EP78 Bitcoin podcast with @nikcantmine

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.

Let's go!

Now, what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison. Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.

[ Laughs ]

All right, you ungovernable misfits. I'm your host, Max. Everybody knows that Bitcoin is useless, worthless, and doomed to fail. But what if everyone's wrong? What if it's the system that is doomed to fail?

Join me as I speak to some of the brightest people in the space, and slither to the deepest, darkest depths of the Bitcoin rabbit hole.

This episode was recorded with Nick Hoffman for 21ism. He was our featured artist, our featured writer, and he wrote, "It's the money, stupid." It's something we want to scream at people all day, every day, as Bitcoiners and Nick put it beautifully.

I really enjoyed interviewing him. We hadn't spoken before, and I walked away thinking, "Fuck the future's bright." He is a young Bitcoiner with a very, very good head on his shoulders. I think you're going to really enjoy this.

If you haven't read the article, then I'm going to link it in the show notes. Go and check everything that we've done for him on 21ism. Before we dive in, just a shout out to my sponsors, Coin Floor UK.

If you are in the UK, and you're looking to onboard into Bitcoin, and you're not going to listen to me when I say go and use BISK and HODL HODL, and don't use a KYC service, if you are going to go and use one, make sure it's a good one.

Coin Floor UK, have a fucking excellent team. I really, really like them. They're doing things properly. If you're going to use one, go and use my referral link in the show notes, go and dollar cost average into it, and you get a slight discount.

It also helps me support the show. Anyway, let's dive in. Let's hear what Nick has to say. Enjoy. - Hey, Nick, can you hear me? - Yeah, can you hear me? - Yeah, you're coming through fine now.

It was just waiting for your access on your mic. - Okay, sweet, sounds good. - Nice to finally speak to you, mate. I've been reading through your article this morning, and I will dig into that a little bit more later on, but yeah, I'm really excited to have a conversation about all this stuff and see things from a bit

of a different perspective. It was very interesting the way that you've laid things out there, so welcome on the show. Nice to get to speak to you, finally. - Yeah, thanks for having me on.

I was scrolling through your Embatter's website, and dude, it's a really dope website. It's so cool, I was looking through Canoot's page. I was looking through Citadel 21's stuff, and also Eric Carson's, and you guys really pull it together well, good job on that.

- Thank you, mate. We can't take all the credit there. There's more than just us too, and Mr. Crown is the genius who makes the website, so I can't take credit for it, but I very much appreciate that.

- Mm-hmm, yeah, he really pulls it together well. I was quite impressed, and I'm really looking forward to see what mine looks like. (laughing) - Yeah, well, it's gonna be an exciting one, because I think the things that you're touching on in the article, and people will have the chance to read through when this goes live,

are really, really important, and before we sort of dive in, though, I wanted to just hear a little bit of a background on your entry to the space, because it's something that I've sort of seen from afar.

We've never connected before, but I've seen, I remember when you entered the space, an American hodl putting you up for the internship with Marty, and I was seeing all this stuff in the sidelines, and to be honest, I didn't know how young you were, and I don't want to dox you, but I'm pretty fucking impressed that you've wrapped

your head around this as quickly as you have, and to see where you've gone in the space so quickly is incredible, so it could be cool to sort of hear the story of how it all came about, and how you found your way onto Bitcoin Twitter.

- Yeah, so I found Bitcoin my senior year of high school in 2018, I mean, 2017, and it was quite early on. It was, well, late in that bull run, but it was around when Bitcoin was $6,000, so I think that was like October.

It was somewhere in the early fall, and I came home from school that day, and I was just chilling on my computer, just burning some like an hour or two before I had to go to soccer practice.

I grew up playing on a very competitive travel team, and that was like my number one passion before Bitcoin, and my brother and his friends come downstairs in the basement, and they start talking about Satoshi Nakamoto and Bitcoin and how it's gonna change the world, and I'm looking at him like, you guys are idiots.

Oh my God, you really bought into that, and I'm like, I'm just clowning, and I'm like, you guys gotta be kidding me, like, how are you that dumb? And after like 15 minutes of explaining it to me, I was kinda like, well, how would you even buy it?

And they were like, oh, just download an app called Coinbase on your phone, and you can buy it like really quickly. And I was kinda thinking, this is 100% a scam, like there's no way this thing is legit, but if people are getting rich off it, I might as well, you know?

So I was like, I'll pump the Ponzi, I'll put some money into it. So I downloaded Coinbase, and I bought $50 worth, I had some money because all throughout high school, and like the summer and winter, I would work a job, whether it was like an actual like higher job, or it was like, you know, breaking leaves, shoveling snow, house sitting,

stuff like that. So I always had some money on me, and I probably had like a net worth of like 500 bucks, my senior year of high school, and over time, that all went into Bitcoin, but I bought 50 bucks, and then I was like, okay, I have exactly $50, and then when it showed up on my Coinbase account, it said like $47,

and I was like, oh my God, it just dumped, are you kidding me, this is a scam. But it was just the Coinbase fee, 'cause I was so young and naive, I didn't even know that there were fees to it, so.

Ever since that day though, like, I just thought it was so cool, and I kept my eye on it, and like I've been in Bitcoin pretty much every day since that day, just falling down the rabbit hole.

I went through a shit coin phase for a little bit, but I got knocked out of that pretty quickly, I'd say. And yeah, dude, one of the things that brought me to Bitcoin Twitter was that very day that I bought it, and before I say this, I wanna mention that it blew my mind that there was this entire like economy

and monetary system growing up right under my nose, and I couldn't even see it on the internet. Like that day I found out about Bitcoin was the first day I had ever heard the word Bitcoin.

It was the first day I had ever heard the word like crypto or blockchain or anything related to it. I had no idea this stuff was out there or existed. And that just blew my mind how something this big could be on the internet, and I missed it completely.

I have no idea how, but one of the things that brought me to Bitcoin Twitter was I had a burner account on Twitter, where I just like again, like going back to the soccer thing, I love watching European football and European soccer, and I love like following English people 'cause I'm a huge man United fan,

I like watching the Premier League, and I follow like a bunch of like English people and I like hearing their commentary or reading their commentary throughout games and just like keeping up to date with like transfer news and stuff, but I also followed some video game people just 'cause I like watching like call of duty zombies

and stuff on YouTube. And there's one guy I followed, he's in 100 feeds, a gaming organization in California, and his name's Noah J456. That very day I found out about Bitcoin, I turn on my phone, I go on Twitter, and one of the first tweets I see is Noah J like tweeting out a chart of Bitcoin.

I had no idea he was in the Bitcoin. I was like, well, this dude's pretty smart. So if he's in the Bitcoin, like there might be something to it. So I just, I would Google Bitcoin and I saw these cartoon character, I mean, Google, I would search it up on Twitter and I saw these cartoon characters making so much money.

And I was like, that's fucking badass. Like that's pretty sweet. Like I would love to do something like that. And it really changed the course of my life throughout that year because since I heard it so early in my senior year of high school, I was like, man, like thinking about life after high school

'cause like I was planning on going to play soccer out of school. And then I was like, I don't really wanna do that anymore. And then I was like, I'm just gonna go to a four year school and just party and have fun.

But then the more I learn about the opportunity cost to Bitcoin, I'm like, man, like, I don't think I wanna go to a four year school anymore. Like if this thing is actually legit 'cause I was thinking if this thing is really legit in the next few years, we go on to just new astronomical eyes.

I don't wanna miss out again. I've already missed out the past, you know, however many years since 2009, it's like, I can't miss the boat again. I have to take advantage of this 'cause, you know, there's an unlimited amount of fiat.

There's a limited amount of Bitcoin. So it's like, man, I just thought I can't, like this is a perfect chance to create wealth by working hard, like sacrificing a few years when you're young for a lot of years of wealth when you're older.

So I was like, it was a really tough decision. But at the end of the year, I decided not to go to a four year school. And I decided to go to community college and just get a job instead. And I worked those next few years on Bitcoin Twitter.

I was learning every day. I was a full time student at a community college. And I worked a lot at a physical therapy clinic. I was picking up extra hours. I was working weekends. I was doing all I could to stack as many stats.

And then over time, dude, like at one point, I thought I had made the wrong decision. And I worked really hard to get accepted into this, you know, my quote unquote dream school. And I think it's so cringe calling it a dream school just 'cause I don't know, I don't like saying that.

But I worked really hard, got all A's and B's in school. I drove down to that school for an onsite interview after I applied. And they were like, if you get all A's and B's this semester, we'll accept you in to the school for the next year.

And then I did end up finishing that semester with all A's and B's. And they sent me my email saying, oh, you know, congrats on your grades. Like, let's move forward with the process of getting you into the school.

And I just started thinking like, okay, this is a huge turning point in my life. I can either A, go to school and stop working and just live like a normal teen. Or I can continue working, continue just going to the community college, continue stacking Bitcoin and really like dive into Bitcoin way, way more and focus more on it.

And it was a lot, it was a hard decision, but after a while. - What year is, sorry Nick, what year is this? Like just so I can picture where we were in the chart and where we were in the cycles.

Like when you're making this decision, when was this? - This was the spring of like, this was as I was closing my first, my freshman year of community college. So I was about to head into the summer and then the fall would be the sophomore year.

Sorry if I jumped the gun on that. But yeah, I was kind of sitting there like, I could either go to a four year school now and start my sophomore year or I could continue doing what I'm doing and just up my Bitcoin stuff more.

And I decided that I just wanna up my Bitcoin stuff more. And I came through that conclusion by talking with some of the older people at work who kind of encouraged me like to follow like what I wanna do in life and not like what everyone else does.

And so going into that sophomore year of college, that's when things really started to kick off for me in terms of Bitcoin Twitter. And I started to get more followers and like more people started recognizing me.

And it all started when St. Bitcoin invited me on his podcast. And we just went on chatting some shit and he put it out and it did pretty well. And then that kind of just started like a domino effect.

And then like over the next few months, I started like writing more and like publishing on medium. Some of my medium articles when I first started were complete trash, but I really liked it.

And I like just putting stuff out there and having people critique me so I could get better. And I think over time I have gotten better. And then I went on John Vallis's podcast and that got me to like an even broader audience.

And like people just kept following me and interacting with me and stuff. And then eventually, so beginning of 2020, like January 2020, I was visiting my parents and my parents lived like well at the time, my parents lived like four hours away from me and it was a Friday and I was going down there

to visit them for the weekend with my brother. And I had my phone on mute the whole time 'cause I was driving and I'm listening to Bitcoin podcast, which I did a lot by the way. I drove a lot back and forth between my parents' house and where I was living.

And it's a four-hour car ride. And after a while, that's the dream. That's the best way to consume podcast. There's nothing better than driving. It's just 'cause you're in this state of like, I don't know, you don't have to concentrate too much but you're still active and so you're more engaged

and it's just like rather than listening to all the trash that you'd otherwise listen to, you're just consuming all this information. It is fucking amazing doing that. The more driving the better.

- And so like when I graduated high school, my parents sold the house we grew up in because they wanted to move to a different house in a different area. And I was at a point after like, the summer going into my sophomore year and like the fall of that year, I was in like a pretty bad living situation.

I don't wanna get too into it but I hated where I was at. And I would only stay there like the bare minimum. Like I would stay there Monday through Thursday and then Thursday night I would get off work at like 8 p.m.

and I already have my bags packed and I would just go to my parents house for the weekend and I was like that for a few months just 'cause I hated where I was living. And it was just this night drive every Thursday night and an evening drive back every Sunday night, four hours both way

and I would just consume Bitcoin podcast the entire way and I loved it. I worked, I mean, I learned so much in that time and just back to the thing I was just talking about is, I had my phone on mute and I'm driving to my parents house and they were like, hey, your brother's already down here and we're hungry.

There's this restaurant on the way, meet us there. So I pull into the parking lot and I turn on my phone and my phone has like a billion notifications from Twitter and I'm like, oh boy, I got pulled into something.

(laughing) Marty had tweeted out saying that he was looking for an intern like a young guy to do some work for him and I was thinking, well, I think he tweeted that with me in mind because a few days before, like earlier that week I was at work and he messaged me and was like, I think it's time we get a Zoomer

on a Tales from the Crypt and I was like fucking sand-bullying at work like breaking out and then a few days later he tweets that in a American hodl and John Vallis and they're commenting and tagging me like, oh, Nick's the man for the job, like higher Nick.

So I contact Marty and he's like email me here, I email him and then that weekend we get on a Zoom call and we talk about it and everything sounded good and yeah, he's like, yeah, I'll give you the gig but one of the funny things was Brady from Swan Bitcoin was also like, he was commenting in that thread

and he was like, damn, I was just about to offer Nick an internship and then he DM'd me and was like, hey, I know you're talking with Marty right now but could I persuade you to join us? And I would have done it if I wasn't already working a full-time job in school full-time, like I just didn't have the time to do all of it

but like, man, I wish I would have, like that would have been cool but yeah, that allowed me like just to talk to Marty and get, you know, to pick his brain on some things and to learn from him a bit and like that definitely like added to like my resume so later on that year, when COVID happened,

I got laid off from my job and we went to online learning and where I was living at, like my friends were all home from college and it was fun hanging out with them and stuff and like we'd go up to our high school and play like soccer and stuff and like things just started getting kind of bad

with like the police forcing lockdowns and stuff and Virginia went into like a complete mandatory lockdown and I was like, well, I live like an hour away from DC and things are gonna get really hairy here so I'm gonna leave so I left and I went to my parents house and where my parents live, there's not many police,

people are super civilized and chill and I went there and life kind of just carried on as normal I didn't have any like, there wasn't any like forced lockdowns or anything so when I was there, I ended up meeting CK Snarks through a Zoom call and I got a job at Bitcoin Magazine and then that Marty internship really helped with that as well

and persuading the CEO to bring me on board so that's pretty much how I got here. - It's such a fascinating story because it's really rare to see someone take the path that you've taken and I think a lot of the reason for that is it's sort of seen to be the stupid move, to turn down school, to come and join this internet cult

and you know, it's like a crazy thing to do and it's people look down their nose at people who don't go off to college and you know, this whole system is there to challenge what you've done but you were fucking right, mate.

I'm very pleased for you that you made that decision, you had the bollocks to do it because look where you are now and you made the right decision that you decided to go against the grain and where would you be if you'd have not bothered to do it, if you'd have gone into education and I think this is where we can start to dig into

this article that you've written and it's fantastic, like I really like the style, it's very like grounded, it feels like I'm having a conversation with you when I'm reading it and the way that you've gone into talking about education, savings and family, to me that kind of shows me what's been going through your head

and with the education side of it, what was that like making that decision? Because I imagine it's not just you, you've got a lot of people influencing you, you've got a lot of people maybe trying to give you advice, you know, when you said to people, I've got into this school, my dream school,

you know, I can go there, they've accepted me, but I'm not going to, I'm gonna continue working, I'm not gonna take the four years to fuck around and shackle out of birds and do whatever else people do at college, I'm actually gonna work my bollocks off and stack sats, how has that received?

- So like my parents, neither one of them went to college, my mom was a nurse and at the time she didn't need to go to a college, you went to like a one or two year trade school thing, and then my father was a fireman, so he didn't go to any college either.

And I remember my senior year, like it kind of took some weight off my shoulders when my parents were like, if you don't know what you wanna do, you don't have to go to college, but if you don't go to college, you have to work a full time job, you know, you can do what you want, but you have to be doing something,

like we're not just gonna allow you to stay home and play video games all day. And so as long as you're progressing in life and doing something, you can do whatever you want, like my parents encouraged me to go to college, especially 'cause like my mom grew up poor, so she didn't really have the money to go to college,

and I feel like, I feel kinda bad sometimes not going just 'cause like she worked really hard to be able to afford to put me through college, and like that's kind of like a flex in her eyes, so it's like, I didn't do it, my brother, my brother, he went to college, he's in it right now,

and he's doing well, so I'm sure she's happy about that, but, and I know she's happy with what I'm doing right now, but like when I was making my case to my parents, it was more of like, I wasn't trying to bring in Bitcoin too much because my parents would've been like, you are ridiculous if you were turning down

this university to buy magic internet money. - Yeah. - So one of the things that really persuaded me was my freshman year of college, some nights at work, it would be really boring, like there wouldn't be many patients there, and I would take out my phone, and I would DM people who were older than being

more successful than me, like American hodl, Jeremiah on Twitter, and a bunch of other people, and I would be like, hey, this is who I am, I'm this years old, like this is what I'm doing in life right now, you seem pretty successful, you seem pretty damn happy, like can you share with me how to get to where you are, and we would sit down

and we would just talk, and it would just give me like some good life advice on what I should do, and all these successful people are telling me, don't go to school, like just focus on Bitcoin 100%, like accumulate as much as you possibly can, and just focus on like building a career around this,

and you'll outperform all your peers that went to college. And then I started looking at like, who are the people telling me I need to go to college? A lot of the people were like, let's say, I know my parents wanted me to go to college 'cause they knew I would have fun going there, but like the people who looked down on you

for not going to college, or like, I've noticed from like my friends' parents and stuff growing up, like they're not as successful, in my opinion, as people who like made their own way, if that makes sense, like I've noticed a lot of my friends' parents like really be into their kids' heads, like you have to go to college,

you have to go to college, just the only way you ever be successful, and it's like, well, they're not doing that well in life, but yet my parents and some of my other friends' parents who didn't or who don't like beat that into their kids' head, even if they did go to college, like they seem a lot happier,

they seem a lot more successful and wealthy, so it kind of was just like, if you're gonna say something, like you kinda need to back it up with something to show me that like proves your thesis is correct in this, and it's like I just wasn't seeing that at all.

And I was really nervous about like making the wrong decision because I wanna do well in life, you know, like everyone does. And I don't know if it was just me having anxiety or what, but I really didn't wanna make the wrong decision.

And the more I researched Bitcoin and just studied, you know, economics and history and stuff, the clear answer to me was just Bitcoin. And it was a hard decision 'cause I felt like I had wasted a long time like studying super hard and, you know, taking all these SAT and ACT tests to go to college

and, you know, traveling to the schools and visiting them and stuff like that. So it was a hard decision, but another thing that made it easier is I have a group of Bitcoin friends on Twitter who are all around my age and some of them dropped out of school as well.

Like, and they're doing very, very well. You know, like, I know a couple kids who are teenagers in Bitcoin and they're wealthier than some of the families, like some of the whole entire families that I grew up with.

And it's, I was like, hmm, I can either take advice from the people who are gonna look down on me for not having a piece of paper with ink on it and my name on it from a university. Or I can talk to these teenager cartoon characters on Twitter and it's super rich.

So I was like, I think I'm gonna place my eggs in this basket. - Yeah, well, that was wise. And you make a good point. Like, it is clear what you said where, you know, you have these people who a lot of them are educated and they're an intellectual, but they're not earning any fucking money.

They're not necessarily doing the things they want to do in life. Sometimes there's a bit of bitterness. And I've found that a lot of those people, if they see someone who's not as educated as them, but they've done well 'cause they've worked hard and they've been street smart, they'll generally put it down to luck.

That they can't accept that someone hasn't gone to the college or university and that they haven't taken this traditional path and that they don't have that piece of paper framed in their office, but they're doing better than them.

And I think that's a really good way to go through life is just look at what people are doing who are successful. You know, it sounds like you've had some great mentors, you know, hodling people like that who have taken the time to chat to you and you look at people like that and you go, right, there's a clear pattern.

These people work fucking hard. They think on their feet, they're not appealing to authority and you copy what those people are doing. And, you know, generally that's the best way to go. Did you have people when you're saying I'm not gonna go to college?

I'm gonna do this Bitcoin thing. Like, how many people were listening to you and thinking that what you were saying had some legs or some merit and then what percentage of people treated you like you were stupid?

Like, how was that experience? Because for me, regardless of my successes previous to Bitcoin, everyone has treated me like an asshole for the last three, three and a half years, like I'm a complete fool and laughed at me.

It's quite a frustrating thing to deal with because when you step outside of Bitcoin Twitter, you're like the outcast weirdo and maybe things change now. But what was that experience like for you?

- Yeah, so I definitely got shit on a lot for being in Bitcoin and I often try not to bring it up to people just 'cause like my friends from high school, I love 'em, but they're full degenerates, like I can't talk about money or philosophy or stuff with them.

Like, I remember one time I tried to, I was playing soccer with a few of 'em and I knew one of 'em had bought some Bitcoin out like and this was after the BSV4 happened in '28, 2019, I think.

Whenever we dropped from 6,000 to 3,000 and I'm like bro, so like you see the Bitcoin price lately and he's like, dude, fuck Bitcoin, my $50 is now 25 and I'm just laughing like, so, it's $25, dude, come on.

And I just turned the conversation away. But dude, yeah, I've definitely got looked down a lot. I've definitely got clowned a lot for being in the Bitcoin of people saying stuff like, oh well, I know some economists who says it doesn't work, it's like, well, yeah, they're fiat economists,

like they're Keynesian economists, like what do you expect? And yeah, I've taken my fair share of shit and when it came time for me to drop out of school, 'cause I never finished community college, I was, I dropped out this summer and when I made that decision, I knew what I wanted, like I knew I just wanted to do Bitcoin stuff,

but I told my parents, I was like, yeah, I don't want to go to school in the fall just because of the whole COVID thing. Like, I don't like online classes and I used that as my excuse that I wasn't learning and I wasn't getting a good experience in online classes and my parents were like, you know, that's fair.

You know, you don't have to go this fall, you can continue doing the Bitcoin thing and like, it was kind of like a Trojan horse and to me never going back. - But I didn't tell some of my friends for a while because, you know, I just know I would have received like a lot of shit for it.

But like, over these past few weeks, like I've been talking to some of my hometown friends and some of my hometown friends, they're either doing well in school or they don't really like it.

And like, I've talked to a few of them who are like interested in dropping out for their own personal reasons. Like one being like, I've talked to a few of them and they're like, dude, it's so expensive.

Like, I don't know if I can keep this up and stuff. And I told them, I was like, oh yeah, by the way, like if it makes you feel any better, you know, I dropped out and I just do Bitcoin stuff full time and like, oh, that's pretty cool.

So recently, I'm assuming just because of the price action, you know, and going up, they've taken like a liking to it and I haven't received like any real shit from it. But definitely during the bear market, 100%.

I've had to debate people on a bunch of nonsense and you know, you all know how it goes. - It's so frustrating. It's so, so frustrating to deal with that sort of stuff. And I think that's why it's so nice to be on Bitcoin Twitter 'cause you know, you sort of around a group of people who look at things in the same sort of way

and they've already got their shit together. It's very difficult when you're speaking to people outside of it and you're trying to explain because it's so complicated. Like, you know, you were saying you're spending all this time listening to the podcast and studying and economics and computer science and all this stuff

that you have to understand. And like, first of all, they already want you to be wrong. Like they immediately want themselves to be right. You to be wrong. They know someone who's smarter, like you said, who's an economist and they're just, they're not ready to learn or take the time.

So it just, it tends to just be a complete waste of time trying to explain it to people. And like you say, until that number goes up and they start to see the price running, they're just not gonna be interested because it's too much hard work and they've got other stuff they would prefer to be doing.

And I don't know, maybe that's what gets everyone else in eventually is the price. And maybe people do just buy when they deserve to buy, you know, you deserve to buy 'cause you took the time.

They didn't, so they can buy 100, 100,000 or a million. And you know, it's one thing that's also funny to me is I'm seeing these Twitter accounts with cartoon characters and like 30 to 100 followers, absolutely dunking on these people who have net worth of hundreds of millions to billions of dollars.

And they're debating them and like an economist will post like some stupid tweet and the cyber hornets just going in wreck 'em. Like these unknown people are just dunking on these, you know, people that, before Bitcoin, I would've thought we're geniuses and they're just exposing them.

Like it's like, man, like these crazy bastards are on to something. - Yeah, it is funny. I love seeing that. And it's so quick now, isn't it? Like you say, the cyber hornets just one stupid tweet and everyone's just absolutely obliterating them.

It's so funny to see. - But it's true, like, I think it's undeniable that that whole fear, culture and the, you know, all this stuff that the economists being taught and teaching is just flat out wrong.

Like it's just, it's so fucking stupid once you realize what's been going on and you take a step back and then you learn really what Bitcoin can do, you just look at the old system and the way that people are thinking.

And it's just, it's like painful to watch. It's so outdated and so bad for people. And, you know, that was something that was interesting from reading through your article again. You know, you touch on family and you touch on all these different points that the fiat system just causes issues that people don't understand.

They don't see what's happening. But, you know, there's so many people who are unhappy with their lives and so many people are complaining about their lives. And really, you can point to the money as the reason for a lot of the problems in the world.

But people don't want to hear it. So do you find that that's a generational thing? Like you're saying you've already got quite a few people in your age group and even like younger who are now into Bitcoin and they're interested in this stuff.

Do you think that people are picking it up quicker if they're your sort of age group than say the boomers or do you think that there's less of a barrier to entry for the younger generation or do you think it's just that a small percentage of people, no matter what their age will get it?

- Yes and no. I feel like my generation has some advantages because we're very, very tech savvy and it's super easy to, you know, like, we don't have a problem running a full node, you know, using a cold card, you know, buying our Bitcoin online and sending it through coin joints.

Like that's just, you know, that's just natural to us. Whereas a boomer who probably isn't as tech savvy would have a lot more trouble doing that. But then again, the boomer might be, well, probably is a lot more educated than the Zoomer so they would see a better opportunity, you know, in Bitcoin when it arises versus a Zoomer

who already doesn't have money to invest typically. And like, I just feel like the Zoomers, they, a lot of them got it all wrong. Like they, the Zoomers and a lot of the younger millennials, they get angry and they go riot and they protest and they're just protesting the wrong stuff.

Like they know something's wrong 'cause something is wrong but they can't pinpoint the exact thing that is wrong. And they've convinced themselves that it's capitalism, that's wrong, capitalism is evil.

Like I can't even explain how many times I've talked to people my age you think capitalism is all about greedy people at the top, taking advantage of the normal working class people. And it's like, no, it's just about finding the most efficient system.

And like capitalism in my opinion is like, we need that. We need that to move forward and we don't really have that right now because, you know, we have, I'd say it's crony capitalism, you know, we have Fiat Standard where they are in control of everything and I mean, a really good example of this

was the other week when the RR/Wall Street Bets found out that Melvin Capital was shorting, Melvin Capital and really a bunch of other hedge funds were shorting GameStop and they just outtraded them and short squeezed it and absolutely wrecked them.

And then, you know, big brother government had to step in and, you know, cut the people off from buying more so that the hedge fund wouldn't get wrecked. And that's total bullshit. - Those poor hedge funds, bless them.

Those poor little hedge funds, rape everyone else every fucking day and one time it goes against them because people are smarter than them and play the game better than them. And then, like you say, the government comes in and goes, oh, here you are, here's some money and we're gonna fuck everyone else up.

It's pathetic. It annoys me so much that this shit happens. That's the thing with Bitcoin that's just like, it is the most exciting thing in the world that these people who have just had it so easy and just fucking raped everyone else, they are going to lose.

They are going to lose this game and there's nothing that excites me more than that. Oh, it's like, so the view of that, you're saying that a lot of the people your age are thinking that capitalism's bad, right?

What do they think of that situation? If you lay that out to them and you go, here's what's happened, right? This is what Wall Street Best did. This is the opportunity that people jumped on and here's what the government did.

What do they take from that? How are they looking at it? - I don't think like when it comes to money and investments, like they act like it's something evil and that like it's been demonized and like, oh, if you know how money and investments work, then that means you're probably a shit person.

And like, I don't think whenever you bring up stuff about money and investments, they just kind of like shy away from it. They're like, I don't even want to begin to understand that stuff.

And I haven't had too many conversations with like my normie friends about it. I do know one of my friends who was interested in Bitcoin. I don't think he has any, but he thought it was hilarious.

He was talking to me all about diamond hands and stuff and he's like, fuck the system, blah, blah, blah. Like he, he'll get into Bitcoin sooner or later. But yeah, dude, I just think they got it wrong.

And like, it's so weird to me because like, once you know the answer that the money is fucked and that's the reason why we have all this stuff, this bad stuff going on. It's like, it's so clear as day, but it's like people just can't see it for whatever reason.

Like, I remember I was, I was one of my favorite videos on YouTube. I know everyone hates him as a Bitcoiner 'cause he's not a Bitcoiner, but Peter Schiff one time, he had a camera crew follow him and he went down to the 99% or, you know, people who represent the 99% that were protesting Wall Street.

And he said, well, I'm gonna represent the 1% and I wanna debate you guys on, you know, the stuff that you're feeling. And the people were just throwing a bunch of bullshit at. I'm saying like, oh capitalism is bad.

Like we need socialism, we need more government control. And Peter Schiff is trying to tell him no, it's the government that's screwing you over. Like the Federal Reserve building is right down the road.

That's where you should be protesting. And every single time they just like, man, like what do you have against the government? Like are you some conspiracy or something? And like they just, like their appeal to authority is so strong that if you were to tell them that the Federal Reserve and the government

was screwing them over with the money, they would be like, no, are you crazy? Like they're supposed to represent us. Like it's, they're so blue-pilled in a brainwashed, it hurts. And that's what you get as a result from, and I touched on it in the article.

Like that's what you get as a result from letting the state educate you from ages kindergarten through 12th grade and even college. Like you, they have a clear incentive to not teach you stuff that you should actually know.

Like the quote I have in here is something along the lines of like, no one's gonna give you the education you need to overthrow them. No one's gonna teach you your true history, teach you your true heroes.

If they know that knowledge will help set you free. And they have a clear incentive to just brainwash you from a young age. So when you're older, they can take advantage of you by having you go into debt and just like, you just become a cash cow at that point in my opinion.

Like the only way to truly educate yourself is like, get education away from the government and by people who actually wanna push humanity forward. - You realize to 99% of the world, what you just said there, right, is mental and you are a conspiracy theorist, but so am I.

And let's just dig a little bit deeper. Let's go full conspiracy theory on this, right? So you're saying education is effectively a planned thing where we keep the people stupid. And I agree with you, I think it is.

And that the whole financial system is designed and developed in a way that keeps not only the people stupid, but also indebted and enslaved, because that's very good for them and to devalue their currency because the governments who carry the most debt, that's better, that the less value their currency is,

then they have to pay back less effectively. Like, how deep do you think this goes? And do you think that, the reason I'm asking this is, you said earlier about a lot of the younger people are starting to think that money's evil and they've got this idea that anyone who understands it is evil and they don't even wanna discuss it.

Do you think it goes as deep as that these narratives are being pushed maybe through social media and that it's almost like a brainwashing that it's to stop people seeing the reality. And so it's like, okay, focus on the millionaires and billionaires and the people who are successful and the capitalists, focus on them

so you don't see that we're fucking you. Do you think it goes that deep? - Oh yeah, 100%. Like, I even tweeted about it either like a few weeks or a month ago or something. Especially after the, the thing that really opened my eye to that was the whole 2020 elections, in my opinion, it was completely fraudulent.

Like, you can't deny the evidence and the videos of people doing fraudulent stuff who admitted it in the video. Like, I still remember that video of that lady. She had no idea she was being recorded with the guy in the car and she was like, "Yeah, the funny thing is, you know, Donald Trump's right.

"All this, you know, fraudulent activity is going on, "but no one's believing them "because we have the mainstream media "on our side censoring everything." And I mean, like, it just makes me think, like, everything I've seen up until that point, like, what haven't I seen?

What haven't I, what haven't? Like, what have they been keeping from me that would have made me act in a different way, if that makes sense? Like, I'm not getting proper, like, the proper news as I normally would if they're, you know, stepping in and changing stuff to make me think a certain way.

And it's just like, I start looking at the trending tweets in the sidebar of Twitter sometimes and you just see all propaganda, like, they love the crowd of people who are, like, cancel culture.

And if, like, those people have nothing better to do than to just tweet a bunch of hateful bullshit all day and they know that they can say, like, "Oh, this person did this. "That means they're a right-wing extremist.

"That means they're a neo-Nazi. "That means they're this, they're that." And the people, the cancel culture, people will have a fucking field day with it and they will blow it up on Twitter for what?

I don't even, I don't even know what they try and do. Like, it, it's kind of hard to explain. Like, when I, when they, when they cancel people on Twitter, it's like, it's like, you either think the way we think or we end your plot, you know, we end your account on this platform and you can't ever speak again.

So it's like, just having the same political opinion as your friends, your family, everyone on Twitter, all the politicians, all these, the mainstream media, like, it's not a good thing. Like, typically I found out if you're against whatever the mainstream media is pushing and whatever everyone else is pushing,

you're, you're gonna, you're probably right. Like, mainstream media has a clear incentive to push a bunch of bullshit and one of the things that pisses me off is they never, ever, ever get held accountable for anything they do.

And it's so fucking frustrating. Like, and it's like that a lot with amongst the elites and like, you know, politicians and stuff. Like, these politicians and elites, they do terrible shit.

Like, inhumane, disgusting shit. If I were to do anything remotely bad, I'd get my ass locked up in prison. I'd get fined a lot of money. Like, it just pisses me off how some people have absolutely no rules and like, rules don't apply to them at all.

But then they apply to me and everyone else. Like, who the fuck are these people to say that? Like, they're a human being just like me. They were born on this earth just like me. Like, it's just so frustrating and it gives me worked up sometimes 'cause it's just so stupid to me.

It doesn't make any logical sense. And yeah, I think social media has been turned into a giant brainwashing machine. And I remember talking with some people when like, earlier this year when the Patriot Act was expanding and now they're spying on all your social media stuff, even more because they were like, oh well,

because after the quote unquote capital riot, which wasn't even a riot, they were saying that, oh, we need to make sure this shit doesn't happen anymore. Like, we have to stop these quote unquote terrorist attacks before it happens again.

So we need to be able to spy on all your social media. And one of the things, I have two things to say on that. One, I'm thinking, well, they're just gonna deem people breaking quarantine as a terrorist activity.

So if you go outside or go to a friend's house and the FBI arrests you, like, that's fucked up. And I can totally see that happening. And then the second thing is, where was this happened?

Where was all this when Black Lives Matter and Antifa were burning down entire cities all throughout 2020? And there are videos and tweets of Kamala Harris, AOC, like Kamala Harris was bailing them out of jail to let them go riot more.

AOC was saying that it's okay if we riot and burn down places and lock down the economy and people lose their jobs 'cause if Donald Trump gets out, like that's the only important thing. Like these people are ruining other people's lives causing mayhem and destruction.

And then like, there's like no consequences, no consequences, it's a totally fair game, right? But then when some fucking patriots and people who say, oh my God, they just, they just stole an election.

Like that, we gotta do something. So they go and they protest and, you know, I think they were let into the Capitol building. I mean, like it's Washington, DC. It's like the most heavily guarded city in the world.

And it's like, you can't just walk in there, you know? So I think that was total BS, but it's like, these people were protesting something extremely fraudulent. And you're gonna say that that's a terrorist attack and all these other people aren't?

That's bullshit, that's total bullshit. So it's like, everything just goes out the window for me. I can't take any of these people seriously. They had lost all their credibility to me. And yeah, I just see bullshit left right in center.

And that's why I like Bitcoin so much 'cause like Bitcoin doesn't allow for this shit to happen. Like all the bad actors get fucked in the end. And like Bitcoin is just like this solid base layer of incorruptible monetary truth from which to build our society on pushing forward.

Like fiat society incentivizes lying, cheating, stealing, et cetera. Bitcoin incentivizes truth, storytelling, actually like being progressive and like progressing through life and building things that last hundreds to thousands of years.

And that's why I got even way even more into Bitcoin 'cause it's like this is the only way out from these corrupt governments and institutions. - Yeah, 'cause you can see how it all plays out.

You know, you can see, you know, I agree with you. I think it is mind control. I think it's carefully planned out. I think it's hiding people's emotions either through fear or anger and then misdirecting them and putting all of that fear and anger that they're feeling because of something the government's doing to them

and then directing it at somebody else. And then giving them these two choices, you know, blue and red left and right, both of them are bullshit and directing all of their attention into something that really at the end of the day makes no fucking difference at all 'cause none of the politicians give a shit about anyone.

Everything's short term. And we had it even here for some reason, all British people seemed to really care about what happened with Donald Trump, like especially the boomers. So anyone, my parents' generation, almost every time I'd see them, one of the first things that would be discussed is Donald Trump and it would be like showing

a stupid meme of him or like, it was always like laughing like, oh, look at this idiot and I was like, firstly, you're not American, so fuck off. Secondly, you don't know anything about the politics.

And thirdly, you're just wasting your time. There's so many more important things that you could be doing with your time than like smirking and taking the piss out of something that you don't understand.

But that comes to the brainwashing again and like, until people realize that your vote means fuck all and the only vote is Bitcoin, they don't get anywhere. And I love what you're saying there about, like it's long-term thinking, you know, rather than four years rather than everything just like,

nothing's built properly, everything's just bullshit. People just want to consume and it's just shit. Once you get into this Bitcoin mind frame, you can't help but change your behavior. It actually changes the way that you're thinking and the way you're behaving.

And as far as I can see it and what you're alluding to there is, it makes for a much, much better society and one that can really progress over time rather than what we're seeing at the moment.

It's just like it's embarrassing to be human a lot of the time. It's embarrassing to see the way that people behave. - And like one of the things I wanted to touch on is like in the brain, the last thing about the brainwashing thing is like, they will use anything and everything against you 'cause like they, all they need is votes, right?

Like they just want to vote, they want you to vote for them so they stay in power. One of the most fucked up things that I've seen happen and people can't see past it for whatever reason is.

Like I'm not a Democrat, I'm not a Republican, fucking both. I feel like I'm a new, I don't even like a little, yeah, Team Orange, I'm a big winner. And one of the most fucked up things I've ever seen is the Democrats using Black Lives Matter to keep them pissed off so they vote for them.

And I just think that is so fucked up using someone's skin color to keep them mad so they vote you in the power. Like that will forever blow my mind. And yeah, I mean like you have to be a different type of level of either so pissed off that you can't see clearly or just, in general just brainwashed.

And yeah, that's one thing that really annoys me but like people who are so in the politics, man. I have this theory of like, so I think they've absolutely killed God in society today. And I'm not, like I grew up Catholic, I went to church every week and with my family, I went to CCD, which is like a weekly church school.

I'm not like saying you have to believe in it. I'm still kind of deciding what I believe as well 'cause just studying history and like more religion and stuff like I'm not exactly sure 100% what I still believe in.

But I do think that you need some sort of religion in like social structure in a society because people need that like inner, like that inner compass telling them what's right and what's wrong and like how they should go about life, not telling them exactly what to think but like telling them like guiding them

in the right direction is what I'm trying to say. And they've absolutely killed God in society. They've killed sound money and like a few other things that I think society studying like anthropology, I think society absolutely must have to succeed.

And like the past 50 years, like we haven't had this stuff and it's been going downhill, society and civilizations and going downhill pretty quick. But I think that if you kill God in a society, you can't just like kill it and nothing replaces it.

Something is bound to replace it. Like people are like religious people, right? And what has been replaced? Like what has replaced God today? It's politics, it's big government and politics.

Like when, I mean, if you go on Twitter and you can't do this anymore because Donald Trump's ban but if you look at Donald Trump's Twitter mentions and Joe Biden's Twitter mentions and AOC's Twitter mentions, any politician, these people are religious about it.

I mean, they got their tweet notifications turned on, their chat and shit, they're arguing, they're saying, like they're praising these people as if they're God's. And I just can't imagine a worse thing than like you need like a good inner compass.

You don't need some politician who clearly has proven over year after year that he doesn't want what's best for you and he's taken advantage of you. Like I don't get how you can replace that inside you and like worship these people.

It's just, I think that's one thing that's wrong also. Like you mentioned like Red Team versus Blue Team. These people are like, man, like if you're a Democrat, if you're a Republican, like don't even talk to me.

Like it's just a divide and conquer tactic. And like this is a little bit also conspiracy but I think that the US is in a fantastic position geographically to the left and to the right. We have two big bodies of water.

So if Asia wanted to attack us or if Europe wanted to attack us, how do you do it? You can't necessarily shoot a gun across the ocean and have it hit us, you can't drive a tank, you know?

You gotta have long range missiles. I'm not worried about Canada or Mexico, love Canada, love Mexico, but they won't be doing shit to the United States anytime soon. So we're pretty much untouchable, right?

So how do you invade a country that is untouchable? - I know where you're coming here. - You do it from the inside. You get people on the inside, corrupt it to the core. You get the people turning against each other.

And I mean like the CCP, they've been overextended in their territory. I was reading about some stuff about them like invading countries in Africa and stuff and colonizing stuff there. And like, you know, I didn't read too much about this but they were like apparently gonna do something to Taiwan not too long ago.

Like it just seems like they're trying to conquer other places and invade. And like we've had CCP, there's that one girl, the CCP spy who slept with that one democratic dude and gave up a bunch of information and she went back to China with it.

I don't know if you know this but the CCP had made a deal with college board for the past like 12 years or something. And they had an influence over the way kindergarten through 12th grade was taught in the United States.

And like you gotta get in at the United States from the inside and that's how you take down this country. And the more I think about it, the more I start seeing like it's kind of playing out like and I think and is this a conspiracy or is this actually happening?

Like I think some people love calling stuff a conspiracy that like actually happens like for example like the election fraud like it was clear and obvious evidence like everyone saw it and people are still calling it a conspiracy but it's like dude if I walk up to you and I punch you in the fucking jaw and break your mouth

like are you gonna call that a conspiracy or are you gonna say that happened? 'Cause like you call with your own two eyes, you know? - It's a good way to make someone seem as if they're crazy.

You just go, oh, conspiracy theorist. Yeah, oh, as a conspiracy. It's like, well, you know, what you're saying there logically makes sense. Anyone with half a brain and although a lot of these politicians and the people behind the politicians are sociopaths and psychopaths, they're not stupid.

You know, they might be fucking evil but they're not stupid. And what you're explaining there about, you know, get in and start adjusting the way education is given and get in from the inside is the logical way that you would do things.

It's the most efficient, most effective way to do things. And then if you just think, well, if they've got money, they've got power, they've got influence and they want what would be best for them and worse for their competitors, they're gonna do it.

Like that's the whole thing we learn in Bitcoin about incentives and the way that things play out and normally they will play out the way that the incentives are aligned. I don't think that that's crazy to think that and I don't think that it's probably just happening in America.

I think it's happening all across Europe and, you know, my country here is just a fucking mess. You know, we can get, we can get imprisoned now for breaking lockdown rules and leaving our homes.

We're getting to a point where freedom to express yourself is no longer acceptable. You can get arrested for what you say. Freedom to move is no longer acceptable. You can get arrested for moving or trying to travel.

So your basic human rights are being stripped from you and that doesn't sound very free to me. It sounds as though this is all planned and orchestrated and that maybe COVID has been a perfect way to take more power, take away freedoms.

And it seems as though it's happening all across the world. It's very, very scary. - It seems like a plot to destroy the West. I mean, like the United States, like, I used to say we're the last free country on Earth and 2020 and 2021 is proving that we're not as free, we're not as nearly as free as I thought,

even though we do have some more freedoms compared to other countries. But like some of these countries, like let's say the CCP in China, they want full control. Dude, they fucking hate that we have freedom.

They hate everything about the West. And like that fires me up because dude, I think when I think about my future, like I'm a pretty chill laid back dude. All I want, like when I'm older is I want like a big piece of property with a big house, a nice car, a hot wife, and, you know, beautiful kids, right?

That's all I want. And the way I see all this stuff planning out is like they're trying to take that away from me. So Bitcoin is my best shot and I need to go all in that Bitcoin because at this point, it's either Bitcoin or it's communism.

Like I truly think Bitcoins are only shot. And it just amazes me, man. Like I used to think COVID was like an actual like, you know, zombie apocalypse, like, you know, serious virus. Like, oh shit, this is straight out of a movie.

Dude, one of the things that's crazy to me is, I remember seeing videos of people in China just straight dropping dead in the street and that freaked me out a bunch of other people. Where are those videos now?

I can't find that. - Exactly. - And it's like, man, we just got played. We just got played just in time for the election where, you know, the wet dog Joe Biden is just wanting to do whatever the CCP wants.

Like I think it just, as you can tell, I'm not a fan of communism. I fucking hate communism. I love freedom and just the ability to do what you want as long as you're not hurting or harming anyone else.

I think that's so important to humanity. - Who doesn't? Like what the fuck are these people doing? Where like, what you're explaining and what all Bitcoins are explaining is, you want the freedom to work hard and keep what we earn to have freedom but not take away anyone else's ability to be free and not cause any harm to anyone.

That's pretty fucking reasonable. That's pretty fucking reasonable compared to, we're not allowing you to move. We're gonna monitor you. We're gonna spy on you. We're gonna fucking brainwash your children.

We're gonna take away the chance to really be educated. We're gonna fuck your money. We're gonna steal your value. We're like, Jesus, you're an arsehole. Like these people are like the worst beliefs on the planet and all we're saying is like, can we just fucking have a bit of peace and quiet and just like look after our family

and just like be chilled people? That is seen as extreme. And like that's quite a weird world to be living in where something so simple and so reasonable is seen as extreme tells you something's very, very wrong.

It's like, oh, you just want a nice house in the hills. Like you just wanna quiet with your family and like, you know, grow some far, grow some crops. I was like, oh, you're, dude, are you in the KKK?

Are you a Nazi? Like you're an awful person. It's like, how do you even come to that? Like, dude, Senator Cynthia Loomis, she's a Bitcoiner. She posted the picture of her laser eyes on Twitter the other day.

And people were commenting until I hear otherwise, I'm going to assume that this is a QAnon conspiracy and, you know, right wing extremist stuff. I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, how do you wake up in the morning and look yourself in the mirror?

Like, how can you be that fucking like, stupid's not even the word for it, you know? It's, it, it blows my mind. It's just like, the way I saw it, and I've talked about this with like, Niko Bitvold on Twitter.

And like, we talk about how like, when America broke off from England, you know, England was like this monarchy. And when we broke away, we were like, okay, here are the rules, like, you know, here, like small government, all this stuff, here are the rules, now let's just build a nation

and develop this country and everyone just do whatever the fuck you need to do that needs to get done. And within like a hundred years, America went from just a big, you know, pot of land to like one of the biggest, you know, most advanced countries in the world.

And that's just what people can do, like, when they're not being held back by a government, like people can fully flourish and like, just advance in life and propel humanity forward. Like, government is the most inefficient, the most inefficient people I've ever met in my life.

And I'm laughing 'cause I was reading a tweet by Vake this morning and he was like, I can't wait for all the government rent seekers who don't provide any value to society to get laid off and then have to fill out a job application, just like the rest of us and get denied a hundred times

and then realize, wow, I don't provide any value to society. Like, I just want to provide value. I want to see, you know, me and all my friends do dope shit and move our life forward, like, going back a little bit to like, the Zoomer and like Gen Z mindset, it's like, dude, they've villainized money so much.

It's like, they literally love to have fun staying poor, but they hate it at the same time. And it's like, I thought successful people were supposed to strive to be wealthy and successful in whatever, you know, area they work in.

Like, I mean, that seems pretty cool to me, so I'm going to do that, y'all can have fun staying poor and just being mad and miserable and nothing. Like, all these people too, they got like, I swear they got some like, mental issue, like not born with, but like developed through like their hatred and just like, whatever else.

Like, I swear all of them got depression. Like, that shit's not normal, you know? You should be happy. You should be, you know, wanting to do well in life and stuff. And yeah, man, it's just so crazy.

Yeah, the fear at standard. So taking it from like, I can sit and bash government and all of this stuff all day long, I fucking hate them. But let's take it to a positive note and let's imagine for a second, and I think this is going to happen, that we do transition to a Bitcoin standard,

that we do take away these government's power to print and therefore to have no accountability. Because if they can't print, then they have to have the accountability, they either have to tax people or they have to create value from something and they can't fucking do that because they're as inefficient as they are.

So the only other option is to tax people and eventually there comes a tipping point where they can fuck off. So if we think of that world and we think of being on a Bitcoin standard and we think that, you know, some of this brainwashing stuff can slowly go away because we can have better schooling

and people can be educated really on money and understand the things that we're talking about today. Like, where do you see this world going? You know, if we look at it on that positive outlook, how do you think things are going to change and how do you see the people in your generation changing the world?

Because that's really it's going to be your generation that's going to be doing that. What do you see coming? - I think we have to educate the youth correctly, like get them started from a young age.

Like, just one last touch on this. Like, when we educate the youth, like we were talking about how the government has a clear incentive to teach you stuff that is in favor of them. And it's like, we need to teach kids that socialism and communism are just as bad as being like a Nazi.

And like, the only way moving forward is to provide value and be happy and, you know, do free market capitalism 'cause that's proven by history to work. And I think a lot of people my age in some of the millennials maybe are just so brainwashed to the point where it's like, like even some of the people who work

in some like finance jobs on a fiat standard today who are older, like just the mere thought of like trying to comprehend a Bitcoin standard is so opposite. It's a complete 180 from everything they know.

It's just, I don't think some people will actually be able to comprehend it. So I think some people will, I think some people will really open their eyes and they'll be open to it. Some will move on to a Bitcoin standard easier than others, but I think there are some people who are so stubborn out there that like,

they just, this might sound fucked up but they just gotta get old and die off. And then we educate, you know, people who are getting born today, the right way, like those people are gone, they're lost, whatever, they can have fun staying poor.

Well, we're gonna get on a new standard. It's gonna take a while. I don't know how, I know a lot of Bitcoins like saying we're gonna be on a full Bitcoin standard within the next 10 years.

I have no idea how that'll play out. - It would be nice, but... - Yeah, there's very many factors. There's so many factors that go into it and some of the more authoritarian governments are not going to bend the need of Bitcoin.

Like we saw Nigeria, the government saying that even though they can't regulate it, like there's no point in it, they can't control it, it makes their currency weak and useless, they're still not adopting it.

You know, they're trying to make it illegal for the people over there to transact in it, but the Chads over in Nigeria are still using it, it's still going strong and it's amazing to see.

I think something tragic would have to happen to get everyone on board super quickly. I mean, I think hell would have to be raining down from above and you know, your life is in danger because of a fiat standard and there's war going on and you're like, oh my God, this was the moment it clicked for me that like, we can't be doing this

as a society, we need a peaceful society of everyone collectively agreeing to be peaceful, not everyone being peaceful because they're forced that you know, the will of a gun to be peaceful.

And I think a lot of those people will come to realize that Bitcoin is literally the only option we have and it's the best option, it's an amazing option. And yeah, so yeah, I just think educate the kids well,

given a proper education, some of the boomers will be the lot, especially the ones to deal with a legacy financial system and the ones in government don't never get it. Even if they do get it, they can admit it because it goes against their job and they'll get fucked over every which way.

Even people like, I mean, people like Peter Schiff, Peter Schiff would be an amazing asset to Bitcoiners, but he won't admit it, he knows Bitcoin's the way, he knows it's better than gold.

He knows gold is gonna lose nearly all of its monetary value and it's just gonna be used for gold teeth and computer parts and stuff, but he won't admit it because he has a clear profit incentive.

Yeah, his clear profit incentive from his company Schiff Gold, which I mind you, accepts Bitcoin as a form of payment. So it's funny. - I know. Yeah, it's sad 'cause a lot of people take his advice and they take him seriously and they don't realize that he knows he's wrong.

He's not that stupid. He's a smart guy. He's just taking the piss and he's trying to make the profit and it's sad 'cause people are listening to him and they're gonna lose money and they're not gonna have fun staying poor.

And I'm sure he has bags of Bitcoin and he just doesn't tell anyone. But yeah, I mean, like you say, a lot of these boomers just won't get it and also they won't have the competency if we do go to war effectively and we do have this kind of world where the governments are trying to ban it, they're not gonna win.

It's fucking ridiculous. At the end of the day, they've lost. They're not stopping this thing. And the generations who like grow up with tech, the people who grow up with tech, they're gonna be able to use this stuff.

Like you've already said, you know, you're using coin join, you're running nodes, you're doing all the stuff and you could probably do it in your sleep. Like for me, it's a little bit more difficult.

I'm a few years older than you and I'm not so techy, but I'm doing it. But it just takes a bit of work. The generation underneath you, Jesus, they're born into this. They're just, it's just gonna be so fucking obvious.

Like you try and tell them, I'll use these paper notes or ask your banker, use a nine to five or use this fucking gold. They're gonna just think you're absolutely stupid because they're just born into this world of tech.

They're born into this world where like they're connected all the time and they can do what they want all the time. So nothing else is gonna make sense. And they're gonna come up with, I'm sure some crazy stuff.

Like I get blown away every day just seeing the developments within Bitcoin of people doing it now. Can you imagine what it's gonna be like in 10 years when these systems are built out and things are, it's just like it's very exciting.

- Oh yeah, I mean, just like a Ben Kaufman, the dude's 19 years old. He's two years younger than me. Way, way smarter than me. And he has coded a brilliant computer program called Spectre Wallet.

And it's amazing. Like everyone loves it. I've talked to Matt Odell about it a few times. He freaking loves it. Like it's awesome to see. - I use it every day. - It's so cool. And it's like the younger these kids, like they're gonna start seeing the opportunity cost between Bitcoin and college.

And they're gonna opt into doing more Bitcoin stuff. I'm pretty sure Ben Kaufman's a college dropout as well. Or maybe he didn't even go again with it. - No, no, he dropped out really. I had him on my show bit by bit a few weeks ago.

And he told me the story of how he dropped out 'cause he was already starting working at like 14 years old and developing software for money. And he was just like, oh, what's the point in going to school?

I'm already fucking earning. Like that guy is a beast. He is a beast. And he's still got time to spend, you know, he's on Twitter, memeing and shit posting. And yeah, people like that hype me up 'cause I just think the future is so bright.

So, so bright. - He is such a quality shit poster, dude. It's just so funny, I'm always cracking up at his tweets. And I just think like, man, like some of these younger kids, they're gonna start, they're gonna look to Ben and say, hey, can you mentor me?

Can you share with me, you know what you did, how you did this? And he's gonna share his insights and knowledge. I mean, it's just gonna cause a snowball effect. And all these younger kids who are so damn tech savvy, they're gonna wanna do computer stuff, you know?

Like going back to another thing he said was like, the whole thing about kids younger than me picking it up easily is like, dude, they're used to online virtual currency. I mean, the kids go crazy.

Like elementary school kids, middle school kids go crazy for V-Bucks in Fortnite. Fortnite's just a video game. And like the currency in the game is called V-Bucks and it allows them to buy new games.

- And the skins and all that stuff, yeah. - Even when I was in high school, people would buy so much of it. Even when I was younger, I would play FIFA with my brother and my friends and we would play this mode called Ultimate Team.

And like you can build your own team and like pick players from different clubs and stuff. And we'd be like, man, like it takes a while to play games and earn coins. Like we can just go to the store and buy, you know, an Xbox gift card or a PlayStation gift card.

And then just buy the coins there and open up packs and buy players and stuff. And like we valued that stuff 'cause I would always like be on the market looking for players. Like man, like, or like I would go out and I would mow lawns or shovel snow and get Fiat and then have my mom drive me to the grocery store

so I could get an Xbox gift card. So I can, you know, buy the players. And like, like the idea of virtual currency is just, it's ingrained into us now. And yeah, like I've never once in my entire life thought, hmm, can I pay in gold here?

Or should I even pay my value in gold? Like, well, my grocery store, my local restaurant, except gold as a payment, like dude, there's no way. It's just, it's not- - It's such a shit coin.

- And I just think like, I'm sitting here in my apartment and I'm looking around, I don't have the space to keep boxes of gold bars in my place. And if I do, I risk someone breaking in and stealing it and oh, well, you can make the argument, keep it in a, you know, bank or something.

Well, they already executive ordered 6102 it back in 1933. So I know my gold's not even safe there 'cause it can get confiscated. - Yeah. Yeah. It's a pointless argument arguing it with the boomers and like you say, it sounds horrific, but they will die.

And, you know, these younger generations, it is just gonna be so obvious for them. It is so obvious. It's like, it's not just slightly better than gold. It is a thousand times better than gold.

And, you know, all of these in-game purchases and all this sort of stuff I really believe is gonna happen with Bitcoin. I really believe that Sats will be the standard, you know, people like Zebedee sort of integrating Bitcoin and lightning into gaming and all this stuff.

Like it just, I'm not a gamer, I'm not that techy, but it just makes sense to me. I can't see what else is gonna happen other than that. And when that happens, it's gonna just be so ingrained in society, it's gonna be used for everything.

And I just think it's inescapable. Like I think that we've got to that point now where bar some critical bug or some, I don't know, we get hit by a meteor or something like that, we're going to a Bitcoin standard.

Like it's gonna happen.

It's so inevitable. And one thing I wanted to bring up was, I think it was Zebedee. Maybe not Zebedee, it was Mint Gox. It was one of the gaming companies in Bitcoin. They integrated it into CSGO, which is like one of the most, it's like arguably the world's biggest video game.

It's like an online shooter for a computer. And they integrated it somehow. And I was like, this is just the start. Like it's gonna be and everything. Like I can so see a future where I load up my computer and I click on Steam and I can pay for games in the Lightning Network on Bitcoin or kids load up their Xboxes or Playstations

and they wanna buy a game and they just pay in Bitcoin through their phone. And like it's just so easy. And like it speeds up the company so much quicker as well because they don't have to wait for payment processors and merchants, like the merchants don't have to wait for the payment processors.

And like the thing about Bitcoin that like blew my mind as well was like, it's not just like people say, oh, Bitcoin is so slow. Like it takes, you know, 10 to 30 minutes plus to get a transaction to confirm.

It's like, well, that's final settlement, dude. And look at these fiat payment processors. They take weeks to a month to get final settlement. Like this completely changes the game forever.

Like they don't have to wait around waiting for money all day every day. And a lot of people think like, oh, when I go to pay, if I go to, you know, my local grocery store and pay for my groceries and my credit card, they get the money right away, but they don't.

Like they just say, okay, we got your stuff. You know, we know we trust Visa, we trust MasterCard to get us the money. So that's why the transaction. So quick is because, you know, they trust Visa and MasterCard to get them the money once you swipe your card or insert the chip.

And it's like, that's not final settlement. The money's not there, 100%. But with Bitcoin, it is. And I think that just changes everything. And I hate the argument so much that Bitcoin is slow.

Bitcoin is, you know, it's expensive. But it's like, I used to have this chart. I'll have to find it, but it's like, it shows the Bitcoin transaction speed in terms of security against like the other altcoins and stuff, which I don't think is the right comparison.

You got to compare Bitcoin to gold because altcoins aren't even really competition for Bitcoin. But like people say, oh, my altcoin is faster. It's like, it got there faster, but it's extremely weak.

Like there's no point in using it. It's like, I like Michael Saylor's analogy of it where it's like, like imagine like a superhero, right? You can be a superhero that shoots lasers out of his eyes, which is kind of relevant to the memes going on.

But, you know, shoot lasers out of your eyes. You can fly. You can, you know, transform into something else. Like that's all dope. But if a gun can kill you, or if you can die as like a mortal person, you're screwed.

But what about a guy who is indestructible? You can't shoot him. You can't punch him. Like he cannot die. But he doesn't have many offensive strategies. He can just pick up a machine gun and spray everyone down.

Like he's indestructible. And that's what big, that's how I see Bitcoin. It's like, it's this indestructible base layer that we can add on to it. So let's say it's this indestructible superhero.

Well, if we want lasers shooting it out of its eyes, we develop something and we call it the lightning network. And now we have instant final settlement, fast transactions that happen within a second.

And like it just, that's the tone for Bitcoin moving forward. It's like, we're really gonna do this shit. We're really going to make this online virtual currency, the world reserve currency, because it already has the network effects.

It already has the monetary properties that make it a good money. And it fixes the problems of, that all forms of previous money have failed, is that it failed to retain its monetary properties.

And someone was able to get in and compromise the money and produce more of it. And the downfall is money printing. Money printing never works. We've seen it with the rhizestones on the island of Yap.

We've seen it with the glass beads in Africa. We've, I mean, we haven't found a way to do it with gold yet or not really, but one can make the argument as gold moves up in price that just gives the incentive for people to produce more of it.

So they find new ways to extract gold from the earth, produce more of it and it's just, it's not feasible, you know? And then Bitcoin just got hard-capped 21 million. That's like, it fixes that.

It fixes the problems of gold. It's not centralized, completely decentralized. Only decentralized crypto currency, I think. And dude, I'm just so damn bullish. (laughing) - Me too, me too.

Well, look, I think we should probably close the interview out there or in the next couple of minutes. I'll try and keep them to around an hour and a half. I could keep chatting to you all day.

It's been really, really cool to get to know you, mate. It's very exciting and it makes me more bullish to see that people in your age group are just fucking understanding this so well. It's incredible.

And yeah, I just wanted to say like I really, really enjoyed the article. We've sort of dipped in and out of it a little bit. I haven't wanted to go into it too much because people will be able to read it on the website.

But yeah, is there anything that we haven't gone through that you wanted to cover? Is there any shilling of anything that you can do any of your other articles or things coming up that people can look out for?

- Yeah, so number one, I also really enjoyed this conversation. I love how like I've never talked to you before. And then we just get on this call and it's like we talk like we're old friends.

And I've noticed that it's like that with all Bitcoiners, dude. We all just gel so well together and it's always a really good time. And I guess I'll do a couple of shout outs. Shout out to Optimus Field.

He's my co-host at Bitcoin Kindergarten. It's a weekly show we do at 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific, US time on Discord. We have people come in and do live presentations and we do like an educational section and then we end that recording and do a new recording and just chat bullshit for like an hour

and just, you know, it's a live audience. So we normally have like 20 to 30 people there and it's pretty fun. So if any of you guys are out there and you wanna come by, you're more than welcome to.

Also, if you are interested in going to the Bitcoin conference, the Bitcoin 2021 conference in Miami hosted by the company I work for, Bitcoin Magazine, use code Satoshi and all caps for 10% off general admission tickets.

I'm super hyped for that conference and I can't wait for it. And I wanna meet everyone who goes there. And other than that, I don't really have anything too much else to show. That's awesome.

Yeah. Like you said, it's amazing how we can have this conversation. And like you say, it feels like talking to an old friend. If you ever do find yourself in London when this travel stuff stops and you can move again, give me a shout.

All the 21ism boys here would love to go get some drinks or something, get some steak. I think a few of them, I won't dox them, but I think a few of them are going out to the conference. I'm not sure if I will be or not, but if I am, I'll give you a shout.

But yeah, it's been great. It's been really, really cool. And I look forward to speaking again soon and also checking out your pod as well. - 100% dude, well, thank you for having me on, man.

I really enjoyed this. - All right, mate, take care. Speak soon.