Privacy Defenders Samourai and Zelko introduce Sentinel, the watch only bitcoin wallet.

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.

Let's go!

Now, what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison. Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.

All right, you ungovernable misfits. I'm your host, Max. Everybody knows that Bitcoin is useless, worthless, and doomed to fail. But what if everyone's wrong? What if it's the system that is doomed to fail?

Join me as I speak to some of the brightest people in the space, and slither to the deepest, darkest depth of the Bitcoin rabbit hole.

I'm a little tired of the drama, the bullshit, the attention hauls, and the fakery in Bitcoin at the moment. So I needed a break from it, and what better break than to get people who are actually building, who actually care about privacy and freedom?

In case any of you have forgotten, that is why we are here at the end of the day to break away from the control, the theft, and the lies. Today's conversation is with Selco and Samurai. These are people that I have a huge amount of respect for.

They are running projects that actually matter, that help people transact, that help people stay private and secure. In today's episode, we talked about Sentinel. We talked about the history of it, why it's here, and where it's going.

I've been testing Sentinel for the last week or so, and I've been really impressed. If you haven't already tried it, I'm pretty sure you will do after this conversation, and for anyone who has any questions after this, we will be running a space that people can jump on, and you can also reach out and DM me.

It's late here, so we're going to start the show very soon. I just wanted to say a few thank yous. Firstly, to everyone who's been sharing this show with friends and family, a thank you to Samurai, Zelco, and the whole team for making such incredible software, for joining me on this show,

and also for creating a code for any of my listeners, who would like to buy a Tanto to get a discount, and for this show to be supported at the same time. If you go to RonanDojo.com and use the code "Ungovernable", you will get a discount.

This show will be supported, and everyone is a winner. Also, a reminder for anyone who's been living under a rock, "Ungovernable Misfits" has released a new clothing line. I have to say, I am proud of this.

Me and Mr. Crown have worked very hard on this. We have made sure that this is part of the Bitcoin circular economy, and we have gone to great lengths to make sure that this is of the highest quality.

We've also made a privacy defenders hoodie and t-shirt in collaboration with Samurai and RonanDojo. So if you haven't already, then go to ungovernablemisfits.com and check it out, I will put links in the show notes as well.

And finally, before we start the show, a huge thank you to my show sponsors. Without you, this show would not be able to continue. I'm very lucky to have sponsors who support me, despite knowing that I'd be shilling their products regardless.

It really is great to have the support of both these sponsors without having to sell the soul of the show. Let's start with foundation devices. Foundation devices make my favorite hardware.

Not only do they have an incredible team, but they keep things fully open source. They have QR code scanning for PSBTs, full-color display, and everything that you would want from a hardware device.

It is piss easy to use. This really is a cypherpunk tool for fuckwits. And we get into this a little bit in the show. Samurai and many others are adamant that nobody needs a hardware wallet.

And to some extent, I agree. But I don't like to keep all my eggs in one basket, and I suggest to anyone that I care about to do the same. I do not feel 100% confident generating keys in an offline manner on a device that has the ability to access the internet.

To me, a fuckwit, I would rather have a team building a purpose-built solution that is fully open source and simple to use. If you're in the same boat and you just want something that works out the box, this is it.

So go to foundation devices.com, ask them any questions, you can use the code ungovernable to let them know that I've sent you. And you can also reach out to me if you have any questions.

I will answer them openly. And honestly, I use this stuff. I love it, and that is why I have them as a sponsor. Check them out at foundation devices.com. And finally, and very quickly, S-X-6.store.

No, it's not a porn site. This is my good friend, Black Coffee. He's selling something that is very simple, and all of you should be using, in my opinion. He's selling stainless steel backup plates.

These are to stamp your seed into, rather than writing this down on a bit of paper that you could lose, or could burn, or get wet, or whatever else. Stamping it into marine grade steel will survive floods, almost all fires, and pretty much everything else.

You can get these from £16.99. It really isn't a huge investment to make sure you keep your Bitcoin safe. And again, if you have any questions about this, you can reach out to me. Go to S-X-6.store and use the code ungovernable.

Oh, are we all in? Oh, shit. Hang on. You were in the green room for fucking ages. Test, test, test. Yep, got you. Oh, really? OK. Yeah, yeah. Loud and clear. Nice. First time for everything?

I don't see any. You don't see the sound waves. No sound waves at all, but I believe you. Yeah, I can see them. It's glitchy, shitty software. I don't know why it does it, but I've got you.

It's recording, and it will record locally as well. So if we have any issues, we will call it. Well, nice to have you both back on. We've not done this before all three of us, have we? I don't think I've ever done one with Zilco.

Yeah, I'm not in all my world, too. You've got off lightly. Have you avoided that? I've had to have him on the show at least two or three times. I don't know, I was starting to take offence.

You're intimidating. That red wall, it's really... He's mean, isn't he? He's super mean. Well, I could chat to you both, literally for the entire evening about everything privacy and Bitcoin related.

But what I wanted to do today with your permission is to do something a little bit different and keep this short and sweet. Rather than go through all the different topics, there's one thing that I really wanted to cover.

I've realised I'm in a particularly privileged position. Where, when I fuck things up, which is very often, I can pick up a phone and I get help. I'd like to do something where we really dig into one topic and then have people be able to jump in on a space down the line.

And the thing that I'm really fucking impressed with at the moment and I've been playing around with today is sentinel. So, if it's cool with you two, can we jump straight into it? Let's do it. Yeah, absolutely.

Let's do, for anyone who hasn't looked into sentinel or played around with it, maybe do a bit of an overview of what it is, why it's here. Maybe, Samra, you can jump on that one. Yeah, sure.

Do you want me to go back to the roots of sentinel? Or as it is today in 5.0? Let's go back to the beginning and then where we are now. OK, cool. Yeah, so sentinel was... Originally conceived as a way to...

Well, OK, so Samra wallet existed already, but it was totally private and it was only available to a group of 50 to 75 people. So, it was a real closed alpha. And what we wanted to test user interface concepts, we were doing things that were different than any wallet was doing at the time

in regards to user interface and how a user would interact with a Bitcoin wallet. We wanted to test those concepts and theories that were the group that were larger than 75 people, but without the risk of private keys.

So, we're like, "Well, a watch-only wallet would be a perfect way to do this. There's no risk. We can't screw up any transaction signing. We can't screw up anything. It's all display only."

So, sentinel up until the latest version that you just played around with was really like the original version of samurai wallet in terms of look and feel. That was the goal with sentinel and then, you know, things took off with samurai.

We realized that, yes, we were successful in user interface. Yes, people liked interacting with a wallet this way and we opened up testing to a wider group. So, sentinel kind of became like the redheaded stepchild of the stack.

We just didn't have the bandwidth to be able to continue iterating on it and proving it. So, it just kind of sat there. It worked. It did what it was supposed to do, which was provide a watch-only experience for Bitcoin addresses or ex-pubs, et cetera, like that.

It was only recently that we had some more bandwidth that we were able to dedicate the love and attention to make sentinel even better than watch-only, which is where we're at today. And now, it's more like a, well, it can be a full wallet, right?

It doesn't have private keys still, but you can compose transactions. You can do all the things that you can do with a Bitcoin wallet using sentinel. OK, so that brings us up to today. And to be honest with you, until a few weeks ago, my view of sentinel was without being rude.

I was like, I just don't really see the point for me. I didn't really see why I would ever use it. And then I had a chat with a couple of people and started to dig into what it does. And it's a lot better than I thought it was going to be.

Like, it pretty much does now for me what my Sparrow was doing. I have a separate laptop that I use just for using my Sparrow and anything Bitcoin-y. And I'm now thinking like, I don't really fucking need it.

It does everything I was using it for. And I wasn't aware that this was possible. And then it made me think, well, really, all someone needs now for like a really fucking nice cold storage setup and being able to track everything and do PSBT and do all the different stuff and probably jump in the gun a little bit here.

But I'm looking at, I'm thinking you could have like just two old pixels running graphene or something similar and you are fucking good to go. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't put any Bitcoin related stuff on a laptop personally.

You know, I just don't do it. I don't think computers are secure at all, general PCs, even Linux-based PCs. You don't have the same security model that you do on an Android or an iPhone where everything is sandboxed.

So I just don't like, you know, that's the way I've always interacted with Bitcoin. It's been from a mobile first perspective. And just to jump back to, you know, you didn't see the use case for Sentinel originally.

As soon as you have to manage more than one wallet, you get the use case, right? So if I have a samurai wallet, you know, our quote unquote, "company funds," that's one wallet that I have to manage.

And then I have my own personal Bitcoin wallet that I like to manage. And then I have, you know, a different samurai wallet that belongs to the company that I like to manage. So that's three wallets now.

All of that could be watched with Sentinel. You could generate receive addresses to deposit with Sentinel just prior to the update. So the use case has always been there. We've just made it even more useful now, because as you say, you can do the PSBTs, you can make transactions, you can view UTXOs, all the things that it was, you know,

the original Sentinel was missing, not because we didn't think of it, just because we didn't have the time to do it. And so with basically having a couple of phones and then linking that to your node, you are in a very, very good spot.

You don't need any extra equipment. Fucking hell. Shit, sorry. I don't know what happened there. [LAUGHTER] Am I back? Yeah, what was the private jet or something? That was the dock that I have plugged into the fucking computer.

Just die because you're half a second. And that may happen again. So you're editing it. Oh, Jesus. From like a more like normy thing of why I have always been pushing Sentinel, even before the 5.0 update, but like I think watch wallets were so like underappreciated.

And you know, I've been using Sentinel almost since the beginning of my like samurai time. Like I was probably like six months after I started with Samurai that someone, I saw someone talk about Sentinel.

And then there was that weird like forked version that was really cool. I can't remember what it looks like. Sentinel X, that was pretty cool, black mode or dark mode, whatever you want to call it.

But the big use case, especially for like normies, right? I think like the typical path for whatever reason that we see a lot of people when they start to listen to podcasts and listen to like the Bitcoin Twitter spaces.

Okay, well, first get Bitcoin right by whatever means we all know that that's not necessarily the best advice, but they say, you know, get the Bitcoins, get them off the exchange, put them in a hardware wallet, right?

So like if those people had just even just from that bad starting point, but nonetheless it's a reality, right? If they were using something like Sentinel, they'd be able to just generate a new address like that.

You know, super easy and be able to see how much funds track their stuff like, you don't need to plug in your treasure, you don't need to plug in your ledger or whatever hardware wallet that they want to use.

You know, moving forward as you get more advanced into Bitcoin, you start to realize it's not that hard to do different things. You know, like over the October timeframe, like with Sentinel coming out, I was like, let me just go through a new pixel phone and do a completely cold storage offline, set

up, connect it to my dojo and everything else and it was flawless, super easy. And like, it's cool to see this app actually start to grow and develop. Yeah, I think I was one of them. So I'm not slagging people off here or I think people are missing how important it is.

And I think there is a big sale on, like you said, you have to go and buy hardware specifically and you have to go and spend all this money on all this stuff. And it's like, not really, you don't really, you can go and run one of these on a pixel 3a, you get them for like 50 quid over here.

You can be very secure. I would push people. Absolutely. I probably push people like friends and family now. You should probably spend your money on a node first. Make sure that you're trying to keep yourself private and then just run that on a fucking pixel and then if you really want to upgrade and you want to have a hardware wallet in

the future, then that's cool. But like, it's being sure to people who have got like, you've got a few hundred dollars and it's like, oh, go and spend another couple hundred dollars on fucking hardware.

It's like, no, this is not necessary. It really is. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we don't have, samurai has zero hardware wallets. All of our Bitcoin is in the samurai wallet or couple samurai wallets.

I personally don't have any hardware wallets other than the ones that are in my desk. Drawer and have never been used other than, you know, one time to test it out. The error of Bitcoin or that I am, there was one hardware wallet at the time.

It was treasor and you had to plug it in your computer to use it, which is outrageous and, you know, not a chance. So you know, hardware wallets never were a thing to me. And in fact, I would argue they're such a distraction and an abstraction.

They're recommended because the people that are recommending them don't transact. As soon as you have to start transacting, they're a nightmare to work with. It's a massive pain in the ass.

I think it depends a little bit. I'll push back slightly. For someone like me, I'm not technical enough to know enough of like what is true and what isn't true, if that makes sense. So when you hear people fear mongering about, you know, oh, you know, phones are insecure

and this can happen and that can happen and whatever the fear is that people are putting out there. For someone like me, I'm like, all right, I listen to what Zalka and Samra say. They obviously know what they're talking about, but I also listen to other people who know what they're talking about and will go for hardware.

So my approach is always like, look, I don't fucking know everything I've ever worked for my whole life is in Bitcoin. So the approach I take is I will just put not all my eggs in one basket.

I use my samurai wallet for all my spending and mixing and all that stuff. And then I have a little bit in cold storage, which I've generated keys offline, but you don't need a hardware wallet for that.

You can generate things offline without a hardware wallet. And that's my point. Now, the narrative is, oh, well, a hardware wall, it's not about seed generation, which is a lie. It's always been about seed generation with a hardware wallet.

So now it's, oh, it's not about that. It's about transaction signing. Well, no, because PSBTs are kind of new, you know, they're not that they've been around now, what, since 2018, something like that.

So hardware wallets predate PSBTs and hardware wallets were never about transaction signing ever. It was about seed generation. Okay. Well, you don't need a hardware wallet to create a seed.

You can do that with a dice if you're really paranoid and do that with the samurai wallet offline mode. You can do that with a sparrow. You could do it with anything. Yeah, I quite like the approach I've seen where like either the dice rolls or having all of the different words in a hat and then mixing and picking them out.

Yeah, all of these are valid ways to create seeds. And it's just like, okay, fine, you build hardware, you have a hardware, well, that's cool. That's great. And there's people out there who, like you said, they don't know, they're worried this and that.

And that's a solution for them because, you know, it's wrapped up with a bow around it. That's what they're counting on. Oh, people don't know. So they're going to spend 200 bucks on, on a piece of plastic to do something they can do with a, you know, a dice or words written on a page and thrown into a hat.

And okay, fine. Cool. But you don't need it. It's totally unnecessary. I agree. It's unnecessary. And I've realized that more and more as I've, well, for one thing, I've been using the majority of everything I have is on samurai and it has been for years now.

And at the beginning, I would ship myself a lot and I'd have problems connecting to a node and then I'd have to wipe it and restore it. And I must have done that 50 times, honestly. And now, because I've done it so many times, I'm like, hang on a minute.

This $50 phone that I've got in my drawer has worked really fucking well and it's simple to use and it's been secure. And almost everyone has one, almost everyone has a phone that they don't need it anymore.

Yeah. Yeah. An old phone is perfect. And so friends and family now, I just suggest that's what you do. If you run one of these things, you put samurai on it and you're good to go and you don't have to fuck around and then have some separate software that you're plugging into or messing

around with because it's just an extra layer of stress. And I think that's the thing is like, I want people who are listening to have the most simple and secure way and I am thinking, well, spend the money on a node if you have to.

If you want to spend some money, spend some money on a node and then you sentinel and you samurai, it's fucking simple. You don't have to do anything else that I set my sentinel up and I'm tracking my wallets and doing all the stuff I need to do.

It's beautiful. I did it in like 20 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're going to make it easier. Sorry. Yeah. No, no, you're good. I was just going to say like the cool part for people that have the want to do the like, hey, I want to have a savings wallet and a spending wallet, however you want to do it,

it kind of goes into like my whole thought process with the mixed expo stuff. And that's where like in combination with sentinel and just from the view, one, you're going to be able to track all that stuff.

You could be mixing it to your cold storage, see that, collect and add up and see what your balance is at. And if it's an offline samurai wallet, you could even mix it to post mix because it's going to be pool size ready.

And then if you ever bring that phone online and you're like, hey, I'm ready to spend it, it's going to go right back into Whirlpool. There's so many cool options that we have. And that's like why I got a gentle nudge to make sure that this happens on and Ronan.

And that's what I'm super excited about just being able to continue to be able to serve the people in a way that like makes sense because I do the same thing. Like I'm not one of those people that I try to add features that I won't use and mixing to expo is something I did that, you know, for my family saving stack, you know.

And I did that when mixed expo first came out. It's just one of those things where you're like, hey, you know what, I want this, I want to keep mixing and I want to see my stuff and I'm going to keep it private and gain forward privacy.

And now you can have that and you can watch it when you're ready. You can make transactions if you need to jump into that cold storage without coming out. You can create the transaction directly with send or sign it with the cold storage device, that Pixel phone and then broadcast it and you're good to go.

It's pretty amazing. You know, it really does make for a full stack. It does. The experience that I had today was really impressive. A, it was clean, so I've been using Sparrow to track everything for a long time.

I love Sparrow. It is great. But the experience that I had today was much cleaner. The UX is cleaner, having everything just in my hand on a phone, tracking everything. There's something really nice about it.

One little thing that I was like, this is the one thing that still ties me to using Sparrow is the labeling and I spoke to someone today who was like, it's coming. It's going to be there.

Is that something that's like going to be there but in a few years or is it something that lies? That's a fair question, Max. So it's actually it's actually coded already. It's just made some UI.

So no, it won't be a few years. I'm not sure if it's in the next version or version after that or where it's at, but it's not in a few years. It will be a good idea. The one thing is, look, it's a kind of a two part thing.

Greg wrote, is it bit 329? Is that his labeling bit? Hmm, I think it is something like that. I'll find out. And it's a great bit. We pretty much coded it up immediately as soon as it was proposed by him.

It's simple and it's elegant and makes sense. The issue is it's all it defines is the format for saving labels. Okay. Samurai wallet, you may have multiple phones with the same samurai wallet on it.

You may be using the phone and the desktop GUI from Whirlpool. You may be are using Sentinel as well, all with. So you have your wallet on, let's say, three devices at this point. How do you share the metadata?

How do you share those labels across three devices without manually having to do it every time you load up the wallet? So that's where the sticking point is. And that's what we've been trying to solve for.

And that's where we've been working on. And we do have a solution for it. I think it's a very elegant solution. Okay. So yes, so we will have labeling in Sentinel once we can share label data from Samurai to Sentinel in a secure manner.

I see. For the other wallets that you might be tracking, presumably they're not going to be shared. So that's going to be stored locally. Right. That would just be a separate bit of code for different wallets, basically.

Okay. Sure. So when I said we're actually going to make it easier just a few moments ago, I don't know, did you, when you set up your Sentinel, did you do it from the expods that Sparrow provided or did you do it from Samurai wallet?

I did it from both. Okay. Yeah. So what I did is I just went and tracked everything right that I would normally be tracking and I added in Samurai onto it as well. So I've got everything on one screen, which is really fucking cool with a balance at the top.

Yes. It's really slick. But then sorry. Sorry, mate. The one thing I was going to say is one thing that really is two things, actually, two things that shut me up today, all right, and one's for you, Samurai, and one's for you, Zelko.

This is the feedback of somebody who eats crayons, right? I got really scared today because when I logged in to my Ronan UI or was going to log in on the local network, went to log in and I saw a big message come up that was basically saying that this is not a secure connection.

That's true. Yeah. And then I asked a couple of people and I was like smart people and they're like, don't worry about it. You're an idiot. It's fine. There's a reason for this. Just don't worry about it.

You're fine. I said, well, wouldn't it be nice if you had like a little special needs thing at the bottom that said, don't worry, you're fine. I know you're probably panicking, but here's why.

Click here if you want to know why. So that was just a little bit of feedback from me where I was like, oh shit, I know I'm all scared. And then the bit for you, Samurai, where I was all scared is a tracking everything in Sentinel.

I was like, fuck, you know, this is so slick. I can see everything perfect. And then I was like, oh no, the balances aren't right. This isn't correct. And then I was looking through all the different, I think it's five different like X pub, Y pub, Z pub, whatever.

And then I was like, ah, I'm missing all the balances from my pain in. And then I reached out to someone smarter than me and I was like, why is this not working? And they explained well, because it has to be hot and blah, blah, blah.

So can you explain that to me and anyone who might be listening who might get scared and go, oh fuck, this isn't the right amount if they're using a pain in. Yeah, sure. So the only way you can derive the addresses for a pain is through the pain in his private key.

And because Sentinel obviously doesn't have access to private keys, it can't derive those addresses. So it doesn't know which addresses to look for balances on. So if you have a UTXO that was created by spending to a pain, which you clearly did, it won't show up in Sentinel.

Sentinel doesn't know about it because it's not part of your ex-pub, it's a whole different thing. Okay. And I just, just before you move on to grilling Zelko on his security issues. I know, I will say that really Zelko has no control over this.

This is the browser that puts that error message up and you can't change what it says on there. So you wouldn't be able to put anything that says, oh, don't worry. It's just how browsers are these days.

But so you had to basically add five ex-pubs to Sentinel from your Samuel wallet, right? We're making that way easier and we're just going to give you one QR code that you can scan with Sentinel that will import all your samurai wallet ex-pubs that are important

and required and add it to a samurai wallet collection, essentially in Sentinel. So instead of having to add, you know, five different ex-pubs manually, you'll just scan one QR code and everything will come over.

So we wanted to try to get that in for the first, you know, for the big 5.0. It just, we didn't have enough time. So it's coming, I think in the next update that one's coming. So it'll be a lot easier for users.

That's pretty amazing. I'm not going to lie. That's, that's news for me. That sounds amazing. Well, you know, we, we invented this concept of pairing with a QR code. Yes. That was, yes. That was samurai wallet.

We were the first to do that because of dojo. So, you know, we're, we're big on QR codes, we're big on pairing through that method. I think it's, it's the best thing that we got, basically, because who wants to be farting around with SD cards and shit like that?

It's ridiculous. Yeah. It's so much easier. Yeah. You scan, scan a QR code. So if you have your Sentinel already backed by, you know, you've already paired it with your dojo or your run in dojo, and then you import, it'll auto, it should be at least,

to my knowledge, it automatically imports and tracks them if they're not already tracking. It does. So you don't have to go back in and go into the run in UI and try to import all those expletives.

This automatically does it. And that's a pretty outstanding feature just in and of itself. Can you explain that again one more time? Yeah. Yeah. So through the process of setting up your Sentinel, you say you want to back it by your dojo, you scan your dojo and QR code and run in UI, and now it's backed by dojo as soon as

you import an expletive. So you want to add a collection, and then you get that from your samurai wallet, right? It's going to say it's sparrow or wherever, and it's not being tracked already by your dojo.

It takes care of that whole process for you, right? Nice. So that's a pretty awesome way to actually like quickly get your bounces up. Yeah, in the past, it actually was always supposed to work that way.

There was just a bug. So in the past, when you added an expub to Sentinel or imported an expub, or sorry, imported a new wallet into samurai, you had to like sometimes go into your dojo maintenance tool, add the expub there before you would see a balance.

You probably ran into this yourself at some point because it was a bug for a while. That's been fixed, and now it will automatically import. So you should never really have to log into your dojo maintenance tool unless a problem arises.

You shouldn't have to log into it, and if for anything other than maintenance, as the name suggests, it's alpha software. So there was that problem where you had to manually go in and do it, but we solved that in both samurai and in Sentinel.

So it's a lot more seamless now as you probably experienced today, where your only balance missing balance was payments, and we really can't do anything about that. So it just scared me for a second because I was like, oh, what's happened here?

And then, this is what I'm saying though, luckily, I can always reach out to someone smart and they're very kind with their time. And so for me, I ship myself for like a minute, and then someone goes, oh, no, this is this is why.

And I'm like, okay, all right. I don't have a heart attack then. Yeah. And we also, I mean, we also talk about it in documentation as well. Yeah. That was literally the one thing that popped up in terms of this whole process, which is pretty amazing because I normally find ways to fuck things up.

The one other query I had on it, which was maybe the way that I added the X pubs, Y pubs, Z pubs, you know, you're saying now you're going forward, you're just going to have one scan and it will do all of them.

I added X pub first. And so now when I go into my samurai tab, what does it collection you call it? If I go into my samurai collection and just go onto the all screen and then I go receive what it does is it automatically does receive deposit to X pub.

So I get a load of numbers at the beginning rather than if I went to a Z pub, I would get DC one queue. Yeah. Yeah. Is there a way round that or like, it's just something that we're solving for that.

And the update that includes the one pairing QR code. Okay. So I see it's going to actually work a lot like samurai wallet does where your deposit account, right, which is the, when you load up your samurai wallet, it's the, the screen with the gray balance as opposed to the screen with the blue one, which is post mix.

So we call that the deposit account. That shows you X, Y and Z pub all in one. And when you go to receive in samurai wallet, it defaults to your DC one queue address, which is your Z pub.

And if you click on that little advanced toggle, you can change it if you want to, but it defaults to native segway, Z pub. And it's going to work the exact same in Sentinel. Once we have that QR code scan, okay, you will only see deposit account, which it will be a combination of your X, Y and Z pubs.

And when you go to the receive tab, it will be defaulted to your Z pub, BC one queue address, and you'll be able to manually change it to a three address or one address. Very nice. The other thing I noticed with this whole setup is how fast it was.

Yeah. Is this something to do with me running fulcrum on my dojo? That will play into it. Also, we've updated the tour library, which is way faster. So that plays into it as well, especially for dojo users, because they have to connect by a tour and samurai wallet hasn't had that update yet, so you'll actually see that loading

your balances up in Sentinel is faster than in samurai. It's because of that tour library. Okay. And that's a let me shout out Matthew Nelson, who maintains that tour library that we use.

Do you like how it's awesome? He's a old school Bitcoin user, old school dojo user. We implemented a tour library. Again, we were the first to actually embed tour into a Bitcoin wallet instead of relying on an external app like or bot or something like that.

He saw what we were doing. He was like, that's a good idea. And he made it a million times better. So then we started using his code. He's recently updated this tour library to the latest version that he's maintaining and it is blazing fast.

So shout out to Matthew. Shout out Matthew. I don't know you, but shout out Matthew. Yeah. Like I said, it was you. It was fucking quick. Yeah. You'll notice for fulcrum, you'll notice fulcrum speed on imports.

So when adding an X pub to Sentinel, you know, adding a Y pub or Z pub that has like a deep, deep indexes, you'll notice the speed there. That's fulcrum. And yeah, that's blazing fast. Yeah.

That's the difference. That's the like just to compare like every time that you someone spins up sparrow, right? Who goes back and ask fulcrum to or whatever index you're using to search through all of the X pub, right?

That's how it's like recalibrating everything and finding any missed stuff. So he uses it every time versus when you import into dojo, it does it one time. And then it gets that balance. So if you're importing into dojo, it's going to going to do all that.

It's going to find the correct balance. And then from there, it's going to already be in the database and it's not going to need to rely on an indexer every single time. So it's main use case is the import part.

That's why it's important to have a fast one. Yeah, that's right. Like, so if you actually just created your samurai wallet brand new connected to your dojo, it doesn't use fulcrum at all because it doesn't, it's in brand new.

Doesn't need to. It doesn't need to. And as long as you know, it keeps tracking it, which says there's a tracker in dojo. Yeah. It won't. Yeah, it won't need it. But for imports, like, you know, and a monomic restore counts as an import.

So when you restore with your seed words and your passphrase, it will search the indexer say, is there any activity of balance on this and find it? Okay. Yes, it is. So you saying that just breaking it down here, if I was not running a Tanto every time

that I would say I was using an electron server or something like that, every time that I would load up the wallet, that wallet would have to scan to try and find right from the beginning and scan it all the way through, whereas because I'm using the dojo, it's kind of stored.

This is going to be the right terminology, but kind of locally on the dojo. That's right. It's already terminology. That's right. Wait. Fuck it now. We got it. That's it. It's taken a few years.

Okay. Cool. So that means that then it's only going to scan forward from that point for anything new, which means it has to do less work all the time. Yeah. Well, yeah, the indexer fulcrum's not scanning.

It's just dojo. It's dojo's keeping track at that point, and basically any transaction that hits the mempool, dojo's looking at it and saying, do I care about this transaction? If so, add it to the database.

Yeah. The dojo architecture, it really is ahead of its time. I think I would mention that to Laurent recently because came up with the architecture and implementation and all that stuff. I'm sure he wasn't alone.

But it really is. It was pretty much alone. Yeah. It really is amazing because for a wallet that actually uses addresses all the time, if you're these people who don't actually use Bitcoin, who really gives a shit if you have an indexer, you don't.

And who gives a shit how it's tracked? Like, you just need to know to be able to tell you the next address, right? And like what the balance is. But when you start having thousands of addresses because you've been mixing, you're spending all these different things, you're like, you need a proper architecture that is built

to sustain that and continuously gets you the correct address and next unused address. So it's the fact that it's, you know, he built it, you know, I think Whirlpool had just come out. They came out almost simultaneously.

Right? Yeah. We waited on Whirlpool till Dojo. We didn't want to release Whirlpool until Dojo was released fully and people had the ability to connect to their own nodes. I always forget that, because I got excited.

Well, yeah, you were an early tester of Whirlpool. So you were testing it while Dojo was still being developed and finalized. But that was pretty much all around. He designed it, the architecture of it and everything like that.

You know, we had certain requirements, right? We're a mobile wallet, meaning you need to be able to load this thing up fast on the go, not be waiting around hours for something, this sink, not be waiting, you know, so there's a reason why it's designed the way it is.

It's designed for it to be a spending wallet like Zelko was saying. And again, the time that we started Bitcoin, it was very common to go to restaurants, cafes, places in person and pay in Bitcoin.

And you when you're doing that, you need something that's going to load up instantly. Otherwise, you're going to be standing there waiting 10 minutes for something to sink so you can buy like a two year old coffee, you know, it's not going to happen, no one's doing that.

And especially like it's great, okay, you're in the Western nation or you know, have access to 5G, great. But a lot of our users don't and they're on edge, you know, and it's slow. They need it to load those conditions too.

So the architecture was very well thought out for the requirements of our actual users. And that's why when it comes to people actually transacting, dojo is perfect because it works very, very well.

That's the new push, the new mobile wallet standard, let your wallet get backed by dojo, but they won't do it. I mean, it's just a reality like people would ask about, you know, for example, Bloom filters.

Why not? Why don't you use Bloom filters? And it's like, okay, just just Z pub alone on a Bloom filter, you're talking like four gigs. One second. I want to hear where we actually left off.

I'm going to listen to this recording record. Every fucking time it happens, it's all good. Ended at Bloom filters. I didn't even hear that, but we have it in the recording. Okay. Yeah, that's true.

Fill me in then. Hey, I got, um, I got the audio waves this time though. Okay. That's something. So we were talking about the requirements for Bloom filters, uh, or not requirements, the, the maxi call for why it would, samurai wallet or why doesn't, why don't they just use Bloom filters?

And then they don't have to use samurai server or dojo wouldn't be required for privacy. That's, he was, what's the word debugging that myth? Yeah. Well, you know, I was just explaining that a common, uh, question, especially from what I call the non-transactors is why not use Bloom filters?

Because Bloom filters, when we know you don't need to, you don't need to run samurai dojo. You could just connect into an existing election server, et cetera, something like that, or Bitcoin full note, not even an election server, just a Bitcoin full note.

And there's, you know, there's, there's several reasons. One, you know, Bloom filters not even turned on by default in Bitcoin core. So you're only getting served Bloom filters from a few select peers, but besides that, a Z pub alone to download the Bloom filters for a Z pub would be like four gigs by itself, you know.

So the data requirements of that would be ridiculous for a mobile user for one. But samurai wallet has more than just a Z pub. It has a Y pub and has an X pub. And those are far bigger because there's more addresses history to go through.

And then you think, well, actually, samurai has more than just an X pub, Y pub and Z pub, it has at least two X pub because you have a post mix account has two Y pubs, two Z pubs. You know, so, and then there's the bat bank, which has a Z pub.

You know, so all of these things, you're talking what 16, 18 gigs to download from the blockchain every time you open your wallet up that, you know, needs to sync, especially if you haven't opened it up in a few days.

It's like the, the solutions these people come up with, they're not based in reality. They're based in either building up an audience for themselves, getting engagement, you know, trying to sell some sort of vision that they think is realistic, but basically betrays that they've never actually transacted in their life.

And, you know, let's say, okay, that's not a problem for you because you're on 5G or in a, you have good networking, a lot of our users don't, a lot of our users are on edge, which is slow.

And the wallet needs to perform well for them as well. So, you know, the reasons why we created the architecture of Dojo, which is the, one of the oldest architectural styles, client server, it's proven, it works and it's fast.

It's great for mobile. It's because it's client server doesn't mean it's bad. When you're running the server, there's absolutely no problem. And that's, you know, that's the point. Hmm. You can talk all fucking day about this kind of stuff.

But at the end of the day, like, there's only a few tools that work and that I recommend to people, a lot of the other stuff, exactly what you said, it's like the conversations are there for engagement, the conversations are there to either like pump people's idea

of like what a price is going to go to or some sort of marketing jargon bullshit and people waste so many fucking hours listening to these sort of philosophical bullshit conversations when the reality is, well, there is some software that works that actually are getting pretty simple.

And so that's really what I wanted to highlight is just like, you can have a couple of phones for fuck all money, you can run a node, it works, and you can transact privately. And you don't have to get into this whole bullshit argument that doesn't really make sense and isn't necessary.

You can just transact and use Bitcoin, how it's supposed to be used. And that's it. The rest of it's bullshit. So it's good to get into these sort of topics. Yeah. Exactly. The rest of it's fluff, you know, just try using it, you know, then that's, then you'll

see, you know, try transacting, do transactions, pay for things in Bitcoin, then you'll see, you'll see, oh, you do need a piece of middleware, it doesn't just work with Bitcoin core, you know, if you need something in between, then the people who, like I said, the people who

are saying something different, they're just betraying the fact they don't transact. And that's fine. Not everyone's going to transact. Some people only use it for savings. But you know, if you do that, it's not that it's wrong or bad or anything like that, but you're missing a major part of this thing.

You're missing. Probably, yeah, I would say the most important part of this thing. Selka, me and you were talking a lot recently about circular economies and how important... I was just going to say that.

You've got to go and jump into it then. Yeah. No, just like the, that's why the white paper was written, like, yeah, it can't be a savings, like a savings tool, of course, like any money should, a lace in theory, be capable of being like a savings tool.

But Bitcoin obviously has the characteristics to make it good for savings. But it's also meant to be able to operate outside the traditional finances and be able to buy what you want, where you want, whenever you want and do it in a period of your fashion directly to the person.

So like supporting companies that don't even do that, you should be rethinking it. But also like, if you're not doing that ever to be able to buy, I'm not saying you have to go and buy, you know, drugs on the fucking black market or anything, but like, you should be able to just do it, just buy something.

I bought beef jerky from somebody in one of your telegram groups, Barnes, something. I don't remember saying, it's our miner. Dude, his beef jerky is fucking solid. He's such a shit bloke though, that it cancels out.

Oh, are we, do we have someone to add to the shit list? No, no, no. And he's a fucking legend, he's awesome. Yeah, he's really good. But yeah, like, you know, like doing shit like that, like if I can, if someone is offering me a service or goods directly at me to you, like 90% of the time, I'd like want to buy it.

If it's something that I want or need, like I'm going to buy it directly from them with Bitcoin because that's what this is about. No middleman, like no permission, do what you want with your money, right?

So like, and it comes down to using the tools, right? If you want to use it for savings most of the time, sure, but like, if you've never transacted and then come a time period soon, where things that you thought were legal or socially acceptable or now no longer socially acceptable or legal, like beef jerky, like

beef jerky, you know, they're going to, it's bad for the cows, I guess, I don't know. It is objectively bad for the cows. Although there is a good argument, there's a libertarian argument that it's responsible for the preservation of the cow without this is true in history.

You know, the cow would probably be extinct by now, but sorry to be real. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, so like, it's really like use the tools, at least practice, at least do something so that if you're a person that's never spent Bitcoin, you've only, you know, stack Sats

quote unquote, start doing it, just get out of those, out of the habits of never touching it or too scared to touch it, just do it. And then it'll change, change your mind on everything. It opens.

It opens your eyes. It opens your eyes. Sure. I'll make it to that. Oh, go. Sorry. Max. I was just going to, no, no, you go first. Okay. I think I stepped on a joke. My apologies. No, no, no, you didn't.

Okay. Okay. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So one of the best ways of obtaining non-KYC Bitcoin is by selling a good or service, right? So when you come across people who are selling goods and services, beef jerky from this guy, there's a group of people in Iran, I think, that are selling saffron for Bitcoin, you

know, whatever it may be, I've seen all sorts of things. You should support those people because you're supporting them by providing them non-KYC Bitcoin. Absolutely. Because you are the type that are like, "Oh, that's my coin.

Why should I give it to you?" It's like, "Well, why haven't you come up with something to earn yourself Bitcoin? Do you actually have zero skills? Is that, you know, is what's your problem?

Why can't you figure something out?" Do you like the fuck? Yeah. You know, people, there are people looking to pay Bitcoin. I retweeted something yesterday, a shame at the Vannu podcast was looking for someone to do translations for him, French and Spanish translations.

And he's paying in Bitcoin and he's having a hard time finding people. It's like, you know, if you speak French and English or you speak in Spanish and English, why aren't you doing that?

And obtaining non-KYC Bitcoin yourself, you know, so you should absolutely find people, support people, and build an actual fucking economy. Because economies don't work if everyone's just, you know, never transacting.

It works both ways. You need capital, but you also need spending. You need transacting. Completely agree. And what I was going to say wasn't a joke. This is a challenge for anyone who's listening, who maybe you might be in that camp and you're thinking, "Oh, they're my sats, they're my precious, you know, I'm not going to spend them.

I'm going to keep them generational wealth. It's going to be my great, great, great, great, great grandkids' sats." Well, A, fucking grow up and B, why don't you try using the tools? Don't samurai download Sentinel and make one transaction.

And then we're going to run a spaces in, I don't know, a couple of weeks from now, we'll put it out on Twitter and let you know the day, and you can come online and you can either tell us why we're wrong and why it's a shit idea, or you can come on and ask some questions

and get more into this and use the tools because your great, great, great, great grandkids are going to have something that's fucking worthless unless people start using it and using it properly.

Fucking damn it. There's your challenge. Name into that. All right, cool, well, obviously we could talk forever. I'd really like to do another one, maybe a bit more of a loose conversation in the future with both of you again, but I wanted to keep this one tight.

I wanted it to be more specifically around Sentinel and I think we've done a pretty good job there. Anyone who's listening, if you have any questions while you're listening, write them down and what we're going to jump on the spaces, you can ask those questions, any queries and feedback you can ask and let's start using it.

It's fucking important. Right on. Join the spaces, ask your questions. We want to engage with the community. It's kind of the idea behind this, it's like not just doing another podcast that just talks to each other and doesn't engage with the people, the samurai said it earlier, the community

is what kept him around for a guy that's been in well longer than most people in the Bitcoin space don't last us long. I mean, Rona Dojo wouldn't be here if we weren't community members of samurai, so we're the same way.

So we want to hear from everybody. Come out, ask your questions, shoot the shit, talk shit about me if you want. That's fine. Definitely. I know certain people that will join just to do that, but it's all love, so I would love for people to come out and just ask your questions because that's what we want to do.

So does that mean that they have to unblock me on Twitter if they want to participate in this space? No, no, because I'm going to host it. Not many people have blocked me, I don't think, and I haven't blocked anyone.

So everyone can join and then, you know, if they want to come and have a fight, they can do. But what would be much more productive is just to come and actually talk about using the tools, actually talk about making transactions and doing what this thing is here for.

If you have any sort of like productive feedback, then maybe that's useful. If you just want to shout and be a twat, you'll probably get told to fuck off, but yeah, we want to hear from you regardless.

Sounds good. Cool. I really appreciate both your time and I look forward to doing the spaces and yeah, we'll definitely have to do a sort of more longer form pod soon as well. It's been too long, but yeah, it's been really good.

I look forward to jumping on and going through all this stuff. I'm going to keep playing around and using it, but I've been very, very impressed so far. I'm not happy to hear it, you know, we spent, you know, it was an update taking a long time, but it was hopefully worth the wait and now it's really, I think now people are really

going to actually start exploring PSBTs, actually start exploring making offline transactions. Whereas before it's in the realm of theory, it's like, yeah, I got the hardware wallet like, and maybe you do a test transaction here and there, but our users are transacting.

They're doing it for real. So now we're going to actually start seeing adoption of PSBT thanks to Samurai Wallet and we're happy to do it. Awesome. Cheers. All right, guys. Well, yeah, I appreciate it and yeah, we'll speak soon.

Sounds good, brother. Right. I really hope you enjoyed that as much as I enjoyed recording. I love speaking to these guys and they're actually building software that is usable and that matters.

So thank you to Ronen Dojo and Samurai Wallet for making such incredible software and hardware. If anyone would like to buy a Ronen Dojo Tanto, get some money off and also support the show so you can head over to RonenDojo.com.

You can use the code ungovernable. It will get you a discount and it will also help support the show. If you'd like to download Sentinel or Samurai, you can do it for free. There's no code.

There's no nothing. It's open source. Just head over to samuraiwallet.com. Please make sure to check out the spaces if you have any questions or feedback on Sentinel and I will release the date in the coming few days.

We just need to organise the time we can all do, but it will be this month. Also remember to check out ungovernable misfits.com for all of our articles, podcasts, clothing and everything else.

Reasonable misfits.com, catch you on the next one.