EP82 Bitcoin podcast with @Diverter_NoKYC

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.

Let's go!

Now, what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison. Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero. Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!

Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! All right, you ungovernable misfits. I'm your host, Max. Everybody knows that Bitcoin is useless, worthless, and doomed to fail, but what if everyone's wrong?

What if it's the system that is doomed to fail? Join me as I speak to some of the brightest people in the world. Join me as I speak to everyone in the space and deliver to the deepest, darkest depths of the Bitcoin rabbit hole.

Welcome back, everyone. Today's guest is Diverta. I've been looking forward to this conversation for a very long time. Diverta has influenced some of my favourite Bitcoiners, Econo Alchemist and Bitcoin Q&A included.

He is privacy-focused, freedom-focused. And he helps you use the tools to take back your freedom. If you haven't already checked out his work, definitely go across and have a read. He puts things in simple terms.

It's not too crazy technical, and step-by-step, using the tools, you can take back your freedom. Before we dive in, I want to say thank you very much to Coin Floor UK for sponsoring the show, if anyone is looking to dollar-cost average in, especially now with this lovely

dip, I am absolutely gutted that I've got no more dirty fit to pile into this. I'm hoping my house sells soon, and I'll be piling in, so please don't buy too hard. Let's let this dip happen for another few weeks, just so that I can get a buy-in.

Yeah, if you're looking to dollar-cost average, it is a great place to go. If you use my code, which will be in the show notes, then you will get 30% off, and it also gives me a little bit of a kickback as well, which helps me support the show and grow the show.

So, check them out at Coin Floor UK. Next up is my new sponsor, Crypto Clokes. Any of you plebs who are lurking on Bitcoin, Twitter will know these guys already. They are proper Bitcoiners, they only accept Sats, and I've had them on bit by bit.

We've also had them on 21ism as a feature, so if you haven't checked those out, go and have a listen and you will hear what these guys are all about. They are here for the revolution, and they are doing some incredible stuff.

I'm very, very proud to have them as sponsors, and they're also one of only two companies that have ever managed to price Sats out of my hands. I'm a tight bastard, but they have some of the coolest products out there.

They've got some incredible node cases, including the Triton, they've got their Lightning node case, and if you're running something like a Raspberry Blitz and you've got a screen on there, you can have that included.

You can customize these things with your own colors. I've got something really cool coming soon, actually, and I'm very, very excited. And yeah, just check them out. I promise you I'd be disappointed.

They are really, really cool, and like I say, I am very proud to have them as a sponsor. I'd also like to say, before we dive in, thank you to everyone who's been listening to the show, who's been sharing it with their friends, who's been commenting.

It's been really cool. I have enjoyed this journey very much, and I've met some great friends along the way. So thank you for listening, and I hope you enjoy. Hey, mate, you there? Can you hear me?

I can hear you now. I don't know what happened there. I was trying to send you messages through Twitter, and just nothing was loading. I always have sort of tech problems, but this was next level.

This was really fucking bad, so I was a bit worried. I'd lost you there. No, that was weird, no, no, yeah, you're good to go, trying to get everything situated here. Well, welcome to the show.

It's been a long time coming. I've been looking forward to this one, and I'm just about to crack open a nice beer because it's nice and hot here. Yes, right. Yes. So, Lynn, get to know you, mate.

So yeah, it's like I say, it's been a while, and I've been sat just reading through some of your articles and bits and pieces, and a few others that I've had on this show constantly sing your praises, and I just thought, who better to have on and talk some Bitcoin, talk some privacy, and some freedom, so thank you.

They don't know any better, so don't hold it. They'll learn eventually. Yeah, man, I'm looking forward to it. Just have a nice little chat, talk about a few things. I've the same way, like I said, Bitcoin Q&A, we talk quite a bit, paying ideas off of each other ever now, and then he's doing outstanding work.

That guy is a machine, putting that good content. It's crazy. Yeah, there's something in me that just thinks it's not possible to do the amount that he does. I like this conspiracy of him having a team of lesbians working for him, that's what I've heard.

There's something going on there. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's otherworldly, it doesn't make any sense. You yourself as well, I mean, you're putting out huge amounts of content.

I've heard you say that you don't class yourself as a techie person, but what you've managed to achieve certainly seems pretty technical to me and seems very impressive to me. It's the sort of stuff that spurs me on, because I look at what you guys are doing and the steps that you're taking, and it smells like freedom.

It's fucking cool when everything else seems to be crumbling around. There's just a little subset of people who are saying, "Now fuck that, I'm going to do something myself," and that's what I really love about this movement.

I love to see people just taking control, so it's impressive. Like you said, yeah, I'm absolutely not like a technical person, but at the same time, the thing is I'm also not Peter McCormant, so I refuse to stay in this permanent bubble and act like people don't grow and aren't capable of learning new things and learning how to do things.

My whole kind of deal or whatever is I try to look and see where is there a gap or a hole, or where is there something that's missing where people are not doing a thing because they think it's too hard when in fact it's actually a lot simpler to watch you think,

so that's kind of was one of the first things I did when I came out and wrote mining for the streets is at the time I could not anywhere, I could not find anything that was actually encouraging people to mine, everything you read, everything you saw anywhere you posted comment about it.

The first thing you hear back is, oh no, just buy Bitcoin, you'll come out better just buying Bitcoin, don't even worry about that stuff. And it just struck me as crazy like this entire movement, this whole thing is supposed to be centered around this removal of trust, trust minimization, don't trust, verify, except

for mining, except for that. And when it comes to mining, just go ahead and trust that these big huge mining forms, they're going to take care of everything. You don't worry about that, you just buy Bitcoin, that struck me as odd, like why?

So you know, I started mining myself once I read into it, looked into it a little bit, I'm like, I feel like I could make this thing work, it doesn't look like it's that hard, you know, so I just gave it a shot and I bumped my head against a few walls, I bought a terrible awful shitty, dusty, God awful miner off of eBay.

And so I learned you don't buy off eBay, you know, and then, so basically, all I really try to do on this stuff is just find my way through a dark room, I don't know where I'm going necessarily, but I'm just feeling around for light switches here and there and when I find one, I show everybody else.

That's a nice way of putting it. And you're right, the mining thing was a narrative I never really questioned. It was just like you said, you know, just buy, don't even think about it, it's too much hassle, it's too much work and I went along with it to a point where I finally went on, do you know what?

Because of the KYC3 side of it, I was like, fuck it, I'm going to buy a couple of miners, so I bought some S17s, maybe a year and a half ago or something like that. I managed to get my hands on them, got them over, I was in a studio flat that I was selling, so it was very hot, very noisy.

But I never managed, I never managed to connect to that AMP miner software, like it just would not, whatever I was doing, I could not get it to connect and I did a load of support tickets and all that sort of stuff and I was busy with other stuff.

And after about, I don't know, two weeks of fucking around and just literally getting nowhere, I just went, oh, bollocks, I'm selling them and I wish I hadn't. I wish I hadn't because now with the guides and like you're saying, without someone showing you the light and talking about this stuff, I was just banging my head against the brick

wall, but now there's documentation out there you can read through and I made a mistake, I should have stuck with it, it was stupid. You know, seeing, for myself, seeing people like Econo Alchemist, you know, and which by the way, and we could talk about this a little later, just met him at a Barram's

a Bitcoin conference and he is exactly what you think he is, he's perfect as he is. He's perfect as he is. I'm telling you that yeah, but seeing him and talking to him and believe me, he is not shy about telling everyone, like, I would not have done this had I not read this guide, like,

I would not have done and that right there, I mean, you know, it kind of, it hits you right in the fields, you know, and it's like this guy is essentially taken to baton for me is what it kind of feels like, you know, like he, he read this thing and he was like, well,

well, you know what this actually kind of this makes sense, you're right. And he bought up, he went out, he bought a minor, he went through his whole mechanism and documented all his stuff the same way and took off.

And so now it's almost like he wrote an updated version of mining for the streets, you know, and if you look at the, the financial sides of it, you know, whenever I wrote mining for the streets, the whole, the entire reason it came out when it did was because BTCX Exelco, he was just incessant about this mining guide.

I want to get a minor. I want to get a minor. And I just kept saying it's not that hard. Well, write something up then, you know, so that that's kind of what led to this whole thing coming about.

I had no intention of originally writing anything, but then, you know, I was like, well, let me wait till after the halving because after the halving, you know, when the reward drops, the prices for these miners are going to change, the reward's going to change, a hash rate's

going to change, everything's going to change after this halving. So let me just wait till right after that, because that's the best time to, you know, deploy a minor, you had a perfect storm, you had a halving coming, you had new generation miners coming out that, you know, now they've got their full lifecycle ahead of them.

And so it's kind of the perfect storm. So pop that out there and at the time, you know, as the difficulty adjustment is designed to do mining was it's a, it's a very self balancing kind of thing, like it's very efficient.

And so, you know, depending on your electricity at that time, you were, you know, you could be maybe losing a few cents or a few dollars and being willing to pay that premium for non-KYC Bitcoin, or if you had good electricity rates, you could have been actually profitable right, right then, right after the halving.

Now fast forward till now, and what we see is we hit this like ASIC shortage, where these manufacturers are not able to keep up with the demand. And that has coincided with a dramatic price increase.

So the difficulty is, is unable to keep up with price right now. And what that results in is ridiculously profitable mining. I mean, ridiculously profitable. So anybody that did read that guide and it did spur them to action and they actually said, you know what, I'm going to do it.

And they went out and they bought a miner and they deployed it unless they are paying like over 40 cents per kilowatt hour for their electricity. They're making pretty good money right about now.

And it's KYC free. And it's KYC free. That's right. And it comes to me like it's the best type of KYC free you could possibly have if it's set up correctly, because there's always some risk.

Like I'll often say to people I'll use Bisc or use HODL HODL and, you know, they're good. I really like the services, but you still have somebody you have to trust, just still giving your banking details to somebody else.

And you don't know who that person is. So there is some risk. And the same if you go and do it for cash, there's still some risk, you don't know who you're dealing with. Whereas with a miner, it seems if it's set up correctly, well, as long as you do things

right, your end, you've got some stats coming your way and you're not depending on anyone else. Am I missing something there or is that correct? Well, I mean, for the most part, correct? Yes.

The only, I guess, kind of hits in this whole thing is that the way these, the vast majority of these pools are set up is that you mine, you give them your hash rate, okay? And the mined Bitcoin actually goes into their wallet.

And then once you hit a certain payout threshold, then they send the Bitcoin to your wallet. Okay. So there is a slight aspect there where they actually have custody of the Bitcoin that you're mining.

They have custody, but they presumably don't have any personal details. Exactly. Right. Right. They have security and risk of loss rather than actual information being leaked. Sure. Exactly.

Yeah. And that's why I'm mining for your streets. One of the things that I put out, I didn't really get too much into the pool selection other than to say, you know, don't skimp on reputation for, you know, a smaller percentage because, you know, a lot of these pools, I mean, it would be possible for them to just,

you know, pack it in and not send you the Bitcoin. There are, you know, other pools that don't operate that way. For example, Laurentia pool, Laurentia, however, has pronounced mine farmed by is involved with heavily in that they, they paid directly from the Coinbase reward payout.

So that aspect is completely gone, which is really, really neat. The only thing is like some of some miners due to the way that their pool is set up. Some miners don't work on it. So like I can't mine to Laurentia pool because I can't, I can't connect to it.

But point being, there are ways around that and I've often said in the past that I kind of think that's one area where regulators haven't yet gone, but that they will as possibly trying to look at these pools as like the money transmitters in some way, since they do actually take the custody of the Bitcoin and then transfer it to you.

So we haven't seen that yet. I think we eventually will. And, you know, the good thing about it is switching pools is literally as simple as a click of a mouse. And I feel like what would happen if they were to go after it was, it would spur more pools to do the better payout scheme of paying directly from Coinbase.

I like to think that anyway. Yeah, I think so. And you're saying, you know, it hasn't happened yet, but you think it probably will happen. That's my opinion as well. I think anything that people in control can do to keep control, they will do at some point.

It's just like, it's a question of time, not if. Sure. So it's good to know that people are sort of trying to think ahead and trying to think of ways around it, because I've spent a lot of time, I'm definitely not technical.

You call yourself not technical, but far more technical than I am. But I'm trying because the more time I look into this, the more I realize how many attack surfaces there are here and how probably I would say how naive I was, maybe even a year ago thinking, oh, it can't fuck with Bitcoin, oh, you know, they can't fuck with me.

But actually, I wasn't realizing that my UTXO management was fucking horrible. I was buying from different exchanges, I wasn't using my own node or what, you know, I was using my Mac, I was using all these things that when you add them all up together, it's not good.

Right. Right. It's really not good. And so I like this approach that is being taken, which is find something that you can fix and fix it and then move on to the next thing and just incrementally get better because my concern is so many people are sitting back on their laurels thinking, oh, we're fine.

No. I was going to touch us and you only need to look at history to know that's not true. Oh, it's, it's, it's coming. It's just a matter of, of, of when and the excuse that they'll use to get there.

But they'll find one, you know, climate's a really good one right now. They'll probably throw it in as well. Classic. But, you know, that's the thing you, you, you've hit on it here. And the thing is personal responsibility, honestly, it just doesn't scale.

Not every, that, you know, samurai wallet is quite often that, you know, they're fond of saying, you know, that mass adoption is the poison pill. I firmly agree with that sentiment because if we were to see quote unquote mass adoption, well, then the thing that would get mass adopted, there's no way it would actually be the Bitcoin

that we know now. It's not possible. There's no way. A billion people do not want to be their own bank. They don't want to take full personal responsibility of their finances. They don't want to take full personal responsibility of all of their data storage.

They don't want it. And they're not going to do it. So, you know, that's why this quote unquote uncle Jim model that I've kind of been touching on here lately. That's why I think it's so important and it's actionable.

You know, you can actually do it. You take some work, but there are people out there that are willing to do the work. It's just not everybody. Everybody's not willing to do the work, but everybody doesn't have to be only you need to be, you know, you're that person.

Nobody's coming to do it for you, you know, so that's kind of the thing I try to stress to everybody. It's like you are the person that you're waiting for to come save you. It's you. Yeah, it's possible for all of us to do to do better, you know, everyone can do better.

There's always going to be a level where, you know, there is there is a level where there's some stuff when it comes to the self hosting stuff and a lot of this kind of things that you've been writing about and Bitcoin Q&A is really into as well.

Some stuff there where I go, you know what, I'm moving out of my house. I'm going to be mobile. This stuff doesn't really make sense for me right now. And I will just park that on the side, but there are so many other steps that are in between that where I'm like, okay, this makes complete sense.

You know, you've talked about password managers. That's something that I've been trying to sort out and use a UB key and these kind of things and moving away from fucking ledgers across the cold card.

And you know, that that was something that I honestly, I was really scared. I was like, I was on the phone to Bitcoin Q&A like, mate, oh, I don't know. I'm really scared. What about? You know, I don't understand what I'm doing.

Just read through the guide, read through it again. Go through it. Then tell me where you get stuck. The thing is that these guides and having people like you guys to just reach out to and just have someone to reassure 90% of the time, it is just me being hyper paranoid

and thinking, oh, I'm going to fuck something up and I'm going to lose all my sat and 90% of the time, it is just that you go, no, no, you're fine. Just do exactly what you said you were going to do.

And then, you know, maybe 10% of the time, he goes, no, fucking, definitely don't do that. That's really done. So it's just that balance and a little bit of hand holding. You know, fear can be very healthy, though, you know, it's a good thing to be worried

that, you know, I'm going to do something that's going to mess up and I'm going to lose it. That's fine. It's perfectly understandable. But you know, we're reaching a point now where people are going to start having to understand that they have to overcome this fear.

Like the choice is going away now, you know, for so long it's been, you know, you've had you've had the ability to make the decision whether or not, you know, you really felt like going through all this trouble and, you know, overcoming this fear of messing something up and it's not that big of a deal.

That choice is being actively taken away from us now and people are, I said this a few times at the conference, you know, it's like the government is literally grabbing people and shaking them away, wake up, wake up, do you not see what we're doing to you?

And so all these choices, you know, all these things that used to be, well, yeah, maybe I will. Maybe I won't. Now it's coming to a point where this fear has to be overcome by somebody, you know, and that's the point that I try to, you know, why it can be you, it really can be.

And that's why the, you know, host thing has been kind of where I'm focusing on because first of all, the universe was kind of pointed out to me, I was pointed in that direction. I, most that's Bitcoin enemies, which is severely underrated community, by the way.

But you know, it kind of pointed me in that direction. And then when I started looking at it, I was like, this is, this is it. This is perfect because it's a whole lot of things that could be done different ways.

You can do them more technically. You can do all this other stuff. But why? Like, why, you know, like it's all right here. It's a one click installation. And if we're going to ask people to do the work and actually start taking, you know, taking this self responsibility, you have to do it in such a way that it at least is some bit

of a convenience. You know what I mean? It can't be all work. It has to, there has to be at least a light at the end of that tunnel where you can see that, okay, once I get this done, then everything else is going to be so easy.

And that's exactly what this uno host does is essentially just let you install this uno host system. And then once you're up and running, it's one click installation of password managers.

It's one click installation of next cloud. Maybe even your own matrix server and synapse, like all this stuff. And it's, it's able to be done. And it's able to be done in such a way that not everyone has to do it.

You can do it for your family and your friends. And then, you know, maybe there's one person in that group in that outdoor group. Okay. Well, I can do this too. Then they do it for their family and their friends.

That type of model, now that has some scale to it, you know, yeah. So that's where I've kind of been, you know, looking and focusing my efforts on because I want it to be easy enough that anyone can do it, but not so easy that you have to give over too much of your data or, or something to make too severe of a trade off.

It's always this thing of trade offs, isn't it? Yeah. Where does this lie? You know, host from what I understand from what you just said. It's kind of like you're not running your own hardware, but you are renting maybe cloud storage space that you have control over.

Is that right? It can be done either way. You can run it on your own hardware. You can run it on virtual machines. It runs on regular computers, Raspberry Pi's, any way you want, or you can run it using a VPS.

Okay. I've been kind of focusing more on the VPS stuff. I'm going to start getting more into other things later. But you know, the thing is like when you're dealing with the Uncle Jim model, which is kind of what I've been talking about, there's more learning that you have to put into like

the networking side of things when you have to start worrying about like, okay, am I going to be exposing my IP address to the world here, for example? And so using a VPS alleviates that concern.

You don't have to really learn about networking anymore using a VPS. You don't really have to go out and buy any other specialized hardware. You don't have to have anywhere in your home for this thing to run anything like that.

So it takes a lot of the barrier to entry and concern out of the picture. Now, having said that, of course, obviously, if you have the ability to run everything right here on your own hardware and your own server, where you have total full physical control of it, that's great.

That's great. But if you don't, or like you said, if you're about to be maybe you're mobile, maybe you don't live in one place, maybe you're getting ready to move, fine, spin up a VPS, you know, it could be done.

It could be done without having to give over any of your data. You can do it privately, spin one up, throw all your stuff in there and go where you want to go. You know, it opens up the availability to a lot more people I feel like and it's a very, very easy option to get started.

So it's kind of why, you know, I'm trying to use it as I said this before, like a gateway drug type of thing, you know what I mean? Like this is how you get in the door. Now once you're in, you know, then you can start looking around a little more.

So if I was to smoke some of this and use it as my gateway drug, talk me through it. So at the moment I run four or five Raspberry Pi's running those, doing different things, half of them work one day, half of them don't work the other day.

I love them. I'm doing my best, but it's fucking terrible. I love it. I am moving, I am going mobile and I do like the idea. So if I say, right, you've convinced me, I want to do this, I want to use a VPS, these would be my first concerns, I'd say, right, how do I pay them so that I can pay them from

post-mix in Bitcoin, is there a service that I can pay in Bitcoin so they don't have my banking details? That would be my first question. Yeah, absolutely, several. You can name cheap, accept Bitcoin now, they also accept less than truthful information

about like domain registration, things like that, or you can even step more into something like a bit launch, bitlatch.io is a service you can sign up using just an email address and you put in your email address, create an account, boom, find your account with Bitcoin and spin up servers.

So there are several options, yeah. Any preference on that? I've used name cheap because I'm pretty sure that Bitcoin Q&A has shares in them because it was really, really pushing that, it's like, fuck you, better.

Yeah. Yeah. Really no means, yeah, I've used that and it works and I didn't have any problems. Is there any preference between, if I said I want to run one of these, would you say name cheap or bit launch, is there any difference, will I get a better service from one or?

Personally, I like name cheap myself, it seems to be a little cheaper and you get a little bit better control over your server, especially dealing with like reverse DNS and things of that nature with a service like bitlatch, for example.

You can choose from multiple different VPS service providers, like you've got Volter, you've got Digital Ocean, you've got different providers, but you don't have quite the amount of control over the server.

For example, they generally automatically block the outgoing mail server, your mail port. So you can't just send emails out, which, you know, if you think about it, of course, they're trying to stop people from spamming or whatever, I get it, but you don't have to deal with that on name cheap.

With bitlatch, it's not that big of a deal, you just email support and they'll open it up for you. It's not the biggest deal in the world, but still, you get a little bit more control, I would say with name cheap and it's probably a little cheaper.

But either way, it's just so easy with any service you want to choose. So I go with that, I go with name cheap, I pay them from PostMix, what's that going to cost me for a server? Is it going to be massively expensive or is it fairly reasonable?

No, yeah, it's definitely within reason. One of the brand new .001, poor PostMix UTXOs, that right there by itself will probably get you a year's worth of a VPS, and so it's definitely within reach from anybody.

It all depends on what size of the server you want, but that's kind of the thing, it's kind of what I wanted to write about this stuff about, is to show people that, I mean, yeah, you can go big time with all this stuff, but you really don't have to.

You don't necessarily need to do all that, and you could even do something like spin up a really, really cheap VPS option, and then use tunnels from your own hardware to it. Like, there's so many different ways to do it, but the very easiest thing in the world,

in my opinion, for people to do, is just to log in and name cheap by yourself a domain and a VPS with a little bit of Bitcoin, and you're off and running. Yeah, okay, so I do that, 100,000 SATs would buy me a year, or they're about, and so what is that, like 60 quid or $60, or it's around that sort of figure anyway, isn't it?

And so I get that, and then what would I be running on there? Would I be running things like, I'd have my bit watered on there, or like, I'd get it, and then I'd go right now, what goes on here, what do I do with this thing?

What are we running? So whenever you choose your VPS, you'll actually have the choice to install what operating system you want to put on it, and what they're doing is basically just carving you out your own little personal private area of this server, and it's yours, and you can do what you want

to with it, you can install whatever operating system you want to on it, you can do whatever you want, and you use SSH to do that, you know, same way as you like when you're dealing with Raspberry Pi, you just SSH in, it's the same thing.

So to go with Unohost, what you would need to do is install a DBN10 operating system. So once you choose that DBN10 option, you get everything spun up, you're ready to go. It's a very, very simple installation script from Unohost, it's a single, really a single command that you put in, it will actually install Unohost on your VPS.

So if somebody were to ask you, what are you running, I'm running Unohost, I'm not running DBN, I'm not running Ubuntu, I'm running Unohost. Okay, so it takes over your VPS, and now once that's up and running, that's when you can start getting into what applications you want to run, like you can choose your Bitward,

your next cloud, or whatever you want to do. So it's almost like an App Store kind of thing, but you just install it on your own private server. So it's kind of, it sounds to me almost like when I ran my first node, and I had my my node, and it said, "Oh, you can run Whirlpool on here, you can have this," and it's like

you're saying like an App Store, right? So I'd have the same thing, because effectively it is like a more powerful Raspberry Pi that someone else is running for me and I'm paying them. And so I would then, from anywhere that I am remotely, for any services I need, I'd

SSH in, and I'd have like a little window pop up, and within that window I'm viewing whatever I have running on that computer that someone else is running for me. That's basically it. Yes, but it's actually even easier than that.

They actually provide a really good web application GUI. So once you, when you first SSH in and run that first installation script, as soon as that installation script is done, you can be done with command line if you want.

You don't have to worry about it anymore. You can just type in your unihost, visit your domain, essentially, that you bought. And it will pop your unihost administrator's guide, and you can do pretty much everything you want to do from right there, and it's very, very simple and easy to use.

Like you said, if you say you're running Bitwarden, you just go there. It's a one-click install. When you install Bitwarden, you'll receive an email from that, which will give you like your administration tokens and stuff like that, where you can log into the server itself,

because you're actually going to be running your own Bitwarden server, not just the app. So once you do that, you log in, and then anywhere you go, if for whatever reason you had a problem, you needed to restart your server, anything that you needed to do, yes,

you can just log into it, give it a restart, restart one of your systems, install or uninstall an application, anything you wanted to do, it's so simple. That's very cool. It makes a lot of sense as well.

I think, you know, the idea of running your own hardware and doing all that kind of stuff is really cool if you're in one location and you can look after it, but my experience with Raspberry Pi's and stuff, and it might be that I have magnet hands, but they break

and I have to spend half my time fixing them and messing around, whereas I know that someone else who's running a server is going to know infinitely more and it's going to run better than me and have a stable internet connection and all the rest of the stuff, which I would manage to break.

So I guess that there must be some downside in terms of privacy, presumably, or is there some sort of clever way that you can get around this? Well, you know, if you're running on a VPS, of course, you're depending on them to provide the actual VPS service, okay?

So yes, you know, if they wanted to no longer offer you the VPS, then you would no longer have the VPS, but there's really no reason to do that for the vast majority of the things that we're looking at.

The majority of them are not even going to be publicly exposed anyway. Like you're not necessarily given this URL for your Bitwarden out to the world. You're giving it out to yourself and your friends and family.

Even if you were to run like a Matrix server or a Matrix chat, all those things, yes, you depend on them to provide it for you. There's not so much of a privacy concern necessarily as it is just, you know, you have to depend on them to provide the service for you.

So if you were to get on there and I don't know, make a website and post highly controversial things, then yeah, sure, you know, they could take you down. They could just wipe your VPS off and that would be the end of it.

But for the trade-offs that most people are looking for or need, it's something that makes it easy enough that depending on them for just the actual infrastructure service itself, that's enough of a trade-off to make.

It's not as if you're letting them in on everything with you. They have carved out your own little space, so you have your own little world in there. It's just you have your own room in the house, but you depend on them to have the house essentially.

Can they look through the keyhole to see what is running on there or do you want to say and look, is it viewable or is there some sort of encryption or something clever, which means that they run it, but they don't know what's running?

Right. And that's basically what it is. I mean, it's running and it's a virtual private server, so that's kind of the whole point is that they carve you out your little spot and that's what you get to do what you get to do with it.

And your access to it is determined you can do it in one of a couple ways you could use SSH keys or you can use a password to get in. And so without those things, without those having their SSH key as your password, they know they're not going to have access to what's running on your server.

It's yours. It's your private server. But if you use password as your password or whatever, then yeah, but that's kind of the point. We're getting away from that with Bitwarden, right? Yeah.

Well, to me then, that seems like a decent trade off. I just, you know, I have discussed it with Bitcoin Q&A and bits and pieces, but I've been a busy and I was always thinking in the back of my head, oh, I'm going to be all proud and post this on Twitter and go, oh, I'm running a virtual private server.

You know, aren't I great? And then someone will go, you fucking idiot. You're not really running it. You're using someone else's computer and get all that. So I was just like, and you probably will.

You probably will. But that's the thing, you know, you're always going to have those will actually, you're always going to have those guys. All right. And the thing is like, we can't, you can't forever let the, the worry of what, what somebody else is going to say, determine what you do.

And when you know what your personal trade offs are and you understand, okay, this is what I need out of this service yet, okay, yeah, maybe it's not a hundred percent perfect, but it will get the job done for me as opposed to, well, I'm just not even going to start

it all because, you know, I mean, that they've already got so much data on me. It probably doesn't even matter anyway. Or, you know, well, I don't have anywhere that I can run a hundred percent, my own hardware.

I'm not my own ISP. You know, I can't become my own internet service provider. I don't want to go through all that mess. That's exactly the sort of thing that stops people from actually taking these steps.

And so that's, it really is why I've kind of focused on this point of it is to try to get everybody to understand like it's okay to use a VPS to do some of this stuff. You know what I mean?

Like, you don't have to feel ashamed that you're not running everything on your own hardware and you're not a hundred percent completely self-sovereign. Yes, you're, you're using somebody else's virtual private server, but your data is no longer being stored on Google servers.

Now, which trade offer are you going to take? You know? And so that's, yes, you're going to get those guys, but whatever. Whatever. Yeah, you're right. They're always going to like that. But yeah, that makes, it makes sense.

And you know, all these steps just get you closer. Nothing's perfect. I think that's the big takeaway. And it's, it's very difficult. I, I often get like decision paralysis almost, it's like, it's like, oh, there's all these options.

And, you know, I could do this, but it's not as good as this. And then, and then you end up doing nothing. Nothing. Exactly. Which is the worst thing you can do. That is exactly right. You know, doing this, doing this VPS would be, it seems a big step up.

Yeah. And it's definitely something I, I want to look at. And yeah, I mean, the barrier to entry is reasonably low. Sure. It's not like, it's not like, you know, someone's going to say, oh, you've got to go and buy 30,000 pounds worth of hardware and do this and do that.

You know, it's like, well, it's a hundred thousand satts. Yeah. You don't want to lose that, but try it. Just get started. Yeah. And that's the thing. You know, all this stuff, we, we, we use the turd all the time, you know, of being rabbit holes is always, it's always a rabbit hole that you're going to fall down.

Well, there's really no difference here. And you know, that's a good thing. It's a good thing to, to fall down some rabbit holes and learn new things. But there's also unnecessary rabbit holes.

And there's also, you know, just flat out wasting time and nothing productive is getting done. So, you know, and you quite often some of the most technical people are the ones that end up in those particular rabbit holes, you know, just something is so cool sounding or I wonder

if I can do, you know, X, Y and Z that nothing really productive got done as opposed to just some dude, you know, taking a post mix UTXO and buying a domain into VPS and all of a sudden his files are not being stored by Google or Microsoft anymore, you know, it's, it's a no brainer.

And once you get started, then all of a sudden this whole other world opens up and you start getting to that point where you want to take more sovereignty over it. So okay, I spent up a VPS this time.

Next time I'm going to run that on my own, on my own hardware. So every step matters. What really matters the most is that you're taking a step. Yeah. And forward, hopefully. Hopefully forward.

Hopefully. Yeah. But you know, the backwards ones, they have lessons in there too. Oh, yeah. I've had many of them. It's normally a one step forward, two step back, but yeah, at least at least you're going, at least you're trying.

That's right. What made you go down this route, like you don't have to give me the how you got into the Bitcoin story, I'm sure it's been on other pods and people know it, but what made you so interested specifically in this in this realm in like privacy, security, it sounds like you don't particularly like Google, I share that feeling.

Why this? Why specifically? Why isn't it like, Oh, I found Bitcoin. I know it's going to be really valuable. So I'm going to talk about the finance side all the time. Why this? What has shaped your view of the world like this?

Right. Well, it all comes down to control, doesn't it? I mean, the whole point of all this stuff is power and control. And for me, I think we are best as a species, as a society, as a world when people are able to make the best decision for themselves and those closest to them.

And they don't have those decisions made for them. What we've run into now is a situation where we have generally as a society, we've offloaded so much of our own control and power for the sake of a bit of convenience that we're at it.

We're very nearing a tipping point here and we're seeing it play out more and more day by day where these big tech companies are able to put their thumb on the social skills more and more and now they get to determine what you see, what you are allowed to talk about.

And that begins to shape what you're allowed to think about, because if you're not allowed to talk about it, then you're not going to sit around and think about it a whole lot. So what we talk about in our narratives, that drives what we also think about a lot of the times.

So it gets into the entire aspect of controlling those around you, controlling the way the world is going. And it's almost as if there's a constant pull to the left, which, okay, that's fine.

But now we're nearing an authoritarian point and it happens incrementally and nobody sees it and nobody realizes it until it's too late. And there are only a very few things in this world that allow people to step outside of that, almost all of them require that you're able to maintain a level of privacy in order to achieve it.

So privacy in the end is like a hinge pin, it holds all this stuff together. Because without being able to decide what you reveal about yourself, when you want to reveal it without having a level of privacy, everything else comes into question.

So to me, it's like privacy is the foundation for all this stuff. And if we can't build on a proper foundation, then the house is shit anyway. It's so true. You can't, you know, talk about there about how speech is forming the way and the way that we're thinking.

And it's something I'm seeing more and more in England. We are supposedly a really free and liberal country, but it's quite worrying what can and can't be discussed, what isn't, isn't acceptable.

I've noticed that over the last few years, keeping my mouth shut, I mean, I don't on this podcast, but I speak very, very freely on this podcast, but in normal society around normal people, I just shut the fuck up now, because the more you give away, the more power people have over you.

And that's what you're saying is that you should selectively reveal things to people. You shouldn't have everything logged and everything monitored and people knowing your preference on down to the finest detail, because it's very easy to manipulate you then.

Very. It's really concerning because not many people seem to see it coming. They just blindly following and I don't know, I mean, I don't think that they will wake up until it's too late, but being in a position where you can be the Uncle Jim or being in

a position where you can at least look after yourself is incredibly important, because the way we're marching is pretty fucking scary from where I'm sensing. It really is. And, you know, I was trying to make this point to other day, people like us in general, are

at a bit of a disadvantage from the very beginning, just because of our like, our core ethos, our core beliefs, okay, the way we come at all this stuff is I don't care what you do. Just let me do what I want to do.

Leave me alone. Okay, we don't seek power. That's not what we do. We just want to control our own lives. We don't want to control your life. Now, the other side of that though is a large, large swath of people that absolutely do want to control your life.

They do want power and they actively seek it. And so, because they're on a constant aggression then, it's a constant, constant, aggressive ethos that they have. Hours, on the other hand, is one of almost like a constant compromise.

We're constantly compromising. Well, that's okay. I mean, you could do whatever you want. Just don't bother me. And then they'll take the next hill and then they take the next hill and the next hill.

And because we're so focused on being sovereign individuals and taking care of our, you know, just ourself and our own, our like red lines, as it were, you know, the things that shall not be crossed generally are just surround our house like that.

We have a red line around our house and that's it. Well, what that results in is the rest of the world being taken over by these other people. And so we're in a constant state of goal line defense and, you know, like we're on the one yard line always because this is the only thing that we really, really want power over is our own lives.

And so, you know, that's the whole point of these tools and learning how to use these tools is if you don't know how to use these tools that are already out here around you every day, you cannot possibly put up the defense that you need to put up.

If you're going to have this sort of, you know, ethos about things is that you do what you do. But, you know, I want control over my own life that you have to be able to defend that. That's a defensive.

That's a defensive ethos. You know what I mean? We're not aggressive. We're not aggressive on people. We just don't want to be addressed against, but they're going to. They continue to. And so there has to be a point where you're not just willing but able to stop their advance.

You have to be able to do it too. It's not enough to just say to just, you know, have this idea that, yes, I want to stand up to these people. That's all good and fine. But you have to be able to do it.

And that means you've got to learn how to use these tools. It's almost like there's a phrase there that could be used use the tools. You can have that one. I will send over an invoice later since you said it.

What are you charging these days? We'll discuss that. Yeah. We'll work stuff it out. You've got a bit of a platform here. Yeah. But, you know, talking about that, though, I want to make sure because I want to get this in.

I just came back from this bare arms of Bitcoin conference. And man, you want to talk about reinvigorating. I want to go so fucking bad. Wow. It looks awesome. Tell me. Make me feel jealous.

I tell it. So this is the conference to attend for any sovereign minded people, the people that want to take power over their own lives. The guns in Bitcoin crew puts it on ragnarly on Twitter, ragnar, and his crew.

He gave us speech last year. I went last year. I was invited. First of all, you know, obviously you're going to put me on the ticket. Yeah, I guess a no brainer. So Ragnar's not a dumb guy.

But I went last year and he gave a speech that really, really, really stuck with me. And his whole mantra there was necessary, but not sufficient. And what that meant was is, you know, like Bitcoin in this fight for freedom and sovereignty.

Bitcoin is necessary, but it's not sufficient. There has to be more. There's more tools that have to be used. One of those being the right to be able to physically protect yourself. And you know, using 3D print technology now, we're able to make, you know, weapons that

are perfectly capable of defending yourself, your home, those you love. And you're able to do that without having to ask permission from the government to do it, which is the whole point, this whole permissionless thing.

So it's a super important conference. Not only is it fun, it's very important. And it's going to be the go to destination for people that think in this way in the future. So yeah, get your tickets now before he raises the price ridiculous.

But what it is, man, this year was so great because it grew exponentially from last year, Samurai wallet with sponsors, one of the sponsors. And so you got to meet all the samurai crew, got to meet them, talk, go over all the stuff.

The Ronin guys debuted a guns in Bitcoin edition, a full node, that's so not the black and gold ones. So epic. It is epic. And they sold out completely while they were their surprise, surprise sold those out, started to take a pre-orders.

I mean, they killed those guys, they're doing excellent work. The start nine guys were there with their embassy product, which is one of the things that I'm not 100% sold on having Bitcoin and all my stuff on the same computer.

But having said that, I do like the direction they're going at with it being able to provide all this self-hosting stuff. And basically a single click plug and play, that's the type of, that's how easy it needs to be.

Yeah. The 3D gun guys. Okay. So you've got like Ivan, Ivan the troll, I don't know if you follow him on Twitter, he's a must follow. Well, actually they just banned him. Wow. I'm just thinking about that now.

They just banned him on Twitter. Yeah. But anyway, the deterrence dispenser guys, they were there. Cody Wilson made a, I guess halfway surprise visit and gave a speech, which I'm sure, you know, all this stuff is going to be recorded this year.

So that's a good thing. All of our talks and everything is, you know, that's all presented out. But it's basically just a conference that talks about all the things that we need. It's not just Bitcoin, you know, because Bitcoin is a very, very powerful tool.

And it's, it's, in my opinion, a necessary tool. We have to understand how to use it and how to use it properly. But there's so much more, you know, Bitcoin alone, you cannot, you know, somebody breaks into your home or comes to take you, you know, Bitcoin doesn't fix this.

You can't throw a satoshi out here. It's not going to work out. All right. It's so, you know, and, and not only that, but you know, when we start talking about, like, you know, like I'm saying, these file shareings and, and storms and things, you know, Google, I really hate these guys.

I really hate you. But they, you know, like they, they scan hashes of the images that you upload for, you know, and they check it against known hashes of, you know, like child pornography right now, which, you know, of course, who's going to argue against that?

But how long until they change that? And, and, you know, and now they're looking for images of 3D printed guns or they're looking for, you know, Bitcoin logos, whatever, they can do whatever they want.

So all this stuff is necessary. And it's all discussed at this conference, at this conference. There's time to just chill and talk with people. It's so good. It looks incredible. The normal conference stuff, you know, most of it just doesn't interest me.

I, you know, it is a lot of it is bullshit. A lot of it is just, yeah, it just doesn't interest me. But that one, particularly, I can't leave my country right now, which is fucking mental to say I'm not allowed to leave my country and if I try and do it, I can face imprisonment and 10,000 pound fine if I try and get out.

And so. Unbelievable. Right now, I can't. I had to miss it, unfortunately, but it's definitely one I hopefully get to go to in the future. Yeah. And the whole 3D printing gun thing, most Brits are very, very anti gun ice since getting into Bitcoin have become much more the other way, but, you know, we, we have zero gun rights over here.

Right. We can have a shot. We can have a shotgun, but you have to have a license and all that sort of stuff. So the 3D printing stuff is really, really promising in, in my eyes, horrifying in most people's Britain's eyes.

But for me, I think, wow, this is actually, you know, you're talking about Bitcoin is like the foundation. And yes, it's a tool that's really useful, but you need the other tools. But Bitcoin allows for the freedom to trade.

And it's this, like, trust, it's like this base for trust and freedom to speak financially. And with that, you can then build on top. So the 3D printing stuff is really cool. I was just speaking to Rick from crypto cloaks yesterday and love what those guys are doing.

I love all the gun printing. All of this seems to me like this is going to really take off. And it's exciting because, you know, I quite often get quite negative on this podcast because I do look around and just go, oh, my God, we're so far, you know, you're talking about people who push and push and want more and more power.

And then you've got us who are just going, just leave me alone. Right. I've always hated authority, it's caused me a lot of problems in my life. That Bitcoin became a very comfortable and quick fit for me because it was fuck you money.

Yeah, but we've got to the stage now where I am thinking, well, what more rights can they take from me because they're now talking, they're now trying to center my speech, my movement. And they're also trying to take the sovereignty over my own body and telling me you cannot

move, you cannot live, you cannot work, unless you have this fucking vaccine pumped into you that you don't want, and then we know it's going there. And you've got to wear this stupid bit of cloth over your face that is fuck all.

And they're basically coming to your door. It's not like you can just, you know, I used to before Bitcoin say, do you know what, once I've made enough money, I'm just dropping out of society, I'm going to go and fucking build a cabin in the woods and just fuck everyone, I can't be bothered.

But now I'm actually thinking, well, I think we might actually win this fight, like we've got the tools now and if we, I'm not going to say it, I'm not going to say the phrase because I can't afford the fine.

I can't afford the fine, but yeah, if we, if we use the things that are available to us, we could win. I think we could. I'll allow it. And yes, you're, you're, you're a hundred percent correct this, what this conference is all about, honestly, and it sounds cheesy or whatever you want to call it, but it's hope.

It really is hope like it. It's one of those things where like you said, it's so easy to become just despondent and you look at all this, the everything that's going around five years ago, you couldn't have written reality as it is now, you couldn't have written it and had it made as a movie because it would have been too unbelievable.

Nobody would buy that as no way. We know that can never happen. It's, it's happening. And you know, the thing is, it's a full on culture war. I mean, it really is a full on culture war. And there is no fence sitting in a culture war.

They're not going to leave you alone. That's not how culture wars work. You're either with us or you're with them. And this is one of the things that kind of brings me into talking about samurai wallet because, you know, they catch a lot of shit for, you know, being big red meanies and aggressive and meanies, all this stuff.

Okay. Here's the thing, we're, we're in a fight. Okay. We're in a fight and the fight has to be fought by fighters. These guys are fighters. Okay. And, and they have red lines and they have beliefs and ethos that they will not cross.

The community members would not tolerate them crossing, which is one of the things that really separates that the samurai community, in my opinion, from a lot of the other communities. And I'll just throw it out there.

Just for example, you know, let samurai wallet come out tomorrow or whenever with something, you know, and they're, they've changed their license and their, their code is no longer open source and I can't fork it and run it however I want to.

Let them try to do that and watch how the community reacts. The samurai community, the people that are in the so-called quote unquote samurai cult or whatever you want to call it. Oh, that'll abuse them.

It's not going to work. It's not going to work. And it's because that community is not built around samurai wallet. It's not built around, you know, worshipping of these devs or anything like that.

It's because all the people in that community have a similar ethos and a similar belief. And it just so happens that they have the coalesce towards the best tool for their job, which happens to be a samurai wallet.

And so, you know, I, I got the chance to go to hang out with samurai at their, you know, NSA facility down down in, uh, in Texas there. I went, I actually, I got a badge. I went into the NSA group, you know, to the place where they're, you know, running their

secret servers and getting ready to docs everybody and we sat down and we had a chat and this is they are exactly what you expect that they would be. They're just guys like us, like anyone else that sees the way this stuff is going and they're not going to stand for it and they've made their decision and they've made, they've

drawn their red lines and this is it and now the fight is on. And I don't need any more compromising people in my life. I don't need a wallet that's going to accept just a little bit of KYC is not that much, but it's just a little bit.

I don't, you know, all, all that's out now. We're past all that. We're to a point where it's time to make your decision and it's time to stand up and do what you know needs to be done. So that means you have to make that decision mentally and it means you have to be able to understand what tools you need to use and how to use them.

And so that's why, you know, I focus so much of my time on trying to get information just about the tools out there. If I just make people aware of what the tools are, they'll figure it out if they need to.

Bitcoin Q&A does the same thing. You know, everybody is, we're all putting all this stuff out there in the hopes that other people will take it and run with it. You know, we're not, I speak for myself.

I'm not trying to be like to gain some massive clout and be some super influencer or anything. I just want everybody to have the ability to stand up if they so choose because it's time to choose.

Yeah, I agree and, you know, all of us samurai shills and I was literally called one yesterday. I was called a samurai shillow and one of the groups and someone was like, oh, you're a fucking samurai shillow.

You're going to shill samurai here. I was like, well, if it's relevant, if it's relevant and someone asked me what tool I think is best, I'll say samurai. Oh, well, fucking, samurai shills and sick of it.

It's like, Jesus, I don't give a shit. But anyone uses I will use what I think is good and that samurai and I've had samurai on the show. I've spoken to teadev in the background. I was, you know, I'm very friendly with them.

They're very, very nice to me. But even if they treated me like a cunt, I would still use that. I would still use their service because it's good. So it doesn't really matter and all of this stuff just pisses me off.

I just think like all of this stuff is so hard. It's so much time that you have to put in to understand it and use it. The arguing over what someone else uses doesn't matter. If someone, like I don't care what someone else uses, I really fucking don't.

I just want to use what's best and to some degree, I have to trust some people. I have to trust, you know, when they tell me certain parts of, you know, this is going to be safer to use this than this or this is going to be more secure than this or, you know, use a cold card rather than using a ledger.

I can understand to a level, but even if the source code is viewable, it means nothing to me. I might as well be reading Chinese, I don't fucking know. So I have to use some trust and I think most people who say that they don't are just talking shit.

They must be. This whole thing is, you know, people often mistakenly use the word trustless. You know, this is a trustless, it's the vast majority is trust minimized. That's the whole point.

You're minimizing your trust. You know, this is another one of the great things about this, this conference was the ability to, like you said, you have to put some trust in these people. I want to talk to those people if I can, right?

And I want to meet these people. I want to see, you know, I want to know, you know, are they, are we on the same page or not? So this is one of those things where this conference opens up that ability for you to meet some of the people that you've been talking with on Twitter and telegram and, you know,

even if you're, even if you have a problem with them, you know what I mean? Like, this is your opportunity to get it cleared up. You know what I mean? We're not, we're not sitting behind screens anymore.

We're right here face to face. This is where conversations happen. This is where thing, you know, you can talk things out, figure out what's going on. All that stuff can happen in real life, which is why conferences like this are so important.

I'm so glad that Ragnar's doing this. But some of the, uh, the fuck samurai guys, you know, the scam ride guys, they, they were at the conference. You know, they were there. How many of them went up to the samurai table and had a conversation?

None. None. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's easy behind a keyboard. It's very easy behind a keyboard. Sure. So the thing is, you know, like I said, you said, even if they treated, you know, treated you horribly, you would still use their thing because unless they did something that you didn't agree with or you don't, you know what I mean?

Like there's, there are certain lines that we all have. This community is not going to defend those developers. If they make poor choices with their wallet, for example, you know, if they, if they are allowing address reuse in their mixes, well, I'm not going to defend that.

I can't defend that. So that's the difference in this community and being able to talk with them at this conference, learn about 3D guns, listen to people speak, shake hands with some of the people that we've talked to on Twitter and telegram.

It is well worth the time and the money that you would have to spend as soon as you guys overthrow the government over there and working on it, there's only about three of us, but we are working on it.

We'll see you then. All this stuff is important, man. And it feels so good to be able to talk to other people, you know, and just get, get, get your batteries recharged. You know, it's, it really, it means a lot.

Yeah, it's, it's something I look forward to and look, I don't want to take all day with you and take your time, but I've really enjoyed the conversation. I just wanted one, one more question on the gun stuff.

It's not even Bitcoin related, but it just fascinates me. The 3D printing that goes on, that the one question I have is ammunition. You know, you guys are in America, like guns are fucking easy to get hold of, I'm sure.

Yeah. Here, we basically, we have like farmers who have shotguns, have a few people have rifles, and then if you want to get something else, you face serious prison time. It's really fucking serious.

So with the 3D printing of guns, is there anything they're doing in terms of ammunition, or is that something you still have to source elsewhere? No. Yeah, these guys are serious about making sure that everyone has this ability.

If it only works in America, it's useless. That's kind of the way they're looking at it. So the FGC-9, they're like flagship thing, you know, it was developed in Europe. You know, JSTARC is, he's there, he's, you know, that's where he's developing this at.

And they have a section that they've titled, "But what about ammo?" Appropriately. Okay. And it goes over ways that, you know, people in situations such as yours can create their own ammunition.

You know, it all comes down, same thing as anything with permission, you know. The whole thing is to make sure that people don't have to ask permission to be able to do these things. So, you know, you're 100% right, you have absolutely valid concerns.

It's not going to be easy necessarily when you're trying to do these things. And that's the whole point. They try to make it just hard enough where nobody does it. So luckily there's people out there that are trying to make it as easy as possible.

So yeah, the deterrence dispensed is the 3D printed gun group. You can find them on RocketChat, you can find them on, I think, the library or Odyssey, one of those. But if you search for deterrence dispensed, I'm sure, you know, you'll be able to find it.

And yes, they are addressing ammunition and they're basically trying to look at this from almost like from a Eurocentric point of view, because it has to work there. If it doesn't, then there's no point in it being anywhere.

Yeah. Well, there's something I will look into. It's very interesting. It's something that I've, like I said, I've completely won 80 Don, I was never against guns, but I went with the whole British narrative of just like, oh, guns are bad.

And if you have guns and people get shot and I just, I didn't give it enough thought to think, well, if you want a gun bad enough, you can get it. It's not fucking that hard. And then all it means is just all the bad people have the guns.

Exactly. And so like how much, how much logical sensors that make and the answer is zero and it's no fucking sense. The argument of saying, well, why can't I in my home, if I'm lying there next to my wife and you've got kids in the house and someone wants to come and do you physical

harm in your home and you know, the police are doing fuck all because they are definitely doing fuck all nothing. If someone comes in, just logically have the right to warn them. And if they don't leave, kill them.

I don't see how there is any argument against that because your family is, you know, that's why we're here. We're here to look after a family, we're here to let's all that really matters when it's all said and done is work so that we can have the money to be with our family and look after and support our family and the people we love.

So some fucker wants to come into your house and harm them, absolutely you should be able to defend it. And yeah, that's encouraging to hear that because the laws will never change here. They will just get more and more strict.

I mean, you can get arrested, you carry a knife more than 1.5 inches or something, you know, you can get arrested for that. And I think for a firearm is like 20 years or something like that.

I'm sure it's ridiculous. Yeah. I'm going to slide further and further that way, whereas the police, they're all carrying weapons on them more and more. You walk into London and they're all got automatic weapons.

Exactly. And that's what, you know, it's going that way in America too, especially with this administration change. You know, the whole point to them is to make sure that they have weapons that you're not allowed to have.

That way, you know, that's the part that oftentimes people don't want to tread into because you don't want to start sounding like a crazy conspiracy theorist, you know, but it's valid still.

Yeah. Can you imagine if a government treated their citizens badly? Can you imagine if they turned on them? I mean, that's never fucking happened. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, we're speaking in complete hypothetical here, but you know, but seriously though, 2020

happened and 2021 is happening now and it's right in front of your face and it's here and it shows and, you know, the first step for any despotic government that wants to, you know, rule in an authoritarian fashion is to disarm their populace at step one.

And so, you know, it's a valid point. It's a valid argument and people, you know, we'll come back with all you think you're going to take your little 3D printed gun to get some drones and some tanks and stuff.

Oh, you, you don't have a chance, you know, well, Afghanistan happened, you know, Vietnam happens, you know, these things happen. It's not just as easy as you think and it's not just as easy for the U.S. government to start drone striking its own citizens.

It doesn't work like that. So all this stuff, you know, again, it's all valid. It's all worthy of thought. Even if you're completely an anti gun side, you know, it's still the whole point of all this stuff is to be able to have the discussion and we're reaching a point where the discussion

itself is enough to get you, you know, canceled and wiped off, wiped off the internet. So that's what tools like, you know, Bitcoin, self hosting your own stuff. And then if things go as bad as they possibly can, guns to defend or protect your rights.

That's when they come into play. So it all matters. Absolutely. Well, I look forward to getting banned with you while we continue to speak freely and say, fuck you to the people who are going to try and enslave us, fuck you.

And I look forward to hopefully at some point shooting some guns with you, going for some drinks, talking to some Bitcoin in person. And yeah, absolutely. Just massive respect. Massive respect for what you're doing.

Thanks for having me on. It's been a been a really good time, Bitcoin Q and A. I'll, I'll allow him in my matrix chat for one more day because I know you guys are friends. So we are. We're good friends.

But yeah, it would be great to, it would be great to catch up in real life and any sort of shilling that you can do, point people to your website so people can read up on this stuff. Sure.

If you look it up at diverter underscore no KYC on Twitter, if you will hashtag check bio, you'll see a lot of links there, it'll be a link to my matrix chat, a link to my blog where you can read some of these articles that we were talking about.

And yeah, just hit me up. And if you, if you've got a question about anything, I'm on Twitter, I'm on telegram. I'm on matrix. I'm around. So feel free. Awesome. Well, thanks for coming on the show, everything you do.

And yeah, it's been a real pleasure. Oh, I appreciate it. Cheers, mate.