Meshtadel monthly 0004 with Untapped Growth and Czino

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.

Let's go!

Now, what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison. Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.

Alright, you ungovernable misfits. I'm your host, Max. Everybody knows that Bitcoin is useless, worthless, and doomed to fail. But what if everyone's wrong? What if it's the system that is doomed to fail?

Join me as I speak to some of the brightest people in the space and slither to the deepest, darkest depths of the Bitcoin rabbit hole.

Welcome back, everyone. This is the fourth Meastadale monthly. And I'm joined again with Chino and Untapped Growth. It's not the best audio quality. Joel was actually on the side of the road.

He broke down and still managed to make the call, but we had to do it over a mobile. So I've done my best with the editing, and I think it's still a fantastic show. Definitely worth listening to.

There's just a few parts in it where there's a little bit of background noise and things aren't quite as clear as we'd like. We'll definitely have to revisit some of these ideas. I really love chatting to these two guys, and I look forward to seeing what happens in the future.

I hope you enjoy the show, and if anyone has any questions, please feel free to reach out.

Oh, here we are for recording. Welcome back to our fourth Meastadale monthly. I've got Chino back, and today we have Joel untapped growth joining us from underneath the tree. This just shows how much he cares about plebuculture.

He's broken down on the side of the road, and yet he is still joining to have this discussion. So welcome. Nice to speak to you for the first time, mate, via voice, and welcome to the show.

Pleasure, buddy. I'm glad to finally get the chance to connect. Chino, welcome back. Nice to speak to you, as always. We haven't really structured this, so, Chino, maybe you have an idea of where you want to take this, but I'm going to probably take a bit of a backseat here.

This is one where I want to really listen to some of the ideas that have been discussed over the last few days. It's fascinating stuff, and as anyone listening to this show knows, we are here to build and help this plebuculture allow people to not only become more wealthy with their Bitcoin,

but more healthy, focus on family, focus on food, focus on building connections between other Bitcoiners to create a better world, and that's really what the show's about. So, Chino, maybe you have some ideas where we kick this off.

Yeah. I have to be honest, I'm also quite unprepared. I am super happy to finally talk with you in person, Joel. Like, I always listen to most of the parts you're appearing, and it's always a pleasure to just sit back and listen to you talking, because you are a man, like a true pleb in my mind.

And just what you're doing is, I'm very inspired by that. Like, I have to confess something. Like, I think it might be a bit of a taboo sometimes in the Bitcoin space, because diet is also a big topic, but I'm mostly vegetarian.

But being vegetarian, I can say that I really respect what you're doing. And if I would be eating meat, then I would definitely only choose cows that are raised in a way that you're doing it, because I really think that this is helping our planet, like not this industrial, industrial-based cattle farm and bullshit.

This is something else. It's a privilege to be on with you, buddy. The whole reason I made time for this is because I knew they wanted to jump on with me and you. So when I saw your name, that's when I was like, OK, I'll make time, I'm in.

This is an honor to know you, man. There's so many guys in the Bitcoin space that I really respect. You and Soul Explorer are near the top of that list. You guys are just, they're true men.

They're the kind of men that I'm proud to be a part of as we're reshaping a new world together. I co-sign that message. It's weird how you gravitate towards certain people. And you know the people who are really here for what's important.

And yeah, Chino and SoulX are two of my favourite Bitcoiners as well. Just so much so. But just work so hard and there's no bullshit, no bravado. And always there to help people. So yeah, massive, massive respect.

Yeah, if you guys remember when I dropped that first pod with Marty, when I said the plebs will inherit the earth, the kind of guys I was thinking about that was in my heart was guys like Soul and Chino.

It's like they truly exemplify that part of that message. Guys with that meekness and integrity and that heart just for building together. So Chino, I'm curious, why vegetarian? It started when I moved to Berlin like first time getting out of my family nest.

And I moved into a flat with vegetarian and Chino got me into this. Like my first reasons were mostly environmental. Like I think it's still true that a lot of the industrial raised cattle and meat production is that for the environment, like anything that is industrial, like any industrial farming is bad for the environment.

But this is how I got down this rabbit hole of starting to eat theattering and I think that equally being and doing a good diet, vegetarian and the good diet, eating meat, both validity in this world.

So I'm staying rather on the vegetarian path, like getting my proteins mostly from legumes, which is also convenient because I'm from a culture where you're seeking lituminous plants because they put the nitrogen back into the soil.

So I'd rather stay on that for now and let's see, maybe living the homestead life that will change my mind, but as of right now, I cannot see it. Gotcha, gotcha. I'm assuming Max, you're a meat eater, like the rest of the Bitcoin community, right?

Yeah, I'm not carnivore yet. I still do have my greens. I like broccoli. I like spinach. I'll still eat a bit of rice and bits and pieces, but mainly I'll try and eat meat and stay away from anything that's processed or high sugar or anything like that.

I'm yet to speak to anyone who convinces me that all meat diet is the way to go, but I'm open to the idea. Yeah, I'm not all meat either. I kind of follow like a Western price style diet.

Do you know who that is? No. So he was a guy. He was a dentist, right? Kind of at the really getting rolling into the industrial revolution. There is still a bunch of indigenous people groups.

Maybe a dozen dozen and a half that hadn't been touched by the industrial revolution yet. So they still like had been completely sequestered from the world, like some of the innuites of North or some of the Polynesians down in the islands, like cultures that really didn't have much contact with the rest of the world.

And what he was seeing in his dental practice was that a lot of the modern people were having bad teeth structure, having lots of issues of cavities, having poor bone structure in their faces that made it harder for them to breathe and lots of just secondary effects

for their more susceptible just to disease and a lot of sorts of problems. But when he was seeing people that came from these more indigenous cultures that followed their more traditional diets, they didn't need braces.

They didn't have cavities like all these things you thought these indigenous people groups would be more prone to struggle with because they weren't quote unquote modern, right? They didn't have any of the ailments of the modern man.

So rather than like a lot of people do of being arrogant, he's just like, OK, I don't understand something. Let's go study it. So what he did is he just traveled the world to all these different people groups of these nations that had not been touched by modernization yet and sat down with the elders of their tribe.

I was like, hey, what's your guys' stored tribal wisdom? What do you guys eat? What do you guys do when it comes to childbirth? What do you do for like health of treating these certain ailments and just catalog everything he could before it got lost in the oblivion of modernization?

And what he found was there's a lot of just trends that all the people didn't comment. A lot of it was like wild caught fish at certain times of the year or fish eggs. They had certain superfoods that he tested to find out they were high in vitamin K and vitamin A and vitamin D. Actually, vitamin K hadn't even been identified.

He just named it X factor because he didn't know what it was until they figured it out later. He just saw something that was a pattern and all these people were eating. And typically it was found in like animal products, pasture raised or wild caught from the ocean.

They put a lot of effort into preserving those fat, soluble vitamins. That way they could feed them to their people's and key points in their lives like the children and the women before they gave birth.

Interestingly, a lot of them also fed the high nutrition diets that men before conception. They believe that impact the quality of the next generation as well. They also most of the tribes had rules for like you had to wait three to four years between each child, which is kind of cool to let the woman rejuvenate her energy before bearing

another baby. He had all these different dietary and things that he discovered that just kind of had patterns. He wrote a book about it. So it's heavy meat. A lot focused on things that are pasture raised, wild caught from the ocean.

But they do eat grains and things and found the patterns of these tribal nations, but they all had methods of which they processed them to make them more palatable or like healthy for the human.

So like the grains they would sprout and soak them or like ferment them as a sourdough. And there's a lot of different things like like a soy, like they would do different processes that actually minimize like the negatives of the soy and maximize what's good from it.

It's kind of cool. When you look back, there's a lot of people groups that like they were taught by the modern world that they were just wasting their time doing these things. Like I think this one people group, I forget what it was.

I think it was some sort of bark or something that was a part of their diet. And they had this elaborate process of like stripping it, soaking it, you soaked it and like dried it like three times and there's this whole process you had to go through.

And like the modern guys like, why the hell are you going through all this work? Just do it once, you know? And none of the people in the tribe remembered why they were doing it. But everybody in the next generation started getting sick.

It was a cumulative knowledge over like long periods of time, right? And when they finally went into research at using modern science, what they discovered is the traditional practice of doing those methods of processing actually was removing arsenic from the product that they were consuming.

And so when they, with their modern arrogance said that's not necessary anymore, they were actually circumventing the tribal wisdom that was happening over a long period of time. That's too short to be discovered in a single generation.

Unless you had like, you knew what the right question was to be looking for using modern science. It seems that it's a recurring theme. There are a lot of ancient bits of wisdom and ancient practices that are disregarded by modern cultures.

And actually, it's very important and there's a reason that these things would be done this way for a long time. And it seems that we're sort of trying to go back to these practices, or a lot of Bitcoiners are in lots of different disciplines in lots of different ways, but sort of going back

to that family unit and going back to thinking carefully about how we do things and passing knowledge on to our children, which is really good. Is it there's quite a weird noise in the background?

I don't know if it's me or Shino or you, but it's like a- It's probably me. Did it stop? It's stopped now. Okay. That's me. I'm pacing. I like the mute between me. Sorry. I'd normally edit it out, but I can't because we're on Zoom, so I don't have only have one track of audio.

Yeah. That's much better. Yeah. My point is just that this is what this shows about is to talk about these kind of things and to make Bitcoin is stronger and healthier and smarter and all these things that we can pick up will be useful.

So I'll link that book in the show notes that'll be handy. Yeah. It's really cool, right? Because it's like Bitcoin teaches you to think in first principles again, which is leading to a renaissance of lost wisdom.

Like in our modern world, the best description I have for it is like everything became a tower of Babel. We thought we could ascend and become God and mechanistically control everything. I mean, you know, you and I as permaculture lovers, we'd know like it's about discovering and creating space for the emergent order, right?

It's like, it's like co-creating with stories that are larger than just you as the author. You're creating space for it. You're facilitating it, but it's not just you. It's you are collaborating.

Yeah. Go for it. Exactly. It's like it's giving away control over how things are actually happening. Like in traditional farming, like the farmer tries to control everything to the minuscule parameter, like water amount and the nutrients they give in, like they try to have everything under control, but that makes it so much more brittle.

And we see that like, especially in when you compare capitalism, like through free capitalism, and then socialism communism, like this spectrum of control. And I see that there is this pattern, especially amongst Bitcoiners who recognize that you cannot just control everything from the central point that's impossible.

You cannot just be aware of everything that is happening that's going on right now. So naturally, you should give up control and let the things organize themselves. Yeah. It's like this assumption.

You just assume with humility that you just don't know enough. I mean, no matter how much you learn, there's always unknown unknowns. Do you apply a heuristic of a system that just takes that into account where you don't have to know in order to create and rule well?

Exactly. The best rulers, they don't rule, they just let things happen naturally. They're like cultivators, you know, it's like you facilitate almost like a, it's almost like romance. It's like you're doing your part and telling that part of the story, but it's more like

you're creating the landscape for the life itself to emerge beneath your care, but you're not the one who makes the growth happen. The growth is just something larger than you that you're, you're in service.

I feel like Bitcoin's like that too, right? It's like this, this system of hard rules, but the rules are there because when you know the boundaries, the life can bloom in the midst of it.

It's like when you have no boundaries, all you just end up with is chaos. Yeah. Well, that's the cool thing with Bitcoin is that you have the rules without the rulers and you have certain things that you can't change or be very, very difficult to change.

Beautiful new ideas can come from it because there's not like a constantly changing idea of what is or isn't acceptable or what is or what isn't possible. It's just this is how this works.

You can then build on it or around it. And it kind of just means that things can be done in a much freer and more exciting way. That's one of the reasons that I get so excited about Bitcoin is I know how this is going to move to know what my restraints are on a business or how I want to interact with it.

And that's not what I see in normal world. You can start with a business or an idea and then suddenly a regulation changes and it completely destroys everything that you've planned for the last few years.

And that's a real pain in the ass. That's what's so different with this. Yeah, that's what the whole ESG movement is, right? It's these top down regulations that you're at the women fancy of those who write those rules and can change them in a way versus trying to create value in the world just based

on what the market is openly telling you the truth is that's something that us as business owners in this new, crazy economy are going to have to deal with dealing with this just insane regulatory environment.

Yeah, it's weird because we still have to some degree we have to play by certain rules or find ways around them. And a lot of the time I feel like we're living in the future in terms of we know how this should go, but we've still got one foot in the legacy system.

And it's incredibly frustrating because you know that it's bullshit. You know that there's better ways because we do it because because we Bitcoin, but you can't just yet just go like there's no one place.

There's no one country where it just goes, right? This is Bitcoin country in the physical realm. It's different digitally, but when people just go, right, let's just fucking build. We're still tied to this shitty old system, unfortunately.

I've noticed a lot of people that I've gotten agonism from about the project I'm working on that it's like they see one facet of what I'm building and then they assume that because I'm not controlling that facet to maximize optimization and like achieve it quickly.

That like, I don't know what I'm doing, but like what I keep coming down to is just realizing people don't understand the game that I'm playing and I think that happens with a lot of us as Bitcoiners or like even to another world, you know, you and I interact in a lot of the permaculture world.

It's like people have these small critiques, not realizing that you've taken to account everything they're trying to tell you. You're just living in a world bigger than that. Have you noticed that too?

Yeah. People let you know about Bitcoin or you talk to in your world because you've worked kind of work. We're standing at the transition point. So it's really interesting. You see that divergence.

Yeah. What you mentioned that happens also within permaculture there are some groups within this whole community that some people say, oh, what you're doing, you're using concrete, oh, this is not permaculture or somebody else uses a big fat machine to dig this whales or the dams.

And they say, oh, no, you're putting CO2 in there. That's not permaculture. But in the end, like it counts what the result is. If you use some, a lot of energy up front, of course, yes, there's a lot of energy.

But if you can probably design it in a way that this huge upfront energy cost is then stretched out over the course of hundreds, if not a thousand years, then this energy expands its miniscule.

But some people, they have a certain idea of, in this case, permaculture, how it should be. And then they feel entitled that when other people do it differently than them, then that's wrong.

And they need to be negative about that. And the same, I think, that happened also in your business, your undertaking, that some people assume that, oh, if you now shit on ESG and you call it, like, communistic and whatnot, that you don't get funded by the rich people because they apparently play a different game.

But I was thinking that there are not only one kind of rich people that play by certain rules there, also Bitcoin especially right now, who got immense wealth already. And I can see them actually be more excited about putting money in what you are doing because they see that it actually goes into a better direction.

Yeah, I keep it in the process, but my girlfriend, I felt like energy usage, she's very much against, like, modernization, when it comes to, like, using fossil fuels and all that kind of stuff.

I'll be trying to work on her with this idea that energy in itself is not either, is not a positive or a negative. It's like free will. Like, if you try to say that humans can't use energy or shouldn't be used in energy, which you essentially stand underneath of it, is humans shouldn't be free.

Which goes kind of the core of what I believe is that the limiting factor of anything we can accomplish as humanity goes back to the heart of the economy. And what is it that we are trying to create, you know, are we living in a line with truth and beauty of being submitted to things larger than us?

Or are we trying to build a tower of battle in the world that we just bend our every women fancy to try to control and outcome without being submitted to the way things work? It's like, it's like a, like a respecting of energy, just like we use libertarians respect

free will of knowing that everybody has a right to try, but then you judge things by their outcomes of what is that person actually creating with their energy. And then that includes not just like physical energy, what you choose to do with your life, but like even energy of what you spend with like fossil fuels that dig swales because

in the long run it pays back. Yeah. Like, of course, there's some people who we could say that they waste energy, if for example, they let a light bulb running by accident in a cellar and nobody's there.

But every, I think every intentional use of energy should be permitted under the idea of freedom. Like, people, they don't just spend energy because they don't want to, they spend energy because they get used out of that.

And this whole energy debate, like, if we can just pinpoint that you cannot just judge what is good and bad energy use, then this whole debate falls to pieces because this is the foundational advice on saying that using energy to mine Bitcoin is bad just because you don't see the value in Bitcoin or it's not valid.

Bitcoin has immense value for the right people. And it shouldn't even matter any way whether it does or doesn't because who is one person to make a decision over somebody else. It might be that what you're doing right now doesn't produce anything that others deem

useful, but it might be a project that takes a long time and then becomes incredibly useful to a lot of people. And if you can't experiment and try things that other people think are weird and different or not of use, then we're never going to progress as a society because most of the most interesting

and most useful inventions, I think if you ran it past the average person, they'd probably say that that person's crazy and it's a waste of time. If we start limiting what people is allowed, so I say that again, like the airplane, like the airplane.

Yes. The day before human will never fly and then the next day they're like, they're out there flying. Exactly. And like I think it's even worse because when it comes down to it, it's like a co-dependent saying that I have the right and my limit to understanding to say I understand everything

you do and tell you what you're allowed to do with your free will. Because that's an infringement of base humanity, I mean that free will, I'd say that's that slice of the divine in us, that's that gift of what makes us different.

And if we say that all energy is, energy is just leverage to implement your will with a greater depth and reach. So when we try to say that you are not allowed to use your will as you see fit, you're directly stepping upon like the divine aspect of people's humanity that's around you.

It's like you're dehumanizing them or positioned a co-dependency where it's like you have the right of God over that person to say what their will was valid or not about. It's a dangerous theme that I see playing out, not just with energy, but with lots of

things that are going on in the world is people believing they're smart enough to control complex systems. And then it's not only that they're not smart enough, it's not right to even think about doing it.

But it does seem it's getting more and more normalized and you know the conversation that you had with Marty and also the one that he'd had with Sailor and everything annoyed me that people got on his back because I actually really respected him standing up and saying

literally fuck ESG, let's not try and go along and play games and be the nice guy like we know that ethically and morally what we're saying is correct. It is, I think, maybe a dangerous thing to allow these lies to continue.

We have to battle these stupid ideas, we'll work together to show that actually it's ludicrous to come up with these sort of ideas and control these sorts of things, it's just straight up wrong.

It goes back to, like it is a root, this whole communism Marxist thing, is a declaration that people around us are not worthy of the truly human of having free will that got placed within us.

It's a judgment upon them, it's being inferior, what you can mean is just being incredibly arrogant and very him that's unequivocally false. Chino, what's your thoughts on this whole ESG thing?

Yeah, I was thinking along the lines, like Bitcoin showed us that we are able to just step out of the system, we don't have to play that game anymore. And I think, okay, Joel, you're trying to play the game and try to break it from the inside, I hope.

I hope, if you do this, this works out and it just breaks down this whole house of cards. I wonder, are there also ways to not play this ESG game, or as soon as you're a registered company, you are forced to play by the rules?

What you were talking about, it sounds very familiar if you have read the sovereign individual and how they envision that in the future, this government's structure will be broken down into smaller city states.

This sounds very similar to what you were just saying, like corporations instead of governments actually running specific areas. And I really like this idea of just being able to say, well, I don't like your rules here.

I'm able to move somewhere else and it might be just 100 or 200 kilometers away and it's much better place because it's a completely different city state. If it turns out that Bitcoiners are actually able to build this, oh my god, I wish I would be able to see that in my lifetimes.

I've been discovering something. It got triggered by a soul exporter because he's been doing a lot of talking about this idea of a mess to go, who actually was the, like, originator of that idea?

Was that soul who's been pushing that? Yeah, that's his one. And his son. And his son got it. Okay. So I was trying to work on building this structure that I'm building with this cattle co-op, right?

I should probably sync you guys up somewhat when I'm even building first. So like the original vision is I talked about it with Marty and Valis on the podcast doing the like, the nonprofit doing the peer to peer matchmaking of like these decentralized agreements between individual parties where I just kind of help facilitate them to make

them successful doing the open source toolkit of everything they need to do this. That's all still going. But the deeper I've gotten into this, the more I've realized that like, this needs to be a network of organizations.

I won't get bogged down the weeds of explaining all the whys about that. Like, let's just say that essentially what I'm going to try to do is I'm going to try to play the same games the elites do using like nonprofits and then for-profit companies

and corporations and funds and all these different kind of modern tools that they use to leverage against the little guy to support their control and rent seeking from the top. But I'm going to play those games to destroy the game and make the guy at the bottom free

again to make the marketplace actually be what we as Bitcoiners believe it should be. This emergent place of freedom where the individual is sovereign again, the family and the community is what sovereign rather than being subject to the winds of a controlling state organization, regulatory structure, right?

Okay. So as I've been getting into building this group and network of companies and different organizations that I need to kind of bridge together to take this larger mission because you get always from the beginning, right?

I said cattle comes first, everything else comes second. My mission statement's always been facilitating the emergence of the citadols. Cows was just the best place to start that because soil is your first productive asset and securing the food supplies, the first thing you need to start building communities

of a new parallel society, right? So I was working on working on the nonprofit that we've already got up in life. We don't have IRS approval yet, but everything back dates compared back to when we filed it.

So that's all going. I'm working on building like a for-profit company that's going to be like a supplier of all the goods and services needed to build these little ranches and kind of get the communities going as well as kind of intelligence-type stuff or consulting services and maybe even

onsite installations of like fencing and water lines and wells and all that kind of stuff. And I'm also working on building a financial arm that is going to give us leverage to attack the tactical things we need to build out the citadol network because the whole world's so broken.

It's not really like business anymore, right? Like we were talking earlier about ESG stuff. ESG, what they're doing is they're forgoing profit for the sake of cozying up to those with power who control the money printer, right?

So you're going against your financial incentives because of the fact that it gets you closer to the political system. So we, on the other side, as the freedom lovers, we need ability to do the same because we need to be willing to say that like we have to treat this like war, not business.

We have to be willing to say this isn't just solely about money. This is about the freedom of the next generation, which is going to yield untold wealth, but it may not even accrue to me, right?

It's like that, like the JJ Hill thesis of when I build the network that makes the world more successful, it makes some of that a value accrue to me in a way that'll be worth it. So there's no place for people to do that currently.

And with the cattle co-op, my goal has always been to be a place where we can strategically attack those things, to create a world where communities and the sovereign individual is brought back to preeminence.

And any questions on that? Is that a good loop in where I am so far? Yeah, I know that, that's pretty good. Okay. You with me, Chino? Does that all make sense? Okay. So what I've gotten into as I've been working on building this whole thing is that we're

leaning forward so strongly into a new world that the old structures of using bureaucratic controls of enforcing contractual leverage against one another is so bogged down with this trust that it doesn't have that fluidity of emergent collaboration that enables you to create value in the way that we need to go to do.

It's so bogged down with trying to have power over one another that there's no space to be creative and actually maintain unity as brothers and create the new world, right? So I've been sitting back and kind of trying to think about this, of how in the world do

I do this, because it's much like we talk about in permaculture world, like you can try to control the inputs to raise perfect plants, but like they're not machine. Really what you have to do is you've got to cultivate the emergent order by creating the space and the landscape that kind of shepherds it to where you want it to go.

But in a way that you're allowing it to have its own part in telling the story versus trying to mechanistically like to using economics, right, dictate it off on the top down. And so I was trying to bring that perspective to like how do I build a business organization with this network of companies.

And I had that thought trigger as all of us for chatting actually was sole exporter of the way that if we lean towards this whole sovereign individual thesis of the free city states and the individual having the sovereignty to move between them to go wherever his beliefs

are most aligned with, of what if this isn't just something that's off in the future? What if this isn't something that's just geographically grounded in one solid space in the physical realm?

Like we're in a digital world, we can collaborate digitally now. Like my team of guys I'm working with, they're not just all over the country, they're all over the world of people that want to work with me because they believe in the way we're trying to make the world a better place together.

So what if we just went towards this idea of the sovereign city states and what we're building, what if like rather than having these complicated charters of all these rules and orders of operations, what if we just set this thing up like one of these places?

Like, like Safedeen talks about he thinks monarchy is one of the best forms of government because it front loads all the risk and all the trust to say like, okay, there's this person leading and this is what they believe in, do I agree with them or not, right?

So what if we got back to corporations more being like tribes like that where rather than the person leading the tribe trying to use leverage to force everybody to have to follow what he wants and then them having to use leverage and power to force him not to go to misuse them, what if we just gave everybody freedom?

What if we just said when I'm raising the money you're building the like financial arm for this network in addition to like the nonprofit and the businesses and stuff that will be collaborating?

What if we just said like, okay, here's the mission, here's the person who's running it, what's either you trust the sky or you don't? And then when he has something that's supposed to be done with the funding, he goes and he explains it to all the people that are a part of this group, it's a tribe, like you can

call them say members of the organization, he's the executive and they get to say one of four things, they can say like, so these are all people who put capital in and are also collaborating with the kind of accomplishing the mission.

People who've really taken ownership of believing in it, they're not just money people, right? They're bringing their own advice and creative abilities and network and whatever they have in the world with them.

So he has something he thinks is needed for the big group of the organization where the financial arm is going to go out for a project, say, for example, I've realized trying to build the cattle co-op that with the scale of the number of farms we're going to try

to do, there's not enough cattle of the right bloodlines that have this low input, deep resilience in them to really stock all the farms. We're going to buy out every cow eventually in North America within the first couple of years and not have any left.

So we need to go after some tactical projects that may not maximize profit, but say like, I had a guy who's a mainstream cattle breeder reach out to me, he's been doing it for generation and his family's been stuck on the hamster wheel, he's also a big winner.

He was like, hey, I didn't know how to get off the hamster wheel until I heard your podcast with Marty and put it all together. Like, if you help me get off the hamster wheel using this network of peer-to-peer matchmaking to have an investor with the land and the different things you guys already know about,

I can bring to the table artificial insemination, doing surrogates with animals, we can import genetics and other nations and like harvest eggs and put them into like mothers of different cows to raise these numbers at a much greater scale because we can use cows that are modern

cows, but put in eggs and semen from ancient cows and scale up your cattle numbers more quickly. So say he's got this project, he goes and pitches it to all the members of the organization.

Okay, so all the members get to say, does this match the mission statement of why I'm here of believing in this guy and his mission that he's brought us together for? And so when he brings it to them, they'll say either, yes, I assent, I'm in this, I'm

going to bring all my resources, not just that are already invested in this organization that I brought in that front, but like my wisdom and my network of my allies and everything I can do to help make this one successful, there'll be others that say like, I like just no statement, like I don't agree or disagree, but I'm still with you.

There'll be ones that say like, I disagree, I assent, but I'm still here, I'm not going to leave over this, I'm going to still be a part of this organization because I believe in what you're doing for the long haul, even though I disagree in this one case, or they

can say like, I disagree and this is a big enough deal, I'm going to leave the organization in part ways with you guys because of it. And so those statements, they're not like votes, they're like, they're front loading the unity of the tribe.

That way the leader of the tribe can make a decision and truly lead, he can say, we're all on the same page here, like this is worth me going out and doing, or this is something that my people don't like.

And then from there, he can make good decisions. This inherently, like Safedine talking about monarchies, it limits his powers, the leader, because if it does things that doesn't respect the mission and while the people are there, the organization will just fracture and they'll go somewhere else just with their capital

and their resources to somebody who does. Does that make sense as a model so far guys? It totally makes sense. This reminds me of something and I think it could really support setting up this kind of thing.

I don't know, have you heard of the corporations of Mondragon? I have not. So let me just explain a little bit. So Mondragon is a region in Spain and there are a lot of companies in that small region that have the custom that if you want to work in that company, you have to put some part of capital up front.

So you're also a stakeholder of that company. And when the financial crisis happened in 2008, 2009, of course all companies did that, but the corporations of Mondragon, they kept fairly steady, like they were not suffering that much because they had the back up of their workers and they were part of making decisions.

Like if it was for example about, okay, sorry guys, we have to cut now our loans. Most people were part of that decision and that's why they kept working the way they were working. And that makes the whole company structure watch for a zillion and coming back to your

idea that would actually be probably the foundation of making this happen. People can decide if they abide by the decisions of the leader or not and leave based on that because they would get, of course they would get their capital back.

And with that they also have cushion and are free to take the time to look for something else. Exactly. Because like when I got into this, right, it was like I was trying to solve the very things we solve and we organize people with government structures, right?

Should it be a democracy? Should it be a republic? Should it have a bicameral voting house? Like we know all the problems of all those things and it just got me back to thinking of the first principles where I agree with safety, like let's put a man in charge.

It loads everything into like the real problem is we need men with good hearts. So then with the good hearts that most people trust be the ones that rise to the top, the ones that aren't trusted will sink to the bottom.

And so if we can make that very liquid in a digital world versus like the monarchy argument in the long run as you can kill the monarch, and that's how you maintain the liquidity in the governance structure to make sure bad kings don't rise, in this case you got the capital and the digital connectivity of the organization as a liquidity.

So being a bad king gets punished really quickly. Being a good king, you rise to the top because you slowly have more and more people who enjoyed being a part of your tribe. It's like governance structures don't just have to be geographically grounded nations anymore.

We can collaborate digitally with an impact on the real world. And that was a big great thing for me to think about that. Go for it. If we could maybe demonstrate this on a practical example, I don't know if you could for example use crypto cloaks as just like a theoretical company that would do this split into more

a decentralized company, what would they need to do to make this happen, you know? I think it would be interesting to look at it that way. So the thing that I'm thinking differently from like those companies in Spain that you're talking about, right?

Like they all get to vote on what to do with the loans. So it's like they have some sort of democratic process where like they have some bureaucratic complexity which just slows down the whole process.

What I'm thinking is like it truly puts all the decision making power in the hand of the executive, but it's an executive who can get punished very quickly if he doesn't defend the trusted collaboration among peers.

And so when he brings in the people, he gets to set with each of them peer to peer as individuals, the trust model of like, okay, here's the withdrawal rules for your capital. Here's the lock up period for your capital that's going to be a part of this.

That way he's not bogged down as a decision maker, right? Like he knows what his access to funding and resources are for a certain time period. But over the longer periods of time, if he doesn't maintain unity, he was his access to all the capital, right?

So it enables more strategic, more like we're talking about with the sovereignty and support in the family, like a small community type fund here. It's more about war than it's about business.

I mean, we're not just trying to make money. We're trying to subvert the whole ESG in Marxist push here. So like when you're trying to go into war, you don't want too many heads making the decisions.

Like if you try to have a democracy run the battlefield, you can't maneuver fast enough and you end up just getting just dog-piled, right? But with this kind of model that's more almost resembles a monarchy, you're front-loading the trust and the risk, but in a way that's on the time scale to these long timeframe

projects we're talking gets punished very quickly because the people are very liquid in the way you design it, just like free market money, right? With Bitcoin where it punishes you for making bad decisions, but this is in a human organization type punishment, right, where people will leave the tribe and but you don't lose your tactical

decision-making every ability to implement decisions quickly and in the long run it gives you some time because even if you make a decision that everybody dissented but they didn't say they'd revoke their money from or like their membership of the group with, you may prove

to have been right and then you actually create a stronger tribe because now they trust you more and they'll listen better next time when you bring something and you'll learn more better how to be more effective in the world.

So it's a little different, yeah it's a little different than just business because that's the problem I was running into because what I'm building is not business, it's war. You can come up with an idea and then people can see that it was good and realize that

actually you are a good leader in the way that you're doing things and maybe you just think about things in a different way rather than having to try and coerce or force people to do what you want, you're building it more on trust and that people will follow you and

it sounds much more efficient because like you said you know you have too many decision makers and things can get really messy it's like you try and create a painting and say to 20 people right this is your little part, this is your little part, this is your little

part let's make something beautiful together and it's going to be a fucking mess, you're much better off having someone who has a vision and can steer it towards that vision. And just let them lead, so to be clear what I'm trying to build I'm not going to lead

at all, what I'm trying to build is a network of tribes of people that have alignment so like have one guy run in the for profit company that's going to help build the infrastructure the new emergent set it all ranches have somebody running the nonprofit which is going to do

the education and the peer to peer matchmaking in the community outreach and a lot of those pieces have this financial arm that's going to work to bring together the capital that's going to support these tactical opportunities needed to help remember to set it all and I envision each one of those being run by a guy other than me.

So like I'm at the top kind of helping direct strategy of all these organizations would be my vision but like the unity of these guys is me drawing them together with freedom of their own consent where it only actually works if me as a leader directing strategic vision

of all of them pick good guys to lead each of them and I'm directing things in a way that all these different guys doing the different parts also still believe in right so it's almost like a like a tribal group where the tribes come together for war when it's needed

but they also are just doing their own thing independently and in a way that's organic and most efficient when there's nothing like that needed at a larger scale. So once again it kind of it shrinks the size of the power structure just like we think about the sovereign and vigilant city states.

I wonder how are the leaders coming into being within a structure especially when somebody steps down I suppose he recommends somebody else but otherwise probably if you're starting your business and you're becoming part of those tribes I guess then you're already in the central world so maybe that could be that could work.

Yeah so these are all the details I got to work out so this is the big structure and then like you have your capital lock up and you which are all rules which will be negotiated with each person you have what happens when somebody says like I support this or I know

statement or I dissent or like this is worth me leaving over like if they say I they agree to kind of help bury the bare the cost of making it successful like maybe they should reap more of the rewards somehow and those who dissent but like don't withdraw their

capital like maybe they should get less of the rewards or be insulated from the consequences somehow if I didn't be in bed and all those little details will be really interesting but I think they're all solvable but yeah the the succession stuff is definitely a big one

my current thinking will be that like we raise a banner of saying hey this is the guy who's got this mission we as a community have seen him live for a long time we trust him here's what he's going to be doing of his clear mission statement who wants to be a part of his mission

with him and so then you got this whole method where he gets punished if he gets out of a line that because people just part ways because you left them liquid which it's great because it makes you accountable as a leader like you're not divorcing yourself from the friction

that forces you to keep have to grow and learn but keep the idea of front loading where he's just in charge where people that join it new he gets to bring him in or decide who gets to join and when it's passed on to the next person he gets to be the one who just like

essentially gives his inheritance to the next guy is going to be the lead and the same punishment model works because if he picks somebody bad then all the capital leads and the people go join a different organization they believe in better who had a better leader pick for

it or they go raise a new banner and pick a pick a new person the way do they believe in more you thinking with this leveraging the Bitcoin network and and using contracts and using lightning and like sort of trying to find a way where people can see where capital

moves or you thinking that it's still some of this stuff would have to remain in the legacy system for for some reason though do you see anything that's happening in bitcoin now that might help with some of these ideas and then make it more secure and more I guess visible

and transparent yep so as of now I'm trying to straddle between the two worlds right old world new world so I'm going to use some sort of legal structure currently what the guys on the legal team are leaning towards as we're working on this is using LLCs but the downside

they're right is the state authority with their monopoly on violence is the one who's responsible for enforcing a grievance right but I've already been leaning towards thinking what you're thinking here max of like if we use smart contracts and multi-sig wallets

and like now you can have this whole world where there's so many different little things right like right now with an LLC the one who's in charge of even saying who I am and if I'm allowed to do business is the state like what if they say that I can't form an LLC with

members who have not been vaccinated and don't have a medical ID as a part of this digital communist system right like what if I want them to be a part of my LLC like well they said I can't right they're in charge versus if we had this set up with some sort of pseudo

anonymous thing where you have an ID that's grounded to bitcoin somewhere and then like reuse snore signatures so you can't tell what's multi-sig and once not you've got privacy respected you can't tell that's just a normal wallet or somebody being a part of more complex

organization and then you leverage some of these smart contracts and stuff to create whatever we're doing with the walk-up periods and withdrawal rules like one thing I was thinking some of the detail type stuff right like imagine if somebody ascends to the projects that it creates

a new walk up period for a certain percent of their capital or something because it's like skin in the game they said this is a good idea they believe in it as being a part of the mission so now you have more liquidity locked in the organization for a little longer

right so it gives the leader the organizational little more resource security to just continue waging war right versus if you do if you like don't give a sense maybe like it changes your lock up period or something right I'm thinking kind of stuff like that there's

so many details I think no stony to work out I love Chino's question I think if we sat down me Chino soul and a bunch of the different guys just talking about this we'll be at the founding fathers man we're gonna just brainstorm a whole new constitution because that's really

what this comes down to it's like we're building the structures of a whole new world but yes the beauty of your approaches like you said in the beginning like you don't have to rule our like rule everything from the beginning and making the perfect plan because there

will be situations differently for each new company that is forming or joining the tribe so I think the best approach might be just to give a template or general direction from which we can then all build upon so you don't have to you don't have to figure out each

little detail because this will then be dealt by the individuals that are involved in that particular instance exactly it's like it's like what I'm trying to define is what the structure looks like of the emergent landscape that we're kind of living in and then where

the knobs and controls are the things that can be tweaked so that people can use them to build what they want to build it's it's it's almost like um like you know like when the US Constitution was written that we became the template for democracy of the next two

hundred and fifty years for good or for ill I think with a lot of what us Bitcoiners are currently leading towards of building these kind of new structures for a new world of how we organize people into this national type thing right like we're building the new

templates that are going to find the next epoch of humanity it's it's stuff that's worth putting the time in to get it right we're we're not just playing the game of what's make a lot of money of building successful businesses here it's we're setting the patterns

of the path dependencies of what's going to be the new world yeah definitely the mindset of we'll be waiting for right now I think because we have to think adversarial and there are people who don't want to see us succeed absolutely more so that don't want us to succeed

than those that do we're stripping away the one ring of power from those who have used it to enslave humankind we have to play the game where we have to be as communist serpents but as innocent as doves we have to put the power back into the hands of the individual

and being intelligent in how we do this it's not just going to be magic there's a there's a part of this that's altruistic of us being willing to take risks to do so just like they try to do this out of selfishness we do this from a perspective of good we invest ourselves

into it it's particularly nice if you're using bitcoin and some of the things that we're discussing like if you are using contracts or time locks or any of these things when they're agreed it's an agreement that you can prove is going to play out whereas in the

current system it seems that it's just who has the best lawyers who has more money it's like a proof of stake kind of system and whenever I'm entering into an agreement in the traditional finance world I know there's a large chance that I'll get fucked if someone wants to take

advantage of somebody who has better lawyers and you kind of just have to take that lying down it makes you not want to invest in things often or do things even if you do think it's a great idea whereas with this I'd feel much more confident because I know that when this

agreement is written up it has to fucking play out it has to stay within the rules that we've agreed and it means that everyone can be away from battling each other and focusing on on the real enemy and making real changes which is really exciting yeah it's interesting

right because like the whole fiat world it incentivizes this I want to call it politics but it's more just like codependency it's like what to keep everybody happy and those that are willing to be the most disruptive are the ones who can win but like goodness

and truth don't matter like like you think about what Craig Wright's doing to some of the Bitcoin developers right going and doing these lawsuits for defamation or whatever bullshit he's up to and our current system the cost to create bullshit is just super super low

like it's not even like Kenny Winikort case it's like is he willing to just pick a fight because it's gonna have a cost that's so high after first he's picking a fight again but it already accomplishes what he wants causing disruption yeah versus most yeah it's terrible

I fucking hate it but like in the system like this if we front load the risk of just saying these are men we're trusting these are the ones we're behind is this but the whole system's liquid that if they step out of line of the mission or do you think we don't support the

liquidity flows away from them like it's gonna have a momentum to it where you can't just fuck with them you can't just use state power because they're the one you trust to maintain social cohesion and consensus to use their bureaucratic messiness against people that

are actually trying to do the right thing you have to go up against like like you're saying max if we really built it into a smart code system he had to try to break the software itself because the only attack surface is the people who believe in the person they're

supporting and if they believe in them they're not gonna be fragile you just have to take them out somehow or go and lie to them but in a community like this as we just proved with the plebs the last couple weeks and the truth is very durable like it just when you're

in a community with a heart that really cares about this stuff you build deep relationships that it's really hard to cast deception into it in a way that just doesn't get shredded you only get one chance you only have one reputation it's not like you can just go bankrupt go

and start a new company and spin some more bullshit if you're in this bitcoin community and you fuck around you're not coming back well it's funny you can just create a new window you can sure try this yep exactly but the real cool thing back though is that yes

you don't get a second chance but at the same time there's ever zillions against dishonesty because it's based upon real trust and real relationship where there can be stuff spread about people around the community and it doesn't necessarily penetrate until it shows out to

have been who they really are it frontboards everything back to this human connectivity again but in this time rather than being a small town of us having like a blacksmith and a butcher that like we have relationship with we know the kind of people they are we're

doing it in a decentralized distributed manner I find it really beautiful because it makes truth and integrity matter again it's like your rather than legal contracts being the adhesion that holds the system together it's honor that holds it together honors become

the glue again a relationship rather than state power of being able to enforce legality that's something that's really really missing in today's society and it's wonderful to see it in in these communities it's it's amazing to see it matter again because they say it's

such a shame it doesn't seem to matter no one seems to value it or respect it and that's very very wrong yes I find it super interesting how we technology technologically advanced but then we at the same time we're going back to our roots of what means being human I like

that yeah somehow managed to just close the circle and go back to where we started yeah it's like we we got further away from each other when we industrialized and globalized across the world but now we get to have that energy leverage of industrialization but go

back and combine it with a distributed localism based on relationships again because that's what clear communication with good money like Bitcoin does to come back to waging war and being strategical about it and resilient one small piece of literature I would like to

recommend is Bill Mullis and the father one of the founding fathers of permaculture he also thought about a lot of like how to build communities and companies in our current legal system and he derived away setting up like at least two trusts that minimizes the attack

vector on your companies to a minimum and if you just Google it and look for Bill Mullis and two trust system think you can find some interesting things to read through and maybe it helps you also in deriving your drafting OT idea a bit clearer how we can turn over

the system that's exactly what I'm looking for stuff like that because what I want to do is transition to a world where the monopoly on violence becomes irrelevant and human consent of trust and relationship is what matters matters again I'm trying to lean towards that to kind

of I don't know kind of wear the trail in the road a little bit hoping everybody else will follow me it feels more and more like it's possible as time goes on and these communities grow and Bitcoin as a network grows and becomes more capable as well and also at the same

time people who are spending their time and energy in this and holding Bitcoin as an asset they are becoming more wealthy and therefore more able to make these ideas reality and so it feels like we are on the cusp of something massive and that's why it's so important that

these discussions happen you know I'd love to see something actually in the real world where we could trial it with which you know you were sort of touching on earlier saying you know what's a way to trial something like this and give something a go and then build

from it I'll be trial and as soon as I get some of these ideas on paper because I need to have I've got people want to put money into this group we're going to do the tactical side of acquiring properties like for the cattle breeder guy and stuff like that and I just

had to come up with a vehicle that works and we've got funds raised already of guys who just want to partner with us and they're gonna take long as soon as I can have these ideas flushed out where why I was just thinking that the trust thing that Bill Mullison described

like calling this thing a trust I find it very peculiar that this is a recurring theme in our Bitcoin community that we talk about that we need to build trust among each other but at the same time we are utilizing a trustless money like you know don't trust verify but

this this contrast is something sometimes to think about how how marvelous it is like speaking of opposites yeah I love that because now it's no longer is the trust list of the money distorted the information so badly that you can't tell how trust in the human

relationship even matters at all anymore it's from moving the trust component from the money so that all of your focus can be on the trust of the relationship it's putting the trust in the one place that actually matters the information in the money is clean so now what

matters is what am I using that money to communicate or collaborate with peer to peer took the degree which goes to something you were talking about earlier Max with my guys some of my core team members of the cattle co-op network I'm building a bunch of my core

people were thinking I was crazy when I was wanting to publish that thing I wrote for the plebs of just putting my hand in their fate on Twitter a couple weeks ago I was like a week ten days I don't even know when that was they were like man like you've got this

web woven around you like you've got no legal leverage whatsoever and I was like guys like you don't get it like my brothers here these plebs they care about one thing and that's integrity and honor it's good fate are we building trust and working together they're like these

guys are all about trustless money and like they don't really like they don't care about building relationship I'm like you you don't get it yet guys I'm going to tell the truth even though I'm buried in the truth is going to be really hard to see and these men will

shake out the truth and show what's really real because they're going to pursue what is the path of integrity and honor and they were like okay your call I think would you do this it's going to burn everything down what you're doing is going to break because

you choose to take this path versus just ignore it and not stir up the friction and because that's what most of my people are telling me to do is just like the whole fiat thing right like fiat's based upon this world of just distortion it's what things stay in the

shadows and don't ruffle feathers too much because you might lose connection to the money printer so we pander and are codependent and that's just not me and it's not who we want to be in the Bitcoin future we want to be people who live in the truth we just turn the lights

on we went shake out where it is and trust each other to be men you pursue that truth and so I just tossed my feet into the hands of the plebs trusting that they had a heart for truth and it's kind of it was scary and beautiful at the same time because like I

know guys that I'm trusted in like I know the heart of guys like Chino and Soul were like if I'm wrong they're going to tell me I'm wrong and they're going to stop supporting me it'll burn me down but if I'm right even if it's hard to see they're going to dig

until they find it because we have enough relationship where they're not going to just write me off very quickly like they're going to take the time to look and that's precisely what happened right like I told the truth on Twitter wrote the story just exactly what

it was just factual didn't editorialize didn't try to like create legal leverage or anything I just spoke from a place of trying to live with honor and the Bitcoiners dug they found the whole history of everything and the whites got turned on and you guys know the rest of

what happened from there and it blew the mind of a lot of my core team because they were like okay you were you were right again like you trust these guys to cover your six because you said they value on or in good Lord they do they found the truth the truth that even

us inside the organization we lost some guys because I couldn't even see it because it was just until the path the past stuff got dug out it was really hard for people to really understand what's happening so like when that happened it just blew the mind of all my guys

I'm working with like this really is a whole new world what's going to happen when honor really is the preeminent position again I'm like you guys are going to find out yeah it's lovely that I liked where you said you don't want to ruffle feathers you want to just keep

things in the darkness you just don't bring things up and to start contrast to what you're doing and what plebs are doing is just like let's just fucking go for it let's just put everything out in the open let's just see and like you're saying if you were bullshitting

or if people didn't agree they'll call you out on it and so it can be scary but it's just so much more efficient it's so refreshing and it's so different that it's maybe going to take people a little bit of time to come round to it but fuck it's lovely I love the

way that this whole space operates and that people do things it's it's yeah it just puts a smile on my face yeah I cried over it it cut me to the core especially here in what some of the guys like like Gina when his network was up to guys you just yeah I just

I wish I wish it was a bit more effective like I I was looking at the specific lightning note like how the connections are breaking off but it stopped so not everybody was convinced I tried to talk to two people whom I knew were connected but they didn't listen to me

maybe they they didn't want to be part of all this drama but some yeah at least one of our rings where this person was part completely exposed gone but like to go step back when when this whole ordeal was breaking out slowly first and privately and then before it even

hit Twitter and people are talking like you you explained me your side of the story and I was also talking at the same time with the other person and I heard both sides of the stories and then I made up my mind and I realized wait a minute what untapped growth is telling

me seems way more plausible because it felt way more like you're speaking from your heart and it also it was more coherent what you're saying while the other side of the story something just didn't seem right I didn't have all the information but I felt there was something

wrong and then after the whole thing then played out I realized yeah my gut feeling was right about this and trusting your gut sometimes goes much longer much a much further way than not trusting anybody yeah I don't know if I make make sense there but I think yeah you

think that you should you should give both sides a chance before you how to house it in English cold you give you judgment for the lack of word yeah before you judge and I knew that when we were talking privately you know like I could tell that like I was shared it

with you we were talking but like you hadn't decided it was like we've been brothers we've been tight for a long time but you were gonna wait until you saw it all and I respected you for it I mean it wasn't just jumping in just because we're friends yeah I know that could

also be changed dangerous like imagine you have like so much cloud and quotes that you could just burn somebody to the ground who didn't do anything not that I'm saying that you would do that because I totally don't think that you're this kind of a person but

speaking of honor reputation and trust this is something that also should not be abused but the beauty of this community is that it is also hard to abuse this because we have seen it a couple of times somebody built up reputation and then tried to gain benefit

out of it and a completely backfire it feels like we're really on the on the cusp of something great here I'm really enjoying hearing the ways you're thinking about putting it together and making it so that we can build these massive trust networks I guess from my side one question

that I have running through my head is and it's something that we've talked Chino me and you about before is if someone comes to me and says oh you know I've got this project I need someone for it for x y and z I feel a hundred percent comfortable saying you can

speak to my friend Chino for this or you can speak to soul x for this you speak to Mr. Crown for this and I will a hundred percent back and put my reputation on the line because I trust and know you guys is there a way that we can do this using the network and so that

it can be to a larger scale does that does that make sense what I'm trying to ask there I think what's going to happen as we start building these new organizations around this kind of a paradigm that's going to happen just organically it'll like you'll be to have

a whole trust model where you're like social media presence is not just like your profile on Twitter but it's the some compendium of all your actions that you're doing in the real world that you want to expose publicly to or that others you are interacting with

you are willing to expose because if you have a wallet that's a part of these companies such as public facing like identity then like your ethics and how you conduct these deals will be publicly known in the long run that's the beauty of the internet information spreads

very quickly and you can just ask somebody about their opinion of somebody else and even if they don't know they can ask another person we can just shout it out into the void of the Twitter space or elsewhere and you can fairly quickly gather all the information you need

the only thing and I think bitcoiners are the closest to this is having some form of verifiable digital identity and yeah a very recent example with hodl hodl and this whole debacle people did not trust the communication because guess why they did not have a p t t key

so a lot of the corners are doing this to prove that it's themselves who talk to you by just signing a message and if you can combine this bless the internet the depth of trust and our trust is money I think we got the recipe right to actually kick this whole thing off

yep and the thing to make it last is going to be maintaining our vibrant rebellious independence between each other as men we're like like just like you did with me where you didn't just throw your plot in you waited to like truly vet the situation with friction like

a like some of the people around me are accusing the situation accusing me of the situation currently that like like everybody's just blindly following me and I stirred up a mob you know not not realizing that that's not true at all like the risk up front everybody was concerned about was the fact that

like you were given away all legal power either just trust yourself to your community who you says will pursue truth and you have no reason to believe they do besides you say you trust them and then now at the end of it they're saying like well you didn't pursue any legal power

you like how do we know you're not just deceiving everybody you know it was like the way we know that works is because we as men who are part of this community we stand above we stand on truth above all else right it's not just about who we know and hand rein to each other

for political power but like we did with bitcoin we've stood against the grain against the current because we believe there's a way the world's better when we are willing to be black sheep and pursue truth above all else we can't let that falter as the community grows larger or even

into the next generations you know i i hope this community aspects day so there are people some people saying that bitcoiners or bitcoin twitter that will just die out because bitcoin becomes mainstream it becomes normalized but i hope with it this whole ideology this whole way of living

becomes also normalized because people they they just adopt they start adopting this way of living like i didn't like this before i discovered bitcoin i learned a lot through like being immersed in this community and i hope that as bitcoin grows this community we are in right now grows with it

i think it will i think not just that but we'll start growing from just these relationships on twitter where we're defended against shit pointers and doing all the stuff we currently do where we get to see people's character or like standing for the messaging of truth like it's the esg narrative

or whatever else is happening but where we actually are building things in the real world together and it not just stays but blossoms into something even greater as we implement it where we'll have tribes of the strongest truest most honorary men rise to the top

oh man i'm so excited for the future to you buddy well we're going to make it happen and yeah i want to say thank you to both you guys for coming on chino for always being involved in and helping push this pod and get ideas going and gel for everything that you're doing and for

coming on here it's a lot of food for thought and i think a lot of these ideas can be explored in in more depth but i know that you are on the side of the road joe and and chino i know you've got a lot going on so i'm going to do my editing get this out as as quick as possible because i

think people really enjoy this one and yeah just to say it's been an absolute pleasure and i really look forward to seeing how these ideas progress and and chatting to you guys again it's been a pleasure guys absolutely pleasure yeah buss is fixed i'm about ready if they're uh my friends are

pinging on me to get back on the road can i give a shout out the soul exporter real quick yeah yeah so one of our buddies man that we we talked about over the podcast i don't know if you keep that in the editor not part of us who are all building this new emergent world this hyper bitcoinized

sovereign individual where the power is more in hand for the smaller organizations and tribes have these massive state power houses we all have our own role to play in that some of us are builders out stacking stones like stony summer ranchers out here raising cows like me summer coders and

leaders like frances building bull bitcoin and the key to being a pleb who really is adding value to the world is do your job well wherever you are it doesn't matter what that job is it's do it with honor and do it to the best of your ability and soul exporters a guy that i really love he's been

really influential in me not just like in a character and ethos thing that's helped shape me as who have become in the space and me as a man but also in the sense that like his little friction he's given me in dialogue as we've talked about problems i'm trying to solve has shaped my thinking in a

way of things i'm doing wouldn't exist without him people like that i think he underestimates the amount of influence he has on guys out here building things because he's a guy who's just thinking well and making us making us all better he definitely underestimates his impact um me and chino often

have to say to him no don't talk yourself down he's way he's way too humble that guy like he's he's a fucking legend and uh yeah i co-sign that absolute fucking legend so so where i'll sign that off man like my heart for me is to just do well with integrity the story that's in front of me

that's in my heart the way and the men that i respect the most are those who are doing that as well no matter what the story being told is and it's an honor and a privilege to be doing it with all you guys man same to you man but what you're doing in this space is just so valuable like you

you're leading a whole movement like not not only like a bit kind of movement but also this this mindset and bringing it to agriculture and the food production it's such an integral part to being successful because without food we would all not be here and getting this thing right

for citadels especially if we ever when we ever built them um yeah it's an integral part of being self-soldered thank you guys enjoy the rest of your days get home safe and uh yeah thanks again really enjoyed it. Take care of you too, love you guys.