Pleb bitcoin Miner Mom, Sarah DiGiacomo, is ungovernable.

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.

Now, what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison.

The greatest scam in history. Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.

All right, you ungovernable misfits. I'm your host, Max. Everybody knows that Bitcoin is useless, worthless, and doomed to fail. But what if everyone's wrong? What if it's the system that is doomed to fail?

Join me as I speak to some of the brightest people in the space and deliver to the deepest, darkest depths of the Bitcoin rabbit hole.

Today's episode is with Sarah. This is long overdue. She has been helping so much with ungovernable misfits and everything we're doing with PLEB mining month. Although I forgot to press record at the beginning, we did recover well, and I really enjoyed the podcast.

We talked about home mining, what it's like having a family so deeply involved in Bitcoin, the crazy medical shit we went through in the last couple of years, and what Bitcoin means to her and the family.

Before we start, I just want to thank everyone who has been supporting the show. If you have been sharing, retweeting, sending to friends and family, giving feedback, and every other way that you've been supporting, thank you so much. It really does help.

I'd also like to thank my anonymous sponsor for sponsoring this show for six months and paying for an ad read for me just to talk about podcasting 2.0. Since I've been talking about it more and more of you are reaching out on the podcasting 2.0 platforms, sending booths and streaming sats.

I really appreciate the interaction, and I really appreciate the sats. The great thing about podcasting 2.0 is people don't have to sell out and chill shitty sponsors that I don't truly believe in.

You can earn and send sats on fountain. If you want any help setting this up, you can reach out to me that really is five minutes and it's getting slipper by the day. It's a great way to play around with lightning, and I really do believe this could be the future.

I'd like to thank Foundation Devices for sponsoring this show, and also for giving two Foundation Devices passports a way for giveaways during the mining month. It's incredibly generous, and I can't wait to see who wins these.

If you're mining those lovely KYC free sats, you're gonna make sure that you keep them safe and secure. Foundation Devices are fully open source. They are beautifully designed and so simple to use.

If you haven't checked them out already, go to foundationdevices.com. If you'd like to buy one, you can use the code bit by bit, and you will get $10 off. And make sure to listen out for our pod coming up with Bitcoin Q&A and Lily.

And finally, thank you to FastBitcoins. They're a Bitcoin-only exchange that allows me to be open and honest about the trade-offs with KYC. They are the only company out there that I know of who would allow me to speak.

So frankly, about this and still want to support the show. They've got an incredible team, and they always push their users to get their sats off exchange. They do not want to hold them for you.

They put out incredible content. They are spreading at a rapid rate. And I have a massive amount of respect for the team. If you haven't checked them out already and you do decide you would like to use the KYC service, go to fastbitcoins.com and check them out today.

If you have any questions, you can reach out to me and I'll be honest about the trade-offs, or you can reach out to their team. Enjoy the show.

- The people that he's set out to connect with and-- - Sarah. - Yes. Can you hear me? - I'm a retard. I, uh, haven't pressed start. So... for fuck's sake, I'm sorry. - Do you do this to all your guests?

- No, no. - Well, I'm glad it's me. I'm glad it's just me then. - Yeah, I'm so sorry. We'll, uh, we'll start again. So I was just doing an introduction for anyone who hasn't already heard from you.

So for anyone who hasn't, Sarah is a long overdue guest. She has been helping with ungovernable misfits from the very beginning, sharing and retweeting and buying the clothing and giving feedback and getting involved in every way she possibly can, along with John and the kids.

And, um, since then, I've had the pleasure of working with her for... How long's it been we've been doing this, uh, mining month planning? - Um, well, it started in probably July, the beginning of it, but then we got involved in a different way in probably August, before August.

Um, I guess it's been over a month now that we've really been hitting it, so... - Yeah, so a month of me, uh, annoying you and messing up times and dates and fucking all sorts of things up.

So you've been incredible with all the organization and organizing sponsors and loads of different brainstorming ideas and getting the kids involved and all this stuff that I think is just gonna make the mining month so special.

Yeah, I've appreciated all of the support from you and the family, really from the beginning of ungovernable misfits. And so this is well overdue. This is now, well, it's the second time now doing an intro for you because I fucked up the first one, but, um, yeah, it's a real pleasure to have you on.

- Well, I'm so happy to be here. I'm happy to talk to you. Um, and I am happy to get the message out about what we're doing. It's exciting to me to interact with everybody. I think that the plebs are very like-minded people and it's nice to connect with those people because I don't find in our small town

too many people that are on the same level or open-minded enough to understand what we're trying to do. So it's been fun for me and I really, I have enjoyed talking to all of you, Fellows.

- So what's it like in the small town? Are you guys the sort of crazy Bitcoin outcasts or like what's the general vibe when you're speaking to the, let's call them the normies? - Well, I'll tell you, my job, I work as a hairdresser.

So, um, I do talk to a lot of people where they talk to me rather. I, this is very foreign to me talking about myself because I'm listening to people all day. But, um, I find that, um, if you do find someone that is willing to listen to it, I think that they have, um, beyond the concern that they don't understand what's happening.

They have a concern that, um, perhaps my husband has gotten me involved in something cultish. (laughing) I, I see a concern in people sometimes, uh, you know, what is John doing? Like, as if he's spending all our money, uh, on his mining things and, they just can't understand how it works,

but they don't have the patience to listen and understand it. So, when I talk about it to the few people I feel I can talk to, they still seem to treat it like I am in some kind of trouble.

(laughing) You know, uh, I, I tried, even, even to our parents, you know, and I try to keep it very topical so that, you know, there's just so many facets of, of mining, but I try to keep it topical and, you know, everything is good and he's just trying to, you know, prepare for our future.

Um, and they get that, but at the same time if, um, if he gets into, you know, he's, you know, doing immersion mining now and, and they think, oh no, what is this? It's not, it's not greeted with the, uh, excitements or hopefulness that I would expect somebody to, uh, receive it with, um, but they just,

I don't think they can wrap their mind around it. So, it's been a struggle. We, John has tried to go to our local farmers market and get people to take Bitcoin there and they just, I mean, they just can't even comprehend it.

They have no interest in trying to incorporate it. And I, I don't know that many people in this town that would even know how to pay for anything with it. So, um, it's a, it's a tough gig around here.

Even in the bigger city that we live outside of, it doesn't seem to be in fashion yet. They don't have any meetups there, um, which I think is strange. They did have a Facebook group, um, a few years ago that, that, you know, tried to get something going.

I think they had like 18 followers. So, uh, I just don't think it's, uh, being talked about here and I, I wish we could change that, but I don't really have time right now. So, we're doing the little steps we can, uh, here at the home front, but for now we're gonna focus on what we're doing here

with Club Minor Month and see how we can make things grow that way. - Well, that's the beautiful thing about the internet and social media. There's a lot of bad things, but the beautiful thing is that if no one around you has the same beliefs or wants to talk about the same things that you're passionate about, you're not alone anymore.

You can reach out and there's this group of other weirdos you're also really passionate about here. And to me, that's what this Club Minor Month is about. It's like connecting all these people that maybe otherwise in their day-to-day life are a bit lonely 'cause they wanna chat to other people

or share ideas with them and it just wouldn't be possible otherwise. - That's true. And John, I think for a long time, struggled to find his weirdos and this has been what, what he needed.

You know, connecting with other intellectual, smart, just fun people and to change the world together. It's just so exciting and I've been excited to see him have these relationships and it has made him into a happier person.

- That's really good to hear. I think it doesn't always have that effect. You have some people who go a bit crazy from it and you also have families that just don't support and I don't know whether that's just 'cause you're extra based and you understand it and you're just like, okay, this is cool or what it is

but it's really, really nice to see a family who gets behind an idea and not just goes, oh yeah, whatever, we'll just leave you to it. Like, we'll trust you, like whatever. You're actually getting involved to this level and the whole family are moving as a unit which is something I think is missing massively

from most people's lives and it's just nice to see that there's this collaboration and this understanding of what this thing is and yeah, moving as a unit which most people just don't have.

You know, there's very few people that I speak to who are involved in this and anyone cares. My sort of journey and personally was really, really lonely 'cause no one wanted to talk to me like at all and if anyone did, it was really to just try and shit on my ideas and tell me why I was wrong

and it was frustrating because when you're passionate about something and you truly believe that it's great and that it can make change to the world and you're just treated like an outcast, it's like, huh, maybe I'm crazy and maybe after a certain amount of time if you don't find this group of weirdos and you don't have any support,

maybe you go, maybe I am, that would be very sad. - It's good to commiserate together. It's great to bounce ideas off of each other and I've never seen such a network of closely knit people that are willing to help each other.

So, I mean, at the drop of a hat everybody's willing to chip in and whether it be, you know, just giving their knowledge, some people their time. I, you don't see that in many other facets of the world today and it is many different things to me, the Bitcoin community,

but I think that that has been the best part about it is that, you know, John brings me along and everybody welcomes me and, you know, there was never any level of distrust or, you know, it's just, here I am and here they are and all these people he had talked to me about for, you know, a period of time.

Well, now I have been interacting with them and they are sweet and wonderful and always treat me well. So, that is something you don't get everywhere and people are paranoid and suspicious these days and I don't, I feel like if you've got an in you guys are definitely paranoid, but in a different way.

So, that's okay. I don't blame paranoia, but I'm glad to be a part of the community and I think it's the most hopeful thing that we have in the world today and I know that we can change things for the future.

And what's it been like for you like learning and getting involved in Bitcoin? Was it a slow burn? Did you guys get involved in it at the same time and learn together or was it one of those things where John just wouldn't stop talking about it and he'll be like, "Oh, I better start listening.

I better start getting into this." Can you remember like how it played out for you? - I can. It is a little bit of all of those things, but first and foremost, if John gets involved in something, that's all there is and that's all there is around him.

So you better, you know, get on board or you're out of the loop, you know? So initially he had talked to me about Bitcoin in 2011. I was working from home. I had my office upstairs and he came home one day and he downloaded this stuff onto my office computer

and he's talking about this and I have just absolutely no idea what he's talking about. And I said, "Okay, well, whatever." But then paranoia got the best of him and he took it off of there, sadly.

But so he had had this idea years ago. Unfortunately, he didn't stick with it. But then many years passed and he came back at it again. He needs encouragement to follow through on initial ideas.

He think he second guesses himself. He doesn't want to risk anything for our family. So I either have to be on board or he's going to be eating himself up about it. He never really has bad ideas.

So I just, you know, I listened to what he had to say and, you know, I said, "LFG, let's fucking go." I don't see, why not? You know, even if at the end of the day we only ever broke even on this, the relationships, he's formed and everything around that is just so much more valuable

than money could ever be. So I am all in on it. And it has made him confident. It has made me hopeful. And I have three little girls that I, you know, want to have a better future for. So that's all I'm trying to accomplish here with that.

- Yeah, you make a good point with the fact that if it didn't work financially, if it's just a break even, it's not that you've lost because there's so much that's gained. And I think people underestimate that.

It's probably only when you really start to create proper friendships and groups of people that you start to build trust with outside of just Twitter and on different communication channels or in person, ideally.

But that's something that really is underestimated because it's very, very hard to find that in normal life, especially now with the world as divided as it is. And with most Bitcoiners that I meet, they're more of that freedom-loving type of individual.

They're a little bit skeptical about some of the narratives that are being pushed from above and they don't necessarily fit in completely or they learn to, but they're never completely comfortable and happy.

And so to find those people and so many of them. - Right, it feeds your soul. 'Cause you know that there's something missing, like, okay, I have these friends and family and they serve me in a certain way, but I'm not fulfilled, especially for John.

He's extremely smart. He has to be doing something and in that doing something, it has to be something to better our future or else he's not happy. So this was the perfect mix of everything.

The people he has longed for and the nature of building systems and mining, it's just all been exactly what he needed to feed his soul and he is happy and that makes me happy and that makes our girls happy.

So I'm happy that this has found its way to him and I'm happy to be able to be involved in it also. It's been serving us well. - Yeah, and you said it's nice to see that he's happy and it makes you and the girls happy.

They've obviously been getting involved and doing a couple of thudbusters and they've been learning about the mining and learning a bit of physics from it and everything else. Like, that must be a pretty cool thing to see because the school systems certainly here are dreadful from why here they're not particularly good over there.

And so to see the kids learning something that's actually applicable and useful must be quite a nice feeling. That is a wonderful, it's a wonderful tool and we have considered speaking to their school to see if we could do like an assembly or buy books for the library that would teach children about Bitcoin.

So that's something we're trying to get involved in the school. It's a pain in the ass to get any kind of, I don't know, literature or thought process in there that isn't part of the current curriculum.

So, that's something we are working on. We certainly, the girls are all in on Bitcoin also to the point where it's so common to them that they'll bring it up in everyday conversation with others and people will either think, what the heck are these kids talking about

or they'll be blown away with the knowledge and the subject material that these girls are bringing to the table. So, that's exciting. And I hope that, you know, somebody here's a 10 year old talking about Bitcoin and they say, well, that must be something I should look into a little bit harder because this girl's on the right program.

She has lots of ideas. She wants to start an Etsy shop or, yeah, and sell Bitcoin stickers and things like that from that she's gonna design. And, you know, we're very, very eager for her to shine with our artistic side and hopefully she can incorporate it with Bitcoin.

- Yeah, that's really cool. And she can learn the value of money and hard work which a lot of kids don't understand. They just don't get it. They don't get to start these little businesses and learn about it.

And I think the thing that's so great with Bitcoin is like, they can set up a lightning wallet or a normal wallet on a phone that you can do it very, very easily. And what's quite nice about SATs as well as it looks a bit more exciting, you know, if they've earned a couple of thousand SATs,

they're like, oh, wow, you know, it's a bigger number, isn't it? - It's much more exciting than $5. - Yes. - Yeah, and that would be exciting to them for them to have their own wallets with Bitcoin.

And so that's to come to, you know, we plan on getting them equipped with all of those things, but for them to actually earn their own, Bitcoin would be very exciting. - It's all gonna come.

And, you know, these kids are the future. I still think, you know, it's a bit of a meme in Bitcoin but I still think we're really, really early. And the things that are gonna come are just gonna blow our minds and it's really gonna be the kids building on top of this stuff.

They're gonna come up with all the clever ideas and make all the UX really beautiful and usable. And they're gonna sort of question why anyone would have ever used a bank or the legacy system because the, why would you?

- Right. I think of that all the time that I think, I often think what will people of the future think about this time in the world and how corrupt it is and the banking system is a joke.

And I wonder what they'll write in the textbooks maybe will become based at some point. That's my only hope. I don't know if that's ever gonna happen but in a perfect world, everybody would wake up and realize what's going on and stop being sheep and zombies and write a proper book about how corrupt everything is.

And it's scary but I try not to go down the, go down the rabbit hole of, you know, too many. - Too many conspiracy theories. - Too many conspiracy theories, yes. 'Cause I really, I can buy into a lot of them these days.

- Yeah, it's, especially when you go down the Bitcoin rabbit hole, it's, you know, when you realize and it's not an opinion, it's provable what they've done and what they're doing with the money.

And when you understand that there's no question there and that what they're doing is really destructive and really evil, you think, well, if you're prepared to do that, which is despicable because it really is stealing people's time.

It's taking time away from them and their families and you only get one life on this world or at least that's what I believe. And so, you know, it'd be nice to be able to spend that time with family, but instead people are being stolen from and having to work like slaves just to keep on the barrel so that they don't drown

and it's getting harder and harder and harder. And when you understand that they're doing that, it's easy then to think, well, why wouldn't they do all this other stuff? We know they've lied about so many things and although it's easy to fall down that rabbit hole, it's also, I did it in the COVID times

and what I found is it's not particularly useful. Like, for me anyway, I found all it did is just make me angry and less productive and lose focus a little bit. And then I sort of had to pull myself round and go, listen, you can go down all these rabbit holes and most of them are probably right, but what's it doing?

- Right. - You know, shouting, shouting. - You can't change that. You have to do for yourself. I agree and I am definitely easy to go down a rabbit hole and I definitely believe many things are being thrown at us to poison us, but I tried to put it out of my head, do the best I can for my family and I think that is all you can do

because yes, you'll get very angry thinking about it and you can't take on the whole world. - Or you can, but you have to do it in a sly roundabout way and I think that's Bitcoin. - Yes. - It's a very clever way and I think it is the only way other than the personal responsibility stuff, which I know you guys do as well.

Obviously the mestadale and everything else that you guys are involved in and a massive one is, well, what's your family eating? That's something that you guys, it looks like you're getting on top of and making sure that the kids and you guys are fueled with the best quality stuff that hasn't been messed around with

and that's a huge, huge step forward. - Yeah, that's very important to us. I, well, we bought a cow, as you know. - Yes, did you find it? Did you find it? - Well, it's whereabouts are known, but it is not secure at the moment.

Topographically, we do not have the land to ride a horse out and lasso a cow and bring it home, nor do we have the expertise to do so. So it's very rough to get to, through the train, to get this cow and when you get to it, what are you gonna do?

It's 560 pounds, so it just runs away and gives you the finger and, you know. - Thanks. - Yeah, I give you a hoof and that's it. So we're just kind of waiting for that bastard to go to a place that we can wrangle it a little easier with the help of some other people, I guess.

I don't know. - I shouldn't laugh. I shouldn't laugh. - It's heartbreaking for John 'cause he, when he makes a decision, it is never lightly. There are many, many hours of thought goes into things and then he finally pulls the trigger to get this cow, this steer, and within 12 hours it's gone.

So it is heartbreakingly hilarious, but at least we know it is in the vicinity of where it ran away from at his, on his friend's property, but I have faith that we'll get it back and it's gonna taste really good when we finally do get to eat it.

You know, I had a lot of struggle about getting animals for ourselves and just a very overly emotional person. I don't wanna know this cow. I don't wanna see this cow. I don't want anything to do with it if I'm gonna have to eat it and I'd probably be eating it through tears, but now that it's wronged us so badly,

it's gonna be great, I'm over it. So I'm looking forward to it. Yep, I guess that was God's will for sure. They get me over myself and I cannot wait to cook with that thing. So hopefully that'll go down smooth and then the next cow won't have to run away because I'll be over my little head trip.

Yeah, it was, I felt bad laughing on the group because John was like, we got the cow. We got the cow and I was like, oh, that's awesome. And then I didn't reply. I looked back, you know, a few hours later and it was like, we've lost the cow.

(laughing) And it was like the little picture of it just like off in the woodland and just like there it is with a little circle. I was like, oh no, but I'm sure you, I'm sure you will get the cow back.

And just to see that you're taking these steps and also the chickens as well. And that's something that more and more people in Bitcoin world are starting to do. And I don't think many of them probably would have done it without.

It's this constant encouragement from all sides where it's like, okay, you've got your Bitcoin, now you wanna make sure it's secure and now you wanna make sure it's private and you go through all those steps and you learn all that stuff.

And then it's like, oh, by the way, if you thought about now that you're gonna have this better money, like maybe making the most of your life so you're healthy and you live longer. Oh, how do we do that?

And so then it's into the food and exercise and how to look after yourself and the mental side of things as well. And all the rest of it. And what I really like is that there are people with masses of knowledge in all these different areas and they're all just coming together and sharing that knowledge.

And I almost feel like as a unit, sounds really cultish now, back to that cultish idea, but as a cult, we are getting stronger, fitter, smarter, wealthier. So if it is a cult, it's like, that's quite a good one, actually, like it's not bad.

- I am happy to be a part of it. You know, I really wanted to start a garden this year, but I never had the chance. I got so busy with the kids and all their stuff at the end of the school year and all the stuff that comes with the beginning of summer.

So I didn't get to do it, but it is definitely coming next year. I follow some people on Twitter that are into homesteading and gardening and this one fella rev hodl. He's making pickles and stuff.

And I like, oh my gosh, I can't wait any longer because this stuff, you know, it just looks delicious and you can't buy salsa like you can make homemade. So that is my next adventure, is gardening, canning, doing all of that fun stuff.

I've never done that before. That's gonna be something I need to really wrap my brain around, but the nice thing is that I do feel like I could, you know, reach out to any one of these guys and ask them how to do certain things and they would be happy to help me.

And that's wonderful to have that. I'm not out on my own just guessing. - Yeah, it's a goal of mine as well as soon as we move. So the next time I move is gonna be a proper sort of, I don't know, probably at least a couple of years will be staying there, which would be amazing for me because normally it's move, move, move, move, move.

And that's gonna be the first thing is some vegetables and fruit and getting a little bit more sorted. We haven't got room for a cow, but. - Well, the chickens don't take up too much space and they've been wonderful.

The chickens have been like the best thing we ever did. I wish we would have done that years ago and they're sweet. So yeah, if anybody's thinking about getting chickens, do it, they're wonderful.

- Yeah, maybe that's an option. Probably annoy the neighbors quite a lot, but that's fine. We can settle in. The other thing is to start mining. I know it's not gonna be profitable for me in the UK.

It's just something I have to suck up and accept, but I wanna try a bit of mining at home and use the heat in some clever way. So it might end up being that we use it in the greenhouse or we do something with growing some sort of produce or something like that.

I mean, I know a lot of people are doing pools and that kind of stuff. I just don't think we have the room for anything like that, but I like this idea of using the heat to grow fruit or veg or do something where we then consume that.

I don't know why I just quite like that idea. - Well, then you know that it's not for nothing and they sure do have you guys all screwed up over there that you can't have any profit if you do mine.

That's terrible. - I know it's ridiculous. Well, our prices are gonna double again in October. So like we'll have, I mean, over in America, you guys have got way bigger properties than we have, like especially where I am in the UK 'cause property prices here are just fucking ridiculous.

So for like a tiny little too bad, we'll be talking about, and like we're pretty reasonable with our electric usage. Like I always, regardless of what I think about the climate change stuff, I will always turn the light off when I go out the room.

I'll never leave anything running unnecessarily. I'm not wasteful with anything. Like, you know, it's just why would you do it? It's not that hard to turn the light off. So we're pretty good with stuff like that, but we'll probably be talking about equivalent of about $600 a month just for our gas and electric

and we don't really use anything. Like we bought the kettle a few times a day. We might use the oven once a day. You know, the odd light is on. We don't really even watch TV like I have my computer running and you're talking about it's probably a $600.

And so it's like, Jesus, like where does this stop? - Yeah, that is disheartening to mine. I don't know. I don't know how you make it over there. At that rate, that's terrible. I don't know what to say.

That's just terrible. And I look at our bills here and I think that they're just terrible, but well, they're nothing compared to that. So I'll stop complaining. - It swings them around about.

So I mean, there are good things about the UK. It's a relatively good place to live. We can win gin, bitch and moan. And I do, but compared to the majority of the world, we're very lucky.

Like really, really lucky. It's relatively safe, although someone was murdered about literally 500 meters from me two days ago. But relatively it's pretty good. And yes, the prices are high and stuff like that.

But I just think sometimes you've got to be grateful for what you've got and I don't shit myself leaving the house where we are now. I'm not like, ah shit, I'm gonna be killed. - Well, that's good.

- You know, that's good. And not everyone has that. Our money is fucked, but no more than you guys or you know, not in other places, compared to a lot of other places we're doing all right.

So yeah, it's not the best. It will get better, especially on a Bitcoin standard eventually. But yeah, pretty grateful. It's not too bad. - Well, I'm glad to hear you're not shitting yourself every time you leave the house.

- Well, I mean, sometimes I do, but it's not through fear. It's usually from a heavy night out or you know, whatever else it is, a curry the night before. - Self-induced. - Yes, I'm getting older now.

So everything's falling apart. - I understand that completely. I was riding my daughter's scooter up and down the driveway the other day, 'cause they were all riding scooters. And I thought, okay, I'm gonna join in and I have severely sprained both of my ankles in the past.

But I just wanted to feel like free, like a kid again. So I rode this scooter up and down the driveway, maybe three or four times. The next day I like was walking like a zombie with my one leg dragging along, 'cause my ankle was so sore that I had been pedaling with.

And I was like, this is terrible. I am not even 40 yet, and this really impacted me negatively. Just a few spins up and down the driveway on this thing. But it did feel good for that moment.

So I guess it was worth it. I would do it again, but that was more. - The zombie feeling was worth it. - Yes. - Have you ever, or you won't watch this properly, but if you ever want a proper bit of British culture, there's a film called "Shawn of the Dead."

It's a comedy. - Yes, we've watched it. - Which is worth it. - I'll have you. - Yes. - It's a very stupid comedy, but it is funny. - Yeah, we liked it. Well, John and I, when we first met, kind of bonded over a video game that we had both played separately, earlier in our lives that was about zombies.

And so that was kind of a thing we had in common, and then we played that game together. So zombie things are a thing there for a little while. - That's so sweet. - I know, and he just saw that game popped up on the Xbox of the day, and he said, "Oh, we should play that again at Halloween time."

Meanwhile, I can't play that game anymore because I get too scared. And I'm like peeing my pants and screaming. So I just have to watch. But when I was younger, I was much braver apparently, 'cause I beat all three of those games by myself.

And I was just a teenager then, and, but now no, I can't do it. But I do enjoy watching him play. (laughs) And I still scream and pee my pants a little bit, but it's a little better. - So now you guys have transitioned a little bit, and you are now defeating the zombies in real life.

That's the difference. It's no longer a game you are now. - I feel that way. Yeah, every day. I look around, if I leave the house, which I generally prefer not to, I refuse to go into most grocery stores.

I just can't deal with these zombies and the unawareness of everyone and the disgustingness of everybody. It's maddening to me. So when I do go out and I see this, it really, that throws me down a rabbit hole.

Like, what is happening to us? Why do we look like this and feel like this and then I think about chemtrails and aluminum in the soil and all that whole thing. So I just, I prefer not to go out.

I go to work and I have my clients there and they're all cool. So I just stick with them and my friends and yeah, the grocery store is a, it makes me spiral. - You maybe don't need to go so often if you've got the cow and the chickens and everything else.

- Exactly. - And then so. - Now that's energy. - Yes, exactly. And then if we play it forward, let's play it forward, you know, 20 years. Where could we be and what could be happening with Bitcoin as with all this regenerative agriculture and the kids who are growing up now and these Bitcoin families today,

what will they be doing and what will the food and the land look like and if I picture that, where do I think, although we don't talk about price too much, I do think that Bitcoin is gonna be insanely valuable.

And so what does that allow these stronger families to do and how does that separate from the rest of society? Because, you know, I think we're all at the moment having to compromise on some fronts, you know, like three days a week, I'm sat in a van driving 15 hours a day, just trying to pay the bills.

And in those times, I don't always eat the perfect diet and I don't get to spend as much time with my family as I'd like to. And not everything is aligned with where I'd like to be but where do we go in that time and how things change, I think, could be pretty dramatic.

I hope so. That is the reason we do all this is to make improvements for the future. So I think that we're chipping away at it. I've never doubted any of this or thought it was not for the betterment of the future.

And I think everything that you do and spreading the word and talking to everybody and getting different perspectives on many different topics, you know, that is so important because although I'm not a technically savvy person, you know, I'm not gonna be building my own immersion system any day soon.

But I do enjoy hearing you talk to other people. I really enjoyed your interview with Ben Gunn and he was very fascinating to me and some of the things he said were just really hit home with me, but it doesn't matter if you are a intellectual person or a technical person.

You can listen to all of your pods and gain some sort of goodness from them. Some sort of knowledge and some sort of feeling like, well, this is all gonna be okay. - Well, that's good to hear.

It's weird to see how it's developed because early days, it was really just to stop me going insane. It was really genuinely just to be like, I need to speak to people, I need to learn more, I need to find my group of people who understand what the fuck I'm talking about.

And it was a bit slow at the beginning, but it's been really nice seeing it develop and just getting to meet these people. And a lot of people who, you know, they come on the show, they end up being friends when we speak in the background and, you know, people like Ben, he's just a brilliant guy.

Like he's brilliant. - Yes, I had never listened to that until recently because it was over two hours long. I have no attention span. But I always do listen in, you know, segments. My girls don't let me listen to anything.

And so it's usually when I'm at my salon and I'm usually the last one there and I'm like cleaning up and doing paperwork and I will turn it on for probably half an hour there. But I did recently listen to that and I came home and I told John and I was like, "Oh, that Ben Gunn, he really can just talk."

And he doesn't, I didn't hear Max say too much on that interview and he's like, "Yeah, well, you know, he has a let's talk about it." I was like, "Oh man, I don't know how I'm gonna do this podcast.

"I don't know what I'm gonna talk about." I can't talk like Ben Gunn, I really, I spiraled over that one but yes, he had so much to talk about but he was relatable. He just had a nice way of speaking that kept me engaged.

I really enjoyed that interview. I enjoy everybody that you have on there but that one, he made some points that really hit home. So yeah, he's cool. It was a really special day, I was, well, first of all, I was like, I said to my Mrs, I'm off, I won't say where but well in the countryside, I'm off, I'll see you later.

I'll see you in a couple of days. And she's like, "You gonna be all right? "Yeah, yeah, I'll be all right, that's fine." Who are you meeting? "Well, it's this guy off the internet, I'll be all right."

Right. Where are you going? Well, in the middle of this woodland and I'm telling you like, it is in the middle of nowhere. When I arrived and my phone, zero signal, nothing, I couldn't get hold of anyone, didn't know where they were.

The sat-nav had taken me just literally into the middle of a wood and all you could see for miles and miles and miles is woodland. I'm thinking, I wonder if I'm gonna get shot and buried out here?

I do wonder. Right, you never know. You never know. And so anyway, about another hour passes and then Ben comes and he has his dog and we're chatting and it was amazing. He showed me all the woodland and everything he's been doing.

And I knew that he'd been slogging away in that woodland and literally not lifted his head up, sleeping in a shed, just work, work, work, work, literally just working his bollocks off. And he showed me what he'd been doing and it was incredible to see.

And it was one of the first times where I got to experience in person just how hard these guys are working and why they're doing it as well because a lot of them don't necessarily have to, but they want to see change.

And so it was a special moment for me because it was someone taking me into a place where no one else had been, it was completely in the middle of nowhere and just like a normal, genuine conversation at the top of a mountain with birds messing around, our dogs just going mental around our feet.

And yeah, these are the connections that you don't get to experience with normies. And the kindness from these guys, Ben and many others, it's like I've got friends that I've known my whole life who if I phoned them and said, "I'm in real serious trouble, serious trouble, "can you come and help me now?"

Not all of them would, probably a small percentage would. I've got a couple who I know, they'll be there, but I've got a lot more Bitcoin and so I know it'd be there and they would definitely be there.

And the same the other way around, it's like there's so many people that I've got to know. This is the invaluable part that we're talking about earlier. It's like we've got a group of proper ride or die people who are there and that is just invaluable.

- Yes, and that is something that I think we have also worked on on our end with the people we do surround ourselves with in real life. We want to be around people that even if they may not be Bitcoiners, that's not necessary to qualify you, but as long as you're open-minded

and you distrust the government, then we're good. So well, that's who we choose to spend our time with these days, I don't have any time for arguments or not to say that I can't see somebody else's side, but some people are just so polarizing in their beliefs

and I don't have anything left in me for that. So we just generally spend our time with the people that are like-minded and it has made our lives better. - Yes, and so some of these people, you and John have now introduced me to, it's nice how this works is the people who are now

in this Bitcoin mining month chat are just incredible. I mean, there's some of the smartest people I've ever met. They're all here for a whole month just giving their time, sending photos of their setups, giving advice and doing all this stuff.

And I'm now having the pleasure of getting to know them through you guys and around and around it goes that you get these connections. I was speaking to John about this the other day. I was like, oh my God, I'm getting to meet these incredible miners who just know so much stuff that I wasn't aware of.

And he's like, yeah, well, I need to know a bit more about privacy. I'm like, okay, I've got you covered. I'll introduce you and it's just, yeah, it feels as though throughout the community, every base is covered.

- Exactly. - There's never a time where you're like, ah, does anyone know, like literally whatever it is, it's like, ah, does anyone know a biochemist? Yeah, I know like 10 and like I can.

- This guy's the limit, anything, anything you can think of. And there's somebody that somebody knows that knows everything about that because everybody that is in this throws their whole self into whatever it is that they're accomplishing from their mining or whatever it may be that they are connected with Bitcoin through.

And they all have, you know, the same OCD. So they know everything about that particular topic, which is great. It's a great use of OCD. So. - Do you think that's a trait that runs through the majority then, the sort of almost obsessive nature?

- There's no question about it. And I don't think that's a bad thing. I think it's a, this is the best application for that because you're making good use of your obsessiveness and you have to be obsessive in a way because you have a lot of hurdles.

You have a lot of knowledge that you have to gain before you put anything to work for yourself. So I think that it is necessary to be obsessive compulsive in the Bitcoin community. And I do not think that's a bad thing.

I think it's what's getting it done. I know John's OCD. And that's, you know, that's why I say when he says, okay, and like Bitcoin is what, that's what I'm doing now. It's like, well, better, we, that's what we do now.

And this one has been more of the more pleasurable OCD things we have enjoyed together. So I wasn't really having a good time when we were into juicing or keto or any of these other things that aren't exact.

You're juicing with fruit and veg or juicing with steroids, which one. (laughing) - Just fruits and vegetables, all natural. But we were, it was more vegetables than fruit and herbs and it was just disgusting.

It was like when he would make the apple juice, it was delicious, but then he would put like all this other stuff in there. - Turmeric and stuff. - Oh, and parsley and kale. And I remember him handing me one day and I just went out on the back porch and was just like, I can't do this anymore, just tears running down my face.

This is disgusting. And that was it for me. I did, I recognized the health benefits. That's great. It's a huge pain in the ass and a big cleanup too. So I'm glad we're past that. The keto diet may be grossed out.

I don't like to eat meat that much or cheese. You know, like it was like just felt like really heavy. So I'm glad we're past that. So I'm happy. I know that this Bitcoin is not a fad for him, obviously.

He's been interested for years and it's become a way of life for him and there's no turning back. - Yeah, I think there is no way out. Have you got any thoughts about where the mining setup goes at home?

Because I know that you've got a new tank recently. I think I saw it being sprayed the other day or a couple of days ago. Do you think that that is gonna continue to build out or are you getting to a point at home where you're like, right, there's only a certain amount of space at home.

Let's now, I wanna have my kitchen and bathroom. Let's not start taking that space. Let's keep it confined to an area or what's happening. 'Cause I can only assume that John is gonna wanna expand things.

- I think that I am more, I don't wanna say more interested, but I am just as interested in expanding things here. I wanna be and as all in on this as possible, he has always kept the miners nicely contained.

They have been in the basement, there's one in the attic, they've been in the garage, and that's fine. I have no complaints. They kept us warm all winter excessively sometimes, but I enjoy the hum from them, and so I'm kinda sad about them going to be in the immersion system, 'cause I won't get to hear that anymore,

but I just asked him this morning, when can we get the 400 watt amp service from the electric company double the space? So he has a contract now for the electricity that's up in January, so he said we would revisit it then, but we do have a few acres here,

and I'm thinking let's put up a pole barn, let's do these different things. Yes, line it up in our rear property faces another road, get that to have an address, and get that to have power service, and double down on that, and just slide it up up here.

I just, I know that miners are not cheap, but they are cheaper now, and let's like just do everything we can to max it out, which I think he looks at me sometimes like, I'm doing all I can.

I know that, but I just, I don't know, I just, I don't know if I'm greedy or what, but I just want as much of that pie as we can get with what we have. We are resources here in our land, and there is plenty of land to have more, so I'm not concerned about, he can put them wherever he wants.

I just want them put somewhere, so we can reap the benefits. Amazing. Well, I need to do some catching up. I feel like such a fraud, 'cause we're doing this mining month, and I'm like, I don't even have one miner running that I've got myself.

They're all hosted. I've not even got one measly terra hash, just pathetic, so I do feel like a bit of a fraud, but I am hoping that at the end of this month, I'll have learned quite a lot, and I can make a decision on things, and finally get one set up, and I'll be sending some photos and bits and pieces,

but I do worry that I will get very, very addicted, and it's gonna become a sick obsession. - Yeah, I mean, it's like, well, we have these, why don't we just have more? It's difficult because I feel like you, this is just the beginning,

and this will be very valuable someday, so I don't wanna look back and say, I wish we would have done more, to have more. I never wanna have regrets like that, so I'd rather just be all in as much as we possibly can, and know that we did our best and tried our hardest to get as much as we could.

- Is there anything that scares you or worries you about Bitcoin anymore? Are there any times that you have a sleepless night or you suddenly think, "Ah, what about this?" Or, "What about that?"

Are there any bits where you're thinking, "Oh, I could see a potential problem here," or not necessarily within the system, but possibly, well, what about the government or what about the stupid laws that they try and pass, or is there anything where you have in the back of your head and you're like, "Hmm, this worries me a little bit."

- I wouldn't say worries, though the government always worries me, and I do, I'm sure they see it as a threat, so they don't like those. I don't let myself go down that rabbit hole of letting them control my thoughts or letting me, I don't let myself worry about it.

I would rather, at the end of the day, have exhausted all of our money and resources to try to better our life and it not work out because of the government or whatever the powers may be.

I would have rather went down with a fight than not. I think that money isn't worth anything anyway, so I'd rather try to obtain something that is, and I think it's the best hope anybody has to build a better future, so I just don't let myself worry.

I used to be a very big warrior. I used to have lots of sleepless nights and I would get anxious about things, but since we have three kids and all of these other things going on, I don't let my mind go there.

It's just not important. We're just gonna hope for the best. So I think that's all you can do. - Yeah, I think that's a good way of looking at it. You sort of know the risks are potentially there, but it's like, well, what else are you gonna do?

- But the rewards are there too. Like it has, you have to risk it or you, there's nothing to gain. If you're just gonna stay in the system and be a normie and make a menial money that is worthless, what's the point of life?

Like, I wanna do more and be better and I know that I'm gonna do everything I can on my end to achieve that. And this seems like the best opportunity that's come along in decades. - And the freedom aspect is just like, it's massive.

I mean, that's the thing that really gripped me at the beginning is like, when it started to click, I was like, oh my God, this is gonna fuck the governments. - Right. - Oh God, it's like, this is mental.

And once you, well, once I got that into my head, I was like, I know what these bastards have done. I know what they're doing and I know what they're planning. If my last breath is trying to destroy these bastards, I'll be happy.

And so once you have that, you're like, well, it doesn't really matter. It really doesn't. And if you end up, I mean, worst case scenario, I've thought, especially in the COVID stuff, I was like, do you know what?

I think I'm probably gonna end up in a cage. They're probably gonna lock me away. And I thought, well, the way things are going, they're probably gonna do it anyway. I just might have a few more shitty years, you know, until they do it, but at least I'll be fighting when I go out, at least they'll be in effort.

And at least, you know, if I'm on my deathbed, I can look back and go, I gave it a go. I can at least be proud of that. And I look at like what my grandparents went through and then I look at the life that I've had.

And I think, well, maybe not exactly my life, but the average person in our generation, I think, well, it's been a lot easier. Like you look at what they went through. They went through real proper hardship and they came out the other side and they could be proud of some of the things that they've done when I was thinking,

well, I'd rather be that. I'd rather like go to war and even if it doesn't work out for me, at least I've tried. And I think that's kind of the view, obviously you guys have gotten, that most Bitcoiners have got.

And so that fills me with confidence because I think, well, there's this backstop, there's this group of people who they won't turn off their nodes no matter what the law says. They won't stop coin joining no matter what the law says.

They won't stop mining no matter what the law says. And they won't back down. And so it only takes a small minority to make massive change. And I do think like it may be it's overly optimistic and I know a lot of the odds are stacked against us and I know that it's kind of David and Goliath stuff, but I do feel confident.

I do feel like good will win out and it might be another decade, but it kind of feels, it's the first time I've felt positive for 20 years. Like, it's the first time I've been like, shit, we're gonna win.

(laughs) We've got a chance. Things are gonna be all right. - Right, we have a fighting chance. I totally agree with that. If you ask me, I think that our grandparents' generation would prefer to have had it the way they did because at least they were in a fair fight and they knew their enemy at that time

with World War II and everything. If you explain to them what's going on today, what's really going on, I don't think that they would think this is worse.

- True. - It's hard, you can't defeat something that nobody else sees and you can't convince people to see it because they're brainwashed. So it makes it hard to defeat an enemy that all these zombies are just going along with, following along and like happily doing it.

And if you are not following along, then you're some piece of shit that is just going against people just to do it. I don't know, I see people, some other, they'll be out of my children's school.

There'll be maybe a handful of other moms that don't want them to wear masks and things. And then all the other people like make fun of them like they're freaks. Why would you want your child to wear a mask?

Don't you get it? I don't even care about, you know, coronavirus aside, a child wearing a mask, that's disgusting because they're touching that mask with their dirty little hands all day.

And there is, the whole thing is just so corrupt and controlling and contrived. I can't stand any of the mask stuff anymore. If that ever comes back, the kids are being homeschooled, I'll just become a day drinker at that point because I will not participate in that shit anymore.

- Yeah, me too, me too, it's very frustrating. And like you said about people not knowing who the enemy is and they're being invisible. It's almost, it's like a torturous thing because the frustration, I mean, I've got better with it now but certainly through the COVID stuff, I found it to be torture because I was trying to say

to family and friends, well, in fact, they would bring up something utterly ridiculous that they had copied from the news or that they had been told. And there are just huge flaws in what they're saying.

And so I couldn't help myself from saying like, "Well, have you considered the X, Y, Z?" And then it was very painful to see people that you love. Firstly, treat you with such disrespect.

You're a conspiracy theorist, don't be an idiot, you think you know better than blah, blah, blah, blah, the doctors, the nurses, yeah, whoever, the science. And then to go along and do things which you know are gonna harm them and if they're not gonna harm them, then at the very least it's just utterly pointless.

And you see children who are lacking social skills because everyone's wearing masks and they're locked away and they're missing their friends and all the other issues and people are committing suicide and all this pain and all this suffering for nothing or certainly not what they think it's for.

You're the enemy because, oh, you're not getting vaccinated, you're not wearing a mask, you're the problem, you're, you know, all of that propaganda, the NHS fucking clapping, you know, everyone would go out or whatever it was, five o'clock outside all the houses and clap on their little porch, on their little doorstep.

Oh, thank you NHS that we fucking pay for with our taxes and it's shit basically, it's shit. You know, it's not free, it's paid for and they're all clapping for being locked away and you're like, this is proper weird propaganda and we were lucky enough that we were already in the Bitcoin community, we already had a few friends,

you know, self-banked and his wife, they're properly based, they're in the UK and you know, they came around for dinner a couple of times and we got to see cool people like that who were like, this is madness and they're both doctors and they were like, it's mental.

And so we were lucky that we had that but it was hurtful and it's still creating divides even now, even though it's basically sort of finished but you know, even now it's like my aunties got shingles or most of my family all got facts, they've all got problems.

Me and my Mrs. didn't, we're absolutely fine, we've never had any issues. If I say, don't go and get another jab because you've got COVID like five times, you've been really, really sick since you've had it, it's proven it doesn't fucking work, it doesn't stop spread, it doesn't stop you getting it

'cause you've had it five times and you're ill again, don't go and get another jab. - Oh no, I'm gonna do it 'cause we were told that's the science, well the science was wrong. We've just gone through that.

I've just gone through how the science is wrong, how can you not see that? And no matter how much you let out, no matter how obvious it is to anyone with a brain cell, they will just not do it.

And that's why I do think it is brainwashing because these are not stupid people. They're not and they will not for any reason, they refuse to think any other way. There is no discussion, that's all that there is.

You're an idiot and you're gonna get killed because you didn't get this vaccine. I just don't even understand, you don't even do any research about what you're gonna put in your body or your child's body.

I can't understand that lack of thought. It's such a big deal to put something in your body permanently or semi permanently. And just to go along completely thoughtless, it is insane to me.

But my family for the most part is the same way. I know my dad didn't wanna get it and he ended up bending the knee because he works at a hospital and he was gonna lose his job and he's close to retirement.

But everybody else, they were happy to, they were like, my grandma was so pleased that the vaccine came out. And I said, well, that's good for her 'cause she's in her 90s, if that makes her feel better, like whatever.

Because she wasn't leaving the house during lockdowns. And if that gave her the mental ability to be out and about and around everybody, then worth it. And she's not gonna suffer from it per se 'cause she is already gotten on with her life a little bit.

But these young people and especially children with the vaccines, it's a big problem for me. I just don't understand people putting on Facebook. You know, look at this. My five-year-old finally got the Vax and they're so proud of it.

And just cheering about it and it's sickening. You have to be on a different planet for me if you think any of this is worthwhile. - Yeah, my kid got the Vax finally. I think got myocarditis and they've been in a hospital for five days.

But thank God they had the vaccine because without it they would have died. Are you genuinely fucking retarded? - Well, what are you doing? - If they've already had probably 54 other shots at this point in their lives, so why not give them one more?

You know, I don't know what to tell these people that just pumped this poison into their kids so willingly. I used to think it was something I could talk to people about, but after so many people treated me like not vaccine, not vaccinating my children.

I was like a bad person and trying to kill them. I don't talk about it anymore to anybody. And even the vaccine for COVID, I, at clients at work and stuff, they're celebrating it and they go, did you get Vax?

I was like, oh, I'm gonna wait on that a little bit. I just, it's not worth the fight to me with these people because you're not gonna change their opinion. They're just gonna think that you're crazy.

So if you're not open-minded, I just don't bother with you because obviously you're missing something in your brain or you're not intelligent enough to think for yourself. I don't know what it is.

So. - I think you're right. There's no point in spending the effort. I think we all went through that little bit of a battle phase where you're like, you know, you look up all the figures and you're like, yeah, well, this doesn't make sense because look at this data and ruin.

You're like spending the time like trying to prove it all wrong and, you know, like map it all out. And like, this just doesn't make sense and trying to explain to people and it's really tiring and it doesn't get you anywhere.

It does just make people think you're a Looney and they don't care anyway. And so. - Right. And it doesn't make you feel better because they're not receptive in any way. So, you know, I gave that up years ago.

I remember being proud of not vaccinating our oldest and, you know, I told our family and I was like, yeah, we've decided not to do that. And oh, man, I mean, I must have just been so naive of just like, well, this is really a great decision.

And I'm mentioning that. And it was like, oh, oh, oh my God, what are you doing? Like even their pediatrician, well, we got kicked out of our initial pediatrician's office because we wouldn't vaccinate them.

And so I found a place that would accept us and the older doctor that was in the practice was only there once in a while. We wouldn't see him. We'd see one of the younger people that had just come into the practice.

And this smarmy doctor every time we were there because my youngest was underweight. She didn't want to eat. So she, I had to go to the doctor every three days or something to get her weight checked.

It was a whole thing, but at the same time, this doctor is constantly bothering me about getting her vaccinated. Why would I put poison into this girl who is already having trouble in the world and distressed within her body for whatever reason?

And she's not gaining weight and she's skin and bones. Oh, wow, that seems like something's a little messed up here. If you, your number one concern is to get this poison in her before she is cured of whatever ailment she has that is bringing me here every three days.

You know, we had already decided against the vaccines, but had we not, that would have been a huge red flag for me. I can't even understand how you push these things so hard.

Do these doctors, do they not realize? Are they brainwashed too? That they don't. - I think so. - Yeah, they might be. - I think it's more, I don't think for the most part, it's malice. I think that all of us have this little bit of group think and when you hear the same thing enough times, you believe it.

Like no matter how independent you think your thought is, we all suffer from it a little bit. If they've gone through the school system and then university and then training under another doctor and all the other people who are around them have the same thought and they're told the same thing over and over and then they're tested on it

in your only pass if you say XYZ. And if you were to question anything or speak out against anything, then you're suddenly the outcast. And I think just over time, that just starts to chip away and they start to believe.

And data is very, very easy to manipulate. It's why it's so difficult to disprove or prove anything anymore because everything is like, oh, well, you look at this graph and this shows, oh yeah, well, look at this graph and oh, look at this independent report that's not really independent,

it's been actually paid by Pfizer and all this stuff. And so I think that what's most worrying for me is not their offering things, it's the pushing. It's like, choose whatever money you want, choose whatever food you want, choose whatever drugs you want, choose whatever lifestyle you want, just as long as you have the choice.

But when someone says, nah, it's all right. I don't really want that thing that you developed in a lab. I'll just trust my body because it's done pretty well so far and humans have been around for quite a long time and we're pretty strong and tough.

And I'll be okay, I'll take the risk. If there is a risk, I'll take the risk. Where there's no real proof either way with a lot of this stuff, they're pushing. Whereas where there are things that are absolutely undeniable, they don't push at all.

I've never been to a doctor and them talk about diet or talk about anything that is or mental health, or I say mental health, they push a lot of the mental health stuff now, but not things that really fix it.

It's just here's a drug. Not have you considered going to the gym? Have you considered eating slightly differently? Have you considered not drinking four liters of Coca-Cola every day? You know, all this stuff that's really simple.

And so then it's like, well, where's the incentive here? Is it really to get people healthy? Or is it to sell drugs? Is it for an agenda? And I think, when you look at it through that lens, it's like whether you and I are right or wrong, like I'm the same, like the vaccination thing, I'm like, no, no, thank you.

Could be wrong, like I'm actually, I'm not smart enough, I don't know. Like I'm not sure. I can't stand here as confidently about all that stuff as I can with Bitcoin. I'm very confident on Bitcoin.

With the other stuff, I'm like, I feel this way, I think this way, I've done a bit of research, could have done more, but I'm fairly confident, but I wouldn't wanna bet my life on it. I'll put it that way.

But the way that they fight against anyone who has any question is like they're 100% sure, but when you sort of scratch even surface deep, they can't answer the most basic questions. And they don't know about basic health.

They don't understand anything about diet. I mean, I've spent a fair amount of time in hospitals recently, and the average person who's working there and the doctors who are working there are grossly obese, they look like they're gonna die, and they're giving health advice, and you're like, don't really wanna take this advice from you.

- Right, and that's another thing that I've done research on is nutrition. I have a condition called polycystic ovarian syndrome, so I'm insulin resistant, and it's a problem for me because I can't lose weight, it's just a struggle, but I've done a lot of research in this arena, and I've come to find out, you know,

when I was younger, everything I knew about losing weight was from my parents who used to go to Weight Watchers, and in Weight Watchers, they teach you to drink diet pop and use margarine and all these fake foods.

So I had to really wrap my brain around all that because I kinda thought that when I was younger, that that was how it was done, and then I read a few books, then it totally enlightened me, like, everything everybody is doing to lose weight is not good, and it's really compromising their weight loss,

and I can't believe that nobody knows this, it's not like it took a ton of energy or time to figure this out for myself. So I know what you're saying is that you look around, like, what are you doing?

You're not right, how could you give advice to anybody else about weight loss or anything else? I mean, obviously you haven't figured it out for yourself, so, yeah-- - They look like death.

They look like death. - Yeah. - They're 40, 50, and they look 80, and they're there saying, "Oh, well, let me tell you, if you don't follow this advice, you're gonna be really unhealthy."

I'm like, "Listen, bitch, you're in the fucking dark way before me, you don't know what you're talking about." The most crazy thing is, like, if I say to people, well, before you do any drugs, before you do anything that you've been told by a doctor, try this for a month, drink only water, get eight hours of sleep, train every day,

eat proper food that you could have only, and as a caveman, try that for a month. If you're still really not happy and you're really sick and you've really got problems, then okay, consider having the drugs, but try that, but the thing is that everyone is too much hard work, and it's like, "Oh no, my doctor has told me

I need to be on this drug for the rest of my life," and they just do it because they can't be bothered to put the work in, and I know from personal experience, I've had serious depression, I've been on every single medication going, I was a complete fruit loop, really not well, and that's what I did, and it bloody works,

like it works so much better than everything else, it's just like get your ass in the gym, go and eat well, sleep, and at the end of it you're like, "Shit, this really works." - It's really not hard, the simpler the better, get sunshine, eat the butter, and the things that are as natural as possible.

Now that's not to say that I don't, I mean, I like to eat pizza too, but in general, we pretty decently around here, and I just think that I would rather be a little bit overweight because I have this problem with my insulin and everything, but I'd rather be healthy because I know that I'm healthier

than most of these people that I see drinking diet Pepsi and eating shit snacks all day, it blows me away. In fact, we went recently to a ballgame with friends of ours and the wife is a nutritionist and a personal trainer, and then I see her son who is one of my daughter's age,

and he's drinking this big thing of diet pop. I would never, ever let my children drink diet pop for any reason, I couldn't believe it. I was like, that's poison, but I know that she's gone to college and learned these things, and that's what they teach them is good.

And I go to the endocrinologist and she says, well, what are you doing? How are you eating and this, that, and the other? And I'm like, well, I'm intermittent intermittent. You know what I'm saying?

- Yeah, I know what you're saying. - I'm fasting, and she's like, oh, you're not eating breakfast. I was like, no, I'm just, you know, powering through the morning, and then I eat my eggs and stuff for lunch, I was doing that for a long while, and she's like, oh, I don't recommend that,

you should get up and I'm like, what is wrong with you? That is exactly what I should do. - I'm a bowl of fruit loops. - Right, oh, yeah, exactly. So, you know, I just don't put much value into the healthcare system at all.

I go see my chiropractor every two weeks, and if I have an issue, I talk to her because she is the most based person I know in healthcare and she doesn't put anything in her body that isn't real, and she's been very good for me to have in my life.

She's a based person in general, so I talk to her, but beyond that, you won't catch me seeking much advice from anyone in the healthcare industry. - That fiat industry is the problem. It's never preventative, it's always reactive.

I think that comes down to this time preference thing. It's so difficult for people to just even think a month out. Everything needs to be now, now, now. It's the whole reason all this like diet culture is like, oh, take this pill and do this one week workout and you're gonna look like this person who's on steroids

and that, you know, all the selling is like that. And it's like people are, it seems a little bit afraid of just hard work. And I can even catch myself sometimes, like I said to you, I do a load of driving at the moment.

I do the intimacy and fasting, but if you're driving for 15 hours, you know, I go with black coffee and, you know, I might get, if I leave the house at sort of five, six a.m., it gets to about five o'clock in the afternoon and I'm like, I actually need to eat now.

I'm now really hungry. And I catch myself sometimes like looking at a McDonald's or something like that. And I'm like, oh, I need it. And I start to play in my head, oh, I need it because if I don't, you know, I'm gonna be weak and I'm not gonna be able to get through the day and all this stuff.

And then I have to stop myself and think, you soft bitch, there are people in the world who don't eat for 10, 20 days at a time and they would kill to have had the meal you had last night.

And you'll be fine, just grow up, have some water, have a coffee and move on with your life. But I do have to have that conversation with myself because I'm like, you get into this like comfort mode of like, oh, I haven't eaten or, oh, you know, this soft mentality, that is just, you know, how we're sort of brought up, how we're taught.

But once you break through that and you've done it a few times, once you've pushed yourself to these limits, you start to, it's same with training. It's like, oh, I can't do anymore. Well, actually you can.

You can do two, three times what you've already done. You can do more. You can always do more. You're not gonna die. Until you sort of break that boundary, you just don't know. I just think that that's a big thing in this community is that people won't generally attack you too much unless there's malice, but they will push like,

I've got a lot of friends in the Bitcoin world too. Like I might say, I might have a winch about something. They'd be like, man, I might. I might, yeah. Good point. (laughing) Yeah, good point.

I do actually just need to man out. You just need to get on with life and you get through it and everything is just fine. Right, yeah, and for the most part, I think you can manage to get through life without the pills and without the fast food and just find easy things to cook for yourself and keep your body and mind nourished

and it doesn't have to be so time consuming and you don't have to juice, you know? I would not recommend that. But I recently read on one of the keto guys that I still follow, he had said,

what would I recommend to somebody to begin being more

healthy in their eating and he would say have eggs and fruit for breakfast. Like who can't make a scrambled egg real quick and grab an apple or some strawberries or whatever it may be that you have on hand?

That's so simple. And I think like he said lunch have like a piece of fish or something like that. It was all very simple stuff. And I think people are scared away from anything that they have to actually cook.

Yeah, but I mean, to me, making a scrambled egg isn't cooking. I think when you're combining multiple ingredients to make something maybe, but I don't know. And nothing he said was anything that couldn't be accomplished in 10 minutes or less.

So I think that people just need to get a different mindset about the ease of food and their laziness. They think that they need a microwave something or put it in the oven or I don't know.

I just, I don't understand it. I know that people I have known that have been on these like weight loss plans over the last several years and everything is full of fake sugar and all this stuff.

I think, okay, well, you're starving yourself 'cause you're eating these tiny packet portions that this nutritionist is giving you. And then you are, you know, you're hijacking your body because it's not getting the real sugar and you're gonna have some crazy insulin reaction.

But they keep doing this and they do lose weight because they're not eating enough. And eventually they have to stop this diet that it's not a lifestyle change. And then they gain it all back and 20 more or more.

I don't understand, haven't you seen this pattern enough to know that this doesn't work? You're gonna have to do something different. It said that's another easy way out. Well, I can just grab this and eat it real quick, which, you know, I understand the theory of that but I just don't know how it applies in the real world.

Yeah, nothing's free, nothing's easy. Proof of work is the only way. Yes, that's the truth. That's the moral of the story. Exactly. Well, Sarah, it's been awesome having you on the show. I know you were possibly a bit nervous about coming on 'cause you didn't think you had anything to speak about

and look, we are an hour and 40 minutes in. We've covered all the different topics, I think. Proven why we're right about everything and why everyone else is wrong about everything. And (laughs) That's all I ever set out to do.

Exactly. Yeah, I think it's probably a good place to close it out but I wanted just to say thank you so much for everything that you're doing with the mining month. It's really, really good to have you on board and I'm sorry, I've messed you around so many times with timings and just generally being a retard

but all of your help and ideas are much appreciated. I appreciate you helping out and doing everything that you've done. It's been really exciting. I don't think we'd even be here if it wasn't for you, you suggesting it after things fell apart with my other gig.

So I appreciate you putting it together or putting it in our minds to even make it happen and I hope we can continue this for years to come. So I'm having a good time. I'm glad you are too and I hope to talk to you again sometime.

Definitely. Well, maybe one day if the land of the free ever become free and I'm allowed to set foot in America, you guys can scramble me and egg and we can have some food and get the families together.

That would be wonderful. And I look forward to that day when we can all be together. Yeah, that'd be great. All right, well, yeah, thanks again and just stay on the line for a second and I'll make sure we get the audio saved.

Okay. Thanks for listening. I really hope you enjoyed that one. I cannot wait for this mining month. All of the giveaways, all of the content and just so much effort going into this. I think it's going to be incredible.

The plebeest of all the plebe miners are there and Sarah is whipping us all into shape to make sure things go smoothly. So check it out. It's going to be on ungovernable misfits.com. There is also going to be a load of content on Twitter and obviously it's going to be on the feed as well.

If you'd like to get involved, please reach out to me and we'd love to hear from you.