using my phone and all that and like I had a couple of issues

and within 10 minutes it was sorted just from reaching out and like you don't get that in another industry you don't have that with other people it's not normal for people to be as helpful.

So regularly like break a software and then like and then like if you if you just like open an issue like typically these are open source softwares and then they're on GitHub and then you can just log in there like whenever you have a problem

you just just like mention it in an issue and that's even how many devs start out like they have an issue with the software like they run into something in the user interface and I think oh well this is very confusing

and then if they can go sometimes even solve the issue and that's how they can get started to see if this open source stuff is pretty amazing like I love the collaborative nature.

It just seems to work so much in so much nicer to be involved in this kind of stuff than it is in other industries that I've been involved in and doing other things have been involved in like for the most part I found a lot of people I was interacting with just to be

fucking assholes to be honest with you and I've just never had that with people that I speak to within Bitcoin and I don't know whether it's that we're all excited about this stuff and you know we think this can change the world and we

know we see the potential and that's why we're all pushing or either we all share a delusion or yeah or we're really rare with it manifesting the idea of sound money through simulating the idea on the Internet, right?

I would like that. Yeah, that's it. And so, you know, obviously you guys are just from speaking out with you now. You are really seriously into this stuff and have been for a while.

What was it that picture interest? How did it happen that, you know, you don't just wake up one day and say, "Oh, I'm going to dedicate all my time and energy to Bitcoin." Like there has to be a reason that sparks the interest.

What happened and when was it? Well, I think for me, the moment when I understood what I really like about Bitcoin, that was basically when I was thinking that there is not many things that reach all the people in the world.

So maybe we have love, we have music, but also money. And if so, everyone basically in the world uses money day in and day out. That's a, I don't know, seven and a half billion people or what.

So every transaction, half of it is money. And if that money is broken or sick or, I don't know, rotten or just bad and deteriorates over time and you can store value in it or people, Europeans coming to Africa can basically flood your market with a glass beads and buy all your stuff and enslave you.

Then that is pretty a big lever that affects all humans and how they live together in a negative way.

And so it's basically the best tool, in my opinion, to make the world a better place by allowing people to store their work in something that does not disappear over time.

Like an apple that rots away if you don't eat it right away, but something that you can really, where you can transport your value and your work and your merit into the future and even inherit to your children.

So if you can do that, then that changes something with the human being. And many economists or philosophers agree that having the ability to plan into the future and have a low time preference as Austrians like to call it is the starting point of civilization.

And if you take that away, the disability, then there is the opposite of civilization, in my opinion, and so that was basically my starting point.

So that's also what the first sticker says, fix the money, fix the world. I think it's a truth. I'm not really sure who kind it in the end. I think Marty Bent of Tales from the Crypt was played a big role in popularize it.

And, but when I heard it, the slogan, it immediately resonated with me because it was a truth that I had known for myself without verbalizing.

Or I just basically had that realization at that time, or earlier, before I could coin it or put it in words, it resonated with me. And I think it's a very precise way to put bitcoins over arching mission.

And when I knew that Bitcoin can be censored and lightning network scales so that we can actually use it also as a medium of exchange. If we work on it for one or two years, then I was, I had no more open questions, actually.

And, and ever since I'm trying to find ways to basically spread the word about Bitcoin, I'm trying to remember myself, which questions did I have, basically, which, which did I need to solve so I can, I could advance to the understanding of Bitcoin that I have today.

And there have been some questions and I think it's worth thinking about this and trying to make it for new coiners as easy as possible to digest and to understand so they can basically follow our path.

So we become more and we were getting to a Bitcoin world sooner. What about you, Kevin? Yeah, for me, actually, for the ideology part of our money started, like with the Ubuntu movement or the idea that the world doesn't need money at all.

And I was completely fascinated by this, like around 2015, it was like as professed by a guy in South Africa, Michael Terringer, and he sort of went around the world giving talks, like explaining, well, Bitcoin.

He wasn't really, he didn't really believe a Bitcoin, he didn't use it at the time. He said money is things like the thing that causes all the problems so we should completely get rid of it.

And I even visited him and went on a whole trip through South Africa, which was quite amazing and I told him, well, what about like these digital tokens? So at the moment, I had mined some light coin and that had my first touch with Bitcoin.

What about Bitcoin? What about these things? They don't really exist. They're not there, but you can still use it as a means of change. Yeah, it's an intermediary, but it doesn't exist.

So it's actually like the perfect replacement of money because it doesn't exist. Money anyway is always just an idea that we share and that it's like a delusion of value, because any object is just valued as much as we believe it is worth.

So why not use imaginary money instead and then see if we can fix the world like that? And then you completely automate away all the things that currently requires an enormous financial system, which is the thing that he was fighting at the moment.

So I guess around that time, my idea started to form that Bitcoin could help and fix the money issues around the world.

A whole bunch of years later, when I finally read the Bitcoin standard, I saved in a moose, then it really landed, because before that I had not studied, I had not heard about Austrian economics, I didn't know what sound money really meant.

I still had the fake idea that the money was a bad thing and the problems originated with money. And then I really learned that the false issuers of depth is the problem and that rent seeking is actually more of a problem than instead of money itself as the idea of exchanging value.

Like you guys were saying earlier, you know, money is basically a tool and that tool is broken at the moment and that is where the issue lies I mean, to my mind I don't see any issue with money itself as long as it is used correctly and it's not corrupted

and I think as far as I can see and part of the reason I'm so interested in this is it's pretty fucking difficult if not impossible to really corrupt this money. And there's no one in the middle being able to benefit from other people suffering and to me it's like it's a real chance at a free market and proper capitalism

you know, whether it plays out and goes the way we think it's going to or not I'm not sure but I feel confident and it sounds like you guys are as well so.

Yeah, so these the heck of a lot better than what we have at the moment with the unauditable like central banks that just do whatever they want like whatever emotion they feel at the moment.

Yeah, I have a question. I want to ask Kevin about. I've been seeing these photos from Utrecht in Netherlands on this account, Bitcoin street art and most of them have one special motive. Can you tell us more about it.

Well, the motive or the like what's mentioned on the sticker, right? Yeah, yeah the sticker that is all around the streets in Utrecht. Yeah, so actually I'm not sure who ordered them but somehow I ended up with a thousand be the change stickers.

It's actually my favorite slogan or saying from all the designs that were out there because it's a bit funny because in Bitcoin you always want to specify the change address to yourself otherwise you're just sending the miners the rest of your money.

So it's educational so be the change already sort of subliminally educates them that okay you should be the change address. I didn't even think of that.

It's awesome that it fits. Yeah, but of course it's a it's a Matt Gandhi quote that tells you to change yourself instead of changing society. So that's where the quote comes from it. Yeah, be the change that you want to see in the world. Exactly.

But it's also Bitcoin is the change, right? And Bitcoiners are the change and the change really comes when Bitcoiners take action.

And that's how I like to basically think about this one but it's really nice that basically what you said with a change address that it has, I must admit I'm a little bit ashamed that I didn't think of it.

It's quite humorous if you know it. So yeah, the thing is in Bitcoin is everything is completely voluntary. So every Bitcoin voluntarily chooses to change what they value and how they what they what they value their wealth in.

It's not forced upon us. So today I saw again, this this old lady from France, shouting here from at the European Central Bank. Things about making the euro work for everyone because this is something that that we're going to have to work with together. I'm like, hell no, I'm not, I'm not choosing to be in the euro.

This is like some people mentioned like this is not my currency, Bitcoin is my currency. Yeah, you should not force a monetary policy upon others just because you like it or just because you decided that that should be the policy that's the best for the world.

You shouldn't force anything on other people. Exactly. Right. Yeah. If you want to be a free person, then things should volunteerism is like the thing you should you should allow everyone to contribute on their own time when when they want.

And however much they want and people should be free to choose what what money they use in their daily lives. There should be the first forced currency that we all have to abide by.

Today I find it really fascinating how many people think that everything would drift into chaos if there wasn't a government that would tell everyone how to act and what to think and what to believe as if they have no brains but can and

it's just mind-poggling but I must say the wool has been pulled over my eyes only a few years ago and I couldn't. I think Bitcoin is also a good tool to basically clear your vision of how the world could be and visualize it and then you get there by using this tool step by step.

And yeah, I love the change sticker. That's why. And it's also in reference to a guy on Twitter. His name, his handle is I am the character. And he was he got a little famous because during the riots in the United States because of the killing of George Floyd.

He was filmed by a camera team and he managed to make to to give a little spontaneous speech that was really on point to the TV until the camera panned away because that was not what the camera team intended that the guy would say.

Like I'm praising Bitcoin and as the solution to all problems. And he is also he was also on the Stefan Levi podcast where he talked about how he's active in his community in the United States I think in Los Angeles.

And so that he was a big inspiration for that sticker because he was basically showcasing also how Bitcoiners should be and really taking action peacefully, educating others, be taking an active role in their local community.

And I think that's really how you bring about change really in your vicinity where you live working with kids and youngsters and helping them with their everyday problems and educating them about the flaws in the economic systems that are prevalent

and also about the solution to this disease. And that is in my opinion Bitcoin and yeah so I am the character is a huge inspiration for this big shout outs to him seizing the opportunity.

Yeah, thank you for that to bring about this amazing sticker today so that we could spread the message. Yeah it's it is amazing when people would do that and put themselves out there because it's quite a challenging thing to do it's

And it's normally met with quite a lot of resistance, even though you're trying to present a solution to a problem, whereas most of the time with almost everything else people are talking about problems, but they're not offering a solution

It's just complaining about these problems, whereas when we actually offer a solution. It's normally it's normally met with. I don't know I found when when I've tried to have conversations with people about this kind of stuff.

They really don't like the idea they don't want to maybe maybe it's they don't want to admit that the current system is stealing from them and some of the issues there. And they just don't want to know they just do almost, you know, maybe one in 20 people will sort of entertain the idea.

They rarely will they actually bother to do any research or go any further into it but I don't know whether it's maybe different in Holland or in Germany or, you know, other parts of the world but certainly in England I find that these conversations are very hard.

Yeah, here in in in Holland, I think, like it's one of the small nations with a lot of Bitcoiners there's there's there's a whole bunch of of developers here.

There's a whole bunch of people that have played important parts in the like the Bitcoin core software that are housed here. And I thought on average there was like a higher number of people have had like touch points or touch moments

with Bitcoin compared to the rest of the world so it's been on that efficient whole bunch of times and so so so whenever they see the sticker, they know they associate the logo with the word Bitcoin.

Yeah, so, yeah, I guess that's why why the sticker actions at this moment in time will help because we'll just give them another impulse another touch points, because they've already heard of it, and probably dismissed it because the price was going to

low and then they thought it was dead and then they see a sticker and I think, oh, wasn't this dead and then maybe maybe a little check again and see if the network is still alive and hey, maybe it will get them to decide to be to change and and and start to participate in this new

network. Yeah, I think penetrating the streets and the real world with Bitcoin is something that can be positive for Bitcoin, because currently there are not many physical stores where we go and pay with Bitcoin.

It's more a rarity. So generally, the whole Bitcoin thing is Bitcoin talk and then Reddit and Twitter and on some sites that are Bitcoin specific, but even major media outlets like New York Times or so don't use lightning

network for payables. So we're not even there yet. And so Bitcoin is really niche, even in the internet currently, and even more so in the real world, where there is not a lot of places, for example, where

generally people, when they think about money, they, they like to know where they can pay with it. And so I'm not undermining here the store of value aspect of money that is intact everywhere and also in the internet and wherever you are.

If you if you have your Bitcoin, then the store of value function is using, you're using it in order to protect yourself from inflation from socialized government overspending that I didn't mandate.

But the medium of exchange is also a critical function of money. And we don't see that too often in the real world. And I think in order to have Bitcoin soon as a global money, this will be something that needs to pick up.

And it's getting easier and easier. And also basically countering the false Bitcoin journalism. If you can call it even that in the mainstream media, I think having a touchpoint in the streets where someone in your local hood has tried to give

a message to you, like peer to peer really on the streets real life on a piece of paper or sticker. That is that I'm hoping people will see a sticker and they are thinking it's for thieves, it does, it doesn't scale and people criminals use it to buy drugs because they're consuming.

They're in the mainstream media all the time and then they see something like freedom money, or something like, I don't know what you think, never sleeps, or make war unaffordable. How does that happen? How does that work? How can be, why is there a Bitcoin logo next to an anti war sticker.

How do you define the state? This is the one I like tweeting on. Yeah, the state is also a deep one. So you really have to understand many, many things to get why Bitcoin helps with that and why it's even a good thing.

So, it's, I think, as Derek Iggy, who is a German speaking Bitcoiner, you may, you may know, for 21 lessons and stuff. He has had a really nice talk at the value of Bitcoin conference this year, where he talked about the different entries to the Bitcoin rabbit hole,

and that it depends on personal preferences, how you were brought up, what kind of experiences you had, what you're passionate about, which entrance might be the right one for you.

Every person has a different entrance to Bitcoin, and I'm sure they will in the future be even more, or bigger variety, it's not going to be the gold box to understand that Bitcoin is the savings technology.

It's not just going to be the Antifa who will understand that Bitcoin can stop wars and fascists and not only the libertarians who will understand that it's important to defend the state.

Not only those people who are mad that their bank is close in the evenings and on the weekends, and doesn't transactions because Bitcoin never sleeps.

That Bitcoin is a freedom money as Alex Gladstein so beautifully explained. Oh, by the way, savings technology I think was coined by Pierre Roshar.

The thread on me has with the honey badger on it has a big appeal to libertarians it's derived from the Gadsden flag, and it's been, and design has been done exactly with the snake.

And now with the honey badger, it's not just don't tread on me it's you can't tread on me because I'm a bad ass honey badger money, and that just doesn't give a fuck and doesn't care.

Just going to do my exactly it's just going to do its thing. And by the way that graphic is also open sourced by an awesome designer. His Twitter name handle is lummy. And he did that honey badger with the Bitcoin on it.

And he open sourced it and so yeah I thought I just use it. So, so it's one of the stickers in Brazil it's been translated to slightly different message.

But it in Brazil it's now a secorante, which means it doesn't get corrupted. Because corruption is such a big thing in South America and especially in Brazil. And the Brazilian Bitcoiners said we need to have now a secorante.

And we don't really need to make war and affordable because Brazil has never been in a war and it's not really appealing to the people here. So they said we should have a cover comagastancia, which means ants unnecessary government waste overspending

kind of thing. So it's kind of like different the state a little bit. And the Spanish library, it has, for example, this bank, a listado, which is especially popular among the South Americans, especially in Argentina, because they have also a lot of problems

with currency devaluation and one crisis after the other. So you can see in the different countries where the stickers pop up, which worries are the biggest maybe, or what resonates with the people about the coin the most.

So I like to think of it about that way. Maybe we will see a structure there sometime because you know all the Bitcoiners are free who participate to choose the message that resonates with them. And it's interesting which ones they're choosing in different regions.

Maybe it's something to do with psychology right of what kind of state you're in. So here in Europe where we are, there is this very little government oppression.

The only thing that happens is that, well here in the Netherlands, they have this anti money laundering laws that are now forcing, like Dutch Bitcoin companies to pay something like 20,000 euro in fees per year.

To like some big bank to do all sort of KYC practices to figure out who is trading Bitcoin and who's sending what to whom and that's sort of the offense. Yeah, I'm dealing with here but in the yeah and the other countries did the government like even more openly corrupt where we just literally steal money from the treasuries.

Yeah, I've often said like here in England, we are masters of corruption but we're also masters of hiding it. Yeah, so you don't really see it. No one really notices until you look until you really look.

It's everywhere and they just, I guess they've been doing doing it longer than almost anywhere else and they just, they're masters at doing it and keeping it quiet. What do you know about the city of London and is it true, like the rumor I heard and I tell it to my colleagues sometimes and then they laugh like you're crazy.

If the Royal Queen of England visits the city of London is like this the city in the city London where you're right now. You have to kiss like the hand and the ring of one of these guys with his mayor over there is it true.

I don't know about that. I don't know about that to be honest. I know that it operates very differently to everywhere else and there's a lot of dirty shit that goes on there but I don't know.

I don't know about that one and I would assume that even if it was like an old law rule rule.

Yeah, but we have weird like that there are laws here where that there are some like, you know, if someone from the south goes up to like a part of Manchester or Leeds and tries to intrude into their property they can legally shoot them with a bow and arrow.

That's still a law that stands and there's all these sort of weird old laws that, you know, are still here so it could be. I specifically like the ones that like that involve royalty and like the big financial elite.

So like the city of London is like the location in your country. It's where like all the big corporations or the biggest financial corporations are situated. It's like the power of trade and they, I think they feel they're above the common men law.

I think they believe they can get away with whatever. They don't believe it. I think they can. They can. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They behave. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, and it's thick. It's, you know, this is, this is what we're talking about. This is the whole thing is, you know, this shouldn't happen.

And it's just, that's what I like about what you guys are doing. It's subtly just sort of reminding people and letting people know that this other system exists and give them little, little sort of bits of insight and maybe peaking their interest.

And I think that's such a nice way of doing it because, like I said earlier, people, if you go and say to someone, this is what's happening in the city of London. This is how the banks are operating. This is how they work with the cartels. This is how they're stealing from you. This is how all of it goes on and you map it out for them.

They're either just going to call you a conspiracy theorist. Or it's going to be too much at once that you'll overload them with on information, and especially on crazy sounding and the conservation.

Exactly. It's crazy things going on. But if you tried to report on it, the people will call you crazy because they got cognitive dissonance and they don't want to hear it.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, no one wants to know because the truth is, like, if Bitcoin didn't stand and I knew what I knew about some of the things that go on in the world and how it really works, I'd be so depressed.

I would just think fucking hell with this. There's no way out of this. We're finished. Like this is bad. I don't agree with you, Max, but I want to disagree for a second. I think the people want to know. It's just been, they haven't been aware of Bitcoin yet.

And because if you have a problem that, you know, it has no solution, then do you really want to dive deep into this solution or into this problem? Or would you rather go to the pub and watch some reds versus Manchester game and have a beer with your friends and chase some skirts and some easy girls and not build a family?

I mean, the happy end is really Bitcoin because if the problem was as it is without Bitcoin, then it would be pretty depressing and I would probably go back to what I've been doing before Bitcoin, namely being a high time preference, instant gratification monkey

that's been hopping around raves and discos and parties and really having, I don't know, didn't even know what I'd be doing tomorrow or what I did the day before and Bitcoin changed that in a way.

So, I think if you have a solution like Bitcoin, then people are really interested in learning more about it. They need to be made aware of that there is a solution and then we have to make it easy for them to get in step by step,

because it's a lot to take in. And if you rush things, you will scare people away, they will feel stupid and they're not yet, not many are ready for defunct estate, probably.

If you understand defunct estate, build the road, or what does it mean? Fuck banks. I mean, the bank I'm paying my rent all the time for 20 years with my bank and I'm getting my pay from my employer to my bank and my bank even credit.

That's really convenient for me. Why should I, why is it fucked banks? I mean, okay, most of those who paid attention to 2008 know why or most of, and all of those who read the Genesis block know why.

I applied anarchism. What does it mean? I thought anarchism is really bad. I mean, it means chaos, right? And capitalism means always chronic capitalism, which is all not true. And these are misconceptions and these words have, I don't know, a little bit burned.

Just to win these words back, because the current steps behind them are actually really good concepts that all only have been fought by the powers that be for centuries now.

And just think of the anarchists in the United Kingdom or those in Spain in the 19th century, 20th century that have been sold out by the right wing people and also the left wing people and all the authoritarians as I like to call them.

Anarchist movements have always had the problem of, yeah, it's difficult to have no rulers. And it's also, it's been impossible to have money without a central issuer until 2008.

And power holds so much money holds so much power, if you have control over that. So that is something that powerful actors don't like to see going away out of their hands. You know, that's just horrible. It's the end for them. It's the end.

Yeah, we give them the alternative. So we give them rules. It's the consensus rules. And we take away the rulers. That's it. We can do it now. We can do it now. Thanks to Bitcoin. Well, I like that you guys are confident and it fills me with confidence to speak to other Bitcoiners and I do every day get more confident about this stuff.

And I really do feel that this is going to happen and that it's kind of almost becoming an inevitability with just just the basic fact that this stuff is usable.

It works. It works all the time. And the incentives are aligned in such a way that it makes sense for people to get involved, especially with all the crazy shit that's going on in the world.

And I just kind of see this as a ticking time bomb and, you know, people are going to get involved with it. It just depends how long they hold out and stay on the system they're currently on.

But I feel incredibly privileged to be part of it now and to be speaking to people like you guys who are passionate about it. And yeah, I mean, thanks. Thanks for what you're doing and spreading the messages. It's amazing what you're doing.

Yeah, joining on the fun Max want to see some photos from London soon. And yeah, Bitcoin's utility is just the most amazing, amazing thing. I have ever experienced when it comes to technology in my life. It's, it's just absolutely mind growing how, how high the utility of Bitcoin is.

Coupled with the absolute scarcity of it. It's just such a powerful tool for a person to have. And yeah, I mean, we're not, I can't imagine not being, not being without a smartphone currently right so 20 years ago, I had no idea how useful the smartphone would be, but Bitcoin is even more useful than that.

It's just built on it. It's in your pocket. And you can send it around the world. It's just beautiful.

Yeah, it's awesome. And yeah, I will, I will get involved. I'm not yet to really use lightning to be honest because I'm stingy with my Sats, but now that I've got the node up and running, I definitely want to have a go and join the fun and get some fuck the bank stickers everywhere.

I won't be putting them there, but I'm sure someone else will perform. Yeah, just heard about some kids in the street. They'll love it. They figure out what to do with them faster than you can tell them.

Oh, yeah. All right, guys. Well, is there anything else that we haven't covered that you guys wanted to and I've missed off or any sort of shilling that you'd like to do, shill away, let us know about any projects that might be coming up or anything that you guys are doing.

Yeah, I think there's a couple of people that deserve some more attention that I wanted to mention. It's the Von Wierdom Shores NATO. It's like a new podcast started by a Bitcoin journalist and a Bitcoin developer Bitcoin core developer here in the Netherlands is English podcast, and they really go into the technicals.

There's some crazy stuff that's happening in the inside to Bitcoin protocol. If you if you want to dive a bit deeper. Yeah, definitely. Can you, could you send me a link for that? And I can put it in the show notes. So I'll definitely, yeah, send you a link.

The Bitcoin magazine guys. Okay. Yeah, perfect. Yeah, I have a dig into that. That sounds awesome. And any other mentions or projects or anything. Yeah, so definitely check out ideas like claims.com.

If you know someone who could be interested in learning about Bitcoin, recommend the Bitcoin awareness game where they can earn their first Bitcoin without having to spend their usual money.

And, and they can check it out. They can learn it and they can can can get their hands on it. If you're a Bitcoin who is a little bit more advanced and like to see. Yeah, more Bitcoin street art in the world. Maybe consider donating to the crowd fund.

That basically pays out the photographers around the world. So currently the game has crowd funded 1.5 million satoshis. Approximately until the 8th of August and the payout has just crossed 1 million satoshis today. So we're at two thirds and we can use a little bit more support.

The game keeps going. And yeah, apart from that, check out Raspy Blitz. If you're interested in building a full note and getting your hands on and being self sovereign and taking your financial self defense tool and putting it to good use.

Then I think the Raspy Blitz project is the best way to go. And it has many awesome apps on it that every Bitcoin should have in his repertoire.

And I think that's that's enough with my shells for today. Thanks for having us Max. And if you like to follow me on Twitter, that's underscore pretty flacko on Twitter and the handle of ideas are like flames is at ideas like flames.

And the Bitcoin street art channel is at BTC street art. Okay, perfect. And Kevin, do you want to actually show yours as well, please? Oh sure. Yeah, if you're interested in what I post on Twitter, you can follow me at at Kevin R for V with the number four.

Yeah, sure. Follow me chat with me. Perfect. All right. And yeah, again, I'll link all of this stuff in the show notes and anything I'll send, I'll send a copy out to you guys before I post it live just to make sure I've got everything on there.

But yeah, anyone who hasn't checked out ideas like flames just go and check it out. It's an awesome website and I love what you guys are doing so thanks for joining me and I'm sure we will speak again soon.

Thank you Max. Thanks for having us Max. All right, nice to speak to you guys.