Grow a pear and ask why with @shishi21m

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.

Now what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.

Alright, you ungovernable misfits. I'm your host, Max. Everybody knows the Bitcoin is useless, worthless, and doomed to fail. But what if everyone's wrong? What if it's the system that is doomed to fail?

Join me as I speak to some of the brightest people in the space and deliver to the deepest, darkest depths of the Bitcoin rabbit hole. Welcome back to Bit by Bit. Today's episode, I spoke to Shishi.

I really enjoyed chatting to him. I was all over the place. And we covered so many different topics that I really didn't think that we would. Fascinating guy. And I'm so glad that I got to speak to him in our last spaces.

The next spaces that we're gonna do is gonna be on the 21st. At 2100 UK time. So anyone who's enjoyed this pod. And Fancy's diving in. Shishi will hopefully be there as well. Along with Ben Gunn and a few of the others.

So yeah, it's really cool. I'm enjoying seeing this play out and seeing people work together and help each other become more sovereign. Before we dive into the show, I wanna say thank you to my sponsors.

First off, we have Foundation Devices. Foundation Devices are my hardware wallet of choice. They make the incredible passport. And as I'm sure you've seen in the photos, firstly, it's fucking beautiful.

It's really, really sturdy. It's got that old school Nokia vibes, which I also like for upset reasons. And it's just really, really simple to use. It's fully open source. Any idiot can use it, including myself.

And you will not be disappointed once you get one of these in your hands. Go to foundation devices.com. And if you use the code bit by bit, you will get $10 off your purchase. Next up, we have Casa.

Casa is making multi-six security incredibly easy. I've been using them for over a year myself. And I have to say, I'm very, very happy so far. There are more private options out there. But if you follow the tips that I've gone through with both Jameson and with Nick, you can actually have a listen and be very, very private,

as well as having incredible security. I really love what the Casa team are doing. And I'm very proud to be working with them. Go to keys.casa to start improving your security setup today.

Next up, we have fast Bitcoins. If you are in the UK and you're looking to stack sets, you can use fast Bitcoins at 20,000 different retailers. And they're making it incredibly easy. I love to see how dynamic this team is.

And I'm really excited to be speaking to Danny Brewster again. I'll have him on the show in a couple of days, which means that he'll be going live in about a week or two. And we'll hear more about his vision for the company and how he's looking to onboard more Bitcoiners.

I really hope you enjoy the show. And if you have any questions, please do reach out. Shishi, how you doing? Max, how's it going? Nice to speak to you and nice to have you on the show. From our last conversation on the spaces, I was just intrigued to hear more about what it is you're doing.

And I was pretty shocked and taken aback by the spaces because there were so many people with so much information, so much knowledge that I hadn't spoken to really before. I didn't know what they were doing.

And it's almost like it's untapped resource of just unbelievable knowledge. So I'm very happy that you dived in and were schooling us on everything that you were going through. It was really interesting.

Yeah, I was surprised to see the spaces like that too, because it's usually dog shit, right? You jump into a space that people are doing about Bitcoin. And it's like, sometimes it's fun, but, you know, sometimes it's repetitive.

So I was really happy to see that the conversation was evolving into the next topic and the next topic so organically. And it was a lot of fun. I was supposed to go on a whole hike and bike ride, and I just didn't.

So, well, I'm sorry we stopped that. But yeah, I agree. It was special. I've done the same. Like you say, you jump into these spaces, and then very quickly, I jump out. I've never hosted one before.

I was speaking to Sol X and Chino, and I said, you know, it'd be really cool because we had our telegram group, and I just can't keep up with all the writing and all that. I'm just terrible at it.

So I was like, why don't we just run a spaces and just see how it goes? And just, you know, I'm sure some interesting people would join. And I was taking a back at just how many people had something to say and all the projects that people were doing.

And it was really, really enjoyable. I got so pissed during it because I just kept getting for another beer, and then me and Sol X afterwards were chatting for a bit as well. But it was a lot of fun, and we'll have another one on the 21st of this month.

So if you're about, it'd be amazing to have your input of again. But just remind me when we get off of here, and I'll put it in my calendar because I definitely don't want to miss it. Awesome. Well, yeah, so the reason I wanted to get you on the show was there was a couple of voices in there that I thought were particularly interesting.

Yours was certainly one of them. I appreciate that. You went into a little bit of detail on what it is that you're doing yourself with your patch of land. So if you would possibly do a bit of an intro on what you're about, what it is that you're doing with your land and then we can take it from there.

Yeah, man. So, yeah, I'm on two and a half acres. I always dreamed of having my own allotment. So to speak, and I made it happen during COVID. I tore my ACL and I was out on crutches for so long, like so obnoxiously long.

And the second I got off of them, I just started looking at land. And one of the main features of what I want to do is I want to create a food forest. So partially fruit trees and other ornamental trees as well and a lot of vegetables.

And I'm not growing any animals on my land because it's quite a small piece of land. So I can grow way more vegetables and fruit than I can animals on two and a half acres. So I will have some animals like chickens and ducks, but it's basically the whole idea is to do it all by hand.

So no machinery, no tractor, no expensive equipment, and just a low time preference. So a lot of people come here and they're saying like, "Oh, if you just had a bobcat, if you just had a tractor, if you just had this, if you just had that."

And I'm like, "Yeah, and if I also just had another $100,000 in debt." And then they're like, "Oh, yeah, I forgot about that part." And it's like, "Yeah, that part puts farmers out of business quite easily."

So I already have debt on the land and the house that I'm in. And it was a very sweet deal, so I'm not stressed at all. It's like way cheaper than anything I could get in a city. And I just jumped into it.

I didn't even know the area really that well that I moved to. It just felt right. So I got this place and I've just been working on it. I'm making all my own compost, so most farmers don't.

They import that too, so that's another 30 to 60 grand for what I need. I mean, that's just usually like a start. Farmers usually buy compost every year. And without animals, that's the question, right?

How do you make enough fertilizer? Concentrated, good fertilizer for all the vegetables and fruits I want to grow. And that's basically the key here of what I'm doing. And that approach is like a multiple layer approach.

But we can talk about that later on, if you like. Yeah, sure. Well, so that's a good summary. And that's interesting, especially for me, the fact that it's on a smaller plot. Like two and a half acres is the kind of thing where I'm like living where I am in England.

Anything much more than that to be near where I would possibly want to be in their family and stuff like that is basically unattainable for most people. Like the land is incredibly expensive.

So it's cool to have someone on who's doing something with that kind of size of land. And that was the goal, right? To inspire people that maybe don't have access to 20, 15 acres, you know?

That maybe only have one or two acres or even a quarter acre. And all my methods, I want them to be applicable to the third world as well. So I've done a lot of third world traveling and that's where I actually wanted to be.

But I feel like America is a great place to make a big change. And like you said, I have a significant other and I didn't want them to move from a city into the middle of nowhere. So I did have to sacrifice on some end just to make sure that I was successful, right?

Yeah, these are the trade-offs that you need to think about. And what I find often with a lot of Bitcoiners or a lot of people that I speak to, it can be so black and white where it's like, oh, yeah, well, you know, just fucking move out in the middle of nowhere, you get it cheaper.

It's like, well, yeah, exactly what you said. How happy is your life going to be if your wife and kids aren't near where they want to be and they're pissed off with you and then you're working yourself to the bone in the middle of nowhere and everyone's bored.

Like that family is probably not going to last so well. And so it's about trade-offs and working out that, you know, two and a half acres are still a decent plot of land, like it's still a large amount of land.

And I guess then it comes down to saying, well, okay, maybe I don't have quite so much land, I just have to be more efficient. And it sounds like the way that you're doing things you're really focusing on efficiency and doing as much as you possibly can yourself, which also is cool because we talked about

and the space is like, and I think Ben was touching on this as well, where he's saying, well, if you're doing your thing by hand, yeah, okay, it's harder, but it's a fucking good workout and you're going to be strong and you're going to be fit and you're going to be healthy.

So if you kind of turn it on its head and look at it as, well, I'm just doing fitness a few hours a day and it's really good fitness and really good strength training, then, well, you don't need to pay for the gym membership.

It's spot on, right? So I mean, Ben Gunn, by the way, I loved the episode with Ben Gunn that you did and that's actually what inspired me to jump in when I saw you guys in the spaces. I'm like, they must be talking about something interesting, must.

And yeah, so I mean, it's definitely spot on. It's actually funny, though, because I actually still go to the gym. And so it's because I'm trying to make the work super easy. So I'm going, I'm working sometimes six to eight hours outside, moving things around,

using my body, and then I'll actually, at night, still drive to the gym and do my squats and do my heavy weightlifting just so I can get above and beyond because I would rather, you know, move things more efficiently by moving more at the same time.

So I'm a nice big dude. I think I can add a lot more pounds to my frame. So I'm actually treating this like I would if I was an athlete, which I was in the past. So I love sports, I love basketball, football, both American and European football.

But yeah, you know, so I just, I'm just grinding. Like I work super hard and I still have time for Bitcoin stuff and and and and. So I don't sleep, I don't sleep at night so much. I sleep well when I sleep asleep probably good eight to 12 hours, but I stay awake for long periods of time.

So a few things I want to unpack there is firstly ACL was that from a sports injury. Was that from American football and that was a previous career or like what was what was that? No, so I was actually I was actually getting my master's degree and which not many people know I have because I don't give a shit about it.

But like I learned so much in it actually. Can you share what it is? Yeah, it's basically a sustainability degree. I was much younger and I wanted to take like two courses with these amazing professors and I was dead broke.

I had just spent all my money traveling for a year for a year straight, living out of my backpack with a tent strapped on, you know, sick and a sleeping bag. So I've set up shop like in the middle of nowhere for sure.

Yeah, I mean, I could be, you know, to touch on for a second before we get into that what you said before about Bitcoiners, you know, being so black and white. Well, I could be in the middle of nowhere, right?

So maybe that's how they feel like, oh, I could be in the middle of nowhere. Sure, but like what about everybody else in your family, right? That's what you're not taking into account. And also, so just fast forward to what you asked us now with ACL.

Yeah, I mean, basically, I was just playing basketball with some law school students and casually just like warming up before I left. And this guy just need to need me for no reason. Like it was really stupid.

And then, yeah, the whole thing popped and I felt it. And they were like, you can like, no, I think I just tore my ACL and they're like, how do you know? And I'm like, I've been around for too long.

I've played for way too long. Like, I know, and so I was so pissed. I just went downstairs to the weight room and I lifted for like two hours. I just, I was so angry, you know, and then I called my buddies and I'm like, we're going out tonight.

And so I was walking around, dancing around, like having a great time. And the next morning I called my buddy and I'm like, I need you to go buy me crutches because I can't get out of bed.

My knee was huge. And yeah, I wasn't insured where I was. I didn't even know that. So I couldn't get any scans or any treatment. And I had to fly to Miami, which is the only place I was insured.

I didn't even realize that I hadn't lived in Miami for a few years. But of course I was paying for insurance, right? So I flew down there and then I was stuck in Miami for like a year. Like literally doing Jack All reading about Bitcoin, really.

And it was really interesting because right when I was able to walk again, there was lockdowns for COVID. So I just started laughing because I was like, all right, like I've locked down now for like seven months or something.

The timing. Yeah, I was just, I was just laughing. But yeah, I mean, not professionally, but I definitely play basketball. I want to arrange like a basketball tournament, a Bitcoin basketball tournament.

Oh, that'd be cool. Maybe in the Bitcoin conference in Miami. So we'll see. Yeah, that'd be really cool. And so you lock down, you've done your knee in, you're sat in Miami reading about Bitcoin.

Yep. How did you get there? Like what was the point where, was it that you started learning about Bitcoin because you were just fucking bored and you were sat at home? And I haven't been to Miami, but I assume there's not a lot to do outside of like cocaine and strippers.

What else? So like if you're there with a bum knee, like you just thinking, well, I need to read something and you came across it. Or were you already into it? So I was already into it, but my Bitcoin story is like actually, it was really a long process for me.

So some people say, oh, but when I heard about Bitcoin, the first time it didn't click, second time didn't click, right? Well, I actually knew about Bitcoin for quite some time, but I didn't know anything about it.

There was no books about it. This was like, you know, 2010. I was really young. Oh, wow. Really, really? I was just a nerd on the internet, a gamer on the internet, right? I would spend hours on the internet.

I heard something about Bitcoin. And there was a few other coins also right away, like a bunch of all coins right away. And I would just keep track of it. So like fast forward, I'm like 18 years old.

I'm in college in Israel. I'm keeping track of the price here and there. I'm watching little videos. All of a sudden there's people on Bloomberg saying Bitcoin's going to hit 50 and 500,000 people calling them crazy.

And me, I'm broke, right? I have no money. Like I'm just trying to like have money for my bills. But there's definitely been a few points where you go back and you're like, yeah, I was thinking about it.

Thinking about just putting a thousand bucks in or whatever. You know, everyone has those stories, but fast forward to 2017 and that boom. And you know, it was like everyone was talking about Ethereum in 2017, right?

So I get in, I put some money and I also like would bet on some sports here and there. So I was using Bitcoin for that already. And I just get in and I start reading about Antonopolis's book on Ethereum.

So I started reading about it. I'm like, oh, this is interesting. And there was no Bitcoin maximalists around me. Okay. And I wasn't on Twitter. So 2017 was like the shit coin era, right?

Things went up. Things went down drastically. And then I started reading about Bitcoin, right? So I was already into it, but I wasn't on Twitter yet. And then a friend of mine, a friend of mine who got me on Twitter, like right before I tore my ACL, that's what really got me.

So I'm on Twitter. I'm reading what certain people are saying. I'm still not, you know, orange pills completely, but definitely reading about it because I was interested in the whole idea of, you know, democratized finance, right?

Like micro finance was a huge interest of mine because I'm deeply interested in why the third world is stuck in such a vicious cycle. And obviously it's because they keep getting debased, right?

Every other regime completely ruins their money. So I just converted everything I had to Bitcoin. That was liquid. And I never looked back. So tearing your ACL has some benefits.

It's an interesting way you've come in because it sounds as though a lot of what you were thinking about, especially in the early years, is trying to make the world a better place.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you sort of saw injustice in the world and you're like, what the fuck is going on? You're doing your sustainability studies, you're traveling the world, you're thinking about the third world.

You're trying to piece together like, what the fuck is going on? Where there's people starving? And then there's like, on the other hand, there's people with like ridiculous wealth and just like, it doesn't seem like they deserve it.

Like it doesn't seem like they have any hard work put in. What was the point, because what I'm trying to get at is normally when I speak to people who are thinking in that way, they tend towards like a socialist ideals and they'll then latch on to like one specific thing where they think it's going to change.

Like I have loads of friends who are really lovely people think about all this stuff all the time, they're trying to fix the world and then they'll latch on to say like climate change.

And then they'll like go and protest all the time and they like do that and they genuinely want to make change, they genuinely think that that's going to help the world. And I'm just wondering like, how did you avoid that? Because you must have been around a lot of people like that, I assume.

Yeah, so that's one of my worries on taking that degree. I didn't actually want to take the degree. I just wanted to take a couple courses. But like I told you, I was broke and my mom was like, hey, I'll pay for your courses, but only if you take the whole degree.

And I was like, all right, I mean, if you're going to pay for it, you know, no problem. I was actually super surprised because the degree had people from all over the world and they know what the problems are in their countries, Bangladesh, India, certain parts of India, right, are insane.

I don't know if you ever been, but man, you know, go to India and your mind will be open for sure. But I mean, you meet all those people who are uber privilege and I felt super privileged coming from the West, you know, and I still feel so even in the Bitcoin space.

Look, I can stack using all these different apps. I have all these different benefits and it's because the financial inclusivity in America is like unbelievable, right? In comparison, I think we'll have that. Yeah, it's still shit, but it's in comparison.

Yeah, yeah, like, you know, I've had no problem buying Bitcoin at any amount that I've wanted. So, so far, so good. My bank accounts have never been frozen. I've never been questioned. You know, I'm not worried about a ban, right? So I just feel privileged on that end.

But yeah, you know, I was born into like a nice society where we have clean water and clean air and then you go to India and like different story, right? And so, you know, inequality is a feature of just life, right? It's a feature of all animals.

There's no such thing as equality, but there is a way where we can better our tools, right? From the bottom up and I'm a grassroots kind of guy. I'm not about like top down. Hey, please tell me what to do. Please tell my friends to do better. Like, I'm not like that.

I'm a pure bottom up guy, grassroots type of guy. So that's never ever entered my brain, but also because, you know, all my grandparents are Holocaust survivors. So, you know, all my stories about fascism that I've grown up on and socialism and stuff like that haven't been, you know, they haven't been pro government, right?

And when a government's taken everything that you've worked for your whole life, including the lives of your daughters, you know, my grandfather had a wife and two daughters burned in front of him before my family existed, right?

So he had to, you know, find my grandmother and remarry and my grandmother, you know, Auschwitz survivor, Dr. Mengele, a survivor, right? So hardcore shit. You know, my grandfather survived 11 death camps.

You know, how do you come out of the other side of that? You know, extremely sharp dude rebuilt everything he had and more, but became super successful, but he never left Munich, Germany.

So you're talking about a guy who stayed in the capital, basically, of Nazi Germany. And it's also like Munich is the center of Europe. So if you're looking at them, you're like, oh, okay, that's why they sat there, right?

Wow. And, and, but, you know, he was based, you know, he, he started a cash only business, you know, taxes were, were, or weren't paid, you know, fucking fair play. And his best friend who died in the Holocaust had a son. He died like right after the Holocaust, and he was like, please take care of my son.

So his son was this big, brawny guy, and my grandfather was smaller. And so one was the brains. One was the muscle. It go collect all the cash. And they became super, super successful.

Because, you know, post World War II real estate in Munich, Germany, right? So they became successful comparatively to being almost dead, right? It's all relative, right? And being successful is different for certain people than for other people. Some people think a hundred bucks is a lot of money like myself.

They don't think that'll ever change, obviously in, in sats, but, you know, but yeah, you know, I definitely have huge distrust in the government. My, my dad brought me up in that way as well. Like my dad's not an American citizen, even though he could be.

And, you know, I've just always grown up with like, hey, fuck the government. So that's been passed down. I mean, firstly, incredible story like that. That's chilling. What you just told me there.

And it's so, it's so close in history. Like it is not that long ago that such unbelievable evil was seen. And to come through and get out the other side of that is, you know, absolutely unbelievable.

And then I assume that these stories have been passed through your family and that this is kind of like your family get it. They're like, yeah, government, you should not trust them and that you're not that far away from complete tyranny and evil.

And, you know, to keep your head on a swivel basically. I guess that's kind of what separates some families from others. Like it's almost that most people forget that this stuff has happened and not just once, but consistently through history.

And so having grandparents who tell stories like that must have affected your outlook from a very young age, I imagine. Yeah. I mean, when you see the Auschwitz tattoo on your grandmother's arm, you know, it's not a story anymore.

You know, shit's real, right? So, yeah, I mean, you would think that more people who have those families would think that way. But it is very recent, but it's also have become far away because, you know, most of them have passed.

So I always find myself wishing that my grandfather was still here or my grandmother was still here in a conscious way where they could see what's going on in the world today. Because I think their voice would have been heard stronger than any of ours pointing to history because they lived it, right?

And so, you know, my other side of the family got lucky. Like my mom's side, they escaped. They weren't in any concentration camps. They escaped right before. But that's just because they were willing to give up all their property and run away.

A lot of people stayed and passed because they were defending their property. And, you know, for me, Bitcoin, when I look at it and I say, "Wow, like, if my family could have just kept their wealth in their heads, well, then we'd be in a different place today."

You know? Yeah. That's one of the most powerful parts with Bitcoin. Like, it's one of the things that really stands out to me the more I think about it, especially now, especially with the way that I'm seeing the world turn the last sort of 12 months.

I've really started to think about how powerful that is as an idea that people can do that. They can cross a border with their wealth.

And it's something that was unimaginable then. And like you said, it's something that does tie you because you think, because you never know, like, you know, 24 months ago, if you just said where we are in the world today, I'd have probably said, "That's pretty far fetched.

I don't really think that's the way it's going to go. Where's it going to be in another 24 months?" No one really knows, but the trajectory seems pretty fucking terrible. And so there is a point where you say, "Well, where is my line in the sand?"

Where would I say, "Okay, I'm just going to leave my property, the rest of my family, everyone who thinks that I'm crazy and just get the fuck out of here." And it's really difficult because unless you make a definitive, when this happens, "I'm gone," kind of idea, then is that frog boiling in water?

It's kind of like, "Well, okay, it's just this. I can get round it by doing this. Okay, this has changed, but it's not that bad." And so with your family that did decide to leave, when they left all their property and everything else, were they one of the few who were doing it or how did that go?

Did they explain to you what it was like? And when you say leave their property, you mean literally they left their homes, et cetera, and they just went with nothing. Is that basically what they had to do?

So there's two sets of people because basically my grandparents on my mother's side met after the war. So from my grandfather's side, his parents were basically, honestly, wealthy, worthless people.

And when I say worthless, I mean, they were impotent. They didn't know how to go through the forest and find food or survive. They were in their nice house having a good time, writing their horses or whatever they did, you know?

Yeah, soft. Yeah. Maybe intellectually smart, but useless. And so he was like an 11-year-old boy. One of the crazy stories that he told us before he passed, because he only passed kind of recently, was one time he got lined up.

So he was like 11-12 years old, and his parents were waiting for him at the train, and he got caught up on the way. And I think they had separated so that if one person gets caught, they don't all get caught, right?

And this isn't impolent. So he gets caught, and he gets lined up. And I mean lined up, I mean, there's like, you know, 10 to 20 people, sometimes more lined up side by side, shoulder to shoulder.

And then they shoot you one by one, and they push you into a ditch, right? You fall right backwards into a ditch, right? And right before my grandfather's turn, an older gentleman pushed him in and right when the other guy was shot.

So the guy got shot next to him, the guy right before him, and the older man just shoved him right into the hole. And he waited, waited, waited, waited until nighttime, a bunch of dead bodies on top of him, climbed out, found the train, found his parents.

And then they went to the forest, so they just kept moving. Yeah. And then they got shot, 11 years old, and so the person who shoved him, this is what a Nazi officer, oh, someone who was shoulder to shoulder with him pushed him in your hand.

So young boy, he saved his life. Wow. This is just like, I've never had a conversation with someone who's been this close to what's happened then. Basically, my grandparents were fighting against the Nazis, and they've got some crazy war stories and, you know, some mad stuff that's happened.

And I wish they were alive today that I could sit and have a conversation with them. But it's a very different lens, and I've never had a conversation with someone who has been this close to just such absolute evil.

And for that to happen to an 11 year old, living with that for the rest of their life will completely change them as a person. It's like crawling out of a ditch with bodies on top of you, and then having to go and run and hide with your family in the woods.

You're not a boy anymore. He's a man. The thing that amazes me is when you're talking about, you know, having to stay in a country and not being able to take your wealth and all of the stuff that your family had to go through.

I can't help thinking, what would that be like in today's world, and specifically with the internet and with Bitcoin? Do you have any thoughts of how that would be different, you know, with those tools at hand?

Well, would things be different? Well, you know, the story of the ships coming over from Europe full of Jews in America turning them away. Would they turn them away if it was a ship full of wealthy individuals?

Good point. Maybe, maybe not the better shot, right? Pay your way, right? So there's that aspect to it. But yeah, I mean, when I do look at the historical context, I do feel that everything is more subtle.

The powers that be or anybody trying to subvert, you know, freedom or whatever you want to call it. I really don't care. They realize that controlling people is much easier when you have a digitized economic machine.

Right? And when you have a machine that works so well, like they do right now, which is being defended by the people that they themselves are subverting, you know, it's a pretty genius, evil, genius system.

I mean, it's much more subtle and things happen much more gradually and then suddenly, just like Bitcoin, which is sort of interesting because, you know, you look at like my grandfather who, you know, that we just spoke about 11 years old, right?

He said he became a man and he really did. So he had to figure out how to get food, how to get shelter, all those things. Meanwhile, not getting caught by any German insight, right? So, or anybody that would rat him out, right? Which you never know, right?

Everybody's a spook, right? Because one bad move, you're dead. So, um, or in a concentration camp and then death. So, um, personally, from all the stories that I've read, I think it depends on what concentration camp, but sometimes you'd rather be dead on the spot, right?

Um, but he survived and he made it, he made it all the way to Israel. And he fought for independence, his life depended on it. So he, uh, he did all that and then he started farming, olive trees.

And that's how that's like my first experience on a farm was coming in the summer and helping him improve in those olive trees and the heat. Yeah, so he made it all the way, like my family is a success story of surviving.

But, you know, huge costs. I don't know any survivor who survived without sacrificing or, you know, just losing a huge portion of what was meaningful to them. Whether that be family members, whether that be their wealth or that be both, right?

Um, so, you know, there is no such thing as making it out scot free. No such thing ever in history. There's going to be some things that you sacrifice. And in terms of defending my land, like I don't think I would defend it so hard.

You know, I wouldn't. Um, the people that did died. You know, um, it wasn't a success story. There isn't many success stories like, yeah. And I just like hold up in my 20 or 100 acres. And some people had few hundreds of acres, right?

Mm hmm. Let's see. Let's see where the next chapter takes us. I, I'm more optimistic than most people on Twitter. Mm hmm. And so do you think that your love of farming and the idea for land was sort of seeded at that time, spending time with your grandfather, um, with his, what was it?

Like, uh, he had a load of olive trees on a, on a plot of land. Was it? Yeah. Yeah. And, um, in a socialist country, right? In Israel. Israel is a socialist country. They don't make any, they don't make any qualms about it.

Yeah. Or a socialist country. And, uh, I don't do what I do there because, because of that. Right. Yeah. That's, that's a huge inspiration. But you sort of at that time, do you think that was where you maybe even subconsciously started to think about, like produce and being sustainable yourself?

Because presumably you had a huge amount of respect for your grandfather. Like he sounds like the type of man that you would look up to and be like, fuck, I want to be like this guy. He's tough.

Like he's, he's been through it. He's not broken down. He's not yielded. Like he's, uh, he's on to the next thing. And he's, you know, growing and producing and looking after his family, like, you must look up to someone like that and a part of you must think, oh, I want to be like this guy.

Yeah. I mean, deeply, you know, I come from, you know, I would travel from America and I come visit, uh, my grandfather in Israel every summer. And in America, farmer had this, like, a prototypical, like dumb farmer who's just trying to make ends meet and always like behind the eight ball.

Like what I see, which is like a badass guy who is like, Hey, by the way, like, here's a gift. Here's a dagger that I used to like, you know, straight up, save my own life and kill somebody with it's like, Oh, shit, like, all right, farming is a little more badass than a anyone has a given credit for.

And then you work one day on the farm and you're like, yeah, like, this is real work. And then everyone else is like, Hey, like, are you going to, you know, go work in finance? Are you going to be a lawyer?

Are you going to be a doctor? And I mean, being a doctor is commendable. Don't get me wrong. But the other two, you know, not so much in my eyes, you know, and I have been offered all those jobs, like those really good jobs in finance.

And I always said, no, and I would like lie to my parents. I'd be like, yeah, you know, I didn't get the job. Oh, really? Yeah. And I was. And they're like, what do you want to do with your life?

I'm like, I don't know. And I always knew. Why didn't you want to say like, what was the, did they not have the same views as you then? Like, if you'd have said, you know, I want to be like my granddad, I want to be a farmer.

Would they have been like, no, you need to do finance. You need to chase the money. Like, did they have a different view to you? So I didn't know I wanted to be a farmer of produce because when I was 18, I actually moved to California.

And the second that I could write, I was like, saving money, like for the last, like, you know, for 12 months before, and I like moved to California. And I dropped out of high school, by the way.

And I started growing marijuana in California. And I loved it. Awesome. And I fucking loved it. And I was like, I want to do this. But then I, and then I was like, Oh, like, you know, I need, I need to like make more money.

And I also need to have like some balance in life. And I was like, all right, like, I'm still young, like, let me go have some fun before I'm in the middle of nowhere, growing things, you know?

And I've been like, I've been a remnant in that sense, you know, I've smoked weed from the second that I've wanted to, and I never ever thought if it was legal or not, right? But yeah. So that was like, like, the second that I finally started growing something, I was like, Oh, this is for me.

And then I just needed to make enough money so that I could do it without being a rent seeker, like working for others or whatever. Right. So basically I wanted to live in a different country also.

So I moved to Tel Aviv, which was amazing. I mean, amazing experience. But yeah, my family isn't based like I am. So that's one, that's one issue that I deal. I'm the only unvaxed individual in my family.

Oh, me too, mate. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's actually really tough because I think the comfortability that Israel has given a lot of people for my background is like a false sense of security.

Mm hmm. So, you know, they have like, I think they just, you know, everyone goes to the army where I'm from. And that leads to like obedience, the end of the day. Yeah. That's why you see them all getting taxed.

Right. They, they trust their governance, their, they trust their institutions. It's weird. Here too. Sad. I don't know how here, you know, and Israel, they're probably a little bit more competent than, than here.

Mm hmm. Do you think that there's, do you think that there's some type of, um, genetic streak that runs through certain people, which is like a disobedience, like, the reason I ask, there are certain people who like, I speak to who have always had that kind of streak.

No matter what, it's like, well, I'm not going to do as I'm told unless it makes sense. And they question, does it make sense? No. Is it reasonable? No. Well, then I'm not going to do it.

And I don't care if it's illegal. I don't care if it's wrong. And that's something that like, it's got personally me in a huge amount of trouble in the early part of my life, um, just constantly with every type of, uh, either law enforcement or schooling or jobs or anything is that my life was particularly hard and I made it

hard by just being like, Nope, fuck that. I'm not doing it. And most of the friends that I've had have been the same way, but, but not always is it the upbringing, like, you know, the, the entire or the rest of my family will do absolutely as they're told.

They absolutely toe the line, um, that they, they will just, I don't know if it's even trust. I think it's just ease. Do you think it's like a, a genetic streak or do you think it's experiences in life?

Do you have any, any thoughts on that? Yeah. Yeah. I definitely think that, uh, it can be both. So I've definitely been super disobedient in my whole life. Um, I always asked why they always had to be a reason and you had to convince me.

And I think when you have to convince somebody about something and you can't, that becomes super frustrating, right? And so you just mark it off as like, Oh, this kid is disobedient. And it's like, well, that's probably a good trait to have, right?

Like somebody who just wants to know why, but for some reason, like in schooling and also in parent and some parenting situations, it's like, because I'm your father or because I'm your mother.

Cause I say, so that's a shitty fucking answer, you know, that's a shitty answer. And that was my response. Always. I'm like, Oh, that's a shitty fucking answer. And they're like, you just drop the F bomb and I'm like, what's wrong with the F word?

It's just a fucking word to display emotion. It's explaining to me why I can't use it. Like cause it's a bad word. Okay. Well, that's another shitty fucking reason, you know, and like, I just like always think I'm like, look, like you explain everything else to me, except for these few, like, you

know, tribalistic, like, uh, societal norms, you know, and it's like, we have a bunch of societal norms, which like kind of don't make sense, right? Like, I hear a lot of people saying like, Oh, like the Chinesey cats and dogs.

And I'm like, okay, well, you know, it's an animal. Mm hmm. I mean, I wouldn't judge them that hard on that. I wouldn't. I mean, it's an animal sentient, same as the cow, same as the goat.

You don't, you might not like it, but we might not do it ourselves, but, but it's a cultural thing, isn't it? Like, I would never eat a dog because I love my dog, like more than anything on the planet.

You don't want a Labrador, you don't eat a Labrador, you know, it's like, no, but I'm with you. I wouldn't also judge. I mean, like, I'd rather they didn't do it. I think the way in which sometimes they kill these animals, you know, I certainly don't.

Same, by the way, I think I was listening to this, like, I've never eaten cat or dog. I'm just saying there's like norms that cross the spectrum of humans that are different, of course. People just accept, you know, like you're talking about growing weed.

And like, that's one that's just fucking lunacy is, you know, the fact that there can be a control on drugs, like, especially drugs that are natural, like mushrooms and weed and stuff like that.

And you think like, you know, here in the UK, we've got, it's quite a big drinking society. Like, there's a lot of big drinkers, you know, Friday, Saturday nights, just like people getting absolutely obliterated.

And that's legal and cigarettes are legal, but this plant that grows, which actually, you know, how often do you see someone who's acting violently or abusively, or getting into fights when they've smoked a joint, like never, how often do you see people smashing

each other's skulls in with bottles on a Friday night, every Friday night, how often are people coming home and beating their wife every Friday night, you know, and so that's legal. And then people will, will say, well, yeah, but it's illegal.

So you can't do that. It's like, well, legality and morality are completely fucking different things. And just to go along with it, because someone somewhere has said, Oh, well, I want that to be illegal is literally that is not questioning.

It's the complete opposite of, like you're saying you were as a kid, like, why? And people never seem to ask why, like, and I think maybe that then translates into, you know, the people who are asking why and the people who are repain in the arts at school

are the ones who are then finding Bitcoin and going, hang on a minute, this is the way the current financial system is why? And that's where you start to get down this rabbit hole and that's where you start to meet like minded people.

And that's where it's really interesting. That's where it's like, Oh, this is not just almost, this is not just a technology. And a tool, this is almost a way of finding like minded individuals that you can work together with to make change.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, spot on, you know, it just doesn't make sense, right? To make like a plan to see the illegal, right? The precedent on that, the slippery slope on that is like unbelievable, right?

And just imagine, you know, like I dropped out of high school because I was on the basketball team, I'm bawling, I'm smoking weed though, you know, my grades are perfect that I'm smoking weed.

And I came to school, I came to school one time late, had a suspicion that I was stoned. And you know, fair, I was, you know, but, you know, that wasn't different from any other day that I was coming, you know, and they made this whole like, like, it was literally

like this whole scene and they drug tested me and that would have been fine. You know, if I got into a little bit of trouble, like whatever, I literally didn't give a fuck, you know, but the way that they treat you after that is like you're some sort of criminal.

So like, I remember, I'll never forget it, like I was on the bus, we're going in like an away game, I'm sitting there with like all my teammates, my coaches, like we were late. So we had already switched into our jerseys and then the principal comes and says, Hey,

get up and pee in this cup in front of everyone basically, like takes me off the bus. And I was like, I fucked this school, like fuck school, like I don't even need this shit. Like I smoke weed and read books at home.

I don't even do like any of the work that they ask for me. Like, I don't need this shit. So like a dropout, right? Because like after that, everyone's calling me dopey and like, it's like not comfortable, right?

It's like you're, you're, you're treated as some sort of scumbag because you smoke weed and read books at home, like, wow, fucking criminal, not drinking, like all these other fucking idiots, you know, like, yeah, I have a drink here and there, but it's not, I'm not a drinker.

Yeah. And I don't smoke tobacco, I don't smoke cigarettes, I don't, man, I'd play basketball and read books. Wow. You know, fuck that guy. Yeah. Yeah. It is, it is amazing, but it's, it's because you're a minority.

And there's so much, there's so much talk about like, oh, equality and, you know, we have to help the minorities and all this stuff. And it's like, but not all minorities, you know, we don't want to help all minorities.

We don't want to help the people who prefer to use a plan rather than alcohol. And we don't like the minorities that want to think freely. And we don't want the minorities that don't want to have an experimental jab in their arm because they're being forced to do it.

Those minorities, fuck them, but the other minorities, yeah, let's make a big song and dance about and let's sort of make legislation and all this sort of stuff and, and try and show that we're inclusive.

It's, it's so weird that people can't see how stupid that is. It's, it's mind blowing, right? It really is. You know, I, I, I grow cannabis right now for my personal consumption. And I don't want to buy it from some sketchy motherfucker, like that.

I don't know. I just have to like, what? Take a chance. And I'm buying this from somebody like also like, is it organic? Like what's in it, you know? And every time I say that somebody like, well, isn't it illegal?

And I'm like, not in, not in she she land. No, it's not. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And so with the growing, like you said, with, with knowing how has it been grown? I mean, that, I think that's a big problem, I mean, all over the place, but especially

here in the UK, where it's like pretty, they're pretty tight on things. And if you are going to grow, you've got to use a grow house, you've got to do things inside. It's like, well, a lot of people will be using all types of chemicals to speed up the process.

And then do they actually flush those chemicals at the end of a cycle or are, you know, what are you smoking? And so it's the same with any drug, obviously, but the idea that you lead, you criminalize something and push it underground, thinking that's going to stop it is obviously ludicrous.

It doesn't stop it at all. It just means that the quality of what someone's taking is questionable. And there's no, there's no like way of making sure that people are getting quality. So this whole, you know, at the heart of it, this fiat culture of controlling the money

goes all the way down to controlling behavior, controlling thought, controlling food, controlling substances, and the control that they put under it doesn't increase the quality of life. It decreases the quality of life.

And I think that's where, you know, we have a real chance now is like, well, where do you attack? Where do you try and stop this? You go right to the heart and right at the heart of all of this bullshit is the money.

And that's the draw. That's where it's like, okay, we can, we can potentially stop this fucking stupidity. 100% man. And it's the same in Bitcoin, right? The cannabis user said, Hey, we can stay growing longer than you guys can stay mad, you know, at us.

And it's the same thing with Bitcoin, like we can, we can hodl longer than they can stay solvent. So I totally, I mean, I'm a total believer in doing whatever the fuck you want, doing it smart.

Obviously, you know, I don't go around waving a flag. I'm not trying to go past a certain point. So that like, if somebody does come, like, I think of it this way, like everybody's human, even like a police officer, like nobody would come into my house and be like, you're doing something wrong.

You need to go to jail, like nobody would do that, right? But I also make sure that that's the case, right? I don't go, you know, above and beyond. I'm not trying to do anything stupid either, right?

Like I don't really like my freedom. And so, but there is some sort of middle finger that we have to show that works, like look at cannabis, it's being legalized all over the United States, you know, I haven't heard of anybody getting into trouble for cannabis in the last five years where before that,

it was like, all the time, you know, I'm saying like my friends, you know, or like people I know, like, oh, I got pulled over, like it's not now it's like, oh, I got pulled over and he didn't give a fuck, you know, yeah.

And I think that that whole subversion is super important and it's part of like the remnant culture. And I think that's why we're so like allergic to like fiat people because they're so weak.

They don't want to take any risk. They don't want any risk. How can I make, you know, you know, the whole idea of a risk free rate, right? Like, how can I make my money and how risk, right?

And it's it's fucking wild, right? It's like, how can I make my hay without risk? It doesn't exist. So, you know, you know, like look at Ben Gunn's story, hey, I'm just going to go off on a whim and buy a forest.

My type of guy, you know, let's take some rain, you know, that forest is fucking unbelievable. I really need to come visit over there when they let my kind back into your country. Definitely.

Well, if you do, we'll go for a few drinks or a smoke actually, although I've I've given up now, I've given up smoking like fairly recently because I don't know if you've ever had this, it's it's a weird, I smoked for years and years, absolutely fine.

It affected me in a good way. I would say I'd reflect in the evenings, I'd sit under the stars. I'd just think and and, you know, I really enjoyed it. It was like my way of winding down at the end of a night.

I'd never smoke in the day. It was only at night. I smoked one or two joints and then I'd go to bed. I sleep really well. Everything's fine and dandy and I never really drank at all. And then I took a break from it and when I started smoking again, I started getting like panic attacks.

I started getting heart palpitations, sweating, I had to just lie down and then I then I so I stopped again and then I came back to it. Same thing happened, stopped again, came back to it.

Same thing happened. And in the end, I just went, do you know what, even though I start to want to do it every evening, it's actually not, when I really think carefully about it, it's not actually giving me the effect that I want.

The effect that I want is to calm myself down because my brain's all over the place all the time and like, you know, life can be pretty stressful and you know, it was a way of relaxing. I used to smoke and pain and I could smoke and pain all day and I'd love it, but it doesn't have that effect anymore.

So I've had to knock it on the head. Have you had any experiences like that before or not? Yeah, so I, you know, I would smoke weed every day in high school just to get through that thing.

And I stopped after because it was just so expensive and hard to get for me in Israel. You know, you're talking like, you're talking super expensive, it just didn't make any sense. Once again, let me just grab with some water.

And so basically when I came back to it, the same thing started happening to me. So it's smoke a joint to get anxiety. I just couple all the way you just said under anxiety because that's what I think it is.

And in my opinion, like anxiety is like a fuel that's telling you, Hey, like, what's up? Like, what are you doing? Right? There's something that's uneasy in the back of your mind if you're getting anxiety.

Yeah. I think like the first time it happens to you, the next time you're about to smoke, you're like, I hope this doesn't happen again. Right? The first thought when you're taking a smoke and that happened to me.

So I stopped smoking for like a year. Yeah. I've taken like multiple long breaks in my life, like like six months a year. And every time I come back to it, I get this anxiety, the same thing you're talking about, literally word for word.

And what I realized is there's two things. One, I like indica. So you're smoking probably a sativa because that's the most rampant out there. It's the most common thing you can get. And like getting some really good indica is hard because most indicas now are hybrids.

So there's that issue, but let's say you got some good indica, right? Well, now you have to actually sit there and smoke a good bit. Like you shouldn't, I mean, I think you have to either go big or you go home with cannabis, right?

Where you like, okay, I'm going to smoke throughout the day. And as I have more anxiety, I'm just going to smoke more, you know. Another thing I found is that if you smoke a blunt, right?

So if you have the tobacco on the outside, I don't know the inside. I think that's like a nice step in. But yeah, I like the water filtration. So I smoke out of like a bubbler and since I've had my significant other, like my girlfriend, I was hoping that she was like, when I met her, I was like, oh, I hope she likes to smoke weed.

Because like the last relationship before that I was like hiding it. And I really hiding it just like not mentioning it, right? Yeah. Too much. Because I don't know, I just felt judged. Yeah.

Yeah. So I was like, oh, I hope like I really like her. I hope she's a stoner and she was and kind of like, I haven't like felt that one time since I started smoking again and I started smoking again with her like two years ago.

And in my ACL tear, I also was smoking like an exorbitant amount of amount of weed because like imagine being at home all day, like, what are you going to do? Yeah. You know, and like some days I got anxiety and some days I didn't.

And I just realized that it's like, okay, the strain is super important. And then how much you smoke is like, just keep it up. Like don't get scared. Like don't be nervous, you know, but I hope I hope I hope you figure that out because there's something to be said about the medicinal properties and the protective properties of

cannabis in your brain and everywhere. So people like all the propaganda, like smoking marijuana kills your brain cells. Like, yeah, like maybe the tumorous ones, you know, I don't find my cognitive ability to be less.

I mean, I find it to be more of anything. Yeah. You mentioned mushrooms, like, I remember like, you know, the first time I ever took mushrooms, I was like 15 years old and people were like, wow, that's really young.

And I'm like, well, I wanted it. So I took it. And then I didn't take it again, but like for a little bit, but I immediately told my mom, I remember I was like, Hey, you know, you know, mushrooms is going to be legal.

Like, uh, still aside with mushrooms and cannabis is going to be legal in my lifetime. And she said I was a fucking idiot and all this shit. She's like, you're going nowhere. And I'm like, all right, well, you know, who is right because it's legal now in like Oregon or whatever.

So yeah, you know, I, uh, I'm a big believer in all that stuff. Like microdosing mushrooms is probably like one of the best things you could do for your brain. So yeah, I'd like to try that as well.

I think with all of this stuff, it's like, um, it's just finding what works for you. And you know, it's interesting that you said about, Oh, well, it should, it should, you should look into what strain and all that kind of stuff.

There's a lot of weed smokers like I've spoken to, they've gone, Oh, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Like it is great. And I'm just like, well, not for me. Um, and, and so I did look into that and I think you're right, having the right strain is important.

And, and, and also being it being useful, being able to have a smoke and actually being able to study or read something or listen to something, um, was what I would enjoy. And it just got to a point where my brain was so scatty, I was just like, like, my heart was going out my chest.

And I was just like, what I'd end up doing is, I think in my head are, I'm going to sit, have a smoke, read a book, like, you know, uh, watch the documentary, whatever it was. And what would end up actually happening is I'd have to just do the most like basic

shit, like watch some movie that I've watched a million times just to take my mind off it and not actually be productive at all. And it would just like fuck my whole evening. And so I was like, ah, this is no good. Um, but when it's good, it's great.

Max, next time just go and lift weights to just go, yeah, yeah, go and lift weights. Cause you're not going to like watching a movie is just distracting you. Lifting weight is like you're going into your whole body and it's just a way different experience. I mean,

when that's happened to me, I just go downstairs, go and start doing pullups. Yeah. Okay. I'll try that then. It's a bit of a bit of a track to the gym for me, but I'm going to build one in the, in the garage when I move house. So when, when I move, I'm

going to start a bit of gardening, uh, start growing some produce, start, um, yeah, putting a gym in the garage and all that kind of stuff. And, uh, I'm really looking forward to that. So, so, so let's talk about that again. Let's, let's, let's, let's get back to say that.

Let me start gardening. So I have a question for you. Um, yeah, like how big is the spot? Oh, not big at all. Um, it was, I'm really bad at like measurement, but it would be probably less than one eighth of an acre, one tenth of an acre. Like it's, it would be a little

terraced house. So like, um, not big, but it does have a greenhouse. Um, and it does have a little bit of an area for, for like growing bits and pieces. So there won't be a lot, but I'd like to do some tomatoes and, uh, some, you know, just like basic stuff,

be true and, and things like that. But I'd like to actually circle back to where we started the discussion, which is, uh, what you're doing with your land. So, because I feel like we've, we've skipped all over the place and it's been awesome. But I'd really like to know a little

bit more, uh, about what it is that, that you're doing and hopefully learn something so that when I have mine, I can, uh, I can use some of these tips. 100% man. And, um, I'll jump right in.

Um, so my first goal is to make all my own compost. I haven't bought any compost, right? So I mentioned that in the beginning, but I think that is more radical than people care to think about. And so I'm attacking it from like three angles. First angle is my grass. So right now,

I have two and a half acres, most of its grass, right? Cause it's, it's a cleared land. It's, I didn't clear it. Um, I actually saved it from being developed into more houses. Um, and so it's just this land that I'm lucky. So like animals used to live on here, a horse used

to live on here at one point, some goats, I think used to live on here. And so the soil is like, it's pretty malleable, but it's clay soil. So what I do is, is that the first step is I cut the grass, right? And I cut the grass, uh, using a scythe actually. So again, with my body,

people like, why don't you buy, uh, you know, I don't know, $1,200 or $2,000 sit down lawnmower. And I'm like, well, then I'm sitting on my ass all day, you know, um, like fuck that. So I bought this grim reaper fucking thing, you know, and there's a learning curve, but I love it. I mean,

it's really, it works. Like there's a reason why, you know, people still use that today. And so I cut my grass, pile it up and I make compost piles without any leaves. And I just made one the other day, for example, and, um, I popped the thermometer in there to check to see if I did it right,

which I always do, but you know, I always check it and hit that 140 Fahrenheit, which is what you're after hit it at least twice. So they can use things with like, you know, a lot of people say, hey, like, don't compost your weeds. Well, you can, if you make your compost pile big enough,

right? And you have the right combination of like carbon and nitrogen, right? So it's like browns and greens, right? So you're making your compost piles out of grass and leaves. That's one, one part. Another thing is I get free wood chips. So free mulch dropped, um, in the front of my house,

um, by tree service, uh, providers, so they need a place to dump these wood chips that they cut down all within a five mile radius. And that was another reason why I chose this plot, because the road is very convenient for the tree service providers. So they actually don't

charge me anything. Whereas other people that I know have to pay a few hundred dollars for their mulch all the time. So actually, like one of my main jobs right now is just moving the mulch around, so to make more space, because I just want more and more and more and more, because basically

as that mulch pile breaks down, it turns into black soil, like literally black, black gardening soil. And it's like a fungal dominant soil. And that's, you know, if you think of like the forest floor, you know, what drops and what, what decomposes. And like,

that soil is amazing. Like next time you're in a forest, just like dig your hand into the soil, pick up a bunch and smell it, you know, smells fresh. I literally did that today. Weirdly, I genuinely did that today. I actually picked up some soil in the wood.

And yeah, it smelled like fresh, right? And there's mushrooms growing all over the place, and just like, yeah, all sorts going on. Yeah. Exactly. So that's a static pile, a wood chip pile that breaks down into like amazing composts, but it takes two years, if you just leave it like that, how it's dumped to get into that like, you know,

state where you can actually just put it on the ground and plant right into it. But I also use that mulch for killing weeds, for mulching on top of my beds, and just for killing the grass to make it like bare soil so that I can like, play some compost down and start a garden bed, right? Like, how do you kill grass to start a

garden bed, right? People use plastic. I refuse to use that. It's industrial material. Micro plastics end up going into your into your soil, whether you like it or not. Whether you think that's an issue or not is, I'm not going to debate you on that. I just refuse to use any

industrial products on the farm. So even in my potting soil, like I'm trying to make it myself, I don't need it to be a hundred percent germination rate or whatever people are after because I'm making it myself. I'm not buying it, right? So I don't care if it's like 70% effective,

as long as it works. And so to do that, I have my worms. So worm castings are a huge part of my vision for this farm. So as you can see, like compost is like this like multi-pronged effort, right? So, you know, you have a very small plot. So maybe you have a couple chickens,

they make some chicken shit, but that's not scalable and such a small plot. You might make enough, you might not. So I think worms are really interesting because you can actually grow worms using vertical space, right? Using you just build a bin that that can stack on top of each other,

or you buy them. So I buy these food grade plastic bins and I stacking them in my garage to the ceiling of red wigglers of worms that are focusing worms that can survive pretty low temperatures. And they make the most amazing fertilizer. Like you pick you pick some of that

stuff up, you're like, Whoa, this is awesome. And to do that, I basically just take leaves. I take this plant called comfrey that we spoke about in that space, as you mentioned. Yeah. And I chop that up. And then I also put this like half broken down mulch that I have. So mulch that's been

aged like one year. So it's not ready yet, but the worms will eat it and speed up that process. So I feed it. And then I have this like three pronged process where I can have enough compost to actually lay down in my beds. And I'm finding success in that. I mean, I have a shitload of

mulch in my in the front yard. It doesn't like look so great, but I know what it's going to turn into. And like the one year old piles are already turning black. Then I do four thing called a Johnson Sue bio reactor. Okay. And that actually lets the wood chips break down into

compost after one year, okay, instead of two. So it cuts the time and half. And so what is this? Yeah, what is what? So what what is the you just said a name, a Johnson something? Yeah. So there's a super nice guy. I think his name is David Johnson, but it's Johnson Sue. So

Johnson is him and Sue is his his wife. And there are team of researchers that wanted to figure out how to make fungal dominant compost in half the time or in a shortened period of time than two years, right? And so basically you take the wood chips, fresh wood chips that you get works really well.

You saturate them with water and then you put them in this tower that you make that has these tubes running through it. And you remove the tubes after like their PVC pipe tubes with holes in them, and then like they're perforated. So you just take them out after 24 hours. So you build this

tower of like saturated wood chips. And then you know that the tube basically holds it in place for 24 hours. And it's crazy. The high fae of the mycelium literally holds the pile together after 24 hours.

So you can remove it and it will stay the same. Like it really won't come. And it's pretty incredible when you like look through a wood chip pile and you see all the the strands of high fae, all the mycelium and all the mushrooms growing out of it, you know, there's in one of my piles,

there's like maybe like 10 different types of mushrooms growing out of it, none of them out of both, I believe, but you know, you could definitely use some some spawn and spawn up some edible mushrooms in your wood chip piles as well. But yeah, so basically just a way to speed up the

process by keeping it moist and keeping it aerated. Right. So when you make compost, you're making making yourself your worries are the temperature, which wood chips, because if you chip a whole tree with leaves, it's enough nitrogen to get it to 140 degrees. So even through winter, like the middle

of my wood chip piles will be 140 degrees. Wow. So technically I could warm warm my greenhouse and warm my house with that, but I'm not set up for that yet. Okay, I'm researching what's the best way to do that to use the heat that's from the the center of these wood chip piles,

actually, to then heat the home, you're saying? Yeah, you know, 140 degrees, and it really stays, like it really stays hot. Like I've checked in the winter, I have like my my two neighbors, they're two little two little boys, they love coming and doing experiments on the wood chip piles

and like jumping on them and like, whatever, you know, and they're like, oh, let's see how how hot it gets in the middle. I was like, all right, start digging. So he just did it. It actually helped me out because now I'm like super interested in warming my house with it. And

fuck, I'd never thought of that before. That would be incredible. I mean, that would, you know, you think of the amount of cost is a blessing in America, but the cost of heating at home is is huge. Yeah, and a greenhouse too, right? Like you you put like, I have a structure

that was existing before here that I'm going to convert into a greenhouse this winter. So I know it's like stupid, like I probably should have done it before, but, you know, you homestead and you tell me where to do this and see if you get to everything, you know,

never ending shit, right? And I also like any project around the house, like I'm doing it, like I don't hire people to do it. Yeah. So sometimes I get lucky in my my uncle. So this is where it gets interesting. My uncle, right, is 29 years old or 30 years old or whatever,

like similar age to me. And he's my grandfather's son, the guy that I told you about that had the farm, but he's my own. My grandfather remarried and had kids at the same time as my mom. Right. So imagine like, you know, you and your grandfather having kids at the same time again,

you know, it's kind of, he's like my age, but he's super handy way handier than I am. You know, he grew up on a farm. I grew up in a fucking city, you know, with, you know, so when he comes over, we always tackle like something. I'm like, hey, he's like, and he hates coming over to hang out.

He loves to do something. So he's coming over like, what are we doing? And so he's like, let's do the greenhouse. So we're going to take a bunch of this like polycarbonate plastic and put it around this structure I have here and give it a go. But still, like, if I could add some heat from wood

chips, like why not? You know, and yeah, it's so many interesting things. But basically what I'm growing, I'm growing for flavor, Max. So I'm not growing. So I think flavor is one of the only indicators we have of nutrition and food as we grow it. Right. That's one of my theories. And

for me, flavor is everything. Right. When you sit down in a meal and everyone just loves what they're eating, it's a way different experience than like, hey, have this like healthy salad that nobody likes, you know, like if you can make a salad taste good on its own, if the ingredients

taste good, then it's easy, right? If you can make like your potatoes taste better than the other guys, potatoes, well, then people will notice, you know, tomatoes, potatoes, eggplants, stuff like that that you can like really, you know, introduce flavor like squashes. Those are the things that

I'm really interested in. I'm actually really interested to team up with a restaurant, for example, with my potatoes. And I want I want to do like five different types of fries. So I want somebody to do like, have you ever been to a place where like, Hey, we have five different potatoes for a

French fries. They're all mixed in one like, no, no, I've never, I've never experienced that. And and also I've noticed that it's very, very rare. You go to any restaurant or anywhere that talks about where where their produce is from, how how you've grown it, or really talks about any of that.

And the other thing that I just found interesting, what you said there was like, measuring how nutritionally dense food is through flavor. And presumably, I'm guessing maybe this is your thought process is that if it tastes good to humans, it's likely that we know that this is nutritionally

dense because over the course of humanity, like we've had to, that's that is how we measure. Like, if something's good or not, is that kind of what you're thinking is that if it tastes good, well, it probably is. And that's a good measure. Yeah. And I also don't think that we really understand

the complexity of what nutrition is. So just to give you a perspective, like, all your food comes from the soil, I don't care if you're eating meat, I don't care what you're eating, it comes from the soil, right? Cowsy grass. Yeah. Right. And so I like when I was trying to study

some soil science, you're like, Oh, I'll start studying soil science. Like they must know I'll learn so much. You basically learn nothing. You learn that we know nothing, basically. The most like bullish estimates, the most pying this guy estimates say that we understand 5%

of the soil, food, web, and everything involved in it. Right. So, you know, 5% on the most bullish. I mean, some people say we know less than 1%. It's kind of like the depths of the ocean, right? Like, we don't. Right. We probably know the ocean better than we know the soil. And so. Right.

When it comes to soil, there's certain basic things that we've proven to be correct, let's say, right? So like when you see really black, deep black soil, you immediately say, Oh, wow, this amazing black soil, right? It's like intuitive. And so with food as well, like, if you eat meat

on a farm that is like closed loop, I mean, dude, it tastes different than your Walmart steak, you know, like, it's not even close. And, you know, some of the preliminary science shows that, that it's also much better. Like your body takes all of that in better when it's part of a like,

I guess it's the bacteria in your gut that we're really talking about. From what I've read, which is, you know, this this this doctor did a study on kids living in the city and kids living on a farm. And she didn't even care what they she just said, Hey, like kids living in the city

versus the kids living on the farm. How often do they get sick and go to the dock? I mean, it wasn't close, right? Like the kids in the city were getting sick all the time and the kids on the farm never got sick. So there's something about getting that soil into your mouth. And, and just

having that immediate like also, like, a lot of people don't think about the time to harvest. So if you get harvested, and then you eat it, but like when, you know, fast, you know, in terms of vegetables, it's very important that you eat it after you harvest it, right? In terms of in

terms of meat, it's very important that you preserve it properly, unless it won't taste right, right? You know, have you ever put a steak in a freezer and left the thing kind of open and then it gets like that freezer burn? Yeah. I don't know if you ever have that kind of like taste like a

freezer doesn't taste as good as like the stuff that you like vacuum packed or whatever. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So I mean, flavor is a big indicator for humans like when you open something and you smell it and it smells bad, you throw it away, right? So yeah, I'm a I'm a huge believer in just

using our intuition and not relying on any, you know, fiat science. It makes so much more sense because it's a system that's been developed over millions of years. And you know, you don't have to look at too many cases where you go, all right, this is the science, this is the definitive science.

Ah, five years later, it's completely fucking wrong. And it's consistently wrong across most fields. So and yeah, we definitely have intuition that works, like, how often do you feel something? And you just know, you know, something's off, you can't put your finger on it.

And then you go, ah, that's what was off. And you know, like, our bodies know, it's almost like we can't actually explain why we know, but we know, because it's so deep inside us. And so the idea that flavor is the same thing, just it makes sense. Yeah, like, have you ever eaten a blackberry from

a supermarket and compared it to a blackberry that's grown off the bush? Like, have you ever eaten a blackberry off the bush? Yeah, all the time, it's one of the only fruits that we really get here in the UK just walking around the woods. And they do taste different, definitely. A major difference.

Like I fed a friend a blackberry and he's like, this isn't a blackberry. And I'm like, yeah, it is, it's just way more sour when you pick it off the bush, you know. And I just think that is like a revolutionary act in today's world, you know, where, you know, when people come visiting me from the

city, I mean, some of them are like, oh, I've never harvested a tomato before. And I'm like, dude, what the fuck, you know, how could they smell? Yeah, like, it's, it's mind blowing for them. You see their whole brains like shifting, you know, it's fucking crazy. I mean, I remember my first

experience like that. I'm like, because like, I've traveled like every summer to go visit my family in Israel and in Germany. And eating the produce in America was dog shit. Like, like, I would come home and I'd be like, okay, like, just feed me a steak or whatever, because everything else is

garbage, you know. So the lots, lots of things to, to think about when you're growing. But I think the number one thing is flavor still. And so with your plot, so you're doing everything from the ground up, you're making your own compost. Is there a long term vision for this plot and some

type of timeline in terms of what you're going to be planting? And are there things that you've not got to yet? Because the soil's not ready? Yeah, so I let my girlfriend garden a lot and like plants, a lot of the things. And I've learned to let go. So lots of mistakes are being like

remedied, like in real time, and she gets to learn a lot. Because I've already had that experience and I have to remind myself that like, I have the most important fester fry, which is making the compost, because nobody else can do that but me. But the long term vision is

that in like, about when the farm is in its third year, there should be enough produce to supply my neighbors with 100% of their needs. So my goal is to like supply enough food for myself, supply enough food for my neighbors, and then supply enough food for a market of some sort,

whether that be restaurants or the farmers market or both, or whatever, or even just supplying more people their produce. But in this first couple years, yeah, like I'm so focused on the compost, because without that, I feel like I have nothing. So anyone can just go buy compost, plant some seeds,

they will have food. It's really that simple, honestly. Like if you have a thick enough layer of good compost, like you're good to go, just keep adding. But creating like a permaculture system requires you to make mistakes and remedy them and change your plants. And so just the very slow

pace of the first year, enjoying it every step of the way, and trying not to be stressed about anything was like my first goal, just super low time preference, like wash these wood chips breakdown, you know, create compost piles that work, grow my worms out, you know, I started with like $200

with worms, and now I have probably like, you know, probably like $5,000 worth of worms, right? So I could have started with more and I would have more, but low time preference, man, you know, that's, that's really my, my goal here is to show with how little, how much you can make, right? So my,

my first real goal is to get the field in the production mode where I at least have like a quarter acre that's fully just rolling. And when I say rolling, you should never have your garden beds just empty. There should always be some biological process like happening in your soil. So it should

be planted like 100% of the time. And then in winter, even it can be fully planted. And in beds that you don't want to grow in the winter, if you don't want to grow that winter and you want to go on a vacation or whatever. So you mulch it, right, you mulch it with either wood chips or multiple

things, come free, different interesting plants that you can use in that sense. But yeah, the whole idea is to like teach my girlfriend enough gardening skills where I can not worry about like actually producing the actual planting of everything. And I can just maintain, right, and do all the heavy

lifting on the farm. So that's a journey, you know, to should enjoy it. I mean, it sounds like you're lucky that you have a girlfriend who's willing to do this kind of stuff. Like that's the dream, right? To have have a couple who work together and make their own produce and, and build from the

ground up. Was she always into this kind of stuff? Or is she just like recently getting into it? So I think like she's like many others who nostalgically or romanticize the idea of farming or living on a farm or just growing their own food. And when we met, I had like a smaller garden where I was

staying and I tested her out, man. I was like, Hey, we're going to garden today. And she was super excited. And when I tried to like show her things, she's like, I'm doing it my own way. And I was like, cool. Like that shows that she wants to do it. You know, other people that don't care like,

Hey, I just show me, you know, and I've worked on enough arms where I was like, okay, she really wants to, to at least try, right? And I just met this girl. Like, when I convinced her to move with me over here, I was like, look, I'm not going to date you in a city. I don't plan on living in a

city. If you want to take a leap of faith, like, let's do it. You know, and she was just like, nodding her head, yes, the whole time I was asking the question. So two years later, you know, we found this place together. And the rest is history, man. It's working really well.

That's fucking cool. That's really cool. I'm lucky though. I feel blessed, man. I mean, I do like, I'm not going to tell you that it's easy. I'm not going to tell you that, you know, relationships are easy and working with your partners. Definitely not easy. And that's why I'm

trying to like release all the control. And if mistakes happen, so be it, dude, like, I'm low time preference enough where I can take a bunch of else, you know, I love it. Well, listen, I try and keep these two, you know, under an hour and a half. I've

waffled on and this we've gone off topic quite a lot. But I really enjoyed it. Like, I kind of thought, Oh, we're just literally going to talk about the produce and bits and pieces. But we've gone off on so many tangents. And it's been really nice to get to know you. And this is the reason

these spaces are so important, because, you know, we might never have spoken otherwise. And I'm very, very glad we have. So, you know, thanks for coming on and sharing all of this with me and the listeners. And we definitely have to do this again. And hopefully, yeah, continue the

conversation. Well, 100% brother and actually it's interesting because I don't listen to podcasts. And X 21 puts up on his Twitter. He's like, Hey, if you haven't listened to the bit by bit podcasts, well, then you're a fucking idiot. And I was like, I guess I'm a fucking idiot.

That's very X 21. Yeah. And he sends me a list to listen to. And I'm out there cutting my grass. And I'm like, these are my people. And then I see you in the spaces. And you know, here we are.

That's cool. I'm sure I'll meet you in person too. You know, so I hope so. I hope so. Yeah. Well, thanks so much. Thanks, X 21 for sharing that. We wouldn't be having the conversation otherwise.

But yeah, it's been awesome. And we wouldn't. It's been really cool. And yeah, if you are about on the 21st, let's has continued the conversation. And my mind's already ticking with some of the stuff we talked about. But yeah, I've really enjoyed it. And I hope we speak soon.

100% brother. Thanks for having me on. Cheers, mate.