EP55 Bitcoin podcast with @RD_btc

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.

♪ It's going to work ♪

Now, what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison. Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.

Yeah.

All right, you ungovernable misfits. I'm your host, Max. Everybody knows that Bitcoin is useless, worthless, and doomed to fail. But what if everyone's wrong? What if it's the system that is doomed to fail?

Join me as I speak to some of the brightest people in this space, and deliver to the deepest, darkest depths of the Bitcoin rabbit hole. Today, I had the pleasure of speaking to another Bitcoiner.

I spoke to R.D. Everyone who knows him on Bitcoin Twitter were known for his amazing memes, but it was really good for me to sit down and dig a little bit deeper, get to know the man behind the memes, and I'm very glad I did.

It was a great interview. I think you're going to really enjoy it. We talked about Bitcoin, obviously. We talked about the future. The timing for this one was absolutely perfect. So thanks again to R.D. for coming on.

Thank you to Coin Floor for sponsoring the show, and thank you to everyone who's been writing in, asking questions, writing good reviews on iTunes, and sending this round to your friends and family, and maybe it's a little bit easier to onboard them now with the all-time highs, and well done everyone for sticking in,

suffering through the bear market, who very much deserve what's coming. Enjoy. R.D., welcome to the show. This has been a very, very long time coming. I've been looking forward to this for a long time, trying to coax you across a bit by bit, and I finally snagged you at what feels like the perfect time.

How are you? Hi Max. Yeah, thanks for having me on, mate. Sorry, it's taken so long. I think you were the first person to ask me, and I've done a few, but they've all sort of been pushed on me, like I couldn't even say no to all the others.

They felt really bad that I hadn't come on yours and you were the first person to ask me. So, yeah, and I'm really happy to be on me. Thank you for having me. Well, I was hoping to take your virginity, but you've been warmed up for me.

I actually listened to one of them you did with the other 21ies and boys, and, yeah, it was really good. And you were like, "Oh, I'm not sure." Like, "I don't know what I'm going to say."

And then I listened to that, and I was like, "No, you're definitely coming on." You've been lost to say. So, yeah, no, it's great to have you on, and obviously we chat with the third bit in the background, but I just thought it'd be really cool to talk through some of the stuff you've been doing.

I mean, anyone on Bitcoin, Twitter knows you for me. You've got a lot of stuff for your memes and everything that you've got on there. You've got some absolute belters at the moment, and had a perfect time as well, because when we'd originally spoken, you were like, "Oh, you know, it'd be nice when we're getting close to all-time highs."

And, well, here we are. Yeah, I know. I was actually watching the prices today, and I was thinking, "I can't believe it. It's happening today." When we said, "Let's do it near all-time high."

Yeah, that's where we are right now, pretty much. Yeah. Well, I was waiting, because I knew that we were getting close, so I just stacked, just did a massive stack this morning, just so I knew I'd definitely get you on.

So that's me moving the markets. Well done, mate, well done. Bigger chat. How are you feeling about it, then? Are you feeling short? Are you feeling like you haven't clamored enough or are you feeling like, "Okay, no, I've got enough.

I'm happy. I'm ready for this ball run." I chuffed a bit, mate. I felt like I was positioned probably about three months ago, like more than where I wanted to be, and I just constantly DCA in now.

Got where I wanted to be, DCA in for the rest of it for the next 10 years for me now. Very nice. Yeah, and, like, of course, everyone's going to look back and go, "Oh, I wish I bought more.

I wish I bought more then." But the truth is, you know, I couldn't have, you know, I haven't had all the days for a few years and put a lot of things off to get myself where I am now. So, yeah, I'm there, mate.

I'm ready. Let's ride it all the way up. I like it. Proper, proper, low-time preference thinking, and it pays off. And I love those kinds of stories that I love to hear when people have gone through that sacrifice, you know, something I've been doing myself, and everyone, you know, everyone who I'm close to and speaking to and, you know,

in the background, the true believers, you know, everyone is living that life of, like, you know, I need new tires. Oh, they can go a little bit longer. I actually need some shoes without fucking holes in them.

No, they can hold out, and we've been doing it for years, and, yeah, it's a nice feeling. Yeah, it's, yeah, I was thinking, because, obviously, I do the memes, everyone knows me from my memes, but I want to tweet more, but I can never get the tweet right.

I can never put the words into a tweet. It's quite an art, really, not in a good tweet. And, yeah, I was thinking this morning, like, how do I tweet it like, you know, the sacrifices you have to make to get yourself in this position?

And I can do it. I can get the words. I can get the words right, but it was in my head just trying to get out, but it didn't quite get there. It's hard, isn't it, to put things into words, but I guess that's why you do your memes, because I've been having a look through some of yours recently,

and they just cracked me up, and some of them, like, you know, the one you just sent as well with the phoenix and these sort of ones. They're just, you don't need words for that. Like, it's so clear, it's so concise, and it's so powerful.

For someone like me, like, I'm a dyslexic fuck. Like, you know, it takes me forever to read anything, you know, and I switch things around, and, like, nothing makes sense, but that's why I love all of you, and I love memes, because, yeah, a picture of a thousand words.

And I think, especially now, like, what we're coming into with what feels like a serious bull run, it's going to be incredible having those sort of memes to bring new people into the space, and also just to shit on all the no-coiners that have been winding us up for the last couple of years.

Yeah. Payback time. Exactly. I go back to what you said there about being dyslexic. I'm dyslexic, too, and I think that's, you know, part of the mean, you know, the mean thing for me is because I can't get my words out easily, not onto paper or on the screen anyway.

I've, yeah, I just feel like I can get, I can express myself in a meme so much better than I can in words, certainly written words anyway. Do you have a sort of process for it? Is it something where it's like a bit of a release for you or there's things going around in your head and you're trying to then piece them together

and, like, come to a conclusion with your thoughts, or, like, what's that process? Because I see it as, you know, it's an art form. Yeah. It literally comes out. I don't dwell on it. It just, if an idea hits my brain, I've got to do it there and then, and I've got probably about 100 memes I haven't tweeted.

Really? Yeah. Just because, like, I've made them, and then sometimes I look at them and go, "Is that any good?" Don't know. Or other times I go, "I'll save that one." Just like the one I've tweeted today with the Phoenix, I literally held that.

I've had that for, like, I made that about four or five months ago. And when I looked at it, I just went, "That's an all-time high meme." That's it. That is my all-time high meme. And, yeah, so I held onto it until today, and I don't know whether we've quite touched it or not.

We're about $100,000 short, something like that. $100 short. Not quite there yet. I feel like we are $100,000 short of where we should be, but yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that's what happens with me.

My cat's coughing in the back. Yeah. Well, I've got my dog fucking around eating something. He shouldn't be at my feet, which I'm having to ignore, a little sod, but he's celebrating today.

He's a hodler himself, so he's just charging around the house happy. That's it. With these memes, you know, you're saying you have, like, a hundred, and they haven't come out yet, and some of them are because of a timing thing.

You also have ones where, you know, maybe you feel like, okay, I'm enjoying making this, and I feel like I'm almost there, but then something distracts you, and you'll jump into something else, and you'll then come back to that later.

Yeah. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I probably, I don't like not finishing things, so I'd rather finish it, but then if a new idea that's better than the one that I'm currently working on, I'll probably run with that first, and then sometimes they just get forgotten about,

and I say, okay, so I work for myself as well, so not only am I, you know, doing this in my spare time, but I run my own business. I'm self-employed, so I have a lot to think about and organize with that as well, so that takes up a lot of my brain space, just generally, you know what I mean?

So, you know, they don't, they don't work very well hand in hand, to be honest, because one thing can distract me from the other, you know what I mean? And it's all down to my self-control on what I work on and when.

So it's not ideal, but I love doing the memes, and I can't help myself really. You know, I can't stop it, and when I, you know, when I get going, I just have to go with it. I also love my job, you know, I've loved working for myself, doesn't really feel like a job,

so I'm doing two things that I'm really quite passionate about, and, yeah, they... Maybe Bitcoin is taking a bit more of my mind space, if you like, just lately. Certainly this year with the pandemic and the lockdown and everything, it gave me more free time where I didn't need to think about work,

so that's kind of how it all got started really, I think. Yeah, I mean, the pandemic stuff is something we haven't really talked about in the background before. What's your feeling on it? Because, you know, I don't get to speak to many other Brits on the show, I speak to a lot of Americans mainly, and, you know, it is different.

How are you finding it? Like, what are you seeing from the normies? How are people reacting? You know, where do you see this all going? Because I do think that we do live, you know, obviously we live in this Bitcoin bubble.

Most Bitcoiners will speak to it like, "I'll give a shit, mate. I'll do what I want." Like, with everything in life, but, you know, what are you seeing from everybody else? Yeah, well, it's interesting because, because of my job, I go around and I see different people from different backgrounds.

So, it's not like a normal job where you see the same people every day, you know, or the same industry, the same, you know, you're all the same, you know, if you're doing the same job, you sort of live in a similar life if you're all sort of on the same kind of salary, you know what I mean?

So, I get that because I certainly did in my old job, but since I started doing this, and I've been doing it 12 years now, what I do, and I can literally be on a councilor's state for one job and drive to my next job, and it's a country manor house, you know what I mean?

So, and I go to everyone in between as well. So, I get to talk to different people from different backgrounds, different sort of wealth classes, if you like. I think it gives them quite a unique perspective on everything.

Because I get to talk to people from sort of every different, you know... more of a life. Taking all that into consideration, I've got to say not that many people that I go to are particularly worried, scared.

Don't get me wrong, some are, some are really scared. But what I have found is because a lot of my clients are elderly, sort of 65. At retirement, over retirement age, I'd say most of them are my private clients.

And they're not that bothered. They honestly, I can't be bothered with all this, these marks. You know what I mean? And then I've had a good life, I don't care if that bloody virus gets me.

And I've just been good for you, you know what I mean? I'm glad that people aren't getting too worked up about it. I'd say the majority of the people I see are not. They're certainly, as the longer it goes on, and the more restrictions they're putting on us, getting more and more fed up with it, which I am as well.

But yeah, that's the general feeling I get from it. Me personally, I've always treated it like I'm going to be respectful to how other people feel about it. Yeah, because most of the time I'm going into other people's houses and it's their house.

And if they want me to wear a mask, I'll wear a mask. Do you know what I mean? It's not a big deal for me just to wear a mask. It's their house. If it was my house, I'd make the rules as well.

Do you know what I mean? So quite often I turn up in places and they don't want me to wear one. So I've always approached it that way to be respectful of other people and how they feel about it.

I haven't been going out much anyway. Me and Self-Banked met for lunch. I knew you lunched us out on that day, Max, isn't it? Yeah, I know. I missed out as well. That was a good sound make.

Yeah, I knew it would be as well. I was gutted and it wasn't too far from me. I knew it was going to be a good one. But, yeah, we went out for lunch. We chilled. We weren't worried about it.

And, yeah, just generally, I just look at the numbers, mate. I look at the numbers and I get 99.99 chance at someone my age dying of it. Yeah. I'm fit and healthy. And I'm like, I'm so sorry, but I am not scared of this one bit.

I got more chance of being in a car accident tomorrow than dying of that. So, that's my feeling. Now, if I was a bit older, I might have a bit of a different opinion on it. And, personally, I would probably make different choices.

I would maybe get the shop in order instead of going to the shops. Just little things like that. But, you know, being where I am in my life and being fit and healthy and generally looking after myself enough to keep myself healthy.

Yeah, that's the way I look at it. So, you know, I don't have much fear of it. I don't have any fear of it. But I'm just trying to, like I said, be respectful of what other people feel about it.

I am conscious that what they are feeling about it could be somewhat manipulated by the media. Just a bit. Yeah. So, and I try not to get into those discussions with people because, quite honestly, I'd probably

offend them if I told them what I felt about it, if they were particularly scared of it. How do you cope with that, though? Because, like, it sounds like we're very much on the same page.

I'm the same. I'll be respectful if someone wants me to wear a mask in their home. Like, you know, I might be a bit abrasive at times, but I'm not a complete twat. Like, I'll be respectful.

But I don't know how to close my mouth when I hear what really gets me as, like, stupidity really winds me up. Yeah. When it's stupidity that's actually going to affect people's lives. Like, when people are like, oh, yeah, well, everyone should be forced to have a vaccine.

Which, it feels like that's coming. I find it hard not to be like, listen to what you're saying. Yeah. You're saying that people don't own their own body. Here's the numbers. What the fuck are you thinking?

Have you read 1984? Have you ever had an original thought in your brain? Or do you just sit in front of the BBC all day and just lap it up and believe everything you're told? Like, it's a really difficult, that line of, like, you have to interact with people outside

of the Bitcoin community and, like, people who don't have our views because there's not that many of us. But equally, how do you restrain yourself? Or is that your outlet of, like, right, I close my door, I come in, I make a meme.

And, like, just forget about what's going on outside. A lot of my clients know me quite well. So, a lot of them are almost like friends. So, I can express my opinion with most of them. So, it's not an issue most of the time.

What I tend to do is, if I hear somebody say something, it sounds a bit like what you do as well. But hear somebody say something like, you know, everyone should have the vaccine. You know, we should force everyone to have, like, what I'd rather do is throw a question at them to try and coax a bit of, I can't think of the word, but...

Thought? Yeah, thought. But, you know, like, to question what they're saying. That's how I try to do it. And I've done that with Bitcoin. So, when I talk to my clients, because believe it or not, I talk to my clients about Bitcoin all the time as well.

I can believe that. And I do the same thing with them, but rather than just like throwing Bitcoin at them in their face, I'd rather get them to start thinking about money, what money is, and, you know, what is good money and what's bad money.

And start just getting them to start questioning those things before I start talking about Bitcoin. Most of them know I'm into it anyway, and they probably know I'm setting them up. But that's my technique these days, rather than just go, well, Bitcoin fixes that.

Yeah. A lot of people that, you know, normies don't like it. Have fun stowing, Paul. That's a good one. Yeah. They love that. They love that. Yeah. But that's what I try to do these days.

I go to some really interesting people, and even they can, I've had like discussions about Bitcoin with a lot of my clients, and they've, you know, pulled up questions that I haven't asked, and I've gone, you know what, I don't know the answer to that, and then I'll go away

and find it, and then come back to them, or the next time I see them anyway. And I'll say, I've got the answer to that. And yeah, it's even made, because people have asked me these questions, it's made me learn more, because of what, yeah, if I've got caught where I don't know the answer to something,

I don't want that to happen again, so I want to know the answer to it, so I'll go dig in. And I normally end up going a little bit further down the rabbit hole. Yeah. It's, I don't know about for you, but for me, it's quite often like the super technical stuff where, where I'll not get caught out.

I'm like, I sort of roughly know the answer to that, but I can't be specific enough to actually sound convincing, and then it makes you feel uncomfortable yourself, because you're like, shit, I'm all in on this thing, like I better know this.

Yeah. Yeah, it's true. And yeah, I understand the technical stuff well enough to explain it to someone that's not technical, if that makes sense, but then if I took it to the next level and somebody that was more technical than me, you know, then I might be a little bit left a bit wanting.

It's an endless rabbit hole, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. You never reach the bottom. Never. No. It's something that, I mean, that's certainly for me, like the technical stuff I've really been trying the last, especially the last six months to wrap my head around really focusing

the show more on privacy, so that people can actually think about these things like we're talking about what if vaccines are forced? What if all this stuff starts happening? Well, if all that stuff starts happening, then we'd better make sure that we have some freedom money because you're going to fucking need it.

And so it's been a real journey trying to, yeah, just wrap your head around like, okay, how do you run a node? How do you use the cold card? How do you look into multi-sick, how do you do all this stuff?

Yeah. Like you said, no matter what you do, there's always another step, there's always like someone will say, oh, yeah, well, you know, did you run that over tour? Did you do this? And you're like, Jesus, like, I don't, I don't know where that, that perfect privacy comes

unless you are like, dedicating your whole time to this, like, you know, it's so hard. Oh, yeah. It is, but I think it's hard because of the system we live in at the moment. So we're going to have a privacy war.

It's already started, really. Bitcoin is part of it. And the winner, I believe, will be on the side of privacy. But it's going to happen slowly because of how difficult it is at the moment to have more

privacy because everything, all the rails at the moment are non-privacy, you know, designed. So, you know, and everyone's on those rails. So you've literally got to get off the rail track to go, to go private.

Do you know what I mean? So what's happening is that private things, they'll build their own rails, just like Bitcoin is and other things, more private ways to use the internet. All this is being built.

And I just think it'll win because I think it's, it feels to me like a battle between neither and I just think a good will win. Do you know what I mean? That's how I feel about it. And I'm always an optimistic, the glass is half full kind of person.

So, you know, maybe naively. I don't know, but I always believe that, you know, it is going to be better. That good will triumph over evil. It's an interesting way of looking at it, actually, because when you really boil it down, you know, there's a lot of things in Bitcoin where things are really boiled down, where you really get

to the root of things. And that's how you can clearly see why this is a better system or how things are going to play out. But looking at it like that, like you've just described as good and evil really makes a lot of sense.

Because it does feel that way, like unless we're complete lunatics, all of us in this space, and somehow we're just completely wrong, and somehow surveillance is great and authoritarian. Governments are great, and all the stuff that's going on is for our, you know, is best for people, which I'm so fucking sure that we're not wrong on it.

It does feel that there are so many people that care. There's so much, it's like people are in this with their hearts, it feels like. Yeah. And the other side is, you know, it's money, it's power, it's control.

Yeah. It's dominance. And this space, although, yeah, people can be really hard on each other and, you know, we can be a ruthless bunch. But at the end of the day, like most people here with open hearts, like I'm willing to hold the line, I'm willing to bet on what I believe in.

I'm willing to put the work in, I'm willing to help other people. I want to see freedom. No one's looking for more control, all they want is control of themselves. So, yeah, when you boil that down, I do think you're right.

And it gives me a lot of hope speaking to people like you who are hopeful, because there's a lot of pessimism as well. Like when you really dig deep and start to understand how things work and what we're fighting against, like it can be pretty depressing.

It can be pretty depressing unless you have that hope. And that's what Bitcoin is. I think Bitcoin is hope to so many of us. Yeah, and I'm actually working on a meme at the moment that I haven't tweeted it because it's quite a precarious one.

Because it's Pandora, the meme is Pandora's Box. And it's Bitcoin is inside Pandora's Box. I don't know if you know the story of Pandora's Box, but there wasn't much good that came out of the box, basically.

But the last thing, so there's different versions of the story, but one version, which I think is sort of held as the main version that people believe is the original.

The original answer is that Pandora went back to the box after all the bad things had come out, and there was one thing left, and it was Bitcoin, and it was hope, and hope is Bitcoin is hope.

So that's how I'm looking at the meme. It's one that I'm stewing on at the moment. I made it really quick, but I'm looking at it and I'm thinking is, I think I'm just going to have to throw it out there and see what kind of reception it gets really good.

I'm sure if Bitcoin Tina doesn't like it, he's going to rip my nads off, but it really nads off one day or another anyway. It's quite a regular occurrence with me, to be honest, but I love him. He's great.

But yeah, so stewing on that one, I have actually been talking to Robert Reed and other about it a bit as well, because he's working on a piece, this next piece, and I don't know what he said now, but he said it was quite relevant to what he was working on.

So yeah, we were kind of brainstorming on it a little bit, so I think I am just going to have to chuck it out there and see what happens. Yeah, you never know what's going to stick. You just never know. Sometimes it's just the most random ones that really take off, and yeah, you just, you can't know. I guess a lot of it's timing as well.

Was it you who did that quad for one? Yeah. Oh, no. Oh, no. Yeah, that one. That, it caught me just at the right time. I was flicking through my phone and that came up and I watched it so many times, I was absolutely creasing them.

And she was like, that's from, that's a TikTok. And I was like, what? And she was like, that's a TikTok. That was fucking hilarious. That guy. I like, because I think it's because I'd just, I'd been off Twitter for a few days. I'd seen him just having that interview being just an arrogant twat.

And then I saw that and I was just like, brilliant, nailed it. Well, I love, I love getting, I love getting the troll. The bear's back. I love getting them back, man.

And I, like, I tweeted something with him in. I literally threw a reel. It was a funny meme. And I just threw it together in like a couple of minutes. It wasn't something I worked on for very long.

And I needed, I think I needed like three or four characters, you know, bears, if you like, Bitcoin bears. And I thought, oh yeah, he's been slagging it off. He'll do our chucking into it.

And he blocked me. It was the first time I'd even tweeted, you know, at him. And he got me straight away. And I thought, right, you're going to get it now.

What a sensitive soul. Yeah, yeah. Like, fair enough, if I've been trolling him for weeks, months, years, then, you know, but I thought, I didn't deserve it for that. So, yeah, no, I really, I must, I think I tweeted about, I must have tweeted at least five to ten memes with him in.

And then that one, I don't know how that one came out of my brain, but it did. It's so funny. Yeah. And, yeah, it was, that was been really, literally someone, so I got my computer screen up in front of me and someone just retweeted it again.

It's been retweeted every day for, I don't know how long it's been going now about three or four weeks, I think. Can you resend it to me outside of the chat? Because I was scrolling through and couldn't find it again. But, yeah, I'll just, I'll watch that again, because it's just fucking happy crying. That one is very good.

Yeah, it's funny, it is so funny. Yeah, like, I don't know. And I didn't actually expect a lot from that meme, I'll be honest. Like, sometimes when I'm putting one together, I'm thinking, this is going to be so good. And then I tweet it, and it is good.

And everybody loves it. And I mean, and it just hits the sweet spot. And when I was doing that, that one with Keith, I literally, I have no idea it was going to be that popular, and it just keeps rolling that one.

Yeah, it's the best when they're really dismissive and arrogant, and tell people how smart they are and what they've achieved, where you're just like, oh, this is going to age so badly for you, this is perfect.

Do you make note of them? Or are they just there when you're back in your head like, I'm going to fucking do him. He's going to get it.

Well, if, yeah, I'd sort of, there's like a few in there, there's like your Warren Buffett Peter shit. Joe, they're the prime suspects. Yeah, they're always there. Oh, I need to put someone in. Yeah, it's got to be Warren Buffett this time, I mean, it's, it's, yeah, it is, they are easy targets, but it's a bit of fun.

I mean, it is, it's a bit of fun for me. And I think, really, you can tell that it's, it's humor. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I never really take it too far. I don't think so anyway, maybe sometimes I do.

That's what it is. And I like to try and mix it up a bit with like the one I've tweeted today, the Phoenix one. That's more serious. Yeah, I mean, there's a real meaning to it. And yeah, it's to, it is to fire people up and, you know, get the, get the passion going.

Yeah, I like to mix it up. Doesn't all, it's not all funny stuff, but you know, sort of serious stuff as well. Have, have any other bears that you've made memes for or about ever contacted you or argued with you or, or do you just get a block and that's it?

Yeah, no, none of them have ever messaged me, not one, privately, very, I don't even think any have responded to any of my memes, but certainly a few have blocked me.

The, the other firm favorite and obviously I'm biased, but the one with 21ism that you've worked on that one just had me so hyped the Bitcoin moods one.

Oh, yeah, that one for anyone who's listening and hasn't seen that just go on 21ism. I think it's the pin tweet. It's so good. Like I saw parts of it in the making and it was coming up and then when we did the launch day.

So that's so the night before I'd recorded with Matt Odell and I was like a little fan boy and I've got really excited and got absolutely pissed out of my head had way too much whiskey threw up in the morning like a little bitch.

And that was the launch day and I could barely move, but that's what got me through the day. That was, I was just like, yes, yes, yes, it's just such a good one. And the who was chosen for it as well was perfect. How did that collaboration sort of come about and what was it like working on that one.

So most of it was bad as I did. So he, he literally said to me that these three, you know, these faces. What do you think? Because I, yeah, great. Yeah.

And he even sent me the faces that he wanted me to use and then left it to me to then put them on and, you know, position them. And then we talked about who, you know, which bears we were going to use and we sort of brainstormed on that because, because bad as I completely made his mind up on that.

So, yeah, we, we bounced off of each other on that one a bit and came to, came to the ones we used. And yeah, it was, it was quite fun. Like, it's funny because when you're making it, you don't realise how good it is until after you watch it because it's quite a painstaking process put in those faces on.

You know, you've got to do almost every frame frame by frame. So, it's not until you've done it all. And then you play the thing and then you're like, yeah, this is so good.

It was just, yeah, it was the mix of who you've chosen. The music, obviously, was just banging the just, yeah, everything about it just fit and just worked perfectly. And yeah, it was just perfect for the launch.

It was, it was incredible. It was, I was sending it around. And even like no coiners who know a little bit about finance or like could pick out a couple of the bears and stuff, even they were like, that's fucking brilliant and all right in back and sharing it. So, yeah, that was a good one.

Yeah, that was fun. That was really fun. Yeah, but 21 isn't, you know, it's great in it. It's just really, I was blown away by the quality of the website.

Yeah, that's nuts. Yeah, Mr Crown is an incredibly patient man and so skilled. Just, yeah, it is absolutely mind-blowing and everyone's just putting him through it and asking for a million changes and it was all down to the wire and he just, yeah, absolutely amazing.

But yeah, all of the group. And I think, I think that's one of the things like in this space, I'm always blown away by it. Like, I get to speak to a lot of people, obviously, because of the show, but I'm always blown away by how multi-talented people are.

You sometimes don't realize you'd be speaking to someone who may be there in finance and your speech about that, but then actually they're an incredible dev or they have these editing skills or, you know, all these different web design and they're such a talented bunch.

And I love the fact that people will all jump in and work together and collaborate on things and obviously there's this, you know, there's something that binds us together and we're all like obsessed with Bitcoin and, you know, like you said earlier, that kind of defeating evil and it feels

like there's sort of like a band of brothers or like a group where we're like, right, you know, yeah, and it's just, have you ever sort of come across anything like that before in life in, you know, outside of this?

No, no, no, no, it blows me away as well. Everyone is happy to help you out, discuss ideas, and if you need to discuss other things as well, we all just sort of seem to come together, so, you know, it's a community, it's what it is, isn't it?

We're all just looking out for each other and it's really something quite special, really. It's hard to put in the words for me. Yeah, yeah, I think it's almost impossible to, unless you are maybe like a breed love or someone like that who's just a wordsmith, maybe you'd be able to do it, but, you know, I certainly can't.

And it's nice, it's nice to be a part of, it's nice to feel like there's something worth fighting for. And, you know, I'm really interested to hear from you. Like, we've chatted in the background.

A fair bit, obviously, like, I've seen your work and it's incredible and, you know, I love the memes that you're doing and stuff, but from the little bit that we've spoken in the background, I can tell this is seriously, seriously important to you.

And, you know, that you wear your heart on your sleeve with this kind of stuff. And I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on a little bit more into the future. Let's just say that we're right and let's just say that things go the way that we're thinking they're going to go.

How do you see it all unfolding and, like, do you have any not really price predictions, but do you have any predictions on how things play out and whether we do go into this kind of citadel world or, like, however, how everything goes, do you think deeply about the future?

Not the distant future too much. I'm more of a kind of living the day as a sort of person I am, really. I never look back. I'm not the kind of person that lives in the past at all, but I'm generally planning for my immediate future, personally.

So, when I look at Bitcoin, I'm looking at the next sort of two cycles, halving cycles, you know, and I'm thinking this cycle is going to be the corporate FOMO. It's obvious now, but I was thinking that two years ago, so that's playing out.

And then the next cycle is going to be central bank sort of state level FOMO, and I can't see much further past that.

And I think it's probably to do with the fact that it is very, very hard to imagine the future much further forward than sort of eight years anyway, so for anyone.

I know the guys that wrote the sovereign individual did a pretty good job, and I certainly think that that is sort of the path we're on is that sovereign individual reality.

I can't tell you how quickly I think it's going to happen. I just think these next two cycles are going to be huge, and I'm not quite sure what happens after that. I think that the volatility after the next two cycles will be much, much less.

So, yeah, that's how I think about it. And the way I look at it in the long run is that Bitcoin is this store of value money if you like, that there is nothing better than it.

So, the cream always rises to the top. So, because there is nothing better than it, and there won't be anything better than it for the foreseeable future.

And I really think we're talking a thousand years minimum that this thing is going to be around, you know, for a long time, and it's going to reshape everything, absolutely everything, because it's going to be, you know, it's going to gobble up the value

of everything that has monetary value in the world, and certainly everything that's overvalued at the moment. And then, once we get to that stage, then that's going to make things really interesting, because we're going from this kind of low time preference messed up, debt based, horrible fear world that we live in at the moment,

to something that's low time preference, more created for the people, you know, a tool for people to use, hopefully for good. I think it'll just be really interesting to see, yeah, it'll take humanity to the next level, it really will, and it'll be really interesting to see, hopefully in our lifetimes, how it all pans out.

And in terms of the battle that we have, like I said, we're going to have this privacy war, if we're not already in it.

I just feel like, truth is that all these Bitcoiners that, through these next two cycles, are going to become the most wealthy people in the world, are all libertarians, and they're going to be shaping the world, because they're going to be the ones running the show, because money or wealth, if you like, is power.

And let's be honest, some are going to go off the rails and go the wrong way. That's what people do, they make mistakes and they make bad choices, but I think the majority, and I hope that the majority are going to be in it for the right things and want to make positive changes.

And just get us out of this absolute shit show that we're in at the moment. So once again, it makes me very hopeful, very hopeful.

Yeah, when you were saying a more creative society, and how a non-debt based society changes things, I think you really hit on something there, because I can be a bit of dick at times, and I can be like, people are fucking stupid, blah, blah.

I can get quite hard on the general population, but what actually I think a lot of the time is, people aren't necessarily stupid, people don't have any time, and people are scared, and people are in debt, and they're just on this hamster wheel.

And yeah, maybe they had some dreams, but most of those dreams get either crushed at school if they're dyslexic, or they have learning difficulties, and they don't fit into this little box that 20% of people do, and the rest don't.

And they get treated like they're stupid, they get treated like they're not capable, they get treated like, oh yeah, you're causing problems, and you're asking stupid questions, and it's like, well no, actually, they're asking questions.

Be happy they're asking questions, because not enough people do that.

And I feel that if we can get out of this, just really like boxed in world that doesn't fit most people, that they'll be an explosion of creativity, and that all the people who have these ideas for businesses, but at the moment they're working two jobs to try and pay the bills.

They'll actually have a, hopefully, especially the people who have hodled, have a little bit of time to like take a step back and go, what do I want to do with my life?

What am I doing, going to this job that I hate, for something that I don't believe in, to pay a mortgage on a property that I've been told is good to buy because it's going to go up in value.

It just seems like, if we break down those barriers, things can change so dramatically, so quickly, that sometimes when I have those thoughts, I think to myself, shut up Max, like you're a dreamer, but then other times I think, no, actually, I really believe this is going to happen and we're going to look back in, you know,

maybe it's 30, 40 years, but go fucking hell. That has just changed the world like nothing else. Yeah, agree, 100%. Yeah. And it's nice to be able to talk to people about it as well because you can't say that to someone that's never bought any Bitcoin before.

When do you say this is going to change the world in ways you cannot imagine and, you know, rearrange the wealth of the world and create all this creativity and positivity. Yeah, and then they just look at you like you're absolutely crackers, you know what I mean? So you can't do it.

So you don't get to talk about it very much. You get to listen to podcasts when people like us right now are talking about it, but generally, you don't get to talk about it very much unless you're around somebody else who's quite far down the rabbit hole, and there's not that many of us.

So it's really nice to be able to talk about it and, yeah, and just sort of brainstorm and think about how it is going to all pan out. And, you know, yeah, it's quite exciting. It is exciting.

And the people who are thinking about it, this tiny percent, like, I was having a conversation with someone the other day and they were like, oh, how many people do you think there are on Bitcoin Twitter?

And I was like, I don't know, couple of thousand, and they were like, no, I don't know. It's probably 10 times that 20 times that.

I don't know what it is, but however many people there are who are like on proper Bitcoin Twitter and not tweeting about some fucking stupid token or whatever, like real people who understand it and interested in reshaping the world.

Those people, if they do become very wealthy, which I believe they will, they have these shared values. And also, they're already thinking and having these conversations probably 20, 30 years earlier than the things they're dreaming are actually going to happen.

So they'll be very, very well prepared for it. And rather than having this knee-jerk reaction constantly of, ah, the world's running to a problem. How do we fix it? We try and fix it. We fuck that up, cause a load more problems like it's the complete reverse of that.

So maybe this community, I hope that this community of people stay close through all of the bull runs, through all of what changes through this, you know, what will be life-changing wealth, and that people don't lose sight of that hope and that dream of changing the world.

I hope that most people don't suddenly just think, oh, I'm going to buy a load of lambos. I'm rich now. Everyone else can have fun being poor. Yeah, yeah, exactly that. And like, it's funny, you know, it's funny to talk about, but then equally, I really hope that doesn't happen because I don't think that brings real happiness.

I think a lot of the problems where people feel down and people feel depressed and like all of these things that are really surging all over the world, like, especially with young males, people are really depressed.

And I think a lot of it comes down to just not having a purpose and feeling like, what's the fucking point? Like, what am I doing? And then people attach their dreams to, oh, if I can drive this car and have these holidays and sleep with these women, I'll be happy.

And then they get there, or if they get there, they realize that's really shallow, I'm still not happy because they're not achieving anything. And I am hoping that this group can actually achieve something real and actually make changes where they can be proud of.

And on their deathbed, they can say, like, fuck, I did something worthwhile. Well, you say the good thing about Bitcoin is that even if they do piss it all up against the wall with buy lambos and spend it on shit that they should end off, that will trickle down.

So they're going to waste it, but it will trickle down rather than the system that we have at the moment, which just favors the wealthy and keeps them in that position forever. I believe that it will trickle down and somebody else will get the coins, if you like, and maybe do something better with them than the last guy.

Yeah, good point, someone more worthy and maybe that answers this question of like, you know, a lot of people, especially no corners will say like, oh, well, it's too late and I haven't got in.

And now it's just going to be a concentration of wealth and they're just going to hold the coins and you make a good point. It's like, yeah, they will hold the coins. If they care about generational wealth, if they care about real change, they'll hold the coins.

If they're just some twat who wants to go and piss it out of the wall, they won't and it will go to someone else who's got stronger hands. And so that is, like you say, that is very, very different. It's almost like a gravity, something holding people down and stopping, like people floating through life.

Like you have to huddle, you have to be hardened, you have to change your time preference, you can't just invest in a load of property and other things that people can't invest in and then just float through life and do nothing else. Like you, you have to be very disciplined to stay in the game.

Yeah, at least it gives people the opportunity to get out of the shit because at the moment, if you try to save your money, you don't get anything.

Don't get any interest. You've got to try and find another way to store your wealth, your purchasing power, and it's so hard to do it and people don't, but it took me two to three years to understand what money was and the ethics of money

and how it should be and how it shouldn't be. And people are not going to do that. People are not going to do what I did. But they don't need to when Bitcoin is the standard because Bitcoin's the money and all they've got to do is huddle it.

Do you know what I mean? That's all they've got to do. They earn it. It stores their wealth, their purchasing power. It grows and basically just like what people think they have to do now is, "Oh, you want to have a better life? You've got to save up."

Well, unfortunately, that's not true with fear of money. That's probably the worst thing you can do. So it rewards, what's the word? Is it prudent? Is that the word? Yeah. Yeah. And at the moment, it doesn't. And it's quite disappointing or what's the word I'm looking for?

It's heartening? Yeah. Yeah. That no matter how hard you work or save, you just don't seem to get anywhere. Whereas with Bitcoin, it's the opposite. Yeah. And actually, I think that when people think, "Oh, well, I'll save and then I'll have a better life."

And most people think that because most people are told that and no one's taught about money or finance or anything. I like I'm a conspiracy theorist. I think on purpose because the more people you can have enslaved by debt, the better.

So those people who think that they can put their money into a savings account just get fucked and they get further and further behind. And then they get bitter and they get sad and they get angry and they blame it generally on something that's completely irrelevant.

They'll blame it on things that have nothing to do. The real reason is because their money's being stolen through inflation and all the other bullshit that's going on. And then they get all bitter and it causes all this hatred.

They blame it on capitalism or racism and they're just off the mark. You can see that underlying discontent all over the world. People are just not seeing it. They're just having the world pulled over their eyes the whole time.

And I actually think that all the time that they're protesting about something else, they're all right. Do you know what I mean? The state is all right. If that's what they're protesting, it's going to cause problems.

But they know that these protesters haven't got to the core of the problem. Wasn't it Henry Ford that said if people understood how central banking works, that'd be riots on the street by the following morning?

It's like well enough people don't understand the financial system or the banking. Yeah. What a smart man. He's hitting the nail right on the head.

Yeah. And you know all the time they can keep it out of school. Do you know what I mean? Keep it so that only really the wealthy can afford a financial advisor that really knows how to help you protect your purchasing power and put it into assets and put it into art and property

and you know the right property because you could put it in the wrong property. So, you know, you need all that just to be able to do it.

Just be able to play the game, whereas anybody can buy and hold Bitcoin. Anyone can do it. And that changes it. It changes the rules. It moves the goalposts. All of a sudden everyone can participate in this. It's not just the privileged, the cantillionaires.

And it's a savings account that works. You know, I say that to people a lot. They're like, oh yeah, well, you know, the people who got in earlier, maybe I'm like, yeah, they deserve to because they took a risk and everyone thought they're fucking crazy.

No one believed what they were saying and they had to put in the effort to understand there. And so they deserve that. But the people who come in later, they still are better off. Like you're saying, like, they're still better off. It's still a savings account that works.

It's still the best protest on the planet, no matter what time you get in, because every single sat you take off the market and you use in a separate economy to one that's controlled by the people who are trying to control you takes away their power.

If everyone started doing that and there are so many people, like you said, that are unhappy, that are pissed off with the state of the world and they think it's because of different reasons and they're protesting.

If they just all literally opened up an app on their phone, bought some sat, shut the fuck up about everything else and just keep stacking. Things will change so quickly. Yeah. It's how do you get them there? I guess, you know, you get them there with your memes and everyone who's trying to educate and people trying to...

But go up mate. I actually went out and did my first job to date for two weeks, because I don't know if you knew I've just had a knee surgery. Yes, I did. Weirdly, like it's so stupid, but I didn't mention it because I don't want to somehow dok's due because someone might look into it.

It's so stupid, like I've gone so hyper paranoid. It sounds like it went well though. Yeah, well, I think so. It's, you know, I'm not in pain, not easy to walk about at the moment, but yeah, it seems to be getting their sort of acceptable pace, if you like.

But so yeah, so I went out to a job and they said, you know, and they're talking about, because they've heard about it in the news. They know I'm, you know, involved and they are, they're asking about it.

And you know, what if we put a little bit in and, you know, will you help person? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you look at them and I look at all sort of pre-coiners in the same way.

And they're literally just scratching the surface and going, oh, look, you put your money in there, it goes up. And like, and you're so far down the rabbit hole, I'm like, I'm all going down here.

Yeah, I have to climb all the way out to come back to your level. And yeah, it feels weird, but it feels good to be able to help and educate people on it. And I fully expect in the next, what, six, six or five months?

Six or 18 months. Yeah, yeah, that more and more people are going to be asking about it. And yeah, yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be fun. What's your sort of flow with that? Obviously, when you're approaching someone who is saying something you don't agree with, you're rather than going straight at them, you're asking a question.

And you know, you're saying you do the same with Bitcoin. But if somebody comes to you with, I know you're involved in this Bitcoin thing, I've just seen this fucking rocket ship starting to take off.

Like, what's going on? Should I buy? Should I buy XRP? You know, that stupid shit that people will come up with at the beginning. What do you do? Like, do you just go, okay, go on coin floor, DCA, keep it on there until you've got this amount.

And then I'll set you up hardware wallet or do you have a different flow? Yeah, it's literally, it is that it's really important to me to make sure they circumnavigate the shit coins. Like, that's really important to me.

Because I did struggle the first, I'm going to say, puppy, sort of year that I found out and got into Bitcoin with all the noise about the shit coins. You know, this one's faster. Look at this one, it's only this much and it could be the price of Bitcoin in two years time.

That's the next Bitcoin. It has so much noise to get through. So what I want to literally write at the start, one of the first things I say is do not look at any of the others. And if they ask why, then I'll give a pretty brief abrupt reasoning for that.

And if they don't ask why, they'll go into it because there's just no point. So to me, that means that they've heard the message and they're taking my advice anyway.

So, so I do that. And then, yeah, it's, that's, that's the, that's a really important bit. And then, yeah, just getting them, getting them on an exchange, getting them started, DCAing in, you get some people are just going to go, right, I'm going to buy a whole Bitcoin, you know, and they do it.

I build a dropped 50 grand on it the other day. I've been banging on to him for so, so long. And he went, right, this Bitcoin thing, I want to buy it. I was like, right, how much is like 50 grand, what a fucking all right then.

And this was like back in March. So he's, he's a happy boy. And the same thing. It's like, yeah, you just have to, luckily, you know, hold a guy and he was just like, yeah, just tell me what I do, I'll just buy that and I didn't have to go into the whole shit coin thing.

But it's like, how do you get them on there and then be safe and, and then also, how do you find that balance of, you know, on this show, I push the privacy side, I try and get people, you know, although coin floors, my sponsor, I love them to pieces.

I push people their way. But if people are a little bit more tech savvy, I will say to them, like, Brian going, okay, why see if you can and try and keep it on a cold card and all that side of things.

But there's a really fine line between this person can probably be able to do that and not actually fuck up and lose all their money. And then there's others where you're like, no, as much as I'd like them to go.

No KYC is much. I'd like to coin join as much as all of that is great. Right now, they just have to go on an exchange store it on exchange that I trust until it becomes more valuable, although they're willing to learn because it's too hard for most people, a lot of this stuff.

How do you manage that? Well, I've got to be honest that I don't normally come across anyone that's going to be technical enough to go privacy to go know KYC to run for node, you know, that is, I'm not coming into contact with them, you know, people like that, even though I'm in that sort of line of work.

I don't deal. It's only me. So perhaps if I went to some seminar or something and I started to mingle with some more technical people, then certainly there, but that doesn't happen and certainly hasn't happened this year.

So yeah, it's not, it's not something that I'm generally talking about much anyway. I do if the questions come up, but once again it's, it's quite a few steps down the rabbit hole so, and whereas most people are still literally focused on number go up.

I really expect some of the people that I've helped get into it to want to know more and to want to get more involved, but not yet. I think we're probably maybe another three, four, five years away from that, I think.

Another cycle away where it's life changing money and then, okay, right. And then then their conviction grows. I think that's the other thing is like, there's very few people who come in and don't see their value go up and they're still interested.

People have to see the value go up to them be like, Oh, okay, no, this was right. And then they have the conviction is, you know, it's rare to have people who come in by a top lose money, lose money, lose money, lose money, and still be interested. I think that's quite rare.

For sure. Yeah. Yeah, it's, yeah, I agree. Yeah, I, it was for me completely separate of what we're talking about, like going to price. I got in the first of October 2017.

That was when I first bought my first 50 quids worth. And the price was something, I think it was around $2,000 to $3,000 at that time. So, even though I rode that bull run up, I have no idea what I bought.

Like that first 50 quid, but like I knew because I was like, I've to listen to the to an audio book and that was what that was what got me to. That was my orange pills. Sorry. And I rode that bull market up in the December and I was like, Oh my God, I'm going to be a millionaire next year on my 50 pound investment.

And then obviously it come back down over the course of 2018 and it came back down to roughly the same price it was the day I bought it and never went any lower.

So, yeah, it's just quite, I don't know, lucky if you like, because even though I was buying all through the bear market, it never actually went down lower than what it was the day that I got interested in it.

So, yeah, who knows, I might have, I might have lost a bit of conviction if it did, if it had have gone a lot lower than that, but I don't know, I don't know. I literally don't think I could have time things worse. It was just so happened that that's when I heard about it was told about it and was like, okay, so it kind of sounds cool.

And then I just had two and a half years of just pain and suffering, just like, just like every time I looked at my balance, I'd be like, Oh, God, that hurts. Oh, God, that hurts.

In some ways, I'm kind of thankful for that, because it got me to a point where like, all I've seen is pain. That's it. And now, like, if we dropped 50%, I'd be like, I literally don't give a shit.

I don't care. Whereas if it was the other way around, like, I think if I'd have probably knowing me, like, if I'd have come in in the bull run, I'd have thought I was really clever. I'd have got all arrogant. I wouldn't have done the research and all that sort of stuff. And then it would have crashed and I'd have really shit myself.

And maybe I would have lost conviction, or I didn't even have conviction at that time. You know, I didn't know what I was talking about. So in some ways, I'm thankful for that. I've just like, I think sometimes coming into a bear market is not a bad thing, because it forces you to be like, hold on, I put this money in.

I better check what I've invested in and understand this thing, because I've got skin in the game. So like, I have to check it. It definitely changes your perspective on things, I think. For me, it was like, literally, October to the December 2017. It was like, this is amazing. What is this? I'm a genius.

I'm going to get a loud red exit here. So yeah, I was thinking that for, you know, three rounds. And then the top blue off comes down. Okay, right. I thought I really need to find out.

I needed to find out, educate myself enough to have the conviction, because I had a lot of conviction. I needed a bit more reassuring. I needed a bit of reassuring that a shitcoin wasn't going to be the next Bitcoin.

And quite honestly, Pomp, Pomp's podcast got me through 2018. Yeah, because a lot of his stuff recently hasn't been so much Bitcoin. A lot of his, so he does like his daily stream thing on YouTube, which he talks about Bitcoin more on there.

And his newsletter and stuff and obviously his Twitter is just all about it pretty much. But 2018, I would say at least 80 to 90% of his podcasts were about either Bitcoin or crypto generally.

And I found it really useful. And yeah, I credit Pomp for getting me through 2018. I really do. Then I read, I think I got through about four, I don't know, five audio books might have been more through that year as well.

I really sort of started educating myself. And the more I learned, the more conviction I had, it's just, couldn't see anything past it at all. Once you come in, you don't come out. Yeah, it really is. And it's interesting, like you were saying, who influences your thoughts and, you know, what shapes your opinions on things.

And I think, you know, the same thing for me, what got me out of the shitcoinery, well, never thought I was that really interested in it, but what really got me out of that was Marty and Matt and TFTC.

I remember, because I was at the time, similar thing, I was like listening to Pomp, I was listening to what Bitcoin did. They were the two main ones. And then I found Stefan Lavera. And I was like, okay, this is cool, but I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Like, it's just too technical. And then I found TFTC. And by listening to TFTC and Stefan Lavera, just every single episode from the start, I started to piece the bits together and the technical bits together. And then I was, it's weird how it hits you. You're suddenly like, oh, okay, wow, yeah, no, everything else is bullshit.

And like, I understand how this sort of fits together. And yeah, it's incredible. You know, people like that, that really help people through. And without them, I don't know if you're the same.

Like, with my dyslexia, like the reading part of it's hard, so I do more audio books, because I will just, I don't know if you do the same, like, jumbled the letters back to front and then skip lines.

And so I'll start on line three and I'll suddenly be down on line 20 and the words go back to front and all that stuff. And it's just, it's really tiring to read. But being able to just put on an audio book or being able to put on a podcast and just soak in that information is invaluable,

because it gets you to that place of just like, okay, now I understand this stuff and I'm comfortable with it. And it's great, because otherwise you feel lonely. You feel like, and my mental, you know, you don't, you don't have the ability to speak to people until you find Bitcoin Twitter.

And then, and then once you're in there and you can chat, it makes things so much easier. Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. And it is, it's all podcasts and audio books for me, because although mine isn't, my dyslexia isn't jumbling words up, I, as I read, my brain just puts different words in there.

Yeah. Yeah. I read it. And like, I've read it in one way, in my own way. And then if I read it again, it's like, oh shit, I've just totally read it completely wrong. So I'm completely capable of reading it. And yeah, I just, I do it, I do it all the time, even with like people text me and I'll text them back and go, oh, yeah, no.

And then like, what's been, yeah, no, it's also like that. That makes no sense to the question that I just started and then I read it again again. All right. Yeah. Totally not the question that I thought that I just read. So that's how that's how it is for me. Anyway, it's really weird.

Do you do voice notes or? No, no, I do. If I do notes, they're written, but it's your hand, really. And then, but then if I'm writing something, like a tweet. I'll write it. I'll miss out three words. I'll proofread it and put the three words in in my head. And I go, yeah, that looks all right.

And then I'll tweet it and I'll like, I look at it again and go, fuck off, miss three words out. So weird. It's frustrating. Yeah. It's frustrating. And the spelling as well. It's hard. Like, I'll do that. I'll go through every word.

I'll put every word into Google and spell check before I send things because the most simple words I can't spell. And then I'll get pulled up like I did one the other day and like I spelled lightning as lighting and I did it twice and I got pulled up on that and I was just like, oh, fucking hell.

There's always something like that. So, and with the boys at 21 ism, they'll be having a discussion. It's all over message and we're trying to sort some stuff out. And I'm just like, I said to me all the day, I was like, I just have to do things by voice note because everything I say just is either misconstrued or I can't get it across.

And yeah, it's that that written side of things is hard, but that's the brilliant thing of, you know, people making videos, people making audio, people putting all this, this love and attention into pushing the space forward.

And I'm so thankful for that without it. I'd be fucked. I wouldn't have been accessible to me. Yeah. And maybe it's got something to do with people like ourselves getting into it more now, because truth is, there wasn't the podcast around, you know, six, seven years ago.

Not maybe, maybe there was a few, but not to the extent there are now. And the audio books, yeah, the books, a few books might have been written, but not all of them. So, yeah, I wouldn't have got into it without the audio. The first audio book I read or listened to was Dominic Frisbee's Bitcoin, the future of money.

I've just downloaded it because of our last conversation. I know you said it was good and I've just got it on my audible. So I look forward to that. So that's what really just triggered it for you, was it?

That was my orange peel. I think I've probably said this in all of the podcasts I've done so far, so it's a bit boring if anyone's listened to them all. And actually, I had it on. I put it on in my car. And I listened to the first chapter.

It must have been 10, 15 minutes, I reckon. And I just went, wow, this is it. And I walked in the house, downloaded it app for an exchange and bought 50 quits worth like that day. And I'd known about it because I've been watching Max Kaiser for 300 years.

So I knew about it. I just never did anything about it until I read that book. That first chapter of the audio broke and it just blew my mind and I went, this is the thing I've been looking for for at least a year because I've been listening to books about capitalism and like the state, things about the state, the banking crisis.

Yeah, all these, I had all these questions about the banking crisis and money and debt. And because no, nobody understands debt that, oh, well, who, who were in debt to them?

I mean, that's, that's the question that most people ask. And that was the question I was asking, and I instead of just saying, who were in debt to and then just never following up the question.

I thought, I'm going to find out what is actually going on. And that, and I was, that's what I was, I was on that journey, then I found Dominic Frisbee's book that Penny dropped.

This is the answer. This is better money. You know, I hadn't obviously, like I said, I haven't fully got to grips with the money, the creation and money, the ethics of money, that sort of thing for like another year after that or two.

But that put me on the right path. All of a sudden, the pieces, it was starting to come together, you know, it was brilliant. And the thing about this book is, because it's really, it's not very well known because I don't think it was released in the US, but I'm always going to plug it because it was my, my orange pill story.

But the book's great because Dominic Frisbee reads the audiobook himself, and he's very easy to listen to, very easy on the ear. And it's not just informative. There's a bit of a story in there as well. And he talks about, you know, the history of it and the mystery that surrounds Satoshi and all things like that.

And he's dedicated a whole chapter to his quest to trying to work out who Satoshi was, which is fantastic. Yeah, very, very, very good, really fascinating. Yeah, so big plug for Dominic there.

Well, I look forward to digging into that one and, you know, I haven't listened to it yet, but I have to thank Dominic Frisbee because this Bitcoin world, this Bitcoin Twitter would not be the same without you, R.D.

It really lives and things up. And I always love chatting to you. It's nice to have somebody who, yeah, just, you get it. And we really need to go and have this beer. I know I, I bitched out on the last one and I regret that. So we need to go and have a drink either before or after lockdown, whichever.

And thank you so much for what you do in the space and thank you for all you're doing with 21ism. It's fucking incredible. And for anyone who hasn't seen your work, which I find unlikely if anyone's on Twitter, where do they go to see it and check it out.

I'm just R.D. underscore BTC. And yeah, my avatar is Star Wars Sith Lord by the works of it, which I quite liked the picture I made of that. So just for, yeah, it seems quite recognizable. Doesn't look like anybody else's avatar.

And yeah, that's got to find me down to it. I am on Instagram as well, but I've got to be honest. So I post a meme on Twitter. That's where I want to engage. And then I post it on Instagram purely because Instagram is a nice way to sort of catalog my memes.

So, for instance, if I remember I posted a meme about that, you know, three, four months ago, and then I can scroll through it quite quickly on Instagram, find the date that I posted it. And that makes it easier if I want to go back and find it on Twitter because scrolling through them all on Twitter is a nightmare to find your old stuff.

So that's merely why I use Instagram as a catalog, really, but you can still follow me there if people want to. But Twitter is where I hang out and tell the gram.

Okay, perfect. Well, I'll link them in the show notes anyway. And like I say, it is always a pleasure speaking to you and talk to someone who is looking into the future and who cares deeply about this stuff.

And yeah, love the memes, love what you're doing and keep it up. And I hope that we have this conversation again soon when we're at 100K or that sort of figure so maybe next week.

And yeah, it was too long in the making. And, you know, I know you were, you know, maybe you said to me originally, Oh, I don't know what I would say, but yeah, it's been a great show. And you've got some really interesting thoughts you've left me with some things to think about.

Thanks, mate. Yeah, really humbled as usual that you would want to have me on and that anyone would have me on really. Yeah, really humbled that anyone would find me remotely interested. So yeah, thanks for having me, mate. And let's do it again sometime and definitely have that beer soon, mate.

A hundred percent. All right. Thanks so much for coming on, mate. And we'll speak soon. Brilliant. Cheers, mate. Keep up with your work. Cheers. Bye.