Growing Bitcoin with hashmoney @noncensical

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.

Let's go!

Now, what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison. Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right, you ungovernable misfits. I'm your host, Max. Everybody knows that Bitcoin is useless, worthless, and doomed to fail. But what if everyone's wrong? What if it's the system that is doomed to fail?

Join me as I speak to some of the brightest people in the space and slither to the deepest, darkest depths of the Bitcoin rabbit hole.

Welcome back to Bit by Bit. In today's episode, I speak to #Money@non-sensical on Twitter. We talked about what's going on in South Africa. We talked about alternative uses for energy and how to produce it.

And we talked about mining. It was a really, really cool episode. I very much enjoyed it. Although we had massive technical issues, literally the whole way through, you hopefully won't hear any of them.

I spent a lot of time editing and fucking around with it. So, yeah, my Edison skills are just phenomenal. Sound quality, also not that great. I really don't know what was going on with the recording.

I think, because it cut out so many times, we ended up on a standard mic rather than what I normally use. So, yeah, anyway, I think it's worth listening to, and I really enjoyed speaking to him.

I think he needs to go on more shows and then get this idea out there. I think it's a good one. Before we jump in, I want to just say thanks to Coin Floor UK for sponsoring the show. If you're in the UK and you're looking to buy daily, weekly or monthly, you can do that using their new app.

And also, if you use the link in the show notes, then you'll get 30% discount off your fees. Next, I want to say thank you to Crypto Clokes. They're my new sponsors. They are doing incredible things.

They're a Bitcoin only company, 3D printing, all the things you could ever want need for Bitcoin. And if you haven't checked them out already, I strongly suggest you do at cryptoclokes.com.

Enjoy the show, and if anyone after listening to this has any ideas, has any ways that they can help hash money, either getting contact with him or getting contact with me because the more clubs we can get mining, the more hash power we can get on this network, the better.

And as we discussed in this episode, it's the only way out. We better fucking start moving. We better start fighting. We can't lose this battle. So everyone worked together, please. And if you can get hold of hardware, if you have some engineering skills that he might need, basically being help in any way, get in contact.

And let's do this. Enjoy the show. Hash money, how are you doing? Evening, Max. Can you hear me, OK? Can you hear me? I can hear you perfectly, sir. Yep. Yeah. I can hear you now. I can hear you now.

It's coming through. How are you? Good and new. Yeah, very, very well. It's stinking hot over here. But other than that, it's all good. Things are a bit crazy where you are. What is going on?

It looks absolute madness. Well, what I can say is, South Africa has just sloughed through its first coup attempt. It's been called a few different things. Insurrection, domestic terrorism, a few different names.

But what it looks like is a coup attempt from forces loyal to the former president Jacob Zuma, who, of course, is sitting in prison at the moment for corruption, while contempt of court. Fuck.

And you're sort of in the think of it, are you? Yeah, well, you know, I grew up in one of the poor communities in Durban, Kozilin Tell. And sort of, as I got educated and started my career, sort of moved out of that area.

But this, when this bullshit started happening, these forces started attacking the residential areas that were close to them, which are the poor communities. And yeah, man, it just meant it helped out my old name of our buddies.

I think, yeah, I think what these people weren't expecting was local communities to be packing heavy artillery. And when I say heavy artillery, I mean, like Texan style, ordinary people with automatic weapons and ammunition belts.

And so when they went into these areas, they sort of got the shock of their lives. And quite a few people actually died because they went in Kamikaze style. And yeah, the neighborhoods were having it.

They just let them eat lead. That was it. It just shows how important gun rights are. And being able to protect yourself and arm yourself, if needs be. You know, I come from a place where, granted, it's statistically way, way, way safer.

And we don't see a massive amount of gun or knife violence, or at least it's not put on the news. We have quite a knife problem here. But we don't have the ability to protect ourselves if it all goes tits up.

And that's one thing that I think is really important, especially you see it in Texas. Like, I don't know whether that's why they seem to be more chilled because they know they're armed or what it is.

But it feels like it's very important right for people to have to protect themselves and their families. I totally agree. You know, I don't think there should be a law that says one group of people, no matter if they're the government or not, should have access to these weapons.

And then another group, be it the civilians, shouldn't. Because you're automatically creating that asymmetry and leaving the door open for these sort of shenanigans to happen. As soon as you have equal firepower on both sides of the economic scale, you sort of have to put the guns on and actually talk through your problems.

If you have the asymmetry on gunpowder as a technology to a certain group of people over another, it always ends in tears from what I can see throughout history. Yeah, exactly that. And you're talking about asymmetry.

That's one thing that's so special with Bitcoin is no matter how much power these people have or how much they want to yield, how many guns, how many men in their military, they can't fuck with maths and they can't fuck with this system, which is something that really excites me.

And I can imagine seeing what you're seeing. There's never really been a need for this more in history. So how did you come about finding Bitcoin and what led you down this path? We're going to get into what you're doing.

But how did you find it in the first place? I find it like most people find it. I just want to have some of the DJ and action of the price going up, to be honest. I saw it in 2015. I heard about it in 2015.

And I sort of dismissed it as nerd money. Someone's invented a lay mass internet money and dismissed it. And then it touched me again in 2017. The price went through $1,000. And I said, whoa, this thing hasn't died.

It's $1,000. I looked at the price history chart and I was like, no, I better get some action here. And by the end of the day, I was signed up to my local exchange and I was burning fear buying coins.

And of course, I did that all the way through 2017. Hit December 2017 and I had the Lamborghini keys in my eyes. And we were all going to Monaco and everything. And the thing just crashed.

I had no idea of market structures and four-year cycles and harvings. I couldn't care less. All I know is I bought a ticket to the moon and I was on the rocket ship. That's all I cared about.

And as she started falling in January, of course, I must say I also went through a shit coin phase. I had every shit coin under the sun. What's your most embarrassing shit coin looking back now?

We've all done it. Or what's the most stupid one you had? I had the end to coin. Ah, that's world class. That is world class. That's top tier. I was like, we're going to decentralize teeth, yo.

That's the shit. I love it. Yeah, I had some fucking stupid ones as well. Morning. We all fall for it. We all fall for it. No one gets away. So you see this thing crashing. You're thinking, oh, shit.

Yeah. I better start learning. I'm guessing. That's it. I had two choices. Well, I was too slow. I couldn't get my money out and get the account verified with the bank and the tax and all of it.

It just moved too quickly in January 2018. It fell too fast. And I was like, oh, shit, OK. So I either sell all this stuff at what's looking like a horrible-- not a horrible loss. So I was still probably 3x up at $3,000 on my first buy.

But I was like, surely, this thing hasn't died since 2009. And something must be here. And so I just absorbed down the rabbit hole and started learning and haven't stopped learning since.

I actually ended up getting a MSC in digital currency from the University of Nicosia, Cyprus. Not out of to credentialize myself or anything, just from a sheer thirst of knowledge. Because geez, Bitcoin is tough to keep up with it.

You can't keep up with it. The tech is moving so quickly. It's literally impossible. I've come to realize it's too much. And it's only accelerating. If you think back a couple of years ago, think back to 2017, 2018, you could sort of keep up with the podcast.

You could sort of keep up with some of the developments to some extent. But now, fuck it, it is literally it as impossible. It's fucking ridiculous, man. I'm borderline going to get a divorce because of Bitcoin.

Well, my wife, it's like coming into our marital argument. She's like, oh, you fucking talk about it as a stupid Bitcoin. Yeah, but that's what's going to get us out of the shit. And last week, I was like, ha, you see, these motherfuckers are burning down everything in their site.

And guess what? They can't burn down the Bitcoin building. And then she was like, oh shit, you're right. Like, yeah, exactly. Your orange pulled her. She's been orange pulled properly after this.

Well, it wasn't me. It was the looters in South Africa. But, you know, of course, if you get to anybody who gets their wife to listen to them on the first try about Bitcoin, geez, I need to meet that dude.

Yeah, my journey was very, very similar. It was a cause of a lot of annoyance. She was just like, well, you know, I trust you. You can do what you like. But can you please just shut the fuck up about it sometimes?

Exactly. It's hard, though, isn't it? Like, it's hard to keep quiet when it's blowing your mind every day. And you're just so excited about this thing. And it's like, it's almost impossible to shut up.

Yeah, once you see, you can't unsee. That's the thing. Once you-- it also opens your eyes up to a lot of the bullshit that's happening around the world with politicians. And power structures and how the whole thing is structured.

Like before Bitcoin, I never really understood why these people were in the power places they were. But now, once I started learning about the magic money printer and those that are close to it always seem to retain the power in the world, it starts making a lot of sense, a lot of things that we see in the world today.

Yeah, just very, very bullish, very, very excited about Bitcoin, what it means for humanity. Number go up, technology is awesome. Getting fucking rich is awesome. But what the problems it solves is more what I find fascinating.

It keeps me up at night and me watching YouTube and listening to podcasts till early hours in the morning. That's what drives it. It's hope, I think, to a lot of us. We're starting to see these power structures.

We're starting to see these hierarchical systems fail and failing in a big way. You're seeing governments turn more and more tyrannical as they fill the power, loosen out of their grips. And the things that we're seeing around the world, it only highlights the need for Bitcoin.

You know, there's a million reasons why it's so necessary. But if ever people are going to wake up to this, I think it's going to be now. I think it's the perfect time and also the clock is ticking.

We're getting to that and now they fight us stage. They're starting to bite back. Oh, totally, they will blame Bitcoin. When the current system breaks spectacularly, the one thing governments are really good at is finding somebody else to blame, except themselves.

And they will blame Bitcoin. They will say that somebody hacked our monetary system and now everybody took the money into Bitcoin. And that's why the world's broke. They will say that because they have no other option, right?

What else did they say? Oh, we were sorry, we were irresponsible and we printed the fuck out of our currency and now you need a million dollars for a loaf of bread. Sorry, they're not going to say that.

No, that would be the honest, genuine thing to do. And actually, funnily enough, is the only thing that would ever make me respect someone is when they do make a mistake and they do admit it.

But like you say, they will never do that because they have no morals. And what's concerning is the people around me, like, I speak to Bitcoiners every day. I'm a very privileged position where I get to have these sort of conversations from people all around the world.

And one thing that I've noticed, there's a very, very common theme, which is people have personal responsibility. People work really fucking hard and people are generally very kind and giving with their time to other people they feel deserving of it.

And it's a stark contrast to the way of these politicians and the way of these bankers, which is just take, take, take, take, take, take. They fuck everyone over, take as much as they can, as quickly as they can.

And they're not building long-term communities and friendships. And I think that's one of the reasons why I'm sorry, the bullish of Bitcoin is not just the fact that this monetary system is so beautifully designed, but also just the people that I get to speak to are fucking phenomenal.

Like, you know, you got something at Africa, like Craig Raw, I had on a couple of days ago, Sparrow Wallet, like that guy's a fucking boss doing some incredible stuff. And yeah, it fires me up knowing that we have people who are pushing the space forward.

And from the sounds of things, we haven't spoken before, but from my little understanding of what you are doing, it's really fucking exciting. So can we dive in a little bit and talk about what your plans are because it sounds fascinating?

- Yeah, sure. I just want to touch quickly on the subject of people. And to me, that's one of the most fascinating aspects of Bitcoin is how it selects people to work for it. To me, this, to me, what I'm looking at is the world's first implementation of artificial intelligence at scale.

Nobody's in charge of this thing. It's selecting people to work for it. It's selecting people to build electrical infrastructure to power it. It's selecting people to improve its code that from all over the world, it doesn't matter who they are, what language they speak.

They all speak with coin. This is amazing to me as an engineer. And maybe I can dive into my background now. I basically studied chemical engineering at university for a degree. And I went headlong into the energy industry about 10 years ago.

And I've been building manufacturing plants and energy power plants since then. Basically, what I'm working on at the moment, I work in the pop and paper industry at the moment. I work for multinational and I build factories for them.

We currently own, we're the biggest private land owner in South Africa and that comprises of forests. Our manufacturing plants have the technology to generate electricity from Lignon. Now, if you understand what Lignon is, Lignon is a glue that holds the fibers of a tree together on a microscopic level.

So what we're able to do is we extract the Lignon and the fiber we separated and we sell the fiber in the form of products such as paper or tissue or cellulose pulp that goes into cigarette filters and pharmaceuticals amongst other products.

But the Lignon, we fire it in boilers to generate steam which drives turbines and of course, turbines create electricity. The thing is, our plants are energy self-sufficient, which means we generate more energy from the Lignon than we need to make our products.

So a lot of our plants actually sell electricity into the national energy grids of where we operate. I mentioned we're a multinational, so we operate in Southern Africa, North America and Europe.

So basically, wherever our sites are energy positive, we wield that electricity into the national grid at very low rates. I mean, we don't get paid a lot of money for that electricity. So what I'm proposing is very simple really is strapping a Bitcoin mine on the back end of our factories, Bitcoin mining equipment in order to harness

that excess electricity and provide security to the network. And in the process, mine some Bitcoins for our company which we could either sell on to pay the bulls or keep all the coins or do a combination thereof in order to grow a balance sheet.

The thing is, in South Africa, a treaty grows from seedling to fully harvestable height in about nine years. In Europe, it takes about 27 years to 30 years. So in effect, we've got a completely renewable resource that not only pulls CO2 out of the atmosphere when the tree is actually in the forest,

but then once we process it and release the energy from the lignon could also power the Bitcoin network. So that's sort of what I'm working on at the moment. My biggest issue is being able to articulate it to over 60 year old managers.

They kind of look at me like I'm insane when I tell this to them, but yeah, I'm working on it. I'm working on the energy and mass balance. I've got to put the numbers down. - It's a different language.

- Yeah, they don't understand what I'm talking about. They can see the eyes glaze over and this kid's crazy and those thoughts are going through their head. - Of course. So as a Bitcoin understanding what you're proposing sounds like the most solid and logical plan I've heard in a long time to be setting some miners up

and you've got excess energy that would otherwise get fuck off or pumping back into the grid. These miners are going to sort of find their way to the cheapest energy around the world. It's just naturally, you're talking about this thing as an organism that is taking control of people and having them work for it.

That makes a lot of sense, I completely agree with you and it's also going to just seek out the cheapest energy on the planet in places which are otherwise either inaccessible or the power that they'd pump back would be not worth doing.

And so it makes so much sense. I think once you get those numbers down and you show them how much better off they will be, I think you're going to be starting to orange pill some of these 60 year olds.

It might take some time and you might have to use some wanky language and you're going to have to maybe pussyfoot around a little bit because they're going to want to hear things in a certain way, but fuck, it sounds incredible, mate.

That's very, very exciting. - Yeah, so just some preliminary numbers. Our grid is buying the electricity at the moment from our company at around seven US cents per kilowatt hour. Then Bitcoin is currently buys electricity at about 40 US cents per kilowatt hour last time I checked.

So the difference in the delta in money, just share money making, even if you're confident fiat terms is huge. The issues coming in, what I'm finding is a serious socialist agenda coming into multinationals at the moment.

This ESG narrative and Bitcoin and Mr Musk hasn't helped either in this regard. He's painted it as sort of a waste of electricity. So why are we using this much energy on Bitcoin? That question seems to be in a lot of people's minds,

but I think they are assuming that the energy that is used to secure the Bitcoin network is a waste, like Bitcoin is some sort of a toy or a little joke. I don't think they realize that this thing is using 0.1% of the world's available energy and securing at its peak price a trillion dollars in value.

And more than 50% of that 0.1% of the world's energy comes from renewable resources. It is the most green, call it green slash renewable industry on the planet as it stands and it's getting greener.

Some of the people cannot see it and I think some of the people can completely see it, but they know that this threatens them. And so they're being disingenuous. They are spreading fake news to try and shut us up, basically, because they know that if this thing works and I'm very sure that it will, it's gonna take their power away

and that scares the hell out of them. So we're in a war of ideas, we're in a war where we have to wake the rest of the world up and fight our corner in a smart way. And as much as I disagree with ESG and all that sort of stuff, and I do think it's dangerous with this stuff creeping in, we have to be sharing and explaining

as much as we can that this is green and that this is not only green, but it's gonna save so many lives and allow humans to flourish in ways never imagined before. And once that gets out to the general public, once they can wrap their head around this in a more simplified way, it's game over, like these people are fucked.

How do you think about trying to explain this to the people within your business and get away from this sort of bullshit narrative that we're gonna destroy the planet? For me, I'm gonna try and discredit all these sort of pseudo-green projects.

For example, solar project, that's a scam, right? Because all the proponents of solar projects, they never count the carbon that's used in the production process of actually building the solar panels, shipping the solar panels, all the people that need to go to the factory to build solar panels, that's never ever factored in.

And if you had to add that carbon bowl to a solar panel project, it would take hundreds of years to pay back. Same thing with a wind turbine project, the carbon that it takes to produce these things and get them to where they're effective is huge.

The carbon bowlers is crazy, they'd never pay back. So I would detect the carbon credit as a shit coin. It's the ultimate shit coin because it's based on fiat and it's being used to justify projects that wouldn't otherwise be profitable.

Whereas the Bitcoin network doesn't understand carbon credit shit coins. You either make money according to the rules of the network or you don't, right? So it chooses the cheapest energy and in general, the cheapest energy is the energy that you need to spend the least carbon to liberate.

That's the carbon you need to count. How much carbon are you spending to liberate that energy? For example, coal, right? Everybody hates coal, coal's dirty, coal's bad, right? But you don't have to do anything else to coal once you dig out the ground.

You literally dig out the ground and you liberate the energy by burning it. It doesn't take any more energy. Batteries, for example, musks, cars, horrible things. You've got to strip mine the Congo, get the lithium, ship it to China, manufacture the batteries, manufacture the batteries back to Los Angeles,

mold the car, then once you've got the car on the road, you've still got to plug it into the electrical grid to charge it. Every time you want to use it, this is horribly inefficient. And the only reason why the electric car works at the moment is because of carbon credits.

And how do you create the carbon credit? You just print it. It's a complete scam. So I would be, I would start by attacking those projects within my own company. For example, if I see some other executive pushing a solar project, I'd attack it vehemently and I would discredit it as much as humanly possible based on that.

I think just crediting these other projects, these other things that make no sense when you look into them, it's really important because, you know, I think it's very easy to fall for it.

It's very easy for it to be romanticized. It's like, oh, yeah, you know, it's just electric going in here and there's no emissions. There's nothing coming out the back of the car. There's no dirty, no dirty emissions when you're driving.

And it's like, yeah, you're not seeing everything before it. And like you were saying, once you've got the cobalt and you're then chipping it over to China and then you're getting those batteries built and then you're shipping them somewhere else, it's like all of this stuff is horrible, horrible, horrible for the environment.

And then I guess what do you do when the car is scrapped? Like I can't imagine the batteries are particularly good when they go on a scrappy. Now it takes more electricity to dispose of them properly.

It just keeps sucking in energy. It's the most energy inefficient technology I've ever seen. They've actually powered cars. They've been invented for 100 years and that's why they've never taken off because the energy balance doesn't work.

Simple thing of making the energy balance work where you liberate more energy than you put into something to make it worthwhile is a non-starter and electric cars. That's why they only work with carbon credits.

- Yes, like you said, it's so important then for us to refine these ideas and to mean them into people's heads because it's gonna take a lot to back pedal because people are so sure of some of these ideas.

And you're mentioning this kind of socialist tendencies and we've got the same over here. We've got a lot of champagne socialists, people with wealth who have had no hardship pushing kind of basically Marxist ideas these days.

I don't think they realize how fucking dangerous it is and just quite how this all ends if they were to win. And so it seems sometimes it feels sometimes like it is kind of Bitcoiners against the world.

It really does. - It does feel like that. - You know, something that I've realized recently is what these, I call it the power socialists, what they don't realize they're doing is they've used the earth and the cheapest, most powerful energy known to men which I believe is called to basically drive their wealth

over the 20th century to levels that are astronomical. And now suddenly what they're doing is they're saying, they're pulling up the ladder, right, after they've got up the wall. They're saying, sorry, you can't use the same tool to pull yourself out of poverty because X, Y and Z and we have to save the dolphins, right?

What they don't realize is they're telling that to five billion people who are living in poverty. And we've seen that on a micro scale in South Africa. At some point they don't listen and they don't care about your scam narrative.

And they just, they basically loot your store and burn it out. That's kind of what happens. My worry is what happens if they win and this actually happens? What will you have to do to keep those masses under control?

Will you have to go to drone warfare where you commit heinous crimes along the people of lower economic station to you to maintain the status quo? Or how does it look like? It's this dystopian future that fear terribly.

And I only see Bitcoin as hope. The technology that allows the simple man to save his little bit of money and have it not stolen from him by oligarchs. This is technology in the world needs.

It's such a beautiful design and the incentives set up in such a way that once people are on board with it, they'll do anything to, especially when someone really understands it, they'll do anything to protect it.

You know, you hear a lot, I will die on this hill. And that's true for a lot of us. Like it really is to the point where we're saying, we'll die for this technology. Like we know that if this doesn't fucking work, this dystopian future that you were just painting with drones and having to manage populations,

it is the future that will happen, is the future for our children. And so fuck that. - Fuck that shit. - Exactly, fuck that shit. That's fine, let's go to war. You think the war is being fought on the ground.

It's not, it's being fought in cyberspace. And we have our fucking timestamp server that's immutable. What do you have? That's our weapon, it's a weapon of truth. - Yeah, exactly that, you know, as an organism, one thing I've noticed it's very, very good at, is selecting particularly smart and tough people.

It's people who really fucking need it and have had hardship and have seen the world for what it is. They have their eyes open, they're attracted to this first. They're pulled in first and they've become obsessed with it.

And so it's got an army that are militant and they're very, very fucking smart. I wouldn't want to be on the other side of it. - Yeah, it's always like that though. And I noticed that a lot, just from simple things that I observe in the world, for example, we have a big Muslim community where we live.

And you see it in like a new grocery store open up on the corner, right? And because there's a few Muslim people that live in that area, they have to stock halal food in that store. And you see the stores that don't do that and they just wane, they don't succeed.

And the stores that do bend to the intolerant minority flourish. So you just need an intolerant minority that sticks to their principles no matter what for an idea to the introduction because if they, what they're saying is right, it will, the signal will go to the rest of the people.

And Bitcoin is a very unique technology in that it uses speculation and price to transmitted signal of what it does to people. Nobody understands, will understand something or want to understand something more than if it makes them wealthier.

This is a secret weapon, I like to call it. It bootstraps itself by making the holders and the people that work on it wealthier. - It seems as well, it's not just to make people wealthier like anything else, it is specifically people who really fucking need this for survival a lot of the time.

And it might be because of their line of work and they're cut off from any other systems or it might be literally out of desperation where they are in a situation where their currencies are being devalued so quickly or they have to have something that can't be stolen from them and survival really, it makes you want to learn

very, very quickly. What's quite nice is that the fat cats, the people who have got it really fucking easy have been leaching off society for such a long time. They're comfy, they're not scrabbling, they're not spending 16 hours a day, seven days a week for years and years to research this thing and learn this thing,

which is so fucking complicated and multidisciplinary. They are sipping on champagne and fucking hookers. They're not going to get this as quickly and that puts them at a disadvantage. - I totally agree with that.

It's the red codes marching into the gorilla attack, right? You're not going to see this coming simply because of your position of power and your dismissal of it. It's being underestimated just how disruptive the technology is to the status quo.

For example, the ability to not steal a person's time through inflation. This is something that's not, I believe it's not fully understood by the powers that be and it's being wholly underestimated.

You do see a few people come out strongly against it, people in power, people like that Senator in the United States, I think it's named Brad Sherman, you mentioned him before. - Oh, fucking lovely bloke.

- What a dickhead, right, a bunch of fuck. But he sees it, right? He sees it. He's obviously a very attentive guy and a very smart person. The thing is he's on the wrong side, but it also works against him because his cohorts just don't give a shit, right?

They're like, what are you talking about? What Bitcoin is going to take over the US dollar? Brad's fucking lost it, right? That's what they're thinking. But he sees it and he's on the wrong side, which is fascinating to watch.

- There's a lot of them who do see it and they're starting to fight back. I'm seeing it in the UK. They are really tightening up on regulation here. They're really trying to lock things down.

I can smell fear, I can smell it. I know that these people, there are souls are starting to twitch because they're starting to wake up. It's only a small proportion of them. And like you say, most of their peers are sort of thinking you fucking lunatic as if something so small and with a load of plebs

behind it is going to take over something that we've established over centuries and we have the full force of our militaries behind us. Well, yeah, they do not understand that, like you said, this is full in cyberspace and it's the way the world is going and they can throw all their might at it, but it doesn't stop it

with people wanting to stall their wealth. What I've realized coming into Bitcoin is in property previously. Am I concerned with any sort of money? Was always I never trust the government?

Well, what do I do? Where do I store something where it doesn't get stolen from me? And I always thought, well, bricks and mortar are going to be pretty good because at least I have somewhere to put my head down if needs be and it's generally historically it's solid.

What you start to realize is well, you don't really own that thing because if you piss off someone who's in authority, they can make your life impossible and they can take your assets from you.

They can do it with a stroke of a pen with Bitcoin, fucking good luck. Yeah. Well, what made me realize this was after learning about the private key, public key relationship and how that actually secures your access to your Bitcoin on the blockchain.

When I took that model and applied it to my property, I was basically a diligent person. I used to pay extra money onto my home loan in order to make the interest payments lower over the term and have equity in my home loan like a good little servant person.

And once I realized this that exactly what you just said, holy shit, if these people decide to rewrite the record in the deeds office or maybe not today, maybe in 30 years time, the people that are in charge won't be as accommodating to my investments as the people that I charge today.

Maybe they would wanna rewrite the deeds, the title deed office in their favor and maybe I will not own this property when I need it in my old age. I went to the bank, I accessed every single last fucking penny of equity in that home loan and I speculative attacked the shit out of that home loan.

And I got my coins. I am what you call all fucking in on Bitcoin. I have zero fiat left. My fiat bank account is running on a negative balance as far as the bank will allow me and I'm stacking sets as hard as humanly possible.

Every dip is a godsend, every dip is a godsend to me. - That's good to hear. I mean, to most people, that sounds fucking crazy. They would say you're a lunatic, you're a responsible, that's mental, this is highly speculative.

For me listening to that, I'm going this low 'cause I made the best fucking decision I've heard. And I've done the same. Like I've sold off all my property, I've sold off all my possessions.

Everything has been piled into this thing. Everything that I can earn goes into this thing. And if you just said that to me five years ago, I'd have laughed in your face, I'd have said fuck off, everything will stay in property, it's solid.

But it gives you not only an asset that I'm very sure is gonna become more valuable, but it also gives you this peace of mind, which is if things go really, really bad in my country, if I have to flee, if I have to leave, I can leave with all my wealth.

With what we're seeing going on in the world now, it seems that that is a feature that is so valuable that even without the fact that we've got the number go up technology and we've got everything else going for it, even just that, it would be worth it.

- Exactly. Watching commercial property go up in flames on live television over the last week in South Africa, that has become the number one use case of Bitcoin for everybody in South Africa, that's what I can see.

If you own terrestrial and come with property in South Africa, and you have equity in the property and you own zero Bitcoin, you are horribly positioned because people will come over the fence, burn it down, and there's not a fucking thing the government will do about it because they don't give a shit.

That's, and that's not theory, that's reality. - We're literally watching it play out. - Yeah, I mean, do you find then that there are more South Africans who get it than a lot of other places, like, do you feel that, like, if you say to someone, you know, this is something where the government

can't steal your wealth, where no one can take it from you, that they see the value in it, or do you still watch most people's highs glaze over and just think you're a lunatic? - Now, most people think I'm lunatic, to be honest.

(laughing) They don't understand, it's such a, as you said, it's such a multi-disciplinary, difficult, abstract concept that takes so many hours to fully grasp. Most people are just too fucking lazy and couldn't bother to do the work, to be honest.

It's easy, they understand to buy a house and keep that property in time, it will appreciate it value. It's a simple concept to understand. Blockchain technology, and harvings, and difficulty adjustment, and the mining network, and it's just Star Trek, man.

It's just fucking Star Trek, be me up, Scott, do you know what he wants and do you anymore? - Hmm, yeah, it is alien. Do you have any like theories on, you know, you hear theories on people going, oh well, you know, this is alien technology, like literally, I'm not sure about that,

but I kind of have this theory that this is almost nature, just going, listen, you stupid fucks, you're gonna destroy yourselves here, you need to do better, and it is just sort of like an emergent thing.

You know, you hear people talk about mycelium and the similarities there. It is a network that is growing and taking control of people's minds and building out, and as far as I can see, and it sounds like you strongly would agree with me, is that this is gonna be the most efficient, fastest,

most peaceful way of making humanity sort itself out. Do you think that it could be, in some way, like nature fighting back? - I think there is definitely an aspect of that, because I think human beings, as much as we'd like to believe that we're above nature, we are inherently part of it.

And I do believe that it was human beings that actually created the coin, and I think it was pushback from the current system, the inequality of the 20th century, I mean, you look at the number of wars, the amount of capital that I spent on, just fucking blowing each other up to the point of almost erasing the human race

from the planet, you know? It's just nature fighting back through humans, a certain group of humans have fought back, and they have combined a whole lot of technologies and put them together to form this thing, similar to other technologies, like a car.

You need a whole lot of individual technologies to come together to make a proper car. You need petroleum, you need metal forming, you need tire technology, you need glass forming technology.

There's probably a thousand separate technologies, but when combined in the correct way, unlock something that changes the world. And sort of that, I think that's what's happened here. It's genius and it's mind blowing, no matter how much time you spend on it, and what you're saying about it's difficult for people

to be bothered to spend the time on it. I don't think it can be overstated quite how much time it takes for people to wrap their head around this. I've spent tens of thousands of hours, I spent literally from the day I started learning about it, I dropped everything else, brought my job, left fucking doing everything,

I just do this all day, every day, seven days a week, I can't think about anything else. And that seems like it's the same with so many people. It maybe takes people who are a little bit fucking obsessive as well to be bothered to do this, they have to have a certain personality trait, and also maybe a bit of a rebellious streak

where they don't trust anything that's going on around them, they have this feeling that it's like, "Yeah, something's off here, you know, "I can't fully put my finger on it, "but I know something's off."

And once you start peeling about the layers on this, you're like, "Ah, oh, everything's fucked." Yeah, everything was a lie. - Oh, yeah, we've been getting scammed since the beginning, have we?

This is how they've been doing it, fuck. Oh, they can just edit their bank account when they make shit decisions. Oh, I didn't know that. And, yeah, tell me the truth. I had no interest in money as a technology before Bitcoin.

I knew that I went to work, and for my work, I got paid a certain amount of currency, and then I paid bulls, I bought myself food, and then I saved a little bit of money after that. That was my understanding of money.

Money as a technology was lost on me before Bitcoin. And what it did is it just sparked this curious part of my brain to start questioning things and finding out the truth. And, "Oh, is this actually how it works?"

You know the saying, "Don't trust verify." That's where it comes from. It comes from the Bitcoin network itself. It makes you stop trusting. It makes you start verifying. This is the part of it that has these people in power shook, because every time you try and verify things that they say or things that they do,

you just end up with bullshit over and over again. And I keep going back to my node to verify the truth of my money, and I feel more and more trusting. Well, not trusting, but I feel more assured and comfortable that that's the truth.

And I don't know how many rams they are in the world, that's for sure. (laughs) - Do you get into the techy side as well? I mean, I imagine given your job, you're a pretty technical guy, you get into building the nodes and building hardware and fucking around with the tech, or are you more focused on the economic side?

- To be honest, I'm not very much a computer hardware type of dude, I'm more a manufacturing plant, turbine, steam lines, electrical substations. That's my stuff. So for me, I watch the hash rate.

That's the most important metric I watch. I do believe hash rate needs price. I do believe it's the single most important metric for Bitcoin and the success of Bitcoin. As we saw with the Chinese migration recently, that's another way that the network sort of defends itself.

Not only is it seeking out the right type of people to work on it, it's seeking out the correct, or not the correct of more favorable political jurisdictions to allow it to absorb more energy, more electricity.

So China banning Bitcoin mining, right? The fact that those ASIC machines can do only one thing. They can only mine Bitcoin. They can't be repurposed to do anything else. That in itself, that simple small design feature means that the people that have spent capital in buying those machines are forced,

are incentivized to take those machines, pack them up, move them to a more favorable political jurisdiction, and re-plug them into the Bitcoin network and nothing else. It is secured, it's own capital.

This is the amazing thing to me. So for me, the hash power is the most important thing, and that's where I am focusing my small contribution to the network. - It sounds like you are perfectly positioned to bring some hash online, and it sounds like you have the technical expertise to understand this stuff and to build this stuff,

because obviously building the infrastructure is incredibly important. And so, is there any parts of this where you want anyone to reach out to you? Have you got things sorted in terms of finding the A6?

Have you got those relationships sorted? Or are there any parts where anyone listening to this might go, oh, this sounds fucking awesome. If I can help, I will, 'cause the plebs are all here to help each other.

Is there anyone who could help this get off the ground in any way? - Yeah, for me, the biggest issue would be to get a mining rigs sorted out. I don't know how to put the mining rigs together.

That's what I don't understand. I understand how to make the energy side work where you can have electricity available to plug it in. But actually, I'm not an IT dude, you know what I mean?

I don't know how to daisy chain these things together, and if something breaks in there, I'm not gonna understand how to fix it. I'm a heavy industry guy. I'm not a light industry dude. Heavy industry, big machinery, big turbines, large, high-pressure steam, that kind of stuff.

That's my expertise. So if this is South African or anybody else that can preach out and help, that'll be really useful. Other than that, I'm also working on a project where one of our factories in the Northern Hemisphere is in a cold climate.

So we spend a lot of electricity on heating, the entire factory, the entire factory's enclosed in the warehouse and it's heated. So we put energy in to heat the place up. So one of my ideas would be to actually run Bitcoin mines and the heat that's rejected off the miners, use that to heat the space under the warehouse.

And that's probably something that could be done anywhere that needs space heating. So basically, if you are using electricity to heat your hotel up or you're building up, straps of miners in, use the electricity to mine Bitcoin and then the heat that's rejected off the miners, use that to heat your space.

That's not gonna get more green than that. - Yeah, it's the ideal use case and I see this happening more and more, especially as these basics can stay online for longer, as these chips become more efficient and we do sort of get to a point where they don't, you know, a new model won't replace it

every six months, it's gonna be every couple of years or so. Then these things are gonna start to make sense and people are spending a lot of money cooling these machines down in certain areas or venting out the heat because they wanna be running cold.

It makes so much sense to be doing it and there's so many applications for it. There's so many different things where, you know, people spend an absolute fortune on heating swimming pools or nursing homes or like you said, you know, spaceses as in warehouses and stuff like that.

Changes the dynamics of it so much because it's not all about how cheap can you get the electric. It's actually, well, you know, I'm gonna be spending the money on heating it anyway so you can discount that off the electric price and then it brings more and more people the ability

to play this game because they would be priced out otherwise. But if they're just smart and do things that way, then it definitely decentralizes things. - Yeah, that's, I totally agree. And one step further on that, I like to think of Bitcoin as an economic battery.

And the reason I say that is, say you have a manufacturing company, right? Making some arbitrary product. Say they make a certain brand of chocolates or sweets or candy, right? And somehow something has gone wrong with their market and they have all this electrical capacity, energy capacity to do their normal operations,

but their downstream market falls away for some reason, either through seasonality or their target market goes into a war or something crazy like that happens. - Well, these lockdowns are a perfect example.

- Yeah, say lockdowns, right? And then you've got, in parallel to that, you've got a bank of Bitcoin miners. All you do is if your market sort of falls away for your primary product, you simply dedicate the electricity to the Bitcoin network.

It access the bio of last resort for your energy and it limits your economic loss on that lockdown scenario. Basically just saving your business and acting like a forced damper from lockdowns or other economic events that make your product unsaleable in your target market.

So it's not just an energy utility play, it's a manufacturer play as well. - Yeah, it's such a good point. And I can see so many different businesses that can spin off this. If people can have containers full of miners that can be ready to move to where they're needed in this exact scenario that you're talking about,

that's gonna be a fantastic business for people because it's better to have something than nothing in that situation. And an agreement can be had very quickly, they can be plugged in very quickly and it saves someone from complete loss.

And then like you say, it does, a lot of people say, "Oh, it's not a battery." And technically, obviously, no, it's not, but they are storing value which would otherwise be lost. So in some ways, yes, I agree with you, it is a battery.

- Yeah, economic battery. So where your loss would have been 100%, you might limit your loss to 20% or 30%. That's a difference between life and death on a business. - Yeah, absolutely. Being where you are and what's going on, do you have any thoughts if this business starts to take off if you start to do this and it becomes successful?

Are you planning to stay in South Africa? Are you planning to move? Like what are you thinking? - Well, I would see how a thought goes within my own company. Obviously, if it starts much trimming and starts swallowing other business ideas and other uses of capital at an increasing rate.

And of course, I'm perfectly positioned within my company to be the guy that was in on it first and the guy who came up with the idea. That's always important in a corporate environment. But yes, I would definitely look to relocate, but having, looking at the other jurisdictions, I mean, to swing to socialism is so much and so fast.

I mean, the states is fully socialist now. Canada, Australia is crazy with socialism. - So bad. - I'm struggling to find a suitable spot to basically treat my Bitcoin well. That would be my first consideration.

Who's gonna, what jurisdiction is gonna treat my capital best? And that's where I would target relocation too. Even though it's not on the threat, even though it's not on the threat from any nation state due to the technology, but I don't wanna have to pay 40% tax if I wanna spend some small little fraction of my Bitcoin in the future.

- Yeah, no further. - Portugal looks very good at the moment. - Yeah, a lot of Bitcoin is out there a lot. Almost every week, I know someone who's getting themselves out there. It's still in Europe though, which means that obviously their crazy socialist ideas will probably leak over there, but there's no perfect options right now.

It's basically the thing. There's no flight to absolute safety. And so it's just, and it's forever changing. You know, it's just something we will have to keep our eyes peeled and move when we have to, but sometimes staying where you are in a place you know, with people you know is actually the safest thing.

And just working on your security model, multi-sig and whatever else is necessary to make sure that you secure that stack, because that is the ticket to freedom. - Yeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head right there.

You don't wanna jump out of the fire into the frying pan sorta thing. In some cases, the primitive or the lack of understanding of your governments is actually a good thing, because there's a sleep at the wheel while this network marches on and further changes itself.

So you know, you might not have that war that you foresee. It might just swallow your government quickly. If your government's been very, very slack to attack this thing head on, which the South African government is slack after attacking anything here on, I mean, they were under attack for a week

before they deployed the army, you know what I mean? Before they sort of realized, oh shit, we're under a terrorist attack here. So the likelihood that they will move quickly to have infrastructure in place to monitor and confiscate Bitcoin is like,

it's like you're asking for us to invent nuclear fission over here by the South African government. It ain't gonna happen then. - Yeah, no, I think you're right. It probably is a good place to be given that a lot of these other countries aren't moving a bit quicker.

What you're doing is really exciting. I'm really glad I had you on and I hope that you keep me updated and I will also, behind the scenes, reach out to a few people who maybe can solve some of the problems that you might be facing, some of these tech guys and some other miners because the more hash power we can get on here,

the more we can secure it. And I just wanna see this thing succeed. So anything that I can do to help you, I will. And I'm sure some listeners might reach out as well. So thanks for what you're doing.

And thanks for jumping on the call with me. I really enjoyed it. - Thanks for having me, Max. I really appreciate the opportunity to get my idea out there. - Yeah, looking forward to plugging in the forest to the Bitcoin network.

- Awesome. Well, I'm sure as this thing plays out, we'll have you on again if you're up for it so we can get an update. But until then, good luck with it all. My DMs are always open if you need anything.

And yeah, stay safe with everything that's going on. - Cool, man. Thanks very much. Take it easy. - Bye-bye. - Cheers. - Cheers. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music)

(upbeat music) (upbeat music)

(upbeat music)

(upbeat music)