Secure your sats with @SeedMint21Bitcoin is precious.

Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless.

Let's go!

Now, what's the Bitcoin? Bitcoin's like rat poison. Yeah. Oh. The greatest scam in history. Let's get it. Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right, you ungovernable misfits. I'm your host, Max. Everybody knows that Bitcoin is useless, worthless, and doomed to fail. But what if everyone's wrong? What if it's the system that is doomed to fail?

Join me as I speak to some of the brightest people in the space and slither to the deepest, darkest depths of the Bitcoin rabbit hole.

Welcome back, everyone. Today, I am joined by Nick and Antimus. You will already know Antimus from my shows that I do with Bitcoin Q&A. And I've also had him on the show solo. Fucking awesome bloke.

And he's actually been working with Nick from Seidman. They're doing some incredible things, which we get into in this interview. And after doing the interview, I asked of there's any way that I can help.

So actually now we're doing a giveaway, which is live now. So if you go on to the Seidman Twitter, you will be able to like and share for a chance to win a Seidman. These things are fucking beautiful.

I am desperate to have one. And we had a few audio issues. That is usual on the show, a bit of a delay, and I couldn't hear everything that was coming through. So I'm going to get these back on very soon, actually, because there's a lot coming down the pipeline.

They've got some amazing designs and a lot more going on in the background. So look out for that. Really hope you enjoyed this show. And best of luck, I hope you win. [MUSIC PLAYING] Here he is.

Hey. Hello. Hello, mate. Can you hear us all right? It sounded a bit funny on your end. Right now, I can hear you. Can you understand me, good? Yeah, yeah, no, I've got you. Welcome to the show, Seidman.

And welcome back, Antimus. Nice to speak to you both. Thanks for having us. Yeah, man, it's been an absolute pleasure. I've been admiring these segments from afar for a long time. I'm really fucking jealous of MTC.

He keeps showing off and telling me how great his is. And I'm yet to see one in the flesh. But yeah, really good to speak to the man who's behind all of this. And yeah, I mean, every day that passes, I feel like I'm short, Seidman.

So we need to sort that out at the end of this interview so I can get stamping. Sounds good, yeah. So for anyone who doesn't know you, everyone who listens to this show will know Antimus now.

If you don't, you can go back and listen to the pod I've done with you. I think it was like five episodes ago, wasn't it? So have a listen to that. But Seidman, for anyone who hasn't seen what you have built and what you're all about, can you do a bit of an introduction for me?

Yeah, of course. My name is Nick first. Seidman is the product. My name is Nick. I didn't want to dox you there. I wasn't sure if that was public. Yeah, I figured out it's fine. So, yeah, actually I had the need for a special kind of code storage.

And so I set out to think of something. And I was not pleased with the alignment of all the letters and numbers on my washes. And so I started to design a jig, which helps me to center all the letters and numbers on the washes so they look nice because I'm kind of a perfectionist maybe.

Yes. And then I just tweeted a picture out about it on my plug account. And I can remember short on and MTC and shortly after also I was they jumped on it and said, we need this. Let's do something.

And I haven't even considered starting to do segments and selling them or anything in those regards. So it was born out of necessity. You decided to build this for yourself at the beginning.

Yeah, that's it. And later on, I just could not say no, because I'm weak in that. That was concerning. And how do you two know each other? Was it literally from that tweet? And then Antimus reached out to you?

Or how did that come about? Yeah, Antimus pretty much was, I believe, the second or third person reaching out after my first tweet on the treatment account after I decided to go forward. And just make the design available open source.

That was the first intention. Because short on ask me to do so. I said, yeah, why not? I will sit down on the weekend, make the drawings, and you can have them available. Because I believe somebody in his family has got the capabilities of doing mechanical stuff.

And yeah, he wanted to have one done for himself. And it started from there. And shortly after, Antimus, he wrote me and asked if he could contribute in any way. And I was stoked on that.

And it started from there. Maybe Antimus, you can fill us in. Yeah, I just think it's by chance I just came across it. And I actually saw the first one I saw was with the 21ism milled into it.

It was really beautiful. Just the whole design of the thing. And it was really just-- yeah, it appealed to me. I really like nice streamlined design, functional design. And along we can really see that it would hold up for decades.

And I have a mechanical engineering background. So I thought that's a great project to contribute to as I'm pretty used to doing drawings and setting up models and so on. So yeah, I reached out and set off from there.

It was really cool just tinkering around. I mean, phone calls, getting to know Nick. It's been a really great relationship, just building like over the last few months, just having regular calls and chatting about different ideas.

And yeah, kind of building from there. That's nice. It seems that a lot of people are really into this idea of having something as well that they can pass down, something that is not going to just break in two minutes.

And when you consider that the amount of effort and time that goes into stacking sat, to understand Bitcoin, to understand that this really could be world changing, the only thing that sort of ties you to the physical realm, really a very small handful of items.

So when you are using these items, you do want them to be beautiful and functional. And that's what really appealed to me about the seed mint is that I was looking at that and I was thinking, well, this isn't going to break in two minutes.

This is something that is really going to last. And it looks stunning. And I love that you can customize it. The 21 is in one really, really came out beautifully. And when you're doing something as important as stamping your seed, it should be done with something beautiful and it should be done with something

that you're going to enjoy using. The only other thing that I've used, which is sort of similar ish is the block mitt. But obviously, those things only have a certain amount of life in them because you're smashing them with a hammer and they're plastic.

So was that something that you'd previously seen? Or did it just so happen that you sort of were designing this at the same time? Yeah, actually not even. I don't know. I really didn't come across any of the cell phone ninja or block mitt or any of those.

Yeah, off the design of block mitt or any of the tutorials, how to do stuff like that. I really just thought about it and that's what I came up with. And the materials that you've used, is it brass?

The front bit is brass and the rest is steel? Yeah, it's three parts of it are from brass and two are from high carbon steel. And the high carbon steel is what? It's just like stronger or doesn't rust or what's the?

No, it can rust actually. So it's not rust, it's stainless. But it's durable. The same material as an anvil or something would be the same. Oh, you wish with your block mitt. OK. But it's not hard and not anything.

It's not quenched. But it can take being smashed with a hammer a few times? Yeah, definitely. Worst case, you'll need a file and file it out a bit. It's just cosmetics, gives it correct, in my opinion.

And so once you guys started speaking, what happened? What parts, Antimus, have you jumped in on? Is it the actual design of the seedment? Or is it now helping with some technical stuff to help with sales and stuff like that?

Yeah, it's a whole bunch of different things. At the beginning, because of my background, I focused more. I had a few ideas straight away of different things to add on to it or different ways to maybe enhance functionality.

But it's always a bit difficult if you don't have one of them in front of you to actually test and see what's going on there. So I played around a bit with a few different changes to that.

And then we spoke about that for a while. And then, yeah, I think we came to a point pretty fast where Nick also said that he just liked to get it started and to just get a few of them out and then think about improvements after that and just see what the-- what the market feedbacks is or the feedback nuts it.

Exactly. So then, since then, it's been a lot of-- yeah, we've both not like prolific hackers or network engineers, so we've been tinkering around with staying up VTC pay server and getting all the domains lined up and connected.

And yeah, all of that, so it's been a lot of trial and error to get that done because we wanted to do it right the first time. So that's been taking a bit. Yeah, but been a lot of fun. So we've been doing that.

And then on the side, we've also been thinking about different products. We could also do to match their different accessories to go along with it and how we could build up a stack there.

So yeah, a lot of interesting discussions. So you are thinking about spinning off other products that would go along with it? Yeah. Antemos actually came up with a great design for a node enclosure, which is the biggest measurement.

I think that's the best detail. I've got the doxies. The biggest measurement is like 210 millimeters. That's the length of the node case. And everything else is derived from those 210 millimeters by the golden ratio.

So it's a really nice design. It's completely clean. It's all from steel and brass, also. He's stick to the concrete by the entity for so far. Yeah, we'll see where we go together with this side.

We're still in the process of getting to know each other. That's what I believe is when I would drive to where Antemos lives, because it's not that far, actually, from where I live. I just haven't got a car or anything.

So we'll see. In the next few weeks, I believe we can do that. That's where the magic happens when you can actually meet in person. It's so nice when you get to speak to someone in person.

I find because, obviously, we do a lot of design and changes with 21ism all the time. And with us all being in either different parts of the country or different countries, we never get to actually all be together as a group.

And I do feel sometimes if we could just sit together for a day, we would get done in one day what we would in two weeks. Because you can convey your ideas. You can sharpen things. You can quickly iterate when you're sat next to each other.

So yeah, I can't wait to see what you guys come up with. I'm sure it will be brilliant. And please stick with the brass. I love the brass. The look of that, those details are just stunning.

And I can only imagine what a node case would look like and feel like as well, because this thing must be very weighty. Yes, absolutely. I mean, we haven't actually built one yet. The designs, I set up the design first for the case.

And then while going through that, I then focused more on the hardware, like from inside, wanted to do a dual setup. So you can actually have two pies in there. Because it's also just such an aesthetic thing as not just functional.

And that's also a bit of a differentiation between the seed mint and the node case. The node won't run any faster, just because it's in a nice case. But it has the same appeal and the same philosophy behind it of just having something for the ages.

And so we also wanted to have it as clean as possible, also from the connections. So if you have a dual setup inside, you don't want to have two power cables and two ethernet cables running in and have the whole look bogged up because of that.

So we've been tinkering about with different setups to reduce that down to one cable. And that's been pretty interesting there. Yeah, but some of it just front-runed us on that one, particularly you.

Because the idea, I don't have the idea, like a week ago, when I was not even aware that you could power raspies with just by the LAN cable or by the ethernet cable. And it's a great idea.

And he managed to pull it off just a few days after Samurai came out. Ah, yes, of course, because they've got their sort of single block, yeah, yeah, it's lovely. It's really lovely. I do imagine that what you guys are thinking about is going to be quite different, though.

And I just think that the more of these quality products, the more things with a beautiful finish, the more someone can be really proud of the hardware and want to touch it, want to use it, want people to see it.

And all of this stuff helps to onboard new people, because when people see something that's really fucking cool, they'll ask the question. They're like, wow, what's this thing? And then you can say, well, it's such a good foot in the door, isn't it?

Unbelievable. Honestly, since I had the first treatment done, and the first one was really rude, I would say, because it was all from scrap metal and stuff. But I polished it up in the end.

And it looked like something. And I just put it on my desk. And when I have a lot of paper lying around and stuff, I put the treatment on top of it. And I honestly can't even tell you how much people I onboard it since.

It's been like the last two or three years I maybe talked to 10 people about Bitcoin. And since the treatment is on my desk, I surely pinched 15 people this summer alone. Oh, really? Yeah, starting off with this event, because exactly in the way that you mentioned it, people come in and say, oh, what is that?

And they take it into the hand, and they play around with it. They start to get really interested, and then you say, you can secure your Bitcoin with that. What? I thought Bitcoin is digital.

Yeah, we start from there. What's your shell? How do you hit people when you sort of got them on the hook? Are you going with the finance side? Are you going with the philosophy side of things?

Are you going with the freedom side? Or are you just bashing them over the head with a secret until they buy some sat? So, yes, I'm also the freedom and philosophy side, because myself, I'm not in much into economics.

Of course, I'm catching up with the Austrian side of economics, because I believe everybody can see the sense in that. But as I could never see any logic in the legacy system, I never was into economy.

I always focused on educating myself and doing stuff around my friends, my peers, my family. I was more the barter guy than the economist. So that's still true today. And was there something specific that caught your attention with Bitcoin and really pulled you down the rabbit hole on this sort of more philosophical side and freedom side?

Do you remember a point where it clicked for you? Because for most people, it is the finance. I say for most people, certainly when I started getting involved, it was like, I want to get rich.

This seems like a good idea. It seems to be going up, let's jump in. But it's quite rare that people do come in straight from the freedom side. So can you remember what it was? To be actually completely honest with you, I came to Bitcoin a few years ago.

That was really a few years ago. Bitcoin was quite cheap back then. I just didn't get the whole point of it. I'm just so yeah, for the internet money, trading on Silk Road. Okay, but as I was never into economy, I really didn't get it and didn't bother about it.

And later on, my brother got into Bitcoin, but he always had the economy side and told me, yeah, I followed this guy and he, what he says, and those were all economists and trading specialists.

And I don't know. So he couldn't attract me with that in the beginning. And one day, I remember I just told him to leave me alone. I don't bug her anymore. And honestly, Max, it's been like two or three years to this conversation with my brother.

And one day I just said, yeah, leave me alone. And he said, if you're not interested in two months, because honestly, for me, I didn't come into Bitcoin also not in the end because of the money.

Because I really don't believe in money. I believe in people, I believe in barter, I believe. And good things around me. But obviously, back then when I had this view, I did not know anything about money.

So it's easy to say that. Yes, and actually it was then when my brother said, yeah, but especially if you're not interested in two months, you've got to have a look at Bitcoin. And then there was corona time.

So I believe it was at the beginning of last year, I started to look deeper into it. And yeah, it didn't take long to go all in and it sucked me up for ever since. - It's interesting for someone who doesn't care about or believe in the use of money to then fall down the rabbit hole.

I wonder like, has it changed your view of things? - Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely sorry for interrupting you, but maybe I didn't get to my point across because what I actually wanted to say is I did not believe in money back then because I just had the intrinsic feeling that the system is flawed.

It's flawed in every corona and everything is flawed. Everyone is lying and I don't know. So I didn't want, even want to bother with it. And later on when I really understood that Bitcoin is a perspective for the future, the way that humanity can go and have a good money, and that money that can be used in a good way

and the way that money is intended to be used as medium of exchange, as a store of value, which what you can't do with fiat currencies and stuff. So when I got the hang of all that, obviously then I also got interested into economics, but still today it's not my main focus.

- One thing that it does do, which excites me is it allows these sort of connections to happen, the fact that you've reached out to me today and said, oh, do you mind if Antimas joins? And I was like, yeah, of course, get him on.

I didn't even know that you two knew each other or working together or I didn't know any of this. What sound money seems to be allowing is people to really think long-term and to build deep, meaningful connections.

And because you're aligned in so many aspects of life and with a common goal, it means that there's a certain element of trust and understanding that's pre-built, it's already there. And so it allows these amazing collaborations that would otherwise not happen.

And if they did happen, it wouldn't be to the same standard. And so that's something that really particularly excites me. And I am starting to see more and more real collaborations on the sort of pleb level, whereas when I'd sort of first got involved, you had your big companies and big exchanges and then you had everyone else.

And now it seems that like this is happening more and more and it's every few weeks, I come across something and I go, wow, that's fucking incredible. It's not every day, it's every few weeks, but it's certainly more than I see in Fiat Clown World and these connections last.

And that's really special. You get real friendships out of it. - Definitely. I believe it's down to the fact that you share the same values. 'Cause you see, I've been going to church all my life regularly, at least until not in the last 10 years, but until I was 20 or 30 years old,

I really went to church every week, like, one or two times. And it's the same thing there. When you got a community where you share the same values and you can, you know that you can speak freely and you get the honest answers.

And I just experienced it with the Bitcoin, it's the same. I'm more foolish on Bitcoin than I am on Bitcoin actually. - That's actually really nice. I like just interacting with Nick has been, it's been fascinating to see also just like the level of trust, like how quickly that's just built up

without ever having seen each other, like we hardly know any background on each other. But just from the first moment, we, yeah, you kind of know that you're on the same wavelength and that we're like moving towards the same goal.

And especially, I've had like a few, like small startup experiences. And it's always been pretty difficult, especially with like aligning values and like economic goals. And this has been really great.

Just like we just, we just want to build something and like Nick started off with a great idea in a hit home with so many people. And now just building on that and building for other people who can use it and you want to use it and not striving to make tons of money.

You know, that's not the intention. The goal here, it's just like a, just having it sustained and meeting new people, building out a network and providing things that people would just enjoy and like for a long time.

- Amen. - And is that part of the reason why this is open sourced? Like I'm pretty sure when I listen, it's been a while since I listened to the interview you did with MTC for 21ism, but I'm fairly sure you'd mentioned that it was open source so people could build these themselves.

Is that still the case? - Yeah, yeah, 100%. That was the original intention after behind the whole project was just to get the design open sourced, yeah. But then I realized that it was quite hard to get a constant quality in punches, in washers, in all the either parts and stuff.

So yeah, I figured out maybe it was, it would be easier to make one for him and make one for him and yeah. A lot of people just asked me. I thought I would give something back because I was asking myself for a long time, what can I give back people that took so much value from them?

And also just the spoken things that you take value out. Imagine the first guy telling me to go into Bitcoin. I think in my whole stack and pencil. So yeah, you can give back something. And I don't want to take out any money.

So if I earn like, I don't know, thousands of satoshis on one statement, I think that's fine in 10 years, it's gonna be a good amount of money. - That's very true, that's very true. And I'm very happy to see that you are open sourcing it.

I think you're absolutely right. I think the average person who tries to build one of these themselves will end up spending more money than they would with you and it will be a worse product for most people.

But the fact that it's an option shows that you're sticking with that open source ethos, which is the foundation of everything that we're doing here. And you are giving back, and you're giving back whether someone chooses to do it through doing it themselves, or whether they buy from you

because you're actually allowing someone to have something that's both beautiful and functional. And that's really special. And I think that it's this journey that everyone goes through. Everyone in Bitcoin gets to a point where you go, right.

I'm pretty sure I'm right here. This is almost certainly gonna change the world. And even if somehow it fails, I'm gonna do everything I can to make sure that it survives and that it works because this is incredibly important.

What can I do? You know, this is where Antimus has jumped in and been helping Bitcoin Q&A really a lot and helping me with my show. And that was something that was very impressive for me when I first started speaking to him.

I was like, well, why are you doing it? I wanted to give back. And that is the sort of mark of a solid Bitcoiner and obviously that's something you're doing yourself as well because that's what separates us from the fiat world.

You don't see this. You don't see anyone in fiat world generally just go, right, how can I help people? How can I give back? It's just more and more and more take, take, take. And we need to get away from that.

Could not put it any better. I'm sure you could. Oh, I'm sure I'm sure you could. (all laughing) I'm sure I'm not an English. (all laughing) It's certainly better than my German. You guys have got an amazing scene out there.

I speak to a lot of incredible Bitcoiners from Germany. What is it about Germans that seem to get Bitcoin? Is it that you guys are very precise and your engineering is the best in the world and you like to have things done properly and therefore you understand Bitcoin or what is it?

I don't know, Antimals may be correct me if I get it wrong, but I believe it's down to the fact that Germans are traditionally savers. They are used to save their money and I believe after some years when you recognize that your money is not worth anything anymore.

I see that from my father-in-law and I tried to pitch him hard the last time, but he's like a dry bomb and it's really, it's hard. (all laughing) But he also told me, "Tell me, what's wrong?"

And I told him and he does not believe me yet, but I believe it will come. He's got the best incentives to understand it. He shot before his retirement. He saved all his life and he's got a nice stock on a fiat paper that's matching away from it.

(all laughing) - Yeah, I think that's definitely correct that there is like a very strong mentality of saving here, but also a very strong, like investing, speculating, stock market, that is something that is very, it's not like the whole culture around that is very negative in Germany actually.

- Totally. - Yeah, the ratio of people who actually are active in the stock market is very low because it's seen as something that is not good for you, like speculating, but like gambling.

So a lot of people are still stuck in like the 70s and 80s when he had like close to double digit returns on your savings account. And that, they've kind of missed the boat on that. So a lot of people are like in gold, but yeah, otherwise just keeping their money on their savings account.

But the actual, but the mentality of around saving is actually still very strong. So I think that is true that a lot of people gravitate towards this idea of hard money and like long-term saving.

And I think there's just that barrier of coming to that conclusion that Bitcoin is that and not just a new like volatile, speculative internet money that's boiling the oceans, you have to get past that to come to the conclusion that there's actually hard money

and then asset for the ages. And I think once people do get to that, they are very receptive of it here. It's actually the opposite to what you initially think when you come in. You think highly speculative, high risk, just here to make some money.

And then it ends up that actually, it's about as low risk as you can get. It's not speculation, it's maths. And all the culture around it is the complete opposite of people who just wanna make money quickly.

You get that in the Bitcoin casinos, you get that everywhere else for the people who truly understand this are thinking in decades and generations, not days and weeks. It's something really special to be around because it means that real work can be done.

Real change can be made. And you just don't get that when you're thinking short term and yeah, you don't get these connections when you're thinking short term, but it's so hard to actually express this to people.

And so maybe by building beautiful, usable, functional node cases and these segments and everything else, it does convey to people that actually, this is the culture. It actually says it when you have that in your hand.

- Exactly, that's exactly what I see with it. Because it doesn't matter where you go and what you buy, everything is rubbish. And when you get something into your hand and you feel, and you get to know the price and you think, well, okay, it's a nice piece of kit.

What is this for? And then you're here for Bitcoin, I believe that's a point where a lot of people started to think, at least those with shoo whom I spoke when they saw the segment on my desk.

And this, yeah, it looks like really that's going love into this and there's some meaning, you know, it's not just the quick buck and that's, so they start to get interested and want to know more.

And for me, it's been that. (laughing) - And so outside of Bitcoin, are you working with, you know, in similar industry or what is it that you're doing? And is it something that you're looking to come across and do more full time if you get the opportunity?

- Not too sure about that. Well, it is similar to what I do for my day-to-day job, actually, yes, but I'm not a mechanic as such anymore. Again, in some middle management position. But I really love going to the workshop and working with my hands, that's my passion.

So yes, after maybe a few more months or a few more years, I definitely wanted to start looking into building something for myself, yeah? And maybe with Antimos, also my brother and definitely, same as you are always talking with your guests about the citadel stuff.

That's a thought that is growing in my mind for the last 12 months or so. Actually, I always had those thoughts before Bitcoin, even me and my wife, we always said, like when we are like 50 or 55, we're definitely going to stop to work.

We're going to find ourselves a nice place to stay with and find some people to peer with and live the good life, not the easy one. (laughing) - That's a good way of putting it. It is a better life, that's for sure.

It's just really fucking hard to get there in the first place, so it feels stacked against you. It's not in the incentive of the people controlling these systems to allow people to exit because you want to get every single drop of blood out of them.

You want to take their last breath before they drop. And it's a waste of resources is how they'll look at it. It's like, you know, if someone's dropping out of 50 and you don't squeeze another 30 years of hard slop and work out, then that's not very efficient.

But what we're doing is we're finding a way to exactly fuck them, exactly fuck them. It's disgraceful. And, you know, we are now in a position where we can say, fuck them, we can say that's it now.

We're not, we're not dealing with your shit anymore. We're going to build this parallel society. We're going to build Mestadels. We're going to work together. We're going to make beautiful stuff.

And you can't have it. It's the other thing. Don't be coming to me with your fear and thinking you can buy what we're building. You can't... I hope Ben got about that. This is for us. Yes, that was a good one.

That got a good response. I hope it gets people thinking. I hope it gets people considering that there is more to life than just stacking. Yeah, definitely. Because ever since I left school for the last, I don't know, 25 years or so, I always was learning something, falling down a different rabbit hole, one after the other.

So before Bitcoin, I was not bored. Never. It's very precious for me to be as self-sufficient as possible. So I did a lot of stock breathing. I learned how to slaughter, how to process me, how to conserve it.

I had a fish farm with my father-in-law. I'm making my own soaps. I learned about herbs and plants, the medicinal and the nutritional facts about them. And I put a lot of effort and also money and time into education and also into infrastructure about around those things.

But I see this all as a preparation for my citadides. - That's interesting that you were doing that before. So can you talk to me about that kind of side? It sounds like you've got all the skills there to start working on a citadel or a citadel.

- I think so, yes. Actually, yeah, I like to talk about that because as I said, I was always sure that the legacy system is flawed and that I don't want to participate in that. And I had a co-worker when I was really young.

I looked up to him because he had a nice house outside of a village in the woods. There was nothing around that. And he had a high level of self-sustainability but he still liked to come to work.

And I looked up to him and I think I took that as a goal for myself and ever since was working on progressing there because I knew money in the bank did not too good do anything good for me.

So I just spent that on education and on stuff. I studied a couple of different things. I also did some pedagogy. I don't know how would you say that and to miss pedagogy, pedagogy, yes. - I'm gonna sound like a fucking idiot here.

What is that? - Like how to bring... - It's like the education for that. The upbringing and education of kids in school, so on. Okay. - Yeah, because I was always dreaming about actually having, when I have my sit-of-the-light, I definitely want to have a nice workshop in there.

And that was the plan before Bitcoin. To have a farm and have a workshop in their way, I can take like disabled or hard to educate and hard to raise children or drug addictives. I don't know, any kind of those lost souls that need a place.

- There's a lot of them out there. It's amazing what can be done with someone who to most people seems like they're a lost cause, to most people, some of these people, you're just, they fall by the wayside, they are the lost.

They get taken under their wing by somebody who cares and who can teach them, especially teaching to build something with your hands and where you actually see a finished product. So when you finish the day, they can see, I've built this, I've done that, I've made something better.

And you know, when you've done that, you feel really fucking good and it can be something quite simple. But as simple as, you mow your lawn and it looks really good and you go, ah, I've done that and you sleep better that night because you go, I've done something worthwhile.

And I think that a lot of these people who don't do so well in society, it comes down to the education and they start to believe, they start to get into the cycle where they think, I'm not clever, I'm not good at doing these tests, I'm worthless.

- You're gonna push into that believing that, aren't you? - And it doesn't take long for them to work with someone, you know, and change those views and go, well, hold on. No, I'm not an idiot, no, I'm not worthless.

I just wasn't being taught correctly and these people can really thrive. So it's cool to hear that you're thinking along those lines and, you know, like you said, as the price of Bitcoin continues to pump, which it will do, I'm very confident on that, some of us will have the ability to help people like that

and what an amazing way to spend your life. - Yeah, that's my thorough beliefs because to be honest, I also, I see myself as have been kind of a lost soul myself. When I was a teenager and early on, I was pretty much a rebel.

My parents had hard times with me and my brother, but we got still grip. And yeah, also just because of looking up to the right people. So some people, yeah, took care of us in the right way.

- Yeah, and that's at the end of the day is, that's kind of like the same idea as what we were talking about before of like learning from people and then giving back to the community. And I mean, that's kind of what we all do throughout our lives as well, you know, and building things that others can profit from in the future.

Especially like in like building communities where you actually produce something when you come together and it doesn't have to be like in one like physical location. It doesn't have to be like from a geography, it doesn't have to be all centralized.

But just like building up these networks and producing something is for so many people, I think today, such a huge benefit. And like really brings out the best in people. And so I'm really excited to see where this all goes.

I mean, I think on the last pod we spoke about that shortly as well, I'm not convinced yet about like these centralized citadels, but especially like these networks of people who are just aligned and like building out those channels.

I think that's something that's hugely beneficial for the years to come. Especially with all their developments that we have, like on the digital front and so on, just having those real life connections and bonds.

I think that'll be really valuable. - I agree. Well, I can't wait to see what you guys do in the coming months. I've had really, really bad audio trying to actually hear sort of half of what you guys have said, but I've got the majority.

So what I would like to do is from what you've said to me, Nick, about some of the other things that you've studied and looked into previously, I think you would be perfect to get on a Mechtdel show at some point, if you'd be up for it.

- Of course, yeah. - Antimas, you know, you're always welcome on this show. You have an open door policy here as well. So we'll get you in as well. And I'd like to keep this conversation going.

I'd like to see what you guys do, what you build and talk more about these Mechtdel's. But yeah, it's been amazing chatting to you, Nick. I love the seed men. I think maybe when we get off this call, I have to put an order in.

Can you guys do a little bit of a shill and let people know where they could buy one of these, see one of these, et cetera? - Definitely, definitely. We got some news on that finally now, I believe.

So maybe Antimas, you want to take it from here. - Yeah, sure. Yeah, so we've got it all set up. We want to, well, the idea was to produce 21 of the segments now for the first limited batch.

They'll be on pre-order as from this Sunday. So we'll be, on Twitter, we'll be posting out the link so you can order directly via our BTC pay server. And then, yeah, we'll be, well, Nick started producing.

So they'll definitely be shipped in the next months. So I mean, obviously Nick's the only one building. So they take time. - Need some time for that. - But they'll definitely be out by Christmas.

That's what we've set. Yeah, and there's a limited edition of 21, as I said. And then there are five additional ones with custom engraving, like the 21ism One posting out photos of examples for that.

So that will be live as from this Sunday. - Awesome, well, I can't wait to get my hands on one. Anyone who hasn't seen one of these, you can go and check out our 21ism feature or go onto the seed mint Twitter.

It's just @seid mint, is it? - @seid mint 21. Seid mint was already taken. - God, I have the 21 in there. - No, it was already taken, and I started out on GitHub with the project for just that, with seed mint and on Twitter later on, I recognized it was taken on, yeah, never mind.

- Well, yeah, go and check it out. - And yeah, thanks again, guys, we really enjoyed chatting and we definitely need to keep this conversation going when I've got slightly better audio, but enjoy the rest of your day and we will catch up soon.

- Thanks, same to you, thank you. - Really appreciate it, cheers. - Have a nice one. - Cheers, guys.