Running a bitcoin node for the streets. RoninDojo community discussion.

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.

Let's go!

Now, what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison. Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.

Yeah.

Yeah. All right, you ungovernable misfits. I'm your host, Max. Everybody knows that Bitcoin is useless, worthless, and doomed to fail. But what if everyone's wrong? What if it's the system that is doomed to fail?

Join me as I speak to some of the brightest people in the space and slither to the deepest, darkest depths of the Bitcoin rabbit hole.

Today's episode is a recording from the recent Ronan Dojo community spaces. This is all about running a Bitcoin node for the streets. As everyone knows, this is my favorite node implementation.

It keeps you private and secure. The team do not fuck about. And for anyone who is looking for a Ronan Dojo tanto, maybe you haven't bought one yet, maybe you're running something else and you've realized it's not open source or a team or a bunch of cunts or whatever the reason is.

If you decide that you would like one, you can use the code ungovernable. This will give you a discount. It will also help me support this show as they give me a few sats back as I thank you.

And you will not be disappointed. These things are fucking amazing. I can't recommend them highly enough. It was great to have this discussion and hear from Dan Kool and Dojo Coder and all of the community.

It really does give me hope to find these people who genuinely care about privacy and freedom. A little bit of peace and quiet away from the screeching and bullshit and people who just are getting their heads down and building stuff that matters.

So thank you to all the team. Thank you to everyone who's running this software. And it's nearly a new year. So I think that's about enough from me. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If anyone has any questions, they can reach out to me.

I hope everyone has a good time this evening and I will catch up with you all in the new year. Stay ungovernable. - Can you hear this? - Yeah, I can hear that. Can you hear me out? - Yeah. - Can you hear the snoring?

- Yeah. - No. So I can hear you when you fade away. - He's the co-host. - Fantastic. - How's my mic and volume doing? - He's sounding good, mate. I've just broken up open a bottle of art bag.

- He's very nice. - Yeah, that's sort of a good one. - Very smokey. I bought it for myself for Christmas. I still want giving up booze. - I can open a bottle. - Oh, I can hear myself as well.

That's fucking horrible. - You're good, you're good. No, no, I'm getting what you just had. - That's weird. - Anyway, while we're waiting for people to join, Pavel, very nice work, mate. - Thank you very much, sir.

Happy people enjoyed it. - Very clean. It was to be expected, but very clean. - Yeah, but to be honest, it's nothing like super innovative because I just basically copied what was already done by zero leak in World Pool UI, like the desktop applications.

So, but yeah, there's some nice animation here and there. - You know what is funny is that I think I remember, this is like before Ronan even started. This is when the desktop GUI had first come out and it was ironic.

I think you even said on the podcast, you're like, it feels like this is, everything is like brand new and feels like 2023 and all this new stuff except for the desktop app. They'll be like, yeah, well, that hasn't changed, but it reminds me of back then.

And I just remember Pavel being saying something along the lines of like, you could tell this crap was made by a Java dev and like he's like, this is such crap. He's like, one day I'm gonna fix it.

And like, I remember, man, I was, it's probably four years ago, probably almost five years ago. - I love the language beliefs. There's like a real tear system, isn't there? Everyone dunks on each other.

- Yes. - Who's the best like? - Don't start this for a dude. - I can do 'cause I can't write, I can't even write English, let alone code. - Deep sharp. - Yeah, me neither. - Deep sharp. - Deep sharp is the best, is it?

- Ew. - No, just stop, stop or see or rust. I'm partial to rust if I'm honest. - Are you? - No, I don't even know what it is. (laughing) - Everyone says rust until they do it. - Yeah, no, I've got no idea.

- Rust isn't bad, the Java devs. I'll say the Java devs will think that they're superior, but they have their limitations. - We all do, except for rabbit. - Bash does not count though, just for full transparency, Bash is the worst.

- What is Bash? - What are you just using in like command line? - Yes. - Okay. - But you can script it and you can make it do stuff, but it's not a real programming language. - Oh, okay. - And thus, the more properly educated I became, the more I hated it, and I still hate it, I'm looking forward to not having to use that anymore.

- Yeah, and imagine being a Java dev and so calling Bash, just imagine. - Oh, I can't imagine coding anything, mate. So I tried. - I can. - Yeah, you can. What's your take on this? - Java is the top tier language out there, and no other language can be it.

- Nothing else matters. - This is ridiculous. I'm impartial, but no, the Java's good. Java script is pretty. They all have their use case. I'll be the impartial one that's had to learn multiple different languages out of nowhere, so fuck you guys.

- I mean, I could just blame you that I had to learn shell script. - You can blame me, and I accept it, and that's fine. And the world appreciates your sacrifice. - Is it like if you, you know, you get some people who are multilingual and they speak Spanish and French and a couple of others, and then they pick up other languages quickly,

is there something to it where you already understand and write in a certain programming language, or is it actually in a way that's even harder 'cause you're like, what the fuck am I doing it this way now?

- I'd have to say if you learn how languages work, 'cause if you learn one language, you learn like how to make use of it. If you learn how your code gets used by the computer, then you start to learn how the concept of languages work.

Once you unlock that, you get better access to the other languages. - Makes sense. - Yeah, no, that is true. And then there's like general rules that apply to real programming languages. And so like the difference is more minor of just like understanding the syntax, like the details of the language,

kind of like how a lot of languages similar, like the romantic languages are similar. They're not the same, but they're similar structurally and everything else. It's the same concept there, but there are some bigger differences when you start to look at like stuff like rawest or go-laying versus in like C, C++ or C# versus like

something like Java. - When we're talking about run and dojo is everything written in Java? Is that kind of... - Oh God, no. - No. - No, no. So because of our skill lack thereof in the beginning, the thing about Bash is that like, if you were to just write in commands that you would put in the terminal, right,

that to make something happen, and then you wanna automate that, Bash is like the easiest thing because that's exactly what you're doing, right? So for people that don't know any programming, which is Kafka me and S2, when we started, we didn't know anything.

We basically converted our scripts into our guides into scripts to automate them. And then we had a super Bash Ninja script kitty type person who knows who he is. And he continued to make even more scripts and even more Bash scripts.

So yeah, we're Bash right now in the back end and then all of the UI is TypeScript. - Yeah, that's correct. Which is just JavaScript when it runs, but it's the TypeScript gets compiled into JavaScript.

Let's say JavaScript for the sake of argument. - And then yeah, our plan is soon. Hopefully I've been saying this for a long time. We'll be doing a complete rewrite and go line to have a more robust system, which I'm actually super excited about.

It's like the thing I've been wanting to do for a very long time. So it'll be a fun new challenge for us. It's gonna be super awesome. So it's pretty fun. - What's the reason for going for something like that?

Is it security? Is it just to have something where it's all written in the same language so it's easier to work with? 'Cause presumably that's a pain in the ass to do. I'm just guessing. - Correct.

Yes, no, it will be a pain. And damn, can also add to this after I'm done. But one of the benefits of go laying or rust, that was the other one we were considering, is it's more usable at a lower level, like operating with the actual operating system, but it's also go laying is a little bit safer from the concept of something like C++.

This is, man, we're really getting into a weirdly technical conversation. But yeah, so C++ you have, it's like being in super control. So you can really do a ton, but with being able to do a ton, right, you also run the risk of breaking a lot of things along the way.

Go laying is less, it has the same level it can go down to, but it's also, it has a little bit more safety features in that to kind of keep you from breaking everything as you're doing it.

It's extremely fast, it's the other thing, but it was written for, Docker is written in go laying or go laying was, I can't remember the exact history, but I know that they work very, very well together and considering that our stack is heavily relying upon Docker with Dojo.

It was a natural fit there. And it's a proper programming language so we can actually program the way that we need to make a better API system for a Pavel over here for the UI. So it'll make us have more and more robust user interface from moving forward.

So it makes it so that our UI can really take off and then Pavel doesn't have to. MacGyver is an API like backend. So he's had to do that so far 'cause Dash doesn't really work that way. - Pavel with this putting it in terms I would understand like as an artist, would this allow me to use more different materials

and it would allow me to do more than I currently can 'cause I'm not constrained to using like a certain type of paint or something along those lines. Are you kind of restricted? - Well, right now, since the functionality that the Ronin Dojo uses or the stuff that Ronin Dojo does, let's say switching your indexer

from Electardis to Fulcrum. Right now, that is done in the base script. So that's an actual CLI shell script that's a file on the file system. Right now, even like the UI calls that script.

But in the future, if we go with Golang, it would just for Ronin UI be calling a simple API and point like a simple HTTP call. It wouldn't need to execute in a shell script directly because with executing shell scripts in Node.js, Node.js is the runtime for JavaScript on the server.

Executing shell scripts is kind of tedious to take care of a lot of things that can happen. And I think Golang is way more fit to this than Node.js than JavaScript. It should help with development and pushing out new features while staying backwards compatible.

So rewriting everything in Golang will take some time. But once it's done, it should help us in the future. - What Pavel kind of has to do right now is kind of like having to go through a big box of random tools that aren't meant to do the job.

You know, like painting your ball with like a rag because that's what you have. And you make it work, but it's not optimized, right? Like you don't have the roller, but having a roller would make it obviously better, faster.

And allow you to get more stuff done, right? So that's kind of the idea, if that makes sense. - No, that makes sense. - Is that more simple for you? - Yeah, that's just simple enough. - Yeah, let's start talking about less technical, less language stuff.

- I was actually just trying to start a fight at the beginning between different devs. - Let's start with the update. Obviously we covered it on the pod and we didn't actually go into a huge amount of the detail on it.

But maybe someone who's in here had some questions or thoughts on it that they wanted someone to expand on. - There's been a couple of updates on different things. Well, we have the update on running UI with the world, but I don't know if that's the one you're specifically referring to.

We've had another updates. Hang on, let me pull this up, just so I've got nothing straight. Where is that?

- Well, thanks Dan, that's really interesting. - Sorry for that. I've got too many things pulled up here. - Here's the beef I decided to start at the time. - Yeah, this is their normal banter.

And this is why I love having them on the team. Sometimes you just throw a frag grenade and then just watch them fucking panic. It's my favorite thing. - Oh, you got it, go on. - Yeah, so we have the update on Dojo that happened.

That happened the other day. Cause that's why I was asking if it was about the UI or the Dojo update. - Yeah, that's a big one. That'd be fun. You wanna cover a little bit of it? Do you wanna let the Dojo Coder?

- I suppose I should let the Dojo Coder cover that one. - Yeah, please do tell us about the recent, I don't wanna call controversy. The recent Dojo release that apparently has triggered some people.

- Wait, we're talking about that? Okay. - Yeah, tell me about Dojo and why people are triggered. - Well, a lot of people got triggered because a recent Samurai Dojo, like the vanilla Samurai Dojo release that's been released yesterday.

Now has a functionality to automatically ban every Bitcoin knots look fork of Bitcoin core that is made to limit the opportons, like sensors and filters. Certain transactions made in Samurai what?

And it also filters out inscription transactions as far as I know, because, you know, Samurai uses rely on their Dojo to work. It shouldn't be connected to a Bitcoin node to peer that blocks transactions made from your node.

I think that's like very clear that if you're connected to peer and that peer doesn't rely your transactions to the rest of the network, you should disconnect from that peer automatically.

But, you know, there's normally there's like no way to know if a certain peer relays your transactions or not. But in this case, we know that by default nodes nodes don't rely those transactions.

So it's actually better to automatically search for them if they're connected and if they are just banned them like for six years or so. - What percentage of the network is running knots or presumably it's pushing?

- Oh, no, it's insignificant. It's much, much less than Samurai Dojo uses, actually. But, you know, like-- - It's literally Luke and his 50 IQs. - Yes, something like that. It's very insignificant.

- Does he have a kid? - He collects kids and eats cats or something like that. - I do know that he eats or at least wants to eat cats, but just for clarity in case anyone doesn't know exactly what knots is, Bitcoin knots is Luke, Dash Jr.

or Jr. I don't know, it's an ocean mining, Luke, Bitcoin core, prior Bitcoin core developer. That's his fork with his rules that he's set. And I guess he didn't know the definition of standard, but I guess his standard for the opportune data carrier limit was lower than that of what Samurai has for their opportune

for TX0s and for notification transaction for Bit.47 Paynims. So, effectively Bitcoin knots nodes all by default unless the user has changed them, which most people, as we know, most people don't change the standard, especially for the Bitcoin core or for running a node.

Their effectively censoring will not relay TX0 or a Bit.47 Paynim notification transaction. So, it doesn't work with Dojo. And that was, I believe, the technical reason why to do that. And there's been some people who are upset, but at the end of the day, it makes sense.

And even people who hate, like, quite literally hate, Sam Harai have come out to say that makes total sense and they agree. So, it was kind of interesting to see people's reaction, but to me, it made total sense.

And yeah, so, it's been a fun time since the December 6th. So, I appreciate Sam Harai for making it fun, making the holidays fun again. - So, basically, if you stop yourself from being connected to these nodes, it just stops these transactions from not being relayed.

So, you're just sort of preventing the inevitable and wasting, what would you be wasting by that happening? Like, if you are connecting to them. - Yeah, sort of continue. - I'm just trying to work out, you connect with them, then it would be pointless, 'cause they're not gonna be usable for someone

who's using Samurai and using Whirlpool or using Paynims. And so, to prevent that, you are making it so that you can't connect to them in the first place. - Yes. - Does that save, like, bandwidth and time, or is it also, like, a fuck you to them?

I'm like, you can't, we don't accept what you're doing. - Oh, of course, of course both. But since, you know, Samurai Dojo users, their Bitcoin nodes, their Bitcoin core, are connected solely over Tor, or solely over Tor network.

And that means there's very limited bandwidth. And since that is true, there's also a limit to how many other peers, to how many other Bitcoin nodes your node can be connected to. I think that is kept right now at 15.

So, you know, that's not really that much. And so, like, being connected to a Bitcoin node that doesn't really rely on your transaction is just wasteful. It's a waste of bandwidth. - Yeah, makes sense.

Where's the controversy, though? Forgive my ignorance here. I know there's always, like, a beacon. There's always, like, a fight here, but it seems like that's just necessary to protect users.

Like, it seems like it would be an obvious thing to do. I mean, you're a rational person. - Sometimes. - Sometimes, yeah. I would say that the irrational point that people were trying to make is that, like, the counterintuitive of trying to say, "Oh, well, Samurai was upset."

Like, the Samurai team is upset about censorship and now they're banning not nodes, but there's a technical reason for that point, unless they had changed their default data carrier. And so, like, it makes sense from what we're doing, but people are just, for lack of better words, just, like, re-ing about this, like,

about this technical point. So, Pavel, did you find anything else that would be any other reason other than screeching? - No, not really. I haven't found any, like, valid arguments. - If I may, I think there's the core maintainer status that Luke has has people either ignorance or, otherwise, overlooking his past behavior, as it were.

So, they're less critical in that sense as some other people are. So, I think when they see the Samurai reaction to this, some people have seen Samurai's reaction to other things and they've disagreed with that before, so they've already defaulted to a stance that it must be bad combined with, this is against Luke and Luke is good

because he's core maintainer. And after that, you can't reason with these people anymore. - Yeah, you're correct. And there's also other thing because there's a lot of people that hate inscriptions all the type, like, we are sea-twent tokens, or, you know, I don't know what else.

They see it as spam, even though these are valid transactions by consensus, by code, they are invalid blocks and so every other Bitcoin pool mines them. But these people hate those transactions and because of that, they decided to cite with Luke and his implementation because implementation decided to censor these transactions.

- Am I right in saying that if these people did hate inscriptions and they wanted to censor them, there's not a realistic reason that they would have to censor the transactions that they are 4.47 or the CX-0s because of the size of them, is it like?

- It's not even, there's a technical nuance to it. You have two different mechanisms. You have the Opera Turn, which allows you in a transaction when it's standard, 80 bytes. And then you have, I believe, they're called BRC-20, I'm not sure if it's ordinals too, but you have since the, I think it's introduced in Taproot,

they can make use of the segregated witness data, the stuff data in there. I'm not sure about the exact mechanism, but the key point is that it's a completely different mechanism from Opera Turn, and most of all the JPEG spam, as they call it, is present in there and not in the Opera Turn data in most of those transactions.

So to say that he wanted to tackle that, he would have had no reason to then, or no good reason anyway to also go for Opera Turn because that would be minimal. That's not of any significant volume in comparison.

- I just wanted to mention quickly that luck with this old pool called Eligis was inscribing biblical verse in the blocks. And at that time, it was very controversial. And... - You made yourself my self-sensory.

- Yeah, sorry, I just listened to me again, and it was weird I had the bug that you had. But yeah, no, he, what I found odd in this controversy is that he did the exact same thing. He basically inscribed text on the blockchain, and I find it quite ironic that now he's like in a crusade against it.

And I would also mention that if he didn't want it to censor some right transaction, he could easily whitelist them. But that also opened a kind of form. I think pools should not mess up with transaction period.

Like if they are in the mean pool and they are valid by Bitcoin cordage, they should just not mess with it. Yeah, that makes sense to me. You should mine whatever is the most profitable thing to mine.

Me and John covered this a little bit on the plebminer monthly that will be going live next couple of days, hopefully. That just seems logical. And no matter how many times someone tries to explain anything different to me, I'm like, surely that's what miners do.

Why would anyone use that pool because it's gonna be less profitable? So therefore, it's something you should stand up against. But surely it doesn't continue because who's stupid enough to leave money on the table?

It just doesn't make sense to me unless I'm missing something. No, you're entirely correct because what they are trying to do is against, it goes against like economical incentives. And it's basically just a huge virtual signal, nothing more in my opinion.

Samurai, have you got any thoughts on this? Obviously you do. No, yeah, I mean, you guys have covered it quite well, I think a couple points I can add. Damn, reference this, but the majority of the JPEGs and whatnot are not using OperaTern.

And they're making use of pay to tap root outputs. And this is, if you wanna argue about what's harmful, this is far more harmful than OperaTern because this inflates the UTXO set and you can't prune these transactions with the OperaTern, of course, you can prune them from your node.

If you have an issue storing that data and it won't cause any problems at all, so OperaTern is pruneable. But larger point to that is we don't want our miners to start being the arbiters of what transactions are acceptable or not 'cause that's a very, very slippery slope.

So that's really all I would say on the matter. I discussed this in depth last night with the Econo Alchemist and Divertor on their pod, which should come out this week. And I think it goes into great detail on these concepts.

So I don't need to beat a dead horse. - Okay, good. Yeah, Divertor kindly sent me and John sort of run down of his thoughts on it and I read that before the show 'cause I hadn't really dipped in and out and he broke it down nicely.

But yeah, it does seem like the incentive is for miners, obviously, to earn as much money as possible. And it just doesn't make sense that they would leave money on the table. - Yeah, and we're seeing that.

I mean, if you look at the Stats on Oceans dashboard, they've been shutting hash rate since this announcement and they only increased their hash rate two days ago. But if you look carefully, it's the talk to contributors to the pool that have increased hash rate, which are most likely Luke and other pool operators.

So they saw that their hash rate was slipping and in order to kind of clean the numbers, they brought more hash rate online. But the real number to look at is number of participants. And at the high, there were nearly 500 individual participants.

And as of today, there's 364. And their miners are leaving, they're pointing their hash power, their hash rate to pools that make more economical sense. And you love to see it, that's what you really wanna see.

And that's the best way to tell Ocean that their position on censoring transactions, whether it be Whirlpool or Ordinals or whatever they are, is not wanted in the space. - Yeah, John, if you're there, you'll probably speak better to this than I will.

So jump in if you can. But it seems like at the moment, the thing that's keeping miners in business, especially in small miners, are these fees. So it does seem especially now that more and more people will be jumping away from that.

- I can also add something I bore about the ocean mining pool, how they have the policy that they don't pay out until they themselves have found a block. So that has also, in combination with the rest, pissed off their user base, because they're mining less transaction fees than other pools, which means that even when they do get

the block, there will be less fees in it. So yeah, it's stacked on top of each other. People feel like they got the worst end of it being part of ocean mining. - What a shitty pool. - And he also was saying that, as I mentioned, the pool operators themselves have increased hash rate, hash power and pointed it at the pool,

which by default reduces the share value of all the other miners. So when they even, if they find another block, which is looking less and less likely, if they find another block, the actual individual miners who have pointed towards that pool are gonna get less because pool operators have added more hash rate.

So their share has increased. - I first want to say that, why buy the cow if you're giving the milk away for free max? - If we got a show coming out, you're basically just puking our entire show all over, Twitter.

- I'm so sorry. - For free, terrible. I think they're a major contributor, and I'd better verify this, but one of the larger hash rate contributors to ocean was Bob Burnett and barefoot mining.

So perhaps everyone is right. Like, well, we don't have the hash rate right now, and that looks bad, and then we get in this tip with Sam Rye, and we piss off all the ordinal people, and we're turning everyone off because we're mining our values, so to speak, instead of adhering to mining economics,

well, we need to dip into the kitty a little bit more. We have all this investment money, all this VC money, so we'll just pay, and I believe barefoot mining have kicked out like a quarter of their hash to allegiance or ocean, but they still have other stuff going to other pools, and that's the talk during that little announcement thing

was, hey, this is great. We want to compare how well ocean does with payouts and everything, actually through this marketplace will do better than the normal, just taking everything in the mempool thing.

So we're kicking up a quarter of our hash, let's just say, and of course, the other three quarters of our hash will go to our normal pools. So if you really believed in all of it, you'd put 100% of your hash in there.

So they probably just dipped into the kitty and said, hey, can we have a little bit more 'cause this looks bad within the first couple weeks of our launch that we're dropping hash. It's all about mining economics, as we said, yes, everyone.

I hope in this space, we'll listen to the show when it comes out on Sunday, you know, as our-- - No, no, no, that's it, yeah. - You're getting the milk for free. You got to pop blocks, and they're not popping blocks.

So they have to do something. Bingo, that's it for me. - Jamie, you've had your hand up, mate. - Hey, can you hear me? - Not really, mate. - It sounds like you're in a hurricane. - I'm in my car, right, I've got driving.

All right, my question is, I got the tanto on Black Friday. - Nice. - Got it last weekend. I was setting it up. Having issues with staying connected and stuff, but my question was, I just asked it on the pleep miner telegram group.

How do I know that it's secure running it on a regular browser? Like, when Max, when you say you're a fuck to it, I'm a fuck to it times 10. - I know exactly what you're talking about when you go into the UI and on a browser and it pops up like a scary warning.

- Well, it also turns on to. - Kind of, yeah, but it says, on the address bar, it says not secure. - Right, I mean, I know Pavel can also talk more to this, but that's because the web UI is self-hosted.

Even if we had the certifications in there, it would still give you this weird error and you would have to go through even a couple extra steps to basically like approve the certification that we could generate.

So what it's saying is that because we're relying on that local connection, and if it's not local, it's through Tor but that local connection of your self-hosted web browser or your self-hosted web page, it's given a scary warning 'cause most websites have to have a security certification

to basically say like, hey, this is a valid website and it's safe and it uses an extra security protocol. That's the HTTPS that you normally see. So without that, your web browser is designed to say like, hey, be careful.

It doesn't know the difference between something that's being hosted by you and something that's hosted by like an out-facing internet. - So I need to do this. - So you can ignore it. - I'm running it through the portal.

- Your Tonto itself is, yeah, so your Tonto's hosting it is the one that's hosting all of that stuff. So you don't have to worry about being insecure like what it's telling you. But maybe Pebble can make it more clear but I think I covered the gist of it.

Yeah, it's just something that you like, it's not something that we can fix easily. At least not without extra steps but it is something that you can safely ignore. - In retard speak, 'cause I keep asking about the same thing.

I think basically like, like, because you are speaking to your own server effectively, you don't have a certificate which like another website would have but you know that you're running, you're speaking to your own dojo.

So you're connecting directly to that. So you're not gonna fuck yourself. I think it's basically what is being said. - All right, got you, thank you. - Yeah, I think I can just qualify. We've been talking about this a couple of times already, even recently.

The thing is, right now it says that the site isn't secure. It isn't a huge issue since it's on the local network should be in your home. So you already, I guess, trust your home router and so on.

So it's not a huge issue but we would love to have a proper SSL certificate and thus have the HTTPS and being it totally secure. Even if your home router would be like malicious, problem is that for Panto, we would have to create a so-called self-signed certificate.

And the problem with that is that your web browser starts screaming even more when it encounters that. And so if we were to use self-signed certificate, then it would be a huge warning for users and our users would be even more scared.

So we have to still find a way to make it possible in some way. - If I can add to that, if you, I'm not sure if Zoko touched on this early 'cause I was multitasking, but if you use door browser that you can directly connect to your own endojo without having to worry about your local network even because it kind of works like a VPN

straight into the machine if you understand that one. - How do you do that? 'Cause somebody said you can't, I tried typing whatever, Ronen Dojo local in the Tor browser. - No, no, no. - So here's the deal.

- You can't. - If it has to be your local. - Sorry, mate. - If you have, if you're accessing your Ronen Dojo UI in the browser, the first time in your regular browser, you can see the dashboard and they have these buttons that say manage.

In there, one of them will have what's called an onion address. - Okay. - It'll be this long string of characters and it ends in dot onion. That's the one you enter into your Tor browser and then in your Tor browser, you're connecting directly to the machine.

- Okay, that's what I'm wondering. - Yeah. - But I can't do that until I'm fully synced though, right? - No, you can do it while it isn't synced. It just has to like install everything. It has to install the Dojo, but once it's installed and you can access the dashboard, you can tap manage on the Ronen Dojo tab

and then there is the Ronen address. - Okay, thank you, that's awesome. - All right. - If no one else has their hand up at the moment, I did have another question from Jimmy Hodler. I'm ax question for the spaces.

I won't be able to make it in person. How could the GUI/CLI and Ronen Dojo node be attacked and what is the best practice to mitigate these unlikely risks? Please also share my thanks for you, Zellco and the NIMS.

- I love that he like said, thank you to Zellco and the NIMS as if I'm not a NIM, but that's okay. (laughing) I won't be offended. So, I mean, I'll start it and then I know these other two will have even more to say and I'll let them do it 'cause they're the rock stars.

I'm just a pretty face. With that said, it kind of depends on how you define attack because there's physical attack and then there's attacking it with software. So, I'll touch on the physical attack, at least part of it, which is if you're running a Tonto and someone breaks into your home and steals your node,

you have to worry about the data that's stored on NVMe and what they can do with that. In the case of Tonto and Dojo as a whole, the only thing that's stored on there are the ex-pubs that you have synced to it, right?

So, yes, all the transaction history and everything that you're worried about is there, so that would be bad as far as privacy goes, right? Like someone would be able to have access to prove to say that, hey, well, at least they could try to prove you could also say that that's one could be, you know, an Uncle Jim and host many people,

but presumably that is your ex-pubs, your transactions that they're seeing. So, there's that threat. - So, before you move on to threat number two, can I just break that down slightly? When you say physical attack, someone comes into your home or wherever you're hosting it, they get access to your Tonto.

What are they having to do to get access to your ex-pubs? If you have like your password that you use to get into UI or that you set on your Tonto when you originally set it up, are they gonna have to break through that?

Or is there a way that, if they have physical access and they know what they're doing, that they can do this anyway? - Yeah, I mean, yeah, they would need to, and maybe one of these guys can correct me if I'm wrong, they would need to gain access to the device or they would need to just take it,

they could take the NVMe out as long as it has been corrupted or reflashed, anything like that. And then once they have that database, the ex-pubs are stored in the dojo database, so they would need to be able to go into the database, use the password associated with the database to be able to access and then parse through the tables.

That's what a myriad DB database uses tables to be able to correlate the ex-pub and all of the transactions within it. And a lot of these two correct make is that is, I know about databases, I've learned about them, but there's so much technical side to it, so, but they would need to have the technical know-how

to be able to parse through the dojo database to be able to get through. - Your average drop or is it? - I'm 100% average. - There's levels to this shit, mate. - Well, you know, like I said, I'm humbled by my team, you know, like they, one, they always keep me in check because they're partially assholes, but two, they, you know,

look, Tonto's, Ronan Dojo, none of this stuff is remotely possible where we are today without these guys, like without Pavel, Dan, without Dan making the amazing enclosure that you guys see.

And the rest of the team as far as helping with testing and support and QA, like none of this stuff is possible by myself, none of this stuff is possible, even with me and S2, it's just not.

And so without these guys, like, yes, they are significantly smarter than me. Without them, like, this isn't a thing. So all the credit goes to these guys. So that's, that's really what I meant.

But damn, did you, I know you like these threat models. Did you wanna talk about dive a little bit more into what I was saying? - You want me to describe more scenarios? 'Cause the first one you covered pretty well, I think.

- Yes, fuck yeah. - Yeah, so the first one being physical access, you either take the device with you or some component from it. I'm so sorry if my dog's making noise right now. Or if they know the password, which they shouldn't, then with physical access, they could use a keyboard to get access to the database.

That's all physical access. That's pretty straightforward. In terms of software attacks, there is, well, this one is sort of physical in the sense that if they either have access to the Wi-Fi, they could start sniffing packets on your network that doesn't mean they can see what transactions you're sending

'cause everything's over the door. But if there's sniffing on your network, they can see you accessing UI because that's HTTP, that was what that warning was about. So you don't want other people on your Wi-Fi if you don't trust them.

If that's the network that you're running your note on. If you have the capacity or know somebody, you can help you out with that. There are some routers that allow you to set a separate Wi-Fi setup for a-- - Like a guest.

- Yes, a guest network. That would be perfect for this. So that way they cannot sniff anything going on in your own home network. They could only sniff what's happening on the guest network and you don't have, you're not supposed to have your run and doge on your guest network so they can't find anything.

The other one that's physical in the same sense of network sniffing is if they, like I have my router in the, oh, I don't even know what the English word for that is, where you have all the, the, it's not plugs, where you have all the power running through and if something shorts, then you gotta flip the switch there.

- I've got my router's fuse box. - Thank you, the fuse box. I've got my router set up next to my fuse box, which is accessed on the outside of where I live. So if somebody were to go in there and, you know, have some kind of small, I don't know, maybe Raspberry Pi 4 or something and connect the network cable into my network.

And if I don't ever physically look at it, I wouldn't notice. Now, I'm technical savvy, so I check on what's connected to my network 'cause I look into my router settings. So I can see if somebody is trying that, but they can, if they were to do that, they can sniff just as much what's happening on the network

as somebody who's on the Wi-Fi. - Can I just ask a question on that? It sounds really fucking weird that you've done that. Is there a logical reason that you'd have your node set outside with public apps?

- Sorry, not my node, my router. They could, they could, oh, sorry, that's my bad. I'm trying to explain too many things at one site. - Okay, I'm pretty sure it's okay. - So yeah, my router is there, yeah.

So they could, you know, pop a network cable in that thing. I was gonna say something. Oh yeah, there's one other thing that's typical in Wi-Fi routers and that's called, I think it's called AP isolation or client isolation.

If you do that, I think that also stops it from being able to sniff what's happening with other clients on the network. I'm not too sure about that one. It's either it stops them from connecting to other clients or it stops them from seeing packets altogether to other clients.

I'm not sure that's one worth looking into. Those are, yeah, that's all the physical access portions of it, I think. If you have a software attack in the sense if you have a desktop computer in your home network or well, desktop computers more likely or laptop is more likely than a phone to have this.

But if that's compromised by malware, that malware could in theory have the same type of packet sniffing happening. So instead of them putting a physical device in your home, they could use your computer to start sniffing on the network and see what's happening.

So if you're on your phone checking UI that they could use your computer to see what the data is that's going back and forth between you and your UI. To protect yourself against these sniffing attacks, that's why I told the other guy, I'm sorry if I got your name, is that Jamie?

That if you use Tor browser, then you go straight to the device. There's nothing plaintext on the network whatsoever. So that is like your safest option in that sense. You just circumvent all that trouble right there.

- So even if you're at home and you could have access to your local network, you would still advise you go over Tor. - Yeah, that's if you don't trust your situation, basically. - But for best practice for someone like me who couldn't know realistically if someone's sniffing around or doing something

they shouldn't because I just wouldn't know. I wouldn't know what to look at. Then probably my best bet would be just to be safe, just to access it out of the door. - It is safer, yes. - Okay.

- The way, I think there are some improvements that the path already is working on for the local access. So there's less that that can be sniffed. As for the full HTTPS connection, that's way more work to get over the UX hurdles because yeah, otherwise users are just not gonna use it.

- I'm trying to think if there's more attack vectors like threat models often. - I think, or I assume the question was around the CLI, like the Drupal CLI or was it like the Dojo or on Dojo CLI?

- I think he's just talking whatever the attack vectors could be in general. I think probably less technical like me and just thinking like if you don't know a lot, you don't know what's possible.

So you can start fantasizing about these scenarios of like, oh, someone could get access to XYZ when actually maybe that's physically impossible and someone who understands what they're talking about would know that, but when you know very little, it's quite easy to get scared.

- Yeah, yeah, I see. In that case, I think if someone would be able to get to my Tanto or my node, if somebody is able to get into my home, I would actually be more worried and more careful with security of my private keys, like my backup seat.

Like, you know, if someone breaks into my house and steals my Tanto, my private keys are safe, I know that those expats are compromised. I'm just gonna create a new wallet and move all of my funds to a new wallet.

So right there, there's like, you can mitigate basically you will move all your funds to a new some rival and yeah, you will have to mix everything again to gain privacy. But yeah, if your private keys are safe, then that's still very small damage in my opinion.

- Are you saying this because you put your passphrase in when you go into the GUI and your concern that in some way that can be accessed or are you talking more generally about, are you just worried about expats and people being able to view transactions?

- No, no, no, no, generally, you know, I don't see, I don't see like that as a huge attack surface or that like the communication sniffing on the network. Even though next version of running UI will mitigate that.

So every sensitive data will be encrypted overall on network just to mitigate that, but I still think it's like negligible. - I think that probably covers the attacks. It's good to go over that kind of stuff 'cause a lot of people including myself worry.

I'd quite like to go into some of the updates. Maybe some of the people here didn't listen to the episode that Menzelco did. Maybe some people here aren't already or haven't already run, run and dojo.

It would be cool to go into some of the updates and what is now possible and outside of, obviously, the stuff we talked about with not like the improvements for a user. I don't know if anyone in here maybe has any questions before I jump into that.

Open, you've got your hand up. - I have one, we spoke about the attack and all realistic would it be to have like a kill switch where if you open the server itself like the run and dojo and you start missing with it, it's basically the attack that and shut it down.

The other question is since we discuss about Tor and using Tor even for local connection, I know you can specify less nodes in a Tor connection for instead of six. For instance, Facebook uses this because obviously you know you're gonna connect to Facebook anyway and they are not trying to hide.

And I wonder if this could be used to speed up performance. - Yeah, that's my two questions. - Yeah, so your first question was about, sorry, can you say that one more time? - Kill switch.

- Kill switch, thank you. All right, so for the kill switch, for Tonto users in particular in order to actually access it, right? - My first question was about kill switch and my next question was about using less Tor nodes instead like for instead of six or something.

- Gotcha. - Yeah, so for the kill switch with Tonto's in order to actually take the physical device or even open up the case, you have to unplug it, right? So what that happens, it's shutting it down anyways.

As far as a kill switch is necessary. I think it's a little overboard. It's something that we've definitely talked about and it's not something that we're necessary. - Are prioritizing at the moment.

And that's mostly because as soon as your device is turned off, a lot of the risk goes away. And then if users needed to like, you know, reflash or anything like that, now you've just completely wiped everything.

And for all the people that aren't like me and haven't had to read download the blockchain and sync nodes thousands of times at this point, it doesn't get any more fun ever. So, you know, that would be a huge user, like a huge regression and user experience.

It's a cool feature, as far as it sounds. If there was like actual funds on there, like I know the nodal had that, but they had lightning. So they had actual funds on the device. I can see that one, but as far as for us, it's not as huge of a risk.

So it's not as high of a priority for us. - You're talking about the relay amount, right? For a tour connection? I don't think there's that much benefit if you go for the six hops. 'Cause if you have like the bare minimum instead of hops to remove your IP address from the target, then after that, adding more hops actually increases

the amount of nodes out there that know that at some point, something was accessed. So I would argue for less in that sense. - All right, well, that sounds good. Did I answer your question, Perbin?

Well, it will look more into it. I haven't honestly done enough deep dive under the different number of connections, but it's a good point if you're bringing that up. There's an error adding powerful here for some reason.

- Lovely. Well, I mean, we can recap some of the stuff that we had for the release and we can talk about a release that we have coming up if that's cool. - Yeah, yeah, let's get into it. - So from the front-end side, which is the more fun side, the Whirlpool UI being added.

So that's been, as I kind of mentioned, the very, very beginning for the student catch it. That's been a long time coming from just as samurai users from the community. Having that new facelift for Whirlpool has been a huge, huge improvement.

And I think one of the best parts that I don't know how many people are necessarily gonna use or they might not appreciate it yet, but the fact that if you are initially pairing and you now have a very simple path to initializing your wallet.

And that's I think one of the biggest and most of not obnoxious is it's a fair complaint. But one of the most time consuming support things that we have to do is I can't get connected or I'm having an error in the Whirlpool GUI.

I'm sure if I was able to actually pull people in here and they were doing this, there's really somebody in here who's had that issue. There's multiple reasons for that to be a sticking point.

But the fact that you don't have to use the Whirlpool GUI desktop app is massive. And the fact that when you go to initialize it now, you can go to your mobile phone where you have samurai wallet, go into the transactions tab, get the pairing payload for Whirlpool, copy it, go to the Tor browser, open up your run in UI

in the Tor browser and then go to the apps and then initialize it'll have the initialize dialog box and you paste it in there, type in your passphrase and then you are now initialized and you can start mixing right now.

That's a significant, significant, significant, improvement in the user experience. That to me was probably the coolest part about all of it. That and the little spinning logo, when you go full of-- - I love that spinning logo.

- I love that thing. I don't know why it's so simple and it's kind of silly, but that to me is one of my favorite things and I've formally requested and everyone's a witness now that I want to see that spin every time a mix happens or confetti pop out, I don't know, or the Whirlpool logo with the shades and a joint, that would be cool.

I would like to do something, I don't know. - Yeah, that would be nice. - 'Cause why not, I don't know. Yeah, but then you're going to have everybody sitting there waiting and keeping their run in UI open, just waiting for a mix.

Yeah, so that was massive. From the CLI side, what started was supposed to be a bug fix that we had that was patched and tested and ready for release within like four days of finding, of actually finding it out confirming it, turned into this whole kernel debacle that's been a huge, huge pain, but has since settled down significantly.

So that wasn't as fun of an update or by any means, but it was a huge time sync and I know me and damn and we're still monitoring it, but we spent countless hours deep diving into Linux kernels and the ugly side of software that people don't know anything about for the most part.

And yeah, so we're grateful to be nearly out of the end of that and then we have the 2.1.2, which should be coming out here shortly, but that was the big update that we kind of put out like back-to-back days pretty much.

I don't know if I missed anything, you guys can jump in if I missed something or max if you got anything else. I'm just gonna add that I added the spinning protocol specifically because I knew that Zoko was gonna love it.

'Cause I didn't stop talking. But I love that it stopped talking about that. It is nice though. If it rolls, it gets your girls. Well, speaking as a technical retard, the usability of this thing is fucking amazing now.

I've been pretty open about my issues that I've had running Dojo in the past and it's all completely my fault and I get that. But this last setup of Tanto was just a completely different universe for me.

Like I sat and I enjoyed it and I spent basically no time at all and everything worked and was slick and it's a completely different experience too. Like four years ago, with a bottle of whiskey for an entire night and then doing that the next night and then doing that the next night

and just having constant issues and stress and persevere 'cause I wanted to do it and I wanted to run it and this is the team that I respect and they're doing things the right way but fuck me if I didn't want to jump out of the window.

It was very annoying and now I feel comfortable like saying to friends and family, look, just go and buy a Tanto, plug this in. It's slick, it works and yeah, it's a pleasure to work with so I appreciate you all.

- Well, and you joined in the time when we were still recovering retards trying to figure out how to make it all work and I love when I finally do meet people that were running this from the beginning and actually like stuck with it 'cause I look back and I just think I've said it like I was just so frustrated but it was,

you know, it's been a journey. So people that were with us have been with us for years now have seen it grow and truly can understand like how much that our team has improved with the talent around us but also just like from the core team, how many people, how much better that we've gotten and what we really are setting out to accomplish

and I appreciate anybody that's been there through the struggle but hopefully they learned a thing or two. I know I should certainly have super proud of our team and what we got coming. So it's really exciting.

I definitely appreciate everybody if we have any long-term people. I know I see a very inlet in here and just for a little shout out for him for me personally 'cause I think back, I've mentioned before I had old guides, very, very, very old guides from when I was in like a, again, a knuckle dragging technical retard

that barely know how to do anything but as soon as I figured out how to do something, I wrote a guide and he specifically went out and helped give me some, he corrected some of my stuff and helped point out some things to help me get something fixed and I remember those things.

I don't know why there are people who reached out, took their time to help me and they've been burned in my brain. This one guy, Nicholas, who is a samurai community member and don't know who he is.

I mean, that's probably a name of his actual name but he, I don't know why, he just helped me so many times and I just can't forget it, you know? And so any time I'm struggling, you know, or if I wanna help somebody, I've had people who are like, oh, you don't have to spend your time helping me

or whatever and I just reflect back to that, you know? A lot of this Bitcoin stuff, man, it's humbling when you come from nothing, like from no technical stuff to just having the passion to build and having the passion to get back to the community and support a larger community that you truly love.

Bitcoin was cool, but it wasn't until I was in the samurai community and saw people helping me and saw people like spend time that like, yeah, there are people that do that in other communities.

I'm not doubting that, especially knowing how people truly feel about different things now. Like I just remember being super hyped ironically about samurai wallet and cold card and I was like, that would be so cool if they were like, work together.

Now I'm looking back and like, and people help me. People help me get that set up to be able to use them. Like they didn't, no one made fun of me for it. No one said I was stupid and no one said anything bad which was ironic, you know, as phone maxis, they were still helping me with everything without any shred of like, you're a dumbass.

And so like, I felt super connected almost immediately and then I felt even more connected when I saw the red wallet like dunking out people on Twitter. I was like, this is the type of people I want to be around.

But, you know, I'm just, I'm just a real life degenerate sometimes so I like that stuff. But it's humbling to be able to like be a regular person and then being able to build something that people really appreciate and seeing other communities come out and build on top of it.

And like, you know, people are making it for x86 and doing all this cool stuff. And I'm like, it's like super, super humbling. I can't really put it into words 'cause I'm not that smart, but like it's been an amazing journey.

So I really, really do appreciate everybody's helped throughout the, you know, along the way. 'Cause it really can't be here without community members just helping each other. - You said it in the podcast about if people are obviously just being ourselves, you would just say that I'll give you your money back,

just fucking take the time to go back, I don't want to deal with you. 'Cause you can sniff out the real ones, the people that are here for the right reasons and then you're gonna be happy to spend your time and help them because you know that if we are building circular economies and we are breaking away,

then they're the people that you want to be working with. So you put the time in and if they're not, then fuck them, move on. - No, absolutely. I actually have a case very similar to that.

And on the flip side, like I try to tell people, like I have very limited time, only 24 hours in a day. I would say probably 20 of them are spent occupied doing something and none of which are anything non-productive.

I wish I had more time to like sit around and play video games or something, but I will gladly spend that time with people. I will gladly spend that time. If you're a person that wants this, that wants to learn you're having an issue and I feel it.

Yeah, if I can squeeze 30 minutes, 10, five minutes, I'll do it. Whatever I can do, I will do. And it was, again, that's like me paying it forward. Samurai wallet in particular did that for me in the very beginning I had an issue and it was the middle of the night for him and he like let me get a coffee and he helped me.

That's the kind of stuff that separates communities, in my opinion. Like I know that that is not the case for everybody else. I know, you know, there are some, I'm not trying to like say everybody else sucks, but like it is not the case for every single community to have people to do that.

And in particular with companies and software teams that are building tech as amazing as Samurai wallet for having someone who leads the whole thing to sit down and help a person is eye opening.

And I just hope that people feel that way if I can ever help them because I will do it. I'll make the time. I'll figure it out. The sleep is a, is a crutch, so yeah. - And I've seen that from you, the whole team, Samurai, like everyone that I've interacted with over the last four, five years have been extremely helpful.

Like I say, I think it's because you know if someone's actually there for the right reasons, if someone's actually gonna be building and working in the same space and then it's worth putting the time in.

But if anyone's listening to this and maybe they're not either running Samurai or running Rondojo and you're thinking, oh, this, you know, maybe seems a little bit over my head. I can promise you like there's no one in here who was less technical than me.

And I've managed it, especially now. So don't be afraid. And if you come in here for the right reasons and you're not just being an asshole and you're not just here for a number to go up and you care about freedom, there are people who will give you unbelievable amounts of time and help.

And even me, I'll help you in my own special way if I can. So yeah, just come and ask the questions. - Does anybody else have any questions or wanna shoot anything? Open book, I'll take it.

Looks like there's questions or there's these comments and a thing below. - Yeah, currently. I'll see any hands up. It keeps spazzing out. Like you're showing us on mute, but you're not on mute.

Gabriel looks like he's gonna cry but in a nice, sweet way looking at the emojis. I hear they are requested. - So there's a question and we'll answer it. And if Samara, if you wanna add in too, 'cause it's kind of a Samara question, but I don't know if you meant to say Ken, but can Samara be on par in terms of seed security

as other hardware while it's like cold card? - I'm assuming he's referring to an offline mode. It's a little disconcerting that the seed is generated on a mobile wallet. Should I create a new seed in offline mode?

So Samara talked about this and this is from BTC dentist. So hopefully he's keeping his teeth clean, but for, sorry, my jokes are really dry. I was stupid. Yeah, so we talked about this in the last spaces for Samara and one of the benefits of generating a seed on a mobile device is that it's not rooted.

And so there's a lot more security in that aspect and it's sandboxed. So it's significantly safer in that aspect. There's benefits to different setups, of course, but yeah, if you're overly concerned, you can generate it offline, you can roll dice for it.

There's multiple different ways, but ultimately one of the best parts is just having the passphrase saves you significantly. I mean, it's one of the most underrated aspects of Samara wallet and of the 39 is just having a passphrase saves you so much.

I mean, I think one of the cool things that you could do if you are really concerned, especially about a physical attack or anything like that, you could even make a distress wallet with funds in it.

That way, if someone is trying to get to it, you have this ability to pull up on a wallet that is your safe bet. And you have the really cool feature where you can have the stealth mode and it's a calculator or whatever.

That actually works, by the way. That's pretty sweet. It just reminds me of something we were kind of talking about a different medium, but with different regulations and different obstacles.

This is more geared for like Samara. I think one thing that's really, really cool is back in the day, they had the stealth mode and you used to have to use SMS to, you could text SMS and it would come back.

It would just disappear off your phone, but once you text SMS, give or take, I wasn't cool enough to be able to use this. It scared the shit out of me when I first saw it 'cause I didn't know that I'd be able to get my wallet back on my phone, but so that feature was there and then Google required them to take it off

and they wanted to continue to be in the Google store so they adapted, right? So they adapted and that feature was gone for a long time. It was still available on their GitLab for people to be able to download and use if you wanted to, but you missed mobile mixing and all these other different features.

Now they have something that I would argue is significantly better than that other option. It was a different option, but I think this option is significantly better and that you have an app that looks like an app that is just right there in front of people's faces and you can use it and now it comes back.

It's just a fact that there was an obstacle in front of them and instead of rolling over and just saying like, "Hey, we'll never get to have something like this again," adapting instead of like complying.

You're saying, "I can't have this, I'm gonna find another way." Right, like I'm not gonna just let you sit here and tell me some other shit and tell me that I can't do this. I'll play by your rules for now, right?

But I'm gonna find a way around your stupid rules. Every set of rules is gonna have a gap, right? There's always gonna be a gray that you can work your way into, there's always gonna be some way to just route around and still hit that wicket that you want, still hit the feature that you're trying to get and it's an amazing feature.

So if you haven't played with it, I highly recommend, just make sure you pay attention to how to get it back on. I totally forgot one day and then I just had to play around a bunch, but it's outstanding.

So I just shut out for that feature. If I missed anything on that question for the seed generation, anybody can jump in on it. - So BTC Dentist has asked this question now about 22 times and the answer is not gonna change.

Creating a seed on a mobile device is far more secure than doing so on a desktop device. As Elko mentioned, by default, even if you are running with just stock Android with Google and all that shit on it, by default, the operating system is sandboxed.

Apps can't talk to each other. No other app can look at what's in the samurai app space. It's a fairly secure method, certainly more advisable to do it on mobile than on desktop. If you're ultra paranoid and you just don't trust anything except for a $100 piece of plastic, then by all means buy that $100 piece of plastic.

If it makes you sleep better at night, I think they're entirely not worth it. And I've read countless issues that people have had who have created seeds on their cold card or ledger or their treasure or whatever hardware wallet they're using.

And they do so in a way that is low entropy and get their funds swept away. So I think yes, you can do dice rolls. Yes, you can do all this shit, but most people don't need to do that, let the wallet do it for you.

And you'll get a secure high entropy seed created. And if you want to do it on the hardware wallet and do it on the hardware wallet, if you want to do it on mobile, do it on mobile, don't do it on desktop, generally though, unless you can be very certain that you have a good hygiene on that desktop.

As for stealth mode, yeah, you kind of got it right. It wasn't really to do with the play store. It was to do with Google making changes to Android, meaning that methodology of hiding and displaying the wallet based on a SMS wouldn't work anymore after a certain Android version.

So it was the, you have to make this change if you want to stay in the play store, but ultimately it was, it's just not going to work on Android from version X. So that's why we took it out.

And once we reintroduced it, as Zilco said, we reintroduced it in a way that is superior than what it was. You are able to hide your wallet on the device. So the casual observer on your device won't be able to see that you have Samurai wallet installed.

There'll be a decoy app like a calculator or a VPN client or note app. And you can do something in that app in the calculator. For example, you press the equal sign five times and then it will launch Samurai and you'll enter your PIN code and then you can get in.

And then if you forget how to get in, just go on to our documentation site and there's instructions for each decoy app on how to access it. - Thank you. - Yeah, I'm still done. - A big thing that you were talking about there, Samurai, not only is that the C generation but also you've got your passphrase.

Loads of people reach out to me about this and they're like, oh, do I really need one? Blah, blah, blah. Like all these questions, but I've been told not to use one because it's added complexity and all this kind of stuff.

And I'm like, just fucking use one. It's not that difficult. - You're insane, guys. - You have passphrase. - I agree. And in a way, it does matter how you generate your seed, obviously. But if you've got a strong passphrase on top, you're still in a very good position and you guys enforce that that is used, which most people don't.

So I feel pretty secure. - Yeah, it's one of the best features of Bit39, as Elko said. And it's not enough within the space. We decided very early on to enforce the Bit39 passphrase to make it mandatory on wallet creation.

And it's, I think, has saved a lot of people's skin, you know, because you can tell a user, hey, don't screenshot your words. Don't add your 12 words into your phone. Don't save them into your notes app.

And they're going to do it anyway, because that's just what users do. And at least with the passphrase, you have that extra step of security. I think it was with you, Max, that we were talking about it.

And I kind of called it like a 2FA for your wallet. You know, it's kind of like a 2FA code. You need both pieces of information. You need your 12 words, and you need that unique passphrase that only you created.

And without those two pieces of information, you can't regenerate the wallet in the same way. So, you know, it's an essential thing. And we've actually had very few instances of users not remembering their passphrase and losing access to their phones, very few.

We've had a lot that come and say, oh, I didn't create a passphrase. And we tell them, you absolutely did, 'cause there's no other way to do it. Take a deep breath and think about it. You know, think about maybe it's common words that you use.

Maybe it's a password that you use often, but just have a think. And most of the time they come back and go, oh, yeah, I did have one. And I was like, yeah, I know you did, 'cause there's no other way.

No, but, you know, they eventually remember it and they get in. And that's, again, very few of those actual instances have happened over the years. Most people understand what they're dealing with here and take good precaution when making backups, whether it be on paper or screenshotting their words, which please don't do.

And if you do screenshot your words, don't keep them in the same place as your passphrase. - I made a link in the chat for anyone who missed that conversation where we went deep into this topic.

That's in the chat now, but yeah, I mean, I just don't understand why someone finds it so difficult. It's like, oh, I can write down 24 words or I can stamp them into a seal, but passphrase is too much for me.

It's like, bitch, fucking grow up. - How hard is it to write one more thing down? - You've written 24 words, the most hard to write one more. - You can always verify it though, inside the app.

- Yeah, yeah, you can verify the passphrase is corrected inside the app. The app won't show you the passphrase. So, you know, if someone gets access to your phone and they know your PIN and they get in there, they won't be able to reveal the passphrase itself, but you will be able to, yeah, you will be able to say here,

this is the passphrase, I think it is, and the wallet will say, that's it, yep, you got it, or I'll say, nope, that's not it, try again. So, yeah, it's just, I think it's silly because writing down 12 or 24 words is not common.

There's no other flow for that in anything else that people have encountered. It's pretty unique to Bitcoin, but a password or passphrase is the most common authentication that everyone is familiar with, from grandmother to small child, they know about passwords and pass phrases.

So, you know, keeping track of one word that you have created and you have the, you know, defined shouldn't be that difficult. Considering, as you said, you're already keeping track of 12 words that have been generated for you or 24 words that have been generated for you.

- Would it be safe to say just for anyone this name who might think, oh, I'll just use one word as my passphrase, that that may be also isn't the smartest thing to do, because especially if people are told use one of the 2048 words, whatever it is, on that list, then someone, if you were a fucking idiot

and you did take a picture of your 12 or 24 words, then they'd just go, oh, well, I'll just try 2048 times and I'll actually get in. It would be much more advisable to have a more complex passphrase.

- Yeah, it's just like the password. - Yeah, it's just like using a password on like, you know, your email or something. The easier the password, the easier it is to crack it, the less amount of time it takes to crack it.

But yeah, I've seen that go by, oh, use words from the word list, but that's ridiculous. You don't have to do that. You can use whatever word you want. The passphrase is essentially a 13th or 25th word, depending on the length of your seed.

So it's a custom word that you can define or words that you can define. Just make it something that has a good amount of entropy, maybe it has multiple words or some punctuation or numbers or whatever, or use the EFF word list, which is a lot larger than the bit 39 word list.

Throw some dice a couple of times, come up with a cool password that your passphrase that you can remember and just use that. - And back it up. - You know, we have on sammywalla.com, there's a PDF that you can print out that you can write your 12 words in.

It has all of the derivation paths that the wallet is expecting. And then there's a section that you can cut off from the rest for your passphrase and keep your passphrase separately backed up from your 12 words.

I think people, you know, make too much of this and try to complicate things when it's really not that complicated. - Agreed, it's not that hard. It's actually one of the easiest use flows I've used.

- Yeah. - The least problem. - And actually, since, you know. The question is, when every dojo coordinator. - Yes, when is every dojo gonna be a coordinator? - Oh, who asked that? - Pretty sure it was Cordic, Shocker.

- We are ready. When it's ready. We're already starting with decentralization of the world pool coordinator. You can see it on testnet. It's happening today, stage one at least. So, you know, we wanna make sure things are right.

There's a lot of work to do still, but we are moving steadily in that direction. It's kind of the number one, one of the number one priorities that we've been working on over the last year or more.

So we'll be seeing stuff soon. And, you know, if you've been around Samurai long enough you realize that we release things incrementally. So it's not gonna be day one, 100% decentralization.

There's gonna be stages and you should start seeing stage one and stage two soon. But this is not a sound like you and I. - It's true. - I don't wanna steal from these guys. - Screw you. - Screw you man.

That was probably the best, I know. That was one of the most direct answers to a timeline that I've ever heard from Samurai. So congratulations, Cordic, you win. He didn't say. - He didn't say zero, I believe is actually coded.

And it's just waiting on UI. So that should be very soon. - Multi TX0? - Yes, I believe, I might be wrong, but I believe it's actually coded already. They're just waiting on UI from me. - About the passphrase.

Back to the passphrase. That is actually a good way to memorize your passphrase because you actually needed to unlock the global CLI. So right now, just a lot of misunderstanding. Just in general, what it's transaction zero is.

And just overall, you know. - I don't want that idea to have a look. - I'm not doing it again, Cordic. I've explained TX0 now a million times since December 6. And I did it yesterday on the podcast with the Conno Alchemist and Divertors.

So just wait until that drops and we can go through it again there. - Yeah, you'll get it, don't worry, but I think it's near the exhaustion point as far as talking about it. But yeah, any other questions, anything else anybody else want to talk about?

- I don't think so. Other than travel, I don't like your idea of memorizing your passphrase. I think that's dumb. - Yeah, dummy. - Don't do that. - Some people can do it. Memorize it. - That's what I meant, like have it written down, of course, somewhere safe.

But if your passphrase is like that, not some gibberish, you will eventually memorize it when using Drupal. - That's my point. I don't think you want to ever know it. I know that's controversial, but I think it's cool.

- It is. It's controversial, Max. - You should tattoo it on you. - I think you should tattoo it on the inside of the lip. I think you should never, ever remember it because it's not a good idea to remember it because that's the key that unlocks your funds if someone really wants to do you harm.

And so if you genuinely cannot, then you cannot. - Well, I think I like Dan's idea, but instead of on your lip, it needs to be like on your grundle. - On your what? - Grundle, yeah. Under your nut sack.

- Oh, your nut sack? - Under your nut sack. Yeah, yeah, under. - It has to be bigger nut sack. Not on the nut sack, under. - Okay. - But now, honestly, however people want to take care of their stuff, that's up to them, you know?

And just use the tools. That's all it really comes down to, use the tools. And yeah, let's keep building a better, more private future that doesn't censor and doesn't watch the privacy world burn.

So let's keep pushing back and see where we can get. - Agreed. All right, mate. Well, there may be other questions, but I need to do some editing. We've been on here for a couple of hours.

I think we've covered most things. And yeah, reiterate that is appreciate everyone who's here and standing for freedom and doing what is necessary. There is so much fucking bullshit in this space.

I often just think I can't be bothered with this. When you're doing a nine to five or six to eight and you come home and you're then jumping into the Bitcoin world and you deal with silly cunts who only care about money and who's the most famous and who can go on a stage and all this bullshit.

You guys keep me going. So I appreciate you. - Yeah, thank you for releasing that dodgy version. - Yeah, it'll be out in Rome, Dodger here shortly too. But now Max, we appreciate you, appreciate everybody who joined us.

Like I said, it's what keeps us going. So use the tools, join the community, ask the questions and learn and then contribute, do something. Figure it out. We're always here. We always appreciate everybody.

- Yeah, by releasing that version. I think you made the thing that you don't care about the users. - You and Aaron made 'cause that's dull. - Yeah, everyone here, have a good Christmas. I know your shadowy super coders and all that, but enjoy time with family if you've got one and have a wind down, have a whiskey and you've earned it.

I appreciate you all and much love and we'll catch up on the next one. - See ya. - Merry Christmas everyone. - Merry Christmas. - Thanks for everything and a shout out to Ungovernable Misfits.

Thank you for the poster. - Awesome, it looks fucking good. Thank you for buying that mate and yeah, thanks for everything you did. - Oh no, I won that with posting a meme. - I will fuck you then.

(laughing) - Memeward. (laughing) - Fucking Weasel, right, I'll take all that back. Fuck you all. - Bye.